Sony is distributing a guide to game reviewers to explain to them how to play Lair

[Thorlief]

no it's not a joke. Yes, it's funnier than a joke

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/818/818597p1.html


also, first review!
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/09/review-the-lair.html

[Xero Kaiser]

Just fix the controls Sony. One quick patch and this can all be over

[jesse_custer]

Somehow, Sony has now dropped lower than the proverbial snake's ballbag.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Just fix the controls Sony. One quick patch and this can all be over

"But it's not broken", says the developers.

"Shut up", reply the masses.

"Okay."

[Sanagi]

It's real well edited, too! (http://ft.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/db/db616940558c60b7ca0dd4571fa95215afa3db0a.jpg)

[Kevin M.]

That's a very bad sign if Sony is telling people how to play the game.

[Jack Zodiac]

Here, I'll tell all of you how to play "Lair." It's real simple. First, go to your local gaming store. Go to to PS3 section. Remember that you have taste and logic and didn't buy a PS3, turn around to the Xbox 360 section and pick up "Bioshock." Play. Enjoy the simple controls and enthralling action and intense plot.

[Kevin M.]

Here, I'll tell all of you how to play "Lair." It's real simple. First, go to your local gaming store. Go to to PS3 section. Remember that you have taste and logic and didn't buy a PS3, turn around to the Xbox 360 section and pick up "Bioshock." Play. Enjoy the simple controls and enthralling action and intense plot.

Qouted for making a whole lot of sense.

[Gargus]

Ahhhh the bash sony bandwagon. This is much like how its now favorable to bash bush when not long ago saying something against him was unamerican, or how everyone used to love brad pitt and now he is only mentioned when something bad can be said, even mcdonalds has taken tumble when people got tired of them and decided they wanted to blame bad health on them.

Used to xbox was the target of so much pointless hate and even though its a new machine with the same quality of stuff everyone loves it.

So what? Its a stupid guide on how to use the motion controller. Its no damn different than all the pages dedicated on how to use the wiimote that come with the system, shouldnt nintendo also be the target of your remarks?

Really though folks, if all you can do is bash a system then your not gamers. You just people who want something to complain about. A system doesnt mean squat, not the company who make them. Only thing that matters in gaming is the games themselves.

Im not a fan of any one system, I am a fan of the games.

[Kevin M.]

Ahhhh the bash sony bandwagon. This is much like how its now favorable to bash bush when not long ago saying something against him was unamerican, or how everyone used to love brad pitt and now he is only mentioned when something bad can be said, even mcdonalds has taken tumble when people got tired of them and decided they wanted to blame bad health on them.

Used to xbox was the target of so much pointless hate and even though its a new machine with the same quality of stuff everyone loves it.

So what? Its a stupid guide on how to use the motion controller. Its no damn different than all the pages dedicated on how to use the wiimote that come with the system, shouldnt nintendo also be the target of your remarks?

Really though folks, if all you can do is bash a system then your not gamers. You just people who want something to complain about. A system doesnt mean squat, not the company who make them. Only thing that matters in gaming is the games themselves.

Im not a fan of any one system, I am a fan of the games.

You know everyone just ignores your posts, right?

[Thorlief]

Ahhhh the bash sony bandwagon. This is much like how its now favorable to bash bush when not long ago saying something against him was unamerican, or how everyone used to love brad pitt and now he is only mentioned when something bad can be said, even mcdonalds has taken tumble when people got tired of them and decided they wanted to blame bad health on them.

Used to xbox was the target of so much pointless hate and even though its a new machine with the same quality of stuff everyone loves it.

So what? Its a stupid guide on how to use the motion controller. Its no damn different than all the pages dedicated on how to use the wiimote that come with the system, shouldnt nintendo also be the target of your remarks?

Really though folks, if all you can do is bash a system then your not gamers. You just people who want something to complain about. A system doesnt mean squat, not the company who make them. Only thing that matters in gaming is the games themselves.

Im not a fan of any one system, I am a fan of the games.

dude, you're wrong here. First of all, how can you compare a instruction booklet included in every videogaming product to a guide sent to the reviewers, just after *surprise!* the crappy reviews came out?
Julian Eggebrecht has been acting like an idiot since the first low scores popped out, and this is just the icing.
First he says "personal tragedies" haunted the development, then he sends a guide about how to play a freaking game to the reviewers. This is beyond pathetic, this is no anti-Sony, this is just pathetic

remember: the timing is wrong, horribly wrong. Had they sent this before release it would have been a slightly different story. It's time for Julian to understand that instead of distributing a guide because apparently 9 out of 10 reviews couldn't figure out how to play your game properly, he should just accept the fact that the game is boned

[Jared H.]

Ahhhh the bash sony bandwagon. This is much like how its now favorable to bash bush when not long ago saying something against him was unamerican, or how everyone used to love brad pitt and now he is only mentioned when something bad can be said, even mcdonalds has taken tumble when people got tired of them and decided they wanted to blame bad health on them.

Used to xbox was the target of so much pointless hate and even though its a new machine with the same quality of stuff everyone loves it.

So what? Its a stupid guide on how to use the motion controller. Its no damn different than all the pages dedicated on how to use the wiimote that come with the system, shouldnt nintendo also be the target of your remarks?

Really though folks, if all you can do is bash a system then your not gamers. You just people who want something to complain about. A system doesnt mean squat, not the company who make them. Only thing that matters in gaming is the games themselves.

Im not a fan of any one system, I am a fan of the games.


I own a PS3. I LIKE the PS3. But Lair's controls are absolute garbage. Lair got wtfpwn3d in reviews, largely because of the bad controls. Now Sony is trying to tell professional reviewers how to play the game in an attempt to salvage the game score. Whether or not this is an "evil" move, it is a colossally stupid one, and deserves ridicule.

And for the record, I've ALWAYS hated Bush.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Im not a fan of any one system, I am a fan of the games.

You do know that as much as we crab, a good number of us own multiple next-gen consoles, right?


I owned a N64 since the day it was out, didn't stop me from making plenty of notes about its lack of quality in certain genres, or the fact that the games available sucked like a Hoover.


If the game's controls suck, they suck. They remind me of the clipped-wing Dodo plane from GTA3. There are people who took hours upon hours just to teach themselves how to fly the thing without falling like a rock, and even wrote guides about it. They were proud of it, and good for them, but I saw no point in wasting my time. I simply played the rest of the game, and enjoyed myself.

Here? Those crap controls *are* the main game. And I have no interest in having to consult guides and train myself to do something that should be natural, and intuitive. Screw that noise.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Ahhhh the bash sony bandwagon. This is much like how its now favorable to bash bush when not long ago saying something against him was unamerican,

And when there were still folks who said 'get out of here with that propaganda bull, we believe in America, we just don't believe in his ability to count. Or tie his shoes. Or drink and breathe at the same time.'

And if we're dis-satisfied with this product, we'll speak our minds here as well.

[Jared H.]

I am so bloody sick of this "not a true gamer" garbage, so here goes.

The following picture is of my home rig. Note the PS3, 360, and the Wii there. Also note the nice little note I left.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1848/gargusrx5.gif

Now here's some facts about me:

I'm 24 years old, with Asperger's syndrome, and video games have been my Aspie focus as well as pastime for over a decade and a half. Because of my poor motor control skills that comes with being a high-functioning autistic, I don't have the mad skillz that many gamers in this day and age do. I play entirely for fun. However, I have far more hours on video games than many my age. I consider myself a true gamer, and believe that most of the judgements I make upon playing a video game to be well-reasoned.

Please do not assume that my opinion differing from yours deems you a superior gamer. I do not make any presumptions as to your quality as a gamer yourself, but do take umbrage when you denounce dissenting opinions as beneath you.

So please, either respect your fellow gamers as equals or shut your bloody trap. The haters are on the gamefaqs and IGN boards, not here.

[1WEBHEAD]

Oh Sony, don't get me wrong, I'm still in love with you it's just that you need to clean up your act.

One minor set back. I'm sure you'll get it right next time with Heavenly Sword, Rachet and Clank, and Uncharted: Drake's Fortune.

Until then, I think I'll be saying over at Microsoft's house.

Call me.:(

[Titan76]

That's a very bad sign if Sony is telling people how to play the game.
How's this any different then all those Walk-though-books other games have?

[Chase]

How's this any different then all those Walk-though-books other games have?

Well, for one, Sony is sending it directly to video game journalists, which makes it seem like a deliberate attempt at influencing said journalists. Whereas other guides are not sent directly to gamers by the game's company.

[The Fury]

I own a PS3. I LIKE the PS3. But Lair's controls are absolute garbage. Lair got wtfpwn3d in reviews, largely because of the bad controls. Now Sony is trying to tell professional reviewers how to play the game in an attempt to salvage the game score. Whether or not this is an "evil" move, it is a colossally stupid one, and deserves ridicule..

Play magazine gave it 9/10. What did they see that everyone else didn't?

[The Fury]

Whereas other guides are not sent directly to gamers by the game's company.
I presume this does not include the cute little books you get with games when you buy them that tell you how to play them? :p

[Sanagi]

Play magazine gave it 9/10. What did they see that everyone else didn't?
The quote here (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/lair) talks about the graphics and sound... The other reviews either mention the control problems or other reasons for disliking the game.

1UP's quote is the best: "Lair is a game that you'll want for its eye-popping experience rather than its gameplay. So buy it if you want to justify all the thousands you spent on your PS3 and that 1080p HDTV you can see from the International Space Station. Don't buy it if you want a dragon that does what it's damn well told."

[The Fury]

The quote here (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/lair) talks about the graphics and sound... The other reviews either mention the control problems or other reasons for disliking the game.

1UP's quote is the best: "Lair is a game that you'll want for its eye-popping experience rather than its gameplay. So buy it if you want to justify all the thousands you spent on your PS3 and that 1080p HDTV you can see from the International Space Station. Don't buy it if you want a dragon that does what it's damn well told."
That answered that. But then i read the peoples reviews below. 2 8s, 2 9s and a 10...what did they see?

Obviously not what the people that gave it 4 or 0 did.

[Sanagi]

That answered that. But then i read the peoples reviews below. 2 8s, 2 9s and a 10...what did they see?

Obviously not what the people that gave it 4 or 0 did.


Dunno. And I'm not saying it isn't possible that the critics are wrong on this(it's not like I've played the game), but user reviews of any kind do tend to be skewed towards the people who actually care about the product.

[Xero Kaiser]

Play magazine gave it 9/10. What did they see that everyone else didn't?

Never trust a Play score.

Never

[Thorlief]

That answered that. But then i read the peoples reviews below. 2 8s, 2 9s and a 10...what did they see?

Obviously not what the people that gave it 4 or 0 did.



people's reviews? Take em with a grain of salt. I've seen Sony owners defending the game just because they felt raped by the low score. Neogaf is full of people calling conspiracies and biased reviewers..ironically, the same reviewers they praised because the rated GOW 2- for example- high

[Titan76]

Well, for one, Sony is sending it directly to video game journalists, which makes it seem like a deliberate attempt at influencing said journalists.
A walk-trough's purposes is to help people negative through the game and understand how to play it better. It can't make a game that sucks better or make a game that's good suck.
Whereas other guides are not sent directly to gamers by the game's company.
That's because the people who write about the game can have a big influence on people who want to buy the game.

So it makes perfect sense to make sure a gaming journalist completely understand everything about the game before he/she writes their review about it.

[Thorlief]

it doesnt make sense because its been sent after the reviews, not before

or better, it does make sense. But in a totally different way

[Titan76]

it doesnt make sense because its been sent after the reviews, not before

or better, it does make sense. But in a totally different way
Well, did the reviewers change their minds after getting one and then playing it again?

And if you look at the PS3 its not selling well right now so Sony can not afford to have any of its games being blasted by reviewers.

[Thorlief]

Well, did the reviewers change their minds after getting one and then playing it again?

And if you look at the PS3 its not selling well right now so Sony can not afford to have any of its games being blasted by reviewers.


no it didnt change the reviewers' minds, thats why it's pointless and embarassing at the same time. And it's going to crush Sony's image even more because everyone is laughing at it

the PS3 may not afford its games to be bashed, but the correct solution would be to try to develop good games

[Titan76]

no it didnt change the reviewers' minds, thats why it's pointless and embarassing at the same time. And it's going to crush Sony's image even more because everyone is laughing at it
One game(that I didn't know about until this thread) will not crush Sony's image. But the fans will get a laugh out of it.
the PS3 may not afford its games to be bashed, but the correct solution would be to try to develop good games
Which GOW 3 will solve when it comes out.:D Hopefully I will be able to get a PS3 by then.

[Jared H.]

Play magazine gave it 9/10. What did they see that everyone else didn't?

Dunno, but Penny Arcade apparently has an idea:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070903.jpg

[jesse_custer]

One game(that I didn't know about until this thread) will not crush Sony's image.

One mistake may not crush Sony, but the company has made numerous mistakes in the past year or so, and this is probably the most pathetic thing I've ever heard of from a video game company. If anything, it shows that Sony is desperate in a time of struggle. As IGN noted, this event was unprecedented.

It's also an insult to professional game reviewers. That's why it's so stupid.

[The Fury]

Never trust a Play score.

Never
Fair enough, I only really trust Edge magazine anyway (they can be really harsh) but I was wondering. There must have been some reason.

[Black Atom]

For someone who claims to not care about the systems, Gargus sure spends a lot of time defending Sony. When he's not creating threads openly marketing the PS3, that is.

Regarding Lair, the reviews haven't just been complaining about the controls. A few have complained about the bad camera and shallow gameplay as well.

[Chase]

I presume this does not include the cute little books you get with games when you buy them that tell you how to play them? :p


DAMN U

Um, those are... smaller?

*goes to corner*

*kicks Jack Horner*

... ;)

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Man......... Honest to god, I've tried not to insult Sony for a very long time, but this looks like straight up desperation.

If the majority of the reviewers have said that the game sucks, something tells me that it's not just the controls. Metroid Prime was criticised because of it's control scheme, and it didn't nearly get as bad reviews as Lair has. Def Jam Icon's gameplay in general was horrendous, no way around it, and even that got better reviews than Lair.

So, IMO, a guide isn't gonna change a thing. Heck, it may decrease the scores from some reviewers for insulting their intelligence. If they really felt like teaching people how to play this game, they could have either made a tutorial or put it in the dang instruction's manual.

Here's an example. Dragonball Z Legends had pretty complex gameplay and controls. They made sure that they wrote every single detail on how to play (even a step by step on how to connect your attacks and counterattack) inside the manual. If I knew Japanese, I would have easily understood it, but even though I didn't, it was written in a way that I could understand it even without knowing Japanese (though it took me a bit longer to get the hang of it).

As I said, if the game in general isn't that good, a guide won't make it better.

[SAMAS]

A walk-trough's purposes is to help people negative through the game and understand how to play it better. It can't make a game that sucks better or make a game that's good suck.

That's because the people who write about the game can have a big influence on people who want to buy the game.

So it makes perfect sense to make sure a gaming journalist completely understand everything about the game before he/she writes their review about it.

But any game designer worth their salt will tell you that if you have to study a strategy guide to play a game on it's most basic levels, then you need to send that sucker back for fine-tuning.

Apparently, Sony didn't listen to theirs.

[Jade_GL]

But any game designer worth their salt will tell you that if you have to study a strategy guide to play a game on it's most basic levels, then you need to send that sucker back for fine-tuning.

Apparently, Sony didn't listen to theirs.

Exactly. Quoted for much truthiness.

I got right into Oblivion and sure I didn't know all the tricks at that point, but the controls were relatively simple. Same for Crackdown, Guitar Hero II, and many other games that have been taking all of my free time lately.

I can see a game guide to understand the real nuts and bolts and how to make the experience better, but not to just play the game at it's mostbasic level. That should be intuitive and, most of all, fun.

This just looks like a desperate move in the end.

[Black Atom]

I want more companies to adopt this sort of business sense.

"Your car's handling isn't bad. You just don't know how to drive. Read this instruction booklet when you get out of the hospital."

[Thorlief]

Julian Eggebrecht keeps rocking around


Quote:
As well as discussing the chances of a new Rogue Squadron game when we sat down with Factor 5's president Julian Eggebrecht recently, we also chewed over the pros and cons of motion-control. To our surprise, the Lair dev was happy to say that he thought Warhawk's implementation of pad-tilting magic left a little to be desired.

Quote:
Warhawk's controls are... eurgh!," Eggebrecht told us with a shudder. He explained that while motion-sensing felt the perfect way to convey the feeling of controlling a dragon in Lair, he believed the kinetic technology in PS3's Sixaxis controllers shouldn't be used just because it's there. "I see motion-sensing as a complimentary, additional new step in terms of controls and where it fits you should use it and where it doesn't fit, don't force it. Please don't force it."

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=2007091811176593090&releaseId=2005138888000000020735

It's like..I don't know what it's like.
It's like watching the saddest circus in the world

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Quote:
Warhawk's controls are... eurgh!," Eggebrecht told us with a shudder. He explained that while motion-sensing felt the perfect way to convey the feeling of controlling a dragon in Lair, he believed the kinetic technology in PS3's Sixaxis controllers shouldn't be used just because it's there. "I see motion-sensing as a complimentary, additional new step in terms of controls and where it fits you should use it and where it doesn't fit, don't force it. Please don't force it."[/I]


When we promptly asked him if he ever felt himself to be in danger from an avalanche of irony, he stared at us blankly, and replied "What?"