The Most Powerful Mutants

[handOFfate]

I wonder what the most powerful mutants in the world are. It kind of clarifies things for me, such as "does it really take the whole X-Men team to beat this guy, or is it just bad writing?"This is what i've gotten so far...

Apocalypse- dont' even know what his powers really are, but he seems to be powerful

Mr. Sinister- same powers as apocalypse, only a bit weaker. Still, he did beat the stuffing out of the entire X-Men team in Inferno.

Prof. X- Most powerful telepath on Earth. Enough said.

Magneto- Mutant master of magnetism. Need I say more?

Polaris- Same powers as Magneto.

Rachel Grey- From what i've read in Uncanny, she's pretty powerful. Plus, she has the powers of the phoenix.

Storm- Can control nature. That's pretty impressive.

Cable- Well, his powers seem to be pretty awesome when he doesn't have to use them to control his virus.

Anybody else I missed?

[Huzzah!]

Polaris is very powerful but no where near Mags who generally i would say is the most powerful mutant.

Not only on pure power but because of his ingeniuty with his powers and continuing reevaluation of his powers and their possible applications.

[Blue Blaze]

Franklin Richards
Captain Britian's Brother... the name is ... not there...
Scarlet Witch

The Earth's Mightiest Mutant... Namor the Submariner. :D

[Anon_me]

Jamie Braddock, I believe is is name.

Is the Shadow King a mutant?

[Mister Jerusalem]

Magneto is defintely up there...other very powerful mutants:

Charles Xavier
Legion (especially right before age of apocalypse...he's in limbo or dead til someone brings him back)
Exodus
Nate Grey
Cable w/o TO virus
Phoenix (Jean or Rachel)
Franklin Richards
Mikail Rasputin

You pretty much need to be a telepath or energy manipulator on a city or planetary scale to qualify.

[Anon_me]

Magma has the potential to affect a planet, would she count? And in addition to being a mutant, Scarlet Witch is also this reality's nexus being, does that count for anything here? :p

[mattbib]

IIRC Sinister is NOT a mutant.

And actually Polaris IS very close to Magneto on the power scale, and very well may be more powerful than him.

[TheGoldenAvenger]

Sage seems pretty powerful.

[Vector]

Jamie Braddock, I believe is is name.

Is the Shadow King a mutant?


Jamie is indeed powerful.

I believe the SK is a mutant.


Sage seems pretty powerful.

Not in the general destructive sense of the word. She doesn't have the raw firepower others have.


Iceman could be very powerful. Mikhail Rasputin was quite powerful as well.

[Stagier]

apparently carter can do whatever he wants as well. and prof x can blow up people's minds with cerebro according to singer.
isn't there a list of omega class mutants? meaning most powerful? and for some reason the only one i can recall now is elixer. who WILL be omega class.

[Smarty Jones]

Franklin Richards lost his powers some time ago, during The Fantastic Four's clash with Abraxas (where the young Franklin helped bring back Galactus).

Mister Sinister is not a mutant. His abilities were created by Apocalypse.

As for Rachel Grey, the Phoenix Force is a a cosmic source that she accesses, just like her alternate universe mother did. Grey's real mutant power is time travel, which in itself is impressive.

The Shadow King is a mutant. Exodus is a mutate, courtesy of Apocalypse -- so he may not qualify since his powers were amplified.

Legion is dead, as seen in the "Age of Apocalypse" storyline. Apocalypse also died at the end of "The Search for Cyclops." Mikhail Rasputin and Nate Grey are dead as well.

[atoningunifex]

Chuck definitely. Most powerful psi on the black.

Magneto.

Storm.

Jean as Phoenix. Jean on her own is up there, but she needs the Phoenix shtuff to put her over the top.

Jamie Braddock is amazingly powerful and totally insane. So yeah, stick him on the list.

Those would be the characters I would assess at Omega Level. They're the ones who regularly use their powers on a global scale and who learn and adapt constantly.

I think there are lots of mutants with Omega Potential- characters like Havok and Polaris and Iceman and Rogue.

But that's power of the kickass mess up the physicality sort. Those are the people who can do the most property damage as it were.

In msot societies information is real power. Emma Frost and Sage are extrordinarily powerful, but they're pwoerful in a different way. They utilize information flow to obtain their ends. And Sage is remarkably adaptible.

[DDM]

The Shadow King's telepathy is far more powerful than Xavier's powers. He also can consumes his victims brains for sustenance when he manifests on the coporeal reality; he can easily subvert his victims to make them his own slaves for his own purposes. For instance, Carol Danvers' Ms Marvel, as a result of her hybrid human/Kree DNA, developed a natural resistance to telepathy; however, the Shadow King, in due time, even corrupted Ms. Marvel in Uncanny X-Men #269 (This Ms. Marvel was not the true Carol Danvers, but the stolen psyche Rogue stole from Danvers in Avengers Annual #10; Rogue & Ms. Marvel's hearts desire was to be separated from themselves. Unfortunately, both woman shared one lifeforce--only one could survive. The Shadow King wanted the corrupted "Ms. Marvel" to kill Rogue so Danvers could gain Rogue's powers & serve him. But Magneto saved Rogue instead.)

The Shadow King got the idea of "Hounds" when he fought Rachel Summers (Phoenix) & Kitty Pryde in World War II England (published in X-Men: True Friends #1-3); the Shadow King used his hounds in Uncanny X-Men #264-267.

The Shadow King also viewed Mystique as a threat for some reason. Could it be he knew that Mystique is Raven Darkholme who worked for the Department of Defense?

The Shadow King even attacked Marvel Girl on the astral plane (at the time she did not have her telepathic powers), but Psylocke saved Jean from being corrupted by the Shadow King's evil. Unfortunately, Jean could not remember who attacked her as a result of Psylocke's psychic knife to her astral form.

Claremont implied in X-Men: True Friends that the Shadow King has lived ever since mankind has lived; however, he did not go in further detail about the Shadow King's origins. If true, Amahl Farouk is just another alias--another host body--that the Shadow King possessed at the time in his first appearance in Uncanny X-Men #117.

[The Fury]

Rogue could be if she absorbed enough powers perminantly.

Oh and Jamie may be powerful but he is nothing compared to the Crooked God, Mad Jim Jaspers.

[Huzzah!]

I dont see Polaris as even being near Mags in power. Ive never seen her do anything really epic with her powers, just throw some crap around. Granted i never read any of X-factor, but she seems a pushover in X-men

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I dont see Polaris as even being near Mags in power. Ive never seen her do anything really epic with her powers, just throw some crap around. Granted i never read any of X-factor, but she seems a pushover in X-men

I think my man was joking when he said that Polaris is on the Magneto level. Exodus IS close to the Magneto-level. Polaris has never done anything close to what Exodus has done. And she doesn't have the range, control, or multitasking of either of those two to really be close to that league.

[Ryan K]

Jubilee...someday. :cool:

[Archyduke]

Someone mentioned Sebastian Shaw a few posts back, which has me slightly confused.
In terms of his actual power, it always seemed to me like a slightly more limited form of Bishop's. Useful, sure, but nowhere near as powerful as something like Magneto or Jamie Braddock's abilities. Is there an aspect to Shaw's powers that I'm overlooking, or was the poster referring to his resources as Black King of the HFC? Or perhaps even his sudden and inexplicable telepathy... :confused: ?
Anyway, Dani Moonstar always seemed like she could wreak some real havoc if she so wished, during the period when she could call up material objects. Karma also showed some pretty impressive skills during her evil period, but I don't know how much of that control and range was due to the Shadow King's influence.
I never read Gambit's solo title, but a friend of mine was telling me about some storyline where they revealed that he could potentially be incredibly powerful, but Mr. Sinister set mental blocks in his mind so that he didn't lose control. That's about all I know on that subject...

Oh and Jamie may be powerful but he is nothing compared to the Crooked God, Mad Jim Jaspers.
Yeah. If I had to pick one most powerful mutant, alive or dead, I'd probably pick Jim Jaspers. Anyway who can weaken the Fury to near death in a one-on-one fight is... pretty intimidating....

[Anon_me]

What's her name...Siena Blaze? She could wreck havoc with the electromagnetic field of the entire planet, I'd say that makes her pretty powerful :p

And what about Gamemaster? He's an omnipath...isn't he more powerful than Xavier or any other telepath on the planet?

[Boomstick King]

I'd say a powerful mutant is colossus. The only thing that could hurt him is a mental attack. He doesn't need to eat or breath in his metal form. He shouldn't be able to be hurt by anything physical. He's not the most powerful, but I think he doesn't get enough respect.

[The Fury]

He shouldn't be able to be hurt by anything physical.
Wolverine's Adamantium claws can cut him in his metal form.

Again, Mad Jim Jaspers is the most powerful mutant. Well, I believe him to be anyway.

[Taltos]

Is juaggernuat a mutant

I know originally he wasnt, but on the Xmen evoulution he was and he is on the X-men now, so are they trying to pass him off as a mutant enhanced by magic?

Bobby seems extremly powerful
Storm is awesome
all the greys and summers seem pretty strong (havok leveled all eight of the immortals

oh yeah and Xorn
Namor, those wings make him a mutie right?
xavier
Sunspot
Banshee and duaghter(they could liquify a city)
Collosus is up there in the thor class now isnt he

[Taltos]

Wolverine's Adamantium claws can cut him in his metal form.

i doubht it wolverine dosent have the strength, he couldnt puncture the hulks skin

[The Fury]

i doubht it wolverine dosent have the strength, he couldnt puncture the hulks skin
I don't rate Colossus that high, Hulk would flatten Colossus with ease.

Wolverine has been able to cut though solid steel with little difficulty therefore Colossus' skin is little challenge.

A Juggernaut is not a mutant.

[Brian Cronin]

Didn't Magneto use Polaris' powers during the Twelve storyline?

So that would make her pretty powerful, right?

-Brian

[Will.S]

Didn't Magneto use Polaris' powers during the Twelve storyline?

So that would make her pretty powerful, right?

-BrianYeah, if he's using Lorna's powers the same way he used Fabian Cortez's, she's got to count for some considerable power.

In the latest X-Men, Chuck Austen is doing some weird-yet-neat stuff with her powers that Magneto does similarly as well in Excalibur.

I'm usually not too fond of the Psi people unless they used their powers in more utilitarian ways sort of like in the videogame Psi-Ops which has one of the best representations of that ability IMO.

As for the list of current LIVING powerful mutant characters I'll list.

Most powerful in projectile strength and force ability:

Iceman - This guy is impressing me more and more. I didn't think he could even grow to the height he did in the current X-Men arc with Xorn. It was mainly due to the help of the lake nearby but it was a feat in itself.

Polaris - Obviously not as powerful as Magneto but one day she may reach her full potential. Hell, she's doing some amazing things now.

Rachel - Her tapping into the Phoenix force makes her formidable against many threats as well as having the same powers as her mother. Recently fought The Fury and one day I think should could just wipe that entity from the face of the universe. Ain't no adapting to being obliterated out of existence.

Anyway not a fan of her myself because of her alternate dimension roots but I respect her power.

Cable - This guy can do some real damage just seeing the stuff he did to Deadpool and in his own title.

Magneto - Obvious.

Storm - Her powers seem really well realized when she actually loses control of them. But she's also learning more applications that writers are making cool uses of.

Havok - He stores up a ton of energy so his blasting power and frequency seem more than even Cyclops's.

Raw strength:

Colossus
Blob
Juggernaut

Fighting ability:

Wolverine
Gambit
Mystique
Callisto(recently)
Kitty Pryde
Cable
Storm


The rest:

Magma - Could be a very powerful mutant if she had more range in ability to affect earth's plates. If she goes up to miles of control other than city blocks, forget about it. Claremont used her pretty well over in X-Treme. I hope to see more of her despite her somewhat convoluted backround.

Emma Frost - She has a nice combo of both telepathy and diamond skin. A bit too convenient if you ask me but telepathy is close to Jean/Xavier's.

Franklin Richards- Almost TOO powerful. I always find it weird that he's an actual mutant with that type of raw power. If anything I'd depower him unless Marvel plans to do some epic story with him becoming the next cosmic entity or something. Reality warping and creating pocket universes should make every superhero take notice and make sure that Reed is keeping him in check.

Professor X is definitely among the most powerful as well, just look at Secret Wars (I) among the other things he can do in the Ultimate and 616 titles.

Apocalypse is kind of crazy with the powers that he has, he seems to be able to do ANYTHING but I haven't seen him recently.

[DDM]

Selene is a very powerful mutant; as a result of her primary mutant power--the ability to psionically drain the lifeforce of her victims she has the following powers:

* limited, undefined telepathy
* Selene can infuse inanimate objects with stole lifeforce to either animate them to her will or turn them to dust. She can also control fire (not true telekinesis as other people have posted on their unofficial websites).
* Selene can lift (press) 1500 pounds
* Selene in immune to conventional weapons such as knives & guns.
* Selene can instantly hypnotize her victims
* Selene can, at short periods of time, run as fast as Quicksilver (Selene combines the hypnosis & her superhuman speed to make it appears she can teleport).
* Selene possesses vast knowledge of both black & white magic; she can summon demons & perform other magickal feats.
* Selene is immortal as long as she absorbs more lifeforce.
* Selene has psychic control over High Priests, able to transform them into man-beasts, similar to lycanthropy (she did so with Friedrich Von Roehm in Uncanny X-Men #208).

[Siddon]

Lacuna may be the most powerful Mutant on the planet, as anyone who can stop time will be

Doop has Galactus/thor level of power

Mr. M in District X has potential to be the greatest ever, he is a walking God

Nate Grey is not dead but his essence is spread out and could come back together again

Iceman and Thunderbird III also have potential to be the most powerful (they can destroy/deconstruct aything however both fail to fully realize this).

[Will.S]

I just have some questions on these...

Lacuna may be the most powerful Mutant on the planet, as anyone who can stop time will beWhere's this character from again?

Doop has Galactus/thor level of powerI haven't seen him do anything of that level of power but then again I only read X-Force/X-Statix at the beginning. I did see some issues where X-Statix fight the Avengers for control of Doop but what kind of powers has he shown to make him so important nowadays?

Mr. M in District X has potential to be the greatest ever, he is a walking GodHe definitely is a new powerful mutant addition.

[Ryan K]

Where's this character from again?

X-Statix

I haven't seen him do anything of that level of power but then again I only read X-Force/X-Statix at the beginning. I did see some issues where X-Statix fight the Avengers for control of Doop but what kind of powers has he shown to make him so important nowadays?

He was listed as being this powerful in one of the recent Marvel Encyclopedias. It seems a mute point now.

Spoilers for X-Statix #26

He's dead.

[Anon_me]

Selene is immortal as long as she absorbs more lifeforce.


Does she still need to do this? I know she did when she first appeared but isn't she an external now?

[Siddon]

^^^^^


One of the great points of X-staix 26 is that none of those things were confirmed or denined

[DDM]

Does she still need to do this? I know she did when she first appeared but isn't she an external now?

Don't believe the external garbage. Selene's primary mutant power is the ability to drain the lifeforce from her victims; any great expendature of power rapidly ages her body. Therefore, yes, she still has to psionically drain the lifeforce from her victims to be virtually immortal.

[GoGo Yubari]

I'd say a powerful mutant is colossus. The only thing that could hurt him is a mental attack. He doesn't need to eat or breath in his metal form. He shouldn't be able to be hurt by anything physical. He's not the most powerful, but I think he doesn't get enough respect.

Eh. Juggernaut actually beat him in a one on one fight. Collossus impressed the hell out of Jugs, but still lost.

[Will.S]

Eh. Juggernaut actually beat him in a one on one fight. Collossus impressed the hell out of Jugs, but still lost.Yeah but at this point Juggernaut is probably about equal to Colossus since his depowerment.

BTW the Unofficial Handbook to the MU is still down :/

[LordAllMighty]

This is all in my humble opinion and mutants with an * by their names have the potential to go up the power list.

Mentalist-Ability to project mental energy for various affects.

Franklin Richards
Mutant Alpha (should he be consider a mutant or a mutate)
X-Man/Cable
Proteus
Cassandra Nova (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Legion
Professor X*
Exodus*
Shadow King
Phoenix* (Jean Grey)
Marvel Girl* (Rachel Summers Grey)
Spellbinder*
White Queen
Gamemaster*
Blaquesmith
Black Queen
Psylocke
Sage*
Sundragon (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Mastermind
Memsmero
Chamber*
Karma* (does possess other telepathic abilities)
Justice
Lady Mastermind
Mastermind
Stepford Cuckoos*
Moonstar*
Artie*
Scanner
Typhoid Mary (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Caliban

Elementals-Mutants that have specific control over elemental forces or certain part of their environment.

Magneto
Joseph*
Mikhail Rasputin
Storm*
Iceman*
Polaris *
Scarlet Witch*
Meggan*
Magma
Pyro
Rusty Collins
Box
Wiz Kid

Energy Projectors-Ability to project energy

Xorn
Nemesis
Living Monolith*
Bishop *
Dazzler*
Havok*
Banshee
Firestar*
Sunfire
Thunderbird
Cyclops
Siryn
Avalanche
Sunspot
Rictor
Darkstar
Dagger
Aurora
Pete Wisdom
Magik
Jubilee*
Meltdown
Black Tom
Skids
Bedlam
Harpoon
Unus
Gambit
Cannonball
Cecelia Reyes
Silver Samurai
Leech
Gateway
Slipstream
Amelia Voght
Lila Cheney
Laura Dean
Shatterstar
Vertigo

Strength- Ability to lift weights

Apocalypse (Class 100)
Namor (Class 100)
Colossus (Class 100)
Warpath (90+)
Blockbuster (75 +)
Black King (50+)
Rogue (50+)
Strong Guy (50+)
Blob (50+)
Sabra (50)
Arclight (50)
Sunspot (25+)
M (25 +)
Cargill (25 +)
Beast (10)
Nekra (10)

Baseline- Mutants that possesses enhanced physical or mental abilities that are greater then normal humans

Speedster:
Northstar
Aurora
Quicksilver *
Super Saber

Fighters:
Beast
Sabretooth
Lobo*
Wolverine
Omega Red
Nightcrawler*
Toad
Whirlwind
Wolfsbane
Feral
Thorn
Wild Child
Goblyn
Domino*
Marrow
Archangel*
Callisto
Crimson Commando

Others:
Lifeguard
Diamond Lil
Shadowcat
Changeling
Mystique*
Multiple Man
Maverick
Stacy X
Infectia
Forge
Maggot

[Huzzah!]

If i were to list telepaths in a power scale i would have to do a couple of categories such as all around/defense and offense.

Offensively speaking , for example, i think Psylocke is second probably to Xavier, where as she has little real defense (notice if anyone is taking over Xmen's minds Psylocke will most likely be taken).

[Jack Flash]

I'd place Mikhail Rasputin up in the top echelon of Mutants. and I don't believe when we last saw him that he was dead, like someone said earlier in the thread.

I believe that it was stated that Piotr Rasputin will be at Thor level strength after he fully matures. but he's not there yet. He could take down Jugs now easily though.


Illyana Rasputin with her magic and telportation would also be up there, but without her magic, she's considerably less of a threat.

[Anon_me]

If i were to list telepaths in a power scale i would have to do a couple of categories such as all around/defense and offense.

Offensively speaking , for example, i think Psylocke is second probably to Xavier, where as she has little real defense (notice if anyone is taking over Xmen's minds Psylocke will most likely be taken).

But Asian Psylocke before she remerged with her British mind was a low level telepath and probably not as powerful as the British version.

On LordAllMighty's list, Gamemaster is a little low, isn't he? At the very least, he's above White Queen and at least on par with Xavier. And I think Shadow King may be a little low too. I think Firestar might be higher up than Banshee since she never really lets loose inside a planetary atmosphere and I think she's suppose to be more powerful than Firelord. Oh, and I think you missed Slipstream, the chrono mutant from New Warriors? She could travel in some kind of accelerated time which gives her a kind of super speed, and she also got prophetic visions and has been seen to travel back in time. Oh yeah, and Empath, he mind controlled all of Nova Roma once in the "they're actually not Romans but victimed kidnapped by Selene" storyline.

I think if Magik was to refine her control, she'd be as much of a threat with or without her magic.

[Archyduke]

Could someone post a little bit more about this Mr. M fellow? My local comic book store doesn't seem to carry District X, so I'm not familiar with it.

Regarding the X-Statix; Lacuna could become very powerful I think, but as of right now she seems a little slow with her instincts. She should, potentially, have been able to dodge that bullet during the Princess D-, ur, Henrietta arc by stopping time and just moving. However, her power is still very powerful. Chances are slim that any writer will ever use her again, but if they did, hurm, I don't know. Could be interesting.

Doop showed some impressive presence during the Avengers storyline; I hope that in a decade or two some future-Busiek digs the little green fellow up for a staggering epic.

Other very powerful or very powerful seeming X-Statix characters included:

Artie Lunt, the Mysterious Fan Boy. I think he could have reached Jamie Braddock/Jim Jaspers levels of powers if he wasn't such an amateur with his powers. He wasn't around long but he managed some very impressive things...

Dead Girl: Besides having the ultimate "healing factor", she could do some other neat things; animating ghosts, negotiating with the dead, controlling her disconnected body parts, etc. The sheer variety of things she can do made her a force to be reckoned with, in my opinion.

Venus Dee Milo: She too, could do a variety of things. It seemed to me like she could find some other applications for her rather vague powers if she could move beyond needing a containment suit, and just float around as a cloud of energy. Besides, she struck me as one of the more, urm, better or accurate teleporters in the MU, origin incident aside.

[nubly]

would cannonball count? he did beat gladiator

IMO, the most powerful mutant is the girl which appeared in marvel comics presents #50

[Siddon]

first thing is first

Iceman has the ability to control water at a molecular level, that means he can destroy anything with water in it or use water as a weapon. He is more powerful the Magneto.

Forge is also an extremly powerful mutant but not in the same sense of other mutants. Forge can create machines that can do whatever he wants. He could create a weapon to kill anything. He should never be on the bottom of any list.

Mr. M has the ablity to control any type of molecules think of a man with Kitty's phasing powers, storms lighting, jean telekinetic. He is limitless in his powers, and can take apart a person and put them back together again. He cured one mutant of his powers and made him a regular boy. When he was young he turned a boy inside out and killed him. Since then he has tried to do good with his powers but he seems to fail.

[Brian Cronin]

would cannonball count? he did beat gladiator

IMO, the most powerful mutant is the girl which appeared in marvel comics presents #50

I don't believe he actually BEAT Gladiator, did he?

If I remember correctly, he spectacularly knocked Gladiator down to the ground.

At which point, Gladiator was flying back up to cream him....which was when the rest of the X-Men showed up.

-Brian

[Huzzah!]

nah the Xmen came and Slapped Cannonball on his back

He beat him. Gambit even said he liked when he gave gladiator the coup de' gracis

[Brian Cronin]

I just went back to the issue, the X-Men arrived after Sam had knocked Gladiator well.

But Gladiator bursts out of a bunch of rubble, and he seems ready to keep going, until he sees the rest of the X-Men.

Is that a definitive victory?

In a few seconds, Gladiator was up and about, showing no ill effects of the punch.

-Brian

[Huzzah!]

yeah but his confidence was shaken. After that Cannonball would have rocked his ass. His victory is more so in making Gladiator beat himself

[Brian Cronin]

I dunno...I mean, I think it's a major victory for Cannonball just to survive that punch from Gladiator and then send Gladiator sailing with the return punch.

But in a long term fight, I don't see Sam taking it...and I don't think Lobdell would necessarily disagree with that, either...

-Brian

[venuscameback]

Rogue could be if she absorbed enough powers perminantly.

Oh and Jamie may be powerful but he is nothing compared to the Crooked God, Mad Jim Jaspers. I was just thinking of the Warpies ...

do they count as mutants?

If so, Meggan should be on the list

ooooh and thinking of reality manipulators, how's about Proteus?

and yeah Iceman has the potential to be on that list, his powers are more than just "destructive" in the way that he could freeze brains, lock people in place by freezing their blood, put folk into suspended animation by lowering their temperature so far, etc etc - but he just hasn't taken his powers to the max yet

As for Polaris ... I'm pretty sure she's meant to be nearly up there with Magneto, or of the potential to be, but partly because she's a hero we haven't seen her make use of the versatility of her powers the way a calculating, careless villian like Mags can.

thinking of her illustrated powers, I seem to recall her doing some awesome stuff in one of the Magento limited series, I think Dark Seduction - didn't she collapse an entire coastal bay? or was it 'just' the cliffs she pulled down? Not sure, and I didn't dig the books enough to go get; but either way it was an impressive feat

but until we see her use her powers to greater and more versatile effect, she doesn't belong on this list. She's a maybe, with potential, but not yet a truly staggering level of mutant.

DLW

[venuscameback]

[QUOTE=Siddon]Lacuna may be the most powerful Mutant on the planet, as anyone who can stop time will be

Doop has Galactus/thor level of power
QUOTE]

Is Doop a mutant? Does anyone know his origins? I'd have loved for Peter Milligan to have written that story ...

Yeah, Lacuna is potentially pretty powerful. Like many mutants, she is limited primarily by her imagination.

but for all her time-stopping feats, what could she really do against the likes of Hulk or Juggernaut?

I guess Hulk, she could stuff his mouth with dirt while time has theoretically stopped, so when it re-starts, he's choking ... but Juggerrnaut not only has that massive armour but used to have an external forcefield to boot ... I'm struggling to see how she could apply her powers to defeat him (oh ... all she has to do is drag a lorrly load of cement into a chasm in front of him lol a la spiderman ... it won't hurt him, but will take him out the fight; so yeah, limited only by imagination ... so if Lacuna showed this kind of thinking and planning, she'd be on the list)

Thanks for remembering X-Statix, Siddon - I miss 'em already

DLW

[venuscameback]

Yeah but at this point Juggernaut is probably about equal to Colossus since his depowerment.


which reminds me. I've no objection art all to Juggy being de-powered, since he was must too power to be on the team as a hero.

but I never understood why this happened - as in how exactly it happened (despite having read that issue and scoured it for hints - thanks Chuck Austen!) - and what his new limits are.

Even if a new Marvel handbook tells us, I want to see it illustrated on the page. I think it's really bad when you can't comprehend the power levels and limits of characters from reading the actual books. Admittedly this doesn't have to be done in indecent haste, but Juggy's been de-powered/on the side of the angels for how long now?????? It would have really helped if one of the writers had gone out of their way to show a scene in which Juggy tries to do something, and reaches his limits, just to give us an idea of exactly how strong or invulnerable he is.

So, what are Juggy's powers and limits now? Does he still have that forcefield? If not, why not? Is he still unstoppable and physically invulnerable? Is he still immune to psychic attacks?

DLW

[The Fury]

Although I'm still going with Mad Jim Jaspers as number 1.

There is a mutant that no one has mentioned, people may not even know him but he is probably even more powerful/dangerous than any of the Previous one list.

I give you Winner of 1973 F.O.O.M. Create a Villian Contest (any a damn powerful mutant) Humus Sapien.
He appeared in Thunderbolts #55 only. His powers derived from Earth itself, the more he used his powers the more he took from Earth, killing people and causing earthquakes etc. Don't know excatly what his powers could do as I can't find a bio anywhere.


And in answer to Venus' questions, I have no idea. Austen hasn't told us, he used to be able to survive with no food, water or air and he didn't age, but now he's just wimpish.

[Archyduke]

Humus Sapien released a large reality warping emanation when he was first released from containment, causing distortion and structure damage in the nearby area of Burton Canyon, and killing people in various far-flung locales. He seemed to draw energy from the earth, but his powers were described as "geospatial reality-altering energy" in the narration. Norbert and later explained that he seemed to be powered by every living thing on the earth.

He was easily able to smear Charcoal out of existence, erase Beatle's armor, and defeat the Redeemers completely in a matter of pages.

Ogre elaborated on his powers in a helpful monologue: "His skin became ashen grey as he literally changed from human cellular matter-- to some kind of molecular amalgam of human flesh, plant matter and sediment! He grew more powerful, stronger, able to control vegetative life-- shift tectonic plates-- repulse all non-organic matter-- somehow, he was attuned to Earth's geospatial field! ... I subjected the boy to unholy experimentation-- by the age of eighteen his full powers had manifested themselves... Sonny was able to deconstruct the atomic structure of anything that wasn't 'sympathetic' to Earth-- man-made technology, metal, synthetics, plastics-- all removed from existence with a wave of his hand! ... I wondered how Sonny could generate such enormous energy-- and what I learned was terrifying. Because the 'blight' is not all that is man-made-- but man himself! Sonny draws his power from the life force of every person living on the planet earth! Every time he uses his powers, he randomly drains someone's life force!"

I'm not sure if I would quite place him on Jim Jaspers level power, since his power has the limit that he can only use his abilities so many times before he runs out of humans to drain. An unlikely occurance to be sure, but one that might need to be taken into account if the two of them ever inexplicably fight.

Edit: Although I guess he would end up killing Jaspers in the process. Oops.

Edit Edit: Unless they fought in space or in some other non-Earth locale, which Jaspers is capable of accomplishing!

[The Fury]

OK here is the list of mutant that I think are truely the most powerful, in no order:

Psyonic Based:
Mad Jim Jaspers
Jamie Braddock
Proteus
Franklin Richards - These 4 are reality warpers.
Professor X
X-Man
Cable
Exodus - Telepaths and TK.

Forces/Elemental based:
Magneto
Storm
Iceman
Meggan
Humus Sapien

Energy Based:

Xorn
Rogue - If absorbs other powers.

Other:

Apocalypse

Any others are nothing compare to these.

[The Fury]

Edit: Although I guess he would end up killing Jaspers in the process. Oops.

Edit Edit: Unless they fought in space or in some other non-Earth locale, which Jaspers is capable of accomplishing!
As long as the Jaspers thing has realtiy to warp he will survive. As indicated by his battle with The Fury. They Went to the sun, under deap water space, if Jaspers does that not many other mutants can stand against him.

[Smarty Jones]

I don't think most of you have noticed, but you are listing deceased and/or inactive characters on your lists. I thought the discussion of the most powerful mutants was based on the most powerful who are alive and actively using their powers. I see no point listing characters like Mikhail Rasputin, Jean Grey, Nate Grey, Proteus and Franklin Richards.

[Smarty Jones]

"Someone mentioned Sebastian Shaw a few posts back, which has me slightly confused.
In terms of his actual power, it always seemed to me like a slightly more limited form of Bishop's. Useful, sure, but nowhere near as powerful as something like Magneto or Jamie Braddock's abilities. Is there an aspect to Shaw's powers that I'm overlooking, or was the poster referring to his resources as Black King of the HFC? Or perhaps even his sudden and inexplicable telepathy... :confused: ?"

Sebastian Shaw can absorb kinetic energy to enhance his own physical strength, speed and stamina. Shaw must be in contact with the energy in order to absorb it. If Shaw strikes a blow to someone or something, or is himself struck, he will absorb the energy of that blow. Bishop, on the other hand, absorbs kinetic energy and redirects it into force blasts.

Shaw does have upper limits (one time, Storm shot him with enough electricity to paralyze him temporarily), but those limits really have not been explored -- partly because he does not engage in combat that often. However, he has shown that he could take down Colossus with one punch.

[Anon_me]

eh? what happened to Franklin Richards? why is he no longer viable?

[Will.S]

eh? what happened to Franklin Richards? why is he no longer viable?Yeah, I mean...he's still alive.

So, what are Juggy's powers and limits now? Does he still have that forcefield? If not, why not? Is he still unstoppable and physically invulnerable? Is he still immune to psychic attacks?Hmm, well best I could do is put the info that was in the recently released X-Men MU Handbook.

"Recently, the Juggernaut has been stripped of his mystical energy, including his personal force field. He still possesses superhuman strength, endurance and durability due to years of absorbing the mystical energies of Cyttorak, but the current upper limit of these traits is as yet unknown."

[Smarty Jones]

"eh? what happened to Franklin Richards? why is he no longer viable?"

Franklin Richards lost his powers fighting Abraxas in "Fantastic Four 49." If you're talking about the most powerful mutants in Marvel right now, Franklin does not count.

[Huzzah!]

I dunno...I mean, I think it's a major victory for Cannonball just to survive that punch from Gladiator and then send Gladiator sailing with the return punch.

But in a long term fight, I don't see Sam taking it...and I don't think Lobdell would necessarily disagree with that, either...

-Brian

Put his confiedence would be shaken from that. And he would have doubts when he threw the next one. Cannonball had him beat

[Siddon]

QUOTE]

Is Doop a mutant? Does anyone know his origins? I'd have loved for Peter Milligan to have written that story ...

Yeah, Lacuna is potentially pretty powerful. Like many mutants, she is limited primarily by her imagination.

but for all her time-stopping feats, what could she really do against the likes of Hulk or Juggernaut? [/QUOTE]

how could Lacuna take down Juggernaut

3 words

Nuclear Bomb Suppository

[Brian Cronin]

Put his confiedence would be shaken from that. And he would have doubts when he threw the next one. Cannonball had him beat

But he didn't seem shaken when he got up at all.

The whole gist of the story was that Gladiator did not think this puny human (pronounced puny you-mahn ;)) would be able to take his strongest punch...and when he did, Gladiator was shaken, at which point Sam punched him HARD.

Once he got up (which was right after the X-Men showed up), he would realize that Sam was a formidable foe, and would treat him accordingly.

-Brian

[Flight]

I've never read a story with Jamie Braddock in it, only the latest Uncanny arc and I saw his name being thrown about
What are his powers?? Is Brian a mutant?

My vote for most powerful is Magneto

[The Fury]

I've never read a story with Jamie Braddock in it, only the latest Uncanny arc and I saw his name being thrown about
What are his powers?? Is Brian a mutant?

He is, aparrently, his powers are listed here. (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/braddockj.htm)

Or basically be bends reality.

[Smarty Jones]

How could you all forget arguably the most dangerous mutant in the Marvel Universe? A complete nihlist who has nearly destroyed the universe several times?!?!

You may not think of him as a mutant, only because he was not born on Earth. However, he is by far the most powerful of his people (the Eternal Titans). A being of almost incalcuable superhuman power who has been fascinated by Death since he was a child.

Who is this mutant? THANOS. I dare anyone to put another character's might, standing in the Marvel Universe and body count against his - and it will be lacking vs. The Mad Titan. End of discussion.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Thanos without his technolgy can be fought by several mutants of high levels. Like Hyperstorm. Hyperstorm could eradicate Thanos if need be in a direct fight.

[DDM]

Thanos without his technolgy can be fought by several mutants of high levels. Like Hyperstorm. Hyperstorm could eradicate Thanos if need be in a direct fight.

Hyperstorm exists in an alternate reality. Thanos is very real in the mainstream Marvel Universe; it has taken all of the Avengers, Thing, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Moondragon, & Adam Warlock to defeat Thanos in the past. Thanos' mind is his most dangerous weapon besides his mutant physiology.

[JCMAHAL]

my list.. dead or alive no particular order

Jean Grey w/ Phoenix
Nate Grey
Cable with out TO Virus
Magneto
Exodus
Legion
Franklin Richards
Xavier
Apocalypse
Xorn - in the pure destructive sense
Havok - can stop a living Black hole
Mikhail Rasputin
Rachel Summers
Thanos - a mutant Titan
Iceman

many missing

[Morning Robin]

Don't forget the X-Men 2099. I don't know if they are powerful, I didn't read it very much.

[Huzzah!]

But he didn't seem shaken when he got up at all.

The whole gist of the story was that Gladiator did not think this puny human (pronounced puny you-mahn ;)) would be able to take his strongest punch...and when he did, Gladiator was shaken, at which point Sam punched him HARD.

Once he got up (which was right after the X-Men showed up), he would realize that Sam was a formidable foe, and would treat him accordingly.

-Brian


You said it yourself. That was his strongest punch. If you know someone can take your strongest and it doesnt do anything against him confidence will surely be shaken. That was all he had and cannonball took it.

When he goes to swing he wont be thinking this will destroy him, he will be thinking oh my god how did he take that. This guy is powerful. Etc. Which will cause him to lose.


To get this slightly back on topic Cannonball is an incredibly powerful mutant too.

Yeah thats it

[emma_frost]

i would have to say
professor X
magneto
and jean gray ( with power of the phonix) i dont really what jean can do on her own i mean i dont know how powerful she is by herself.
i'm sure that there is more but thats what i have for now.

[nubly]

Don't forget the X-Men 2099. I don't know if they are powerful, I didn't read it very much.

they arent

[Dizzy D]

they arent

Timothy Fitzgerald was in his final incarnation very powerful (a being of pure energy that could manipulate energy as he wished.)

But the rest were mostly mid-level with useful, but not omega-level powers.

[Smarty Jones]

"Thanos without his technolgy can be fought by several mutants of high levels. Like Hyperstorm. Hyperstorm could eradicate Thanos if need be in a direct fight."

You're kidding, right? An alternate-reality son of Franklin Richards and Rachel Summers who likely will never come to fruition, right? An escapee from the "Days of Future Past" storyline whose "father" in the mainstream Marvel Universe has lost his powers and is at least 10 years younger than Summers?!?

Hyperstorm can't be taken seriously until he makes more appearances. He could be a one-shot storyline deal.

Thanos' physical dimension and powers overwhelm most other mutant choices.

* He is at least in the Class 100 strength level, meaning he can lift at least 100 tons.

* He is a more than able fighter, as seen by the fact he held off Thor and The Thing simultaneously in combat.

* He can synthesize cosmic energy for certain personal uses. Thanos has shown in the past that he can increase his physical strength and resilience to levels surpassing even the strongest of the Earth Eternals.

* He can tap, transform and direct vast quantities of cosmic energy for destructive force.

* His skin is nearly invulnerable, particularly against heat, cold, electricity, radiation, toxins, aging and disease. He can survive indefinitely without food or water even before his "curse" from Death left him immortal, unable to die.

* His mind is also invulnerable to most forms of psychic attack, and can project a psionic blast of energy as well as blasts of plasma/cosmic energy from his eyes and hands.

Factor in a superhuman level of intellect and a dedication to the destruction of life, and Thanos is nearly unbeatable. It takes nearly an entire who's who of Marvel Universe characters to slow him down, much less take him out.

[Dizzy D]

But much of that isn't 'mutant power' Thanos is so powerful because he augmented himself with technology and mysticism and Death augmented him again.

[Smarty Jones]

"But much of that isn't 'mutant power' Thanos is so powerful because he augmented himself with technology and mysticism and Death augmented him again."

Yes, Death augmented Thanos' powers after his resurrection. But before his death, Thanos had all the aforementioned abilities. Remember, he took on The Avengers (including Thor and Iron Man), The Thing and Spider-Man all at once during his final battle before Adam Warlock turned him into stone.

Even with the augmentations (I consider his meditations nothing more than mental conditioning and a holistic way of enhancing his abilities -- that's like taking down a hero for enrolling yoga classes), what makes Thanos a mutant is that he was born with considerably more strength and power than the Titan Eternals (a typical Eternal can lift only 15 tons, compared to Thanos' 100-plus tons). He also absorbs a lot of cosmic energy -- a trait associated with the Earth-born Eternals.

[Vegetarian Goat]

That's a pretty novel choice... i've honestly never thought of Thanos as a mutant, but i guess he meets all the requiremens.

[Dizzy D]

Yes, Death augmented Thanos' powers after his resurrection. But before his death, Thanos had all the aforementioned abilities. Remember, he took on The Avengers (including Thor and Iron Man), The Thing and Spider-Man all at once during his final battle before Adam Warlock turned him into stone.

Even with the augmentations, what makes Thanos a mutant is that he was born with considerably more strength and power than the Titan Eternals (a typical Eternal can lift only 15 tons, compared to Thanos' 100 tons). He also absorbs a lot of cosmic energy -- a trait associated with the Earth-born Eternals.

And Thanos father is an Earth-born Eternal, so it isn't a real mutant ability (definition of mutant: an ability or trait neither parent has).

From the Handbook:
"Through still unknown bionic amplification Thanos increased his strength and resilience to levels suprassing even the strongest of the Earth Eternal. Through meditation and certain mystical techniques Thanos augmented his power in still other ways, enabling him to tap, transform and direct vast quantities of cosmic energy for destructive force."

[Smarty Jones]

"And Thanos father is an Earth-born Eternal, so it isn't a real mutant ability (definition of mutant: an ability or trait neither parent has)."

Then you better throw out Hyperstorm (who basically has the same abilities as his alternate-reality father) and Cable (whose abilities are tangentially related to Jean Grey, the woman whose DNA was cloned to create Madelyne Pryor), among other mutants with the same or similar abilities as their parents (the likes of Theresa Cassidy and possibly Rachel Summers).

What makes Thanos a mutant is his power levels are considerably higher than either the Earth- or Titan-born Eternals. Most of The Eternals are locked in at certain strength levels, while Thanos far surpasses most, if not all, Eternals.

As for meditation: Although an Eternal may be born with less potential for one ability than another, he or she can overcome that difference through training, Eternals develop their superhuman abilities through training and discipline over their long lives. Sersi, for example, is acknowledged to have developed her talent for matter rearrangement far more than any other known Eternal has. How come that can't apply to Thanos?

[Erik F]

If you look at it realistically (okay, flame away), the seemingly minor folks with "luck" or probability-altering powers are potentially the most powerful in the universe.

Y'see, there's really no such thing as "luck" in quantum terms. All possible events DO happen, each creating alternate worldlines, but the highest average is the one we see as happening. Someone like Domino or Longshot has the ability (whether or not they tap it to its fullest) to alter reality on the subatomic level to determine the desired outcome.

For example, toss a coin. It can land heads or tails, or it can miss your hand and hit the floor. All three possibilities take place. Say the coin lands on your hand heads-up. It still landed heads-down, and it also rolled under the coffee table. It was just more likely to land heads-up, so that's the reality we see. Seems insignificant, but somebody with conscious control over that process has control over EVERYTHING that happens in the world on a subsurface level. Extrapolate that to larger-scale events, and you could yank Jean off the shuttle before she dies or prevent the Draco storyline from ever taking place.

Adamantium claws, my butt. THAT'S the superpower I'd want.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I know the bastiches in the marvel think tank offed Synch.
But the ability to duplicate any mutant power around you without contact is pretty impressive. Thats like rogue with actual control. I don't know the limits of M's powers or chambers, if Sinister feared Cyclops, maybe the rest of us underestimate him.

other than that I say Proteus, Legion, Prof. X, Magneto, Storm, Sebastian Shaw, Apacolypse, Franklin Richards(did they really take away his powers?)
And ME.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Hyperstorm exists in an alternate reality. Thanos is very real in the mainstream Marvel Universe; it has taken all of the Avengers, Thing, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Moondragon, & Adam Warlock to defeat Thanos in the past. Thanos' mind is his most dangerous weapon besides his mutant physiology.

An alternate reality? He punked out the FF right here in the 616. He came from a distant future but his origins start with Franklin Richards. Naturally, Hyperstorm can squash Thanos. Thanos without technolgy doesn't really stand a chance against him except taking the attacks because of his stamina.

[Smarty Jones]

"An alternate reality? He punked out the FF right here in the 616. He came from a distant future but his origins start with Franklin Richards. Naturally, Hyperstorm can squash Thanos. Thanos without technolgy doesn't really stand a chance against him except taking the attacks because of his stamina."

You're right. Hyperstorm can barely get past The Fantastic Four while it took damn near the entire Marvel Universe's top heroes to stop Thanos EACH TIME. Also, Thanos is immortal (as granted by Lady Death), and I think Death's "curse" would stand in any universe over Hyperstorm's abilities.

[Flight]

Thanos????
Since when was he a mutant??

[FOX]

I heard Proteus is now a cosmic being, can anyone confirm this?

Legion is also high on this list.

[Dizzy D]

Then you better throw out Hyperstorm (who basically has the same abilities as his alternate-reality father) and Cable (whose abilities are tangentially related to Jean Grey, the woman whose DNA was cloned to create Madelyne Pryor), among other mutants with the same or similar abilities as their parents (the likes of Theresa Cassidy and possibly Rachel Summers).

What makes Thanos a mutant is his power levels are considerably higher than either the Earth- or Titan-born Eternals. Most of The Eternals are locked in at certain strength levels, while Thanos far surpasses most, if not all, Eternals.

As for meditation: Although an Eternal may be born with less potential for one ability than another, he or she can overcome that difference through training, Eternals develop their superhuman abilities through training and discipline over their long lives. Sersi, for example, is acknowledged to have developed her talent for matter rearrangement far more than any other known Eternal has. How come that can't apply to Thanos?


Wonderful how you can keep ignoring bionic augmentation and mystical techniques and only see the word meditation of the three things he used to amplify his powers.

And first you say that Thanos difference is his higher power-level and then you say that every Eternal can raise their power-level with training and discipline.

Hyperstorm has different powers than Franklin Richards: Hyperstorm taps into hyperspace, Franklin had reality-altering and psionic powers.

Rachel and Cable both have powers their parents lack: timetravel. But I do't count Rachel as most powerful because she has the Phoenix.

FOX: Proteus did away with his metal weakness when he absorbed Piecemeal, but he gave up life as we know it shortly after that. It's always possible that he could return from his current state, but he was happy as disembodied energy, so it's unlikely.

[Smarty Jones]

"Wonderful how you can keep ignoring bionic augmentation and mystical techniques and only see the word meditation of the three things he used to amplify his powers."

Even with bionic augmentation and mystical training -- which have never been fully defined, BTW -- Thanos has been shown as clearly more powerful than most Eternals. That's what makes him a mutant -- he is stronger, has a different appearance from and can manipulate energy better than most other Eternals (mostly because of his massive physical form).

"And first you say that Thanos difference is his higher power-level and then you say that every Eternal can raise their power-level with training and discipline."

No, with training and discipline over the centuries an Eternal can develop a certain mastery over a skill, maybe better than the others. For instance, most of us have a rudimentary skill to draw but with training and dedication a talented artist will shine compared to the rest. Sersi is an example of an Eternal who has accomplished that level of manipulation, and so is Thanos.

"Hyperstorm has different powers than Franklin Richards: Hyperstorm taps into hyperspace, Franklin had reality-altering and psionic powers."

Hyperstorm tapped into a cosmic source of energy and could control reality -- just like his alternate-reality father, Franklin Richards. Sounds like the same power to me.

"Rachel and Cable both have powers their parents lack: timetravel. But I do't count Rachel as most powerful because she has the Phoenix."

Cable's mutant abilities are telepathy and telekinesis, not time travel. Nathan Summers has the same powers as Jean Grey, whose DNA was cloned to created Cable's biological mother, Madelyne Pryor.

Rachel Summers' mutant powers include time travel, but some people are considering her because of her ability to access the Phoenix Force (which is a cosmic power beyond her mutant ability, and something her alternate-reality mother did). She also has some abilities that are similar to Grey's, including innate telepathic powers -- which is why I said she may get consideration under your assumption Thanos is not a mutant because he was not different from his parents.

If Thanos is not a mutant according to your definition (and not the Marvel Unvierse's), then Cable, Hyperstorm, Siryn and possibly Rachel Summers among others are not mutants as well.

[Smarty Jones]

"Thanos???? Since when was he a mutant??"

Thanos always has been identified as a mutant Titan. Because of his massive frame and freakish appearance, he is stronger and more powerful than most Eternals born on Earth or Titan and can absorb cosmic rays at a greater rate than the typical Eternal.

Not all mutants were born on Earth and belong in the X-Universe. It also has been hinted that the genetic mutant trait is the result of The Celestials' (the beings that created The Eternals) experimentations with human DNA centuries ago.

[Flight]

I wonder what the most powerful mutants in the world are. Well, that ends the Thanos debate!

[Smarty Jones]

Not really. If that is the case, no one needs to mention Jean Grey and Rachel Summers, who wouldn't be on this list if they could not access a cosmic force.

You basically want to discount Thanos because he doesn't have an X on his belt. Sorry, the debate is who is the most powerful mutant -- not the most powerful mutant in an X-book or tangentially related to The X-Men.

[Flight]

Ok, well I have no problem in booting Grey and Grey off the list too then!
And errr, this was the X-Board last time I checked!

[Dizzy D]

Even with bionic augmentation and mystical training -- which have never been fully defined, BTW -- Thanos has been shown as clearly more powerful than most Eternals. That's what makes him a mutant -- he is stronger, has a different appearance from and can manipulate energy better than most other Eternals (mostly because of his massive physical form).
And when have we ever seen Thanos' powers before those amplification and mystical training? He was training and enhancing himself before he attacked Titan.

No, with training and discipline over the centuries an Eternal can develop a certain mastery over a skill, maybe better than the others. For instance, most of us have a rudimentary skill to draw but with training and dedication a talented artist will shine compared to the rest. Sersi is an example of an Eternal who has accomplished that level of manipulation, and so is Thanos.

OK.

Hyperstorm tapped into a cosmic source of energy and could control reality -- just like his alternate-reality father, Franklin Richards. Sounds like the same power to me.

Same result, different way of achieving it. Hyperstorm taps into hyperspace, Franklin uses psionic energy.

Cable's mutant abilities are telepathy and telekinesis, not time travel. Nathan Summers has the same powers as Jean Grey, whose DNA was cloned to created Cable's biological mother, Madelyne Pryor.

Prosh told Cable that his power is time-travel.
Cable has time-travelled under his own power at several times: during his fight with X-man he jumped several seconds into the future to avoid an attack from Nate Grey
He travelled to the future to free Rachel Summers from Gaunt without a working time-travel machine.
It's a power he never mastered nor developed but it is a power he has.

Rachel Summers' mutant powers include time travel, but some people are considering her because of her ability to access the Phoenix Force (which is a cosmic power beyond her mutant ability, and something her alternate-reality mother did). She also has some abilities that are similar to Grey's, including innate telepathic powers -- which is why I said she may get consideration under your assumption Thanos is not a mutant because he was not different from his parents.

If Thanos is not a mutant according to your definition (and not the Marvel Unvierse's), then Cable, Hyperstorm, Siryn and possibly Rachel Summers among others are not mutants as well.

The Marvel Universe uses two different definitions of mutant:
1) the scientific one: born with a trait that neither parent possesses.
and
2) Belonging to the race of Homo Sapiens Mutantis or Homo Sapiens Superior.

Siryn isn't a mutant according to the first definition but is one according to the second definition.
Thanos isn't a mutant according to the second definition, but he may be according to the first (his rocky, purple skin being his mutant trait)
Namor would be one according to the first, but not according to the second.
and on and on and on.
The problem is that Marvel keeps using both definitions and doesn't make a difference between the two types of mutants.

[Smarty Jones]

"Ok, well I have no problem in booting Grey and Grey off the list too then! And errr, this was the X-Board last time I checked!"

Sounds like you're trying to come with up a loophole to remove Thanos. It's apparent who is the front-runner, because there is no way most of the aforementioned can stake a claim to Thanos. Nice try.

[Flight]

Well you seem to be the only one campainging Thanos so no one else really cares

[Mr. Jip]

Thanos IS a mutant, a mutant Eternal.
YES.
BUT his awesome abilities are augmented by technologies & Mistress Death.

Jean & Rachel are augmented by the Phoenix Force.

But Jean or Rache, without the Phoenix Force, could just telekinetically tie knots in Thanos' intestines & move his food around & we'd have an incapacitated Thanos.

And we can always have Franklin wish that Thanos was a big blob of lime jelly somewhere else, away from him.
There. Thanos is a big blob of lime jelly discorporating in the primordial sea of the Jurrasic period on an alternate earth.

[The Lucky One]

Warlock. He's not a human mutant, but he's a mutant Technarch and has the potential to be insanely powerful. If he reaches his father the Magus's level of power -- which he should if he lives long enough -- he'll be able to tear stars apart with his bare hands. And infect any and everyone who gets in his way.

-D

[Smarty Jones]

"But Jean or Rache, without the Phoenix Force, could just telekinetically tie knots in Thanos' intestines & move his food around & we'd have an incapacitated Thanos."

Without The Phoenix Force, Jean Grey and Rachel Summers are afterthoughts. Grey has not shown the ability to take on take out the likes of Bastion, so what chance would she have against Thanos? The same with her alternate-reality daughter, who seems even more dependent on The Phoenix Force.

As stated several times, Thanos is a mutant Titan Eternal. He's considerably more powerful than the average Eternal, and what augmentations he's used -- and how much of his abilities have derived from them (which doesn't seem to be a lot) -- has never been determined.

Let me ask this question to you and The Lucky One: How much of Thanos do you two think is not actually his mutant powers? I know he received a slight power-up from his ressurrection, but that doesn't explain his power, strength and abilities before he died. I don't see any bionics on his person, so unlike a Grey there is no clear distinction between his mutant abilities and his augmentation (if there is any). You two act like Thanos really is a tiny alien controlling a full-body suit, a la "Men in Black."

I'll take my chances on a mutant Titan who can swap punches with Thor and The Thing at the same time over two mutants who can't beat automations.

"And we can always have Franklin wish that Thanos was a big blob of lime jelly somewhere else, away from him."

Call me when Franklin Richards gets his powers back.

Well you seem to be the only one campainging Thanos so no one else really cares

Just like you're the only one complaining. So who really cares?

[Brian888]

Lockheed. He's been with the X-men long enough to be an honorary mutant at the very least, and he owned Ord after Ord thoroughly kicked collective X-ass in AXM #2. Wolvie was right; he should be team leader. :D

[Morning Robin]

Lockheed. He's been with the X-men long enough to be an honorary mutant at the very least, and he owned Ord after Ord thoroughly kicked collective X-ass in AXM #2. Wolvie was right; he should be team leader. :D

I don't know...I mean, he has questionable taste in music.

"Puff the magic dragon"...? :confused:

[Brian888]

I don't know...I mean, he has questionable taste in music.

"Puff the magic dragon"...? :confused:


He's a flawed hero. It's Marvel.

[The Fury]

Lockheed. He's been with the X-men long enough to be an honorary mutant at the very least, and he owned Ord after Ord thoroughly kicked collective X-ass in AXM #2. Wolvie was right; he should be team leader. :D
You mean the non-mutant alien dragon that is not from earth?

Yeah, doesn't count.

[Brian888]

You mean the non-mutant alien dragon that is not from earth?

Yeah, doesn't count.


I know. It was a joke. Just wanted to spread the Lockheed love.

[Morning Robin]

He's a flawed hero. It's Marvel.

:D

Fury, I think he was joking around dude. Unclench! LMAO

[The Fury]

I know. It was a joke. Just wanted to spread the Lockheed love.
My mistake, Spread away.

*Stupid Fury*

[Rubicant]

He shouldn't be able to be hurt by anything physical.

Except when Colossus got heated white hot by Pyro and then doused with liquid nitrogen. Oh, and then he got hit with an acid pellet by Deathbird and then speared through the same wound. And then when X-Cutioner beat on him with a Z'nox light saber.

[JCMAHAL]

I agree Thanos should remain on the list, he is in my top list also.

Topic asked for most powerful Mutant, Thanos is a mutant for his race, so he's considered a mutant.

I don't understand why people won't classify Thanos as a Mutant jsut because the Titan's are inborn with powers already, and it doesn't matter if he was "modified" or "improved upon" lacing wolverine with Admunatium still makes him a mutant.

[Uatu]

My vote goes to Professor X. He can basically shut down the brain of anyone he wants with next to no effort, and with Cerebro he can do it over great distances.

Smarty why do you always have to argue with people about their opinions. Why can't you just say that Thanos is your pick and leave it at that without trying make everyone see things as you do. Can't you just accept the fact that we all have different views.

I mean fine, put a post to back up why you think Thanos is the most powerfull, but you don't need to post a comment about how Thanos is better than this mutant or that mutant everytime someone puts a new post up. It really hard to enjoy oneself on these boards when there are people picking apart your every comment for no reason other than for sake of argument.

Fine you think Thanos is all powerfull, someone else thinks it's Phoenix, there is no need for a thesis paper length post just you can attemp to disprove something. Also you seem to have a wicked attitude when commenting. I don't know you in real life, but the tone of your posts make you sound like a jerk. If you want to try and sway people to your side, which is fine, that is the point of discussion, please try and do it with a litte more compassion.

[Smarty Jones]

"I don't understand why people won't classify Thanos as a Mutant jsut because the Titan's are inborn with powers already, and it doesn't matter if he was 'modified' or 'improved upon' lacing wolverine with Admunatium still makes him a mutant."

My point exactly. The Scarlet Witch uses her training in the mystical arts as a disciplinary tool to access and make better use of her mutant abilities. Magneto has used other mutants (Fabian Cortez, Polaris) and machinery to enhance his magentic powers. Professor Xavier uses Cerebro to enahnce his mental abilities.

Yet because Thanos has used some sort regimented training (the mystical arts) to make better use of his mutant abilities, he should be disqualified? As for the bionic enhancements, it's not determined how much (if any) he uses. That's been a footnote in his abilities for decades, and there is no such enhancement that can be seen on his person to suggest he is overly dependent on such technology.

"Smarty why do you always have to argue with people about their opinions. Why can't you just say that Thanos is your pick and leave it at that without trying make everyone see things as you do. Can't you just accept the fact that we all have different views."

I have never addressed you in any matter, and yet you're following people around complaining about them posting in conversations in which you have not been addressed.

"It really hard to enjoy oneself on these boards when there are people picking apart your every comment for no reason other than for sake of argument."

Since I have never talked to you, it sounds like your personal problem.

"Also you seem to have a wicked attitude when commenting. I don't know you in real life, but the tone of your posts make you sound like a jerk."

Since I have never talked to you, it sounds like your personal problem.

[Uatu]

After talking with Vegetarian Goat I retract my vote for Prof. X and put one in to Franklin Richards as the most powerfull mutant. Also maybe I'm wrong but I thought in the MU you needed to have the x-gene to be classified as a mutant. Does Thanos have it? I will agree with Smarty on one point if you are a mutant and you use something outside of you to enhance your poweres you shouldn't be disqualified. Onslaught is also pretty powerfull.

[Vegetarian Goat]

After talking with Vegetarian Goat I retract my vote for Prof. X and put one in to Franklin Richards as the most powerfull mutant.

Copycat. Great- now who do i get to vote for? I choose Toad.

[mattbib]

Holly-Ann Ember from the Aladdin Effect. She had the power to make her wishes come true, maybe not as powerful as Franklin but still damn powerful.

[Zenith10]

1 Apocalyspe
2 Magneto
3 Professor X
4 Storm
5 Cable
6 Sinister (might as well be a mutant just a scaled down Apocalyspe)
I would also have to add Iceman more for his potential yet to be realised, hell with the speed of thought the guy just freezes the blood in anyone (or all) of the heavyhitters above and they just drop dead!!!!!

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Sounds like you're trying to come with up a loophole to remove Thanos. It's apparent who is the front-runner, because there is no way most of the aforementioned can stake a claim to Thanos. Nice try.

Can't stake a claim to him? Yeah right. Hyperstorm>Thanos.

[handOFfate]

Wow. Never imagined my post could get so much feedback :)

[Green Goblin 4]

hyperstorm over thanos, unless thanos has the gauntlet. then it's all over, unless u trick him. damn u nebula. magneto and portal (charles little sky) are my favorite though.

[Smarty Jones]

"Can't stake a claim to him? Yeah right. Hyperstorm>Thanos."

If you say so, but of course Hyperstorm has to do something of note to even be considered more than a one-storyline pony who could barely take out The Fantastic Four (right now, he's up there with Alpha). I'll take Thanos, who has nearly destroyed the Marvel Universe three times.

"Also maybe I'm wrong but I thought in the MU you needed to have the x-gene to be classified as a mutant."

A mutant is any progeny whose abilities are different from his or her parents -- or in the superhero context, someone who is born with superhuman abilities. There are several mutants in comic books (Namor, Thanos and Starhawk of The Guardians of The Galaxy in Marvel, Ferro Lad in DC's Legion of Super-Heroes, Anvil in Stryke Force), but people think the X-family has a patent on the term.

Also, when he first Celestial Host came to Earth one million years ago to perform genetic tests and experimentation on humans (creating the Eternals and the Deviants), it implanted a dormant DNA complex which would one day permit benevolent mutations. That dormant DNA complex has become activated by the worldwide increase in radiation levels -- meaning that mutants may be the result of such experiments (and Thanos and the X-family mutants basically evolved from the same tree).

[Uatu]

Copycat. Great- now who do i get to vote for? I choose Toad.

Why not pick Franklin Richards from another reality, if there is one

[Guts/Batman]

i'm not really a marvel reader....but will dabble in some soon. I was wondering who are the most powerful mutants in the marvel universe. I have my own ideas but i might jus sound stupid but i'll try.

Apocolypse
Magneto
Prof X
Phoenix
Onslaught
X-Man

Those are in no particular. Just tell me if i'm stupid if i'm completely off base.

[The Shadow]

wouldn't it all begin and end with Phoenix?

[1HELLBOY]

Magneto and Prof. X are definately two of the most powerful, maybe Apocalypse, and i don't know much about Onslaught or X-Man

Now my problem with the Phoenix Force as a mutant is it's not a mutant, its a god...that is, IF yer talking about the Force itself, but f yer talking about Jean or Rachel, then yes, they are VERY powerful...with the Phoenix Force

[mattbib]

Now my problem with the Phoenix Force as a mutant is it's not a mutant, its a god...that is, IF yer talking about the Force itself, but f yer talking about Jean or Rachel, then yes, they are VERY powerful...with the Phoenix ForceBut if you go with Morrison's concept that the Phoenix is actually a higher psionic plane, then yes, Jean and Quentin are extremely powerful as only extremely powerful psis can wield the Phoenix force and transcend to the White Hot Room.

[mastaflan]

Other than the Obvious....

Iceman: His ability to freeze H20 on such a scale can be quite catistrophic if he was a bad guy. You control water like that then you control life. Plus he survived when he was shattered as ice.

Quick Silver: Speed Goes A long way. It is a writers nightmare having to deal with super speed.

Madrox: If he can be in many different places at the same time imagine if he took the time to have each of his selves study and practice skills...Dangerous guy.

[Mariah]

[QUOTE=Smarty Jones]If you say so, but of course Hyperstorm has to do something of note to even be considered more than a one-storyline pony who could barely take out The Fantastic Four (right now, he's up there with Alpha). I'll take Thanos, who has nearly destroyed the Marvel Universe three times.
But doesn't Thanos have an uncanny ability to make himself fail all the fricken time too? Sure, he killed Half the universe, but it was fixed, everyone got better. Phoenix ate a sun, and burped out the broccoli(sp?) people. Professor X has repelled a alien invasion with the thoughts of everyone on the planet. People(and i'm not directing this totally at you Smarty)need to get over it. They're comic books, don't get ulcer's from people not agreeing with you.

[jetter_cheeze]

Madrox: If he can be in many different places at the same time imagine if he took the time to have each of his selves study and practice skills...Dangerous guy.

The Madrox LS took this question and ran with it.



Another Note: Glad to see X-Man in this. He was powerful until his death. Why don't they bring back this character?

[mattbib]

Another Note: Glad to see X-Man in this. He was powerful until his death. Why don't they bring back this character?Because he's confusing and redundant. :)

[mastaflan]

Because he's confusing and redundant. :)


Kinda like Cables mom Madelyn Prior...but I am not even gonna front I hated cable and I wanted X-man to be the man but things turned out differently and now Cable is like way cool..

[Luigi]

I voted for the guy in Ultimate X-Men 42. The kid who releases toxins and kills anyone in a certain radius around him. He was so dangerous that they had to kill him.

[Shellhead]

The Living Monolith.

[aelio]

You seem to be pretty dead on with the list. I'm not sure if I would include Onslaught though, especially since Mags and Chuck are already mentioned. Also, wouldn't you guys include Franklin Richards here too? I sometimes forget about him since he isn't in any X-books, but can't he alter reality or something? It seemed like that is what Onslaught wanted him for.

[Grazzt]

Some not mentioned that I think should make the cut:

Storm
Selene
Scarlet Witch

[Master Darque]

This thread is in 2 different topics ...so in the other thread , Franklin was mentioned , as were a few other characters . This thread needs to be merged in one place or the other .

[Nyssane]

Don't forget Siena Blaze.

[jarrod]

I'd say all the reality/matter warpers. Dunno who's on the top but...

-Jean Grey-Summers (deceased)
-Rachel Grey
-Nathan Summers (crippled by TO-virus)
-Nate Grey (deceased)
-Madelyne Pryor (deceased)
-Wanda Maximoff
-Kevin McTaggert (deceased)
-James Jaspers (latent?)
-Jamie Braddock
-Franklin Richards

...anyone else?

[Tobias March]

Some not mentioned that I think should make the cut:

Selene

What was the story with her? I know she pretty much wiped out the Externals and the writer used her to retcon Cannonball's whole immortal subplot - but what was she actually capable of. Part from not dying....

Other suggestions...

Shadow King

Legion (deceased - living plot hole ;) )

Lila Cheney (intergalactic teleporter - don't know if it's particularly powerful, but.....intergalactic!!)

M (given that her, vaguely defined, power meant that she could simply....BE what she saw as being powerful)

[jetter_cheeze]

Because he's confusing and redundant. :)


i always thought if they stuck with what Ellis did with him and ran it for longer he would have been a lot less confusing and redundant as some say.

[Grazzt]

What was the story with her? I know she pretty much wiped out the Externals and the writer used her to retcon Cannonball's whole immortal subplot - but what was she actually capable of. Part from not dying....

I believe her actual mutant power is to drain the life forces off of people. Beyond that though she's well practiced in magic. And she's probably one of the oldest beings on Marvel Earth right now (she was alive during the Hyperborean age, which would make her older than Apocalypse).

[Artemis1]

Here are mine(not in order):
Apocalypse-I don't mean the jobbered one, I mean the original. This guy was a beast! He took out the X-Men with little effort!

Magneto-Meet the X-Men's part creator and #1 enemy. He can toss around up to 100 tons of metal and do whatever he wants with it.

Xavier-The most powerful telepath.

X Man-His powers were almost beyond mutant.

Cyclops-His blasts shatter mountans

[Indy24LA]

I'll say Rogue, she has the potential to be the most powerful.

[Sir_Hawkeye]

Here are my choices:

X-man: This guy is obviose really
Franklin Richards: I only saw one entry of him and he is thr most powerful by far!
Phoenix(Jean & Rachel): They can destroy stars beat that baby!
Apocolpsye: Well his name says it all really
Magneto: Even in Planet X this guys power has yet to hit its limits and personally I think if he really wanted to he could take over Earth.
Scarlet Witch: Do I really have to explain why.
Onslaught: As dumb as he is he is really powerful.
Jamie Bradock: He kicks ass
Wolverine: Really not an omega level mutie but really hes pretty tough.
Proffesor X: Yeah he can do kick ur ass while not moving!

EDIT: How could I forget Pyro: The Villian who can control fire that could really become really good if it was put to good use. Imagine lighting a lighter in New York City and all of a sudden he inflames all of New York how cool is that!

[Brian888]

I mentioned him in the other thread too: Thanos. He's a mutant, just not a human mutant. And he tends to put everyone else to shame.

[Neolucifer]

Thanos
The Shadow King
Elias Bogan
Onslaught
Franklin Richard
Scarlet Witch (just imagine if onslaught captured her , instead of Franklin)
Jamie Bradock
Magneto
Legion
Xavier
X-man
The current Cable
Havok

[MrBiggs7]

What about that kid from Marvel Team-Up? His ability to produce power seemed to have no bounds. It was even capable of powering up a dimension hopping device.

[LordAllMighty]

Mutants with an * by their names have the potential to go up the list

Mentalist-Ability to project mental energy for various affects.

Franklin Richards
Mutant Alpha (should be still be consider a earth mutant)
X-Man/Cable
Proteus
Cassandra Nova (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Legion
Professor X*
Exodus*
Shadow King
Phoenix* (Jean Grey)
Marvel Girl* (Rachel Summers Grey)
Spellbinder*
White Queen
Blaquesmith
Black Queen
Gamemaster*
Sundragon (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Mastermind
Psylocke
Sage*
Memsmero
Chamber*
Karma* (does possess other telepathic abilities)
Justice
Lady Mastermind
Mastermind
Stepford Cuckoos*
Moonstar*
Artie*
Scanner
Typhoid Mary (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Caliban

Elementals-Mutants that have specific control over elemental forces or certain part of their environment.

Magneto
Joseph*
Mikhail Rasputin
Storm*
Iceman*
Polaris *
Scarlet Witch*
Meggan*
Magma
Pyro
Rusty Collins
Box
Wiz Kid

Energy Projectors-Ability to project energy

Xorn
Nemesis
Living Monolith*
Bishop *
Dazzler*
Havok*
Banshee
Firestar*
Sunfire
Thunderbird
Cyclops
Siryn
Avalanche
Sunspot
Rictor
Darkstar
Dagger
Aurora
Pete Wisdom
Magik
Jubilee*
Meltdown
Black Tom
Skids
Bedlam
Harpoon
Unus
Gambit
Cannonball
Cecelia Reyes
Silver Samurai
Leech
Gateway
Slipstream
Amelia Voght
Lila Cheney
Laura Dean
Shatterstar
Vertigo

Strength- Ability to lift weights

Apocalypse (Class 100)
Namor (Class 100)
Colossus (Class 100)
Warpath (90+)
Blockbuster (75 +)
Black King (50+)
Rogue (50+)
Strong Guy (50+)
Blob (50+)
Sabra (50)
Arclight (50)
Sunspot (25+)
M (25 +)
Cargill (25 +)
Beast (10)
Nekra (10)

Baseline- Mutants that possesses enhanced physical or mental abilities that are greater then normal humans

Speedster:
Northstar
Aurora
Quicksilver *
Super Saber

Fighters:
Beast
Sabretooth
Lobo*
Wolverine
Omega Red
Nightcrawler*
Toad
Whirlwind
Wolfsbane
Feral
Thorn
Wild Child
Goblyn
Domino*
Marrow
Archangel*
Callisto
Crimson Commando

Others:
Lifeguard
Diamond Lil
Shadowcat
Changeling
Mystique*
Multiple Man
Maverick
Stacy X
Infectia
Forge
Maggot

[kudlaty.true]

So i've got a better question, cause this is old. Which one of the mutants would you put together (only two, no three or more, to work in pair) to be "the best"?

[The Anti-Existence]

So i've got a better question, cause this is old. Which one of the mutants would you put together (only two, no three or more, to work in pair) to be "the best"?

Well, for one, Franklin on his own could beat just about anyone. He is the ultimate result of the Celestials experimentation. People are fond of calling him a "mini-Celestial" right now but if he ever fully realizes his potential, he'd be more like a mini-Living Tribunal because his reality warping should easily span to the multiversal level and there's no one short of LT should be able to stop it then, I feel.

As for an actual good duo, Apocalypse and God-like Cable would work well. They are mortal enemies of a sort, but they both have vast amounts of power.

Mentalist-Ability to project mental energy for various affects.

Franklin Richards
Mutant Alpha (should be still be consider a earth mutant)
X-Man/Cable
Proteus
Cassandra Nova (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Legion
Professor X*
Exodus*
Shadow King
Phoenix* (Jean Grey)
Marvel Girl* (Rachel Summers Grey)
Spellbinder*
White Queen
Blaquesmith
Black Queen
Gamemaster*
Sundragon (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Mastermind
Psylocke
Sage*
Memsmero
Chamber*
Karma* (does possess other telepathic abilities)
Justice
Lady Mastermind
Mastermind
Stepford Cuckoos*
Moonstar*
Artie*
Scanner
Typhoid Mary (not 100% sure if she a mutant)
Caliban

Elementals-Mutants that have specific control over elemental forces or certain part of their environment.

Magneto
Joseph*
Mikhail Rasputin
Storm*
Iceman*
Polaris *
Scarlet Witch*
Meggan*
Magma
Pyro
Rusty Collins
Box
Wiz Kid

Energy Projectors-Ability to project energy

Xorn
Nemesis
Living Monolith*
Bishop *
Dazzler*
Havok*
Banshee
Firestar*
Sunfire
Thunderbird
Cyclops
Siryn
Avalanche
Sunspot
Rictor
Darkstar
Dagger
Aurora
Pete Wisdom
Magik
Jubilee*
Meltdown
Black Tom
Skids
Bedlam
Harpoon
Unus
Gambit
Cannonball
Cecelia Reyes
Silver Samurai
Leech
Gateway
Slipstream
Amelia Voght
Lila Cheney
Laura Dean
Shatterstar
Vertigo

Strength- Ability to lift weights

Apocalypse (Class 100)
Namor (Class 100)
Colossus (Class 100)
Warpath (90+)
Blockbuster (75 +)
Black King (50+)
Rogue (50+)
Strong Guy (50+)
Blob (50+)
Sabra (50)
Arclight (50)
Sunspot (25+)
M (25 +)
Cargill (25 +)
Beast (10)
Nekra (10)

Baseline- Mutants that possesses enhanced physical or mental abilities that are greater then normal humans

Speedster:
Northstar
Aurora
Quicksilver *
Super Saber

Fighters:
Beast
Sabretooth
Lobo*
Wolverine
Omega Red
Nightcrawler*
Toad
Whirlwind
Wolfsbane
Feral
Thorn
Wild Child
Goblyn
Domino*
Marrow
Archangel*
Callisto
Crimson Commando

Others:
Lifeguard
Diamond Lil
Shadowcat
Changeling
Mystique*
Multiple Man
Maverick
Stacy X
Infectia
Forge
Maggot

A very good list but if you look at everything Apocalypse can do - he belongs in every single group pretty much. He has some level of psionic control (like everything else, it was there and then kinda got forgotten about), energy manipulation and of course that strength which is supposedly incalculable if you go by most sources. He's like the Hulk - Hulk gets angrier, he gets stronger. Apocalypse draws on some source for his strength so it should keep going up and up.

But, anyway, my top 3 are:

1. Franklin Richards- This little twerp has shown time and again reality warping powers beyond any other (save for Mad Jim Jaspers) and created a pocket universe at 8. He was shown in an alternate timeline to simply "think" himself Galactus and he was Galactus. The Celestials themselves acknowledge him as the ultimate creation and end result of their experiments on Earth.

2. X-Man/Shaman Nate Grey and God-like Cable- Nathan Grey and Nate Summers, heralding from different timelines, have immense psionic power. Nate Grey was born by Sinister for the sole purpose of having the strength to destroy Apocalypse who had managed to take over the world in Age of Apocalypse. Cable was born for much the same purpose in the proper timeline but was infected by a techno-organic virus that severely limited his potential and power. With it removed, he performed astounding feats, even managing to destroy Silver Surfer's board while levitating Providence with his TK. These two, I feel, are equal in power.

3. Apocalypse- He should be #1.5 next to Franklin but he is (this is conjecture but pretty solid cojecture) limited by the same techno-organic virus as Cable. He was an immortal and conquering powerhouse who defeated Kang the Conqueror and many other worlds and he struck down the Eternal Saul. When he meet time-traveling Cable (known as "The Traveler" hehe) their blood was mixed and thus, he became like Cable' unable to fully access his powers. This would account for why his immortal body wears out and grows frail as seen in other timelines and The Twelve. But, even with his true range of abilities kept from him, he can do all this:

Powers and Abilities

Apocalypse is one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe. He can alter the atomic structure of his body at will in order to change his form, this ability also grants him any physical superhuman power, therefore making him extremely powerful. After exposure to the Celestial Ship, this ability along with all of Apocalypse's other powers, have been enhanced far beyond their original limits.

He can alter his appearance or the size of his body: he can transform his arms and fists into various melee weapons and grant himself near-limitless superhuman strength and grow to enormous sizes, shapeshift his appearance and form, give himself flight, and more. He also can generate energy due to a combination of his mutant power and Celestial technology in his body.

Apocalypse's powers seems to change according to the story's need and/or the creative team's desires. So far, he has demonstrated: telekinesis, telepathy, energy absorption, invulnerability, super speed, creation of force fields, concussive force burst projection of some unknown energy, and can augment himself further by drawing on various outside energy sources. Apocalypse also demonstrated the ability to teleport himself and other beings (it is unclear if he required amplifying technology to do some of these things).

Apocalypse's original body was immortal. Even before being modified by the Celestial ship, he lived for thousands of years and was highly resistant to injury. With the Celestial modifications, this resistance to harm was amplified, although it is still possible to cause him injury that would not be immediately regenerated by his power. Should he suffer massive injuries that prove potentially fatal, he can enter a coma-like state of suspended animation during which he may recover from his wounds with the assistance of his Celestial technology.

On top of these abilities, Apocalypse has used host bodies of robot-like forms to house his frail body, as demonstrated shortly before he merged with Cyclops: he was an old man inside a hollow shell. It is speculated that this occurred somewhere between his 'death' on the moon at the hands of the Dark Riders and his return shortly before the Twelve storyline.

In the future timeline from which Cable hails, Apocalypse's physical form was no longer able to contain his superhuman energies resulting in his original body burning out. Hence, he transferred his consciousness and powers into a succession of host bodies, abandoning each one when it too grew too old to contain his power. This alternate future version of Apocalypse was ultimately defeated in transit from a depreciated body into a potential host body.

One theory that has appeared amongst fans is that the techno-organic blood that runs through both the bodies of Apocalypse and Cable, both of which have the same source, actually reduced Cable's power and prevented him from reaching his full potential. Apocalypse's powers were still growing over the centuries, and their development stopped when he was infected by the very same virus that allowed him to make contact with and acquire the celestial technology. So if Apocalypse hadn't acquired the techno-organic virus one can only wonder how powerful he eventually would have become.

Aside from his superhuman powers, Apocalypse is also extraordinarily intelligent, a genius with knowledge of science and technology far beyond that of conventional science and technology. This was not merely a result of his exposure to alien technology, as he was able to make significant new advances beyond the alien materials to which he was exposed. In the X-Cutioner's Song saga (Part X), even Beast needed Apocalypse's peerless expertise in biology to aid Xavier.

If, in future, the techno-organic virus is removed from Apocalypse... It will be like God-like Cable x100. Cable was pretty much nothing before he got rid of it and Apocalypse is already somebody with it. He has 5 millennia of energy stored up that he can't fully tap.

[DDM]

What was the story with her? I know she pretty much wiped out the Externals and the writer used her to retcon Cannonball's whole immortal subplot - but what was she actually capable of. Part from not dying....



Selene's primary mutant power is to psionically drain the soul or lifeforce from her victimes which keeps her young & powerful; as a result, Selene is virtually immortal as long as she continues to consume lifeforce. Selene also has several mutant abilities as a by-product of draining the lifeforce from her victims:


Selene projects the stolen lifeforce into inanimate objects making them come to life or disintergrate into dust. Selene can control fire in the same way. (note: this is not true telekinesis)
Selene has some kind of psionic telepathic powers related to her lifeforce ability, but it is not true telepathy; as a result, she has powerful psionic defenses against true telepaths.
Selene causes automatic hypnosis in her victims.
Selene can run at tremendous speeds rivaling Quicksilver. She often combines the hypnosis & superhuman speed to give the illusion she teleports.
Selene is a powerful demon sorceress who is feared & respected by other magicians. She can counteract spells & summon demons. Selene's soreceress powers have yet to be fully catalogued.


Selene is a self-styled goddess she began in Nova Roma called the Cult of Fire. As the Black Priestess, she sacrificed innocent people so she could live; she would usually choose virgin girls, but she could really drain anyone's lifeforce. When Sunspot threw Selene in the molton lava, Selene realized she could leave Nova Roma as 2,000 years in exile. She went to New York City to continue to kill vicitms, usually men, to pick up the the bars. Selene contacted one of her Cult of Fire priests in New York City (apparently, Selene's religion spread throughout the world during her exile), Friedrich Von Rohm, a jeweler. He used his connections within the Hellfire Club to sponser Selene for the secret Inner Circle; after passing a few tests, Selene qualified to be a member. Selene quickly rose to the high rank of Black Queen placing a power struggle with the Inner Circle held by then Black King, Sebastian Shaw & White Queen, Emma Frost. Selene can die. However, it takes someone of equal power or more to actually kill her. Rachel Summers, as Phoenix, nearly succeeded in murdering Selene, but Wolverine stopped Phoenix before Rachel could kill Selene in Uncanny X-Men #207.

Selene transforms her Cult of Fire High Priests into bloodthirsty man-monsters similar to lycanthropy; she causes the transformation through a psionic link with her own mutant powers. Her High Priest has the power of a tracker, superhuman strength, speed, & agility. Selene says all her High Priests possesse a genetic trait which she controls. In this sense, the High Priest is a mutant, but only accessed through Selene's own power. The High Priest seems to give up a certain amount of will power when Selene enacts the transformation. Friedrich Von Rohm fought the X-Men & Nimrod; Nimrod killed Von Rohm when he attacked Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men #209.

Selene remains the Hellfire Club's Black Queen today, although both Shaw & Frost have been expelled from the Inner Circle for various reasons.

Selene has hinted that she is directly related to Amara Aquilla (Magma) & has said she personally killed Amara's mother.

first appearance & origin: The New Mutants #9-11

Other important appearances:


Uncanny X-Men #184 (Selene seeks to transform Rachel Summers into her "heir," a psychic vampire slave)
The New Mutants #22-23 (joins the Hellfire Club)
Uncanny X-Men #189 (applies to become the Hellfire Club's Black Queen, vs Rachel Summers & Magma)
Uncanny X-Men #207-209 (Phoenix nearly murders Selene in the heat of passion, vs X-Men, Nimrod, reveals Selene is the new Black Queen)
The New Mutants #53-54 (Selene reveals she is related to Amara)

[ProfeZZor X]

Okay, I'm going to throw my two cents in this and go with Iceman. Even though he's already been mentioned in this thread, he's also been classified in the "198 Files" as conceiveably being the most powerful mutant in existence.

Not only that, but he controls all aspects of moisture. Including the ocean, on down to bodily fluids. What good is a mutant or other super-being to stop him if their bodily fluids are drained before they can even reach him? Unless they're made of pure energy, there's not much they can do to stop him. Even Magma has a form of moisture in it.

[The Lucky One]

I mentioned him in the other thread too: Thanos. He's a mutant, just not a human mutant. And he tends to put everyone else to shame.

If you're counting non-human mutants, Warlock pwns all, or at least has the potential to. His father the Magus could rip stars in half with his bare hands and power hyperspace gates with ease, as well as increase his size to be as large as a freakin' galaxy.

-D

[Barnaby]

Mad Jim Jaspers, only because he's willing to use the full extend of his powers, unlike Franklin Richards.

This guy can do ANYTHING! In a multiuniversal scale, so this kinda says it all...:evilsmile

[The Anti-Existence]

So could Franklin. But Franklin has some semblance of a brain and sanity and a sane person with that level of power is more of a threat. I know insanity tends to make people a bit nervous - a crazy person with a gun and yadda yadda. Well, an assassin witht hat gun > the insane guy with the gun. Frankie ever gets pissed and emo and the multiverse is screwed. LT better get off his lazy butt.

But, as said, apart from the multiversal reality warpers who really have no equal, Apocalypse should be next if he can get the TO-Virus removed. As I see it, that's the natural direction for his story to go.

[The Lucky One]

So could Franklin. But Franklin has some semblance of a brain and sanity and a sane person with that level of power is more of a threat. I know insanity tends to make people a bit nervous - a crazy person with a gun and yadda yadda. Well, an assassin witht hat gun > the insane guy with the gun. Frankie ever gets pissed and emo and the multiverse is screwed. LT better get off his lazy butt.

If the sane person is completely amoral, maybe. But I'd argue that statement; in most cases, I think the insane person is far more dangerous, because there's no predicting their behavior. Certainly I'd far prefer Franklin getting angry to Mad Jim Jaspers.

But, as said, apart from the multiversal reality warpers who really have no equal, Apocalypse should be next if he can get the TO-Virus removed. As I see it, that's the natural direction for his story to go.

I honestly can't see where this "Apocalypse is insanely powerful" stuff comes from. Remove the t-o virus and the Celestial tech and he's... a guy who shapeshifts and lives forever. Nice. Meet my friend Morph.

-D

[Omega Alpha]

I honestly can't see where this "Apocalypse is insanely powerful" stuff comes from. Remove the t-o virus and the Celestial tech and he's... a guy who shapeshifts and lives forever. Nice. Meet my friend Morph.


Yeah, Mags could beat him like in AoA.

[MadroxTMMan]

I guess in all fairness if the Phoenix Force is non-mutant (an alien lifeform, wasn't it?), you can't count Jean/Phoenix/Dark Phoenix at all. In terms of epic power then, the Scarlet Witch has to be up there.

[The Anti-Existence]

I honestly can't see where this "Apocalypse is insanely powerful" stuff comes from. Remove the t-o virus and the Celestial tech and he's... a guy who shapeshifts and lives forever. Nice. Meet my friend Morph.

I've already listed every power he's displayed so I really don't need to even remark to this. No one is 100% certain what is exclusively his own power and what is a result of the merge with Celestial tech. And his powers were still developing when he was exposed to the virus. That was centuries worth of development. If he can continue gathering power for centuries and the techno-organic virus' limiting effects are removed, it is undeniable he will have a massive upswing in power.

Yeah, Mags could beat him like in AoA.

Actually, no, he couldn't. That was PIS. He could not do that in reality. Besides, Apocalypse wasn't even fighting. He underestimated Magneto. Darkseid underestimated Superman and look what happened. Apocalypse could tear Magneto apart in a real fight. Unless you are suggesting Magneto could trade blows with Namor under water, the High Evolutionary, a Prime Eternal....

[DDM]

In terms of epic power then, the Scarlet Witch has to be up there.

Only if she's miswritten by Brian Michael Bendis. The Scarlet Witch--when written in character--has the mutant ability to alter probability; this power is unpredictable, but nowhere the near the power levels as written in the poorly handled Avengers Disassembled & awful House of M. The Scaret Witch can make a house catch fire, but she can't turn the house into a swarm of bees.

[DDM]

I guess in all fairness if the Phoenix Force is non-mutant (an alien lifeform, wasn't it?), you can't count Jean/Phoenix/Dark Phoenix at all.

Phoenix/Dark Phoenix is a mutant. The Phoenix Force is the primal passion of the cosmos; it is a fundamental elemental cosmic force which is linked to the passion to create or destroy. Without the Phoenix, the multiverse would collapse. Jean Grey, as Phoenix, became one with this universal elemental force of primal passion.

[The Lucky One]

I've already listed every power he's displayed so I really don't need to even remark to this. No one is 100% certain what is exclusively his own power and what is a result of the merge with Celestial tech. And his powers were still developing when he was exposed to the virus. That was centuries worth of development. If he can continue gathering power for centuries and the techno-organic virus' limiting effects are removed, it is undeniable he will have a massive upswing in power.

Nobody who got pwned by the Dark Riders is all that. Sorry.

-D

[Slung]

Magneto and Prof. X are definately two of the most powerful, maybe Apocalypse, and i don't know much about Onslaught or X-Man

Now my problem with the Phoenix Force as a mutant is it's not a mutant, its a god...that is, IF yer talking about the Force itself, but f yer talking about Jean or Rachel, then yes, they are VERY powerful...with the Phoenix Force
Even without the Phoenix Force, Jean's telepathy rivals that of Xavier. Now throw in her telekinesis - which has been said to have infinite potential - the girl should be up there on the list. Now, include the fact that Jean's very DNA carries the ability to wield one of the most powerful forces in nature, she is one powerful babe. Since she is genetically (per Morrison in Here Comes Tomorrow) able to utilize the Phoenix force (like Magneto is genetically able to utilize Magnetism or Havok cosmic energy etc), this is part of her mutation and makes her very powerful.

[DDM]

Even without the Phoenix Force, Jean's telepathy rivals that of Xavier. Now throw in her telekinesis - which has been said to have infinite potential - the girl should be up there on the list. Now, include the fact that Jean's very DNA carries the ability to wield one of the most powerful forces in nature, she is one powerful babe. Since she is genetically (per Morrison in Here Comes Tomorrow) able to utilize the Phoenix force (like Magneto is genetically able to utilize Magnetism or Havok cosmic energy etc), this is part of her mutation and makes her very powerful.

Prior to Jean's transformation into Phoenix, Marvel Girl's telepathy is nowhere near the level of Charles Xavier's telepathy.

[The Anti-Existence]

Nobody who got pwned by the Dark Riders is all that. Sorry.

Nobody who can make things like War Hulk, contend with Prime Eternal Ikaris, the High Evolutionary and Loki aren't all that? News to me. Sorry, but he has some good showings too. His bad showings? Oh. hE WAS defeated when weakened and taken off-guard by Stryfe. He was beaten when his essence was stripped from Cyclpse and well, can't do much more then. And, so, sorry. He is pretty tough and he can be a serious threat if he used half of the powers afforded him. And even then, he still hasn't reached his full power given the techno-organic virus in him.

[Jackob]

Apocalypse gets most of his powers from tech and is physical guy other wise very powerful but not like cable who`s powers are mental and he had to divert his tk and telepethy to keep it from spreeding, whil apocolypse can alter his molecules to do it.

[The Anti-Existence]

Exactly. But they both have their powers and energies suppressed and kept from reaching what they could do without the virus. Apocalypse lived for centuries before he stumbled upon Cable and got the techno-organic virus. After this, he needed to switch host bodies and enter rejuvination chambers. It's my inclination he was fully immortal but given the fact the TO-virus is ravaging his body and keeping his building mutant energies pent up, it weakens and ages him. He can't be a true immortal or realize his full strength unless it is removed.

This is all a theory. But given that him and Cable both share the same exact virus and we know very well what it did to Cable, it's safe to say the theory isn't totally absurd. And I still believe he was a true immortal until he was exposed to the technology.

[Slung]

Prior to Jean's transformation into Phoenix, Marvel Girl's telepathy is nowhere near the level of Charles Xavier's telepathy.
Thats because of the psychic circuit breakers Xavier placed in her mind to keep her from being overcome by her near infinite psi powers. Regardless of what you believe about the retcon and Jean=Phoenix, Xavier stated that he put circuit breakers in her mind at a young age because of her overwhelmingly powerful psychic abilities. Xavier had no idea about Jean's ability to wield the Phoenix Force - but still was not surprised by the powers she displayed as Dark Phoenix - even knowing that Jean would eventually become more powerful than him.

And as I said, her telekinetic powers are limitless.

And her mutant ability to use the Phoenix force puts her right at the top of the list of powerhouses.

Of course, all of this (par usual with Jean) could change at the drop of a writer's hat.

[Haunt]

Actually, no, he couldn't. That was PIS. He could not do that in reality.

but he did

Besides, Apocalypse wasn't even fighting.

sure he was. he was throwing Magneto all over the place before he got ripped apart. and this was after his son Holocaust beat the guy near to death.

He underestimated Magneto.

Drago underestimated Rocky. still got his @$$ handed to him.

Darkseid underestimated Superman and look what happened. Apocalypse could tear Magneto apart in a real fight.

but he didn't.

Unless you are suggesting Magneto could trade blows with Namor under water, the High Evolutionary, a Prime Eternal....

i don't know about the last two but definately the first. he's taken a punch to the face from Colossus. he can increase his own strength to class 100 with his powers.

[jmc247]

Apocalypse could tear Magneto apart in a real fight. Unless you are suggesting Magneto could trade blows with Namor under water, the High Evolutionary, a Prime Eternal....

First off Apocalypse is not a top level mutant without his advansed alien technology.

Take away Apocalypse's technology and Wolverine could kick his ass.

[Omega Alpha]

First off Apocalypse is not a top level mutant without his advansed alien technology.

Take away Apocalypse's technology and Wolverine could kick his ass.

No, Wolverine could job his ass. Let's not overreact, people:)

[The Anti-Existence]

First off Apocalypse is not a top level mutant without his advansed alien technology.

Take away Apocalypse's technology and Wolverine could kick his ass.

I already addressed this. People here use everything and anything to degrade him. Why don't you take away the adamantium in Wolverine and see if he could fight pre-tech Apocalypse? And AGAIN, no one, that means you, knows what are solely his own powers and what are a result of his merging with the Celestial technology. You can't say "he could only do this with the tech!" Because we were never told nor shown any such thing. The only statement that has any weight is this from his Marvel Database entry.

"It's questionable which abilites Apocalypse has shown over the years are actually his mutant abilites or the celestial technology implanted in his body. What is known is that the healing ability (immortality), superhuman strength, mass shifting, and power to transform Ozymandias are something he originally possessed, before coming across the time-traveller technology or the celestial tech. "

i don't know about the last two but definately the first. he's taken a punch to the face from Colossus. he can increase his own strength to class 100 with his powers.

I wouldn't give him good odds given that Apocalypse alone can increase his strength above Class 100 and the H.E. and Ikaris are two of the strongest entities on Earth.

[DDM]

Thats because of the psychic circuit breakers Xavier placed in her mind to keep her from being overcome by her near infinite psi powers. Regardless of what you believe about the retcon and Jean=Phoenix, Xavier stated that he put circuit breakers in her mind at a young age because of her overwhelmingly powerful psychic abilities. Xavier had no idea about Jean's ability to wield the Phoenix Force - but still was not surprised by the powers she displayed as Dark Phoenix - even knowing that Jean would eventually become more powerful than him.

And as I said, her telekinetic powers are limitless.

And her mutant ability to use the Phoenix force puts her right at the top of the list of powerhouses.

Of course, all of this (par usual with Jean) could change at the drop of a writer's hat.


Jean Grey, as Marvel Girl, in X-Men #56-66 displays telepathy & telekinesis. Her telepathy was revealed in the latter issues of the original X-Men book to take the place of Xavier; however, she is inexperienced & unsure of herself. Marvel Girl also fatigues easily in battle. Chris Claremont later explained Jean's telepathy in Bizarre Adventures #27 that Xavier had placed psionic circuit breakers within Jean's mind to block her telepathy while he trained her in the use of her telekinetic powers. After Xavier recruited the new X-Men from Giant Size X-Men #1 & Uncanny X-Men #94-100, Jean's powers are a little more powerful than previously because she is older & more sure of herself; however, her powers are not omnipotent at this point.

Jean's powers are not limitless until she becomes Phoenix from Uncanny X-Men #101-137. The same backstory with Xavier placing psionic circuit breakers within Jean's mind is the catalyst for her to becoming corrupted by her cosmic powers thanks to Mastermind & the Hellfire Club's plot to darken Phoenix into the Black Queen.

Even after the Phoenix retcon in Fantastic Four #286, Marvel Girl--in X-Factor #1-70, is still quite human with limits. Marvel Girl's telekinesis has a vague limit & her telekinesis is far more powerful than before, yet she shows fatigue in X-Factor #17 & X-Factor #26. Phoenix would not have any real fatigue because she is more than human.

[Godlike]

The most powerful living mutants are:

Phoenix (Jean Grey), Professor X, Magneto, Mr. Sinister, Apocalypse, Franklin Richards, Polaris and Cable. You might add Vulcan to that list pending more revelations about him to come.

Anybody who would argue the inclusion of Lorna Dane is plain wrong: remember what Zaladane did when she took her power? Or maybe the time she hurled Krakoa into space? Also, since her powers were restored by Apocalypse recently, she has even more capabilities than she had before...

Most powerful dead mutants would include Nate Grey (X-Man), Stryfe (the Cable clone), and maybe Fabian Cortez (the Acolyte).

[The Anti-Existence]

Well, first, I don't think Siniste really is a mutant. He's just a mutated human. He's scientific. Honestly, Apocalypse has made some impressive reations: Exodus, War Hulk and Sinister...

[widdershins]

Jean Grey, as Marvel Girl, in X-Men #56-66 displays telepathy & telekinesis. Her telepathy was revealed in the latter issues of the original X-Men book to take the place of Xavier; however, she is inexperienced & unsure of herself. Marvel Girl also fatigues easily in battle. Chris Claremont later explained Jean's telepathy in Bizarre Adventures #27 that Xavier had placed psionic circuit breakers within Jean's mind to block her telepathy while he trained her in the use of her telekinetic powers. After Xavier recruited the new X-Men from Giant Size X-Men #1 & Uncanny X-Men #94-100, Jean's powers are a little more powerful than previously because she is older & more sure of herself; however, her powers are not omnipotent at this point.

Jean's powers are not limitless until she becomes Phoenix from Uncanny X-Men #101-137. The same backstory with Xavier placing psionic circuit breakers within Jean's mind is the catalyst for her to becoming corrupted by her cosmic powers thanks to Mastermind & the Hellfire Club's plot to darken Phoenix into the Black Queen.

Even after the Phoenix retcon in Fantastic Four #286, Marvel Girl--in X-Factor #1-70, is still quite human with limits. Marvel Girl's telekinesis has a vague limit & her telekinesis is far more powerful than before, yet she shows fatigue in X-Factor #17 & X-Factor #26. Phoenix would not have any real fatigue because she is more than human.

Nevertheless,Xavier's notes in X-men Forever clearly establish that he knew early on that her potential was unlimited.While a precise comparison is not made,Xavier remarks that only by looking at Jean and Bobby,whose powers have unlimited potential for growth,he understood for the first time the fear of mutants that humans have.

And even in the original DP saga,when Xavier learns that Jean saved the Universe inside the M'Kraan Crystal,he thinks to himself that he always knew that she had that kind of power,only he never thought she would have realized it in her life.

So while her powers may appear to be limited at any given moment in her live(s),as an omega level mutant she has always the potential to trascend those limitations.Xavier does not.

[dellicious]

storm
iceman
phoenix/jean
franklin richards
jim jaspers
magneto

no particular order

[Slung]

Jean Grey, as Marvel Girl, in X-Men #56-66 displays telepathy & telekinesis. Her telepathy was revealed in the latter issues of the original X-Men book to take the place of Xavier; however, she is inexperienced & unsure of herself. Marvel Girl also fatigues easily in battle. Chris Claremont later explained Jean's telepathy in Bizarre Adventures #27 that Xavier had placed psionic circuit breakers within Jean's mind to block her telepathy while he trained her in the use of her telekinetic powers. After Xavier recruited the new X-Men from Giant Size X-Men #1 & Uncanny X-Men #94-100, Jean's powers are a little more powerful than previously because she is older & more sure of herself; however, her powers are not omnipotent at this point.

Well, in #94-100, the power blocks were still in her mind - they were not blown out until after the Phoenix Force creates a new body for her. Obviously, Xavier did not know about the Phoenix Force but he did know about Jean's potential prior to the Phoenix Force and he put those blocks in her mind because of that potential.

Jean's powers are not limitless until she becomes Phoenix from Uncanny X-Men #101-137. The same backstory with Xavier placing psionic circuit breakers within Jean's mind is the catalyst for her to becoming corrupted by her cosmic powers thanks to Mastermind & the Hellfire Club's plot to darken Phoenix into the Black Queen.
Well, of course her powers heighten after the blocks are destroyed - and she is still limited as the Phoenix (as seen when fighting Magneto, Proteus, and even as the Dark Phoenix when she has to consume a star to keep going). I'm not quite sure what we are arguing about. Yes, she was limited until she came in contact with the Phoenix Force - but that was because the Phoenix Force blew apart the psychic blocks on her powers.

Even after the Phoenix retcon in Fantastic Four #286, Marvel Girl--in X-Factor #1-70, is still quite human with limits. Marvel Girl's telekinesis has a vague limit & her telekinesis is far more powerful than before, yet she shows fatigue in X-Factor #17 & X-Factor #26. Phoenix would not have any real fatigue because she is more than human.
Yes, she does show fatigue - she still has some of the blocks from Xavier (this original body would still have the mental blocks upon it). And Phoenix (the force) does not have real fatigue, but Jean as Phoenix does (as I pointed out early). That said, she is still one of the most powerful of all the mutants. And her ability to genetically wield the Phoenix Force certainly adds to her power.

[Novaya Havoc]

Dazzler is one of the most powerful mutants.

</comment>

[We R. Venom]

Im just wondering exactly hwo strong Jamie Maddrox aka Multiple man is. I have heard many different examples but I have never really seen the character THAT much so i was wondering if anyone has any scans showing his abilites.:D

[Mariah]

Im just wondering exactly hwo strong Jamie Maddrox aka Multiple man is. I have heard many different examples but I have never really seen the character THAT much so i was wondering if anyone has any scans showing his abilites.:D
Not much too him. He gets any kind of kinetic "push" (for lack of a better word) and creates a duplicate of himself.

[We R. Venom]

Thanks for the help. I'm sure I will find some pics or scans or whathave you. At any rate ill end up buying the damn comic. X-fator. I will have extra money to spend after civil war is over.

[The Lucky One]

Im just wondering exactly hwo strong Jamie Maddrox aka Multiple man is. I have heard many different examples but I have never really seen the character THAT much so i was wondering if anyone has any scans showing his abilites.:D

Depends on your definition of "strength." Physically, he's about as strong and durable as your average guy in his 20s who stays fit. (Probably a little more agile, since one of his dupes trained with the Olympic gymnastics team.) Madrox's true strength lies in his mind, and his ability to live many lives at once. Every time he reabsorbs a dupe he gains their knowledge, so he's got an incredibly varied (and eclectic) set of skills to draw on, everything from anatomy to lockpicking to Shaolin training. With that working for him, his potential is limitless; he's been shown with a dupe in S.H.I.E.L.D., and I'm surprised he hasn't had one training with Dr. Strange.

Of course, if you do just mean physically, he's still got the advantage of duplicating at all physical contact, which means he's almost unbeatable in a straight, no bullets fight. When Madrox was possessed by the Shadow King, he took out Gambit pretty handily.

Oh, and in the possible future of Earth X, he had to eat human flesh and inherited the curse of the Wendigo... which meant there were dozens of crazy-big, Hulk-strong monsters wandering around Canada. Not good.

-D

[steve2275]

Except when Colossus got heated white hot by Pyro and then doused with liquid nitrogen.
Oh, and then he got hit with an acid pellet by Deathbird and then speared through the same wound.
And then when X-Cutioner beat on him with a Z'nox light saber.
over twenty years ago
longerer ago than that (yet he is still vulnerable to that stuff)
it was more of a mental wound

[z1b]

I dont know why anyone is considering any mutant outside Omega Level. If they arent Omega I dont think they belong in this thread. That being said, Vulcan, Mr Immortal, Iceman, Jean Grey, Kid Omega, franklin richards, Mister M, and Rachael Summers should be considered the most powerful mutants since they are the only Omega Levels around at the moment.

[Jackob]

I dont know why anyone is considering any mutant outside Omega Level. If they arent Omega I dont think they belong in this thread. That being said, Vulcan, Mr Immortal, Iceman, Jean Grey, Kid Omega, franklin richards, Mister M, and Rachael Summers should be considered the most powerful mutants since they are the only Omega Levels around at the moment.

omega is an ambigus term because if Mr Imortal is omega just because he cant die than that is not more powerful than prof. X
omega just means imortal or can cantrol subatomic molecules.

[We R. Venom]

Depends on your definition of "strength." Physically, he's about as strong and durable as your average guy in his 20s who stays fit. (Probably a little more agile, since one of his dupes trained with the Olympic gymnastics team.) Madrox's true strength lies in his mind, and his ability to live many lives at once. Every time he reabsorbs a dupe he gains their knowledge, so he's got an incredibly varied (and eclectic) set of skills to draw on, everything from anatomy to lockpicking to Shaolin training. With that working for him, his potential is limitless; he's been shown with a dupe in S.H.I.E.L.D., and I'm surprised he hasn't had one training with Dr. Strange.

Of course, if you do just mean physically, he's still got the advantage of duplicating at all physical contact, which means he's almost unbeatable in a straight, no bullets fight. When Madrox was possessed by the Shadow King, he took out Gambit pretty handily.

Oh, and in the possible future of Earth X, he had to eat human flesh and inherited the curse of the Wendigo... which meant there were dozens of crazy-big, Hulk-strong monsters wandering around Canada. Not good.

-D

Wow, im freakin impressed with mr. Maddrox. Thanks for the info.

[aaronx]

Has Gambit's alternative version New Sun been discussed?

[Greg]

Surely Scarlet Witch is? She depowered 90% of mutants and changed the face of reality completely.

[We R. Venom]

Yeah I would consider her one of the most powerful.Cant wait to see her again too.

[The Lucky One]

Surely Scarlet Witch is? She depowered 90% of mutants and changed the face of reality completely.

Yeah... she's probably pretty close to the level of Franklin Richards and Mad Jim Jaspers.

-D

[Kevin Vetter]

Well, first, I don't think Siniste really is a mutant. He's just a mutated human. He's scientific. Honestly, Apocalypse has made some impressive reations: Exodus, War Hulk and Sinister...


Exodus isn't one of apocalypses creations. He's a mutant that had help from apocalypse in activating his power. Apocalypse put exodus in a situation where he would die unless his powers manifested and thats it. He didn't augment his powers like he does to horsemen or give a normal human power like with sinister. I think sinister has gained more from experiments he did on himself than from what apocalypse originally did to him.

[The Fury]

Mad Jim Jaspers.

-D
I live reality manipulators.

Why none of them don't ever turn their enemies into a duck I dunno.

[Polaris27]

I live reality manipulators.

Why none of them don't ever turn their enemies into a duck I dunno.

I don't know, didn't Mad Jim Jaspers do some tricks close to that in Excalibur?

[The Anti-Existence]

Exodus isn't one of apocalypses creations. He's a mutant that had help from apocalypse in activating his power. Apocalypse put exodus in a situation where he would die unless his powers manifested and thats it. He didn't augment his powers like he does to horsemen or give a normal human power like with sinister. I think sinister has gained more from experiments he did on himself than from what apocalypse originally did to him.

He awoke his powers. Thus, he is more Apocaly'se creation than anything else. If he had never realized them on his own and became Exodus, then Apocalypse did create him. And I don't think you know if Sinister has made himself stronger than how Apocalyse initially made him initially.

[The Anti-Existence]

I dont know why anyone is considering any mutant outside Omega Level. If they arent Omega I dont think they belong in this thread. That being said, Vulcan, Mr Immortal, Iceman, Jean Grey, Kid Omega, franklin richards, Mister M, and Rachael Summers should be considered the most powerful mutants since they are the only Omega Levels around at the moment.

Because Omega only relates to potential. iceman is not taking on and defeating Apocalypse, Exodus, Professor X, Magneto or anyone on their level. Franklin is the only one who, at this moment, is still extremely powerful and his potential needs to be taken into account. Rachel and Jean also do not possess the level of power they did with the Phoenix Force. Vulcan...I'm still thinking about.

[Kevin Vetter]

It's not like apocalypse just showed up wherever exodus was and offered to help him like he does with people he augments or gives power to. Exodus knew he had power within him and went looking for the place apocalypse had as a base at the time because of legends saying it was a place of power. He was trying to find a way to activate his powers and apocalypse dropped a big rock on him and his powers manifested for the first time and prevented him from being crushed. That isn't exactly apocalypse putting forth any real effort to empower exodus.

We do know that sinister has given himself power that apocalypse didn't. From what we know apocalypse made him immortal and thats about it. I would think he probally made him physically stronger to and I doubt he would have given sinister the limited psi powers that he shows once ina while and we know that sinisters shapeshifting came from something that he did to himself.

[The Anti-Existence]

Fair points. But I want to make a small note. People LOVE to bing up how he was so easily dispatched in House of M. That Apocalypse wasn't even close to the 616 Apocalypse. The clearest reason being his strength is only listed as CLASS 20 in there while all sources state he has Class 100 and above in the 616. Stupid Wanda.

[The Fury]

I don't know, didn't Mad Jim Jaspers do some tricks close to that in Excalibur?
He was never in Excalibur. Jamie Braddock, on the other hand, was but he's not truely evil.

Jaspers was in the Alan Moore Cap B stuff and even Apocalyse is nothing compared to him. He did turn a character known as Vixen into a pink fox.

On the note of Apolcaypse. TAS Apolcaypse wsa the best one yet. He kill all the X-men in a fit of rage (grew 100 feet tall and just blasted them all).

[Mikl C]

on a side note: if synch had been standing beside an omega class energy wielder, do you think he would be as powerful as them?

[We Are Black Air]

Jamie Braddock or Mad Jim Jaspers dwarf half the people on this list.

[The Anti-Existence]

Jaspers was in the Alan Moore Cap B stuff and even Apocalyse is nothing compared to him. He did turn a character known as Vixen into a pink fox.

On the note of Apolcaypse. TAS Apolcaypse wsa the best one yet. He kill all the X-men in a fit of rage (grew 100 feet tall and just blasted them all).

Well, that's obvious. Top-level reality warpers like himself and Franklin can never really have an equal in power. However, if Apocalypse's much-needed poer boost is forthcoming as it should be, he'll top the list of Most Powerful Mutants WHo Can't ThinK Something And Make It True.

And, I was just watching that episode! He was a huge badass in it. I love him in all incarnations but the cartoon has mainly the dialogue and superb voice to bring Apocalypse to life. No survival of the fittest. Just "I bring the purity of oblition to your world." But, really, everyone was way cool in the show. Even Cable in his weak form could manage to hold his own against the X-Men due to technology. And he also had a great voice and look.

[The Fury]

And, I was just watching that episode! He was a huge badass in it. I love him in all incarnations but the cartoon has mainly the dialogue and superb voice to bring Apocalypse to life. No survival of the fittest. Just "I bring the purity of oblition to your world." But, really, everyone was way cool in the show. Even Cable in his weak form could manage to hold his own against the X-Men due to technology. And he also had a great voice and look.
This is the best quote by Apocalypse in the show in the episode where he took the time drive thing from Cable, Cable said that he was evil. Apocalypse replied:

"I am not malevolent. I simply am!"

Of course in the voice that Apocalypse had in that show it just ruled.

EDIT: Just chefcked out Tv.com for mroe quotes. man, they were classic.

[The Anti-Existence]

That quote too was one of my favorites. Pretty much everything he said rocked. Beyond Good and Evil, the series where he plans to use immense psychic energies to disuprt the laws of nature and make it so he can triumph once and for all, was seriously an amazing idea. A lot better than The Twelve, sadly. The Twelve had such potential...like everything associated with Apocalypse.

[Omega Alpha]

Fair points. But I want to make a small note. People LOVE to bing up how he was so easily dispatched in House of M. That Apocalypse wasn't even close to the 616 Apocalypse. The clearest reason being his strength is only listed as CLASS 20 in there while all sources state he has Class 100 and above in the 616. Stupid Wanda.

616 Apocalypse still is taken down by a Black Bolt scream, although to do what he did, i think that BB would need to speak up way more.

[The Anti-Existence]

I still don't find that terribly degrading. Not many characters could survive a full scream from Black Bolt. I figured out about that whole scream-issue BB did to him before. it was some other type of scream. Purely sonic, someone said because if he had used even a whisper, it would have killed Cyclopse and baby Nate and everyone which, obviously, he did not want to do.

[Mikl C]

This is the best quote by Apocalypse in the show in the episode where he took the time drive thing from Cable, Cable said that he was evil. Apocalypse replied:

"I am not malevolent. I simply am!"

Of course in the voice that Apocalypse had in that show it just ruled.

EDIT: Just chefcked out Tv.com for mroe quotes. man, they were classic.

"I am as faaaar biyond myewtants as they are beyond huumans!"

I love the ep where Archangel and Rogue take him on, and he bwahahahs at them.

[The Fury]

"I am as faaaar biyond myewtants as they are beyond huumans!"

I love the ep where Archangel and Rogue take him on, and he bwahahahs at them.
We should make a Shrine (thread) to him. :D

[generic13]

Firstly my apologies for unearthing a thread from nearly 3 years ago on your forum, but this was ironically the thread that brought me to the forum and encouraged me to sign up so i thought i would say this is something i would love to know what the general concensus was on this subject.

Putting aside who has died and who has had powers removed/changed, In their peak of their powers within the Marvel universe (not counting potential, just where they were at when they were at the peak of their powers at the time) who would come out on top in an all out battle royale?

I wanted to ask those who are far superior in their knowledge than i am on this topic too, but would mimic with his unique ability to take on the power of to the equivalent expertise as his opponent be in any way able considered a possibility for the most powerful? could he potentially be able to take on the power of several omega level mutants if they were in range and actually be in control or would he be unable to actually cope with such levels of power?

I thankyou all for a great thread. it was a fascinating read.

[wonderland]

The reality warpers would probably come out on top, i doubt mimic would be able to control that level of power...Has there ever been a fight between reality warpers, i'd kinda like to see Wanda (HOM level) vs Jaspers.

[ZNOP]

I wanted to ask those who are far superior in their knowledge than i am on this topic too, but would mimic with his unique ability to take on the power of to the equivalent expertise as his opponent be in any way able considered a possibility for the most powerful? could he potentially be able to take on the power of several omega level mutants if they were in range and actually be in control or would he be unable to actually cope with such levels of power?

I thankyou all for a great thread. it was a fascinating read.

IIRC, Calvin Rankin aka "Mimic" had one limitation I know of... The only time I saw him unable to actually cope -- was when he fought Super-Adaptoid and, their powers canceled each other out.

[generic13]

I notice the 2 names that most are offering up as the ultimate in mutant assention are Jamie Braddock and Mad Jim Jaspers.

Now both these people to my understanding are insane. So is this the ultimate test in their absolute power, such as it is with ultimate genius or corrupting human power, that you must be completely mental to weild such power.

Another example, my pologies if they have been thrown up before, but Legion, the ultimate in psionic abilities, had multiple personality disorder just to cope with such abilities.

You could even argue Apocolypse is off his rocker.

A new character that came from the ultimate series had the potential to be the greatest too, Magician, but he was handicapped by the fact he didn't actually fully control his power, but instead had it tapped into his unconscious and would panda to his specific desires.

I think this is such a great question. Initially i was irritated by not finding one definitive answer, but i have since enjoyed the debate as there are so many factors to consider. Reality altering powers tned to be the ultimate in ability, and if they carry the psionic ability with it then that just added to their boast for greatness.

Thats why i posed the question in a new thread (first one i started on here) as to the yin and yang of the mutant species, because in most cases a mutant has an opposite out there who can match if not defeat them. Is there one that is unequalled?


Going back to Mimic, i still will stake a claim for him to be the most powerful. Depending on the version his range can be up to a mile around, he can take both mutant and non mutant abilities (such as fighting techniques), can read the mind of the person to be able to use such abilities to equivalent expertise as the person they mimicking and even has permanently aqcuired abilities from Angel, The Beast, Cyclops, Iceman and Marvel Girl, as well as partly retaining professor X's telepathic abilities.

I think the only thing that could let him down is whether he is capable of such high levels of power mimicking on a multiple scale, or whether he would be overloaded.

With regards to ultimate X Men, didn't apocolypse have the ability to 'steal' anyones ability? So not only would he be equal to anyone he encountered but would actually stack the deck in his favour by removing his opponents power and making it his own (Arthur Petrelli style!). He was able to control his entire composition on a molecular level, thus being able to change size, shape and evenreshape body parts into ANYTHING he wished (jet packs, guns, tools... you get the idea) And was able to travel through time and space with relative ease...
I think under these conditions,m all he needs is an encounter with any ONE of the relaity altering mutants and he becomes the unstoppable mutant this debate is ultimately searching for.

OK, a lot of comments there, i won't take it any further at this point!

[protogarrett]

Exodus took out the X-Men and the Avengers...

But really, any Omega Level - Jaime Braddock, Scarlet Witch, Sue Storm's kid, etc. Phoenix could decimate whole galaxies and rearrange matter.

[mimic_616]

Wait a minute, Mimic should be in this list surely? :confused:

[ProfeZZor X]

Rogue could be if she absorbed enough powers perminantly

I would NOT qualify Rogue as being powerful if she has to leech on to someone in order to be powerful.

...She doesn't have the power to begin with, so why even mention her?

[Nathan]

Gambit at full power is epic the fact the universe is around is simply because he allows it to be, at New Sun lvl he could destroy it all infact New Suns whole goal was to protect the multi verse from Gambit

[AcesX1X]

Gambit at full power is epic the fact the universe is around is simply because he allows it to be, at New Sun lvl he could destroy it all infact New Suns whole goal was to protect the multi verse from Gambit

this sounds like fanfiction.

[colossalreign]

I want to say Apocalypse, but i have a problem with him having to lay down and take a 50 year nap every so often just to get himself at full strength.

[Dave13]

this sounds like fanfiction.

Badly writen canon actually