Avengers: The Initiative #6 *Preview*

[DaeJi]

http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=42643

Hehe... actually seeing Gauntlet get his butt kicked brought a smile to me face :). But then Tigra and Hank go and save him, because fans needed even more reasons to not like them :(. Oh well, I guess Marvel can't kill Gauntlet off, since they need characters for people to hate.

[Monty_Cristo]

http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=42643

Hehe... actually seeing Gauntlet get his butt kicked brought a smile to me face :). But then Tigra and Hank go and save him, because fans needed even more reasons to not like them :(. Oh well, I guess Marvel can't kill Gauntlet off, since they need characters for people to hate.

i wish we could post images from that site. i can't see it because of work. :(

[Kefky]

I read this interview with Dan Slott the other day where he said that people were being unfair to Gauntlet! He's such a funny guy, isn't he? Hehehe!

[Young Avenger]

They even put Vance in jail? No former New Warrior is safe.

[Monty_Cristo]

maybe it was Hardball. he's kind of shady.

[Deadpooligan]

I wonder if Taskmaster did it to take his job.

Doesn't seem too out of character for him. I mean, it totally looked professional.

[Cthulhudrew]

The artwork is killing me. I just don't like it. :(

[DaeJi]

The artwork is killing me. I just don't like it. :(

I completely agree; Tigra looks like a teenager there, just breaking into her training bra.

[XPac]

http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=42643

Hehe... actually seeing Gauntlet get his butt kicked brought a smile to me face :). But then Tigra and Hank go and save him, because fans needed even more reasons to not like them :(. Oh well, I guess Marvel can't kill Gauntlet off, since they need characters for people to hate.

Frankly, almost everyone attatched to the Initiative in this book aside from Justice and the recruits (basically everyone behind bars at the moment) is getting on my nerves.

Gauntlet is a jerk. War Machine is a jerk. Gyrich is a jerk. And pill popping Hank who is allowing an evil Nazi scientist to experiment on a boy whose death Hank helped cover up isn't scoring too many brownie points with me either.

So I'm hoping whoever owned Gauntlet just goes ahead and opens up a can of whoop @$$ on everyone not in a cell right now.

[Dusty.]

While I don't think the art is bad, it's definitely not up to the standards that Caselli has set for the series. Glad to see him getting to do his own covers, and I hope he doesn't start needing fill-in artists all the time.

[Capt Hunter]

You know.. when I first saw this series announced, I was less than impressed. I am really warming up to this series. But I think if Marvel makes one more teen book... I am gonna lose it. Its at what, 5 titles now.

New X-Men
Young Avengers
Runaways
New Warriors (haven't read the book... so I am guessing here)
and Avengers: The Initiative

[Fatguy]

I wonder if Taskmaster did it to take his job.

Doesn't seem too out of character for him. I mean, it totally looked professional.

Thats actually a really good idea, that does indeed seem like the kind of thing he would do.

[Nate Palm]

Awww poor Gauntlet got owned. I'll try and shed a single tear into the ground if he dies.

They even put Vance in jail? No former New Warrior is safe.

I wonder what part of the SHRA allows any of them to be imprisoned like that.

[DaeJi]

If Gauntlet dies, I will take a day off work and school, dig him a grave, and then dance on it.

[Orin GA]

It was Armory, she wants her gun back :)

[Karthak]

Good part: Seeing Gauntlet beaten like that brought a smile to my face.

Bad part: What the hell happened to the art? It's way worse than in the previous issues.

[morwen]

You know.. when I first saw this series announced, I was less than impressed. I am really warming up to this series. But I think if Marvel makes one more teen book... I am gonna lose it. Its at what, 5 titles now.

New X-Men
Young Avengers
Runaways
New Warriors (haven't read the book... so I am guessing here)
and Avengers: The Initiative

You forgot Loners. Does that extra one tip the balance? :)

[Monty_Cristo]

I wonder if Taskmaster did it to take his job.

Doesn't seem too out of character for him. I mean, it totally looked professional.

he's in prison.

[Young Avenger]

Bad part: What the hell happened to the art? It's way worse than in the previous issues.

Fill-in artist. I don't think it looks too bad.

[Elegance Liberty]

At least with Peter Gyrich, I find him to be a likeable asshat at times.

Gauntlet's just an ass no matter what.

[Magneto Rocks]

It's funny.

For a moment, I almost felt sorry for him.

[schmevil]

For a moment, I almost felt sorry for him.

Big bunny got to me. I pictured his kid's face when she hears he's in the hospital and that was it, all possible pleasure I could have taken from that scene was gone.

Such a sucker. ;-)

[Magneto Rocks]

Big bunny got to me. I pictured his kid's face when she hears he's in the hospital and that was it, all possible pleasure I could have taken from that scene was gone.

Such a sucker. ;-)

Yeah, that's what got me too. I know it's cliché and exactly what Slott wanted but I do feel worse for the guy knowing what his daughter's reaction would be.

[Monty_Cristo]

At least with Peter Gyrich, I find him to be a likeable asshat at times.

like when?

Gauntlet's just an ass no matter what.

he wasn't an ass to his wife or daughter.

[Shyft]

You know.. when I first saw this series announced, I was less than impressed. I am really warming up to this series. But I think if Marvel makes one more teen book... I am gonna lose it. Its at what, 5 titles now.

New X-Men
Young Avengers
Runaways
New Warriors (haven't read the book... so I am guessing here)
and Avengers: The Initiative

Young Avengers isnt in publication, and New Warriors isn't specifically a "teen" book.

[Shyft]

Yeah, that's what got me too. I know it's cliché and exactly what Slott wanted but I do feel worse for the guy knowing what his daughter's reaction would be.

Then i think of the reaction of the old NW's parents/family if they were to hear the stuff Gauntlet says about them, and i feel better.

[Monty_Cristo]

Then i think of the reaction of the old NW's parents/family if they were to hear the stuff Gauntlet says about them, and i feel better.

you shouldn't. Robbie's mom told him to his face that he was a screw up (frontline). Namorita's "mom" probably doesn't give a crap. Thrash was orphaned. Microbe was an orphan too.

Young Avengers isnt in publication, and New Warriors isn't specifically a "teen" book.

the Initiative isn't specifically a teen book either. Constrictor, Gyrich, Yellowjacket, Tigra, War Machine, Bengal, Gauntlet, Nighthawk, etc are all well out of their teens.

[Shyft]

you shouldn't. Robbie's mom told him to his face that he was a screw up (frontline). Namorita's "mom" probably doesn't give a crap. Thrash was orphaned. Microbe was an orphan too.

There are alot of ex-New Warriors you havent listed there, and the public/Gauntlet dont seem to be discriminating between those at Stamford and others. And i sure other friends and family of the various members hardly enjoy the NW-hate.

[Magneto Rocks]

Meh, I'm not the kind of person who enjoys someone suffering just because of what they did to others. If Gauntlet absolutely HAD to be stopped then fine, but I don't think he deserved what he got and I feel bad for his family. Just because I didn't like what he was doing, doesn't mean I don't feel sympathy for the man. He was just doing the job.

[XPac]

If Gauntlet was a real person, he'd be deserving of my sympathy.

But as a comic book character, he's not worth it. He's a jerk that goes around belittling a group of heroes that have selflessly done a ten times more good for the world than he likely will ever do in 100 life times. He's an ignorant fool who suffered the fate of ignorant fools.

Maybe he'll become a better person for this... or maybe he'll continue to be a jerk going around asking for a much needed butt kicking. I'm fine with it either way.

[Monty_Cristo]

There are alot of ex-New Warriors you havent listed there, and the public/Gauntlet dont seem to be discriminating between those at Stamford and others. And i sure other friends and family of the various members hardly enjoy the NW-hate.

i don't see any of them defending the New Warriors. do you? Nova's parent's surely didn't. they were glad that Rich wasn't part of the moron squad. the fact of the matter is that a lot of the old New Warriors moved on because they had outgrown the team. that reality tv angle was the Warriors' last grab for attention.

If Gauntlet was a real person, he'd be deserving of my sympathy.

But as a comic book character, he's not worth it. He's a jerk that goes around belittling a group of heroes that have selflessly done a ten times more good for the world than he likely will ever do in 100 life times. He's an ignorant fool who suffered the fate of ignorant fools.

Gauntlet's a military man who was serving in the Middle East (doing good for the world) before they brought him in to train a bunch of hotshots. i'd say that they are on the same level; Gauntlet being a little better for not having his name in the paper all the time and not getting to be w/ his family.

[Shyft]

i don't see any of them defending the New Warriors. do you? Nova's parent's surely didn't. they were glad that Rich wasn't part of the moron squad. the fact of the matter is that a lot of the old New Warriors moved on because they had outgrown the team. that reality tv angle was the Warriors' last grab for attention.



Vance certainly doesnt seem to enjoy it, and considering the number of ex-New Warriors family's/friends we havent seen, im willing to be some of them dont like it.

[XPac]

i don't see any of them defending the New Warriors. do you? Nova's parent's surely didn't. they were glad that Rich wasn't part of the moron squad. the fact of the matter is that a lot of the old New Warriors moved on because they had outgrown the team. that reality tv angle was the Warriors' last grab for attention.



Gauntlet's a military man who was serving in the Middle East (doing good for the world) before they brought him in to train a bunch of hotshots. i'd say that they are on the same level; Gauntlet being a little better for not having his name in the paper all the time and not getting to be w/ his family.

Hmmm... a debate on whether the military in real life is doing as much good for the world in the Middle East as the MU heroes are when they on occasion save the world potentially brings a bit too much real life politics into the discussion. So I'll simply agree to disagree.

[Monty_Cristo]

Vance certainly doesnt seem to enjoy it, and considering the number of ex-New Warriors family's/friends we havent seen, im willing to be some of them dont like it.

Vance tried to recruit Nova for the Initiative. he recruited MVP into the Initiative. so his opinion doesn't really count.

[Kefky]

Hmmm... a debate on whether the military in real life is doing as much good for the world in the Middle East as the MU heroes are when they on occasion save the world potentially brings a bit too much real life politics into the discussion. So I'll simply agree to disagree.

The reasons for the military being in the middle east is certainly debatable, but the reasons for Gauntlet being there isn't. He was there taking down villains like Hydra, not Iraqis. And probably helping soldiers who were in a bad situation too. So yea, he was doing good.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the guy as much as everyone else... It's pretty much Slott's fault for writing him as a thing programmed to go around sprouting stupid anti-new warriors crap for five issues instead of something that resembles a human being. He pretty much dug the grave of his own character, even if he doesn't realize it.

[XPac]

The reasons for the military being in the middle east is certainly debatable, but the reasons for Gauntlet being there isn't. He was there taking down villains like Hydra, not Iraqis. And probably helping soldiers who were in a bad situation too. So yea, he was doing good.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the guy as much as everyone else... It's pretty much Slott's fault for writing him as a thing programmed to go around sprouting stupid anti-new warriors crap for five issues instead of something that resembles a human being. He pretty much dug the grave of his own character, even if he doesn't realize it.

Maybe he does realize it... frankly I'm not sure we're suppossed to be feeling bad over the fact that Gauntlet got his butt handed to him.

[DaeJi]

I think the kid and wife were put into the story so that we would feel bad about it; Slott has to know that the fans hate Gauntlet. But now that we know he has a wife and kid and is very loving towards them...


Screw Gauntlet.

[Monty_Cristo]

The reasons for the military being in the middle east is certainly debatable, but the reasons for Gauntlet being there isn't. He was there taking down villains like Hydra, not Iraqis. And probably helping soldiers who were in a bad situation too. So yea, he was doing good.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the guy as much as everyone else... It's pretty much Slott's fault for writing him as a thing programmed to go around sprouting stupid anti-new warriors crap for five issues instead of something that resembles a human being. He pretty much dug the grave of his own character, even if he doesn't realize it.

*thinks back to scene Bendis wrote where Captain America beats Hawkeye up during training*

[Kefky]

Maybe he does realize it... frankly I'm not sure we're suppossed to be feeling bad over the fact that Gauntlet got his butt handed to him.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=127995

I honestly think that the Gauntlet is trying to do the best job he can – he’s breaking the kids down, and that really ticks fans of the kids off. But still – he’s a drill instructor – it’s his job. He’s R. Lee Emery, he’s Louis Gossett Jr., or Michael Ironside in Starship Troopers. He’s the D.I. – you’re supposed to want to smash his face in.

Judging from that interview, it doesn't sound like he understand that most people reading this book want to see people like Rhodey and Gauntlet dead or in jail for life. He thinks he's writing a perfectly balanced book, where everyone's fleshed out well, and has perfectly good reason to do what they're doing.

Either he's just screwing with us and the Initiative is supposed to be a civil war parody, or he just needs to stay away from writing serious books. As far as I'm concerned, this book's too ridiculous and over-the-top to be taken seriously.

[Dark Soul # 7]

That was not the kind of beating I wanted to see the jerk get.

I wanted something more like Justice tossing him around like a ragdoll, showing him what a New Warrior can do.

Still, I don't feel sorry for him. His kid on the other hand.

[PatchMadripoor]

Gauntlet needed a little taste of tough love himself, to remind him what kind of "powers" he was training and belittling when he was talking smack about the New Warriors, and underestimating that it would not bite him in the ass should he let his guard down.

[Kefky]

*thinks back to scene Bendis wrote where Captain America beats Hawkeye up during training*

Since Bendis wrote Cap as a perfectly humanized character for 20 issues of new avengers before showing that scene, your point of view is imbalanced.

Also, Cap wasn't crapping on anybody who didn't deserve to be crapped on in that scene.

[DaeJi]

That was not the kind of beating I wanted to see the jerk get.


I actually want to see Thor tearing his little toy off and beating him with it. Or Nova teaching why it's a mistake to trash on the New Warriors.

[XPac]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=127995



Judging from that interview, it doesn't sound like he understand that most people reading this book want to see people like Rhodey and Gauntlet dead or in jail for life. He thinks he's writing a perfectly balanced book, where everyone's fleshed out well, and has perfectly good reason to do what they're doing.

Either he's just screwing with us and the Initiative is supposed to be a civil war parody, or he just needs to stay away from writing serious books. As far as I'm concerned, this book's too ridiculous and over-the-top to be taken seriously.

I think the line where he says we're suppossed to want to smash his face in kinda tells the tale. We're not supposed to consider him evil incarnate... but he obviously doesnt' expect us to mind to much if someone decides to smash his face in either (which is exactly what happened).

[Monty_Cristo]

I actually want to see Thor tearing his little toy off and beating him with it. Or Nova teaching why it's a mistake to trash on the New Warriors.

thereby proving Gauntlet right.

Since Bendis wrote Cap as a perfectly humanized character for 20 issues of new avengers before showing that scene, your point of view is imbalanced.

Also, Cap wasn't crapping on anybody who didn't deserve to be crapped on in that scene.

he broke his bow and then kicked Hawkeye while he was down on the ground. he crapped all over him. it doesn't matter how Bendis wrote him. i'm talking about Cap playing the roll of drill sergeant. Clint idolizes Cap, despite the treatment he recieved.

Gauntlet needed a little taste of tough love himself, to remind him what kind of "powers" he was training and belittling when he was talking smack about the New Warriors, and underestimating that it would not bite him in the ass should he let his guard down.


if he treated them all like they were special little celebrities, they wouldn't respect him. before you judge him, try to put yourself in his position. how would you treat Hardball to get him in line? how about Komodo? does Spider-man deserve a beatdown for treating her cocky behind like crap?

[DaeJi]

thereby proving Gauntlet right.

.............Wha?

[Monty_Cristo]

.............Wha?

you're advocating Nova beating a guy up because he talked trash. that would be a huge example of immaturity and abuse of power; "might makes right." it's what the Initiative is about stopping.

[DaeJi]

you're advocating Nova beating a guy up because he talked trash. that would be a huge example of immaturity and abuse of power; "might makes right." it's what the Initiative is about stopping.

Gauntlet is tearing down a group of heroes who have a very rich history of doing good work and helping a lot of people so that he can break down a bunch of kids so that they can be turned into superpowered soldiers despite rather or not they want to be there in the first place. He gets no love from me. Besides, guys get into fights over this crap all the time.

[XPac]

you're advocating Nova beating a guy up because he talked trash. that would be a huge example of immaturity and abuse of power; "might makes right." it's what the Initiative is about stopping.

You mean like the way Gauntlet threatened to do when he though Gyrich was talking trash?

Maybe we simply have a case of some student following in Gauntlets example.

[Monty_Cristo]

You mean like the way Gauntlet threatened to do when he though Gyrich was talking trash?

Maybe we simply have a case of some student following in Gauntlets example.


yeah, whatever. get back to me when Gyrich is near-death with "Military" scrawled on his chest.

p.s. i guarantee that Gauntlet wouldn't use a sneak attack.

[XPac]

yeah, whatever. get back to me when Gyrich is near-death with "Military" scrawled on his chest.

p.s. i guarantee that Gauntlet wouldn't use a sneak attack.

Gauntlet threatened Gyrich after Gyrich said something Gauntlet disagreed with ONE time... had Gyrich repeated his comments as often as Gauntlet said his idiotic little speeches, perhaps Gyrich would be in a near-death state. That's certainly what Gauntlet's threat implied. The difference is that Gyrich was smart enough to keep his mouth shut... obviously Gauntlet wasn't quite as wise.

Just my opinion... if Gauntlet actually did decide he was going to take out Gyrich and he wasn't a complete moron, it's very possible he would try to when no one was around to see it. Course, it's also very possible Gauntlet is a moron and wouldn't bother.... I can see it going both ways.

[Will.S]

You mean like the way Gauntlet threatened to do when he though Gyrich was talking trash?

Maybe we simply have a case of some student following in Gauntlets example.
It's not like he actually went through with it though.

I know that Gauntlet talks a lot of crap about the NW but getting beat to near death is going too extreme especially depending on who was giving the beating. He's just doing his job as a superhero version of a drill sergeant so I don't think this type of attack is right. Something more tame I wouldn't mind, like knocking him out with some sort of gas then spray painting the "NW" symbol on his shirt.

As for the art, usually Steve Uy does some nice covers but the art here is way below par compared to even Casseli's. It's too bad but eh, I'll deal.

[XPac]

It's not like he actually went through with it though.

I know that Gauntlet talks a lot of crap about the NW but getting beat to near death is going too extreme especially depending on who was giving the beating. He's just doing his job as a superhero version of a drill sergeant so I don't think this type of attack is right. Something more tame I wouldn't mind, like knocking him out with some sort of gas then spray painting the "NW" symbol on his shirt.

As for the art, usually Steve Uy does some nice covers but the art here is way below par compared to even Casseli's. It's too bad but eh, I'll deal.

Not saying he necessarily should have gotten beaten for it. Just saying it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

But as far as him not beating up Gyrich... again Gyrich only mouthed off one time. By Gauntlets own words, had Gyrich continued it would have gotten ugly. Perhaps had Gauntlet only mouthed off one time like Gyrich, the beating would not have occured.

Either way, I'm not going to buy arguements about the Initiative preventing behavior like this when their main instructor is making threats at the guy running the base.

[hyzmarca]

Beating up Gauntlet is important because of what he represents. It is a demonstration of superiority that is far more powerful than anything else the New Warriors can do. He claims to be superior to them in combat. He claims that he can teach his students to be superior to them in combat. Yet, when it comes time to put his money where his mouth is, he fails miserably.

Gauntlet as a drill instructor badmouthing the New Warriors is equivalent to Ashida Kim (A famous " Real Ninja" for those who don't know) Badmouthing Brazilian Jujitsu and then losing a fight to one of the Gracies.

[Faded]

Steve Uy rocks my socks. I really haven't been feeling Caselli's art. I think the coloring really feets Uy better as well.

[Omega Alpha]

Gauntlet getting his ass kicked would be cool, but nearly getting killed? I think that's too much.

[StoneGold]

Gauntlet as a drill instructor badmouthing the New Warriors is equivalent to Ashida Kim (A famous " Real Ninja" for those who don't know) Badmouthing Brazilian Jujitsu and then losing a fight to one of the Gracies.

Yeah, because getting attacked from behind as he was leaving his family's house, that says a lot about the attacker. This wasn't exactly an honor fight. This was a bushwacking.

Although attacking your DI is a fairly standard literary plot device. At least, it happened with Himmelstoss, and it happened with Hartman. Officer and a Gentleman too, except Lou Gossett Jr kicked the snot out of Richard Gere.

[Monty_Cristo]

Beating up Gauntlet is important because of what he represents. It is a demonstration of superiority that is far more powerful than anything else the New Warriors can do. He claims to be superior to them in combat. He claims that he can teach his students to be superior to them in combat. Yet, when it comes time to put his money where his mouth is, he fails miserably.

Gauntlet as a drill instructor badmouthing the New Warriors is equivalent to Ashida Kim (A famous " Real Ninja" for those who don't know) Badmouthing Brazilian Jujitsu and then losing a fight to one of the Gracies.

your analogy will crumble if it wasn't one of the recruits who beat him up.

Yeah, because getting attacked from behind as he was leaving his family's house, that says a lot about the attacker. This wasn't exactly an honor fight. This was a bushwacking.

which would certainly point away from anyone in that holding cell. even Debrii isn't that much of a coward; i'd hope.

Gauntlet threatened Gyrich after Gyrich said something Gauntlet disagreed with ONE time... had Gyrich repeated his comments as often as Gauntlet said his idiotic little speeches, perhaps Gyrich would be in a near-death state.

that's utterly ridiculous. he has a wife and kid. you think he'd risk that on a little name-calling? he hedged a bet and issued a verbal warning to Gyrich; told him that what he was saying wasn't cool. he knew Gyrich (reknowned for being a big mouthed coward) would back down. and he was man enough to say that to Gyrich. Rage and the other former new warriors just mutter under their breath because they don't have the balls to challenge Gauntlet; openly.

[DaeJi]

You know, if Gauntlet didn't put down the New Warriors so much and Cloud 9 actually wanted to be there (I cannot feel worse for her than I do right now), I don't think he would be getting so much grief. As it stands, he actually did deserve the beating; the rest of the staff also deserve a good beating, even Justice. I can't feel sorry for him, he had it coming, and maybe will learn that it's not just soldiers who are heroes.

[XPac]

that's utterly ridiculous. he has a wife and kid. you think he'd risk that on a little name-calling? he hedged a bet and issued a verbal warning to Gyrich; told him that what he was saying wasn't cool. he knew Gyrich (reknowned for being a big mouthed coward) would back down. and he was man enough to say that to Gyrich. Rage and the other former new warriors just mutter under their breath because they don't have the balls to challenge Gauntlet; openly.

It WOULD be utterly ridiculous for him to do that... no doubt about it. Though it's not the first ridiculous thing he's said or done... and likely won't be the last. That's the tough think about morons... you know they're stupid, but you don't know exactly HOW stupid.

Maybe he was all talk. Or maybe he was willing (and stupid) enough to back up what he said. Gyrich was smart enough to make sure he'd never kind out. Gauntlet wasn't quite as lucky.

[XPac]

You know, if Gauntlet didn't put down the New Warriors so much and Cloud 9 actually wanted to be there (I cannot feel worse for her than I do right now), I don't think he would be getting so much grief. As it stands, he actually did deserve the beating; the rest of the staff also deserve a good beating, even Justice. I can't feel sorry for him, he had it coming, and maybe will learn that it's not just soldiers who are heroes.

Yeah. His comments about the New Warriors aside, I'm not going to waste my time feeling sorry for a jerk that did the things the Initiative staff have done (ie the cover up of MVP's death, the usage of minors and unwilling recruits in battle).

Gauntlet, Gyrich, War Machine... they all reap what they sowed.

[Nate Palm]

Something more tame I wouldn't mind, like knocking him out with some sort of gas then spray painting the "NW" symbol on his shirt.

Honestly ,dude, do you think the New Warriors had anything to do with this attack?

[StoneGold]

the usage of minors

You keep saying that, we go through a whole thing again about how the closest any minor has come to a combat position in the Initiative itself (Stature predated the Initiative) is a hyper-aged alien with no actual ties to humanity who may or may not have been an alternate dimensional version of himself.

[Orin GA]

I wonder the the NW even stands for New Warrirors

[XPac]

You keep saying that, we go through a whole thing again about how the closest any minor has come to a combat position in the Initiative itself (Stature predated the Initiative) is a hyper-aged alien with no actual ties to humanity who may or may not have been an alternate dimensional version of himself.

Yeah, but I keep saying that as far as I know Hulkling is a US citizen and still a minor. Show me where they they revoked his US citizenship (his bio at the marvel website says he's still one for what it's worth) because of his alien heritage and I'll withdraw the point.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I think Gauntlet's thrashing is a great suggestion of the Full Metal Jacket analogue. You know the scene where the cadet wigs out in the wash room. Basically this kid is singled out and picked on all throughout boot camp, he gets his gun and he snaps. (see the movie, if you haven't already I didn't spoil it proper.)Regular dopey kids might take sh!t from a drill Sergent, but most of the Initiative recruits have taken on far more serious threats than Gauntlet. They're only going to allow themselves to be pushed but so much before they push back.
Not saying beating a man to an inch of his life is justified, but its a dramatic way to show the troops have reached their breaking point.

As for the art, it reminds me of the Akira anime, and I <3 that flick, it's a bit cartoony here, but it's well done and suits most of the characters. (I do agree Tigra is a little young looking, but I dig the overall feel.)

[Pyro]

I just want to say...

Debrii!!!

w00t!

[Flâneur]

Honestly ,dude, do you think the New Warriors had anything to do with this attack?
A recruit might simply have thought to brand him as something 'less'; remember that New Warrior is a slur to the recruits so it would be the same as spraying nigger, nip, fag, commie etc. on someone.

[Faded]

I hope its the new New Warriors. A rivalry would do good for both books IMO.

I just want to say...

Debrii!!!

w00t!

Right?! I only read one issue that my ex had and I really dug her. Its cool to see her back.

A recruit might simply have thought to brand him as something 'less'; remember that New Warrior is a slur to the recruits so it would be the same as spraying nigger, nip, fag, commie etc. on someone.

What's 'nip'?

[Flâneur]

What's 'nip'?
It's a slur against japanese - it was an abbreviation of 'nipponese' and used in videos by the coalition to incite hatred against the japanese in WWII, depending on the area it still is remembered and used as a racial slur. It isn't so widely known because it isn't as highly used in areas in which there are a high concentration of western media (the UK and US)

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Well, I like Gauntlet. I get the resentment over his use of 'New Warriors', but at the end of the day that's not enough to outweigh the positives. He's a drill sergeant, he's doing his job - the kids should hate his guts 24/7. Right up until the point where they become soldiers, and realise why he does what he does.

(Not saying that they have to become soldiers, or that that's the only 'right' option - I'm hoping to see a more varied approach developing at the Initiative in general, as the issues go on. But right now they're just starting up, and they're going with what they know: take in civvies, turn out soldiers. Read 'Starship Troopers', and I think you'll get Gauntlet more.)

Can't say I like the art though. I'm no artist myself, nor do I know the ins and outs of the process much, so take my opinion as that of a layman, but... heck, it looks like a run-of-the-mill webcomic. The story's still there, as strong as ever - I can tell that just from the preview pages - but Dan Slott deserves better. And 'style' be damned, that's not what Gauntlet's mecha-glove looks like - we've had enough issues of A:tI, and of Southpaw's glove in She-Hulk, to have established a look for it, and that ain't it. Regardless of what artists might want to do, the reality is that ongoing comics have to have some defined standards of appearance - otherwise you'd get people coming onto Thor and drawing Mjolnir as a claw hammer because 'it's their style'. Sorry if it seems a bit petty, but that bugged the hell out of me every panel it was in.

[XPac]

Well, I like Gauntlet. I get the resentment over his use of 'New Warriors', but at the end of the day that's not enough to outweigh the positives. He's a drill sergeant, he's doing his job - the kids should hate his guts 24/7. Right up until the point where they become soldiers, and realise why he does what he does.



But you have to remember... in addition to his idiotic comments about the New Warriors, there's also a resentment towards the corruption in general within the Initiative that's being tacted onto Gauntlet.

The cover up of MVP's death, forcing Cloud 9 into combat, etc etc. Gauntlet is a part of that machine which many fans feel is acting wrongly. If it's his job to so things like that, then there's something wrong with the job and it no longer really becomes any kind of defense.

[schmevil]

I think Gauntlet's thrashing is a great suggestion of the Full Metal Jacket analogue. You know the scene where the cadet wigs out in the wash room. Basically this kid is singled out and picked on all throughout boot camp, he gets his gun and he snaps. (see the movie, if you haven't already I didn't spoil it proper.)Regular dopey kids might take sh!t from a drill Sergent, but most of the Initiative recruits have taken on far more serious threats than Gauntlet. They're only going to allow themselves to be pushed but so much before they push back.
Not saying beating a man to an inch of his life is justified, but its a dramatic way to show the troops have reached their breaking point.

I also thought of Full Metal Jacket in reference to this scene, though it has to be said that the tone is vastly different (thank god, because A:I would be a very different book otherwise). I'm undecided as to whether it'll turn out to be one of the recruits or something even more serious. Although, even if the attacker was someone from outside of the Initiative, the incident could still serve as the breaking point for some of the recruits: after everything they've been through, now they're in lockup?

There's a lot of potential in this storyline.

And the Full Metal Jacket-ness of the scene is an interesting reference to another American war gone bad (so far we've got Gulf War 1 and the sequel, Vietnam, Civil War and the civil war, the Korean war and McCarthyism, WWH... omg Marvel, seriously).

[DaeJi]

Well, I like Gauntlet. I get the resentment over his use of 'New Warriors', but at the end of the day that's not enough to outweigh the positives. He's a drill sergeant, he's doing his job - the kids should hate his guts 24/7. Right up until the point where they become soldiers, and realise why he does what he does.


Again, I think a lot of the hatred for Gauntlet comes from Cloud 9. All she wants to do is fly, and seems to be very good at it. She doesn't want to be there, doesn't want to be a hero, doesn't want to learn how to kill people. But unfortunately for her, she has powers so she has to learn to be a "hero." If every character actually wanted to be there and wanted to learn, I wouldn't hate him as much.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

But you have to remember... in addition to his idiotic comments about the New Warriors, there's also a resentment towards the corruption in general within the Initiative that's being tacted onto Gauntlet.
Fair point, but so far I don't think it's a bad thing that he's toed the company line to this point. He's a soldier - it's not his job to set policy. Gyrich and Yellowjacket and War Machine decides how the Initiative operates - Gauntlet takes the raw recruits they give him, and either turns them into good soldiers, or washes them out. That's his job.

Now granted, as a soldier, if he were to be given an order he believed was wrong - morally or legally wrong - it would be his duty to refuse it. But that's not something that's easy for a soldier, nor should it be portrayed as easy - and it should be difficult, because a soldier often doesn't have the facts that his/her commander has, and what looks like a wrong order may not be so. It's not a line you cross easily or casually. Gauntlet's actions so far put him in a position I can get along with - he makes no secret of his dislike for Gyrich, as a person and the decisions he's made, but so far Gyrich et al haven't, to his knowledge, crossed the line.

Again, I think a lot of the hatred for Gauntlet comes from Cloud 9. All she wants to do is fly, and seems to be very good at it. She doesn't want to be there, doesn't want to be a hero, doesn't want to learn how to kill people. But unfortunately for her, she has powers so she has to learn to be a "hero." If every character actually wanted to be there and wanted to learn, I wouldn't hate him as much.
I don't see it that way - and I adore Cloud 9, so it's not from lack of sympathy there. But again, this is not Gauntlet's job. Cloud 9 was given the choice by War Machine: if you want to fly, you need a license. She didn't have to join up, she could have chosen not to fly. A hard choice given how much she obviously loves flying, but it was hers to make nonetheless. Sure, she was naive about what joining the Initiative meant, and she's having a rough time adjusting - and perhaps in the end she never will, and she'll decide to give up flight rather than be a soldier. That's an option - but it's not Gauntlet's job to guide her through that. It's up to whoever recruited her (War Machine?) and whoever set the recruitment standards (Gyrich?) to make sure she understands what she's getting in for - if she truly didn't, that's their fault, not Gauntlet's. And it's up to Justice, one assumes, to help guide her through the difficulty she's having now that she has joined up - if she needs help from a senior to make the proper choice, he's the one who should be providing it, not Gauntlet.

As long as Cloud 9 turns up on the parade ground in the morning, Gauntlet's job is to train her to be a soldier. To the best of his knowledge, that's what will best keep her alive, and keep her comrades alive, as long as she's part of the Initiative. And I think, given that, he's doing right by her. That scene in issue #2, where she blows up the Hydra jet, and realises she killed the pilot, that was a crystallising scene for the instructor/student relationship between those two: Gauntlet obviously understands what she's going through, and he doesn't make any effort to sugar-coat the reality of what's going on. He tells it to her straight - and not unsympathetically, as I read it. It's up to her, not him, to decide whether she can do this.

Now obviously we're not dealing with an idealised military - there's corruption up top, and recruits signing up who don't understand what they're doing, and the whole deal (just like in real life). And nor is Gauntlet perfect - perhaps he could be more aware of the troubles above him in the higher ranks, and more aware of the fact that perhaps some of the recruits would be happier as civilians, and yes, he's being a jerk about the New Warriors. But no-one's perfect; as I see it, Gauntlet's basically a decent guy doing his best for the recruits - of all the instructors on base, he's the one I trust the most to do right by them (I'm hazy on Justice, I need more time and material to figure him out).

[XPac]

Fair point, but so far I don't think it's a bad thing that he's toed the company line to this point. He's a soldier - it's not his job to set policy. Gyrich and Yellowjacket and War Machine decides how the Initiative operates - Gauntlet takes the raw recruits they give him, and either turns them into good soldiers, or washes them out. That's his job.

Now granted, as a soldier, if he were to be given an order he believed was wrong - morally or legally wrong - it would be his duty to refuse it. But that's not something that's easy for a soldier, nor should it be portrayed as easy - and it should be difficult, because a soldier often doesn't have the facts that his/her commander has, and what looks like a wrong order may not be so. It's not a line you cross easily or casually. Gauntlet's actions so far put him in a position I can get along with - he makes no secret of his dislike for Gyrich, as a person and the decisions he's made, but so far Gyrich et al haven't, to his knowledge, crossed the line.


I don't see it that way - and I adore Cloud 9, so it's not from lack of sympathy there. But again, this is not Gauntlet's job. Cloud 9 was given the choice by War Machine: if you want to fly, you need a license. She didn't have to join up, she could have chosen not to fly. A hard choice given how much she obviously loves flying, but it was hers to make nonetheless. Sure, she was naive about what joining the Initiative meant, and she's having a rough time adjusting - and perhaps in the end she never will, and she'll decide to give up flight rather than be a soldier. That's an option - but it's not Gauntlet's job to guide her through that. It's up to whoever recruited her (War Machine?) and whoever set the recruitment standards (Gyrich?) to make sure she understands what she's getting in for - if she truly didn't, that's their fault, not Gauntlet's. And it's up to Justice, one assumes, to help guide her through the difficulty she's having now that she has joined up - if she needs help from a senior to make the proper choice, he's the one who should be providing it, not Gauntlet.

As long as Cloud 9 turns up on the parade ground in the morning, Gauntlet's job is to train her to be a soldier. To the best of his knowledge, that's what will best keep her alive, and keep her comrades alive, as long as she's part of the Initiative. And I think, given that, he's doing right by her. That scene in issue #2, where she blows up the Hydra jet, and realises she killed the pilot, that was a crystallising scene for the instructor/student relationship between those two: Gauntlet obviously understands what she's going through, and he doesn't make any effort to sugar-coat the reality of what's going on. He tells it to her straight - and not unsympathetically, as I read it. It's up to her, not him, to decide whether she can do this.

Now obviously we're not dealing with an idealised military - there's corruption up top, and recruits signing up who don't understand what they're doing, and the whole deal (just like in real life). And nor is Gauntlet perfect - perhaps he could be more aware of the troubles above him in the higher ranks, and more aware of the fact that perhaps some of the recruits would be happier as civilians, and yes, he's being a jerk about the New Warriors. But no-one's perfect; as I see it, Gauntlet's basically a decent guy doing his best for the recruits - of all the instructors on base, he's the one I trust the most to do right by them (I'm hazy on Justice, I need more time and material to figure him out).

It's Gauntlet's job to train her... but is it Gauntlet's job to order her into combat? That's what him and War Machine did.

Is the Initiative there to just train these people, or are they basically drafted into service for the US military? If it's the later, then Gauntlet just did his job... though the problem is now a tad larger than Gauntlet just being a jerk.

[StoneGold]

Yeah, but I keep saying that as far as I know Hulkling is a US citizen and still a minor. Show me where they they revoked his US citizenship (his bio at the marvel website says he's still one for what it's worth) because of his alien heritage and I'll withdraw the point.

Given that he is an illegal alien with forged citizenship papers, and you figure the fact that he is a Kree/Skrull hybrid would have to come up in the physical (and the fact that Iron Man already knows about it), it would appear that some kind of amnesty deal has been cut to grant him some kind of citizenship status. Honestly, the bios at the Marvel website are worth as much as Wikipedia, given their reader submitted status. But he is an alien. And the feds know he is an alien. And the fact that the feds know he is an alien, who is in high school despite being the age for an elementary school student at best, might put a special situation on the age thing.

In any case, Teddy was 16 in Young Avengers, right? So in theory, he could be 17 now, correct? Especially since he hasn't been seen in a regular comic for a while, and characters only really age off panel. And you can join the military at 17, with parental consent. Given Teddy's guardian was a dead Skrull, I'm not sure what that does to parental consent exactly. But it should make him legal for active combat duty.

At the very least, you have to admit, there is a ton of wiggle room regarding that one. I will admit, there is the possibility that he could still be considered a legal minor, but it's basically the question of are you willing to allow that things happen off-panel. Because if the one minor you can find is a Kree/Skrull hybrid with forged citizenship documents who might actually only be a couple years old... if he is the only one you can find, the bizarre circumstances of his existence would seem to point to there being some other explanation.

[Monty_Cristo]

It's Gauntlet's job to train her... but is it Gauntlet's job to order her into combat? That's what him and War Machine did.

Is the Initiative there to just train these people, or are they basically drafted into service for the US military?

asking honestly, is there a military you can sign up for that allows you to train but not serve?

[DaeJi]

The whole thing with Cloud 9, is that she knows how to fly. And that's all she wanted to do. Why does she need to train to be a superhero if she already knows how to use her powers? That's the biggest problem with the SHRA, there's just one license, when there should be a "use powers license" and "hero" license.

[StoneGold]

The whole thing with Cloud 9, is that she knows how to fly. And that's all she wanted to do. Why does she need to train to be a superhero if she already knows how to use her powers? That's the biggest problem with the SHRA, there's just one license, when there should be a "use powers license" and "hero" license.

No, she already can fly. That's different knowing how to fly. You can drive as soon as you can reach the pedals. That doesn't mean you know how to drive without accidentally killing everyone.


Although I'm starting to wonder if C9 didn't just sign up for the wrong thing. Because otherwise, there's no reason for the whole "recruitment" bit from the first issue. It would be just mandatory training. I'm really starting to wonder if the Initiative isn't something like AT&T's $10 DSL that the government is forcing them to have. Because it exists, but they kind of hide how to sign up for it. I'm starting to think that if you actually bothered to read your enlistment papers, there's probably another, non-combat oriented track you can take. In part because there are a good number of characters that probably should be involved in the training who aren't. But I'm starting to get the feeling that C9 just sort of signed her papers without really reading over them. Because that seems like the kind of thing she would do.



Realize this is all just speculation. There's a certain level of support in the text for this, but it hasn't been stated completely one way or the other. But again, it would explain why the various characters were recruited, as opposed to assigned.

[steve2275]

The artwork is killing me. I just don't like it. :(
yeah well
i do