World War Hulk #4 Discussion and Spoilers

[Magneto Rocks]

Since there doesn't seem to be one so far...

Hulk and Zztrange fight for a bit and their fight takes them out of the arena. Zztrange goes crazy and knocks down a building on some of Hulk's supporters, Hulk saves them. Zztrange realises he's gone mad with power and can't control the demon (To the shock and amazement of readers everywhere) and then Hulk job- I'm sorry, beats him down.

At Sentry's home in Vermont, the President and government try to convince him to come out for the sixty-fourth time, and we now see what his conversation with Tony was- basically, Tony told him he had to fight Hulk, with the lives of billions at stake.

THe Illuminati are taken into the great arena. There, people who hate the heroes, including Tom Foster, read out their grievances against them. They are told to battle a giant monster, which they do- Black Bolt takes it down. Then they fight each other, Bolt vs Strange, Reed vs Tony. Tony uses extremis to hack into the guards, but is stopped by Elloe who makes him attack Reed. Reed takes down Tony and raises a weapon to potentially kill him. The decision rests with Hulk. Elsewhere, Sentry FINALLY decides to spring into action.

Hulk pauses. The world waits.

Hulk sticks his thumb down- he wants Tony dead.
Sentry zips towards the Arena- "It's time to play God"

"To be continued..."

My personal feelings can be summed up in a resounding "Meh". Nowhere near as good as 1, a bit behind 3, roughly on par with issue 2. The Zztrange fight came to nothing at all. Seriously, he may as well have not used Zom. We knew he had to lose, but even though Strange is effectively jobbed, it happened in an incredibly predictable, cliché way. Wow, Zztrange loses control and endangers people who Hulk saves? How shocking. Might have had more impact if Hulk had saved the Illuminati or someone else, rather than just the few who SUPPORTED him. But I'm sure the fact that he didn't let people on his side die conclusively proves he's a hero, or something.

After yet MORE "Sentry, please?" "No" "PLLLEAASE?" "No" "PLEEEASE?" "No" "PRETTY PLEASE?" nonsense, we're back to the arena. As expected, they must fight, and the fight is fairly well done- I'm glad Pak remembered to use Tony's extremis even if the reason for it not working was a bit stupid.

Pak then stole my ending.

No, that's a joke but I swear to God I predicted that *EXACT* ending a month or so ago. Literally, that exact ending. Not just Sentry popping up, but Hulk having to decide and then giving a "Thumbs down", then Sentry flying there. Guess Cho was wrong after all...

Anyway... discuss!

[seekquaze]

I tried posting this earlier, but for some reason my log in suddenly no longer had me logged in.

Anyway, here are my thoughts.

I had a comic shop near by and dropped off to review the issue.

Overall I am disappointed.

The Strange/Hulk fight was too short and a let down. One of the biggest complaints against the Hulk is in most of his fights his opponent is dumbed down to fight the Hulk's way. That is what happened here.

Strange w/Zom easily defeats the other Warbound while Hirom comments how Strange can barely control Zom. We don't know how much power Strange is channeling at the moment. When then get a few pages of Strange literally manhandling the Hulk by kicking him around and blowing holes through his chest.

Of course, some people (who are there to see the Hulk and want to be near the war zone) are in danger and Hulk saves them forcing Strange to comment how it is difficult to control Zom loosing his focus and leaving him open to the Hulk. The Hulk than simply pounds on Strange till Zom goes away with no comment on what happened to him.

In short, Strange smashes Hulk till he looses focus and Hulk smashes Strange. This is one fight where the good doctor was dumbed down to the Hulk's level. I was expecting this to take up more space or at least be more sentationally, but it was a severe disappointment.

The rest of the issue has the heroes all in the gladiatorial arena. We get the reasons from various people of why the Illuminati are evil. The claims against Reed and Stark are justified. The others against Black Bolt and Strange are not or at least not as much. Against Black Bolt is the claim that a woman's husband died during the Inhumans' attack against NY when a rogue member acted against Black Bolt's orders. I can understand a person wanting revenge, but the one who did the crime should be the one held responsible. Even in are justice system that is the way it is. The claim against Strange is the Zom thing and that she nearly died when the building fail. One, she voluntarily went to a war zone. Two, in reality that is no worse than anything the Hulk has done or arguable a number of other superheroes in other fights.

Hulk of course justifies this by the Illuminati going through what he has gone through and starts the arena with them fighting a monster and then each other.. Both Kork and Hirom acknowledge the Warbound are going to far, but Miek and Elloe thing there is never enough vengeance. I wonder if they would be singing the same tune if they were the ones in the arena? Of course the Hulk has still failed to provide any evidence that the Illuminati rigged the shuttle to explode.

As for the Sentry, turns how it was his agoraphobia that prevented him from dealing with the Hulk in the first place and not past friendship. Also, the amount of energy required could make the Sentry unstable. So it seems the Sentry does have some form of dynamic strength. We get a recap of the conversation between him and Stark at the beginning. Black Bolt it seems to unless a more powerful attack against the Hulk that is Stark's words "broke off a piece the size of Rhode Island" of the moon. Still may not have been a scream. We don't know. Or for all we know it was some Inhuman weapon.

The Sentry has apparently been monitoring the situation with his super senses. And now that the Hulk has decided to execute Stark the Sentry has decided enough is enough, overcomes his fear, and decides "to play god."

As to the human audience in the arena. Why they all think the Hulk is some kind of hero is beyond me. Maybe it is because they see the Hulk taking down what they view as a corrupt system or finally doing what all of them wish they could do. Or they just enjoy the blood lust. Never mind that many of these heroes have saved the world numerous times and fought for the little guy for years.

Overall I give the issue a C.

I am not the most critical person when it comes to comics. (Or at least not as some) But I am also not a major Hulk fan. This issue was just a continuation of past ones of the Hulk gets damaged, heals, than smashes. After about three issues straight it is getting king of stale. The Hulk/Strange fight was a disappointment for the reasons I mentioned. The Hulk has so far still not given any evidence that the Illuminati were the ones responsible. So he is coming across more and more a thug. Any sympathy for him at the beginning is just about gone.

We finally learn why the Sentry has held back and he decides to take action.

I don't really see where this can go from here. The Hulk's healing factor makes him pretty much immune to physical attacks so unless we have ten pages of the Sentry and hulk trading blows each unable to hurt the other. The Sentry's comment about drawing upon too much power may be foreshadowing that during his fight the he will go to far and the Hulk will come out a hero by besting the Void. I REALLY hope I am wrong. For one thing I would like to see one Sentry story where the Void is not the villain. Two, I think the Hulk has gone to far for everything to be forgiven and forgotten.

I wonder if it will be revealed who did blow up the shuttle. I think it is supposed to be revealed eventually. Part of me wishes it was revealed that it was one of the Warbound or that the Sentry gives the solid ko at this point just to knock the Hulk down a peg or two.

Well, enough of this. WWH started out as a great series but has turned into just one smash fest after another that does seem meet to cater to Hulk fans all for the point of Hulk proving himself overall the toughest of not strongest. Issue 5 may redeem the series. I hope it does.


On a lighter note I still think the art was good.

[Dorsai]

I thought that yet again, JRJR is doing an outstanding job on the art. The fight scenes were done very well and conveyed a lot of action. For the fans that like to see the smashing, there is quite a bit of that.

It is good to see the Sentry enter the fight and I hope that a majority of the next and final issue is an epic battle. But the Sentry was also the weakest point of what has been -- so far -- a very entertaining event. The reasons for the Sentry's reluctance and his reasons for getting in the fight seem really contrived. I was not familiar with the Sentry's fear of open spaces -- he has thrown several people/villains into the sun from wide open space -- so his reluctance to cross his threshold seemed a bit of a red herring. There is so much going on within the walls of the mini that it would have read better -- to me at least -- for the Sentry to be hesitant for any number of OTHER reasons:


His friendship with Hulk
Stark and the government essentially treating him like a weapon
Hulk's charges against the Illuminati
The Illuminati's admission that at least some of those charges are true
His fear of the Void (which should have been a minor point)


...instead, they simply added to his "crazy" with a calvary charge to the rescue. To me, that was the weakest part of this issue and mini series in general.

Overall, still a very good issue. The Hulk played both the villain and hero. The fight with Strange really had an epic feel. JRJR did an outstanding job on that sequence. Although this may be the weakest of the mini, this was a good read.

[Magneto Rocks]

I wish to add, as I totally forgot it before, that even though the story itself is becoming ever more uninteresting and meaningless, the art is still absolutely beautiful. Romita is an artist like no other.

I'd give the issue itself 5.5/10, maybe 6, but the art a full 10 with no hesitation.

[slapstickinitiative]

long live zomstrange

[Hulk Strongest One]

Interesting. I don't find the art all that good. I don't follow artists as a fan, but I'd say the WWH: X-Men sub-series was better looking. I will give this artist credit, though, as he draws good and slightly unusual expressions on the faces, even if the jaws are unusually rectangular. :)

As for the story, yeah, the Hulk basically gets a giant hold punched/burned through his chest, like on the order of a foot wide or so. At one point Zomtrange even jams his arm through it. So I suppose the broken neck in Gamma Corp Files (?) ain't no thing if a huge chunk of his spine is destroyed and he comes back fighting seconds later.

At this point, I suspect if the Hulk's head were severed, he'd regrow his entire body in moments. In any case, if Hulk could beat down Strange-with-Zom, he should have had a proper beatdown of Juggernaut.

The fight was underwhelming, though. Hulk just gets his second wind and beats up Zom-Strange. End of story. I'm sure it'll be retconned to Strange mentally working to eject Zom from his body after realizing Zom was gonna trash the Earth or something. :(

In any case, I can't see Sentry winning short of a full, instant vaporization of Hulk. If he's on above the league with the major demons in it, and healing unbelievable physical injury almost instantaneously, that's what it's gonna take.

[CMBMOOL]

If I may say my piece about the issue, yes I think we all knew that it was a matter of time before Strange loses control of Zom and for the Hulk to win.

However I really don't know what is the Sentry game plan if he is afraid of his own powers, afraid of being sent away like the Hulk ? :(

I really don't know who went to far for victory in this issue I would say both of the opposing teams went too far: Strange almost lost some lives in his fight with the Hulk and the Hulk wants the Illuminati members dead. :(

So many questoin and just one issue to go. :(

[Green King]

If I may say my piece about the issue, yes I think we all knew that it was a matter of time before Strange loses control of Zom and for the Hulk to win.

However I really don't know what is the Sentry game plan if he is afraid of his own powers, afraid of being sent away like the Hulk ? :(

I really don't know who went to far for victory in this issue I would say both of the opposing teams went too far: Strange almost lost some lives in his fight with the Hulk and the Hulk wants the Illuminati members dead. :(

So many questoin and just one issue to go. :(

We ARE talking about "Flash" here.

[CMBMOOL]

We ARE talking about "Flash" here.

Okay I'm sorry to say this but now you lost me ? :(

[Magneto Rocks]

...And me as well, GK. :confused:

Off-topic: Congrats on 2500th post, CMBMOOL!

[Kevinroc]

I thought the issue did a great job getting into what this story is really about. Hulk's line that everyone was a monster pretty much summed it up. They've all been dragged down to Hulk's level on the morality scale. And they did it to themselves (okay, the Zom bit is not completely fair since Pak himself wrote that). Who are the monsters? The people that acted as judge, jury and executioner.

[Camron Amaya]

lol First the most predictable cliched thing on Earth with a Thor clone, now the most predictable thing on Earth with "oh oh i'm losing control of this demon".

Marvel seems to think we're idiots who have never read a comic, watched a movie or ventured outside the house before.

I still like the crossover, but that part sucks.

[jigrig]

Sorry, not convinced Hulk is going to let Stark be killed, He'll probably start to stop it & then get hammered by Sentry, in any case, Zom Strange was unable to even hurt Hulk for more than seconds but Hulk laid Him out easily, nothing will convince Me otherwise.
Sentry vs. Hulk, well now We will find out just how far Marvel is willing to go to make this lame hero work or not work.
That being said, after reading the first 3 issues of Thor, I get the feeling that Thor claiming He is no longer holding back, Marvel had no choice but to upgrade Hulk so They could still be The most powerful 2 Heroes in The Marvel Universe.
Again, Thats My opinion.
Mags, You must be foaming at the mouth for that Iron-Man movie, even I cant wait, unfortunately I still have no faith in holding out for a really great Hulk movie, Hope I'm wrong.

[CMBMOOL]

Weren't we also promise a BIG moment for the Warbound warrior name Hirom in this issue ? :(




Off-topic: Congrats on 2500th post, CMBMOOL!

Thanks. :D

[IamtheRock3]

well it does say something good about stranghe, that the only witness they could find against him is clearly a derange woman


Anyway fight was diapointing

But like the rest

[Camron Amaya]

None of this really makes sense though. One second Zom is so powerfull they need Living Tribunal to shut him up, next he's getting beat down by Hulk. But then they need Sentry to come and beat up Hulk. So I guess when Sentry goes insane they'll be calling the Living Tribunal to stop him since he's even stronger then Zom!


What was the point of Strange ever swolloing Zom? it would've been more interesting if he just used his own powers and battled Hulk and somehow lost. At least that would be more belivable.

[drwho]

It was nice seeing all the heroes go Gladiatorial and still show that they formidable. Tony Stark was really impressive. I think though what stands out to me the most was the whole Sentry part. They are really handling the character of Sentry well I think in this mini. The are showing how much of a messed up nutcase he truly is. I was a little disappointed to see an uber powerful Strange get taken out. I just hope this has a better ending then Civil War. All this action going on its gonna be hard for Marvel to keep the story end up to the same level of excitement. Also the art this issue to me seemed a lot cleaner and tighter.

[Shyft]

I wish to add, as I totally forgot it before, that even though the story itself is becoming ever more uninteresting and meaningless,

what were you expecting? Im pretty sure the whole build up the WWH, its solicits, etc, made it quite clear this event was going to be about Hulk smashing stuff. thats pretty much what has been delivered so far.

[Magneto Rocks]

What was the point of Strange ever swolloing Zom? it would've been more interesting if he just used his own powers and battled Hulk and somehow lost. At least that would be more belivable.

That's what I'm wondering. I would have said before Zztrange was doine to avoid jobbing. But there *WAS* massive jobbing. So it seems the only purpose of using Zom was so Pak could try and paint Strange in a bad light. Unfortunately, we're at the point where half the audience save the dire Hulkfans appear to be abandoning Hulk as clearly wrong (That's the definite impression I've gotten on newsarama, IGN and elsewhere anyway) so it doesn't make all that much difference.

I wonder why Tom Foster doesn't appear to blame Hank Pym in any way despite him being far more instrumental than Tony and roughly as instrumental as Reed.

It's odd how very far they've gone to provide "Out"s for everyone who has fought Hulk in this crossover. Black Bolt, Iron Man, Doctor Strange and Juggernaut all have gigantic question marks hanging over them. Sentry#s will hopefully be resolved. Thor was totally ignored.

So.... who exactly do we now have definite proof Hulk could crush that we didn't before the crossover? Because it seems to me if they have a chance of stopping Hulk, a huge potential "Out" is provided when they lose.

what were you expecting? Im pretty sure the whole build up the WWH, its solicits, etc, made it quite clear this event was going to be about Hulk smashing stuff. thats pretty much what has been delivered so far.

Less jobbing, a *little* more characterization, less... well, bad writing. No one can convince me the Sentry's part in this crossover up until now has been anywhere near well handled. Balance has gone all over the place too, the first issue mostly justified Iron Man's perspective, then in the second justifying EITHER side was forgotten, then in the third Strange acted like a loon and Hulk went nuts, then in this... It's not balance, it's as though Pak has a severe case of MPD and can't decide what he wants the message to be. Oh, and frankly... better smashing. NO fight since Tony/Hulk has satisfied me, though Zztrange wasn't far off before the laughable ending.

[Superbeast]

I think we all expected this to happen with Zom/Strange leading to his jobbing. Which is sad. They break out a top level demon as a mere plot device and then don't even really explain where he goes after Strange got stomped out. Is Zom now free and going to possess someone else soon or try get his own corporeal form back? Is he going to have Zomlings try get him one? Hell, Zom + Sentry = Zom The Void and a demonic Sentry. Strange has pretty much done one of the dumbest things possible for him to do. "I don't have time to let Wong heal my hands, guess I better summon a demon of infinite destructive powers I may not be able to control, that's a much better idea." This series is losing some steam at this point. I think it may have been better if it were pared down to three issues like WWH; X-Men.

Also, Sentry is such a goddamn tool. I don't know why the Goverment kept bothering him to step up rather than bringing in all available Initiative teams across all the USA to deal with the Hulk. This whole deus ex machina the fate of the world is in your hands alone thing they've dragged out since the first issue has just been boring.

[Magneto Rocks]

I think we all expected this to happen with Zom/Strange leading to his jobbing. Which is sad. They break out a top level demon as a mere plot device and then don't even really explain where he goes after Strange got stomped out. Is Zom now free and going to possess someone else soon or try get his own corporeal form back? Is he going to have Zomlings try get him one? Hell, Zom + Sentry = Zom The Void and a demonic Sentry. Strange has pretty much done one of the dumbest things possible for him to do. "I don't have time to let Wong heal my hands, guess I better summon a demon of infinite destructive powers I may not be able to control, that's a much better idea."

Indeed. Even worse when you consider he apparantly waits a day, then suddenly says "Hmm, Wong, maybe you should heal my ha- naa, no time."
Zom was handled hilariously badly. He was introduced for no apparant reason, used in a fairly.... well, let's see *slightly* unbelievable manner, when many people have never even HEARD of him, used with no real explanation, made Strange psycho... then apparantly proved to be utterly worthless.

And then vanished.

Seriously, the Zom bit now totally bewilders me. It's as though Pak thought it up two minutes before writing the script and then forgot about any sort of pay-off to it. It's just a reason to job and look bad.

Also, Sentry is such a goddamn tool. I don't know why the Goverment kept bothering him to step up rather than bringing in all available Initiative teams across all the USA to deal with the Hulk. This whole deus ex machina the fate of the world is in your hands alone thing they've dragged out since the first issue has just been boring.

Agreed.

[Camron Amaya]

The regular Strange was JUST SAYING "I could wipe you out with a few words!!!........but I'm your friend". He was ALREADY more then enough for Hulk, we all knew this, so Zom-Strange getting stomped out is just lame. I guess you could say it's cuz he lost control and sabotaged himself but that's even lamer.

lol They just don't know how to capitalize off the buzz and steam they build. It always falls apart at the end. The buzz and excitement was of epic proportions when Thor appeared, then next issue, blach he's a clone. This makes me feel like that.

[Superbeast]

If Strange was losing control, shouldn't Zom have became more dominant and powerful and killed the Hulk when Strange was faltering? How come he didn't take full control when Strange was KO'd and summoned his own body from his dimension or changed Strange's into it? Everyone being forced to unite against Zom would have went along with Stark's hope this event would close some of the current divides after Civil War and brought the Illuminati's would be good deeds to the fore even more since Earth would run the risk of ending up worse than Sakaar if Zom was loose.

[Red Lotus]

I like this issue. Hulk saving his fans made you think he is not the bad guy, but at the end we have a perfect set up. Here you have the Hulk playing God and the Sentry saying if you want to play God then hey its go time. Maybe its just me, but it felt like this set up Sentry the hero flying off to beat the Hulk and save the world.

[Camron Amaya]

If Strange was losing control, shouldn't Zom have became more dominant and powerful and killed the Hulk when Strange was faltering? How come he didn't take full control when Strange was KO'd and summoned his own body from his dimension or changed Strange's into it? Everyone being forced to unite against Zom would have went along with Stark's hope this event would close some of the current divides after Civil War and brought the Illuminati's would be good deeds to the fore even more since Earth would run the risk of ending up worse than Sakaar if Zom was loose.

Lol Exactly.

[ultimate hulk]

I tried posting this earlier, but for some reason my log in suddenly no longer had me logged in.

Anyway, here are my thoughts.

I had a comic shop near by and dropped off to review the issue.

Overall I am disappointed.

The Strange/Hulk fight was too short and a let down. One of the biggest complaints against the Hulk is in most of his fights his opponent is dumbed down to fight the Hulk's way. That is what happened here.

Strange w/Zom easily defeats the other Warbound while Hirom comments how Strange can barely control Zom. We don't know how much power Strange is channeling at the moment. When then get a few pages of Strange literally manhandling the Hulk by kicking him around and blowing holes through his chest.

Of course, some people (who are there to see the Hulk and want to be near the war zone) are in danger and Hulk saves them forcing Strange to comment how it is difficult to control Zom loosing his focus and leaving him open to the Hulk. The Hulk than simply pounds on Strange till Zom goes away with no comment on what happened to him.

In short, Strange smashes Hulk till he looses focus and Hulk smashes Strange. This is one fight where the good doctor was dumbed down to the Hulk's level. I was expecting this to take up more space or at least be more sentationally, but it was a severe disappointment.

The rest of the issue has the heroes all in the gladiatorial arena. We get the reasons from various people of why the Illuminati are evil. The claims against Reed and Stark are justified. The others against Black Bolt and Strange are not or at least not as much. Against Black Bolt is the claim that a woman's husband died during the Inhumans' attack against NY when a rogue member acted against Black Bolt's orders. I can understand a person wanting revenge, but the one who did the crime should be the one held responsible. Even in are justice system that is the way it is. The claim against Strange is the Zom thing and that she nearly died when the building fail. One, she voluntarily went to a war zone. Two, in reality that is no worse than anything the Hulk has done or arguable a number of other superheroes in other fights.

Hulk of course justifies this by the Illuminati going through what he has gone through and starts the arena with them fighting a monster and then each other.. Both Kork and Hirom acknowledge the Warbound are going to far, but Miek and Elloe thing there is never enough vengeance. I wonder if they would be singing the same tune if they were the ones in the arena? Of course the Hulk has still failed to provide any evidence that the Illuminati rigged the shuttle to explode.

As for the Sentry, turns how it was his agoraphobia that prevented him from dealing with the Hulk in the first place and not past friendship. Also, the amount of energy required could make the Sentry unstable. So it seems the Sentry does have some form of dynamic strength. We get a recap of the conversation between him and Stark at the beginning. Black Bolt it seems to unless a more powerful attack against the Hulk that is Stark's words "broke off a piece the size of Rhode Island" of the moon. Still may not have been a scream. We don't know. Or for all we know it was some Inhuman weapon.

The Sentry has apparently been monitoring the situation with his super senses. And now that the Hulk has decided to execute Stark the Sentry has decided enough is enough, overcomes his fear, and decides "to play god."

As to the human audience in the arena. Why they all think the Hulk is some kind of hero is beyond me. Maybe it is because they see the Hulk taking down what they view as a corrupt system or finally doing what all of them wish they could do. Or they just enjoy the blood lust. Never mind that many of these heroes have saved the world numerous times and fought for the little guy for years.

Overall I give the issue a C.

I am not the most critical person when it comes to comics. (Or at least not as some) But I am also not a major Hulk fan. This issue was just a continuation of past ones of the Hulk gets damaged, heals, than smashes. After about three issues straight it is getting king of stale. The Hulk/Strange fight was a disappointment for the reasons I mentioned. The Hulk has so far still not given any evidence that the Illuminati were the ones responsible. So he is coming across more and more a thug. Any sympathy for him at the beginning is just about gone.

We finally learn why the Sentry has held back and he decides to take action.

I don't really see where this can go from here. The Hulk's healing factor makes him pretty much immune to physical attacks so unless we have ten pages of the Sentry and hulk trading blows each unable to hurt the other. The Sentry's comment about drawing upon too much power may be foreshadowing that during his fight the he will go to far and the Hulk will come out a hero by besting the Void. I REALLY hope I am wrong. For one thing I would like to see one Sentry story where the Void is not the villain. Two, I think the Hulk has gone to far for everything to be forgiven and forgotten.

I wonder if it will be revealed who did blow up the shuttle. I think it is supposed to be revealed eventually. Part of me wishes it was revealed that it was one of the Warbound or that the Sentry gives the solid ko at this point just to knock the Hulk down a peg or two.

Well, enough of this. WWH started out as a great series but has turned into just one smash fest after another that does seem meet to cater to Hulk fans all for the point of Hulk proving himself overall the toughest of not strongest. Issue 5 may redeem the series. I hope it does.


On a lighter note I still think the art was good.

well said...spoken like a true hulk hater...:D

[Kevinroc]

Indeed. Even worse when you consider he apparantly waits a day, then suddenly says "Hmm, Wong, maybe you should heal my ha- naa, no time."
Zom was handled hilariously badly. He was introduced for no apparant reason, used in a fairly.... well, let's see *slightly* unbelievable manner, when many people have never even HEARD of him, used with no real explanation, made Strange psycho... then apparantly proved to be utterly worthless.

And then vanished.

Seriously, the Zom bit now totally bewilders me. It's as though Pak thought it up two minutes before writing the script and then forgot about any sort of pay-off to it. It's just a reason to job and look bad.

It's actually a reason to have someone come up there and call Strange a monster. It's a bit unfair since Pak himself wrote that scene (unlike the scenes that are used against Black Bolt, Tony Stark and Reed Richards). It does tie, thematically, to the point that Pak is trying to make here. And he spells it out for the reader. It's really not all that subtle. Hulk's "looks like we're all monsters now" line pretty much says what the point of this issue was.

[Magneto Rocks]

It's actually a reason to have someone come up there and call Strange a monster.

Exactly, as I said above. I repeat, make Strange look bad.

It's a bit unfair since Pak himself wrote that scene (unlike the scenes that are used against Black Bolt, Tony Stark and Reed Richards). It does tie, thematically, to the point that Pak is trying to make here. And he spells it out for the reader. It's really not all that subtle. Hulk's "looks like we're all monsters now" line pretty much says what the point of this issue was.

Indeed, unfortunately if one prioritises, Hulk's still the worst monster here.

Well, maybe Zom, I'll grant you that, but assuming he isn't hovering around there somewhere. ;)

This makes me mystified (Pun intended) as to what consequences this has for Strange. Er, he has to round up Zom again? Or does he just spend ages thinking "Damn, what did I do?"

[Badfish40oz]

Most of the bad reviews so far in this thread =

"Waaaaaa. My character lost. WAAAAA."

[Superbeast]

Hulk isn't here to destroy Earth. He's here for revenge for the death of all those on Sakaar and his own exile. Sentry isn't saving anyone except the asses of those who were involved in Hulk's exile and those who would protect and side with them.

I'm having a very hard time believing Reed would make a hologram rather than a modified Ultimate Nullifier, Iron Man doesn't check his ammo out before suiting up even though you'd think he'd have to since he was breaking in a new one with a specific kind of ammo, Dr Strange would rather let a demon possess him and almost kill Hulk while before he was afraid he'd lose his soul if he killed Hulk outright without a demon inside of him. It's just been one deus ex machina after another so far. The only one who may not have acted like a total idiot so far is BB but we don't know how he lost yet.

[Kevinroc]

Exactly, as I said above. I repeat, make Strange look bad.

As if agreeing to shoot Hulk into space wasn't bad enough. :)

Indeed, unfortunately if one prioritises, Hulk's still the worst monster here.

Well, maybe Zom, I'll grant you that, but assuming he isn't hovering around there somewhere. ;)

This makes me mystified (Pun intended) as to what consequences this has for Strange. Er, he has to round up Zom again? Or does he just spend ages thinking "Damn, what did I do?"

I suppose that's what the New Avengers Annual will answer. ;)

The point is that Hulk hasn't risen to moral superiority over the Illuminati. They have fallen to his level, if not lower.

As the follow-up to Civil War, this mini raises the question if Stark's order is worth it. Going by this series, it is not. This is the kind of response that Stark's line of thinking leads to. And it can only get worse from here.

[DaeJi]

*sigh* Pak's Hulk has become a dud to me. I can't decide if he's a monster, justified, good, bad, hero, villain, etc. And it's not because Pak has woven a complex tale of moral ambiguity, it's because his Hulk is sending mixed signals. The one thing the Hulk has become to me is uninteresting. Ah well, screw it all. I'm out.

[Camron Amaya]

For the 2nd time the Annihilation event will prove doper then the main big Marvel event.

[Clea]

It's actually a reason to have someone come up there and call Strange a monster. It's a bit unfair since Pak himself wrote that scene (unlike the scenes that are used against Black Bolt, Tony Stark and Reed Richards). It does tie, thematically, to the point that Pak is trying to make here. And he spells it out for the reader. It's really not all that subtle. Hulk's "looks like we're all monsters now" line pretty much says what the point of this issue was.


This is jobbing at its worst. Pak couldn't find any other way to make Strange look bad so he had him do something that was both profoundly stupid and profoundly out of character. Then he asks the readers to ignore how stupid it all is and just go along with it because otherwise the underlying setup of "All Illuminati = villains/Hulk = innocent victim" just fails.

[CMBMOOL]

*sigh* Pak's Hulk has become a dud to me. I can't decide if he's a monster, justified, good, bad, hero, villain, etc. And it's not because Pak has woven a complex tale of moral ambiguity, it's because his Hulk is sending mixed signals. The one thing the Hulk has become to me is uninteresting. Ah well, screw it all. I'm out.

Don't leave just yet, all we had to do is hold out for 1 more issue. :(

[CMBMOOL]

For the 2nd time the Annihilation event will prove doper then the main big Marvel event.

More power to the Nova fans then. :D

[DaeJi]

Don't leave just yet, all we had to do is hold out for 1 more issue. :(

Unless the Sentry beats the hell out the Hulk easily with Cho being crushed by his "hero" and the Warbound beat senseless by D-Man, I don't care.

For the 2nd time the Annihilation event will prove doper then the main big Marvel event.

Never have I seen truer words posted on this board.

[Shyft]

Less jobbing, a *little* more characterization, less... well, bad writing. No one can convince me the Sentry's part in this crossover up until now has been anywhere near well handled. Balance has gone all over the place too, the first issue mostly justified Iron Man's perspective, then in the second justifying EITHER side was forgotten, then in the third Strange acted like a loon and Hulk went nuts, then in this... It's not balance, it's as though Pak has a severe case of MPD and can't decide what he wants the message to be. Oh, and frankly... better smashing. NO fight since Tony/Hulk has satisfied me, though Zztrange wasn't far off before the laughable ending.

Meh, i guess i see what you mean. I personally enjoyed him beating up the army, but it was a bit like watching a bazillionth rerun of Friends, entertaining, but we've seen it before, ALOT. I personally think Balance has been one of the better sides of this cross-over...Dont forget that this isnt just a "there are two sides, here is eaches opinion" ala Civil War. There are those who sympathise with the Hulk to a certain extent, alot, not much...There has been a good use of panels showing what Hulk lost in the explosion of Sakaar..Iron Man's issue was a brilliant bit of writing, probably one of the few times in the last year or so that i've really felt Iron Man wasnt just being a knob because thats what he is. I personally hold it up with Casualties of War, in terms of fair point of view.

And Hulk acting like a loon? Lol, this is one of like 8 personalities seen within the green body. Just because it SEEMS more rational doesnt mean it actually IS.

The Sentry point is fair enough, but then, its a pretty difficult situation to write. I dont have any better ideas right off the bat, but i guess there probably are some?

I dunno, i just think that this event was MEANT to be Hulk and his Warbound beating everyone up. OBVIOUSLY it has to end with him eventually losing, otherwise..what would be left? It would be a bit naive to expect Hulk to come out of this with The Illuminati dead and Hulk the Big Boss. But for enjoyable fights, a fair (in my opinion) amount of balance, and awesome art, i think overall WWH has more or less done its job well.

[Red Lotus]

Don't leave just yet, all we had to do is hold out for 1 more issue. :(

True and its the one issue that can save this event for me. If the Sentry comes end and saves the day then all would be right in marvel.

[mike627]

Most of the bad reviews so far in this thread =

"Waaaaaa. My character lost. WAAAAA."Yeah,it's been that way since issue#1.I have had fun with this mini,can't wait for Pak's third act.:cool:

[Magneto Rocks]

The problem is, if you're trying to show the Illuminati falling to the same level as Hulk... you shouldn't then have Hulk sink EVEN LOWER in the same event so that they're where he once was... but still way above where he is at the time.

And as for Sentry... dammit, I really hoped there'd be an actual explanation beyond the blatantly obvious/deux ex machina for him not doing something. It was already impossible to justify three issues of "WIll I? Won't I? Will I? Won't I? Will I?" etc, but man oh man was this a bad way to resolve it. DaeJi said it all.

Most of the bad reviews so far in this thread =

"Waaaaaa. My character lost. WAAAAA."

Because if our characters had won, then the writing of Sentry would magically have become less cliché, the plot less predictable, the writing in general less pedestrian and the balance... er, balanced.

WWH 1 seemed balanced.

After that, Pak has devolved it, as though rather than showing both sides equally he should show something RELALY bad for one side then REALLY bad for the other then REALLY good for one side, then REALLY bad for that side, then... etc, etc.

[1WEBHEAD]

I really wanted to like this issue but it was too predictable, too cliqued and a bit boring.. . .

I want to give you a 5/5, WWH, vut I simply can't. . .

3/5

The delays didn't help out much either.

[Kevinroc]

The problem is, if you're trying to show the Illuminati falling to the same level as Hulk... you shouldn't then have Hulk sink EVEN LOWER in the same event so that they're where he once was... but still way above where he is at the time.

The thing of it is, Hulk is doing to them what he thinks they did to him. And it's still about equal to what Stark and co. did during Civil War. Maybe a little less since Hulk didn't make his own copy of Thor.


Because if our characters had won, then the writing of Sentry would magically have become less cliché, the plot less predictable, the writing in general less pedestrian and the balance... er, balanced.

WWH 1 seemed balanced.

After that, Pak has devolved it, as though rather than showing both sides equally he should show something RELALY bad for one side then REALLY bad for the other then REALLY good for one side, then REALLY bad for that side, then... etc, etc.

You're getting into this attitude since the series has been about showing that Tony Stark is wrong. That his actions breed a terrible response. This whole series should have been called "Tony Stark is wrong and this is why..."

[firstmode]

Dr. Strange put a beat down on the hulk!

Too bad he lost in the end when he was weak and wanted to help the civilians (Just kidding, glad he is a good guy and wanted to help those people)

Big Stone Guy wants hulk to stop what he is doing, thinks it is going tooo far, Interesting.....

The hulk is about to order Reed Richards to Kill Tony stark with a big heavy mace..... Then:

Sentry...... "You Hear that, Bruce?" "Time to play God." Flying to action just as the order is given.

The Sentry will stop the hulk. This is the story that builds up the Sentry, revealing how powerful he really is....

[protege]

It might be a bit sadisitic, but i wanted to see a bit more of the hulk torturing his enemies, at the end of last issue(?)

[Hidden Agenda]

I stand by my beliefs that all of this would have been much more dramatic if Marvel would have timed Thor's return in substitution to the Sentry's role in WWH.

"It's time to play God" would have meant alot more coming from someone who could use it literally and who isn't holding anything back these days.

[XPac]

I stand by my beliefs that all of this would have been much more dramatic if Marvel would have timed Thor's return in substitution to the Sentry's role in WWH.

"It's time to play God" would have meant alot more coming from someone who could use it literally and who isn't holding anything back these days.

Storywise, Sentry works for a variety of reasons.

For one thing, he has a more personal relationship with Hulk than Thor does.

And secondly, we have already seen Thor cut lose. Sentry is something we've never seen before... so him cutting lose is an event in and of itself.

[Camron Amaya]

I stand by my beliefs that all of this would have been much more dramatic if Marvel would have timed Thor's return in substitution to the Sentry's role in WWH.

"It's time to play God" would have meant alot more coming from someone who could use it literally and who isn't holding anything back these days.

But then what would they use to springboard their beloved Sentry into stardom!

[Superbeast]

Storywise, Sentry works for a variety of reasons.

For one thing, he has a more personal relationship with Hulk than Thor does.

And secondly, we have already seen Thor cut lose. Sentry is something we've never seen before... so him cutting lose is an event in and of itself.

He CAN'T cut loose. If he does he can lose control and the Void gains form. Him cutting loose is only an event because he can potentially unleash one of the most powerful bad guys they've brought into the MU.

At this point it seems like men who are meant to be geniuses or at least very intelligent have acted very stupidly and became cannon fodder so Sentry can sweep in and play clean up. Well, that's all well and good, but if his schizo ass had got involved sooner, a lot of damage and beatings could have been saved. He's less a hero and more a last resort because he's a fruit loop that doesn't listen to orders until everyone else is beaten or dead.

So in the end, a schizo emo dude who is a Jekkyl/Hyde/Superhero triumvirate of unreliability and innate risk saves the day where a billion dollar genius with access to virtually limitless technology, a millionaire super powered genius who has access to alien technology, the Sorceror Supreme who is a former doctor and has defeated hordes olf enemies with a single enchantment and battled interdimensional warlords and demons and the leader of the Inhumans with the most dangerous voice in the universe, superstrength, flight and the power of The Master Blow all failed.

Despite 3 of them having 24 hours to formulate a masterplan, the best they could do is break out a new suit that shot blanks because of no last minute checks (which is hard to believe in itself, Tony may be a busy man these days, but he's got a ton of lackeys these days to do these things for him), make a crappy lightshow and try enter his mind... even though he was repelled twice by rage based psi blocks and somehow was stupid enough to think Banner also wouldn't be mad about being kicked off his home planet.

All of these guys have to be Skrulls because no way are they actually that stupid. Two of these guys cloned Thor as a back up plan and the best they had against the Hulk was a new suit with blanks and a high end solarium lamp? Come on.

[Dark Soul # 7]

You're getting into this attitude since the series has been about showing that Tony Stark is wrong. That his actions breed a terrible response. This whole series should have been called "Tony Stark is wrong and this is why..."I'd still blame whoever blew up the ship more then I'd blame Tony or any of the Illuminati.

Because sending Hulk away was actually a pretty good idea. They just didn't market it the right way. I mean he would've been happy on whatever lonely planet he was supposed to go to and despite loads of fighting he was eventually happy on Saakar.

He blames the Illuminati because he thinks that they blew up the ship. So this will all be over when we find out that they didn't do it and somebody else will take the blame and Hulk's wrath, probably Miek.

[XPac]

He CAN'T cut loose. If he does he can lose control and the Void gains form. Him cutting loose is only an event because he can potentially unleash one of the most powerful bad guys they've brought into the MU.

At this point it seems like men who are meant to be geniuses or at least very intelligent have acted very stupidly and became cannon fodder so Sentry can sweep in and play clean up. Well, that's all well and good, but if his schizo ass had got involved sooner, a lot of damage and beatings could have been saved. He's less a hero and more a last resort because he's a fruit loop that doesn't listen to orders until everyone else is beaten or dead.

So in the end, a schizo emo dude who is a Jekkyl/Hyde/Superhero triumvirate of unreliability and innate risk saves the day where a billion dollar genius with access to virtually limitless technology, a millionaire super powered genius who has access to alien technology, the Sorceror Supreme who is a former doctor and has defeated hordes olf enemies with a single enchantment and battled interdimensional warlords and demons and the leader of the Inhumans with the most dangerous voice in the universe, superstrength, flight and the power of The Master Blow all failed.

Despite 3 of them having 24 hours to formulate a masterplan, the best they could do is break out a new suit that shot blanks because of no last minute checks (which is hard to believe in itself, Tony may be a busy man these days, but he's got a ton of lackeys these days to do these things for him), make a crappy lightshow and try enter his mind... even though he was repelled twice by rage based psi blocks and somehow was stupid enough to think Banner also wouldn't be mad about being kicked off his home planet.

All of these guys have to be Skrulls because no way are they actually that stupid. Two of these guys cloned Thor as a back up plan and the best they had against the Hulk was a new suit with blanks and a high end solarium lamp? Come on.

Well, we knew these genius would fail against the Hulk. They all admit that they couldn't do anything about the Hulk, and they've had years to try to come up with something. There's no reason we should expect them to be able to do anything in 24 hours that they couldn't in the past decade.

[Deadpooligan]

If Sentry fails next issue, this series has just jobbed to death. I mean, Hulk beat Strange with the power of Zom (and Strange, for some reason, didn't lose control of his mind and body to Zom when he couldn't handle it).

This book is really starting to bug me. Also, the gladiator fights were so unfair. You'd think Hulk would've evened things out for pure entertainment, but nah, he's just a jerk.

And what is up with people supporting the Hulk? They're the frickin' homeless as crazies of society. Real great showing for that guy.

The accusers of the Illuminati? Pathetic. The Hulk should be the only one that has bearing to call them out. (And Dr. Strange's only accuser is a starving, aging hippie. What?)

Black Goliath's nephew needs to come to the realization that !@#$ happens when you break the law. Clone Thor or no, he threw a truck at Government soldiers and needed to be taken down before the collateral got any worse. I'm tired of his whining; he should just shut up or take the mantle.

Despite 3 of them having 24 hours to formulate a masterplan, the best they could do is break out a new suit that shot blanks because of no last minute checks (which is hard to believe in itself, Tony may be a busy man these days, but he's got a ton of lackeys these days to do these things for him), make a crappy lightshow and try enter his mind... even though he was repelled twice by rage based psi blocks and somehow was stupid enough to think Banner also wouldn't be mad about being kicked off his home planet.

All of these guys have to be Skrulls because no way are they actually that stupid. Two of these guys cloned Thor as a back up plan and the best they had against the Hulk was a new suit with blanks and a high end solarium lamp? Come on.

One agrees. I felt the Reed's plan for stopping Hulk was particularly pathetic, considering his intellect. What was he trying to accomplish anyway? Okay, so you've somewhat calmed the Hulk down with Sentry's image, but you can't distract him forever...

Why the turn in sufficiently worse writing than World War Hulk? I think I've figured it out. Just look at some of the things on Pak's writing repertoire:

X-Men: Phoenix Warsong
Iron Man: House of M
Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects
1602: New World

It's all crap! I bet he had a ghost writer for Phoenix Endsong and Planet Hulk, the anonymous writer who's desperately needed and missed for WWH.

[Superbeast]

Well, we knew these genius would fail against the Hulk. They all admit that they couldn't do anything about the Hulk, and they've had years to try to come up with something. There's no reason we should expect them to be able to do anything in 24 hours that they couldn't in the past decade.

You know what they could have done?

Strange could teleport all of the Warbound away with a wave of his hand, freeze Hulk in time or teleport him into another dimension or into a mystical relic until Tony had time to check his armour was loaded with nanite shells that weren't empty or go back to Stark Tower and get some, Reed could build a vibranium holding cell and then they could restore Hulk, shoot him with plenty of adamantium tipped nanite shells, get him back as Banner and then Strange could put him in a mystical slumber coma until he was moved to the Raft.

These dudes are meant to be f'n geniuses. If I can think of this stuff, they should be able to as well. If they'd put some thought into a counter attack, which considering Reed's paranoia should have been the first thing he did after he agreed to plan a way to send the Hulk into space, this wouldn't have had them all job so hard due to their own stupidity. I mean, how do you underestimate the Hulk after all this damn time? Reed and Tony have top end human and alien technology from years of adventures and Strange is the Sorceror Supreme. He got stabbed in the chest and recovered but his hands get broken and he's useless? He can repair a hole in his goddamn back and chest but can't take a few shots from the Hulk even when imbued with the power of a demon of pure destruction? And again, why didn't Zom summon his own form or change Strange into his new vessel? Strange was already half way to being Zom, Zom should have assumed his form completely and became an even greater threat.

[Syzygy]

Jeez! I'm sorry to hear so many of you were disappointed. Myself, I loved the issue, and had a great time reading it.

As for Hulk vs the Illuminati, I really like all of them. I find that a part of me can just sit back and enjoy this without taking sides. Maybe that helps me enjoy it more.

As for Hulk smacking down Ztrange, well, I'm cool with it. The professional brawler won. To those of you who had a problem: what did you expect? You knew that Ztrange wouldn't win, right?

Anyway, can't wait for #5. Respect the opinions of those of you who disliked it, but got, myself, an entirely positive experience out of it.

[XPac]

You know what they could have done?

Strange could teleport all of the Warbound away with a wave of his hand, freeze Hulk in time or teleport him into another dimension or into a mystical relic until Tony had time to check his armour was loaded with nanite shells that weren't empty or go back to Stark Tower and get some, Reed could build a vibranium holding cell and then they could restore Hulk, shoot him with plenty of adamantium tipped nanite shells, get him back as Banner and then Strange could put him in a mystical slumber coma until he was moved to the Raft.

These dudes are meant to be f'n geniuses. If I can think of this stuff, they should be able to as well. If they'd put some thought into a counter attack, which considering Reed's paranoia should have been the first thing he did after he agreed to plan a way to send the Hulk into space, this wouldn't have had them all job so hard dude to their own stupidity. I mean, how do you underestimate the Hulk after all this damn time?

Strange could have done more... he out right said he simply didn't want to. Hulk was his friend, and he tried handling it in a different manner. It IS fair to say Strange jobbed... but that's the problem with Strange. He's so powerful, you almost always have to job him so that he doesn't fix every single problem with a wave of his hand.

Blackbolt and Strange probably did underestimate the Hulk a bit (Blackbolt has an undefeated streak against him and Strange is flat out more powerful, so it's almost excusable), but Tony and Reed certainly did not. They simply didn't have anything that could stop the Hulk. If they did, they wouldn't have launched him into space to begin with. Remember that this is the entire premise of the story... they don't have a way to stopping the Hulk. There's no reason to assume that in this 24 hour period they can do something they couldn't do in the past decade.

Again, Strange did job a bit... if he actively helped more, they could have stopped the Hulk (which is a fairly good arguement for not launching Hulk into space to begin with). But Strange had to be written the way he was for story reasons. He's basically always written this way.

[Kefky]

Man, I don't wanna add to all the negativity in this thread, but I honestly don't see how a single issue could possibly be enough for a satisfying end to this story. Pak better have something original in mind for the Sentry's arrival, because a big brawl ain't gonna do it. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Also, I've been reading Hulk comics since 1981, and I completely understand that he's supposed to be a bad-ass, but making him virtually immortal is effing retarded.

Hulk 300 was better.

[Clea]

Strange could have done more... he out right said he simply didn't want to. Hulk was his friend, and he tried handling it in a different manner. It IS fair to say Strange jobbed... but that's the problem with Strange. He's so powerful, you almost always have to job him so that he doesn't fix every single problem with a wave of his hand.

Blackbolt and Strange probably did underestimate the Hulk a bit (Blackbolt has an undefeated streak against him and Strange is flat out more powerful, so it's almost excusable), but Tony and Reed certainly did not. They simply didn't have anything that could stop the Hulk. If they did, they wouldn't have launched him into space to begin with. Remember that this is the entire premise of the story... they don't have a way to stopping the Hulk. There's no reason to assume that in this 24 hour period they can do something they couldn't do in the past decade.

Again, Strange did job a bit... if he actively helped more, they could have stopped the Hulk (which is a fairly good arguement for not launching Hulk into space to begin with). But Strange had to be written the way he was for story reasons. He's basically always written this way.

Did Pak have to job him so badly though? Honestly, this whole thing was Zom was supremely idiotic. Pak needed a way to make Strange look stupid and evil and yet still give himself an 'out' that would allow Hulk to beat him. It's a Hulk book so I expect the Hulk to vanquish his opponents, but this? Was simply idiotic. And what's worse is that Bendis is going to be continuing this bit of nonsense over in NAs, where he's already been messing around with Strange's abilities.

And the next issue is the Sentry. Argh! I wanted to like this series. The first couple were okay but it is just going steadily downhill.

[protege]

I stand by my beliefs that all of this would have been much more dramatic if Marvel would have timed Thor's return in substitution to the Sentry's role in WWH.

"It's time to play God" would have meant alot more coming from someone who could use it literally and who isn't holding anything back these days.

Well, apart from Thor #3, we really don't know how Thor feels about the illuminati, and he told Tony he wouldn't get involved, so would he be so quick to ride to the rescue here? When does WWH take place, anyway?

[Superbeast]

Did Pak have to job him so badly though? Honestly, this whole thing was Zom was supremely idiotic. Pak needed a way to make Strange look stupid and evil and yet still give himself an 'out' that would allow Hulk to beat him. It's a Hulk book so I expect the Hulk to vanquish his opponents, but this? Was simply idiotic. And what's worse is that Bendis is going to be continuing this bit of nonsense over in NAs, where he's already been messing around with Strange's abilities.

And the next issue is the Sentry. Argh! I wanted to like this series. The first couple were okay but it is just going steadily downhill.

Anyone remember after the Midnight Sons story Dr Strange disappeared and was replaced with Strange, who I believe turned out to be one of a pair of beings called the Strangers. Two Stranges are better than one Dr Strange, right? Why not channel his energies into them if his own body is weakened? I think one is called Paradox these days.

[Shyft]

The geniuses of the Marvel world have been trying to come up with a way to contain the Hulk for years. The point you've got to accept is that they arent not figuring it out because they are stupid, as Superbeast implies, but that because if they managed to cure/contain him, how could we have any more Hulk stories? Its just the way comics are, its like why does Spiderman constantly hand his villains over to the proper authorities so that they can just break out again.

Moaning about how silly it is is to argue against the very nature of comic books. Yes the Sentry is a last resort and schizo and blah blah blah, but thats the whole point. He probably WILL let loose, and maybe merge with the Void or something, because the whole point of the WWH mini is "who is the monster". And a Sentry-Void/Hulk fight is the perfect outlet for that idea.

[ivesaidway2much]

I freaking loved this issue. It had everything I want in a Hulk comic. Lots of smashing, angry crowd screaming for blood, helpless victimes begging for mercy, people looking on in horror at what they've seen, falling buildings, gaping chest wounds, evil space demons, and more smashing. And in the end, the Hulk is the same indescribable guy he's always been. One part selfless hero, saving a bunch of people even with a hole in his chest. And one part merciless villain, forcing a bunch of friends to fight each other to the death. Any character can be the hero of their own epic tale. Or the villain. Few are both at same time. It's why I've always loved the Hulk (and now the Warbound). He's a refreshing change of pace from the blank-and-white morality of most comic book characters. He's not a hero, villain, or anti-hero he's just the Hulk.

I give this book a 10/10

P.S.: Oh yeah. And Black Bolt blew a chunk the size of Rhode Island off of the moon? Hmm. I wonder how he did that?:D

[Kevinroc]

I'd still blame whoever blew up the ship more then I'd blame Tony or any of the Illuminati.

Because sending Hulk away was actually a pretty good idea. They just didn't market it the right way. I mean he would've been happy on whatever lonely planet he was supposed to go to and despite loads of fighting he was eventually happy on Saakar.

He blames the Illuminati because he thinks that they blew up the ship. So this will all be over when we find out that they didn't do it and somebody else will take the blame and Hulk's wrath, probably Miek.

So the basic message is that it is okay to illegally act as judge, jury and executioner because that green guy likes to hit things and doesn't always play by the rules?

You might as well have just shot every super powered being into space if that's your criteria.

[CaptainCanada]

Hulk's "proof" is just dumb: he tortured them until they did what he wanted them to do. And he still hasn't done anything like a trial, despite what all his proponents kept saying. He's just going to murder everyone because he feels they're guilty.

[ivesaidway2much]

The geniuses of the Marvel world have been trying to come up with a way to contain the Hulk for years. The point you've got to accept is that they arent not figuring it out because they are stupid, as Superbeast implies, but that because if they managed to cure/contain him, how could we have any more Hulk stories? Its just the way comics are, its like why does Spiderman constantly hand his villains over to the proper authorities so that they can just break out again.

Moaning about how silly it is is to argue against the very nature of comic books. Yes the Sentry is a last resort and schizo and blah blah blah, but thats the whole point. He probably WILL let loose, and maybe merge with the Void or something, because the whole point of the WWH mini is "who is the monster". And a Sentry-Void/Hulk fight is the perfect outlet for that idea.Yeah I don't understand the attitude either. If everyone operated at their peak effectiveness in comics, there would be few issues that lasted more than 6 pages. Strange could have snapped his fingers and magicced everyone away. Reed could have come up with some new super high tech deus ex machina. The Hulk could have blown the stone ship's warp core over NYC. Anyway you slice it, that's 1/5 of an issue. Is that what people really want? Six page comics?

[Superbeast]

The geniuses of the Marvel world have been trying to come up with a way to contain the Hulk for years. The point you've got to accept is that they arent not figuring it out because they are stupid, as Superbeast implies, but that because if they managed to cure/contain him, how could we have any more Hulk stories? Its just the way comics are, its like why does Spiderman constantly hand his villains over to the proper authorities so that they can just break out again.
Moaning about how silly it is is to argue against the very nature of comic books. Yes the Sentry is a last resort and schizo and blah blah blah, but thats the whole point. He probably WILL let loose, and maybe merge with the Void or something, because the whole point of the WWH mini is "who is the monster". And a Sentry-Void/Hulk fight is the perfect outlet for that idea.

That's down to his personal values and guilt relating to both Ben and Gwen's deaths.

Comic books can be smart. Allan Moore and Warren Ellis have made careers out of doing just that. I would actually be interested in a Bruce in The Raft arc where he accepts the damage he has done, gets tranq'd 6 times a day but then gets pushed to his limits by his old enemies inside of that place over 8-12 issues and eventually Hulk's out against his will a la Kid Marvelman then using his new skills turns that place inside out.

I'm not saying they could ever stop or kill the Hulk completely, I'm just saying given their powers and resources they could have done a lot better considering their last back up plan for high risk situations was a cloned Thor who killed without a second thought. Now that's a goddamn ace. Holographic sun lamps? Not exactly one the same level.

[Clea]

Yeah I don't understand the attitude either. If everyone operated at their peak effectiveness in comics, there would be few issues that lasted more than 6 pages. Strange could have snapped his fingers and magicced everyone away. Reed could have come up with some new super high tech deus ex machina. The Hulk could have blown the stone ship's warp core over NYC. Anyway you slice it, that's 1/5 of an issue. Is that what people really want? Six page comics?


Of course it's not what people want. People want well-written, clever stories with decent internal logic, not contrived, forced set-ups that only 'work' because the writer says so.

[Kevinroc]

Of course it's not what people want. People want well-written, clever stories with decent internal logic, not contrived, forced set-ups that only 'work' because the writer says so.

This is not the thread to complain about Countdown. :p

[CaptainCanada]

This is not the thread to complain about Countdown. :p
Every thread is a thread to complain about Countdown in. It sucks that much.

[Deadpooligan]

This is not the thread to complain about Countdown. :p

BA-ZING!

So seriously folks, what is up with Jimmy Olsen? People just won't give that guy a break!

Alright, I'll be here all week, thanks you ladies and gentlemen, try the chicken salad.

*boos/hiss*

[ivesaidway2much]

That's down to his personal values and guilt relating to both Ben and Gwen's deaths.Isn't that the same reason Strange and Reed didn't go all out against the Hulk?

Of course it's not what people want. People want well-written, clever stories with decent internal logic, not contrived, forced set-ups that only 'work' because the writer says so.If you're going to introduce real world logic. You'd have to explain why Strange doesn't go around magicking away all the world's worst evils. Why aren't Kang, Doom, Ultron, Magneto, Sinister and all the other villains just stuck in the Dark Dimension or something? What reason is there other than because the editors said so? Or does Strange just not care when he sees villains killing thousands of people?

[K Von Doom]

I think the writer knows next to little about the Dr Strange character.

[Kevinroc]

I think the writer knows next to little about the Dr Strange character.

Considering that he used Zom, I would say that wasn't true. He also knows that Strange is supposed to be Hulk's friend. And so he played on that friendship to tell the story of a man who became a monster to battle a monster.

[Superbeast]

Isn't that the same reason Strange and Reed didn't go all out against the Hulk?

If you're going to introduce logic. You'd have to explain why Strange doesn't go around magicking away all the world's problems? Why aren't Kang, Doom, Ultron, Magneto, Sinister and all the other villains just stuck in the Dark Dimension or something. What reason is there other than because the editors said so?


At first, yes. Then Ztrange blew a giant hole in the Hulk's torso.

He claims he doesn't want to kill the Hulk. Then he summons a demon of infinite destruction and blows a hole in Hulk's chest? Something significant changed there and if it's Zom's influence, why didn't Zom become flesh after Strange got beat?

[gunz]

I'd still blame whoever blew up the ship more then I'd blame Tony or any of the Illuminati.

Because sending Hulk away was actually a pretty good idea. They just didn't market it the right way. I mean he would've been happy on whatever lonely planet he was supposed to go to and despite loads of fighting he was eventually happy on Saakar.

He blames the Illuminati because he thinks that they blew up the ship. So this will all be over when we find out that they didn't do it and somebody else will take the blame and Hulk's wrath, probably Miek.


that's the point. they send hulk to a peaceful planet, he can't be angry. banner can't be angry, he can't be the hulk, therefore, they kinda kill the hulk

[Syzygy]

I freaking loved this issue. It had everything I want in a Hulk comic. Lots of smashing, angry crowd screaming for blood, helpless victimes begging for mercy, people looking on in horror at what they've seen, falling buildings, gaping chest wounds, evil space demons, and more smashing. And in the end, the Hulk is the same indescribable guy he's always been. One part selfless hero, saving a bunch of people even with a hole in his chest. And one part merciless villain, forcing a bunch of friends to fight each other to the death. Any character can be the hero of their own epic tale. Or the villain. Few are both at same time. It's why I've always loved the Hulk (and now the Warbound). He's a refreshing change of pace from the blank-and-white morality of most comic book characters. He's not a hero, villain, or anti-hero he's just the Hulk.

I give this book a 10/10

P.S.: Oh yeah. And Black Bolt blew a chunk the size of Rhode Island off of the moon? Hmm. I wonder how he did that?:D

I seem to recall we don't usually agree, but I share your sentiments on this one. Everything we could want from a Hulk comic was here.

For those of you who were disappointed: hope you'll like next ish.:)

[XPac]

At first, yes. Then Ztrange blew a giant hole in the Hulk's torso.

He claims he doesn't want to kill the Hulk. Then he summons a demon of infinite destruction and blows a hole in Hulk's chest? Something significant changed there and if it's Zom's influence, why didn't Zom become flesh after Strange got beat?

I think the idea is that the Illuminati are walking in Hulk's shoes a bit.

In Strange's case, he's suddenly in the position Banner is in. He now understands what it's like to not be completely in control of yourself.

Next to Xavier, Strange had the least Illuminati related skeletons in his closet (though Xavier picked up quite a few on his own). Now that Strange has basically re-enacted what Hulk has done in the past (only in a more willful manner), he like the rest of the Illuminati can be viewed as a "monster" the same way Hulk is to a degree.

With Strange, it was a bit more forced than some of the rest. Honestly, a well written Strange probably wouldn't be involved with any of this to begin. So Strange can be argued as a bit of a victim as far as fitting him into the story.

[K Von Doom]

Considering that he used Zom, I would say that wasn't true. He also knows that Strange is supposed to be Hulk's friend. And so he played on that friendship to tell the story of a man who became a monster to battle a monster.

It also seems to be the first time Dr Strange has over-reacted in a long time. He doesn't want to kill Hulk but he unleashes a demon that was capable of destroying the whole Earth? Wha..?!! :confused:

[XPac]

It also seems to be the first time Dr Strange has over-reacted in a long time. He doesn't want to kill Hulk but he unleashes a demon that was capable of destroying the whole Earth? Wha..?!! :confused:

He was hurt (physically and emotionally given what Banner did), and desperate (as he was very close to capture), and he made a mistake. It may not have been smart... but they created a desperate enough situation to almost justify it.

He assumed he could pull off the spell and still handle it. Again, he was wrong. But in his mind I don't think he was trading off the safety of the world to stop the Hulk. He was making a calculated risk.

[Maestro]

What about Tony's Negative Zone bomb? I hope they haven't forgot about that!

[ivesaidway2much]

I seem to recall we don't usually agree, but I share your sentiments on this one. Everything we could want from a Hulk comic was here.

For those of you who were disappointed: hope you'll like next ish.:)I'm just glad I wasn't the only one who liked it.:o Hopefully it's because we both have good taste. But with WWH #5 coming out on Halloween,I'm thinking it's going to have lots of crazy fun.

[firstmode]

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/zom.htm

[XPac]

What about Tony's Negative Zone bomb? I hope they haven't forgot about that!

The only thing people are talking about in the main book is nukes... I'm wondering if that negative zone doomsday plan is just something isolated in the Iron Man book that everyone else is sort of going to overlook.

We'll see.

[beetheb]

My random thoughts on the issue-

1. Ztrange really wasn't put to very good use, and I grudgingly agree that the only reason Pak did the whole "Zom" thing was so Hulk would have some reason to justify Strange's involvement in the Arena battle.

2. It looks as though Hiroim did indeed lose an arm, but the art left it very vague. It seemed like they were reluctant to fully commit and show his "stump" as it were.

3. Predictable issue, but not for lack of good writing. I'll tell you why it was predictable (to everyone here, at least) -- We've spent the last 6 months mulling on every distinct possibility and outcome this series could conceivably have had, is it completely surprising that we were sucessful in surmising this issue's events?

I mean Pak wasn't really making it a mystery as to where the story was going, leaving clue after clue for us to catch and analyze. So what happened? For months we filled in the blanks with speculation and fan-fic, then got mad when we ended up being right.

Don't blame Pak for this, blame ourselves for not being able to step back from the story for 2 seconds and allow Pak to take us on the vsceral ride he intended it to be.

We analyzed this event to death, boys.

[gunz]

My random thoughts on the issue-

1. Ztrange really wasn't put to very good use, and I grudgingly agree that the only reason Pak did the whole "Zom" thing was so Hulk would have some reason to justify Strange's involvement in the Arena battle.

2. It looks as though Hiroim did indeed lose an arm, but the art left it very vague. It seemed like they were reluctant to fully commit and show his "stump" as it were.

3. Predictable issue, but not for lack of good writing. I'll tell you why it was predictable (to everyone here, at least) -- We've spent the last 6 months mulling on every distinct possibility and outcome this series could conceivably have had, is it completely surprising that we were sucessful in surmising this issue's events?

I mean Pak wasn't really making it a mystery as to where the story was going, leaving clue after clue for us to catch and analyze. So what happened? For months we filled in the blanks with speculation and fan-fic, then got mad when we ended up being right.

Don't blame Pak for this, blame ourselves for not being able to step back from the story for 2 seconds and allow Pak to take us on the vsceral ride he intended it to be.

We analyzed this event to death, boys.


amen brotha

[Grimm]

More and more does it seem like Strange is a skrull.

[shaxberd]

As stated in the issue, Hulk's had his revenge now. He got his four enemies to feel what he felt by beating each other down to the point of death. They've felt what he felt and to some extend suffered what he suffered, not including the explosion that killed his wife, unborn child, and people. He knows they were responsible for shooting him into space, but he can't be certain of the latter.

Anyway, the revenge part of the scenario is done. That having been accomplished, I think the Hulk now wants to die, and that that's what the thumbs down was all about. He's purposely been broadcasting the arena battle, and he probably knows that Bob is watching. I'm pretty sure his intent is not to kill Tony, but for Sentry to show up and kill him.

[K Von Doom]

Anyway, the revenge part of the scenario is done. That having been accomplished, I think the Hulk now wants to die, and that that's what the thumbs down was all about. He's purposely been broadcasting the arena battle, and he probably knows that Bob is watching. I'm pretty sure his intent is not to kill Tony, but for Sentry to show up and kill him.

The series could use some kind of surprise. Any kind really.

[XPac]

The series could use some kind of surprise. Any kind really.

To a large degree, I don't think it's necessarily that kind of story though. I don't think he's building it up to be a mystery type story like Bendis might... I think the story is more straight foreward.

[K Von Doom]

Still, something unusual like Cap surrendering during Civil War or Nebula gaining the Infinity Gauntlet or even Thano's death in Annihilation, all straightforward stories of mainly fighting but something unexpected happens towards the end. And not something lame like Strange/Zom losing.

[Funkdmonkey]

Straight-forward is boring. There needs to be more twists and surprises, rather than predictability. Every issue I read I put down with a "meh", because it is to easy to predict the events that would happen in the next page, the next 10 pages, the next issue...

The only thing that shocked me was when Strange turned into Ztrange, that was unexpected. However, after reading some of these posts, I'd have to agree it seems like a cheap "setup" and a poorly done one at that.

#5 has to be surprising though :).

[XPac]

Still, something unusual like Cap surrendering during Civil War or Nebula gaining the Infinity Gauntlet or even Thano's death in Annihilation, all straightforward stories of mainly fighting but something unexpected happens towards the end. And not something lame like Strange/Zom losing.

If there's anything unusual, it might be the ultimate fate of the Hulk post WWH. His character is obviously going to have some kind of status quo change.

[XPac]

Straight-forward is boring. There needs to be more twists and surprises, rather than predictability. Every issue I read I put down with a "meh", because it is to easy to predict the events that would happen in the next page, the next 10 pages, the next issue...

The only thing that shocked me was when Strange turned into Ztrange, that was unexpected. However, after reading some of these posts, I'd have to agree it seems like a cheap "setup" and a poorly done one at that.

#5 has to be surprising though :).

I don't necessarily agree... it depends on what you're looking for in a story.

I thought the WWH: X-Men die in was about as straight foreward and predictable as you could get. But I enjoyed it. The Juggernaut thing was a nice twist... but even without it, I would have thought the book was a blast.

[beetheb]

#5 has to be surprising though :).Well, not really. Not according the the insinuations of some...

We know what the story will be: Hulk vs. Sentry. The only thing that really remains in question is: Who wins.

I mean, some of you have come to the conclusion that Pak is telling a predictable story, right? So predictability will tell us it'll be Hulk vs. Sentry. And if the "jobbing" theory is correct, and this series has been entirely in the spirit of "jobbing", is there any reason to assume Sentry won't get jobbed as well?

So, by the predictable + jobbing formula, Hulk will fight Sentry and win....right?

I'll lay anyone in here money that's not even close to how the series will ultimately be resolved.

[XPac]

Well, not really. Not according the the insinuations of some...

We know what the story will be: Hulk vs. Sentry. The only thing that really remains in question is: Who wins.

I mean, some of you have come to the conclusion that Pak is telling a predictable story, right? So predictability will tell us it'll be Hulk vs. Sentry. And if the "jobbing" theory is correct, and this series has been entirely in the spirit of "jobbing", is there any reason to assume Sentry won't get jobbed as well?

So, by the predictable + jobbing formula, Hulk will fight Sentry and win....right?

I'll lay anyone in here money that's not even close to how the series will ultimately be resolved.

I definately don't think it's fair to place the "predictability" label on the Sentry vs Hulk fight. If anything I'd go the other way and argue the writer was trying to build that up... create anticipation for it.

For all the criticism about how predictable the story is, is there really any consensus on how it will end in regards to what Hulks new status quo will be? Maybe others are just more astute than I am... but I'm honestly not looking at the series and seeing any clear indication of where Hulk is headed after this.

I think Civil War was a lot more predictable in that regard. The outcome as far as who would win and what the new status quo would be kinda became obvious.

[beetheb]

For all the criticism about how predictable the story is, is there really any consensus on how it will end in regards to what Hulks new status quo will be? Maybe others are just more astute than I am... but I'm honestly not looking at the series and seeing any clear indication of where Hulk is headed after this.My thoughts exactly. So far the only glimmer of an idea I have is that the Hulk will in some way be Red, have two creative teams, and possibly have Herc and Cho with him.

Other than that -- completely clueless.

Maybe you're right on the Hulk/Sentry fight, Pak may have been building us up for the Grand Battle Royale at the end of the blistering event, but why do I have this nagging feeling that it's going to be a bit more complex than that?

[CaptainCanada]

I get the sense that Pak has had the Hulk roll over everybody, have his fun, get whatever shots in at those who he feels wronged him, and now that he's crossed the line, he's going down.

[seekquaze]

well said...spoken like a true hulk hater...:D

Just because I post a review that is not favorable to the issue does not make mme a true Hulk hater. I admit I have never cared particularly much for the character. It is just now days you can't go really anywhere without running into him and the fact the other heroes have been dumbed down to make the Hulk look good as the first four issues have degenerated into a Hulk fan fic that every Hulk fan can brag about to no end while the other heroes look like chumps had begun to make me a hater.

[beetheb]

OLD LADY:"Yes, um hello. So I had this husband who had his head yanked off during the Inhuman War and even though it was a total mistake and Blackbolt would never gave orders to kill them, I want him dead. Because that'll obviously make me feel better about myself."

Tom Foster: "Hi. My uncle was the black goliath and even though Iron Man and Reed would never have wanted a hole blown through my uncle, they deserve to die over their mistake even after they've saved the world countless times before. I'm ready for the WorldBreaker's laws. Yeah, the green guy that just destroyed half of manhattan."

Funny you singled these out, they were the only two truly legitimate stories. The Third story was some Blonde chick who basically said "Strange, you just now swallowed Zom for no apparent reason and tried to kill us all, you're a baaaaaaaad man."

The two you cited were specific incidents, the Ztrange thing had been like 5 minutes before and (I have to say) was a bit out of character.

[Camron Amaya]

The point is, some things, even in comics, should make sense, and be consistant.

The 2nd point is, the story got dull, and the only reason we're still reading it is to see the outcome of the next fight. If this was the worst crossover of all time we'd still read it at least for that fight.

[CaptainCanada]

Funny that these got the eyeroll, they were the only two truly legitimate stories. The Third story was some Blonde chick who basically said "Strange, you just now swallowed Zom for no apparent reason and tried to kill us all, you're a baaaaaaaad man."

The two you cited were specific incidents, the Ztrange thing had been like 5 minutes before and (I have to say) was a bit out of character.
She was one of those "God Hates Sorcerers" loons hanging around even before Zom.
OLD LADY:"Yes, um hello. So I had this husband who had his head yanked off during the Inhuman War and even though it was a total mistake and Blackbolt would never gave orders to kill them, I want him dead. Because that'll obviously make me feel better about myself."

"Not to mention that it was our government that provoked that whole war."

[seekquaze]

Read through the different posts.

Answer me one question:

Has the Hulk offered ANY proof that the Illuminati are responsible for the explosion?

There is still the possibility one of the Warbound sabatoged it or the Hulk himself caused it with all of his smashing.

I fail to see that the Illuminati have sunk to the Hulk's level.
Yes, it was wrong for them to have exiled him without a trial, but at the same time most of the time the Hulk claims he simply wants to be left alone.

They were not the ones who opened up the portal and sent him to Sakaar.

They were not the ones who force him to fight in gladitorial games.

They were not the ones who blew up the planet.

While the Hulk could have some sympathy in the beginning it has been lost thoughout with the constant "never stop making them pay." Both Korg and Hirom have realized the Hulk is going to far. Hirom refuses to do anything about it and Korg I think is still borderline.

For their crimes, the only one that really holds any weight is the one against Reed and Tony. Tony most of all considering all the stuff he has pulled, but even then not enough to be executed in such savage a way. Black Bolt did not order it and even in our society he would not be held responsible. Strange took an out-of-character risk with Zom, but the best witness is some deranged woman. And Strange was not really acting that different than the way the Hulk has often acted.

As to the jobbing issue. I think there has been some.
Strange is a given. Reed is arguable since both he and the Black Panther have all sorts of devicies. I am willing to let the Tony one slide.
So, they do not think they can contain him or cure him (mainly for in story reasons). That does not mean they cannot do something. Last time I checked the Hulk cannot teleport between dimensions or fly.

Starting out with the talk of the Hulk planning and these "battle skills" he supposedly obtained I was expecting him to take out the Illuminait with a combination of brains and brawn. So far it has been little brains and mostly just the Hulk using his brawn with Illuminait getting dumber by the issue.

[Omega Alpha]

Meh issue. More crap from Robert "The devil is in my pants" Reynolds (thanks, Norman:D), and ZomStrange was lame. JRJR's art was amazing, though.

[Vaal]

The whole Zom thing was because no one has ever seen how many times Strange opens the wrong portal, contacts the wrong entity and almost ends the world. The best part of the Sorcerer Supreme gig is plausable deniablity. Any evil god-clones he makes, or over zealous nutbags he leads are safely out of the limelight.

I'm hoping Hulk completely trashes Sentry with little to no effort next issue. I really don't want this event to be nothing but a promo for that loser.

[Kefky]

You can't really say that Tony was jobbed. He put on his Hulk armor, and put up a decent fight, even though he knew he couldn't win.

I suppose you could say that Reed wanted to use non-violent ways to stop the Hulk, so that can excuse the jobbing.

Strange, eh... What're ya gonna do? :p

[voltron]

My thoughts exactly. So far the only glimmer of an idea I have is that the Hulk will in some way be Red, have two creative teams, and possibly have Herc and Cho with him.

Other than that -- completely clueless.

Maybe you're right on the Hulk/Sentry fight, Pak may have been building us up for the Grand Battle Royale at the end of the blistering event, but why do I have this nagging feeling that it's going to be a bit more complex than that?

Well we arent COMPLETELY clueless
according to solits that came our for December

According to WARBOUND #1. i appears that Gammaworld has been built

[seekquaze]

You can't really say that Tony was jobbed. He put on his Hulk armor, and put up a decent fight, even though he knew he couldn't win.

I suppose you could say that Reed wanted to use non-violent ways to stop the Hulk, so that can excuse the jobbing.

Strange, eh... What're ya gonna do? :p

Reed though you would expect something better even if it is just an anti-gravity gun.

Strange, well with Hirom the Hulk could have tried to lure the Hulk out into the open or have Hirom ready to attack Strange while he was distracted by the Hulk. Then an injuried Strange taken out by Hirom before he can do anything. Or have Strange attack with his own powers and Hirom have some mystical item that negates magic and take Strange out physically.

Any of those would I think would not come across as much as jobbing because they are more plausible than Strange bonding with an ancinet demon and than merely being pounded on by the Hulk while forgetting his other powers.

[K Von Doom]

Reed though you would expect something better even if it is just an anti-gravity gun.

Strange, well with Hirom the Hulk could have tried to lure the Hulk out into the open or have Hirom ready to attack Strange while he was distracted by the Hulk. Then an injuried Strange taken out by Hirom before he can do anything. Or have Strange attack with his own powers and Hirom have some mystical item that negates magic and take Strange out physically.

Any of those would I think would not come across as much as jobbing because they are more plausible than Strange bonding with an ancinet demon and than merely being pounded on by the Hulk while forgetting his other powers.

You, sir, should be writing this series.

[jigrig]

This Hulk is much more powerful than any previous Hulk, where was there jobbing other than the Warbound beating the Heroes they beat.
Black Bolt, He's beat dumb Hulk 3 times only after taking a bit of a beating first + He has had his toadies helping Him also & if You read the stories Hulk had BB beat but didnt pay attention.
His master blow did jack S#$T to Hulk & should have left BB helpless according to The Marvel Universe deluxe Edition Handbook.
Iron-Man: You have to be kidding Me!
Richards: See above.
Dr. Strange: Another Hero who has been jobbed as often as Hulk, unfortunately for Strange Fans, it was His turn.
I dont even know why there is an arguement here, Hulk has been shown over & over again to be the most PHYSICALLY powerful Hero in the Marvel Universe.
No mystical Uru hammer.
No armor.
No relying on mystical gems or mists.
Let it go, move on to the next story.

[Syzygy]

One thing though, does bother me on a third reading. I didn't like Stark's line about "playing God." Why not have him say, "Time to be a hero.":confused:

[beetheb]

One thing though, does bother me on a third reading. I didn't like Stark's line about "playing God." Why not have him say, "Time to be a hero.":confused:I believe they were saying it in the context of "Playing god with peoples' lives".

Sentry's concern seemed to be that unleashing his full power could result in innocent deaths, to which Stark says that He, and all superheroes, have to make those decisions in order to be the hero.

[Spiffy]

Very dissapointed.

I found this issue SO predictable. We all called this Sentry thing too, and I bet we all know what happens next when he inevitably loses control of his dark side...

[Syzygy]

I believe they were saying it in the context of "Playing god with peoples' lives".

Sentry's concern seemed to be that unleashing his full power could result in innocent deaths, to which Stark says that He, and all superheroes, have to make those decisions in order to be the hero.

Yes, I understand what you're saying, literally speaking. But for Stark to choose those particular words seems very callous and unheroic. If you had a solemn duty to perform saving lives, would you describe it as "playing God?"

That's more the kind of language I'd expect supervillains like Mr Sinister or the Dark Beast to use. It just makes Stark (and Sentry) look unnecessaily bad, IMO. It was especially distressing to hear after Stark made such an excellent accounting for himself while fighting Hulk earlier, with his "I will always protect you" speech.

What do you think Captain America would say if he heard Stark talk like that? He'd probably be able to put his finger on exactly what's wrong with it.

[Spider-Sense]

Another great issue.Bring on the "golden man"!

Favorite quote:Banner is me.

[thronzeblast]

Man i knew this was gonna be a smashfest but other than Ross showing up and Strange channeling Zom This whole thing has been straight forward and predictable.I have never once in this event thought the hulk was in any danger from anyone he fought.I thought Strange was gonna give him a serious challange with him channeling zom but just like everyone else the hulk beat him down without much trouble.Didnt the sentry supposedly stalemate galactus how the hell is he worried about what it would take to stop the hulk after that.And were is all the planning hulk and hiriom did on the ship to fight these guys'.Let me see hulk saw ironman hulk fought and beat ironman then the avenger's the the fantastic four this was after he beat down the x-men.I guess you could call tricking strange as a strategy but if strange didnt decide to make himself vulnerable what was the hulk gonna do.

After the first issue of wwh this whole thing started to go downhill now issue's two and three were by now mean's bad issue but i could see it just getting worse and worse.Then there was gamma files i mean after reading that you already knew the ending to the x-men tie-in and the ending to Ih#110.Im still holding out hope that the last issue is gonna blow me away dont get me wrong i am still enjoying it but i just think it could have been some much better.

[Camron Amaya]

Man i knew this was gonna be a smashfest but other than Ross showing up and Strange channeling Zom This whole thing has been straight forward and predictable.I have never once in this event thought the hulk was in any danger from anyone he fought.I thought Strange was gonna give him a serious challange with him channeling zom but just like everyone else the hulk beat him down without much trouble.Didnt the sentry supposedly stalemate galactus how the hell is he worried about what it would take to stop the hulk after that.And were is all the planning hulk and hiriom did on the ship to fight these guys'.Let me see hulk saw ironman hulk fought and beat ironman then the avenger's the the fantastic four this was after he beat down the x-men.I guess you could call tricking strange as a strategy but if strange didnt decide to make himself vulnerable what was the hulk gonna do.

After the first issue of wwh this whole thing started to go downhill now issue's two and three were by now mean's bad issue but i could see it just getting worse and worse.Then there was gamma files i mean after reading that you already knew the ending to the x-men tie-in and the ending to Ih#110.Im still holding out hope that the last issue is gonna blow me away dont get me wrong i am still enjoying it but i just think it could have been some much better.


I really think it's pointless to go by that since we know nothing about it, how it happend or why. We have someone saying it happend, that's all.

But seriosly they have Hulk beating down Zom, so I wouldn't even be suprised at this point if they're trying to say it's gonna take more to stop Hulk then it would Galactus.

[Syzygy]

But seriously they have Hulk beating down Zom....

Lotta people have problems with Zom getting a beat-down. Here's my read:

As I understood it, Strange was "channeling" Zom, as in, getting energy from him. But I thought the idea was that Strange was still accessing only a fraction of Zom's might.

Then when Strange threw the Hulk into that wall, nearly killing "the little people," I gathered that he began to doubt himself, and the power started to ebb. You know, sort of, "he who hesitates is lost."

Just my interpretation.

[Camron Amaya]

Lotta people have problems with Zom getting a beat-down. Here's my read:

As I understood it, Strange was "channeling" Zom, as in, getting energy from him. But I thought the idea was that Strange was still accessing only a fraction of Zom's might.

Then when Strange threw the Hulk into that wall, nearly killing "the little people," I gathered that he began to doubt himself, and the power started to ebb. You know, sort of, "he who hesitates is lost."

Just my interpretation.


A reasonable one. If that's the case they should at least make it more clear. Strange just looked like he stopped hitting, then he got beat up. We're left on our own to defend the writers and come up with theories and things to excuse it.

[beetheb]

A reasonable one. If that's the case they should at least make it more clear. Strange just looked like he stopped hitting, then he got beat up. We're left on our own to defend the writers and come up with theories and things to excuse it.I thought it was pretty obvious that Strange's mind took control when he watched that rubble fall on those civilians. Is it hard to believe Hulk exploited this moment of weakness, then mercilessly beat him into submission long enough to put him in an obedience disc?

I think that was all pretty apparent, but I guess different readers take different things away from each issue.

[Dark Soul # 7]

So the basic message is that it is okay to illegally act as judge, jury and executioner because that green guy likes to hit things and doesn't always play by the rules?

You might as well have just shot every super powered being into space if that's your criteria.Executioner? They sent him away to be alone, just like he always wanted. Granted, they should probably have asked Bruce Banner first.

Also, Hulk is a special case. When he's not fighting somebody or roaming the countryside he's going all Godzilla on whatever town he is in.

[Kevinroc]

Executioner? They sent him away to be alone, just like he always wanted. Granted, they should probably have asked Bruce Banner first.

Also, Hulk is a special case. When he's not fighting somebody or roaming the countryside he's going all Godzilla on whatever town he is in.

Anyone that thinks Hulk really wants to be alone forever just plain doesn't understand him at all. I see this charge used a lot. "Hulk says he wants to be left alone." No, that's not what he wants at all. He wants to be accepted and he doesn't want to be attacked just for existing. He tends to scream "leave Hulk alone" when he's provoked.

And everyone is supposed to have rights. You can't just exclude an individual.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Anyone that thinks Hulk really wants to be alone forever just plain doesn't understand him at all. I see this charge used a lot. "Hulk says he wants to be left alone." No, that's not what he wants at all. He wants to be accepted and he doesn't want to be attacked just for existing. He tends to scream "leave Hulk alone" when he's provoked.

And everyone is supposed to have rights. You can't just exclude an individual.Hm, I'll agree that I don't really understand the Hulk then. Never been his biggest fan anyway.

But he should kind of make it more clear that he wants respect instead of being alone. I mean, Reed and the other Illuminati thought the same way I did.

Yes he has rights, which is why I said that they should've asked Bruce Banner about it first.

[garin]

I thought this was the weakest issue so far, the fight with Strange was seriously anti-climactic and pretty generic. Planet Hulk made me interested in the Hulk for the first time, but World War Hulk is really starting to make me despise the character.

[jackolover]

Well, this issue begins to pinpoint something about where Silent War can be placed. From What Clarinda Roberts says, Silent War started a month ago Marvel time, when her husband was beheaded in a theatre (Issue 1 of Silent War). So my querie is, did Attilan get destroyed before Hulk came to the moon, (the end of Silent War), or, does Silent War still have to conclude, after Black Bolts return to the moon after WWH?

So, Hulk IS evil after all. That picture of the Hulk signaling the thumbs down puts payed to any questions anybody has as to whether the Hulk would intentionally allow the Illuminati to kill each other, and now we see that he will. I was a little unsure of what Rick Jones was talking about during the Hulk - Strange battle, because it sounded like Rick was egging on the Hulk. Either Rick Jones was using reverse psychology, or Rick is a skrull, and is convincing the Hulk to continue his war games. I'm not sure what that sequence was about.

My last opinion about the WWH series, is that exploding earth symbol, on the cover of the WWH series. What if the Sentry does unleash such a strong blast, that he actually blows up the earth doing it? I don't really think he will, or the MU will be destroyed. But what if the Sentry gets to the point of playing God, and then sees what he is about to do, will have the result of a fractured earth, then stops? People like Tony do make the decisions to play god, because Tony and Fury can only see the bad side of inaction. But the Sentry seems to be someone who stands back, looks at the situation without fear or favor, and realises that little dramas that humans panic about, are so small in the context of the big picture, that it isn't worth acting upon. Humans think the world revolves around their little fears, and consequentely, nuclear wars start. It requires that a real God step in and make the little humans sit up and realise, not everything humans think is a disaster, becomes an Apocalypse. This is what I think the Sentry will point out in the last issue. The Hulk is a transient event, and this too will pass.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

About time too! :evilsmile

[Karthak]

So, Hulk IS evil after all. That picture of the Hulk signaling the thumbs down puts payed to any questions anybody has as to whether the Hulk would intentionally allow the Illuminati to kill each other, and now we see that he will.
Evil? He wants the guy dead who he blames for the deaths of his child, his wife, and his people. That doesn't make him evil in my opinion.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

Robert Reynolds/ The Sentry is agoraphobic.

Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder which primarily consists of the fear of experiencing a difficult or embarrassing situation from which the sufferer cannot escape.

In more specific and analytical terms, it is actually a fear of panic attacks; literally, a fear of fear. As a result, severe sufferers of