Hal Jordan & Arisia / Question

[sabongero]

Just reading up on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arisia_(comics)

Okay Arisia was supposed to be a teenager. And Hal Jordan had a relationship with her. An din the recent volume of Green Lantern in issue #13, her age was retconned to be a couple of hundred Earth years old. This was due to the elongated orbit of her planet around their two suns.

However, she still looked like a teenager. She had a crush on Hal Jordan. So she willed her ring to age her physically. Hal and her eventually had a relationship. There were some fans who had an uproar over Hal Jordan having relationships with a minor.

What do you guys think ? Was the retcon enough to absolve Hal Jordan's cradle-robbing? Or not?

[Jack Zodiac]

There was nothing worthwhile about the character when she first appeared, and that hasn't changed at all today, so I'm oppose to them being a couple just on the fact that she's a nothing character. If Geoff wants to introduce a woman in Hal's life, she's gotta' be more compelling that a "barely legal alien chick," or a "hot jet pilot cowgirl." Depth of character's what they need.

[dreyga2000]

She is an alien... which in itself kinda of weird considering there aren't even the same species... Age is associated with maturity but do same principles truly apply with someone of extrarestrial* biology? Growth patterns and relative lifespans from one planet to another are bound to have vast differences. Then you factor in differnces of culture and so forth.

When dating aliens one should just toss the rule book...




In addition she is after all a GL. She's able to rsk her life against endless hordes of homicidal aliens not to mention wield the most powerful and perhaphs most dangerous weapon in the universe... but is unable to make choices about who she chooses to date seems kinda ridiculous.

[StoneGold]

I think mostly, it's just funny. Like Supergirl dating the horse. OK, so he isn't really a horse, and he wasn't a horse when they were dating, but it doesn't change the fact that she was dating the horse.

[joint venture]

Fine by me.

That character design is awesome, the fact that she adds character to a book by being in a relationship and not just being a GL is cool. Hal deserves a nice chick, this is the nicest around since Soranik natu. So long as she doesn't suffer the Katma Tui fate, she's fine for me and Hal.

Age is nonsense in comic books. Stop being so morbid, go get a girlfriend.

[CYOTI]

It's borderline pedophilia.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Hal and Arisia didn't become a couple until the writer who wanted to get them together, Steve Englehart, went to outrageous lengths to magically age Arisia's body into the equivalent of an adult Earth woman. And even then, he spent another few issues having Hal refuse Arisia's advances until he was convinced she was not a 15 year old girl, either mentally or physically.

If you think that makes Hal a pedophile, you clearly have no idea what a pedophile is.

[Joe Rice]

It doesn't make Hal a pedophile, but it's still gross.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It doesn't make Hal a pedophile, but it's still gross.

Yup.

Englehart was clearly trying to shoehorn Arisia into the role of Hal's love interest because he'd turned Carol Ferris into a full-time villainess. I much preferred Arisia as a rookie Lantern with an unrequited schoolgirl crush on Hal. It was an interesting dynamic that Englehart's story completely ruined.

[Jack Zodiac]

Exactly. She brought more to the book as a character when she was a wide-eyed rookie Lantern idolizing Hal. Since she's become a love interest, there's nothing worthwhile about her character. She's just a hot alien chick. Just like Jillian's just a hot cowgirl. Nothin' special goin' on there, either.

[Sanagi]

It was definitely weird, but hey, who knows what the rules are when it comes to alien booty.

It occurs to me that if Hal had done it with one of the weird GLs, like Driq, or Kilowog, we wouldn't still be talking about it today.

Unless it happened on-panel.

[Kid Kyoto]

Well there's really 2 or 3 questions here.

Do you like the recon that's she's actually 200 years old or whatever?
Do you think it was OK for 30 something Hal to date a teenage GL?

For me, I don't like the recon, but I think the relationship was OK. I think it raises interesting issues like: does her courage and competence compensate for her chronological age, or is chronological age even an issue with aliens?

And I think it would be funny if the JLA is always ranking on hal for robbing the cradle.

[lawman]

I've been reading comics long enough to remember when Arisia was first introduced, and I've always liked her, right from the start. I didn't have a problem with the way Englehart wrote her as a love interest the first time around, so I don't think Johns' minor retcon was necessary, but neither do I find it problematic. And while she may have started with a "crush" (Hal was to the GLC what Michael Jordan was to the NBA, after all), as things evolved she clearly cared about Hal a lot more sincerely than many of the other women various writers have hooked him up with, so in my book that buys her some extra credibility. It's a shame she was gone for so long, and I'm happy to see her back.

As to the age thing, I agree with the poster who said it's a matter of maturity. Perhaps Arisia's original demeanor and appearance came across as "adolescent" -- and that's part of what made her refreshing, too, her youth lack of cynicism (before later writers got their hands on her) -- but as far as I'm concerned anyone who's mature enough to be a member of the Green Lantern Corps is an adult in every relevant sense of the word.

That said, the fact is that while I've generally enjoyed Johns' plotting on GL since the revival, he has (IMHO) so fundamentally mishandled Hal Jordan's character that I've started to wonder why I ever wanted Hal back (Hal was always fearless, yes, but also thoughtful and introspective -- not an impulsive jock type as Johns writes him), so I certainly hope he doesn't do such an injustice to Arisia as well. We'll see, I guess.

[Raker616]

A thoughtfull and instrospective Hal, that's not one I want to read about that sounds like the spike haired lantern.

[lawman]

A thoughtfull and instrospective Hal, that's not one I want to read about that sounds like the spike haired lantern.
But that's what Hal always was, from the start. Even in the plot-driven Silver Age days, he was always a hero who would think his way out of a problem, not just charge in with ring blazing (much less do anything so stupid as, e.g., fly a jet without his ring just to gratify his ego). It was his willingness to question his own assumptions, and the authority of the Guardians, that made O'Neil's GL/GA era so compelling. That same self-assessment was used to brilliant effect by Englehart in the years before the first Crisis, tying his whole history together in clever ways and leading up to him genuinely quitting the GL role for quite some time (without destroying his character in the process). Much of Jones' run in the '90s was about Hal trying to figure out where his values lay, what his role meant, now that he'd been at it long enough to become jaded.

This was always a big part of what made Hal interesting to me. Being courageous and resolute in the face of danger is not inconsistent with having a complex, thoughtful, multi-layered personality, with internal contradictions for the character to explore.

Johns, unfortunately, seems to have jettisoned most of that. He portrays a Hal who acts first and thinks later, who's overtly macho, who verges on outright arrogance even toward his friends. Frankly, he's a bit of a jerk. It's not the Hal I knew, and it's disappointing.

(I can't say that it's surprising, though, since Johns (for reasons of his own) never really seems comfortable writing intellectual characters... just look at how he played up the blue-collar, working-stiff aspect of Wally West, for example. IMHO Hal's revival might have been better handled by a writer like, say, John Ostrander -- look what a great job he did with both character development and cosmic SF plots in Martian Manhunter; and the kind of complex politics he wrote in Suicide Squad could translate into a really interesting handling of the Corps and the Guardians. And that's just one name off the top of my head.)

Anyway, end digression. FWIW, I still like Arisia. :)

[Raker616]

No, Hal was always an act first think second character, that doesn't mean that he isn't smart because he always comes up with great game plans on his feet. But introspective Hal, I don't think so he was always pretty arrogant and macho he's a fighter pilot for christs sake, maybe the GL/GA Hal was that but that isn't who Hal was originally and i'm not exactly too fond of the GL/GA days myself. Then '90's Hal was about him wandering around from place to place and being the opposite of what he was in the '60's and that's generally considered the worst Hal run ever. This Hal is one that I recognize, he isn't full of self doubt, he's a hero through and through, and he is once again saving the universe and scoring hot chicks sounds like GL to me.

[Jack Zodiac]

No, Hal was always an act first think second character

I always figured you just had a bad understanding of the character, but it appears you have no understanding of the character. Explains why I couldn't bother trying to discuss him and what's wrong with how anybody's written him in the past twenty years with you.

[Kid Kyoto]

I always figured you just had a bad understanding of the character, but it appears you have no understanding of the character. Explains why I couldn't bother trying to discuss him and what's wrong with how anybody's written him in the past twenty years with you.

Um d00d, after 20 years and 3 (THREE!) continuity-redefining crisis later, can't we say the way he is written now IS his personality?

[Raker616]

I always figured you just had a bad understanding of the character, but it appears you have no understanding of the character. Explains why I couldn't bother trying to discuss him and what's wrong with how anybody's written him in the past twenty years with you.

If you don't know how badly Hal's been written since COIE, then you're right we have nothing to discuss. And please save me the time of correcting you on how Hal is was and has been written repeatedly it's gotten annoying over time.

[Jack Zodiac]

Um d00d, after 20 years and 3 (THREE!) continuity-redefining crisis later, can't we say the way he is written now IS his personality?

Sure, if you like crappy characterization. Me, I like 'em interesting, but sometimes interesting doesn't sell.

If you don't know how badly Hal's been written since COIE, then you're right we have nothing to discuss. And please save me the time of correcting you on how Hal is was and has been written repeatedly it's gotten annoying over time.

Since? I'm talking about before, son; but by all means, stop "correcting" me. It'll save me the trouble of having to read your nonsense.

[lawman]

No, Hal was always an act first think second character, that doesn't mean that he isn't smart because he always comes up with great game plans on his feet.
So does James T. Kirk (incidentally, not a bad parallel for how I see Hal in general) -- he's always clever under pressure, he's a natural leader, and he's not afraid of a fight... but while he's not Spock, he's also not impulsive or arrogant. "Act first, think later" is more of a description of Guy Gardner, which is one reason I never liked him.

But introspective Hal, I don't think so he was always pretty arrogant and macho he's a fighter pilot for christs sake...
No, he was a test pilot. Putting him in the Air Force, which had never previously been anything more than a brief part of his pre-GL past, was IMHO another mistake on Johns' part.

[Kid Kyoto]

"Hal Jordan & Arisia / Question "

Y'know upon rereading the topic, I think a Hal/Arisia/Question menage a trois would be awesome!

[Tom]

he was always pretty arrogant and macho Especially when he was a toy salesman and drove around the country with his hippie friend trying to find the "true America."

Oy vey, Geoff Johns has a lot to answer for.

[Jack Zodiac]

"Hal Jordan & Arisia / Question "

Y'know upon rereading the topic, I think a Hal/Arisia/Question menage a trois would be awesome!

Vic or Renee?

[Kid Kyoto]

Vic or Renee?

Both have possibilities.

[stelok]

In addition she is after all a GL. She's able to risk her life against endless hordes of homicidal aliens not to mention wield the most powerful and perhaph most dangerous weapon in the universe... but is unable to make choices about who she chooses to date seems kinda ridiculous.

It couldn't be a more valid argument. If one is old enough to be a soldier and fight a war, then one is old enough to date and have sex. Minors are not allowed to face grave danger on their own with such slim chances of survival. Mature persons, whether they be teenagers or adults don't carry adult responsibilities without considering dire consequences.

I still fail to understand the logic that a 18-year old is old enough to enlist himself in the army and fight a war but not old enough to drink beer.

Besides Kes, an Ocampan from Star Trek: Voyager is only two years old (the age of an Ocampan adult but is also the age of an infant to a human)