Sick Hate Crime

[EmeraldCity]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20726968/?GT1=10357


CHARLESTON, W.Va. - Authorities said Tuesday they are considering hate crime charges in the case of a woman who was tortured while being held captive for at least a week, and they are investigating the possibility that she was lured by a man she met on the Internet.

The victim was repeatedly called a racial slur while her captors sexually abused, beat and stabbed her, her mother said.

Six people, all white, including a mother and son and a mother and daughter, were arrested in connection with the alleged abduction of the 20-year-old black woman.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070911/ap_on_re_us/woman_tortured;_ylt=Ahw71rOJsxzq9u0D7e9lUuBG2ocA

Besides being sexually assaulted, the woman was stabbed four times in the left leg and beaten, Porter said. Her eyes were black and blue. The wounds were inflicted at least a week ago, deputies said.

The woman was forced to eat rat and dog feces and drink from a toilet, according to the criminal complaint filed in magistrate court. She also had been choked with a cord, it alleges.

One of those arrested, Karen Burton, is accused of cutting the woman's ankle with a knife. She used the N-word in telling the woman she was victimized because she is black, according to the criminal complaint.

The six suspects were arrested


ugh.. this is just plain foul. To happen to any person for reason.. but to add insult to it all.. just for the simple reason that she is black.. :mad:

[Charles RB]

including a mother and son and a mother and daughter

And that's the part that really throws me - a group of individual fucks, that's one thing, but a family group? Meaning two of them were actively raised to be like this? Christ.

[Matt Algren]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20726968/?GT1=10357






http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070911/ap_on_re_us/woman_tortured;_ylt=Ahw71rOJsxzq9u0D7e9lUuBG2ocA



ugh.. this is just plain foul. To happen to any person for reason.. but to add insult to it all.. just for the simple reason that she is black.. :mad:
It seems like shocking crimes that you just can't believe have increased at a near exponential rate since you joined CBR.

[EmeraldCity]

It seems like shocking crimes that you just can't believe have increased at a near exponential rate since you joined CBR.

made a thread about a bomb too!

[rick]

It never ceases to amaze me just how horrible the human race is capable of being.

[Matt Algren]

made a thread about a bomb too!
http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/original/shock.jpg

[JeffreyWKramer]

And that's the part that really throws me - a group of individual fucks, that's one thing, but a family group? Meaning two of them were actively raised to be like this? Christ.

Lots of people that believe backwards, stupid and evil stuff do so in part because of upbringing.

That said, this batch pretty much takes the cake for scumbags.

[Dom]

It seems like shocking crimes that you just can't believe have increased at a near exponential rate since you joined CBR.

That is a statistical anomaly.

[Jack Zodiac]

Lots of people that believe backwards, stupid and evil stuff do so in part because of upbringing.

That said, this batch pretty much takes the cake for scumbags.

This and the Jena, Louisiana case.

How many generations before we breed out all these ignorant fucks? Or are we holding out hope for an ELE?

[EmeraldCity]

This and the Jena, Louisiana case.

How many generations before we breed out all these ignorant fucks? Or are we holding out hope for an ELE?

Well it seems they keep on breeding new ones..

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.02.ap.jpg

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.03.ap.jpg

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.04.ap.jpg

you can almost hear the Cletus Del Roy Spuckler theme song playing..

I hope for their crimes they get the book thrown at them..

[Jack Zodiac]

For all the charges I see in that report, there's no "attempted murder." I think that once you kidnap and abuse somebody, attempted murder should be a given, because aside from the outside chance of your victim escaping, there's no fucking way you're letting them go when they know what you look like. That alone should get them all hefty sentences, but if it takes a hate crime charge to get them all life, that'd be great.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

This and the Jena, Louisiana case.

How many generations before we breed out all these ignorant fucks? Or are we holding out hope for an ELE?

That's the problem though - idiots, ignorant fucks and other assorted scum bags breed like rabbits.
It's all they know how to do - contraceptions just either too tricky or evil for them.
(I mean, at this point I would get up and call for IQ tests before breeding, or selected breeding programs, but quite frankly, I'd have to follow it up with blaming a certain group of people for all our problems etc, and the next thing you know, comparing something to me would mean you instantly lose the debate... well, even more than you already do).

[Sean Whitmore]

Well it seems they keep on breeding new ones..

you can almost hear the Cletus Del Roy Spuckler theme song playing..

The one bit of good news in this thread...they all look EXACTLY like you'd expect psychotic criminal hicks to look. I can continue to judge books by their covers sans remorse.


SEAN

[Mike Pothier]

Well it seems they keep on breeding new ones..

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.02.ap.jpg

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.03.ap.jpg

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.04.ap.jpg

you can almost hear the Cletus Del Roy Spuckler theme song playing..

I hope for their crimes they get the book thrown at them..

Ohhh, we got a bunch of winners here. Ayup, Ah do say, we gots ourselves a real bunch of winners.

...or is that weeners?

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Ohhh, we got a bunch of winners here. Ayup, Ah do say, we gots ourselves a real bunch of winners.

...or is that weeners?

You say that, but they were all voted 'most likely to succeed' in their school year books.

[Sean Whitmore]

You say that, but they were all voted 'most likely to succeed' in their school year books.

I thought you had to attend school to get into those books?

Bonus alternate joke:

By the standards of whatever school they went to, they probably did succeed.


SEAN

[Jack Zodiac]

"Most likely to receive a life sentence in prison."

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Actually, I kinda like that they are such hicks - there won't be any blaming of 'dangerous literature' or violent foreign films here.
Hell, do they look like they could even handle the net?
What the hell are Fox and friends going to blame for this one?
"Well, Alan, just face up to the facts - these people had segregation forced upon, before they were ready, just like that - and you dare to be shocked that that this happened? Sure, they might not have been alive before segregation, but the people who raised, the people who raised them sure were, and tradition is valued very strongly down there, it's their way.
I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, I'm just saying it's hardly surprising, all things considered - and I don't think some damn law that the Clinton administration brought in has anything to do with the matter!"

[EmeraldCity]

Fox will blame illegals

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Fox will blame illegals

illegals???

[EmeraldCity]

illegals???

sorry I took Fox for Fox News :p

[Generic Eric]

Fox will blame illegals

Is there a reason your posting all this aweful bile and drama. Did you have a bad day today?

[EmeraldCity]

Is there a reason your posting all this aweful bile and drama. Did you have a bad day today?


just news. I didn't make up. Actually my day's been wonderful, thanks for asking.

[Deathstroke]

Just awful story.

The people sound like the lowest form of human fucking life.

[CoffeeStained]

I know a racist who often mutters that black people (usually just cab drivers who do not get out of his way) should go back to Africa. The irony of a Dutch man telling blacks to go back to Africa...

[Jack Zodiac]

The irony of any American besides a Native American telling anyone they should go back to whatever country their ancestors inhabited.

[Sean Whitmore]

The irony of any American besides a Native American telling anyone they should go back to whatever country their ancestors inhabited.

Hell, the Indians originally came here from Asia. Everyone is from somewhere else.


SEAN

[Jack Zodiac]

If you wanna' get fuckin' crazy, we should all go back to Africa.

[Sean Whitmore]

If you wanna' get fuckin' crazy, we should all go back to Africa.

I wish everyone BUT me would go back to Africa.

Then the streets wouldn't be so fucking congested and I might actually get to work on time.


SEAN

[mattx110]

The one bit of good news in this thread...they all look EXACTLY like you'd expect psychotic criminal hicks to look. I can continue to judge books by their covers sans remorse.


SEAN

i dunno. i think it might be the lighting and the psychoticness that makes them look extra creepy. if i saw one of them on the street under normal circumstances i wouldn't be alarmed.

slight tangential concern. in the process of rewatching "blackpool", and i'm having trouble not "hearing" my posts in a scottish accent while typing. my college essays have been getting weirder and prouder of late. i don't think i can turn it off.

[mattx110]

oh, and i've considered going back to my roots in europe. sort of a pogrom, assimilation, expulsion tour from east to west.

[Jack Zodiac]

They don't want you. If I "went back to Ireland," they'd tell me to "get th' fuck out o' 'ere!" Europe wanted us out. The American Revolution was just a really elaborate way of them making it look like they gave a shit.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

i dunno. i think it might be the lighting and the psychoticness that makes them look extra creepy. if i saw one of them on the street under normal circumstances i wouldn't be alarmed.


See, that's why the rest of the world looks down on America.

We would cross the street if we saw someone who looked that much like a hick.
Hicks - We may have them, but we try to avoid them.

[Sean Whitmore]

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.02.ap.jpg

1. Is probably waaaaaaaay to happy about being white.
2. Sleepy-looking bitches are bad news.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.03.ap.jpg

3. She looks like Stephen King in a wig, for fuck's sake.
4. This guy is staring at the cameraman and can't decide if he wants to fuck him or eat him, or both, but maybe not in that order.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/09/11/woman.tortured/art.torture.suspects.04.ap.jpg

5. Knows how many tiles are on the ceiling of the police station by heart.
6. Her first word began with an N, trust me.


SEAN

[Spike-X]

Authorities said Tuesday they are considering hate crime charges in the case of a woman who was...sexually abused, beat(en) and stabbed...

Are the penalties for these offences not harsh enough that they have to throw in something extra on top?

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation. It smacks of "thought crime" a little too much for my liking. If it's illegal to assault somebody, it should be illegal whether they're black, white, gay or straight.

Hate crime legislation also plays into the hands of the redneck fuckwits who like to complain about anybody but them being given "special treatment", and use that as an excuse to argue against any kind of equal rights.

Don't get me wrong, I think these inbred, halfwit, hateful pieces of shit should be locked up for life, but I'd think the same if they'd done the same thing to a white woman.

I'm also prepared to listen to reasonable arguments made against my point of view described above.

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation. It smacks of "thought crime" a little too much for my liking. If it's illegal to assault somebody, it should be illegal whether they're black, white, gay or straight.

I've got no problem with prosecuting thought crimes. Intentions matter. The guy who beats someone up for being gay is worse than the guy who beats someone up for hitting on his girlfriend. His brain isn't wired properly, and he needs to be hidden away from real human beings for as long as can be. Or killed, if at all possible.


SEAN

[niall mc cann]

They don't want you. If I "went back to Ireland," they'd tell me to "get th' fuck out o' 'ere!" Europe wanted us out. The American Revolution was just a really elaborate way of them making it look like they gave a shit.

Would you like to come back to ireland?

Are you rich?

Answer the second question first.

[TinMan]

As far as I'm concerned, there's only two ways to properly deal with these people;

1) They get to truly experience what "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" means, followed by incarceration for the remainder of their natural lives.

2) The government eats the cost of six 9mm shells and puts one in each of their heads.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I've met some cool folks from west Va. and was like, the state gets a bad rap, it's not full of inbreeds and half-wits. (only half full) The six morons have just set W. Va. back to the stone age, my friends are probably telling people they're from Alabama now out of shame.


Not that there's anything wrong with Alabama.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Not that there's anything wrong with Alabama.


I've been to Alabama, and while there are some truly fine people in Alabama, there are lots of things wrong with Alabama.

[HomerJay]

How many generations before we breed out all these ignorant fucks? Or are we holding out hope for an ELE?
That's the problem though - idiots, ignorant fucks and other assorted scum bags breed like rabbits.
It's all they know how to do - contraceptions just either too tricky or evil for them.
I've been saying that for years.
Smart*, educated, ambitious people will be a VERY small minority in the far future. Smart people have agendas and plans. Retards and most people living in poverty only hang out, abuse substances and fuck, thereby creating more of the same people whose idea of success is appearing on an episode of COPS while shirtless.
Thankfully, the poverty situation can be addressed and that cycle can be broken (in theory). Unfortunately, about 10 generations from now, a band of smart survivors will be holed up in the Smithsonian while fighting off hordes of mouth-breathers with torches and books that "aint got no pitchurs".

*My definition of "smart" is not merely someone with a high IQ. A high IQ MUST be applied for me to consider someone smart.

[Dreadstar]

Sounds like the premise to a Luke Wilson movie to me.

[HomerJay]

Sounds like the premise to a Luke Wilson movie to me.
I have it recorded on my DVR but have yet to watch it. I'm a big Mike Judge fan.

[Gilda Dent]

Are the penalties for these offences not harsh enough that they have to throw in something extra on top?

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation. It smacks of "thought crime" a little too much for my liking. If it's illegal to assault somebody, it should be illegal whether they're black, white, gay or straight.

Hate crime legislation also plays into the hands of the redneck fuckwits who like to complain about anybody but them being given "special treatment", and use that as an excuse to argue against any kind of equal rights.

Don't get me wrong, I think these inbred, halfwit, hateful pieces of shit should be locked up for life, but I'd think the same if they'd done the same thing to a white woman.

I'm also prepared to listen to reasonable arguments made against my point of view described above.

A person's state of mind, motivation, has always been an important part of what determines the severity of the crime. The grown man who genuinely believes the 15 year old he's sleeping with was 18 is less culpable than the one who knew his partner was 15.

Hate crimes legislation, like equal opportunity legislation, is almost always written in neutral language--you can't target someone/discriminate on the basis of race offers the same legal protections for all races. The same is true with gender, orientation, national origin and so forth. The only exception to this as disability where the wording would have to get a little wonky.

The effect is that powerless minorities are given some protection against the more powerful majorities, and often the majority groups don't like this, hence the "special rights" nonsense, but the principle, that everyone should be equal before the law, is perfectly in line with the principles of equality that most of Western society is based on.

When such legislation is passed, all it really says is that we're all equal, and this is what the bigots really object to, the idea that THEY are equal to US.

[Gilda Dent]

I have it recorded on my DVR but have yet to watch it. I'm a big Mike Judge fan.

Here's the relevant portion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuLV2q4UMM4

Most of it's available on Youtube. I think the producers were happy to see it up there because it got them some video rentals.

[Forefinger]

I've been to Alabama, and while there are some truly fine people in Alabama, there are lots of things wrong with Alabama.

There are lots of things that are wrong in any given state.

[Forefinger]

As far as I'm concerned, there's only two ways to properly deal with these people;

1) They get to truly experience what "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" means, followed by incarceration for the remainder of their natural lives.

2) The government eats the cost of six 9mm shells and puts one in each of their heads.

I kind of wish that this had happened in Florida, so that the male dumbasses might end up in the prison I work at. I'd make life rough on them.

[JeffreyWKramer]

There are lots of things that are wrong in any given state.

True enough. There are just lots more in some states - Alabama, for example - than some others.

Which isn't to say Alabama is the worst place on earth or anything like that. There are lots of worse places, including big chunks of Africa. Alabama probably isn't any higher up on the "worst" list than, say, the mid-twenties. It's even behind a couple other states.

[Jack Zodiac]

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation. It smacks of "thought crime" a little too much for my liking. If it's illegal to assault somebody, it should be illegal whether they're black, white, gay or straight.

Hate crime legislation also plays into the hands of the redneck fuckwits who like to complain about anybody but them being given "special treatment", and use that as an excuse to argue against any kind of equal rights.

Nor am I, usually; but in this case, assuming the victim is telling the truth (and after all of this, I wouldn't see any reason why she'd lie), they targeted her and abused her either because of her race, or kidnapped and tortured her randomly, but went even further because of the color of her skin. The fact that she's a twenty-something black girl being beaten and raped by a bunch of hillbillies who call her a nigger ever time they stab her definitely comes across as a crime of hatred towards her race.

And like I said before, if it takes just that to get these crazy assholes life sentences, so fuckin' be it.

[Jack Zodiac]

Would you like to come back to ireland?

Are you rich?

Answer the second question first.

Yeah, I'm rich!

...in spirit...

Meet me at the airport with a limo full of redheads, would ya'?

Sounds like the premise to a Luke Wilson movie to me.

That's exactly what I was thinking about when he started describing his vision of the future, except with more intolerance than stupidity. Although a future where our disputes a resolved in monster truck battles does seem kind of awesome. But, no, no... intelligence and a bright future... are what matters...

...but monster trucks would be cool, too.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Are the penalties for these offences not harsh enough that they have to throw in something extra on top?

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation. It smacks of "thought crime" a little too much for my liking. If it's illegal to assault somebody, it should be illegal whether they're black, white, gay or straight.

Hate crime legislation also plays into the hands of the redneck fuckwits who like to complain about anybody but them being given "special treatment", and use that as an excuse to argue against any kind of equal rights.

Don't get me wrong, I think these inbred, halfwit, hateful pieces of shit should be locked up for life, but I'd think the same if they'd done the same thing to a white woman.

I'm also prepared to listen to reasonable arguments made against my point of view described above.

I can see your point of view Spike, but remember 'Hate Crime' only comes in once action has been taken.
I think it's just there as a blanket to differentiate how screwed up the perpetrator is - if a guy beats up a guy who he caught hitting on his girl it's one thing, but if a guy beats up a guy for the sole reason he's gay, it's another.
In the first the man should be charged for the crime, no argument, but he had an actual motive and his state of mind can be understood, if not agreed with, by the average man - and there's a good chance in different circumstances it wouldn't have happened.
In the second the hate crime tag gets applied to show that not only did the victim do nothing to the perpetrator, but they weren't even picked at random - they were an innocent targeted because of an aspect of their life they had no control over.

Or even better, it's a good chance to get some throwback who has little hope of ever functioning in modern society out of the way for a few more years.

[Black Atom]

The one bit of good news in this thread...they all look EXACTLY like you'd expect psychotic criminal hicks to look. I can continue to judge books by their covers sans remorse.


SEAN

That surprised me also. I mean, after years of watching horror movies about city folk breaking down in small country towns and being waylayed by a bunch of barbarous, corpse-fucking backwood yokels, I'm shocked by how accurate the physical portrayals have turned out to be.

[Kevin M.]

At least law enforcement got some of these lower life forms before they could do more damage, and hurt more people.

[Cam63]

You say that, but they were all voted 'most likely to succeed' in their school year books.

They went to school ?

[beetlebum]

The FBI's hate-crime report for 2002 quotes a statement about hate crimes by the American Psychological Association:

not only is it an attack on one's physical self, but is also an attack on one's very identity." Attacks upon individuals because of a difference in how they look, pray or behave have long been a part of human history. It is only recently, however, that our society has given it a name and decided to monitor it, study it and legislate against it." 1
The FBI defines a hate crime (a.k.a. bias crime) to be:

a criminal offense committed against a person, property or society which is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin." 2
Public Law #103-322A, a 1994 federal law, defines a hate crime as:

a crime in which the defendant intentionally selects a victim, or in the case of a property crime, the property that is the object of the crime, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation of any person."

The biggest argument against hate crime legislation is because of free speech. In Canada, the hate crime provisions in the Criminal Code state that any material deemed to be hate propaganda will not be allowed through customs. That worries groups like Focus on the Family and Concerned Women for America, because they believe their statements about homosexuals will be deemed hate speech. They also cite cases where ministers have been arrested in countries like Sweden for saying homosexuality is wrong to back up their fears.

The same arguments made against hate crime legislation are also made about the Equal Rights Amendment. They claim the ERA will wipe out any laws that require a husband to support his wife. They also claim it will repeal all anti-abortion laws, will harm divorced women by wiping out child custody and require 18 year old girls to register with the military. They also say the ERA will will wipe out state labor laws and guidelines which benefit women in industry who do heavy, manual work and will take away the right of a wife or widow to receive social security benefits based on her husband's earnings.

Edit: I do not support the Evangelical view of homosexuality. I am just stating what they say.

I don't know how you can draw all that from something that says:Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.

On September 14, 2005, the House of Representatives suddenly passed 223-199 the federal “anti-hate” bill, the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2005. It was inserted as AMDT.2662 into the Children’s Safety Act. Despite all odds, the Senate Judiciary stripped the hate bill S.1145 from the Children's Safety Act on October 20th 2005, thanks in many parts to the loud voices of many broadcasters and talk radio listeners.

Whether we should pass hate crime legislation or the ERA or not, I don't know. Enforcing it will be the key. I just hope these fuckwits who did this get prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[MartinRedmond]

I hope they kill them all and then they dig them out and kill them again.

[beetlebum]

Criminal Code of Canada: Hate Provisions - Summary

"Hate" is defined as a crime under two parts of Canada’s Criminal Code: sections 318 and 319. To convict anyone under the Code, very specific proof is required: both of the criminal act itself, and of the intention or motivation to commit the crime. It isn’t enough that someone has said something hateful or untrue; the courts will only find someone guilty if they contravened the Code exactly, and if they did it deliberately.

In most cases, hate propaganda communicated through the Internet is an offence under the Criminal Code. Amendments to the Code, made under the Anti-Terrorism Act in December 2001, further clarify measures and offences regarding Internet hate crimes.

Section 318: Advocating Genocide

The criminal act of "advocating genocide" is defined as supporting or arguing for the killing of members of an "identifiable group" — persons distinguished by their colour, race, religion or ethnic origin. The intention or motivation would be the destruction of members of the targeted group. Any person who promotes genocide is guilty of an indictable offence, and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

Defining Genocide

Section 318 defines genocide as any acts committed with intent to destroy an identifiable group —such as killing members of the group, or deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the group’s physical destruction.

Section 319(1): Public Incitement of Hatred

The crime of "publicly inciting hatred" has four main elements. To contravene the Code, a person must:
communicate statements,
in a public place,
incite hatred against an identifiable group,
in such a way that there will likely be a breach of the peace.

Under section 319, "communicating" includes communicating by telephone, broadcasting or other audible or visible means; a "public place" is one to which the public has access by right or invitation, express or implied; and "statements" means words (spoken, written or recorded), gestures, and signs or other visible representations.

All the above elements must be proven for a court to find an accused guilty of either:
an indictable offence, for which the punishment is imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Section 319(2) defines the additional offence of communicating statements, other than in private conversation, that wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group.

Section 319(3) identifies acceptable defences. Indicates that no person shall be convicted of an offence if the statements in question:
are established to be true
were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds it was believed to be true
were expressed in good faith, it was attempted to establish by argument and opinion on a religious subject
were expressed in good faith, it was intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada

Warrants of Seizure

Section 320 of the Criminal Code provides for the seizure and forfeiture of physical hate propaganda material kept on any premises for distribution or sale.

Section 320.1 added under the Anti-Terrorism bill in 2001, allows the courts to order publicly available hate propaganda to be deleted from computer systems, such as a Web site. The individuals responsible for posting the offensive material are given the opportunity to convince the court that it does not constitute hate propaganda. This provision applies to any hate propaganda located on a Canadian computer system, regardless where the owner of the material is located.

Additional Hate Provisions

The courts may define the motivations of hate, bias or prejudice as aggravating factors when sentencing an offender for other offences, such as assault, damage to property, threatening, or harassment. The result is usually a more severe punishment (section 718.2(a)(i)).

............................

[Alex]

Yeah,i'm in the boat of not being in line with hate crime legislation.
BUT
In this situation, with the crime so horrible, anything that gets those people a worse punishment is ok with me.
Be more comfortable if they just gave them a harsher punishment because they are crazy assholes in general. But i'll take what i can get.

[Joe Rice]

Jesus, I hate white people so much.

Charleston was about an hour away from my home town. Those photos look all-too familiar.

[Dreadstar]

Those photos look all-too familiar.

Wait, I didn't think you'd ever been to Central Park during one of my family reunions.

[Alex]

Wait, I didn't think you'd ever been to Central Park during one of my family reunions.

I just read somewhere that there is probably a person who finds them all beautiful.

[Joe Rice]

I just read somewhere that there is probably a person who finds them all beautiful.

Each other . . .

We're all family in Appalachia.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I had missed this thread weirdly. My mom told me about this since Charleston's not that far away from where I live. Its sick and disturbing people like this can exist almost right next door to you.

All 6 deserve to meet the fate they deserve in jail.

[niall mc cann]

I don't understand this at all.

They're all different ages and everything... how did they all end up together in a crazy gang?

Also, why did they do this? Seriously. Because they hate black people? That's not a reason. I hate my next door neighbour, i don't kidnap and torture him.

What the hell made them leave their home to go kidnap a woman to torture?

[Joe Rice]

I don't understand this at all.

They're all different ages and everything... how did they all end up together in a crazy gang?

Also, why did they do this? Seriously. Because they hate black people? That's not a reason. I hate my next door neighbour, i don't kidnap and torture him.

What the hell made them leave their home to go kidnap a woman to torture?

I'll go out on a limb and say "being hicks on meth."

[JeffreyWKramer]

I'll go out on a limb and say "being ignorant, inbred hicks on meth."

Fixed that for you.

[HomerJay]

What the hell made them leave their home to go kidnap a woman to torture?
Just something to do, I guess.
I find it interesting that the two groups that you usually hear exhibiting this kind of behaviour are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. In-bred hicks who have given up, and rich, spoiled, bored white kids.

[mattx110]

Yeah, I'm rich!

...in spirit...

Meet me at the airport with a limo full of redheads, would ya'?



That's exactly what I was thinking about when he started describing his vision of the future, except with more intolerance than stupidity. Although a future where our disputes a resolved in monster truck battles does seem kind of awesome. But, no, no... intelligence and a bright future... are what matters...

...but monster trucks would be cool, too.

but think. racial equality. i mean, sexism was still massively rampant. but there was racial equality.
well, and all retards. but ignorance usually breeds intolerance.

[hyzmarca]

Hate crime legislation is terribly wasteful due to the necessity of proving that the crime was hate-motivated beyond a reasonable doubt. This is true of all sentence-enhancing factors. It is far better to have extremely flexible sentencing with very rough guidelines and just let a judge choose the appropriate sentence for the crime.

[Spike-X]

The biggest argument against hate crime legislation is because of free speech. In Canada, the hate crime provisions in the Criminal Code state that any material deemed to be hate propaganda will not be allowed through customs. That worries groups like Focus on the Family and Concerned Women for America, because they believe their statements about homosexuals will be deemed hate speech.

If the hat fits...

[Spike-X]

Oh, and you all made very good points. I think I'm able to wrap my head around this a little better now.

Being a white, heterosexual male probably doesn't really help there, either.

Thanks folks!

[Paul McEnery]

Hate crime legislation is terribly wasteful due to the necessity of proving that the crime was hate-motivated beyond a reasonable doubt. This is true of all sentence-enhancing factors. It is far better to have extremely flexible sentencing with very rough guidelines and just let a judge choose the appropriate sentence for the crime.

No it doesn't.

It's a piece of piss. All you have to prove is that the action isn't constative speech, and that in a demonstrably false way that it slanders a particular group or individual.

The 'fighting words' decision by the Supreme Court lays out reasonable guidelines for when it's okay to smack someone in the face. There's not much difference for deciding when someone gets to shut their big fat flapping gob.

The only question is which groups are protected, because I for one don't want to see corporations, religions, or political parties hiding behind such legislation.

However, adding "hate crime" to a crime like this is stupid. I mean, it's not as if you're going to do this to someone you like or identify with, is it.

And it's not worse to drag someone behind a car because you personally hate him or because you personally hate everyone like him. The only question is whether or not the judge has sympathy with your prejudice.

[Solaris]

Are the penalties for these offences not harsh enough that they have to throw in something extra on top?

I'm not a fan of hate crime legislation. It smacks of "thought crime" a little too much for my liking. If it's illegal to assault somebody, it should be illegal whether they're black, white, gay or straight.

Hate crime legislation also plays into the hands of the redneck fuckwits who like to complain about anybody but them being given "special treatment", and use that as an excuse to argue against any kind of equal rights.

Don't get me wrong, I think these inbred, halfwit, hateful pieces of shit should be locked up for life, but I'd think the same if they'd done the same thing to a white woman.

I'm also prepared to listen to reasonable arguments made against my point of view described above.

To be honest, Spike, I don't know. On the one hand, ANY such crime (torture, rape, etc.) should be treated to the max limit. On the other hand, I guess the idea behind adding "hate crime" to some crimes is that maybe it'll deter some haters out there from acting out their putrid shit.

When you look at it one way, some scum say they do stuff "because the victim was '_______'" (fill in the blank: gay, minority, other religion, female, etc.). When you look at it from the humanistic P.O.V., no human being should do such things to another, WHATEVER their supposed motivation.

BTW, here's another interesting snippet from the Yahoo article that I haven't seen a comment on yet:

Frankie Brewster was released from prison in September 2000 after serving five years for voluntary manslaughter and wanton endangerment in the death of an 84-year-old woman, according to court records.

So, this bitch of a "homeowner" served five years for killing an old woman... and now has done this. I think they should give her Life without parole---we don't need her back out in the population again.

As to the horror story itself... these people disgust and revolt me, and I feel incredible sorrow for the young woman who was the recipient of their... their... I can't even find a word worthy of being used to describe their vileness. I hope her family and friends come together to help her however they can, and that she somehow manages to recover from this horror.

And I think ALL of her attackers should get Life without parole. However, I seriously doubt our justice system will manage to do that... more's the pity.

[Solaris]

I've met some cool folks from west Va. and was like, the state gets a bad rap, it's not full of inbreeds and half-wits. (only half full) The six morons have just set W. Va. back to the stone age, my friends are probably telling people they're from Alabama now out of shame.


Not that there's anything wrong with Alabama.


Hah! Troy lived over half his life in Gadsden, AL, growing up... there was this one family that was inbred out the wazoo. I kid you not. A case of first cousins marrying first cousins, and lots of much closer-related incest---and as often as not, the "unexpected baby" was from fathers, brothers, uncles, etc... even if the girls then married a cousin. Let's put it this way: it'd been going on for generations, and no one else who lived it the area would ever marry any of them, so the only ones they had to marry were each other. (I think by this point, the concept of "move away and marry a stranger who doesn't know your family history" has probably been bred out of the family.)

What I don't understand is why various law enforcement and other agencies don't do stings on people like this, and start putting 'em in jail for it.

Maybe because in places like Alabama, the cops and judges are too busy chasing after "sodomites" and people selling sex toys. :rolleyes:

[niall mc cann]

I'll go out on a limb and say "being hicks on meth."

But they lured her to the house. She got a lift there. It lasted a week!This was planned, not some irrational fit of rage, surely? That doesn't seem like some drug-fueled assault to me.

This is baffling me.

[JeffreyWKramer]

But they lured her to the house. She got a lift there. It lasted a week!This was planned, not some irrational fit of rage, surely? That doesn't seem like some drug-fueled assault to me.

This is baffling me.

It's not like the sorts of atrocities committed for decades by folk like the KKK weren't planned, you know. These people are racists, and racism and evil tend to go together like politicians and dishonesty.

I'm sure the whole thing makes some semblance of sense in their small, addled minds.

[Puma]

I'm sure the whole thing makes some semblance of sense in their small, addled minds.

"well yer honor, see she's black, she wants white folk to treat her this way."



or something equally stupid.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I don't understand this at all.

They're all different ages and everything... how did they all end up together in a crazy gang?


Yeah I asked that about the snowtown murders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowtown_murders).

Hick attracts hick, and they don't really have anything else in their lives to occupy themselves.

[niall mc cann]

It's not like the sorts of atrocities committed for decades by folk like the KKK weren't planned, you know. These people are racists, and racism and evil tend to go together like politicians and dishonesty.

I'm sure the whole thing makes some semblance of sense in their small, addled minds.

yeah, but the KKK was a community organisation (as twisted as this sounds), which to my mind would explain the broad age profile; it's also a much larger organisation, which makes it easier for me to understand the kind of mass-mindedness and submersion of individual conscience and moral consideration than in a group of six people, some of them related.

I don't want anyone to think less of me, but i feel like (intellectually, at least) i can understand what happens in the KKK. This doesn't seem to me like the same thing.

Yeah I asked that about the snowtown murders.

Hick attracts hick, and they don't really have anything else in their lives to occupy themselves.

Best sentence ever:

"The town of Snowtown (population 520) is in the Mid North of South Australia..."

Barring only Hedwig's line from Hedwig and The Angry Inch:

"It was the late mid early eighties and i was in my early late mid twenties..."

Could you try and be a bit more specific there guys?:D

[beetlebum]

Oh, and you all made very good points. I think I'm able to wrap my head around this a little better now.

Being a white, heterosexual male probably doesn't really help there, either.

Thanks folks!

Grazi, Spike.:)

[beetlebum]

I'm not sure hate crime legislation will help. I believe justice should be blind and try to be as egalitarian as it can in this manner. I just re re-read something about Clear and Present Danger, the term famously coined by Oliver Wendall Holmes Jr. in the majority opinion for Schenck vs United States. Schenk vs. US was about whether or not criticism of the draft was protected by the first amendment. In it Holmes wrote:

"The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that the United States Congress has a right to prevent. It is a question of proximity and degree. When a nation is at war, many things that might be said in time of peace are such a hindrance to its effort that their utterance will not be endured so long as men fight, and that no Court could regard them as protected by any constitutional right."

Unfortunately in the Schenk case, Holmes test did nothing more than demand that the government show proof that the pamphelts Schenk was handing out had a bad tendency. His conviction was upheld. Overtime, the test became more speech protective. In Abrams vs United States, Holmes argued that the "silly leaflet" posed no real danger to U. S. efforts, and thus failed to present a "clear and present danger" that the government might be justified in trying to suppress. Writing that "the best test of truth is competition in the market" of ideas, Holmes urged his brethren to take their responsibities to enforce the First Amendment more seriously.

In Gitlow vs New York, the Court concludes that States as well as the federal government are to comply with the commands of the first amendment. The protections have been "incorporated" through the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.The Court would never again question the applicability of free speech protection to the States. A document, or speech in general must present real and immediate danger in order to be punished.

In 1992 through 1993, the court decide two cases addressing the constitutionality of statues aimed at bias centered intimidation and violent acts. They were R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul and Wisconsin v. Mitchell. In the first case, the supreme court evaluated for the first time a first amendment challenge to a hate crime statue. The ordinance before the court criminalised what it deemed fighting words, which can arouse anger. This statue was based on another case, Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire.

In Chaplinsky, the defendant had been convicted of issuing an insult after calling a city Marshall a "racketeer" and a "damned fascist." The doctrine of "fighting words," elaborated in this one case, has not played a significant role in recent free speech jurisprudence. Use of the doctrine in R.A.V. gave every appearance of a last-ditch effort to salvage a problematic ordinance,the Supreme Court decided that such words were not protected by the First Amendment.

The State of Minnesota used this as grounds to say hate speech was not protected by the first amendment. The Supreme Court disagreed on the grounds that these laws violated the first amendment and would not pass constitutional scrutiny.

To contrast this, in Wisconsin v. Mitchell, the Supreme Court unanimously upheld a Wisconsin statute which provides for an enhanced sentence where the defendant "intentionally selects the person against whom the crime is committed because of the race, religion, color, disability, sexual orientation, national origin or ancestry of that person." In the case a young black man incited people to beat a white man outside of a movie theater.

First, the Court affirmed that the statute was directed at a defendant's conduct -- committing a crime. The Court then held that, because the bias motivation would have to be connected with a specific act, there was little risk that the statute would chill protected bigoted speech. The statute focused not on the defendant's bigoted ideas, but rather on his actions based upon those ideas.

Finally, the Court made clear that "the first amendment does not prohibit the evidentiary use of speech to establish the elements of a crime or to prove motive or intent." After Mitchell, challenges to penalty-enhancement statutes on the basis of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution appear to be largely foreclosed.

As it stands, States are free to decide whether these statues violate their own provisions on free speech. As it stands, no State has done so. There can also be an argument made that these statues violate the equal protection clause of our constitution. Whatever the case, I pray that not only are victims rights upheld, but every single right given to us is protected.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Originally Posted by Your Imaginary Pal
I've met some cool folks from west Va. and was like, the state gets a bad rap, it's not full of inbreeds and half-wits. (only half full) The six morons have just set W. Va. back to the stone age, my friends are probably telling people they're from Alabama now out of shame.


Not that there's anything wrong with Alabama.

I am from WV. And yeah the state does get its bad raps at times when people like this do moronic evil shit . But crime and evil shit like this crime happens all over and I'm sure every state has its horror story and thing that made them look bad.

Its just something we'll have to deal with and hopefully they throw the key away on these sickos.