Who's the REAL Big Bad, Comic Poccy or Cartoon Apocalypse?

[DaeJi]

I will admit, I'm taking this idea from a thread over on the Newsarama boards :).

So which version of Apocalypse nails the character down, in name and power and threat? Is the comics, the birthplace of the character, or is X-Men: TAS (the one from the earlier to mid 90's, not Evolution)?

[DaeJi]

My take:

Time after time after time it has been stated that Apocalypse in the comics isn't even a shadow of the kind of threat he's supposedly is. He's a A-Level character with B-Level writing, and is badly in need of a makeover.

Enter X-Men: The Animated Series. There, APOCALYPSE was that villain, that guy that everyone feared. He was powerful, untouchable, evil, able to beat around people like Magneto and Gladiator with enough ease that people knew not to mess with him. Every time he appeared it was a "oh shit!" moment; he was APOCALYPSE in name and presence.

It's funny to me how the cartoons get it, but the comics don't. Apocalypse should be a Doom level threat, and in the cartoons he easily is, but not so much in the comics. If Marvel does decide to do something with him, a good place to start is by looking at the cartoon and seeing how they did it.

[ExodusCloak]

I'm going to be annoying and say the Evolution one. TAS version was a joke and the 616 version is a laughing stock.

[Joe Acro]

Nowhere, really. Admittedly, the Animated Series and Evolution both put their own spin on the character, making him much more threatening (especially in Evolution's case), but the original character isn't represented. He hasn't been well-represented in comic book form for quite some time.

I'll choose Evolution, since they did a great job differentiating their Apocalypse from any other version.

[jarrod]

I really liked Milligan's psychology for the character, even the story was bit insulting crap. An intellictually conflicted Apocalypse has gigantic story potential though imo... I'd like to see someone playing off that in the future.

[Toboe]

His appearance on X-Men: Evolution is the only one I've been able to take seriously and that seemed like a real threat.
Every other incarnation of the character is a joke.

[Canemacar]

"I am the rocks of the Eternal Shore! Crash against me and be broken!"

Says it all really.

[The Fury]

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5437565]I'm going to be annoying and say the Evolution one. TAS version was a joke and the 616 version is a laughing stock.[/QUOTE

Did you watch TAS series with Apocalypse in? He owned the X-men on numerous occasions. His lines were the best the series had and in one episode he killed all the x-men in one shot.

Evolution had a plan and was only beaten by a plot device.

616 is crap, we all know that.

[ExodusCloak]

Did you watch TAS series with Apocalypse in? He owned the X-men on numerous occasions. His lines were the best the series had and in one episode he killed all the x-men in one shot.

Evolution had a plan and was only beaten by a plot device.

616 is crap, we all know that.

I've never liked the TAS versions battle tactics. He was too physical when he fought the X-Men and had that stupid purple laser gun...and his voice just irked me. I think when a character like Apocalypse has to increase his size and physically swat the X-Men it takes away from his appeal. IMO that's why Doom and Mags are cooler. Not to mention the fact that Apocalypse talked too much.
The Evolution version was more of what I expect off a character like Apocalypse less physical more energy based and silent.(Well it was great until they made him talk at the end)

[Don Quixote]

When's the last time Apocalypse was anything other than a joke in the comics? His last appearance was simply embarrassing.

I don't remember too much of TAS version, but I do remember him at least being treated as a serious threat. But more, as people have said, a big physical threat. Not much indication that he could live up to his name.

[Arilou]

.(Well it was great until they made him talk at the end)


To be fair, his dialogue was excellent.
"Since when has humanity ever known what it needs?" Totally dismissive. Supremely arrogant, in just about every way on a completely different level.

That's Apocalypse. And he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those damn kids!

[Elias Bogan]

As bad as Milligan's story was, it set up what could potentially be an extremely interesting story. The celestials have never truly been explored and a crossover involving them coming to earth to destroy it would give Marvel an excuse to tie all their main books together (New Avengers, FF, Amazing, Uncanny).

[DDM]

Apocalypse has been miswritten for several years now, but he true shining moment in comics is when he first appears in X-Factor #5-6 as the mastermind behind the Alliance of Evil:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97452433904.6.GIF

Apocalypse shows himself to be above human concerns & staying behind in the shadows pulling the strings of his pawns; he original Four Horsemen were the best:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97452433904.19.GIF
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97452433904.24.GIF
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97452433904.25.GIF

Apocalypse even fought the powerful High Evolutionary in X-Factor Annual #3! Then he effortless fought the God of Mischief & Lies, Loki in X-Factor #50 because he did not want to partake in Loki's "Acts of Vengeance."

Louise Simonson wrote Apocalypse best. Other writers misunderstand Apocalypse's perversion of the Darwin's evolutionary theory. Apoclaypse constantly wants to test mutants to see if they are "worthy" to serve his own twisted agenda; it's not about ruling over them. He's beyond that.

[Joe Acro]

Apoclaypse constantly wants to test mutants to see if they are "worthy" to serve his own twisted agenda; it's not about ruling over them. He's beyond that.It's not just mutants. He wants to test everyone, whether they be human, mutate, mutant, or monster. If you survive his tests, you haven proven your worth to live.

[KirkWarren]

Does Age of Apocalypse count? Because that is the absolute definitive version of Apocalypse in my eyes. Otherwise, his cartoon appearances have been far superior to his comic versions in almost every regard.

[DDM]

Does Age of Apocalypse count? Because that is the absolute definitive version of Apocalypse in my eyes. Otherwise, his cartoon appearances have been far superior to his comic versions in almost every regard.

The irony of Age of Apocalypse is Apocalypse himself is hardly in the series at all; it's also an alternate reality which means the mainstream Marvel Universe Apocalypse does not share the same history as the AGA Apocalypse.

[Gibbering Fool]

My first encounter with Apocalypse was in the 90's animated series. I was about 8 or 9 at the time. Its funny because at first I didn't even realise he was a mutant; I thought he was some kind of alien lol. That guy was bad@$$, the X-men couldn't lay a scratch on him. Which always made me wonder why he doesn't just walk around on a rampage killing everyone rather than concocting elaborate plans with mutant viruses and what not.

After reading the comic version I was strongly disapointed. I mean he got his backside handed to him by Stryfe for crying out load.

I liked the personality of this latest incarnation of Poccy. I suspected that maybe they were going to mention something about Cyclops' humanity rubbing off on him when they were merged but they didn't. What I didn't like was how much of a chump he was. If he was as tough as cartoon Apocalypse he could have handed the X-men their @$$es and continued on with his scheme.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

I love how cartoon Apocalypse could become as big as he wanted that was pretty cool. I don't remember him doing that in the comics.

[CJ Lentze]

My first encounter with Apocalypse was in the 90's animated series. I was about 8 or 9 at the time. Its funny because at first I didn't even realise he was a mutant; I thought he was some kind of alien lol. That guy was bad@$$, the X-men couldn't lay a scratch on him. Which always made me wonder why he doesn't just walk around on a rampage killing everyone rather than concocting elaborate plans with mutant viruses and what not.

After reading the comic version I was strongly disapointed. I mean he got his backside handed to him by Stryfe for crying out load.

I liked the personality of this latest incarnation of Poccy. I suspected that maybe they were going to mention something about Cyclops' humanity rubbing off on him when they were merged but they didn't. What I didn't like was how much of a chump he was. If he was as tough as cartoon Apocalypse he could have handed the X-men their @$$es and continued on with his scheme.

I largely agree with this. But because I had the image of cartoon Apocalypse in my head everytime Apoc made an appearance in the comics, he still had this all-powerful all-dangerous air about him. So I still thought of him as a credible threat, until I realised that his Horsemen shtick gets old real fast. That's why I tire of Apocalypse these days; the more they use him, the less threatening he becomes.

[Pro]

So I still thought of him as a credible threat, until I realised that his Horsemen shtick gets old real fast. That's why I tire of Apocalypse these days; the more they use him, the less threatening he becomes.

Agreed, they should give Apocalypse some horsemen who aren't ineffective or betray him. It makes him look pathetic. I really don't get why he insists on taking involuntary heroes and making them horsemen instead of voluntary bad guys. His latest appearance in Blood of Apocalypse was the worst in that aspect. It's almost as if he's setting himself up for failure.

I don't remember him doing that in the comics.

Then you need to reread your comics :). He did so in x-factor 67 (?). He also showed the ability in AoA.

[madrox1977]

Cartoon Apocalypse, was much more bad-ass and i agree with all the comments about his recent choices for horsemen, he really should know better.

[Karl H]

Cartoon Poccy had the best dialogue.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Then you need to reread your comics :). He did so in x-factor 67 (?). He also showed the ability in AoA.

I guess I remember the X-Factor one but did he get as big as he did in the comics?

[Will.S]

The constant mishandling of Apocalypse really irks me so him being so far superior in threat level in both cartoons makes me throw up my hands in the air and scream in disgust.

The only people who have written him well are Louise Simonson herself who created him, Frank Tieri in Apocalypse vs Dracula and Peter Milligan in Cyclops and Phoenix. What's odd is that Peter Milligan wrote a really good Apocalypse in Cyclops and Phoenix yet he totally drops the ball in Blood of Apocalypse. Perhaps the editors at the time want to transition Apocalypse into a different path rather than repeating the same old horsemen gimmick that constantly fails him in the end.

Hopefully with the Celestial stuff going on he'll be similar to either cartoon counterparts but maybe more like the Evolution one in design.

[ExodusCloak]

Bloodties Exodus was a pretty damn good Horsemen...so credit to Apocalypse there.

[Tinmansstory]

I loved Poccy in the first x-men series. Between the 2-parter with Bishop, the stand-alone episode with Ship, and the Beyond Good and Evil 5 parter, he rocked.

One line I always remembered, from the Ship episode (paraphrasing): "You think your weapons can defeat me? You are no closer than the Babylonians with their swords and fire sticks!"

[CE_Rap]

I liked the Evolution version a helluva lot. Just this threat that was incredibly intimidating---even BEFORE he looked like the Apocalypse we all recognize (I thought that was sick, btw).

BUt if i were to do things up---I'd have combined some of his dialog from X-Men: TAS. It didn't happen everytime, but he really DID have some pretty great lines. That poetic nature he had in describing is ultimate goals was what i really liked, even as a little kid.

so yea, if we could, blend those two and Boom.

[Domo Goddess]

TAS Apocalypse was good, but his voice kind of reminded me of Sean Connery a little bit. ( No offense to any Sean Connery fans ! )

[Joe Acro]

TAS Apocalypse was good, but his voice kind of reminded me of Sean Connery a little bit. ( No offense to any Sean Connery fans ! )I thought I was the only one!

[Tinmansstory]

Nope, I also think of Connery. Well, with a metallic overtone.

[CaptainCanada]

One line I always remembered, from the Ship episode (paraphrasing): "You think your weapons can defeat me? You are no closer than the Babylonians with their swords and fire sticks!"
Yeah, that was awesome.

Another one was his introductory lines in The Cure; after being told that another mutant has been found to be his slave:
"The billionaire, Warren Worthington, with the wings of an angel." (I love that last part)
"How did you know he was a mutant?"
"I know more of this world than you can even dream. That is why I must destroy it."

The comics Apocalypse has never done anything half as cool as when cartoon Apocalypse totally screws over Deathbird in Beyond Good and Evil Part II; I mean, normally his best lines are the absurdly flowery stuff, but you can't get much better than "I lied." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtbAyEQyHog&mode=related&search=)

[CE_Rap]

Yeah, that was awesome.

Another one was his introductory lines in The Cure; after being told that another mutant has been found to be his slave:
"The billionaire, Warren Worthington, with the wings of an angel." (I love that last part)
"How did you know he was a mutant?"
"I know more of this world than you can even dream. That is why I must destroy it."

The comics Apocalypse has never done anything half as cool as when cartoon Apocalypse totally screws over Deathbird in Beyond Good and Evil Part II; I mean, normally his best lines are the absurdly flowery stuff, but you can't get much better than "I lied." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtbAyEQyHog&mode=related&search=)

Or how 'bout from "BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL" part I, when Cable's trying to blow up his lazarus chamber. Cable essentially says that Apocalypse is too evil to live. To which Apocalypse simple torts:

"I am not malevolent--I merely AM!"

I always thought that was an interesting way of interpreting the way he sees himself---not as a force of evil, but a force as natural as a hurricane.

[DaeJi]

I remember the first time I saw Apocalypse, in the cartoon. Just his one exchange with Creed made me think he was the coolest thing ever. These lines here, after he reveals himself for what he truely is:

"Y-y-you're a mutant??"

"I am far above mutant, as they are above you..."

[DHX]

ah man now you guys are making me wish i had xmen TAS on dvd just so i can rewatch poccy and my man bishop.

[Gibbering Fool]

Beyond Good and Evil was the highlight of the X-men animated series for me. Seeing Apocalypse as the grand manipulator was awesome, though his plan to kidnap telepaths and use them to rewrite time or something was a little too out there to be scary. Seeing him boss around Sinister, the Nasty Boys, Mystique, Sabertooth and even Magneto was pretty cool.