New Exiles

[david r]

WHAT THE? NOBODY HAS STARTED A THREAD FOR THE NEW SERIES CALLED "NEW EXILES"?

That's right, Exiles is ending with #100, and because YOU DEMANDED IT!! they are starting NEW EXILES!! Enjoy!!! :) :)

[Dagger]

Why would you want to expose this title to more vitirol than it already gets? I thought you were a die-hard CCophile!

[david r]

But they should have titled it X-Treme eXiles!

Has a nice ring to it, eh?

[Arilou]

Is Claremont writing New Exiles?

*holds out the slimmest of hope that someone like Ellis is*

[david r]

@Dagger, I'm not making this up. Exiles ends with #100, and a new series is launching out of X-Men: Die By The Sword called New Exiles.

[Beast]

Why would you want to expose this title to more vitirol than it already gets? I thought you were a die-hard CCophile!
Glutton for Punishment is my guess.

[Dagger]

But they should have titled it X-Treme eXiles!

Has a nice ring to it, eh?
Sure, if you want to be changed to a mini after 6 issues.

[Beast]

Is Claremont writing New Exiles?

*holds out the slimmest of hope that someone like Ellis is*
It's Claremont.

[Maestro]

Marvel never pays attention to Exiles. Now with new titles like Cable and X-Force, why even included it at all

[david r]

Is Claremont writing New Exiles?

*holds out the slimmest of hope that someone like Ellis is*

Ellis is busy with Astonishing X-Men and Decompression Unlimited.

X-Legend Chris Claremont, the man who wrote your favorite X-stories, is launching New Exiles and says it will be a totally different take on the concept. And moving away from anything he's done before in the X-canon.

[Dagger]

@Dagger, I'm not making this up. Exiles ends with #100, and a new series is launching out of X-Men: Die By The Sword called New Exiles.
I know, I'm just saying it's not going to end pretty.

[Beast]

Ellis is busy with Astonishing X-Men and Decompression Unlimited.

X-Legend Chris Claremont, the man who wrote your favorite X-stories, is launching New Exiles and says it will be a totally different take on the concept. And moving away from anything he's done before in the X-canon.
Where are you getting these comments from Claremont?

Ah, just found them. Interesting. Looking forward to it. :)

[Nachturne]

I thought only Cronin was allowed to start Exiles threads...

[Pach!]

I hope and I know this is dumb of me, but I truly hope that his cast is better than alternate versions of pet characters. If at least 1 of his cast I find original enough, I'll give it a chance.

[david r]

@Beast, Comix-Fan. He's been posting again.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Ellis is busy with Astonishing X-Men and Decompression Unlimited.

X-Legend Chris Claremont, the man who wrote your favorite X-stories, is launching New Exiles and says it will be a totally different take on the concept. And moving away from anything he's done before in the X-canon.

Yeah with his same pet characters and his same writing style I'm sure.

Who are the team members of this ?

[Arilou]

It's Claremont.

NOOOO!!!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQQm_4FdEc)

X-Legend Chris Claremont, the man who wrote your favorite X-stories, is launching New Exiles and says it will be a totally different take on the concept. And moving away from anything he's done before in the X-canon.

YOU LIEEEEE!!!!!!

[Joe Acro]

X-Legend Chris Claremont, the man who wrote your favorite X-stories, is launching New Exiles and says it will be a totally different take on the concept. And moving away from anything he's done before in the X-canon.
Why couldn't they have just done this when Bedard left? It would've been much simpler. He never would've tainted Exiles that way.

[david r]

Who are the team members of this ?

The lineup is Unknown.

[xmanson]

This is gonna turn into another bitter thread, it's so obvious.

[DDM]

I would have preferred the change from Exiles to New Exiles & keeping the original numbering with New Exiles #101. This constant rebooting is for the birds.

[Dagger]

NOOOO!!!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQQm_4FdEc)



YOU LIEEEEE!!!!!!
LOLOL!! Loves it!

And I wouldn't say that Claremont wrote my favorite X-stories. I can count way more Lobdell written ones as my favorite than Claremont's.

[Beast]

I would have preferred the change from Exiles to New Exiles & keeping the original numbering with New Exiles #101. This constant rebooting is for the birds.
A new #1 is good for sales though. Especially with a book that's been around this long.

[Brian M.]

I thought only Cronin was allowed to start Exiles threads...

Yes but this is NEW EXILES....not Exiles.

[xmanson]

A new #1 is good for sales though. Especially with a book that's been around this long.

But for how long? Claremont's name is just not worth that much nowadays, and a sales bump will fade pretty quicly, unless it's really amazing, which I doubt it will be.

[Beast]

Yes but this is NEW EXILES....not Exiles.
Peter Griffin: "Touche, Salesman."

[Pach!]

But for how long? Claremont's name is just not worth that much nowadays, and a sales bump will fade pretty quicly, unless it's really amazing, which I doubt it will be.

But a bump is exactly what the title needs right now. Maybe CC will write a stellar issue and people will continue buying New Exiles.

[Joe Acro]

Peter Griffin: "Touche, Salesman."
Crap. Claremont Exiles and a Family Guy reference in one thread? Kill me now. It ain't getting much worse.

[Dagger]

But a bump is exactly what the title needs right now. Maybe CC will write a stellar issue and people will continue buying New Exiles.
This I find highly doubtful based upon his recent work.

[DDM]

A new #1 is good for sales though. Especially with a book that's been around this long.

It's for a very short term gain, not worth rebooting.

[xmanson]

I doubt it too, but in my heart I wish he does well.


Awwww.....

[Pach!]

The last issue sold 29,092 copies. It needs a boost.

[xmanson]

They could get someone big to do the covers.

I love the TC, but his covers seem like a weird fit to the title.

[Dagger]

I doubt it too, but in my heart I wish he does well.


Awwww.....
I can say I used to be a fan of his, and still am of his older work, I've just come to the realization that he will probably never write current comics that I will probably like.

[Joe Acro]

They could get someone big to do the covers.

I love the TC, but his covers seem like a weird fit to the title.
How about just getting a steady artist?

[xmanson]

How about just getting a steady artist?

I think that will be Tom Grumett.

[Joe Acro]

I think that will be Tom Grumett.
Well, Grumett did do well with Nicieza. He might be able to improve Claremont's work.

I remain skeptical.

[xmanson]

He's a good storyteller, at least. Solid stuff.

Won't do a thing to bring sales to the book, though.

[Blade X]

But for how long? Claremont's name is just not worth that much nowadays, and a sales bump will fade pretty quicly, unless it's really amazing, which I doubt it will be.

I agree.

Believe it or not, I think that the book not selling on CC's name alone and fan expectations being low for NEW EXILES is a good thing. I'm of the old school belief that comics should be bought by fans based on the actual content and/or concept of a book and NOT because the creator is popular,critically acclaimed, or a celebrity. These books should stand or fall on their own merits, NOT because of some NAME creator.

[Joe Franklin]

It's Claremont.

True. And it's Grummett on art.

[Omega Alpha]

Yeah with his same pet characters and his same writing style I'm sure.

Who are the team members of this ?

Sage, an alt. Kitty Pride, and if Ellis doesn't want her, Psylocke are sure to be members. My bets for the others are on alternate versions of Wolverine, Jean Grey (who would be with Wolverine, of course), Storm, Nightcrawler and maybe the Thing or Reed Richards.

[Beast]

The last issue sold 29,092 copies. It needs a boost.
Still doing better than Cable & Deadpool, She-Hulk, etc.

[CmX]

Still doing better than Cable & Deadpool, She-Hulk, etc.

Cable & Deadpool is being canned, She-Hulk was canned before and the current volume is doing BAD, you can't say Exiles is doing so good it's doing better than stable titles.

[Babylon23]

Claremont and Grummet soundslike a good creative team to me. I've been waiting for Grummet to get another regular gig since Thunberbolts went ot crap.

[Faded]

I hope and I know this is dumb of me, but I truly hope that his cast is better than alternate versions of pet characters. If at least 1 of his cast I find original enough, I'll give it a chance.

I hope for either:

(A) Rachel, Psylocke, Sage, Longshot, Gateway, and Captain Britain (along with Saturn Girl as their villain); make everyone happy
(B) Blink, Nocturne, Thunderbird, and some new guys; nostalgia and a second chance to greatness (as much as I like them, I kinda hate things for the sake of nostalgia though)
(C) All new characters; fresh start

[Joe Franklin]

I hope for either:

(C) All new characters; fresh start

This is what I would like to see. Some brand new, never before seen characters.:cool:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

But a bump is exactly what the title needs right now. Maybe CC will write a stellar issue and people will continue buying New Exiles.

Maybe he will. But he's very up/down at the moment. He's not really delivered on a monthly series to me since Fantastic Four. Even though many swear by his X-Treme X-Men run.

I agree.

Believe it or not, I think that the book not selling on CC's name alone and fan expectations being low for NEW EXILES is a good thing. I'm of the old school belief that comics should be bought by fans based on the actual content and/or concept of a book and NOT because the creator is popular,critically acclaimed, or a celebrity. These books should stand or fall on their own merits, NOT because of some NAME creator.

Lets be honest here...had Claremont been knocking it down creatively he would still be popular. This is like saying "support the Cubs even when they suck for 10 years , because your true blue fans" . Ya wonder why a writer gets popular ? When his work is universally read and liked. I had no clue who Alan Heinberg was until he did a great 12 issues on Young Avengers. Then I'd follow him to his JLA arc and his Wonder Woman relaunch.

[Arilou]

Yep, alternate reality characters, children of characters, sidekicks of characters, or supporting cast members turned superheroes.

How about a teenaged heroic Victor von Doom? Or Flash Thompson with the power of Nova. Or Aunt May: Herald of Galactus or.... Yeah, you get it.

[Novaya Havoc]

WHAT THE? NOBODY HAS STARTED A THREAD FOR THE NEW SERIES CALLED "NEW EXILES"?

That's right, Exiles is ending with #100, and because YOU DEMANDED IT!! they are starting NEW EXILES!! Enjoy!!! :) :)

More like BECAUSE CC DEMANDED IT because he played the "I Wrote the Dark Phoenix Saga!!!" card.

I give it 13 issues AT MOST.

A relaunch on Exiles won't work. They're basically just letting CC reboot the Exiles so fans of the classic stuff can't bitch about how it's ruined.

Now it can just be "CC's 18th chance at his own title."

And with Sage in the cast, it will fail.

[Omega Alpha]

Still doing better than Cable & Deadpool, She-Hulk, etc.

And both books are either getting canceled or getting new writers. Same thing happened to NEX.

[Novaya Havoc]

Still doing better than Cable & Deadpool, She-Hulk, etc.


Cable and Deadpool: SLATED FOR CANCELLATION
She Hulk: REGIME CHANGE

Hell, it only did slightly better (3,000 copies or so) more than a SHANNA THE SHE DEVIL miniseries-solo this month. The only X-Title Exiles does better than is New Excalibur (regime change; reboot to just "Excalibur". Trust.) and X-Men: First Class. And I doubt Marvel has astronomical sales expectations for First Class.

Exiles will continue to tank. There's no reason to keep it, unless they really have faith in the concept, and in that case, they should change the creative team (ala She-Hulk).

I'm totally guesstimating that they're allowing CC to launch it so he can mold it in his own ROMACROSSTIME image (starring Sage!) so it can avoid the "you ruined Blink/all of old Exiles" stigma and fail on its own merit.

Then they can use it as grounds to not renew his exclusive contract.

Trust.

[Joe Franklin]

And with Sage in the cast, it will fail.

:eek:

I hope Sage is not in the book. I won't buy it if Sage is in it.:(

[CmX]

Excalibur vol. 3 was relaunched and replaced by NEX and look at how this book has crashed and burned?

I dont' see Exiles vol. 2 doing very well or making it past it's 20's much like NEX. Especially if it's going to be radically different from what made Exiles so interesting and unique as a title.

[Babylon23]

I give it 13 issues AT MOST.

Is that like the 8 issues you gave NEX. Or the 12 issues you gave NEX. Or the 18 issues you gave NEX...

[CmX]

Is that like the 8 issues you gave NEX. Or the 12 issues you gave NEX. Or the 18 issues you gave NEX...

LOL He wasn't that far off! haha It's still getting canned that was his whole point.

[Omega Alpha]

Is that like the 8 issues you gave NEX. Or the 12 issues you gave NEX. Or the 18 issues you gave NEX...

Yeah, he was completely wrong. NEX lasted 200 issues.

[jester1436]

I am not at all pleased.

I hate the adjective "New" in conjunction with Claremont books when it's the same old mess.

[Blade X]

Maybe he will. But he's very up/down at the moment. He's not really delivered on a monthly series to me since Fantastic Four. Even though many swear by his X-Treme X-Men run.



Lets be honest here...had Claremont been knocking it down creatively he would still be popular. This is like saying "support the Cubs even when they suck for 10 years , because your true blue fans" . Ya wonder why a writer gets popular ? When his work is universally read and liked. I had no clue who Alan Heinberg was until he did a great 12 issues on Young Avengers. Then I'd follow him to his JLA arc and his Wonder Woman relaunch.

I also liked CC's FF run.

How many writers work is actually universally read and liked? Remember, you can always find people out there who hate the work of even the most popular writer. Just because you are willing to buy everything Alan Heinberg writes, DOES NOT mean everyone else is willing to do the same thing. There are a LOT of popular and/or critically acclaimed comic writers who have seen many of their books sell like crap and be canceled. In MOST cases, it's less about WHO the writer is and more about the FINAL PRODUCT. I'm a Claremont fan, but I sure as hell won't follow him to every book he writes. If he's writing a character or a genre that I'm not a fan of, I won't read that book. No matter how good I hear that book MIGHT be.

[Gibbering Fool]

Dammit. I've hated what Claremont's been doing with this title but I hung on for the hopes it might improve or a new writer might get put on board.

With claremont getting the Boot from New Excalibur I get the strong feeling that he's going to carry all his pet characters and plot threads over the New Exiles. New Exiels will most likely be a captain Britain Corps Style event with the Exiles getting orders from Roma to heal "Crosstime" (*its the multiverse Claremont!) with Sage acting as their new Heather.

[Blade X]

More like BECAUSE CC DEMANDED IT because he played the "I Wrote the Dark Phoenix Saga!!!" card.

I give it 13 issues AT MOST.

A relaunch on Exiles won't work. They're basically just letting CC reboot the Exiles so fans of the classic stuff can't bitch about how it's ruined.

And with Sage in the cast, it will fail.

1. CC has NEVER had ANY pull or power to DEMAND anything from Marvel. Especially under the Quesada regime.

2. I'll give it 50 issues with or without CC writing it.

3. The reason they are relaunching EXILES is because the book has been SLOWLY shedding readers over the last 2 or 3 years. The book was slowly shedding readers BEFORE CC came onto the book. A FACT that SOME CC bashers can't bring themselves to admit.

4. I think that there is a 50/50 chance that Sage MIGHT be a part of this new team.

[Blade X]

Dammit. I've hated what Claremont's been doing with this title but I hung on for the hopes it might improve or a new writer might get put on board.

With claremont getting the Boot from New Excalibur I get the strong feeling that he's going to carry all his pet characters and plot threads over the New Exiles. New Exiels will most likely be a captain Britain Corps Style event with the Exiles getting orders from Roma to heal "Crosstime" (*its the multiverse Claremont!) with Sage acting as their new Heather.

Yep, I think that this will most likely be the basic premise of this book. Which kind of makes sense when you think about it.

[Nachturne]

Yep, I think that this will most likely be the basic premise of this book. Which kind of makes sense when you think about it.

After the frontal lobotomy.

[CmX]

1. CC has NEVER had ANY pull or power to DEMAND anything from Marvel. Especially under the Quesada regime.

2. I'll give it 50 issues with or without CC writing it.

3. The reason they are relaunching EXILES is because the book has been SLOWLY shedding readers over the last 2 or 3 years. The book was slowly shedding readers BEFORE CC came onto the book. A FACT that SOME CC bashers can't bring themselves to admit.

4. I think that there is a 50/50 chance that Sage MIGHT be a part of this new team.

Uh no, Exiles has very consistent sales for YEARS, what a coincidence CC's arrival on the ttile has really drastically brought down the sales. Something CC fans are avoiding to admit.

[Blade X]

Uh no, Exiles has very consistent sales for YEARS, what a coincidence CC's arrival on the ttile has really drastically brought down the sales. Something CC fans are avoiding to admit.

Uh no, you are wrong. Sales on EXILES have been SLOWLY dropping for the last 2 or 3 years REGARDLESS of who was writing the book.

[Syzygy]

:eek:

I hope Sage is not in the book. I won't buy it if Sage is in it.:(

God bless you, my son!

There is a place reserved in Heaven for those such as yourself!

[CmX]

Uh no, you are wrong. Sales on EXILES have been SLOWLY dropping for the last 2 or 3 years REGARDLESS of who was writing the book.

Yeah SLOWLY is the freak'n keyword here, but look at how FAST they've dropped since CC debuted on the damn title. Geez admit it, CC sunk this title.

[Novaya Havoc]

Is that like the 8 issues you gave NEX. Or the 12 issues you gave NEX. Or the 18 issues you gave NEX...

Hey. Most of those were Tieri flukes.

If you only count the solo-Claremont issues, what do you get?

[Dr. Chaos]

There still better be some sweet Spider-Man 2099 action.

Thats all I'm going to say about that.

(Don't **** with me, Claremont, I'm one of the three people on here that still enjoy your work)

[Karl H]

Is this where the male mystique that has been mentionned will pop up?

Personally I'd actually like to see more original characters, like, you know, when Exiles started and was good! Doubt we'll get it but who knows.

[jarrod]

Yeah, hopefully there's no 616ers. Betsy and Brian need to go home.

Actually, outside them and Dazz, are there any 616ers in the Die by the Sword mini? I know Juggs is gone already (via WWH X-Men), but is Wisdom confirmed there?

[Karl H]

Yeah, hopefully there's no 616ers. Betsy and Brian need to go home.

Actually, outside them and Dazz, are there any 616ers in the Die by the Sword mini? I know Juggs is gone already (via WWH X-Men), but is Wisdom confirmed there?

I don't think so.

[jarrod]

I don't think so.
Oh, forgot about Sage. So four 616ers for sure, plus maybe Wisdom.

I wonder if Shadow Jean and Bobby will make it?

[jade_nova]

This series is where will be Claremont shall finish off all his story lines. Has anyone else noticed the trend in Marvel to include "new" in titles nowadays?

[streator]

i won't be picking this up, regardless of who is in the cast and who is penciling the series.

i liked new excalibur's cast and michael ryan, but after dropping that title at issue 9 i'm done giving a cc book another chance.

[Keith_Martineau]

Ya wonder why a writer gets popular ? When his work is universally read and liked. I had no clue who Alan Heinberg was until he did a great 12 issues on Young Avengers. Then I'd follow him to his JLA arc and his Wonder Woman relaunch.

Really? Universally liked? Then how come everyone around HERE hates Bendis, yet he's one of the highest selling writers around right now?

[Keith_Martineau]

I really, really hope it's true what he's saying about doing stuff thats never been done in Exiles, and by him before. That means I hope he DOESN'T bring in Sage, and I hope he gets rid of Psylocke, and doesn't use other pet characters.

I'd be perfectly happy for him to renew the concept, tell new stories, and build new characters. All doing so while trying desperately to NOT fall into is usual writing ticks.

But we'll just have to see.

[Karl H]

Really? Universally liked? Then how come everyone around HERE hates Bendis, yet he's one of the highest selling writers around right now?

*raises hand*

I think Bendis is excellent. Haters are just louder than raters.

[Beast]

*raises hand*

I think Bendis is excellent. Haters are just louder than raters.
Exactly. It's common that those are always the loudest and most vocal voices.

[MartinRedmond]

Yeah with his same pet characters and his same writing style I'm sure.

Who are the team members of this ?

Are you talking about Ellis or Chris? Cause Ellis' been writing the exact same 3 characters for over 10 years.

[Jmd211]

The way i see it in Exiles:

Captain Britain (finally looking for Megan, i mean you married her now there is nothing mentioning her anymore)
Psylocke (CC just brought her in from Uncanny, she is not going anywhere)
Sage (we all know this is going to happen :( , has she been written by anyone else then CC? Except for the 2-3 issues from Morrison)

Now the rest i am not sure:

TJ and Thunderbird prob go to Exiles (i thought i heard Nocturne was confirmed as going back to Exiles, and TB will follow)
Longshot and Dazzler (love it if Longshot stayed in Exiles, i always felt this was the best title for him. Dazzler, prob stay in 616)
Wisdom (Cornell is keeping him b/c of his mini)
Blink (Exiles is her book, but for some reason i feel CC will leave her in 616)
Sabretooth and Spidey 2099 (can;t see Miguel going to 616 w/ Peter running around. Sabretooth not sure, prob going with Blink, not going to kill the better 616 to have the hero from AOA coming to 616. Exiles)

So Exiles should be:
1. Cap Britain
2. Psylocke
3. Nocturne
4. Thunderbird
5. Longshot
6. Sage
7. Spider-man 2099
8. Sabretooth (not sure)
9. Cat

Way too many 616 if this is the logical way to go.

[jarrod]

I'd say Claremont should probably just use Cat as his new POV/pet character and send everyone else home. Then start from the ground up for the New Exiles.

[Supajoe]

Yeah with his same pet characters and his same writing style I'm sure.


can we hold bendis to the same 'pet character' standard with jessica jones and luke cage?

[Pach!]

can we hold bendis to the same 'pet character' standard with jessica jones and luke cage?
What does Bendis have to do with this thread?

[Dagger]

What does Bendis have to do with this thread?
Because he does alot of the same stuff CC does, but his books sell like hot cakes. And they're mostly good to excellent, as apposed to poor to mediocre.

[KidNewWave]

Uh no, you are wrong. Sales on EXILES have been SLOWLY dropping for the last 2 or 3 years REGARDLESS of who was writing the book.

I THINK THE REGARDLESS OF WHO WAS WRITING THE BOOK BEGAN WITH

TONY BEDARD

Who wrote the book from issue #46-#89 till Claremont took over!

6-7 issues isn't enough to undo 43 issues of the most terrible garbage I've ever read in comics!

[Novaya Havoc]

I THINK THE REGARDLESS OF WHO WAS WRITING THE BOOK BEGAN WITH

TONY BEDARD

Who wrote the book from issue #46-#89 till Claremont took over!

6-7 issues isn't enough to undo 43 issues of the most terrible garbage I've ever read in comics!

? All of Bedard wasn't bad. It wasn't until World Tour that it took a nosedive in quality.

I loved Hyperion Round 2 and the Namora issues. Well, I could have done without the random Kulan Gath arc, but whateva -- it lead to Tanaraq which was a cool idea (albeit, neutered Heather).

It was after that with Proteus, Beak, Angel, and then Mz. PP that I was like "ooookay. Come again?"

[jester1436]

There's a decent parallel, what with Bendis coming on Avengers, destroying the Avengers and rebooting them as the New Avengers.

Of course, Claremont did the same the moment he got on the book and now he's rebooting them as the New Exiles.

Perhaps the New Exiles team will include Spider-Man 2099, Jessica Drew: Agent of SHIELD, Lucretia Cage, Teen Iron Man, and Captain Ameriwolf.

Or, it'll be Sage, Psylocke, Cat, Mystic, Nocturne, Thunderbird and Albion.

[david r]

X-Treme Exiles

[Pach!]

X-Treme Exiles

But then people might relate it to X-treme X-men and I'm not sure if that would help with sales which I think it's what they're going for with the relaunch.

[Novaya Havoc]

X-Treme Exiles

For the 70th time, that is not cool. That's not even lukewarm.

[jarrod]

But then people might relate it to X-treme X-men and I'm not sure if that would help with sales which I think it's what they're going for with the relaunch.
Xtreme sold well though... far better than any satellite Xbooks do these days.


Honestly, I think it'd probably help more than "New Exiles". They could even have Sal do covers to trick the kids into buying it. :D

[Oliverhannah]

Chris must not left Blink in 616, if he does it so Blink will b in danger because she is a member of this bloodline, since another surviving member of Clan Akkaba had the last name Ferguson..

I would to love see Chamber n Blink hooked up teehee ;)

[Phil Hunn]

:eek:

I hope Sage is not in the book. I won't buy it if Sage is in it.:(

Well, you'll be saving money, then. I could bet you... oh, I don't know, a million bags of Doritos... that Sage will follow CC into this new book.

I am not at all pleased.

I hate the adjective "New" in conjunction with Claremont books when it's the same old mess.

Over the years I've been festering on this open sore of a planet, I've learned that pretty much anything with "The New Adventures Of..." in front of it will stink.

Oh, forgot about Sage. So four 616ers for sure, plus maybe Wisdom.

I wonder if Shadow Jean and Bobby will make it?

Shadow Jean is a definite possibility.

X-Treme Exiles

... no. Just... no.

[Dusty.]

Oh, goodness...the same old tired copy and paste complaints about CC. I am glad others don't do MY thinking.

Claremont and Grummett will be a fine choice. Both are solid (despite what CC bashers say...) I understand the reboot from a business perspective, and seriously, does the numbering matter anymore since they killed that? I LOVED when the numbering counted, I just realize holding onto that is futile.

[jester1436]

Yes, none of us truly find genuine fault in Claremont's work, it simply gives us perverse pleasure in bashing a sweet old man. His books are faboo.

[Babylon23]

Hey. Most of those were Tieri flukes.

If you only count the solo-Claremont issues, what do you get?

A book that hasn't been cancelled and isn't getting cancelled any time soon. A book that lasted through several god-awful Tieri issues and continued to sell. A book that's about to get a new creative team that will continue to tell tales about the team members..

Either way, it wasn't cancelled at any point despite your predictions.

? All of Bedard wasn't bad. It wasn't until World Tour that it took a nosedive in quality.

For the most part I agree, although I didn't think much of his Timebreakers explanation either. I guess I was hoping for something bigger and more interesting.

I loved Hyperion Round 2 and the Namora issues. Well, I could have done without the random Kulan Gath arc, but whateva -- it lead to Tanaraq which was a cool idea (albeit, neutered Heather).

It was after that with Proteus, Beak, Angel, and then Mz. PP that I was like "ooookay. Come again?"

Totally agree. World Tour was an interesting concept that was pretty poorly executed. I had high expectations for this story, being a fan of many of the worlds the Exiles were visiting.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Theyre starting a new one? I didn't see that anywhere...but thats cool. I wonder what will happen to Nocturne...I love her....:(

[Beast]

Theyre starting a new one? I didn't see that anywhere...but thats cool. I wonder what will happen to Nocturne...I love her....:(
The cover for Exiles #100 suggests that Nocturne and Thunderbird are leaving together. And Blink likewise is going to depart. So looks like we might get a fairly clean slate from the reboot.

[CmX]

The cover for Exiles #100 suggests that Nocturne and Thunderbird are leaving together. And Blink likewise is going to depart. So looks like we might get a fairly clean slate from the reboot.

CC stated she would be member of the team again, so no TJ isn't leaving.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Claremont & Grummet seem a great team to me.

[Blade X]

Yeah SLOWLY is the freak'n keyword here, but look at how FAST they've dropped since CC debuted on the damn title. Geez admit it, CC sunk this title.

Dude, the book is still loosing sales at about the same SLOW rate it has been for the last 2 or 3 years. CC DID NOT sink this book, it was sinking before CC came onto it.

[bjtrdff]

I just find it weird that they're retitling the series. The team has changed a million times before, so it's not necessary.

Althought at the same time, a relaunch of sorts could be a sexy way to increase the profile and interest in/of the book. It just seems more hilarious and weird with a series with a constantly changing team.

[Omega Alpha]

Dude, the book is still loosing sales at about the same SLOW rate it has been for the last 2 or 3 years. CC DID NOT sink this book, it was sinking before CC came onto it.

That's true, Bedard was the one that killed the book. CC taking over did not made things better, though.

[Blade X]

Are you talking about Ellis or Chris? Cause Ellis' been writing the exact same 3 characters for over 10 years.

LOL

You are so right about Ellis. Of course MANY fans who post on message boards and bash CC for doing the same thing, seem to either forget or refuse to admit that many current popular and critically acclaim writers do the exact same thing that they bash CC for doing.

That being said, I don't have a problem with ANY writer writing the same archetype characters throughout their careers.

[Beast]

CC stated she would be member of the team again, so no TJ isn't leaving.
No, he said she was coming back to Exiles. Doesn't mean she's actually going to stay.

[Nachturne]

The cover for Exiles #100 suggests that Nocturne and Thunderbird are leaving together. And Blink likewise is going to depart. So looks like we might get a fairly clean slate from the reboot.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! BEST NEWS EVER!!!!!!!!

<3

I'm not even sarcastic. I'm so happy!!!!

[Blade X]

CC taking over did not made things better, though.

You are absolutely RIGHT about that.

[CmX]

Dude, the book is still loosing sales at about the same SLOW rate it has been for the last 2 or 3 years. CC DID NOT sink this book, it was sinking before CC came onto it.

You totally missed my point. I admit the sales haven't been the greatest, but they've been very steady, look at the drastic drop since his debut.

[CmX]

No, he said she was coming back to Exiles. Doesn't mean she's actually going to stay.

Look at the cover. It features all the original members that are still active. It's more of a homage to them, then actually depicting them leaving. Although I seriously wouldn't doubt if CC planned on dropping Blink and eventually just giving TJ and TBird a happy ending later on in the next volume.

[Jesse Newcomb]

Some sales statistics..........

82. EXILES
07/01 Exiles #2 - 52,389
07/02 Exiles #15 - 38,955
07/03 Exiles #29 - 40,696
07/04 Exiles #49 - 37,184
07/05 Exiles #66 - 34,092
=====
07/06 Exiles #84 - 32,866 ( -0.8%)
08/06 Exiles #85 - 33,978 ( +3.4%)
09/06 Exiles #86 - 33,080 ( -2.6%)
10/06 Exiles #87 - 31,946 ( -3.4%)
11/06 Exiles #88 - 30,928 ( -3.2%)
12/06 Exiles #89 - 36,880 (+19.2%)
01/07 Exiles #90 - 31,595 (-14.3%)
02/07 Exiles #91 - 31,712 ( +0.4%)
03/07 Exiles #92 - 30,296 ( -4.5%)
04/07 Exiles #93 - 30,697 ( +1.3%)
05/07 Exiles #94 - 30,735 ( +0.1%)
06/07 Exiles #95 - 30,612 ( -0.4%)
07/07 Exiles #96 - 30,245 ( -1.2%)
6 mnth ( -4.3%)
1 year ( -8.0%)
2 year (-11.3%)
3 year (-18.7%)
4 year (-25.7%)

86. NEW EXCALIBUR
07/06 New Excalibur #9 - 36,466 ( -2.6%)
08/06 New Excalibur #10 - 36,108 ( -1.0%)
09/06 New Excalibur #11 - 34,104 ( -5.6%)
10/06 New Excalibur #12 - 33,082 ( -3.0%)
11/06 New Excalibur #13 - 32,173 ( -2.7%)
12/06 New Excalibur #14 - 31,318 ( -2.7%)
01/07 New Excalibur #15 - 30,827 ( -1.6%)
02/07 New Excalibur #16 - 30,356 ( -1.5%)
02/07 New Excalibur #17 - 30,073 ( -0.9%)
03/07 —
04/07 New Excalibur #18 - 29,617 ( -1.5%)
04/07 New Excalibur #19 - 29,014 ( -2.0%)
05/07 New Excalibur #20 - 28,796 ( -0.8%)
06/07 —
07/07 New Excalibur #21 - 28,930 ( +0.5%)
6 mnth ( -6.2%)
1 year (-20.7%)

Exiles 90 experienced a 14% decrease................

[Babylon23]

Exiles 90 experienced a 14% decrease................

True, but there was also a spike in sales of 6,000 copies for issue 89, so saying that sales dropped dramatically when Claremont took over isn't entirely accurate. If you look at the figures on 87 and 88, it shows that there hasn't actually been a big drop off in numbers at all, and that issue 90 actually sold more copies than 87 and 88.

Does anybody know why 89 spiked so much?

[CmX]

True, but there was also a spike in sales of 6,000 copies for issue 89, so saying that sales dropped dramatically when Claremont took over isn't entirely accurate. If you look at the figures on 87 and 88, it shows that there hasn't actually been a big drop off in numbers at all, and that issue 90 actually sold more copies than 87 and 88.

Does anybody know why 89 spiked so much?

Because people knew that was the very last issue of Exiles that anybody would care about. I mean probably. :P

[Patrion]

While I feel sad that the book has to be relaunched, whatever the reason, I am intrigued about the possible new face that could be coming. I would really like to see at least a few current members, at least one original, on the new team. This is the line up I'd like to see.

New Exiles
Nocturne: She take over as the leader of the group to allow Blink the opportunity to have a calmer life with the X-Men from Mimic's Earth.
Thunderbird: He is to TJ as Sabes was to Blink, BTW: Sabertooth dies protecting Blink in the crossover with New Excalibur, but really switched places with Meggan to allow her freedom, leaving him open to possibly being used in the future.
Shadowcat: A) She seems to have a good amount of potential and B) it would be a huge waste to intro her and then abandon her in less then 15 issues.
Psylocke: She would stay with the team to be a representative of the newly reestablished Cap. Britain Corp, happens in the crossover, and would be in the traditional colors of the corp. All in all, the resident powerhouse.

Plus two or three newcomers and the New Exiles would be set for me!

Oh, and to those wondering, Longshot stayed with Dazzler in the 616 and Morph "dies" by being pushed into the crack that Meggan was in by Sabretooth, because Proteus finally overtakes his mind.

So, as you can see, I have thought about this far too much and far too long. Hopefully the relaunch is all the it's being hyped up to be...

[steve2275]

Yeah with his same pet characters and his same writing style I'm sure.

Who are the team members of this ?
prolly the survivors of X-Men: Die By The Sword

[Oliverhannah]

While I feel sad that the book has to be relaunched, whatever the reason, I am intrigued about the possible new face that could be coming. I would really like to see at least a few current members, at least one original, on the new team. This is the line up I'd like to see.

New Exiles
Nocturne: She take over as the leader of the group to allow Blink the opportunity to have a calmer life with the X-Men from Mimic's Earth.
Thunderbird: He is to TJ as Sabes was to Blink, BTW: Sabertooth dies protecting Blink in the crossover with New Excalibur, but really switched places with Meggan to allow her freedom, leaving him open to possibly being used in the future.
Shadowcat: A) She seems to have a good amount of potential and B) it would be a huge waste to intro her and then abandon her in less then 15 issues.
Psylocke: She would stay with the team to be a representative of the newly reestablished Cap. Britain Corp, happens in the crossover, and would be in the traditional colors of the corp. All in all, the resident powerhouse.

Plus two or three newcomers and the New Exiles would be set for me!

Oh, and to those wondering, Longshot stayed with Dazzler in the 616 and Morph "dies" by being pushed into the crack that Meggan was in by Sabretooth, because Proteus finally overtakes his mind.

So, as you can see, I have thought about this far too much and far too long. Hopefully the relaunch is all the it's being hyped up to be...


Hmmm not bad!

I like ur idea abt Meggan n Sabertooth switch place..

I doubt Psylocke will kill Morph cos Japser set Proteus free from Morph's mind so Psylocke have to chance kill him for good.

I wonder what abt Dark Jean, will she join the Exiles? :eek:

I think Chris want Blink stay in 616 cos they have big role storyline for her.
And Lonshot stay in 616 with dazzler cos they have big storyline abt Mojoverse.

NEW EXILES
Blink - Nocturne
Sabretooth - T-Bird
Spidey - Spidey
Morph - Male Mystique
Psylocke - Cat
Longshot - Dark Jean?

[ImpulseUCF]

Here's my take on Exiles... the book has been dead since the Crystal Palace reveal. Something had to be done. Whether or not this is it remains to be seen.

Bedard killed the book by ripping out the core concept and failing to replace it with anything. After the Crystal Palace reveal the book has been basically treading water. The ambiguity of the Timebroker's true origins/status/purpose and his motivations created a much-needed tension in the series. By spoiling the secret and not replacing it with something else, there is basically very little dramatic tension left in the series. Sure, they can threaten the characters and various AUs, but without something driving them, without something to work toward and struggle against, it all gets repetitive and pointless. Once the core mystery and driving force of the series was revealed, it was time to either end the series or replace it with something new. Currently, it's like wrapping up all the major plot points of a TV series but keeping it on the air for the sake of ratings and ad revenue with no real drive or purpose. It rings hollow and half-assed on TV, and the same is true here.

Chris Claremont walked into a mess that he did not create and that needs fixing. I can't say if I will like what he does, but something needs to be done, so in that sense I'm glad for the reboot. I'm hoping it's a dramatic departure and doesn't try to hold onto the few shattered fragments of the initial conception of the series because it is long dead. I wish he would retire the entire cast and just do his new thing. I mean, he's going to do what he wants, anyway, so at least don't drag the characters I like along with it. :p

[KidNewWave]

Here's my take on Exiles... the book has been dead since the Crystal Palace reveal. Bedard killed the book by ripping out the core concept and failing to replace it with anything. After the Crystal Palace reveal the book has been basically treading water. The ambiguity of the Timebroker's true origins/status/purpose and his motivations created a much-needed tension in the series. By spoiling the secret and not replacing it with something else, there is basically very little dramatic tension left in the series.

HERE HERE!

Add on top of that that Bedard basically raped all the characters he was using. Blink, Sabretooth, and Morph were basically brought over from AoA, due to fan popularity.
Lobdell did such a great job writing these characters in Astonishing (basically 4 issues) but now, to me, these characters are watered down caricatures.

Changed MIMIC from badass leader to Mr. Nice Guy (deformed him/ then offed him!)
Pussycat SABRETOOTH
De-Powered SASQUACH
PROTEUS as MIMIC
NAMORA replaced Nocturne
BEAK
POWER PRINCESS <barf>
SPIDEY 2099 (Spiderman is the New Wolverine)
The Cheese Danish Issue (WTF????)
Fing Fang Foom meets the Power Rangers........
The World Tour
LONGSHOT.....
the list goes on and on................

I think the editors must have been spending their "Exiles" time smoking crack, as they let the book continue on this downward spiral for over 3 years!

I wait with baited breath for the crossover!

[ImpulseUCF]

Hey, now... don't hate on The Cheese Danish issue. That was one of the best of the series! Bedard had a few moments of brilliance, a lot of mediocrity, and a lot of series-ruining garbage.

[Novaya Havoc]

Namora was fabulous. Don't hate.

Hate on Beak all you want, though.

[Faded]

Namora was fabulous. Don't hate.

Hate on Beak all you want, though.

She really was.

Those early Bedard issues read so much better now then they did at the time (and the art is AMAZING. I never noticed until you had RANDOMNAMORALOVE one month).

[Novaya Havoc]

She really was.

Those early Bedard issues read so much better now then they did at the time (and the art is AMAZING. I never noticed until you had RANDOMNAMORALOVE one month).

I still do have RandomNamora love. I may bring back the Imperius Regina! It's one of my fave avatars I've done.

[Beast]

Namora was a terrible character. Right up there with Sugar Man.

Talk about telegraphing which character was leaving. "Let's introduce another blue elfish girl."

[Deus ex Chris]

I still do have RandomNamora love. I may bring back the Imperius Regina! It's one of my fave avatars I've done.
You should definitely bring it back. Namora is easily one of my favorite Exiles.

[Novaya Havoc]

Talk about telegraphing which character was leaving. "Let's introduce another blue elfish girl."

Uh, except they had absolutely nothing in common. And Atlanteans are blue.

[Phil Hunn]

Oh, goodness...the same old tired copy and paste complaints about CC. I am glad others don't do MY thinking.

Others don't do my thinking, either. I like Claremont as a person (he's unquestionably a lovely chap), but his current work just doesn't cut the mustard as far as I'm concerned.

LOL

You are so right about Ellis. Of course MANY fans who post on message boards and bash CC for doing the same thing, seem to either forget or refuse to admit that many current popular and critically acclaim writers do the exact same thing that they bash CC for doing.

Yes, Warren Ellis has frequently had a chain-smoking badass in a trenchcoat show up in his titles, and Bendis is very fond of using the same sort of dialogue tics for a lot of his characters, but they are generally not in the business of falling back on the same limited number of favourite plots (like, oh, say... mind-control, slavery and warrior women) when the chips are down.

Namora was fabulous. Don't hate.

Hate on Beak all you want, though.

Beak was great. One of the few things I liked about Morrison's run, so he was.

Namora was a terrible character. Right up there with Sugar Man.

Bite thy tongue, heathen. Sugar Man = awesome.

[Babylon23]

Bedard killed the book by ripping out the core concept and failing to replace it with anything. After the Crystal Palace reveal the book has been basically treading water. The ambiguity of the Timebroker's true origins/status/purpose and his motivations created a much-needed tension in the series. By spoiling the secret and not replacing it with something else, there is basically very little dramatic tension left in the series.

Totally agree. This was very much the turning point for the book IMO.

[Joe Acro]

A potentially relevant question, when was Claremont originally slated to take over?

[Beast]

A potentially relevant question, when was Claremont originally slated to take over?
Before he took sick? It was supposed to be Exiles #84.

Tony Bedard stayed on for 6 more issues and an Annual before CC took over at #90.

[Faded]

I still do have RandomNamora love. I may bring back the Imperius Regina! It's one of my fave avatars I've done.

It was one of the best avatars EVER.

[Titanium]

I'm very bothered by the concept New Exiles.

Unless it brings in a new group of reality tossed characters summoned to fix reality by the time broker that are really bugs in a crystal palace.


This was one of my favorite books until Claremont got into it and cut out the progressing story completely to throw in Captain Britain Corps stuff and Psylocke spotlighting.

There was a lot of promise with the Exiles taking over the crystal palace. After years of being tossed around without control over their lives they finally got the answers they were after and the option of actually going home if they wanted. I was really looking forward to some great world hopping stories with a bigger rotating cast, but then Psylocke shows up, the bugs disappear, Heather leaves, and the exiles destroy two realities. Without hearing anything about the consequences.


I just want my classic reality hopping adventures back.

[xmanson]

What is the concept of New Exiles?

[Blade X]

Does anybody know why 89 spiked so much?

Shipping problems caused the spike for issue #89. IIRC, EXILES #89 did not ship to west coast stores on the day that the book was released. I believe (and I could be wrong) that this caused the book to be very rare, which resulted in dealers on the west coast placing high reorders for that issue.

[Blade X]

You totally missed my point. I admit the sales haven't been the greatest, but they've been very steady, look at the drastic drop since his debut.

As you can see from the sales figures, there was no drastic sales drop.

[Blade X]

Here's who I would like to see be the new roster for NEW EXILES.

Blink
Nocturne
Thunderbird
Maxam
Nth Man
Spider-Man 2099
Justice (New Universe)
Lockdown
Rosetta Stone
Death's Head (the original)
Kylun
Feron
Spyke (from X-MEN EVOLUTION)
Caldonia
Haywire
Longshot
Morph (minus that Proteus crap)

As you can all see, my list is comprised MOSTLY of lesser known and/or less popular characters.

[Omega Alpha]

Here's who I would like to see be the new roster for NEW EXILES.

Blink
Nocturne
Thunderbird
Maxam
Nth Man
Spider-Man 2099
Justice (New Universe)
Lockdown
Rosetta Stone
Death's Head (the original)
Kylun
Feron
Spyke (from X-MEN EVOLUTION)
Caldonia
Haywire
Longshot

As you can all see, my list is comprised MOSTLY of lesser known and/or less popular characters.

You won't see any of them, except Nocturne.

[jester1436]

You won't see any of them, except Nocturne.

I dunno, Lockdown, Caledonia and Rosetta Stone are Claremont's alt. reality pets from Fantastic Four, I don't think they're all that unlikely.

[Novaya Havoc]

As you can see from the sales figures, there was no drastic sales drop.

But it still hit the 20s, with no hopes of recovery. And no critical acclaim.

NEX hasn't sold that much worse than Exiles under CC, but it's still had one thing in common -- consistently crappy reviews.

New Exiles will last a hot 10 minutes without the old school Exiles fanbase and anything remotely creative.

CC has to DAZZLE. And since he's proved time and time again he cannot even dazzle with Dazzler, I maintain the new launch will last a not-so-hot 13 issues at most.

[Novaya Havoc]

Here's who I would like to see be the new roster for NEW EXILES.

Blink
Nocturne
Thunderbird
Maxam
Nth Man
Spider-Man 2099
Justice (New Universe)
Lockdown
Rosetta Stone
Death's Head (the original)
Kylun
Feron
Spyke (from X-MEN EVOLUTION)
Caldonia
Haywire
Longshot

As you can all see, my list is comprised MOSTLY of lesser known and/or less popular characters.

My response to this list:

Blink -- CC will drop her like it's not hot.
Nocturne -- Maybe, but then he'll have the "YOU DON'T GET IT!" stigma forever.
Thunderbird -- Ditto.
Maxam -- WHO?!
Nth Man -- WTF WHO??!?!?!?
Spider-Man 2099 -- I doubt it. He'll relaunch with someone else. Holy SHOCK!
Justice (New Universe) -- Not likely. New Universe = Shooter. CC = Hates Shooter.
Lockdown -- WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE!?!?
Rosetta Stone -- NO!! AGAIN: WHO?!?!?!?!
Death's Head (the original) -- Jesus. Please just say Namor or something.
Kylun -- LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL... no.
Feron -- This is Exiles, not Excalibur. Repeat the lolz.
Spyke (from X-MEN EVOLUTION) -- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I post my LOL reaction it will crash the CBR server.
Caldonia -- Oh, for the love of God, you haven't even included Sage yet. Stop naming these people.
Haywire -- .... SAGE.
Longshot -- Maybe, but c'mon. That would be the only thing this would have going for it.

That cast is total crystal meth.

[d newton]

And since he's proved time and time again he cannot even dazzle with Dazzler, I maintain the new launch will last a not-so-hot 13 issues at most.
He's doing a far better job with her than most writers would! ;)

[Novaya Havoc]

He's doing a far better job with her than most writers would! ;)

Don't troll me, foo. Anyone who's read the solo knows otherwise, for they are educated.

Go back to sending me vicious e-mails on my blog posts.

[jester1436]

He's doing a far better job with her than most writers would! ;)

Snap.... and PUNISH!

Honestly, quit dangling the worm. It's not even a competent dig.

[d newton]

Don't troll me, foo. Anyone who's read the solo knows otherwise, for they are educated.
Anybody who uses quotes from The A-Team has no idea what they're talking about. And you really think her solo book sold more than her appearences in Uncanny?

[Novaya Havoc]

Snap.... and PUNISH!


This is for hons my new fave phrase! <3

[jester1436]

Anybody who uses quotes from The A-Team has no idea what they're talking about. And you really think her solo book sold more than her appearences in Uncanny?

What do sales have to do with someone writing her better than Claremont? Sales are not evidence of quality.

You bait people who are critical of Claremont but everytime, your arguments are swiss cheese. You're barely coherent.

[d newton]

This is gonna turn into another bitter thread, it's so obvious.
And I was right. :D

[Babylon23]

But it still hit the 20s, with no hopes of recovery. And no critical acclaim.

According to the figures above, Exiles 97 is still sitting slightly above 30,000. Did the subsequent issues fall below this? Have there been subsequent issues (I read the book in trade)?

As for critical acclaim, Next Wave had it but never sold well, as did Ant-Man. JLA has been panned but is DC's best-selling book. Unfortunately, acclaim doesn't equal sales.

Exiles was still selling reasonably well under Claremont. Certainly well above cancellation levels. There wasn't a major drop off between Bedard nad Claremont.

I maintain the new launch will last a not-so-hot 13 issues at most.

This isn't derogatory, I'm genuinely interested in your answer: Is 13 a random number that you're attributing to the book (as with NEX), or is there something you feel about the relaunch that will lead it to fail so miserably?

Sales would have to hit 20,000 of less for the book to be cancelled so quickly. None of Claremont's recent books have hit such low sales figures as to be cancelled. Both Exiles and NEX are sitting around the 25,000 - 30,000 mark. You have to assume that the bulk of that readership are the Claremont faithful (I don't think disgruntled Dazzler fans like yourself or Captain Britain fans like me number that highly). I'd assume that most of them will follow Claremont onto New Exiles. There will probably be higher sales for the first issue, which should drop off to about NEX levels after a few issues. I can see the book sitting around the 25,000-30,000 mark once things level off.

[Dagger]

Anybody who uses quotes from The A-Team has no idea what they're talking about. And you really think her solo book sold more than her appearences in Uncanny?
WTF is this supposed to mean?

Fact: Solos often sell less than team books, unless its' a uber A-list character (Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Batman etc.). Fact: Female solos' almost always sell worse than both their male counterparts and team books that they are in, and especially back in the 80's when Dazz was the last female who had a solo book going in that decade, and female led books had a hard time maintaining a strong following and maintain decent sales. The only way you may get a female led book that sells better than the team books, or her male counterparts is if you have like Jesus and the Holy Ghost writing with God drawing the female superhero book.

[Novaya Havoc]

This isn't derogatory, I'm genuinely interested in your answer: Is 13 a random number that you're attributing to the book (as with NEX), or is there something you feel about the relaunch that will lead it to fail so miserably?

Sales would have to hit 20,000 of less for the book to be cancelled so quickly. None of Claremont's recent books have hit such low sales figures as to be cancelled. Both Exiles and NEX are sitting around the 25,000 - 30,000 mark. You have to assume that the bulk of that readership are the Claremont faithful (I don't think disgruntled Dazzler fans like yourself or Captain Britain fans like me number that highly). I'd assume that most of them will follow Claremont onto New Exiles. There will probably be higher sales for the first issue, which should drop off to about NEX levels after a few issues. I can see the book sitting around the 25,000-30,000 mark once things level off.

Well, to take your position for example:

You say sales didn't drop of substantially between Bedard and Claremont. In truth, they haven't, though Exiles did check into the 20's territory in August (see the ICv2 numbers).

Given this, either:

A. Exiles has maintained its core readership regardless of the writer.
B. Some Exiles readers dropped, while some CC-fans filled in the holes.

So now, we're looking at a brand relaunch with just CC. This risks that:

1A. Exiles core readers pick up the first couple of issues to see how it compares, and then drop off because CC =/= Original Exiles.
1B. CC readers pick it up, and won't cap the 29K mark at best.
1C. New Exiles hits a new core audience due to fantastic storytelling and audience, maintaining a good readership.

Judging by CC's other recent work, I expect a spike in sales for #1 depending on PR. Say 45K at a maximum.

Lose 3-5K based on the first issue, which will (IMO) not feature Blink, and judging by the Exiles #100 cover, neither will Nocturne or T-Bird.

Lose 10K by #5.

Back to 35K or less at this point.

Drops more readers because of the "Sage effect." By #10 it's back in the 20Ks.

At this point, Marvel can either:

2A. Realize they had low expectations for a CC title and continue publishing.
2B. Cut their losses and cancel in the teen issues.

Either way, we know Sage will transfer over, and CC would throw a fit if editorial took Betsy from him. So what's really left? No fantastic concept, no new readers.

Exiles casually drops readers in this case, unless original point 1C holds true, which, judging by his past work, will not.

I fully anticipate New Exiles at CC's last shot at proving he can move a book. Unless he hits a grand slam -- and all odds are against him -- he relies solely on Marvel's pity/lowered expectations to keep the book going.

So unless Marvel is giving him a gift from heaven, or CC finds divine inspiration, new Exiles will not go on past the teen issues. I arbitrarily give it 13 issues.

[Novaya Havoc]

WTF is this supposed to mean?

Fact: Solos often sell less than team books, unless its' a uber A-list character (Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Batman etc.). Fact: Female solos' almost always sell worse than both their male counterparts and team books that they are in, and especially back in the 80's when Dazz was the last female who had a solo book going in that decade, and female led books had a hard time maintaining a strong following and maintain decent sales. The only way you may get a female led book that sells better than the team books, or her male counterparts is if you have like Jesus and the Holy Ghost writing with God drawing the female superhero book.

Never mention in the worst part of its run, Dazzler still moved a good number of units. And it still lasted 5 years, more than most female solos.

And Dazzler had no ties to a male counterpart (Spider-Girl, anyone?) or a big-name team.

Dazzler was a flippin sales miracle for all it had going against it. To compare it to Uncanny is just silly. Uncanny would have sold better whether it featured "Mr. Flatulance" as a character instead of her or not.

[Babylon23]

Well, to take your position for example:

You say sales didn't drop of substantially between Bedard and Claremont. In truth, they haven't, though Exiles did check into the 20's territory in August (see the ICv2 numbers).

Fair enough. I haven't seen those figures so I wasn't sure.

Given this, either:

A. Exiles has maintained its core readership regardless of the writer.
B. Some Exiles readers dropped, while some CC-fans filled in the holes.

Good point. I'm not sure which of these is accurate. Given Claremont's fairly loyal fanbase, I'd assume that at least some of them jumped on when he began, which would suggest some of the Exiles loyalists left.

So now, we're looking at a brand relaunch with just CC. This risks that:

1A. Exiles core readers pick up the first couple of issues to see how it compares, and then drop off because CC =/= Original Exiles.
1B. CC readers pick it up, and won't cap the 29K mark at best.
1C. New Exiles hits a new core audience due to fantastic storytelling and audience, maintaining a good readership.

In regards to 1B, I can actually see the book settling in around the 27-29,000 mark based on sales of NEX - another Claremont-launched book which is probably a better comparison to New Exiles than the current Exiles series, since claremont is there for issue 1. Neither book really has characters that a large number of readers follow religiously. Unless they somehow throw Wolverine into this one as well.

Judging by CC's other recent work, I expect a spike in sales for #1 depending on PR. Say 45K at a maximum.

I'd say possibly even a little less than that. Maybe 40K. I believe (although I don't have figures handy) that both NEX and X-Factor launched more around the 40K mark.

Lose 3-5K based on the first issue, which will (IMO) not feature Blink, and judging by the Exiles #100 cover, neither will Nocturne or T-Bird.

Obviously, we don't know the lineup yet, but 3-5k seems like a reasonable figure, about standard for this kind of relaunch.

Lose 10K by #5.

Back to 35K or less at this point.

Fair enough. that certianly follows the NEX sales drop. But that still places it well above cancellation point.

Drops more readers because of the "Sage effect." By #10 it's back in the 20Ks.

Now, is this just your general seething hatred of Sage? while I anticipate that she'll most likely be in the book, there's no guarentee (that I know of) that she is.

Or are you suggesting something more along the lines of Claremont choosing a pet character (Sage or otherwise) who will quickly get on readers nerves? Maybe the "Kitty-Storm-Sage Effect".

At this point, Marvel can either:

2A. Realize they had low expectations for a CC title and continue publishing.
2B. Cut their losses and cancel in the teen issues.

Possibly. However, Marvel has continued to publish lower selling books for much longer, even in recent times. Cable/Deadpool is a good example. They might stick with New Exiles for longer.

Either way, we know Sage will transfer over, and CC would throw a fit if editorial took Betsy from him. So what's really left? No fantastic concept, no new readers.

Do we actually know if Sage and Psylocke are transferring over? I haven't really seen anything about the new lineup.

Exiles casually drops readers in this case, unless original point 1C holds true, which, judging by his past work, will not.

Well, that's obviously more of a subjective argument. Personally, I've enjoyed NEX and his last run on Uncanny.

I fully anticipate New Exiles at CC's last shot at proving he can move a book. Unless he hits a grand slam -- and all odds are against him -- he relies solely on Marvel's pity/lowered expectations to keep the book going.

I doubt Marvel would continue to hire the man based purely on pity or lowered expectations. They've certainly turfed most of the Claremont generation of writers already. I'm sure that they'd clear him at as well if they didn't think there was some merit in what he was doing.

I'd say Marvel probably sees Claremont the way they see Kirkman. They like what he does even if it doesn't equate to big sales for them.

So unless Marvel is giving him a gift from heaven, or CC finds divine inspiration, new Exiles will not go on past the teen issues. I arbitrarily give it 13 issues.

Fair enough. While I disagree with some of your points, I appreciate a well thought out and argued response.

[Novaya Havoc]

In regards to 1B, I can actually see the book settling in around the 27-29,000 mark based on sales of NEX - another Claremont-launched book which is probably a better comparison to New Exiles than the current Exiles series, since claremont is there for issue 1. Neither book really has characters that a large number of readers follow religiously. Unless they somehow throw Wolverine into this one as well.

The thing is NEX was billed as the British heir to the original Excalibur. There are some loyalists, and some fan-favorites (Dazzler, CB, Juggernaut, Nocturne). I still remember the 2005 times when people were psyched about the "new Juggernaut and Dazzler series!!!" before everything else was announced. Don't underestimate.


I'd say possibly even a little less than that. Maybe 40K. I believe (although I don't have figures handy) that both NEX and X-Factor launched more around the 40K mark.

Nah, they were both above 50K, IIRC.

Fair enough. that certianly follows the NEX sales drop. But that still places it well above cancellation point.

See, but I see this as the title's "last hurrah" of points. It's not necessarily "new." See below.

Now, is this just your general seething hatred of Sage? while I anticipate that she'll most likely be in the book, there's no guarentee (that I know of) that she is.

Or are you suggesting something more along the lines of Claremont choosing a pet character (Sage or otherwise) who will quickly get on readers nerves? Maybe the "Kitty-Storm-Sage Effect"

Your point exactly. It has nothing to do with the character in particular. Like I've said to JEFF PARKER (omg plz) Sage could be used fantastically in the correct capacity. It's the dreadful storylines that follow these pets that will put of readers. It's even put off Sword, who is a British loyalist who loves the Excalibur brand with no abandon. Pet worship trumping good storytelling sinks the title. Check it.


Possibly. However, Marvel has continued to publish lower selling books for much longer, even in recent times. Cable/Deadpool is a good example. They might stick with New Exiles for longer.

I will break here with a long segment. The thing with titles such as Cable/Deadpool is that they were genuinely new, and had something going for them. Whether or not it was more of a Rush Hour 2 comedy duo vibe or not is up for debate and for another thread. But they had their own niche.

The problem with CC titles is that they exist solely to just be that -- CC titles. NEX -- despite arguments to the contrary at the outset -- became just that. The issues became riddled with pet plots, pet characterization (Dazzler/Juggernaut 80's continuity romance revival, anyone?), and pet themes. It became inaccessable to the new reader. The title quickly devolved into "continuity reference! continuity reference!" with the brief exception of Nocturne's stroke which was "personal reference! personal reference!"

Based on this, I feel New Exiles will be more of this mold. Self-referencing and pet themes. It won't strike anything terribly new, and will jettison any and everything that made Exiles, well, Exiles. Linking strict sales figures to Cable/Deadpool means nothing; I'm convinced that title stayed on because of the unique relationship of the heroes. It had a place.

Much like She-Hulk has a place, even when it sold worse than both. She-Hulk is She-Hulk. New Exiles will be what exactly, aside from "That CC Title"?

I think they're throwing Claremont a bone to set him up for inevitable failure, and a reason to say "your contract is no longer exclusive. Write where you want." May not be the case, but I just don't see New Exiles going anywhere, well, new. Exiles at its inception was pretty new. Where else will/can CC take it? I hope he can dazzle me, but I really, really doubt it.

That said...


Do we actually know if Sage and Psylocke are transferring over? I haven't really seen anything about the new lineup.

I have my birdie hints on Psylocke. Sage I can't tell, but I'm sure it's a definite. He will not let Tessie go until he stops writing comics. Trust.


Well, that's obviously more of a subjective argument. Personally, I've enjoyed NEX and his last run on Uncanny.

That's fine. And I'm sure some out there loved the Jubilee mini. Didn't make it an ongoing. I think CC's on his last leg with this.

I doubt Marvel would continue to hire the man based purely on pity or lowered expectations.

I don't either, but I'm sure they'll see through the end of his exclusive contract on such. More obligation than pity, but nevertheless, that "FATHER OF THE X-MEN" moniker gives him some heavy benes. Trust. They're definitely not hiring him on the quality of storytelling or the massive sales figures or the fan reaction. So what, then? It's because he's legendary. But there's a time to let go, and I'm sure Marvel editorial knows as much.

Like I said, New Exiles seems to be his last leg. A pity move to rid him of the old continuity and create his own free-form "CC ONLY" title. I don't give it more than 13 issues based on his past work. NEX was pretty free-form, sans that HFC arc his fans whine on about, and yet he managed to FUBAR even that. I just don't see them signing him to an exclusive contract or giving him another title.


I'd say Marvel probably sees Claremont the way they see Kirkman. They like what he does even if it doesn't equate to big sales for them.

Kirkman still sells better, even though I don't like him much at all either. And Kirkman doesn't get Marvel titles made exclusively for him. Or random relaunches of old titles, for that matter.

Enjoyed the tete-a-tete, though, Babylon.

[Blade X]

My response to this list:

Blink -- CC will drop her like it's not hot.
Nocturne -- Maybe, but then he'll have the "YOU DON'T GET IT!" stigma forever.
Thunderbird -- Ditto.
Maxam -- WHO?!
Nth Man -- WTF WHO??!?!?!?
Spider-Man 2099 -- I doubt it. He'll relaunch with someone else. Holy SHOCK!
Justice (New Universe) -- Not likely. New Universe = Shooter. CC = Hates Shooter.
Lockdown -- WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE!?!?
Rosetta Stone -- NO!! AGAIN: WHO?!?!?!?!
Death's Head (the original) -- Jesus. Please just say Namor or something.
Kylun -- LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL... no.
Feron -- This is Exiles, not Excalibur. Repeat the lolz.
Spyke (from X-MEN EVOLUTION) -- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I post my LOL reaction it will crash the CBR server.
Caldonia -- Oh, for the love of God, you haven't even included Sage yet. Stop naming these people.
Haywire -- .... SAGE.
Longshot -- Maybe, but c'mon. That would be the only thing this would have going for it.

That cast is total crystal meth.

i guess you didn't either understand or read the parts of my post where I said "This is who I would like to see on the team" and "My list is comprised MOSTLY of lesser known and/or less popular characters".

Blink is a popular character and the star of the book. So she will most likely stay on the team.

Ditto for Nocturne.

CC is a fan of ALL incarnations of T-bird, so he will most likely stay on the team.

Maxam was a member the INFINITY WATCH. He is from an alternate future.

Nth Man is the ULTIMATE NINJA from a parallel earth. He had his own short lived series during the early 90's and even guest stared in an issue of the first EXCALIBUR series writen by CC.

The 2099 books are dead, so you won't see a new SPIDER-MAN 2099 series any time in the near future.

CC DOES NOT hate Jim Shooter. They are actually friends and both have spoken very highly of each other in interviews. So Justice joining the team is always a SLIGHT possibility.

Lockdown,Rosetta Stone,and Caldonia are characters created by CC who all come from alternate dimensions/alternate earths. They were first introduced during CC's FF run (which was pretty damn good, IMO).

Go to wikipedia to learn all about the original Death's Head.

Kylun and Feron both have either connections or experience in dealing with alternate earths. So they would maker a perfect fit for this team.

Haywire is from the REAL SQUADRON SUPREME universe and was a member of that team.

Well if they can bring a white character like X-23, who was HATED by many INTERNET fans of the show, to the MU, then they can do the same thing for a black character like Spyke who was also equally HATED by INTERNET fans, but later one them over once he had is powers upgraded and an attitude adjustment.

The REAL Morph (I forgot to add him to my list) without that stupid Proteus crap.

OMT, I'll stop naming these obscure characters when you stop obsessing over Dazzler.

[DDM]

Maxam -- WHO?!

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/94157407500.17.GIF

Nth Man -- WTF WHO??!?!?!?

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/58136163400.1.GIF

The Nth Man resides on another alternate Earth.

Lockdown -- WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE!?!?
Rosetta Stone -- NO!! AGAIN: WHO?!?!?!?!

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30933846944.17.GIF

Lockdown & Rosetta Stone are heroes from another alternate reality created by Chris Claremont & Salvador LaRocca in Fantastic Four.



Caldonia -- Oh, for the love of God, you haven't even included Sage yet. Stop naming these people.

Caldonia is Alysade Stuart from another alternate Earth; she is her Earth's Captain Britain. Caldonia was created by Chris Claremont & Salvador LaRocca. Caldonia is nothing like Sage; she has more in common with Brian Braddock. Roma made Caldonia Franklin's guardian since he possesses so much power. Caldonia is essentially the FF's nanny.

[Flight]

I don't see why Psylocke fans should have to suffer, just because CC takes a fit.

[xmanson]

Lockedonw and Rosetta Stone are "pet" characters? They just showed up twice, geez.

[Fatguy]

I don't see why Psylocke fans should have to suffer, just because CC takes a fit.

Its funny, its been so long since I've enjoyed anything with Psylocke in it, that I honestly forget that I like the character.

[Babylon23]

Not quite true - Marvel Zombies #1 went into a third print run, after all (with orders for that third reprint of a single issue exceeding those for the entire run of John Byrne's short-lived Blood Of The Demon).

Kirkman can clearly shift lots of units given the right launching pad.

Perhaps, but he's also had books cancelled along the way (Marvel Team-Up & Ant-Man are good examples). Aside from Marvel Zombies, he hasn't written any huge sellers for Marvel that I can think of, but Marvel continue to invest in his books because they respect his writing abilities. Obviously, they think Kirkman has something to offer. Just for the record, I agree with them.

Another good example would be Fabian Nicieza. While his books aren't huge sellers, Marvel has continued to offer him steady work for several years now.

[Radical_dreamer]

Ellis is busy with Astonishing X-Men and Decompression Unlimited.

X-Legend Chris Claremont, the man who wrote your favorite X-stories, is launching New Exiles and says it will be a totally different take on the concept. And moving away from anything he's done before in the X-canon.

God, no. His arc on the title was enough to make me drop it.

[Blade X]

Perhaps, but he's also had books cancelled along the way (Marvel Team-Up & Ant-Man are good examples). Aside from Marvel Zombies, he hasn't written any huge sellers for Marvel that I can think of, but Marvel continue to invest in his books because they respect his writing abilities. Obviously, they think Kirkman has something to offer. Just for the record, I agree with them.

it should also be noted that ULTIMATE X-MEN under Kirkman has been shedding readers at a pretty steady rate. Now I'm NOT saying that Kirkman is the reason the book is loosing readers, I'm only pointing out that it is loosing readers.

[Babylon23]

The thing is NEX was billed as the British heir to the original Excalibur. There are some loyalists, and some fan-favorites (Dazzler, CB, Juggernaut, Nocturne).

Absolutely. Fan favourite characters is what brought me to the book. However, I wouldn't underestimate the CC loyalists either. Despite a lot of online derision, there's still a core group of fans there that will buy the book because he's writing it. Now, i have absolutely no idea how many readers that actually amounts to, but i'd say the numbers are there to keep a book above the cancellation point.

Anyway, Claremont fans + fan favourite readers was enough to keep NEX going, even though the team consists almost entirely of b and c list characters. I can see New Exiles doing much the same.

Nah, they were both above 50K, IIRC.

Could be. I don't have exact figures on hand. I may be remembering numbers from later issues instead.

Your point exactly. It has nothing to do with the character in particular. Like I've said to JEFF PARKER (omg plz) Sage could be used fantastically in the correct capacity. It's the dreadful storylines that follow these pets that will put of readers. It's even put off Sword, who is a British loyalist who loves the Excalibur brand with no abandon. Pet worship trumping good storytelling sinks the title. Check it.

Cool. I tend to agree with you. Pet worship can get really frustrating in books. As much as I liked Sage in X-Treme, she really was poorly overused in NEX, especially since no clear reason was established for her being in the book in the first place. Characterisation aside, I'd say the same about Dazzler. I think she was a little overused in the book, while Nocturne, Wisdom and Juggernaut often just seemed to be there to make up the numbers.

Whedon's use of Kitty Pryde (usually my favourite x-character) and Bendis with Jessica Jones are another couple of examples that annoy me.

I will break here with a long segment. The thing with titles such as Cable/Deadpool is that they were genuinely new, and had something going for them. Whether or not it was more of a Rush Hour 2 comedy duo vibe or not is up for debate and for another thread. But they had their own niche.

The problem with CC titles is that they exist solely to just be that -- CC titles. NEX -- despite arguments to the contrary at the outset -- became just that. The issues became riddled with pet plots, pet characterization (Dazzler/Juggernaut 80's continuity romance revival, anyone?), and pet themes. It became inaccessable to the new reader. The title quickly devolved into "continuity reference! continuity reference!" with the brief exception of Nocturne's stroke which was "personal reference! personal reference!"

Based on this, I feel New Exiles will be more of this mold. Self-referencing and pet themes. It won't strike anything terribly new, and will jettison any and everything that made Exiles, well, Exiles.

Possibly. I can't really comment since I have no idea what this book will be like, or what the central concept will be. So far, the only thing I've read is that it will be different to the current Exiles series.

I disagree with your 'nothing new' comments about NEX, though. Personally, I felt there were a few fascinating and new ideas in the book, especially Albion and his group, an element of the Captain Britain Corps that had never been adressed before. Of course, the execution leaved a little to be desired, and Claremont did fall back into some of his usual patterns, but the ideas were there.

Linking strict sales figures to Cable/Deadpool means nothing; I'm convinced that title stayed on because of the unique relationship of the heroes. It had a place.

True, but Marvel wouldn't have continued to publish it if the numbers weren't there. Despite all conceits of creativity, Marvel is first and foremost a business. Now, they obviously see merit in Claremont's idea, or they wouldn't be launching the book with a new #1. If they felt the book didn't have it's place, I'm sure they'd just cancel Exiles and leave it at that.

Much like She-Hulk has a place, even when it sold worse than both. She-Hulk is She-Hulk. New Exiles will be what exactly, aside from "That CC Title"?

Well, we won't know until it's closer to publishing date and more information has been revealed. However, I'm not going to condemn a book that I know absolutely nothing about. I'll judge it on its own merits once its released.

I think they're throwing Claremont a bone to set him up for inevitable failure, and a reason to say "your contract is no longer exclusive. Write where you want."

If that is the case, then Marvel is a very poorly run business indeed. I see no logical reason why they'd set any of their writers up for failure.

May not be the case, but I just don't see New Exiles going anywhere, well, new. Exiles at its inception was pretty new. Where else will/can CC take it? I hope he can dazzle me, but I really, really doubt it.

Once again, I can't really comment until I see the book itself. I can understand your trepidation, however, given that you haven't enjoyed his writing in recent years. Still, you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised.

I have my birdie hints on Psylocke. Sage I can't tell, but I'm sure it's a definite. He will not let Tessie go until he stops writing comics. Trust.

Oh, I agree. I completely foresee Sage being on this team. Clermont won't let her go unless he's forced to. I was just wondering if maybe you'd seen something I hadn't.

OTOH, I don't see Sage being a problem, so long as her reason for being in the book is clearly established, and she doesn't overshadow her teammates.

As for Psylocke, she's one of my absolute favourites, so I have no problem with her being in any book (although I wish she was back in her old body).

I don't either, but I'm sure they'll see through the end of his exclusive contract on such. More obligation than pity, but nevertheless, that "FATHER OF THE X-MEN" moniker gives him some heavy benes. Trust. They're definitely not hiring him on the quality of storytelling or the massive sales figures or the fan reaction. So what, then? It's because he's legendary. But there's a time to let go, and I'm sure Marvel editorial knows as much.

I'm sure they do, which is why I think they actually see something in Claremont's writing. Personally, I don't know the ins and outs of Marvel editorial, but I'd say his continued employment means they do actually see merit in the quality of his writing. Once again, I don't see them hiring anybody out of pity, or to watch them fail.

Like I said, New Exiles seems to be his last leg. A pity move to rid him of the old continuity and create his own free-form "CC ONLY" title. I don't give it more than 13 issues based on his past work. NEX was pretty free-form, sans that HFC arc his fans whine on about, and yet he managed to FUBAR even that. I just don't see them signing him to an exclusive contract or giving him another title.

Well, they've already got him lined up for the X-Men Next miniseries (or whatever its called), and there was some mention of the Women of the X-Men GN with Milo Minara. Granted, they're not an ongoing titles, but Marvel seems to be investing at least some time and effort in Claremont.

Once again, I don't see the pity element of this at all. Marvel is continuing to greenlight Claremont projects, even potentially self-indulgent projects like Next. I'd say that this shows that they believe he still has something to offer the company.

Enjoyed the tete-a-tete, though, Babylon.

Same here. It's always nice to have a civil debate about comics and creators.

[Nachturne]

Wait. So what does Kirkman have to do with all this again? And what does what one writer does and writes and sell have to do with the way success is measured on another?

Personally, I dislike Kirkman alot on Xmen. But Walking Dead is FAB. However, this is completely beside the point. Shall we talk about NewExiles

[Phil Hunn]

Perhaps, but he's also had books cancelled along the way (Marvel Team-Up & Ant-Man are good examples). Aside from Marvel Zombies, he hasn't written any huge sellers for Marvel that I can think of, but Marvel continue to invest in his books because they respect his writing abilities. Obviously, they think Kirkman has something to offer. Just for the record, I agree with them.

From what I can gather, Ultimate X-Men had been losing steam for a while before Kirkman took over (although I'm also getting the impression that Kirkman's run hasn't been all that stellar). Still, as you say, even an only halfway decent performance from Kirkman is enough for Marvel to keep throwing money at him.

Cool. I tend to agree with you. Pet worship can get really frustrating in books. As much as I liked Sage in X-Treme, she really was poorly overused in NEX, especially since no clear reason was established for her being in the book in the first place. Characterisation aside, I'd say the same about Dazzler. I think she was a little overused in the book, while Nocturne, Wisdom and Juggernaut often just seemed to be there to make up the numbers.

Whedon's use of Kitty Pryde (usually my favourite x-character) and Bendis with Jessica Jones are another couple of examples that annoy me.

Agreed. Pet characters being overused has resulted in many frustrating moments in the past few years.

If that is the case, then Marvel is a very poorly run business indeed. I see no logical reason why they'd set any of their writers up for failure.

Marvel is, lest we forget, the company that had to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the 90s because of its crappy business decisions - it bought ToyBiz right before the bottom fell out of the action figure market, and it bought the rights to the OverPower collectible card game right before the bottom fell out of the collectible card game market.

So this doesn't even surprise me one bit.

[xmanson]

Those are some damn long posts just for repeating the same argument over and over.

It all boils down to this to me:

There's a 99% chance this title will suck. But God is witness that I'm praying for the 1% chance of it being good.

(Not really praying, but you get the picture)

[jarrod]

She followed him from the core books of the 2000 Revolution to X-Treme X-Men to New Excalibur. I'd say it's more than a fair bet that she'll up sticks and join the New Exiles cast.
Don't forget her Uncanny stint, where she outsmarted the Fury, Viper, Pierce and Shaw all back to back. :/

I *really* wish Claremont would let her go, Cornell could do wonderful things with her... Claremont needs to start fresh anyway, and drop the 616ers.


From what I can gather, Ultimate X-Men had been losing steam for a while before Kirkman took over (although I'm also getting the impression that Kirkman's run hasn't been all that stellar). Still, as you say, even an only halfway decent performance from Kirkman is enough for Marvel to keep throwing money at him.
No, it started dropping slightly as Bendis was wrapping up, but it stabilized under Vaughn. It was still a top 20 (and often top 10 iirc) book though, it's only now under Kirkman that it's been steadily declining and now moves slightly less than Xtreme did on average. :/

[Beast]

Don't forget her Uncanny stint, where she outsmarted the Fury, Viper, Pierce and Shaw all back to back. :/

I *really* wish Claremont would let her go, Cornell could do wonderful things with her... Claremont needs to start fresh anyway, and drop the 616ers.
She didn't outsmart The Fury. She was taken over by The Fury. Where did she outsmart Viper? That was Emma and Marvel Girl. Storm was the one who took out Pierce. With Shaw giving him the killing blow. All Sage did was let Pierce and Shaw take each other out, so that Sunspot could take over. Cornell doesn't have plans for her.

[jarrod]

She didn't outsmart The Fury. She was taken over by The Fury. Where did she outsmart Viper? That was Emma and Marvel Girl. Storm was the one who took out Pierce. With Shaw giving him the killing blow. All Sage did was let Pierce and Shaw take each other out, so that Sunspot could take over. Cornell doesn't have plans for her.
She came up with the plan that topped the Fury, which involved her walking up to it and ripping it's heart out. <3 <3

She and Logan switched up to get the jump on Viper. She planned on Pierce and Shaw taking each other out. Honestly, I think Uncanny was the beginning of the end for Sage... I haven't liked her since Xtreme. :/


And she'd work soooo well in a scifi themed, government sponsored, espionage and intrigue Excalibur, playing off Wisdom. Really wish Cornell got her... now I'm somewhat worried he won't even get the Braddocks though. :(

[zonzorp]

She came up with the plan that topped the Fury, which involved her walking up to it and ripping it's heart out. <3 <3
It involved several other things coming together - the Fury being frozen by liquid nitrogen, its sensors degraded by Storm's electrical attack, and Sage not scanning as a superhuman. It also involved her knowing exactly where and when to strike.
In the original story, one of the Special Executive reached into its head and scrambled its brain. Its flesh has a soft and doughy consistency. It isn't like Sage punched a hole in steel.

She and Logan switched up to get the jump on Viper. She planned on Pierce and Shaw taking each other out. Honestly, I think Uncanny was the beginning of the end for Sage... I haven't liked her since Xtreme. :/
Why the objection to characters who plan?
Coming up with plans is what Sage should do, that and some hand to hand fighting. It's what she did in XXM. It's when Claremont moves away from "planner" as Sage's core concept that his portrayal of Sage suffers.


And she'd work soooo well in a scifi themed, government sponsored, espionage and intrigue Excalibur, playing off Wisdom.
Playing off Wisdom, or playing second fiddle, straight girl, and occasional Kitty rebound girlfriend to Wisdom?
Really wish Cornell got her
Really hope he never does.

[jarrod]

Playing off Wisdom, or playing second fiddle, straight girl, and occasional Kitty rebound girlfriend to Wisdom?
I'd say playing more of a challenger to him, no romance though. They seem like a well suited duo for shared leadership, she being a meticulous planner and strategizer while he's more an off the cuff improvisor aand risk taker.

Besides, Sage had no problem playing "second fiddle" to Ro for years. And in a book like Excalibur, she'd have far more room to take more authority even. Plus her character would be far more at home with the book's concept than crosstime hopping in Exiles.


Really hope he never does.
I think it'd be great, Claremont's not done much worthwhile with the charater in a long time imo. Let someone fresh take the reigns awhile.

[Novaya Havoc]

Why the objection to characters who plan?
Coming up with plans is what Sage should do, that and some hand to hand fighting.

I agree. But Sage doesn't come up with plans. She comes up with plot devices. This is the way I defeat villain X. My power allows me to sense a weakness to overcome you! I CANNOT BE DOMINATED!

If a plan goes wrong, it self-corrects, or Sage just pulls a power out of her tushie and kills them.

Was Sage shooting Astral Shadow King in his Astral Face with an Astral AK-47 a plan? No -- it was a silly plot device.

Sometimes plans go wrong, zonzorp. And her hand-to-hand fighting? Like when she took out a whole bank full of goons with a little help from Wisdom? Or overcame a Warwolf on her own? Or cut off ShadowCyclops' head?

Come on. Planning is fine. I'm all cool with Sage being a BTS tactician or something like that, but that would mean she would be behind the scenes, and not a frontrunner.

Example:
In the Black Tom arc of NEX, Sage was coordinating the team. Background. Ok. But then we needed to hear dialogue such as "Wow, Sage is so amazing!" from the teammates. K. Then in the end she is attacked by the Shadow King and shoots him in the face.

A good role that had to be ruined because Sage just needed some spotlight, lest she become "too background."

I'd pray for someone like Cornell to write her as an actual character and not a plot device.

[KidNewWave]

You have to admit she would make an excellent Handler for the Exiles
considering the vast amounts of info she can process coming from the
multitude of parallel universes. She knows when to hold em and when to
fold em! She won't get so attached to a mission, that it jeopardizes the
bigger picture.

[Novaya Havoc]

You have to admit she would make an excellent Handler for the Exiles
considering the vast amounts of info she can process coming from the
multitude of parallel universes. She knows when to hold em and when to
fold em! She won't get so attached to a mission, that it jeopardizes the
bigger picture.

She could be good in that capacity, only if she eventually merged with the computer system and became like MOSES in South Park.

http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/309/309_big_mo.gif

Unfortunately, CC will make her the star of the show. He won't let her backpedal for some expendable AU-er.

[Blade X]

You have to admit she would make an excellent Handler for the Exiles
considering the vast amounts of info she can process coming from the
multitude of parallel universes. She knows when to hold em and when to
fold em! She won't get so attached to a mission, that it jeopardizes the
bigger picture.

I agree. Her being the coordinator for the Exiles would make perfect sense.

[Blade X]

Unfortunately, CC will make her the star of the show. He won't let her backpedal for some expendable AU-er.

Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

I'm willing to bet that regardless if Sage is in the book or not in the book, you and some other posters would still be complaining about CC over using his "pet" characters.

[Novaya Havoc]

Maybe he will, maybe he won't.


http://www.inoculatedmind.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/magic8ball.jpg

[KidNewWave]

What is up with Psylocke,

Claremont has been building her up for so long, (Jamie re-creating her so she is the ultimate weapon etc.) now she is just floating around the Crystal Palace.
in her sweats. WFT?

I'm hopeful, but Exiles is a Mess at the Moment

I just got the recent issue today (late as usual thanks to Marvel Subscription Service!)
Im so sick of these multi part stories that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS.

"OH MY GOD THIS REALITY HAS BEEN ERASED, I DON'T KNOW IF THE EXILES ESCAPED OR NOT?" the exact same cliffhanger we saw in the last arc? brilliant edge of my seat stuff.
First 2 arc on Claremonts RE-ENVISIONING the Exiles, and he has had Reed Richards Save/Destroy the reality in both. YAWN

Basically It didn't matter if the exiles came or not, what was going to happen was going to happen, and each reality they go to the BAD GUY, finds out there are even MORE universes to conquer,
so they are actually shooting themselves in the foot and making their jobs harder. When your eating dinner with the enemy, dont fill them in on the "Alternate Universe" business

[CmX]

What is up with Psylocke,

Claremont has been building her up for so long, (Jamie re-creating her so she is the ultimate weapon etc.) now she is just floating around the Crystal Palace.
in her sweats. WFT?

I'm hopeful, but Exiles is a Mess at the Moment

I just got the recent issue today (late as usual thanks to Marvel Subscription Service!)
Im so sick of these multi part stories that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS.

"OH MY GOD THIS REALITY HAS BEEN ERASED, I DON'T KNOW IF THE EXILES ESCAPED OR NOT?" the exact same cliffhanger we saw in the last arc? brilliant edge of my seat stuff.
First 2 arc on Claremonts RE-ENVISIONING the Exiles, and he has had Reed Richards Save/Destroy the reality in both. YAWN

Basically It didn't matter if the exiles came or not, what was going to happen was going to happen, and each reality they go to the BAD GUY, finds out there are even MORE universes to conquer,
so they are actually shooting themselves in the foot and making their jobs harder. When your eating dinner with the enemy, dont fill them in on the "Alternate Universe" business

lol no shit didn't the Exiles used to be on the down low when ever they were on missions? Ugh Claremont is just ruining this title... it's really just a piece of crap at this point.

And yeah CC won't let Psylocke go but he isn't doing shit with her. She got her ass handed to her more than once in the last arc and now in this arc humans with GUNS defeated a telekinetic ? Uh.. okay they also tied her up? Yeah any TK can easily get out of that one, geez. Carey could be working wonders with Psylocke making her appealing again. Not only is she stinking up Exiles with her we know she wont' ever die in this title, but CC ain't doing squat with her.

[Phil Hunn]

Don't forget her Uncanny stint, where she outsmarted the Fury, Viper, Pierce and Shaw all back to back. :/

Thanks for reminding me. I'd almost scoured that from my mind...

I *really* wish Claremont would let her go, Cornell could do wonderful things with her... Claremont needs to start fresh anyway, and drop the 616ers.

I think my favourite Sage story to date was the single-issue X-Men Unlimited story by Tony Lee. That was fun.

And she'd work soooo well in a scifi themed, government sponsored, espionage and intrigue Excalibur, playing off Wisdom. Really wish Cornell got her... now I'm somewhat worried he won't even get the Braddocks though. :(

Agreed. I liked their dynamic in the few issues of New Excalibur I read.

I'd say playing more of a challenger to him, no romance though.

Not even sex-buddies? I'm sure Sage knows a few tricks from her time in the Hellfire Club, after all :D

And yeah CC won't let Psylocke go but he isn't doing shit with her. She got her ass handed to her more than once in the last arc and now in this arc humans with GUNS defeated a telekinetic ? Uh.. okay they also tied her up? Yeah any TK can easily get out of that one, geez.

This reminds me of the time in X-Treme X-Men where she remarked to herself that because she now had leverage, she could prise a hatch off its moorings. Since when has a freakin' telekinetic needed leverage? Jean Grey, Cable, Marvel Girl or Hellion would have just taken one look at that hatch and ripped it right out of its doorway, without waffling on about leverage.

[KidNewWave]

lol no shit didn't the Exiles used to be on the down low when ever they were on missions? Ugh Claremont is just ruining this title... it's really just a piece of crap at this point.

And yeah CC won't let Psylocke go but he isn't doing shit with her. She got her ass handed to her more than once in the last arc and now in this arc humans with GUNS defeated a telekinetic ? Uh.. okay they also tied her up? Yeah any TK can easily get out of that one, geez. Carey could be working wonders with Psylocke making her appealing again. Not only is she stinking up Exiles with her we know she wont' ever die in this title, but CC ain't doing squat with her.

Wasn't Claremont banging on FOREVER about how Psylocke could crush a mountain with a thought! But as you said she can't untie a rope.
Dear, O Dear, O Dear.

CHARACTERS I WANT 100 MILES AWAY FROM CLAREMONT:

BLINK, PSYLOCKE, NOCTURNE, & DAZZLER (who is exibiting a lot of psylocke-esque powers i.e. her LIGHT KATANA) WTF?
Someones seriously running out of ideas...........................

Putting Blink and Psylocke in the hands of Mike Carey would be sheer brilliance

(think about Paige and Blink on a team, even though its a different Blink, Paige would still feel indebted for saving her life, and the two would become instant friends.)

Carey's Psylocke would be flawless!

[Oliverhannah]

Wasn't Claremont banging on FOREVER about how Psylocke could crush a mountain with a thought! But as you said she can't untie a rope.
Dear, O Dear, O Dear.

CHARACTERS I WANT 100 MILES AWAY FROM CLAREMONT:

BLINK, PSYLOCKE, NOCTURNE, & DAZZLER (who is exibiting a lot of psylocke-esque powers i.e. her LIGHT KATANA) WTF?
Someones seriously running out of ideas...........................

Putting Blink and Psylocke in the hands of Mike Carey would be sheer brilliance

(think about Paige and Blink on a team, even though its a different Blink, Paige would still feel indebted for saving her life, and the two would become instant friends.)

Carey's Psylocke would be flawless!

Lol tha would b awesome if Carey write Psylocke n Blink:D

I feel Exiles wont comin bak to 616 ever... so Blink will meet Dark Beast n Sugar Man cos they'r AoA obvi.. Poor Blink wont happy to see them, she deffo kill them! :p

[tetragene]

Wasn't Claremont banging on FOREVER about how Psylocke could crush a mountain with a thought! But as you said she can't untie a rope.
Dear, O Dear, O Dear.

he hammered that "powerful enough to crush a mountain, but no fine motor control" point into out heads from the very moment he brought her back. However, in NEX she gets pwned by lame Shadow X-Men (where was the "mountain crushing power" then?) and then in Exiles she is able to rearrange her molecules to turn invisible (where the hell did this PRECISION control come from when you've been telling us over and over again that she had no fine motor control? Also...wtf?!)

I'm willing to bet that regardless if Sage is in the book or not in the book, you and some other posters would still be complaining about CC over using his "pet" characters.

Ergh...if he doesn't get Sage (which is HIGHLY unlikely) then he'll still be left with Psylocke and an AU Kitty (that is Captain America...lol, wtf). So the "pet character" theme would still be very, very true.

[ImpulseUCF]

You have to admit she would make an excellent Handler for the Exiles considering the vast amounts of info she can process coming from the multitude of parallel universes. Ugh. I hate to admit that, logically and objectively, it would be a rational choice and a logical fit. I'm just so jaded by her pet-character status and overuse that I don't want her around. Based on recent writing, I think it's a rational idea that would stink in the execution.

Regarding the back-to-back FF arcs... I believe Claremont might have been trying to do a duality/ yin-yang thing, where in the first arc an AU Reed Richards saved the world, but in the second he destroyed it. 'ZOMG, that is like da total oppositts of wut happint in za last arc, ZOMG!" Well-played. Still, both endings fell flat, the arcs were overlong, and the Exiles didn't really seem to serve any purpose there.

I hope that changes with New Exiles, but I don't think we have a lot of reason to expect so. Who knows what it will even be like after Exiles # 100.

[xmanson]

I hope TBird and Nocturne get a happy ending.

I'm waiting for the abortion conversation, though.

[ImpulseUCF]

I hope TBird and Nocturne get a happy ending.Me, too.
I'm waiting for the abortion conversation, though.Me, too.

I'm glad it's happening, but a little sad Claremont is writing it.

"James!!! Where the DEVIL have you been?!?! What the DEVIL happened to you!?!?! How the DEVIL did you get here?!?!"

"TJ!!!" (of course, he will be the only one NOT to call her Talia).

I want them to get a happy ending and to retire into limbo.

[Blade X]

Carey's Psylocke would be flawless!

How do you know his Psylocke would be flawless?

[Nachturne]

Me, too.
Me, too.

I'm glad it's happening, but a little sad Claremont is writing it.

"James!!! Where the DEVIL have you been?!?! What the DEVIL happened to you!?!?! How the DEVIL did you get here?!?!"

"TJ!!!" (of course, he will be the only one NOT to call her Talia).

I want them to get a happy ending and to retire into limbo.

James?? *shakes head*

JOHN

[Phil Hunn]

Ugh. I hate to admit that, logically and objectively, it would be a rational choice and a logical fit. I'm just so jaded by her pet-character status and overuse that I don't want her around. Based on recent writing, I think it's a rational idea that would stink in the execution.

Agreed. I suspect that Sage as the Exiles' networker would end up being all about her figuring out the exact course of action, with the Exiles all following in her wake like clueless muppets.

How do you know his Psylocke would be flawless?

Maybe not flawless - but after Carey gave depth to Omega Sentinel and Lady Mastermind, two characters that looked destined to be flatter than pancakes, I think he could definitely do some good work with Betsy.

[ImpulseUCF]

James?? *shakes head*

JOHNUhh, we're talking about Claremont here, thank you! :p


I actually had a brain fart. My bad! :o

[tetragene]

How do you know his Psylocke would be flawless?

Well for one, she wouldn't be randomly pulling the ability to rearrange her molecules to turn invisible...

[Jesse Newcomb]

Well for one, she wouldn't be randomly pulling the ability to rearrange her molecules to turn invisible...

Or using the full total of focused intensity of her psychic dildo to pick up a dime.

[Beast]

Well for one, she wouldn't be randomly pulling the ability to rearrange her molecules to turn invisible...
Yeah, cause Carey didn't pull powers out of Tempo's ass. For just one example.

[tetragene]

Yeah, cause Carey didn't pull powers out of Tempo's ass. For just one example.

You mean Tempo the d-lister who's rarely been used? As opposed to Psylocke--the A/B lister that Claremont's beat us over the head with...continually...stating she had mountain crushing power, but no finesse/fine motor control. Then proceeded to show her rearranging her molecules to turn invisible without any build up or explanation whatsoever? I can give that to you a little bit, but still--not much of a comparison. At all.

[Brian Cronin]

No creator comparisons.

If you can't defend/critique a creator without using other creators as an example, then you just aren't trying hard enough.

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

No creator comparisons.

If you can't defend/critique a creator without using other creators as an example, then you just aren't trying hard enough.

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

No creator comparisons.

If you can't defend/critique a creator without using other creators as an example, then you just aren't trying hard enough.

-Brian

[benjaminberthe]

Ellis is busy with Astonishing X-Men and Decompression Unlimited.


What's Decompression Unlimited ??

[Brian Cronin]

No creator comparisons.

If you can't defend/critique a creator without using other creators as an example, then you just aren't trying hard enough.

-Brian

[xmanson]

Ok, since it was left implied that Nocturne had an abortion, do you think they'll go the abortion or miscarriage route?

Consider this may not be really CC's decision.

[jade_nova]

Ok, since it was left implied that Nocturne had an abortion, do you think they'll go the abortion or miscarriage route?

Consider this may not be really CC's decision.

I thought she had a miscarriage. Where did you hear about her having an abortion.

[Novaya Havoc]

Ok, since it was left implied that Nocturne had an abortion, do you think they'll go the abortion or miscarriage route?

Consider this may not be really CC's decision.

I hope it isn't addressed by name, and I bet that's how it'll end up. Just like in the actual story by Winick -- "I wasn't strong enough. I'm sorry, John." Subtlety FTW!

I thought she had a miscarriage. Where did you hear about her having an abortion.

It was an abortion, but naturally implied. I doubt it would go over so well with certain groups that an "all ages" X-Title is having main characters having abortions.

Nocturne was all down and mopey in a hotel room, and kept saying she "wasn't strong enough." She wasn't strong enough to keep her baby. She chose not to.

"Losing a baby" is usually left to readers' discretions, but I'm fairly certain the intent was Nocturne aborted it. Dazzler was another not-named issue: they didn't "sense a life inside her." Of course, in Dazz's case, people assume she either miscarried or Spiral stole the baby in-vitro and raised it in a test-tube as Shatterstar. Oi.

[ImpulseUCF]

I thought she had a miscarriage. Where did you hear about her having an abortion.It was implied. Winick left it ambiguous in the original story per editorial restrictions at the time (or so the story goes). The wording heavily suggests an abortion, but it is left ambiguous enough that the reader may believe it was a simple miscarriage if it makes them feel better.

Read: plausible deniability.

BTW, Winick confirmed in later interviews that he intended to convey an abortion but was not allowed to explicitly state so.

[Daithi]

I was thinking that the way Exiles is going why not retire it completely. Create a new book "Excalibur: Crosstime Files" for Claremont as its pretty much what New Exiles will end up as.

[xmanson]

Now tell me who's gonna win the next election!!!!

[ImpulseUCF]

I was thinking that the way Exiles is going why not retire it completely. Create a new book "Excalibur: Crosstime Files" for Claremont as its pretty much what New Exiles will end up as.Fine by me. Exiles has been dead for a looong time. By continuingt o use the name, Marvel is just sullying it. Let's call this what it is!

[Phil Hunn]

Now tell me who's gonna win the next election!!!!

Elvis.

"Mah fellow Americans, Ah have been informed that the war in Eye-Raq has been solved by mah music. Thankyaverymuch. Goodnight."

:p

[Novaya Havoc]

Click here to find out whooooooo! (http://novayahavoc.blogspot.com/2007/09/called-it-new-exiles-program-sage.html)

This is a call for excitement on a 1010100100010001011010111 proportion!

[Pach!]

Click here to find out whooooooo! (http://novayahavoc.blogspot.com/2007/09/called-it-new-exiles-program-sage.html)

This is a call for excitement on a 1010100100010001011010111 proportion!

1001001010121010 . I threw in a 2 to spice it up. Sage would like it like that

Also how shameless of you to plug your blog.

[Harlock]

Click here to find out whooooooo! (http://novayahavoc.blogspot.com/2007/09/called-it-new-exiles-program-sage.html)

This is a call for excitement on a 1010100100010001011010111 proportion!

Ugh. And double Ugh.

[Novaya Havoc]

1001001010121010 . I threw in a 2 to spice it up. Sage would like it like that

Also how shameless of you to plug your blog.

2 is NOT binary, Andres!

Meh. CC basically said they were rough ideas, but I firmly believe Sage will be in this title.

[tetragene]

I'm sure he meant the "costumes" were rough ideas, not the cast, lol. He has to have the generic tough guy (Sabretooth), the char he has no clue how to write (Morph), and two of his pets (Psylocke & Sage).

[Deus ex Chris]

2 is NOT binary, Andres!

Meh. CC basically said they were rough ideas, but I firmly believe Sage will be in this title.
Who else would use Sage? Has anyone aside from Grant Morrison, since she got SAGED?

Anyway, this is a total LOL thread.

[Joe Acro]

He wants to keep Morph.

{sighs}

[Harlock]

If that cast is final, I seriously will skip this series. We have CC's patent character, a loose cannon, my least favorite X-woman/Deus ex Machina, and well, Morph.

[Pach!]

I just noticed the wicked hair! HOW B@DAZZ it matches with the leather. I want at least 1 of the character to have a dog collar.

[Hi-Fi]

Aw, Sage doesn't look good with short hair at all.

[Affinity]

!!!!!!!!

I saw these on DeviantArt and saved it!!! This is like THREE MONTHS AGO. That's some hot shit!

Art is nice enough. Morph looks good.

[Novaya Havoc]

!!!!!!!!

I saw these on DeviantArt and saved it!!! This is like THREE MONTHS AGO. That's some hot shit!

Art is nice enough. Morph looks good.

Way to share and make us all look slow on the uptake, Finn-o! :p

[Joe Franklin]

I wasn't going to buy this New Exiles if Sage was going to be in it, but if my favorite Marvel character Sabretooth makes the cut, then I will buy it, and suffer through the Sage moments.

[Diablito]

Aw, Sage doesn't look good with short hair at all.

Sage doesn't look good ever.

[jester1436]

Double You Tea Eff

[jester1436]

Ahem.... Okay, I've collected myself.

Curse you Claremont for not letting Betsy go free from your death trap.

Curse you even more for keeping Sabretooth and Morph, which means death and destruction and limbo to characters I like way more. Blink better get some 616 love.

But kudos for MILF Sage. She's totally a combat ready soccer momputer. Work those capris, girl.

[Joe Franklin]

Curse you Claremont for not letting Betsy go free from your death trap.

Curse you even more for keeping Sabretooth and Morph, which means death and destruction and limbo to characters I like way more. Blink better get some 616 love.


Sabretooth is the only reason I'm going to buy it.:cool:

[Beast]

This isn't the full cast. Check Marvel Previews today. ;)

[Affinity]

Way to share and make us all look slow on the uptake, Finn-o! :p

LOLOLOL NO! I thought it was just some WELL DONE FAN ART. The "cover concept" one was not up at the time. I saved it in case I needed it for ANYTHING SOMEDAY.

[Pach!]

This isn't the full cast. Check Marvel Previews today. ;)

What does the cast look like?

[Novaya Havoc]

This isn't the full cast. Check Marvel Previews today. ;)

Spill. It's 7:30 and I now cannot ACQUIRE.

And I fig it's not the full cast. 4 ppl is laaame.

[Beast]

There's a Brotherhood/Early X-Men looking version of Rogue in the preview art.
With the short hair, the green bodysuit with black arms, and green gloves.

Also... CC chimed in on the character designs:
Dear Folks --

On a purely technical note, the design sketches refered to were some samples turned in months ago when we were running through the formative planning stages of what was then the post-100 run of the series. Obviously, a whole lot has changes since then. The pictures are nice to look at, but they're nowhere near where we are with the series, nor where we're (hopefully) going.

Sorry about that.

On the other hand, you're in for a real treat in tearms of #100, wherein Tom Grummet makes his debut on the series as penciler. To call the visuals finestkind is to do the art and that description an injustice.

And the next issue is even better!

Consider it our Xmas present.

chris claremont

[Joe Franklin]

There's a Brotherhood/Early X-Men looking version of Rogue in the preview art.
With the short hair, the green bodysuit with black arms, and green gloves.

Also... CC chimed in on the character designs:

:( :( :(

Does this mean that Sabretooth may not be in the book?

[Novaya Havoc]

There's a Brotherhood/Early X-Men looking version of Rogue in the preview art.
With the short hair, the green bodysuit with black arms, and green gloves.

Also... CC chimed in on the character designs:

I KNOW about Dreamboat CC's reaction! I blogg'd it!

And LOL at VintageRogue! TELL ME MORE.

[Harlock]

This isn't the full cast. Check Marvel Previews today. ;)

At least gimme a page number. I have the book in front of me.

[Novaya Havoc]

At least gimme a page number. I have the book in front of me.

!!! Find this, spill the info, and SCAN it for our consumption, DaddyHarlock! <3

[Beast]

At least gimme a page number. I have the book in front of me.
Page 72 for the cover. Page 73 for the preview art.

[tetragene]

:( :( :(

Does this mean that Sabretooth may not be in the book?

CC's comment sounds more like he was refering to the costumes/look--which is very "X-Force" IMHO. I doubt he's talking about the cast. He needs someone to fill his "strongman with a heart of gold" cliche--he'll keep Sabretooth.

[Beast]

Keeping Sabretooth makes a lot of sense right now. The 616 one is dead... which used to be a requirement for the cast. And CC writes the character well. I'd rather see him using tha AoA Sabretooth, who was wallpaper most of Bedard's run... then bring in an AU Wolverine. Especially since AoA Creed is more interesting.

[Joe Franklin]

Keeping Sabretooth makes a lot of sense right now. The 616 one is dead... which used to be a requirement for the cast. And CC writes the character well. I'd rather see him using tha AoA Sabretooth, who was wallpaper most of Bedard's run... then bring in an AU Wolverine.

:cool: I hope you are correct. I really like the way Claremont writes AOA Sabretooth, and he is the only reason i am buying the book. I can even put up with Sage being in the book, as long as Sabretooth is in it.

[Harlock]

!!! Find this, spill the info, and SCAN it for our consumption, DaddyHarlock! <3

Go spend $.99. Cheaper than me buying a scanner.

[Beast]

Go spend $.99. Cheaper than me buying a scanner.
It's some really nice art though, don't you agree Harlock? :)

[Joe Franklin]

Go spend $.99. Cheaper than me buying a scanner.

How does Grummett's art look?

And does it mention who is inking his art? Thanks:cool:

[Harlock]

Here is the full write up.


EXILES #100
Written by Chris Claremont
Pencils & Cover by Tom Grummett
Adios, Exiles! They've left their footprints across the multiverse for a hundred issues, but what threat will make Blink and Co. close up shop for good? It's not what you expect! And what's this we hear about an all NEW EXILES...Also! Re-presenting the classic Exiles #1 by Judd Winnick and Mike McKone!
64 PGS./Rated A ...$3.99

[Red Lotus]

Blink better get some 616 love.

.

I hope Blink is on an X-men team in the 616. The first thing I thought when they said new team was that she would leave and be a part of some x-men team.

[Go Go]

Good god. I knew Claremont would make this series bad. I tried his first issue, honest. I do try to read his stuff, really. He couldn't just bring in a Psylocke from any universe, free of all her continuity issues though. No, he had to bring in his Psylocke, and even had her bring up her convoluted existence. Exiles was dropped then and there.

Now, he's bringing on Sage as well? With her EXTREME blue blockers as well? God, you know he's going to go back to his Fury opus storyline/master story-arc/major bull$#*! with this cast. Now too, Claremont also has the ability to destroy many earths/universes with Fury this time, and not just the lakehouse at the mansion (nothing says supreme universe threat like the boathouse's destruction). At least he's not messing with the regular MU now though. I just wish he wasn't messing with what once to be a good team book (one that got better when Winnick left) that he has now taken to the crapper. Prediction: Fury storyline will "end" with a) another out of nowhere blackhole deux es machina move b) pulled off by the only person Claremont would have do it: Sagec) with a glowing eye indicating that things aren't really as over as the extreme heroes go on home d) with "fin?" at the bottom of the page.

[Go Go]

I'm sure he meant the "costumes" were rough ideas, not the cast, lol. He has to have the generic tough guy (Sabretooth), the char he has no clue how to write (Morph), and two of his pets (Psylocke & Sage).

Odds are 10:1 that Psylocke's uniform will still have that massive frontal wedgie going on. Poor girl's uniform has a higher cut then Pam Anderson's speedo on Baywatch since coming back from the dead.

[CmX]

Those designs look soooo Xtreme XMen 2.0.

Sage looks horrid... lol so does Morph and Psylocke is just getting (or supposedly was) yet another update on her tired Hand outfit.

[xmanson]

Godammit, people, someone scan that preview page already.

[Nachturne]

Just...PLEASE tell me Nocturne's not in it!!! PLEASEEEEEEEEEE

[CmX]

Just...PLEASE tell me Nocturne's not in it!!! PLEASEEEEEEEEEE

I doubt she will (hopefully) think he's done his damage with her. :(

[xmanson]

Nocturne is gonna live happily ever after with Thunderbird and lots of non-aborted babies.

[Faded]

I'VE SEEN THIS SOMEWHERE BEFORE.

Like a while ago!

The art looks nice the cast looks...far from new if this is indeed the cast. I'm just glad CC will be keeping Psylocke and Sage.

[CmX]

This cast is hardly new (let Psylocke go CC!! Argh he's killing me here!) and will he ever settle the Morph/Proteus subplot ?

[Nachturne]

Nocturne is gonna live happily ever after with Thunderbird and lots of non-aborted babies.

As long as it's far AWAY from CC, I don't care HOW many unaborted babies she has through her massive vagina. <3<3<3

[xmanson]

If Heather changes her mind about the baby, she could get some abortion tips from TJ!!!

No, really, it would be nice for TJ and TB just go live their life in peace. We hardly get any closing for comics charcaters that doesn't involve death - even in this book, so Heather's fate was quite nice to see.