Hellboy Animated films revisited

[Neil Hill]

First off, I want to begin by stating emphatically that I mean absolutely no disrespect to Mike Mignola, Guillermo Del Toro, Tad Stones, or any of those individuals associated with the Hellboy Animated films. I have no axe to grind here that might be directed at anyone associated with these movies, and have no agenda other than one fan stating an opinion. I have mountains of respect for the amount of effort that was put into these films and sincerely wanted to enjoy them, but ultimately I did not.

The main purpose of this topic is to put forth what isn’t working with the Hellboy animated films, and what isn’t working will be discussed at length so be ready for that. I could also mention what is working, but I feel it is a better use of everyone’s time if I just get right to my point, and save the sycophantic missives for another time.

Take the animation style back to formula- The current style of animation used for the films seems somewhat at odds with it original intent. It appears that a deliberate attempt was made to choose a style different enough from Mike’s so as not to offend his sensibilities, but also have a commercial viability that could (possibly) tap into the more ‘anime’ inspired Teen Titans Go viewer market. I will state that I take no issue with the style chosen, but how it was applied to the movies just didn’t work. The types of stories chosen for these films are too dark and macabre for this more ‘Hellboy-lite’ animation style approach to make sense. For instance, you have monsters with blood literally dripping from fangs and fingers, and floating skulls and other more ‘horror’ oriented elements wandering around with characters who look (in some cases) poorly drawn and or too cartoony to make sense in context with the more gothic/spooky intent. There is a general sense of confusion on the part of the viewer as to what exactly the animation is attempting to be- quick and dirty Saturday animation, or something more appropriate to the tone set by Mike’s comics. I would assume a bit of both, but again, this doesn’t come across appropriately.

I feel that taking the whole animation style and approach back to formula (so to speak)- perhaps choosing a style more appropriate to the tone- would be valuable in defining a true intent. Do we want to make a movie that appeals to the hardcore Hellboy fan only, yet alienates that same audience with sub-standard animation, or appeal to the gigantic chunk of audience between the ages of 8-13 who might also find this property interesting? The current approach seems to want its cake and eat it to. Defining a clear direction from the start (broad based appeal or myopic) is important- taking into account Mike’s tastes of course, but not limiting your options to those choices alone.

(end part I)

[Neil Hill]

Story Editing and Story Choice- I don’t purport to know anything of the story decisions that went on behind closed doors during the creation of Sword of Storms or Blood and Iron, but I would imagine they went something like this: “Let’s take story bits from the comics and sandwich them into an ongoing narrative because we know that will appeal to the hardcore fans, and won’t they like that?” The problem with this approach is that you (in this case anyway) eventually end up with narratives that are too bloated and unwieldy to work in what should be a tight storyline that moves along with nary a bump.

IMHO what works best in the Hellboy comics are stories that start strong, move along at a good clip, give a bit of exposition somewhere early or near the middle, and then finish things up with a bang. In the animated films however, between starting strong and finishing things up with a bang, there is quite a bit of superfluous and sometimes indulgent detail that just doesn’t need to be there. For instance, Sword of Storms was more a series of vignettes that wandered to the ends of the earth (literally in some cases) in an attempt to pack in as much story as possible (even going so far as to ‘borrow’ an entire sequence right from the comics). The sense of flow was constantly being disrupted by small asides- some from the comics and some invented for the films- that took the characters in myriad directions, but ultimately came across as pointless..

I understand that stories for SOS and BAI were expanded to work more appropriately for a movies time length. I also understand that those creating the Hellboy animated films are fans themselves, and would most likely love nothing more than to see certain sequences from the comics animated, however, this Frankenstein approach to crafting stories- take a piece from the comics here, create a piece whole cloth there, and then sew it altogether into a movie- tends to be the Achilles Heel of both films. If all of the elements just described could be ‘pounded’ and shaped more appropriately so that the rough edges were not so apparent, the story (which should be king) would not suffer as much as it currently does.

(end part II)

[Neil Hill]

Reconsider format approach- By this I mean, consider the fact that perhaps the darker tone (more akin to the comics) is not the strength of this property in animation. The comics themselves are rife with humor, both macabre and otherwise. Perhaps it might be better to play up the humor even more (i.e. Men in Black, etc.), while avoiding the toxic land of cutesy and commercial sell-out. Also, the macabre and gothic are concepts very much married to the stories in the comics via Mike’s artwork; however, in animation that approach confuses the motive- is it attempting to truly inspire fear or apprehension in the viewer, or just look like interesting window decoration? If I have to even ask this question than I’m pulled right out of the story and the point is lost.

Also, consider that these stories may work better in an episodic fashion via half hour increments. Tad mentioned at one point that he was desperately trying to avoid the low quality look and feel of Saturday animation, but I disagree that all half hour animated programs are negative. Look at something like JLU for instance. A strong property with an enormous sense of its own purpose, strengths, and weaknesses, that works wonderfully in half-hour episodes. If you want the stories in longer formats get the DVD’s and watch them back-to-back, I say!

Sometimes these ‘quick and dirty’ shorter length stories are the best way to keep the audience interested and the story moving. The truncated time frame should (in theory) force a more cohesive narrative, because by its very nature it needs to get its point across quickly. However, this format can be used to its best affect by those who truly understand good story crafting, and I feel the Hellboy animated crew is very much up to the task. Moreover, some of Mike’s best stories are his short ones, so consider this when putting together possible future efforts for the animated films.

Will any of what I’ve posited here make a bit of difference to future Hellboy animated efforts? Most likely not one darn bit. That being said, sometimes things have to be said for no other reason than they should be said without fear of reprisal. However, I will reiterate that all of what I've said is meant with respect to the amount of effort it takes to get even one of these movies created and off to market. That fact is definitely not lost on me. I understand also that it's very easy to cast rocks at something that is already out there in the world rather than create something new.

Thanks for reading.

[Jake Capps]

Thank you for putting in the time to write this Neil. You are indeed brave & bold.

[Neil Hill]

Thanks Bandit. Honestly, my intent was to be neither, but instead to generate discussion about what works or doesn't work with these films. Perhaps too much of that was done when the movies were new, maybe there isn't much more to be said, or maybe my approach was incorrect. I just hope what I said doesn't come across like I have all the answers, because I know that I don't. I just care passionately (for some reason) about making sure Hellboy animated doesn't wind up blowing away in the wind.

There's such potential for Hellboy in this medium that it makes me sad some studio may give up on producing more simply because the first two weren't received the way they'd hoped (if that was in fact the case). Oh well, another case of shut up and sit down I suppose.

[Asa]

Oh well, another case of shut up and sit down I suppose.
Neil. In an old post you mentioned that you didn't know much about "that part of the world". There is a very big world out side of the U.S., Keeping up with everything can be challenging. I don't think things are as simple as making changes, You are very entitled to your veiw point, and voicing them can also trigger some responses. I really want them to continue making more :D animated movies. Who knows What the future brings.

[Neil Hill]

Neil. In an old post you mentioned that you didn't know much about "that part of the world". There is a very big world out side of the U.S., Keeping up with everything can be challenging.

I agree with most of what you said, but the comment above confused me a bit. Can you expand on what you meant here?

[Jake Capps]

IMHO: While watching the special features you learn that they felt they had to "rush through" shots, and some they just flat out make fun of. I have never understood the need to put something out that you didn't feel was the best product you could produce. I would like to have seen the animation done by an American company. Tell me Hellboy couldn't be done in flash-animation by a company like Power House. It seems to me that if your supply company is closer to you...you would be in a better position to quality control it.

[Asa]

Can you expand on what you meant here?
Yes I can. I got taken back by all of your comments and felt that you did bring up ligitamate points, and that you were a bit harsh in your discription on the movies.
I get the impression that they opened this up to overseas animaters to increase volume as well as to meet the cost.
Mythology, and folklore was brought here by foreigners.Their purseption on light and darkness were different, and as is the arts. However it is a big world. I would have to listen to the interveiw with Tad a little more in order to get some idea on which direction they went ( I could guess but I don't want to offend anyone).
The movies have a very eclectic sort of style that I feel works for others, as well as many in the USA., but not everyone.
When I quoted you on "That part of the world" I was reffering to Europeans, Russians, Germans, Italians, Swedish, English,and others. Pehaps maybe involving one other person, choice of foreighn country with more knowledge of "The art of animation" may have helped,and or an american company too. But I don't think it would have increased DVD sales. It may have appealed to more people of interest. If that is really the reason why they don't want to go forward, then they can make some changes, and we get more.

[Jake Capps]

American creator + Canadian director + Korean animators = Animated Hellboy. Do I have that right? I was only suggesting that since the creative team was working in North America maybe it would work better having the animation team closer. These movies are not The Simpsons...obviously. This animation team does not have 20 years to get the style down right. Maybe it would work better with a guiding hand. Also I like Tad. The man is responsible for some freaking awesome after school animation that provided me with hours of free entertainment. And I know nothing about animation or making a movie...obviously.

[Asa]

American creator + Canadian director + Korean animators = Animated Hellboy. Do I have that right? This animation team does not have 20 years to get the style down right. Maybe it would work better with a guiding hand. Also I like Tad.
All I know is that, Tad had a dream, and I'm smiling. They had a good team together, and now they have dispanded. Could Tad be in charge again? I think so. If they were just trying to appeal to a broader market, then more research could be done in reasonable time, and we may get more of the movies. I could also be talking total jibberish:)

[Neil Hill]

Interesting that it's just the three of us here in this Thread, but I'm fine with that. :)

You both make fine points, but I would argue that nearly all animation studios use overseas animators (remember, I said nearly all, and I'm sure Tad could correct me on that if I'm way off) these days, and that regardless of tone and intent for the program itself (be it movie or tv show) the animators should be animating what the storyboards illustrate, rather than try to make some interpretation based on cultural understanding (or lack thereof). In other words, just because an animator is Korean doesn't mean they don't have an awareness of (for instance) English folklore and the mood that such a setting should inspire via the quality of animation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, sub par or inappropriately 'cartoony' animation for darker subject matter ends up looking out of place at times.

Now if the Hellboy animated movies had attempted to keep things light and fluffy (seems wrong to mention that particular phrase with Hellboy involved) the style of animation would have made more sense. Also, again, I want to reiterate that the animation style chosen in its purest form had mountains of potential, but I think things may have been sidetracked in the translation from storyboard to screen?

[Kelly Tindall]

I don't really want to get into the discussion (I thought that they did a pretty good job, especially on the second) but I wanted to ask you, Neil... Have you listened to the commentaries?

I can't imagine anyone being harder on the movies than Mike and Tad were on the commentaries. I think, like most artists, they are both intimately aware of the shortcomings of the product they have created. Most artists are.

Anyway, my two cents. I really wanted that Lobster Johnson movie.

[Neil Hill]

I don't really want to get into the discussion (I thought that they did a pretty good job, especially on the second) but I wanted to ask you, Neil... Have you listened to the commentaries?

I can't imagine anyone being harder on the movies than Mike and Tad were on the commentaries. I think, like most artists, they are both intimately aware of the shortcomings of the product they have created. Most artists are.

Anyway, my two cents. I really wanted that Lobster Johnson movie.

Yes, I've listened to both, Kelly, but that's a valid question. In listening to the commentaries I didn't sense an overall lack of faith in the product (which is kind of what I'm sensing you're alluding to), more just dissatisfaction with the way certain sequence bits turned out.

Granted, I'm not saying anyone should have a general lack of faith in the product or that the whole thing should be turned out with the garbage (as there are some genuinely interesting bits here and there), but the effort as a whole could use revision if and when there are future movies produced.

[Jankenstein]

*prays for an animated Lobster Johnson movie*

Neil, did you prefer the ASOH animation?