New THOR run is great so far, but how can it be KEPT great? *Spoilers*

[Spiffy]

I'm current through Issue #3, so let's talk with the base assumption that we all know what's happened in those three issues, as well as the small bits of Civil War and post-Civil War tie-ins directly relevant to this.

What I'm afraid of is that JMS will completely head AWAY from what worked so well in the first two issues--the interactions with the stalwart unflappable local people in the midwest. The juxtaposition of them and Thor was simultaneously hilarious, yet in a way touching.

If this will simply be a week-by-week "Thor visits part of the M.U. and retrieves an Asgardian, then this will get tiring. As New Asgard grows, we need to have issues intermixed where they interact with the locals. This is a NECESSITY, otherwise JMS (and Thor) might as well have plopped New Asgard down on a deserted Island somewhere, or in outer space.

Also, while the occasional guest-star will be okay, I'd personally prefer it if most of the rest of the superpowered M.U. wasn't involved for a while. Stark made sense, but Thor's interactions should be with normal people for a while.

Now I'm not saying that could persist for more than a dozen issues or so, but I'd like to see that dozen before Marvel feels the need to tinker all that much. I keep in mind how (at least in my stubborn opinion) the GOOD part of JMS' Spider-Man run was when Peter was in the local high school and the BAD part was when he was dragged away from normal-life stuff and into the superhero clubhouse. While Thor is a VERY different character from Peter Parker, there are reasons for BOTH to need to be kept out of the "clubhouse".

Peter needs a "normal life" so we the readers can relate to him. He's often dragged into bigger events, but basically he's defined by personal heroism and how his normal life contrasts his superhero one.

Thor (and I'm talking for the moment about THOR, not Donald Blake), isn't normal in any sense of the word. But what's got so much POTENTIAL here is seeing Thor walking among the mortals--and by that I mean Maw and Paw America, not Captain America. Where with Peter Parker it was a mater of identifying with him, in this case it would be a matter of identifying with the people who MEET Thor. So he needs to be kept "street level", as odd as that seems for a character so overwhelmingly powerful, because THESE are the truly unexplored aspects of the character. We've seen him fight big battles and big villains a thousand times already--its been DONE. This hasn't been.

As for Donald Blake, I want him around. But the key is that BOTH Thor and Blake should interact with normal humanity at various times. Blake should often be the "cloak" Thor uses to go somewhere to investigate as Asgardian sighting, but the way we saw Thor himself deal with the farmer who owned the field, the way we also saw him deal with at least a few denizens of New Orleans, that has to continue as well.

Opinions? Agreement? Disagreement?

[Camron Amaya]

He'll find the rest of the Asgardians within the next 2 issues.

And i'd lik to see the rest of the MU noticing that Thor is actualy back.

[Kefky]

I'm not sure JMS can write a good story. The writing in these first three issues has been great, yes, and he clearly gets Thor, the character, but I don't know if that'll add up to good stories. He's still setting up stuff, and the "Oklahoma Asgard" still seems really ifffy to me. I want to like it, and I'll keep reading it as long as I'm entertained, but the minute it becomes "Thor- Hero of the oppressed!!!", I'm jumping out. That's not the Thor I wanna read about, and I don't political soapboxes.


I mean, if you're gonna do that, just get Thor to blow up the Initiative already. He's a God, so he can do that. But he needs to teleport all the slaves outta there first, 'course.

[Camron Amaya]

I'm not sure JMS can write a good story. The writing in these first three issues has been great, yes, and he clearly gets Thor, the character, but I don't know if that'll add up to good stories. He's still setting up stuff, and the "Oklahoma Asgard" still seems really ifffy to me. I want to like it, and I'll keep reading it as long as I'm entertained, but the minute it becomes "Thor- Hero of the oppressed!!!", I'm jumping out. That's not the Thor I wanna read about, and I don't political soapboxes.


I mean, if you're gonna do that, just get Thor to blow up the Initiative already. He's a God, so he can do that. But he needs to teleport all the slaves outta there first, 'course.

He was always the "hero of the opressed". His whole thing from the start was protecting Midgard. If that's not the Thor you wonna read then I guess you just don't like Thor PERIOD. I honestly think sometimes alot of people here just CRAVE for something to hate and to critisize a book on and if there isn't a real reason they come up with a hillarious one.

[Spiffy]

To be fair to JMS, I thought Thor's "I don't want to be involved" bit to Tony Stark was a great rationale for keeping him out of the various mega-events present and near future. As with Sentry, with Thor you have the "he can solve it all by himself" issue with someone of his power. I mean I don't care WHAT excuses they write to justify Hulk's almost unlimited power these days, for example--Thor should be able to beat Hulk on even one of his bad days. I can't accept otherwise.

Which is also part of why I think the "common man's Thor" is a GOOD idea for a while, to back the concept that he's deliberately uninvolving himself (with the political battles at the very least) up even more. Its not the main reason I want that (I give that reason in my first post), but its another good one.

As for the "that's not the Thor that I want" point of view from some... I respect that opinion. But my answer is stated within something I already said--the problem with the mega-powerful, mega-M.U. involved Thor is that we've SEEN it so often before. Its been done, and done to death. It is indeed probably his ultimate destiny, as such a powerhouse, to wind up back at most of the major battles to save the planet eventually, no matter how he's written as uninvolved now. But in the interim, why not explore how he interacts with the rank and file (as Thor I mean, since Blake always did)? The normal lowly humans? What I recall of Norse mythology itself even acknowledges plenty of "they walk among us" stories, and doing a modern version of that doesn't seem all that strange.

I say, let JMS do this--if indeed that's what he's trying (I actually hope so) and lets see how it works out. If this is indeed wrapped up in two or three issues and Thor is back to his usual plots and role in the M.U. by this winter, personally, I'm not sure I'd stay with the book. I want something new.

[Kefky]

He was always the "hero of the opressed". His whole thing from the start was protecting Midgard. If that's not the Thor you wonna read then I guess you just don't like Thor PERIOD. I honestly think sometimes alot of people here just CRAVE for something to hate and to critisize a book on and if there isn't a real reason they come up with a hillarious one.

Did you just ignore the part where I said I wanna like the book, and I'll keep reading it while it's good? If I was just coming up with an excuse to hate it, I would have dropped the book already.

Thor is certainly attached to Earth, but he's never been about going around and playing Jesus. The character mostly fights super-powered threads in cosmic stories. There were only two times writers tried to tell grounded Thor stories, once in the early '300's, and Jurgens' run. Granted Jurgens' run got some praise, but the former's pretty much considered one of the worst times to read Thor ever.

Either way, I'm just stating my opinion. I like Lee\Kirby, Thomas, Simonson, DeFalco Thor. Grounded Thor isn't my bag. You don't have to get angry because of that.

[BeastieRunner]

In regards to JMS, I think the new Thor run and Silver Surfer: Requiem were his two best stories in a long time. He's always been hit or miss to me (Amazing was horrid) so I personally don't think his writing is detracting from it. I'm just glad to see read a good book about a cool character that also laid the smackdown on Iron Man's ass.

[Spiffy]

Did you just ignore the part where I said I wanna like the book, and I'll keep reading it while it's good? If I was just coming up with an excuse to hate it, I would have dropped the book already.

Thor is certainly attached to Earth, but he's never been about going around and playing Jesus. The character mostly fights super-powered threads in cosmic stories. There were only two times writers tried to tell grounded Thor stories, once in the early '300's, and Jurgens' run. Granted Jurgens' run got some praise, but the former's pretty much considered one of the worst times to read Thor ever.

Either way, I'm just stating my opinion. I like Lee\Kirby, Thomas, Simonson, DeFalco Thor. Grounded Thor isn't my bag. You don't have to get angry because of that.
I agree that what he should be doing should NOT be wandering Jesus. I think I stated right up front that I don't want "Thor visits part of the M.U. and retrieves an Asgardian" month in an out.

I DO see the rationale for a quest structure--its a classic storytelling device. I get that will be part of it. What I DIDN'T want was "Thor battles someone this week and walks away with a new Asgardian at the end of each issue". Why? Because that turns this series into "Pokemon". Interspersed with the quest issues should be B plots (or entire intermission issues) where we are reminded of the decisions Thor first made in issues 1 and 2 and they continue to pay off, plotwise. Issues 1 and 2 gave us a sense of where and when--a central setting--and I'd like that to continue. I WANT to see that podunk little town from Issue 1 again. Instead of S.H.I.E.L.D. showing up at New Asgard, I'd like to see the local sheriff roll up in his patrol car and have some interaction there. Heck, I think it might even be funny if Field of Dreams style, that local field became something of a local tourist attraction. People pulling up in pickup trucks and minivans and unloading camping gear. I don't necessarily want this to be the main thrust of things, but ongoing background.

Think of JMS' Babylon 5. No matter how far flung the adventures, we had a constant sense of it as a PLACE. I want to see life inside Asgard, and I want to see some reactions outside (from more than just the U.S. government or S.H.I.E.L.D.).

I mean THINK of the comedy potential of the local blue-haired church ladies showing up protelyzing, trying to get the new residents to show up at the local church services, and then being hit with the notion that that's not gonna happen, because these people think of themselves as Gods. Played for comedy, of course, since we don't need to be hit over the head with religious debates.

And while that's going on, Thor can quest. Hopefully in a non-Jesus-like manner (or a non-"acquire the Pokemon of the week" manner as well).

[DaeJi]

I think the best way to keep Thor great is have him beat the hell out of someone who is suppost to be mega-power, like the Void.

[Camron Amaya]

Did you just ignore the part where I said I wanna like the book, and I'll keep reading it while it's good? If I was just coming up with an excuse to hate it, I would have dropped the book already.

Thor is certainly attached to Earth, but he's never been about going around and playing Jesus. The character mostly fights super-powered threads in cosmic stories. There were only two times writers tried to tell grounded Thor stories, once in the early '300's, and Jurgens' run. Granted Jurgens' run got some praise, but the former's pretty much considered one of the worst times to read Thor ever.

Either way, I'm just stating my opinion. I like Lee\Kirby, Thomas, Simonson, DeFalco Thor. Grounded Thor isn't my bag. You don't have to get angry because of that.


Wasn't angry at all. And Simonson is my favorite Thor era too.

[Magneto Rocks]

I definitely agree with the rationale that Thor shouldn't get too involved in the bigger picture right now. Partially because I hate how JMS tries to make political statements about everything, but more because he finds it impossible to make a point without demonising the opposition and havbing them act wildly out of character.

On the one hand, I do want Thor established as a badass who can take out the Hulk on a really really good day for the big green guy, but on the other... I'd like him kept on the periphery for now. Not just because JMS is writing him, but because I think there's a great set-up for a new supporting cast and whatnot down in Oklahoma, and also because.... JMS tends to write things as "One thing an issue." As in, he'll pick something, and then fill an issue with that one event. It's just his style. And it causes the book to suffer sometimes- like in Thor #3, we saw NO Donald Blake and NO Oklahoma, and frankly I'd much rather have seen some of that than the New Orleans talk and the extended Iron Man fight/threat. It causes it to feel like a less unified arc.

Plus Thor has an incredibly rich supporting cast which is virtually unmatched among the Avengers. I mean yes, Brubaker has developed a phenomenal cast for Cap, but before that, he had nothing. The Knaufs are doing the same to a degree, but before that... also nothing. But Thor has Balder, Sif, the Warriors Three (Volstagg!), Amora, even Loki from time to time, and lesser used characters like Heimdall, Vidar, Ulik, Kurse, etc. He has a vast mythology, a huge range of allies and a huge range of enemies, and I want to see all THAT explored rather than Thor being sucked into what's going on in the Marvel Universe. And that's without going into the new Oklahoma cast JMS has developed. (And incidentally, I want Jane Foster to hear and high tail it down to Oklahoma at once! The only time we've seen here in years was cameo-ing in Civil War!) Eventually yes, I'd love to see him rejoin the Avengers, but not now.

The ONLY arc I'd like to see involving other characters is one I don't think JMS could handle. Personally, I think it would be cool to have a kind of "Siege of Asgard" from government forces, but have it like Sub-Mariner where Iron Man is advising against it every step of the way and desperately trying to avert it. It could have great battle scenes, depth, character development, be a great showcase for the power of Asgard and best of all, give us a giant climatic Sentry/Thor showdown. But I'd rather not have it at all than have JMS write it given the way he writes pro-reggers.

...Anyway, that's my take on it. Fine if Thor is going to be involved in big events, but his OWN book should be focused firmly on Asgard in Oklahoma and revamping and redefining his villains and allies. That's the Thor I want to read.

[Dusty.]

Well, the Quesada Marvel has shown that they are completely clueless about the character, which is why the last series was cancelled. I have no faith in them, despite really enjoying the early issues. If Coipel is gone after 6 issues, Marvel is showing what retards they can be, because the musical artist series that Tom Brevoort used to edit shedded readers alarming fast, and he didn't care or didn't have the sense to know what he was doing wrong. If that starts again, Thor will nosedive in quality and sales. I foresee mediocrity the minute that inconsistant kind of crap starts. I would compare it to the mediocrity that Iron-Man's new series currently enjoys. The series has no real star talent and it isn't consistant. I don't trust Marvel. They had all the lead time in the world, and they are STILL going to show how unprofessional they can be. That is how I see it if the current team is for an "arc"...

[Arilou]

I think what is needed is that sometimes, now and then, he gets smacked down.

HARD.

Preferably in a credible way (there are very few people who can do that though)

Doesen't have to be physical even, but after some building up we need to be shown that he isn't invincible: otherwise it gets boring as ****.

[firstmode]

Thor and Sentry need to have a conversation or two about how they feel about eachother and if they are friends or if they will have a huge future battle.

ALSO! Sentry and Thor need to get into World War Hulk!

[XPac]

I can see Thor for the time being dealing with internal matters rather than addressing the many problems of the world as a whole.

That said, JMS dropped Asgard in the middle of US territory in a time when superhuman parania seems to be running rampant in the governtment if not the public.

Thor can't be an isolationist indefinately... it would be impossible given the sitiation he created. Even his "buddy" Stark seems to be only accepting that current situation for now.

As for a fight between Sentry and Thor... I imagine it would likely be about as exciting as the titanic struggle we got between Black Bolt and Sentry in Silent War. Sentry's not going to bother with Thor unless Thor does something bad enought to truelly warrent it. Even then he might not bother, as we saw with Black Bolt.

[Camron Amaya]

I think what is needed is that sometimes, now and then, he gets smacked down.

HARD.

Preferably in a credible way (there are very few people who can do that though)

Doesen't have to be physical even, but after some building up we need to be shown that he isn't invincible: otherwise it gets boring as ****.

Yea it doesn't always have to be physical but just a failure period. Misjudgment or mistake or whatever. I think the kind of mistakes he made in Spiral hurt more then a physical beat down anyway lol.

[XPac]

Yea it doesn't always have to be physical but just a failure period. Misjudgment or mistake or whatever. I think the kind of mistakes he made in Spiral hurt more then a physical beat down anyway lol.

Unlike some uber powerful characters, like Superman for example, Thor actually has a pretty respectable rogues gallery.

He's a god that fights other gods. So him having trouble isn't TOO hard. Plus, most cosmic threats casually cross over onto his lap too, since he's one of earths big guns (arguably the biggest).

[Magneto Rocks]

Right. It's not like Hulk where many of his enemies shouldn't be in his league physically, Thor has QUITE a few who can smack him down. I mean, in all he has a pretty damn impressive rogues gallery, including- off the top of my head- Ulik, Fenris, Amora (potentially), Kurse, the Dark Gods- Perikkus, Zelia etc, Surtur, Loki, Malekith, Mangog, Desak, etc without even going into lower levellers like Absorbing Man or the Wrecking Crew, or the giant cosmic ones like Galactus or Thanos or whoever he beats up from time to time.

I mean, there's a lot less shame in being beaten by, say, Thanos, than by Abomination for example. Personally, I like new villains being added... but not Clor. I'd rather Clor was forgotten forever as a hideous mistake by Millar (a very very very rare one) rather than used as a recurring foe.

Yea it doesn't always have to be physical but just a failure period. Misjudgment or mistake or whatever. I think the kind of mistakes he made in Spiral hurt more then a physical beat down anyway lol.

I know a lot of people dislike Jurgens' run, but I feel that while it ambled a bit early on, from "The Death of Odin" onwards it was fantastic, and the whole Spiral arc was complex and well developed, leading into "The Reigning" which had been hinted at for over 30 issues beforehand. It ended way too abruptly, because of Disassembled though, and while I did love Oeming's Disassembled, I always wished Jurgens had been able to finish Thor as he wanted to- I remember he was going to do an arc called "Redemption" after The Reigning, which would have been interesting indeed.

It's worth nothing that from, say, Death of Odin until Desak arrives in "Gods and Men", Thor NEVER recieves a physical beating. He gets nuked once, and there's a flashback battle with him and half the marvel universe, but there's never a real-time Thor battle which he loses, or even seems that troubled by, give or take a few early things. And yet the book is never even CLOSE to boring because of the complex themes melded into it.

[Bulky Brent]

Clor wasn't really so much as a mistake I wouldn't mind if they reinvented Clor a Thor Mirror match would be quite interesting.If Stark does continue to feud with Thor over not joining the Registration act and tries to take Asgard from Thor their is still a possibility that Clor will be revamped.

Either Stark has does have S.H.I.E.L.D and 142 registered superheroes at his disposal so I seriously doubt he will resort to this.A Thor/Sentry showdown would be great to see given the right reasons,but Asgard should be restablished first before all of this is to take place.

I agree with Magneto Rocks though JMS shouldn't forget about Donald Blake and the new cast he created for Thor I don't mind a lot of Thor action but I find Donald Blake interesting as well he should be focused on also especially during the downtime issues.

[XPac]

Clor wasn't really so much as a mistake I wouldn't mind if they reinvented Clor a Thor Mirror match would be quite interesting.If Stark does continue to feud with Thor over not joining the Registration act and tries to take Asgard from Thor their is still a possibility that Clor will be revamped.

Either Stark has does have S.H.I.E.L.D and 142 registered superheroes at his disposal so I seriously doubt he will resort to this.A Thor/Sentry showdown would be great to see given the right reasons,but Asgard should be restablished first before all of this is to take place.

I agree with Magneto Rocks though JMS shouldn't forget about Donald Blake and the new cast he created for Thor I don't mind a lot of Thor action but I find Donald Blake interesting as well he should be focused on also especially during the downtime issues.

Yeah, Clor is definately something Tony might want to dig out of the closet if he decides he wants to take care of Thor. He's likely have to upgrade Thor of course... if Clor can't take Hercules then he's got no chance in hell of beating the real Thor.

Course, using Clor against Thor would likely be the most jerkish move Tony could possibly do against Thor... but after the whole trick using Caps death to trap the New Avengers, that alone won't be enough of a reason not to do it.

[Kefky]

Why do you people think there should be clones in the marvel universe? That makes me so sad!

*sits in a corner and cries*

[Lightbend]

I say tie it into the myths, if they use Clor.

This was in an earlier thread where it was suggested Clor is an actual aesir:


Odin had one last son. He ran in less than an hour. He killed in his first day. His purpose was only bloody vengeance and death.

He was Vali, the last son of Asgard-

And when Clor is finally unleashed against Thor, everyone finds that he does not lay a hand upon Thor, as he is revealed to be Odin's final son, and welcomed into Asgard.

[Kefky]

I say tie it into the myths, if they use Clor.

This was in an earlier thread where it was suggested Clor is an actual aesir:


Odin had one last son. He ran in less than an hour. He killed in his first day. His purpose was only bloody vengeance and death.

He was Vali, the last son of Asgard-

And when Clor is finally unleashed against Thor, everyone finds that he does not lay a hand upon Thor, as he is revealed to be Odin's final son, and welcomed into Asgard.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/Vonn_Hennigar/Blammo.gif

[XPac]

Why do you people think there should be clones in the marvel universe? That makes me so sad!

*sits in a corner and cries*

Does the fact that Clor is a Cyborg/Clone make you feel any better about it?

[Kefky]

Does the fact that Clor is a Cyborg/Clone make you feel any better about it?

Why do they call it a clone when it's not a clone?!?

*bangs head against wall*

[XPac]

Why do they call it a clone when it's not a clone?!?

*bangs head against wall*

Clone seems a lot simpler to say than Cyborg clone. Some level of cloning was involved since Stark used Thor's DNA, but there were obviously mechanical elements to him as well.

I wouldn't say one is innately worse than the other... but if nothing else labeling a clone is a time saver.

[Will.S]

As long as the book keeps doing what it's doing and JMS continues to build then it'll be good for a long time. There's still a butt load to establish and bring back into the fold again such as Loki, Midgard Serpent, Malekith (if they bring them back in such forms), the various fictitious lands, new villains like Clor and maybe even other new villains, etc.

JMS is terrific at bringing new stuff into the table and mixing it in with the established so I think it's gonna be in good hands. I only worry about Coipel's stay on the book as I'm hoping for it to be a good long run.

[sabongero]

The last time I've read up on Thor was during Walt Simonson's defining run of the Thunder God. It just had that classic feel like this is what you will remember of the Mighty Thor. He had a great supporting cast. And Loki was great as the ever-conspiring brother of half-brother.

Then the addition of Beta Ray Bill...what a creation! I still remember and have that issue #337. What a great cover !!!

If JMS will indeed bring back the Asgardian gods, then I hope he brings the whole ensemble cast and utilize them in his vision of writing great stories.

[Kyle_Ion]

Well, the Quesada Marvel has shown that they are completely clueless about the character, which is why the last series was cancelled. I have no faith in them, despite really enjoying the early issues. If Coipel is gone after 6 issues, Marvel is showing what retards they can be, because the musical artist series that Tom Brevoort used to edit shedded readers alarming fast, and he didn't care or didn't have the sense to know what he was doing wrong. If that starts again, Thor will nosedive in quality and sales. I foresee mediocrity the minute that inconsistant kind of crap starts. I would compare it to the mediocrity that Iron-Man's new series currently enjoys. The series has no real star talent and it isn't consistant. I don't trust Marvel. They had all the lead time in the world, and they are STILL going to show how unprofessional they can be. That is how I see it if the current team is for an "arc"...

I am reading the second series and so far I quite like it. Right Now I'm reading the Reigning and I'm quite surprised. I think that the last god that should come back is Odin. On a side note do you think that Thor will bring Loki back to the living once he finds where Loki has been residing? I'm not sure that he will, but that is just me.

[Kefky]

I am reading the second series and so far I quite like it. Right Now I'm reading the Reigning and I'm quite surprised. I think that the last god that should come back is Odin. On a side note do you think that Thor will bring Loki back to the living once he finds where Loki has been residing? I'm not sure that he will, but that is just me.

I think JMS will play the "every hero needs his arch-nemesis" card there. Thor will find Loki, spend the entire issue thinking whether he should be "awakened", and then bring him back anyhow.

[Bulky Brent]

I'm dying to see the return of Loki (my favorite Thor villain) as well but I don't think it will happen any soon it's all about timing now is really the best time or oppritunity to bring back Loki.

Beta Ray Bill is another character I would be thrilled to see again even though he is not a real Asgardian. I would love too see how Coipel would draw him depends Oeming still has rights to the character and if hes willing to give him up.Were getting way ahead of ourselves here it's only been 3 issues.

[Will.S]

I hope that whenever Loki shows up again that Coipel sticks to Loki's design that was used in his own mini series by Esad Ribic.

http://www.fantasymagazine.it/imgbank/ARTICOLI/0785116524.01._sclzzzzzzz_.jpg

[Dusty.]

I hope Loki is like Simonson's version. Walt played Loki as a slimey worm of a schemer, who sat in his evil castle plotting his power play. He would fight on the side of Asgard if it suited his needs. A backstabber. Manipulative. Sadistic. Cunning. When was the last time Marvel even showed Loki in his castle in Thor's comic? I can't remember a time since Walt was on the book.

[Kyle_Ion]

you know i've been wondering if the asgardian gods he brings back remebers all of the things he's done in the past. I especially want to know if Loki remembers what Thor done during the Ragnarok mini during the last series?

[Camron Amaya]

you know i've been wondering if the asgardian gods he brings back remebers all of the things he's done in the past. I especially want to know if Loki remembers what Thor done during the Ragnarok mini during the last series?

I don't see why they wouldn't. They've been restored to who they always were. If their minds were just blank how would they be of any use?

[Trey]

I think JMS will play the "every hero needs his arch-nemesis" card there. Thor will find Loki, spend the entire issue thinking whether he should be "awakened", and then bring him back anyhow.

Loki will awaken on his own. He doesn't need Thor to find him. He will be the Big Bad at the end of the first arc.

[Kefky]

Loki will awaken on his own. He doesn't need Thor to find him. He will be the Big Bad at the end of the first arc.

By "the end of the first arc" do you mean issue 6? Because virtually nobody'll back then, so I wouldn't see the point of a Thor vs. Loki fight...

[overcomebyfumes]

We're only three issues into the run folks. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but JMS's track record isn't really that good.

Supreme Power was fantastic three issues in and look how that ended up - it just kind of meandered around until it died. JMS's Amazing Spider-Man started off strong... and look how that ended up. JMS's Fantastic Four didn't even start off any good. Don't get me started on "Strange" or anything he wrote during Civil War.

I love Thor and I have for a long time. But I look back on what JMS has done previously and I can see where this is going - either endless set-up for little or no pay off (Supreme Power), or a badly thought-out re-imagining of the character (the Spider Totem and "Sins Past").

I dearly dearly HOPE it doesn't play out like that, and that JMS is able to handle the title with the imagination, creativity, and respect that Thor deserves, but at the same time, based on past experience, I know the train-wreck may be coming around the bend.

I am hopeful, but I also fear.

pax.

[Kefky]

I'm nowhere near as pessimistic about JMS' writing as you, but I will say that it's impossible(at least for me) to judge if this is going to be a good run or not considering how slowly JMS is setting up the new status quo. I mean, what if when Asgard's all set-up and fully populated, Thor goes off on his first adventure, and it effin' sucks? Not a nice feeling.

[Camron Amaya]

We're only three issues into the run folks. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but JMS's track record isn't really that good.

Supreme Power was fantastic three issues in and look how that ended up - it just kind of meandered around until it died. JMS's Amazing Spider-Man started off strong... and look how that ended up. JMS's Fantastic Four didn't even start off any good. Don't get me started on "Strange" or anything he wrote during Civil War.

I love Thor and I have for a long time. But I look back on what JMS has done previously and I can see where this is going - either endless set-up for little or no pay off (Supreme Power), or a badly thought-out re-imagining of the character (the Spider Totem and "Sins Past").

I dearly dearly HOPE it doesn't play out like that, and that JMS is able to handle the title with the imagination, creativity, and respect that Thor deserves, but at the same time, based on past experience, I know the train-wreck may be coming around the bend.

I am hopeful, but I also fear.

pax.

He's also written tons of good stuff that you didn't mention.

[Spiffy]

Wow. After disagreeing with M.R. a ton in the recent past on a ton of stuff (especially Iron Man), suddenly we share a brain (and some opinions).

I definitely agree with the rationale that Thor shouldn't get too involved in the bigger picture right now. Partially because I hate how JMS tries to make political statements about everything, but more because he finds it impossible to make a point without demonising the opposition and havbing them act wildly out of character.

On the one hand, I do want Thor established as a badass who can take out the Hulk on a really really good day for the big green guy, but on the other... I'd like him kept on the periphery for now. Not just because JMS is writing him, but because I think there's a great set-up for a new supporting cast and whatnot down in Oklahoma, and also because.... JMS tends to write things as "One thing an issue." As in, he'll pick something, and then fill an issue with that one event. It's just his style. And it causes the book to suffer sometimes- like in Thor #3, we saw NO Donald Blake and NO Oklahoma, and frankly I'd much rather have seen some of that than the New Orleans talk and the extended Iron Man fight/threat. It causes it to feel like a less unified arc.
Right. The Oklahoma stuff was magical. It was like JMS rolled back the years and returned to the writer I really respected for his earlier work.

I didn't MIND Issue 3 that much, but I had some real hesitations about where its headed, and how it almost seemed to forget the great stuff established in the first two issues.

Plus Thor has an incredibly rich supporting cast which is virtually unmatched among the Avengers. I mean yes, Brubaker has developed a phenomenal cast for Cap, but before that, he had nothing. The Knaufs are doing the same to a degree, but before that... also nothing. But Thor has Balder, Sif, the Warriors Three (Volstagg!), Amora, even Loki from time to time, and lesser used characters like Heimdall, Vidar, Ulik, Kurse, etc. He has a vast mythology, a huge range of allies and a huge range of enemies, and I want to see all THAT explored rather than Thor being sucked into what's going on in the Marvel Universe. And that's without going into the new Oklahoma cast JMS has developed. (And incidentally, I want Jane Foster to hear and high tail it down to Oklahoma at once! The only time we've seen here in years was cameo-ing in Civil War!) Eventually yes, I'd love to see him rejoin the Avengers, but not now.
Right. And I still think the potential juxtaposition between these "gods" and the locals can be GOLD for this series (and the subject of whether or not they are actual "gods" or just beings powerful enough to declare themselves such is rich for exploration too).

The book needs to have some balls and explore the culture clash. Yes, that makes the series less "action" oriented, but I for one couldn't care less. The book needs a spine to build on before you can send Thor off to the battle of the month. Don't waste this great new setting. And don't waste the existing Thor supporting cast either. Sure, you might think Thor finding them is good use of them, but its not enough if once they return to Asgard we don't hear from them again. Life in Asgard, as it comes back to life, and life in the surrounding Oklahoma area has to feature here. To NOT do so would be a crime. To balance this out, we don't have to SEE every Thor quest to recover a Pokemon, er... I mean an Asgardian. Some issues can just skip time and imply he found more in the interim. Some can explore what the others do while Thor is out a-questing. Mix it up.

The ONLY arc I'd like to see involving other characters is one I don't think JMS could handle. Personally, I think it would be cool to have a kind of "Siege of Asgard" from government forces, but have it like Sub-Mariner where Iron Man is advising against it every step of the way and desperately trying to avert it. It could have great battle scenes, depth, character development, be a great showcase for the power of Asgard and best of all, give us a giant climatic Sentry/Thor showdown. But I'd rather not have it at all than have JMS write it given the way he writes pro-reggers.
Here's my take. If we HAVE to see the "official" side, I'd like to see it from the point of view of the locals. As I said previously, the local cops. And maybe the LOCAL Initiative branch FOR THAT STATE ONLY. Play things off of them dealing with the locals as well. I can imagine the moments when some local shrugs at the nosy out of towner and says "they don't bother us none", referring to the Asgardians. But this shouldn't be the point of the book--at best it could be a bit of filler at one point.

...Anyway, that's my take on it. Fine if Thor is going to be involved in big events, but his OWN book should be focused firmly on Asgard in Oklahoma and revamping and redefining his villains and allies. That's the Thor I want to read.
Agreed.

[Wolf-Man]

Loki Stark perhaps?

[overcomebyfumes]

He's also written tons of good stuff that you didn't mention.

...and you give no examples. If he's written anything good for Marvel I'd like to know about it, especially given that for some reason he's considered to be one of Marvel's top scribes.

I mean, yes, ASM and Supreme Power started strong and showed a lot of promise, but they both eventually faltered. Supreme Power being all set up and no pay off, and ASM increasingly swamped with bad ideas (Sins Past and The Other) and painfully awful writing (The Other, Civil War). I'm waiting to read Back in Black and One More Day in trades, so I can't comment on them yet. Maybe he will redeem himself for the finale'. I can only hope.

Of the things that JMS has written that I have read, I would rate the beginning of his tenure at ASM as being the best - there are actually good stories there; I will grant him that - and his Civil War issues of ASM and FF as the worst. Particularily anything involving Tony Stark. Reeds "I'm a McCarthy-ite" speech is a real low point. I have never read anything more awful or more disrespectful of character and continuity in a Marvel comic.

I didn't mention Silver Surfer: Requiem because I haven't read it. I have heard mixed reviews of it. I have heard some say that it's his best writing, but I've also heard that the religious theme is too glaringly obvious and overdone. I don't like "The End"-type stories and the thought of JMS writing the Silver Surfer nauseates me. I will be avoiding it. I can only comment on stories I've actually read.

If you're referring to the TV show Babylon 5, I tried watching it a couple of years ago and couldn't stand it. Didn't make it even three episodes into season 1. This was before I was exposed to any of his work at Marvel, so I wasn't even an hater then. It's not Marvel anyway, so it's not really relevant. He could be the best TV script writer or novelist in the world, but if he can't write comics, that doesn't do Thor any good. Example: Charlie Huston is a fine novelist, but he's pretty much made a mess of Moonknight (also after a strong start, coincidently enough).

What else has he written at Marvel that I've missed? I'm pretty sure I've covered all the bases - ASM, the disasterous FF run, Supreme Power, Strange, Thor. What have I missed?

How To Keep The New Thor Great: Enough editoral control to know when JMS should be taken off the book. As long as he's writing well, fine, leave him to it. I have no problem with that. My problem is with bad writing, not JMS per se. If JMS's Thor run stays strong, maybe I'll be singing his praises this time next year. I would love for that to happen. I did really like his characterization of Loki when he showed up in ASM. JMS does seem to "get" the Asgardians. This is where I draw my hope from.

But if he starts slipping up like he has in the past, have another writer ready to take over.

pax.

[Spiffy]

Well, at the very least we want it to be better than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgbsV6aTHts

Chuckle.

[XPac]

...and you give no examples. If he's written anything good for Marvel I'd like to know about it, especially given that for some reason he's considered to be one of Marvel's top scribes.

I mean, yes, ASM and Supreme Power started strong and showed a lot of promise, but they both eventually faltered. Supreme Power being all set up and no pay off, and ASM increasingly swamped with bad ideas (Sins Past and The Other) and painfully awful writing (The Other, Civil War). I'm waiting to read Back in Black and One More Day in trades, so I can't comment on them yet. Maybe he will redeem himself for the finale'. I can only hope.

Of the things that JMS has written that I have read, I would rate the beginning of his tenure at ASM as being the best - there are actually good stories there; I will grant him that - and his Civil War issues of ASM and FF as the worst. Particularily anything involving Tony Stark. Reeds "I'm a McCarthy-ite" speech is a real low point. I have never read anything more awful or more disrespectful of character and continuity in a Marvel comic.

I didn't mention Silver Surfer: Requiem because I haven't read it. I have heard mixed reviews of it. I have heard some say that it's his best writing, but I've also heard that the religious theme is too glaringly obvious and overdone. I don't like "The End"-type stories and the thought of JMS writing the Silver Surfer nauseates me. I will be avoiding it. I can only comment on stories I've actually read.

If you're referring to the TV show Babylon 5, I tried watching it a couple of years ago and couldn't stand it. Didn't make it even three episodes into season 1. This was before I was exposed to any of his work at Marvel, so I wasn't even an hater then. It's not Marvel anyway, so it's not really relevant. He could be the best TV script writer or novelist in the world, but if he can't write comics, that doesn't do Thor any good. Example: Charlie Huston is a fine novelist, but he's pretty much made a mess of Moonknight (also after a strong start, coincidently enough).

What else has he written at Marvel that I've missed? I'm pretty sure I've covered all the bases - ASM, the disasterous FF run, Supreme Power, Strange, Thor. What have I missed?

How To Keep The New Thor Great: Enough editoral control to know when JMS should be taken off the book. As long as he's writing well, fine, leave him to it. I have no problem with that. My problem is with bad writing, not JMS per se. If JMS's Thor run stays strong, maybe I'll be singing his praises this time next year. I would love for that to happen. I did really like his characterization of Loki when he showed up in ASM. JMS does seem to "get" the Asgardians. This is where I draw my hope from.

But if he starts slipping up like he has in the past, have another writer ready to take over.

pax.

You really have to watch Babylon 5 at least 2 seasons into it in order to appreciate how GREAT a series it was. I honstly found the first season to be kinda boring... but by the third season I realized it was one of the best written sci-fi's I had ever seen. The slow layered build up was an incredible ride. Or at least that's what I though... to each their own.

As for JMS... like any writer, I personally have liked some stuff and disliked others. I was a big fan of the MAX title Supreme Powers. I am enjoying Thor so far, and I liked some of the stuff he did in Spiderman. His Aunt May revelation, I thought, was very well done.

Ultimately, this sort of thing is subjective.

[Will.S]

What else has he written at Marvel that I've missed? I'm pretty sure I've covered all the bases - ASM, the disasterous FF run, Supreme Power, Strange, Thor. What have I missed?
I enjoyed his Amazing Spider-Man run a great deal and Supreme Power was great. Really, the only book that was just average to mediocre was his Fantatic Four. I didn't read Dr. Strange but that's pretty much a movie script made into a comic project.

The only other person I could see taking over for JMS is Mike Oeming but JMS is doing a pretty good job already so it's way too pre-mature to start talking about replacements. And even then JMS seems to want to stick to the title for the long haul.

[Lombardo!]

loving the new series so far - Coipel better not leave this book - EVER

just wondering though if and how JMS will write-in Thor's attitude and whole persona once he's established a content Asgard...

at the moment Thor is stern, serious, almost dark, straight to the point, etc.
but what happens once the Asgardians are restored? surely his voice will have to change somehow.

most of all, though, and pretty much what kept me on the book was the first issue. i was so impressed by #1 - imagine bringing back Thor, one of Marvel's main and iconic heroes, from the dead, from not having a book on the stands in over 2-3 years, in ONE ISSUE. i was gobsmacked - i was expecting some drawn out, 6 issue arc long "Return Of Thor", etc. and surely it must have been tempting for Marvel to do so. But thankfully JMS and Coipel must have had some pull there, and knew this would be a popular decision.

So i am impressed immensely. keep up the wonderful work guys.

[Kefky]

Loki Stark perhaps?

Man, I hadn't even thought of that... Loki could make a real mess out of this situation with the Initiative.

[Spiffy]

So according to the solicits I've now read, JMS really DOES plan on getting through most of the god-retrieving within 5 issues.

While I didn't want the title to become "retrieval of the month", I'm also wary of getting through that stage so quickly. It seems an awful lot like a setup to thrust Thor back into the main M.U. mainstream quickly, and I've already discussed why I don't think that's a good idea.

Also, with Asgard quickly back and intact, will they even keep it in Oklahoma anyway? And it would be a loss, storywise, if its not. But the moment Thor is back to his mainstream M.U. role, the current setting will probably fade into irrelevance.

[Camron Amaya]

So according to the solicits I've now read, JMS really DOES plan on getting through most of the god-retrieving within 5 issues.

While I didn't want the title to become "retrieval of the month", I'm also wary of getting through that stage so quickly. It seems an awful lot like a setup to thrust Thor back into the main M.U. mainstream quickly, and I've already discussed why I don't think that's a good idea.

Also, with Asgard quickly back and intact, will they even keep it in Oklahoma anyway? And it would be a loss, storywise, if its not. But the moment Thor is back to his mainstream M.U. role, the current setting will probably fade into irrelevance.

If he can even come close to Walt it'll be aight. He managed to have Thor involved on Earth and in Asgard both. Although it was more so in Asgard I admit.

[Spiffy]

If he can even come close to Walt it'll be aight. He managed to have Thor involved on Earth and in Asgard both. Although it was more so in Asgard I admit.
Well this time around, assuming Asgard stays where it is, you've got much greater story possibilities with ALL of the Asgardians mixing with normal Earth humans. And part of what I've been saying is that I don't want that skimped on, simply to return to endless stories about Thor bopping around with the rest of the superhero clubhouse. I don't want Asgard, its new location, and the consequences of that, to fade into the background.

[Will.S]

Well this time around, assuming Asgard stays where it is, you've got much greater story possibilities with ALL of the Asgardians mixing with normal Earth humans. And part of what I've been saying is that I don't want that skimped on, simply to return to endless stories about Thor bopping around with the rest of the superhero clubhouse. I don't want Asgard, its new location, and the consequences of that, to fade into the background.
Given the rebirth of Thor and his world, it's going to be much harder to get into the purely Asgardian content that was abundant in the Kirby and Simonson runs since they haven't been implemented yet outside of the actual city of Asgard itself and Heimdall.

Before they had the benefit of a whole dimension all by itself to explore since it surrounded earth but was also in another physical plane at the same time. I hope to see that kind of stuff pop up soon but I'm curious as to where it's going to happen. Like are the Frost Giants going to be given a dedicated land like Niffleheim or will they resurface in a place fitting for earth like Antarctica, North Pole/Greenland, Alaska etc. ?

[Kyle_Ion]

I know what they could do they can bring back . They could also finally give the Asgardians Immortality like the olympians, of course you'd be able to kill the gods thru combat or murder but make it where they can't die of old age or aging effects.

Odin (I know people disagree on this)
Freya
Frigga
Hela
Loki
Sif
Tyr
Lorelei
Amora

and any other asgardian gods they choose to bring back

[Lord S]

Marvel really screws up sometimes...and when they do, they do it big time. But when they get something right, they REALLY get it right. Ie. this series...which IMO is the BEST book going right now! Issue #3 was pulse-pounding...especially when Thor grabbed Tony by the neck and talked down to him.

Of course a showdown between Thor and Sentry is inevitable...but I hope for it to be a nonphysical confrontation, as the dialog between the two would be more interesting than an actual fight at this early a stage. Any fight between the two should be saved for a big crossover or something where the line between good and bad is more clearly defined...cause it's never fun to watch two good guys fight...they never go all out.

[Magneto Rocks]

Y'know, I love Thor as much as (probably more than) the next guy, and I've loved the relaunch so far too, but it'll take more than one slugdown to convince me it's the best book, or even in the top five. I reckon it can settle there, but I still don't think it's at the level of, say, Captain America or Green Lantern. Anything short of that though.

[Kyle_Ion]

Y'know, I love Thor as much as (probably more than) the next guy, and I've loved the relaunch so far too, but it'll take more than one slugdown to convince me it's the best book, or even in the top five. I reckon it can settle there, but I still don't think it's at the level of, say, Captain America or Green Lantern. Anything short of that though.

I already think that this new book is in the top 5 but I think it can do way better than it is doing now. What I think it can do to be better is to bring back everything Asgard ie midgard serpent, surtur, all of the lands that houses the enemies of asgard and allies.

[Camron Amaya]

I already think that this new book is in the top 5 but I think it can do way better than it is doing now. What I think it can do to be better is to bring back everything Asgard ie midgard serpent, surtur, all of the lands that houses the enemies of asgard and allies.

I disagree, I don't want the exact same thing with th exact same characters that's been done for the last 40 year,no matter how much I loved it.

[Kyle_Ion]

I wouldn't mind seeing the dark gods again, they could be a constant thorn in thor's side etc

[Camron Amaya]

I think it would be cool to see some familiar villains, used again but in new and creative ways, but I also think it's time to invent some classic NEW villains as well. There's only so many times we can see Mangog and Thor go at it before Thor teleports him somewhere or erases him from existence or something lol.

[Kyle_Ion]

I think it would be cool to see some familiar villains, used again but in new and creative ways, but I also think it's time to invent some classic NEW villains as well. There's only so many times we can see Mangog and Thor go at it before Thor teleports him somewhere or erases him from existence or something lol.

I disagree. I want to see the classic gods and villians all over again.

[Funkdmonkey]

I dread the day a new artist comes to the book. Coipel is really a incredible artist and I could see this book going in different directions if it hadn't been for him.

[Spiffy]

I disagree. I want to see the classic gods and villians all over again.
He wasn't suggesting we never see the classics again, just that we get plenty of new ones as well.

I'm thinking there's a divide we are never going to cross here. Some of us want the comic recreated exactly as it used to be. Some of us don't.

[Camron Amaya]

He wasn't suggesting we never see the classics again, just that we get plenty of new ones as well.

I'm thinking there's a divide we are never going to cross here. Some of us want the comic recreated exactly as it used to be. Some of us don't.

Right. And I'm saying back in the day these villains were new too you know. They introduced new characters all the time and they're classic today. It's not like they were always magicly there. Why should they stop forever now? Who made the rule that after a certain point new villains can't be created anymore?

[Kyle_Ion]

I don't know if these two have met and interacted with each other but I'd like to see Thor and his mother Gaea meet and interact with each other.

[Jinxer]

I have to agree with Thor wanting to sit out for a while. He has the task of effectively rebuilding heaven. I can't wait to see what kinds of other people are sleeper Asgardians waiting to be reawakened.

Also, Thor could take out Hulk, no contest. Hulk may be powered by 'angry' but Thor is a GOD.

[Will.S]

I don't know if these two have met and interacted with each other but I'd like to see Thor and his mother Gaea meet and interact with each other.
Well they've met in the Roy Thomas Thor Eternals Saga but I'd love to see them together again as well.

[Kyle_Ion]

Well they've met in the Roy Thomas Thor Eternals Saga but I'd love to see them together again as well.

thanks. See I didn't know that, though I like to think of myself as a huge Thor fan

[Will.S]

I dread the day a new artist comes to the book. Coipel is really a incredible artist and I could see this book going in different directions if it hadn't been for him.
I feel the same way.

thanks. See I didn't know that, though I like to think of myself as a huge Thor fan
No problem.

Honestly the Thor: Eternals Saga is dense to the point of insanity so with all the stuff going on in those books I can't blame anyone for not wanting to read it or ignoring it. In fact it took me probably a week of reading the two books and putting it down in various periods of reading since it was so much to take in. It was exhausting and the story felt like it was never going to end.

Then when it did end, it was on such a jarring note. But with all that aside, don't let that get in the way of reading it. It's still a pretty interesting and compelling read with lots of important Thor origin(s) stuff.

BTW, SWEEET Marvel Select Thor figure:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wizarduniverse_1968_794402645

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wizarduniverse_1968_794428017

[Kyle_Ion]

I feel the same way.


No problem.

Honestly the Thor: Eternals Saga is dense to the point of insanity so with all the stuff going on in those books I can't blame anyone for not wanting to read it or ignoring it. In fact it took me probably a week of reading the two books and putting it down in various periods of reading since it was so much to take in. It was exhausting and the story felt like it was never going to end.

Then when it did end, it was on such a jarring note. But with all that aside, don't let that get in the way of reading it. It's still a pretty interesting and compelling read with lots of important Thor origin(s) stuff.

BTW, SWEEET Marvel Select Thor figure:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wizarduniverse_1968_794402645

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wizarduniverse_1968_794428017

you know I wonder if his mom is proud of him being the king of asgard now. I also wonder what did she think of him becoming a dictator in his second series.

[CaptainCanada]

Most importantly, ban JMS from bringing Iron Man into the title, even by inference.

[DaeJi]

Where do people keep getting images of all these toys?! That Thor looks AMAZING!!

[Expletive Deleted]

Where do people keep getting images of all these toys?! That Thor looks AMAZING!!Lots of places. I like Marvelous News (http://marvelousnews.com/), myself.

[XPac]

Most importantly, ban JMS from bringing Iron Man into the title, even by inference.

I don't know... a good arguement can be made that bringing Iron Man into the book created the funnest issue so far.

It's not a card you can overplay since Thor for now really does need to do his own thing... but there's still clearly issues there that need to be addressed.

[DaeJi]

I don't know... a good arguement can be made that bringing Iron Man into the book created the funnest issue so far.

It's not a card you can overplay since Thor for now really does need to do his own thing... but there's still clearly issues there that need to be addressed.

As fun as it was to see Thor completely ruin a character as powerful as Ironman with such ease... I like issue #2 better. It was funnier.