How Consistent Would You Say World War Hulk Has Been?

[Kevinroc]

One of the biggest charges against Civil War was that it was an extremely inconsistent crossover. So with World War Hulk as 2007's big Marvel crossover, I was wondering how consistent you would say it has been.

[Superbeast]

I went with so so. Elloe and Korg did well against the Avengers in the main WWH book but got beat by the reserves in Avengers: Initiative? Also, if Korg is already back, did they find Arch-E's killer and if they did, is he going to have to fight in MSG? The timing of the release of issues has led to a staggered and confusing narrative.

[Funkdmonkey]

To much speculation, interpretation, issue 'time placement", and off-panel action muddles the consistency.

It's never straight forward, theres always that one questionable factor that the writers likely put in to make the Hulk battles less one-sided. IE, what would the nanites do, is Hulk actually stopping Juggernaut in WWH: Xmen - 3, would Strange really be so disabled with such an injury - as well as having no way to quickly remedy such an injury?, etc.

[Magneto Rocks]

Yeah, there are some giant "out"s being given. Thus far, there is basically no character I'd put the Hulk above who I wouldn't have put him above pre-WWH. They're giving us giant cheats for Black Bolt, for Strange, for Iron Man, for Juggernaut- and I suspect for Sentry as well.

I voted "so-so". There are some big flaws, there's been some jobbing, there are times my suspension of disbelief is challenged- particularly regarding Reed's options and Strange's options, and Zom. And timing is a big one- has this all just been one really long day? I thought we might at least have a day or two gap between the defeat of the FF and the attack on Strange but it seems barely any time passes (And Hulk builds a gladiatorial arena and sets up toture chambers and whatnot in record time) since Wong apparantly never thinks to suggest healing Strange's hands before Hiroim is right outside. And I have NO IDEA when the Hell Hulk did what he did to Madisen Square Garden- the only way it even makes vague sense is if he took five minutes to do it before going after the FF and then finished up later. The timeline has many more holes than Civil War. I mean look at it-

Hulk fights Iron Man -> IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS....
Hulk fights Avengers ->Apparantly within minutes afterwards...
Hulk fights Fantastic Four-> IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS...
Hulk talks to Rick Jones-> IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS...
Hulk attacked by Strange-> IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS...
Hulk fights Hercules->IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS....
Hulk attacked by army

And yet somewhere in there, he has set up the MSG arena because it's all ready during the army fight according to Avengers: The Initiative. Plus we have the incredible teleporting Rick Jones.

It's not awful. Maybe slightly worse than Civil War's, though it's had less outright contradictions thus far. I can see how you'd like it but how can ANYONE say there are no big holes when the timeline doesn't match up and we have the awesome antics of Rick Jones?

[ivesaidway2much]

It's not awful. Maybe slightly worse than Civil War's, though it's had less outright contradictions thus far. I can see how you'd like it but how can ANYONE say there are no big holes when the timeline doesn't match up and we have the awesome antics of Rick Jones?I don't know that either Rick Jones or the arena are huge holes. If anything, I would say that Rick Jones is being use to make reasonable estimates of how much time has passed between events. Otherwise we have no idea how much time passes between any of the fights. For instance, how much time passed between the end of Black Bolt's butt whooping and the Hulk's ultimatum? How do you know? How much time passed between the end of the Avengers fight and the start of the FF one? How much time passed between the end of FF fight and the little chat with Rick? I'm not sure if there is anyway of knowing.

But if we assume, Rick flew from Vegas, we now know it must have taken AT LEAST 4-6 hours between the end of the IM fight and the Hulk's conversation with Rick. There's even a saving a bunch of random civilians montage in Inc. Hulk to fast forward from the Iron Man fight to the Hercules fight. It seems to me that Pak is going out of his way to leave the timeline a little fuzzy to accomadate the tie-ins. There is the approximate 24 hour ultimatum to fit in HfH and WWH: X-men. And there are the indefinite starts and finishes to battles to fit in A:I, Ant man, Inc Hulk, and eventually Punisher. At this point, the timeline can still reasonably work.

[Magneto Rocks]

I don't know that either Rick Jones or the arena are huge holes. If anything, I would say that Rick Jones is being use to make reasonable estimates of how much time has passed between events.

How on EARTH does that work out? We know, beyond doubt, Rick is in Vegas in the Iron Man/Hulk fight. We know beyond doubt that Hulk fights the Avengers in MINUTES after this fight. And we know that Black Panther barely has time to tell Reed they're all down before, within 3 minutes, Hulk is there.

Now either it took the Hulk and the Warbound about 6 hours to drag the bodies of the FF back to the arena, assuming Rick manages to board a plane within minutes of seeing the IM fight, then get off the plane, then convince people to let him into the combat zone, then find the Hulk, all very very quickly, or else there's a huge disconnect.

Otherwise we have no idea how much time passes between any of the fights. For instance, how much time passed between the end of Black Bolt's butt whooping and the Hulk's ultimatum?

That's simple enough, we can say it was some hours because of Iron Man #19.

How do you know? How much time passed between the end of the Avengers fight and the start of the FF one? How much time passed between the end of FF fight and the little chat with Rick? I'm not sure if there is anyway of knowing.

The former seems a very clear one- the Avengers are JUST down and Black Panther is just commenting on it when the Hulk appears. So we can assume they throw down the Initiative kids very fast and leave them for others to take back, since they aren't even ON the monitor when Panther tells Reed the Avengers are down- and this is like 2 minutes before Hulk arrives. But again, are you suggesting Hulk drags the FF around for a few hours?

But if we assume, Rick flew from Vegas, we now know it must have taken AT LEAST 4-6 hours between the end of the IM fight and the Hulk's conversation with Rick. There's even a saving a bunch of random civilians montage in Inc. Hulk to fast forward from the Iron Man fight to the Hercules fight.

But that doesn't make any sense at all. I mean even if we assume Rick got a plane within seconds and landed an inch away from the Hulk, that's saying it took 6 hours to take down the Avengers and the FF, which it clearly did not. And in reality we're looking at more of an 8 hour window for Rick to arrive, all things considered. At the least. It's a pretty big plot hole.

It seems to me that Pak is going out of his way to leave the timeline a little fuzzy to accomadate the tie-ins. There is the approximate 24 hour ultimatum to fit in HfH and WWH: X-men. And there are the indefinite starts and finishes to battles to fit in A:I, Ant man, Inc Hulk, and eventually Punisher. At this point, the timeline can still reasonably work.

No, it already starts to contradict itself. I simply can see nowhere before the end of the army fight for Hulk to take time to make the great stone arena and get security there. It doesn't work. Now it's not an absolutely catastrophic loss and it's not going to ruin the story or anything, but it certainly doesn't make sense.

[ivesaidway2much]

How on EARTH does that work out? We know, beyond doubt, Rick is in Vegas in the Iron Man/Hulk fight. We know beyond doubt that Hulk fights the Avengers in MINUTES after this fight. And we know that Black Panther barely has time to tell Reed they're all down before, within 3 minutes, Hulk is there.How do you know how much time it took from the end of the Avengers fight to the start of the FF fight?

That's simple enough, we can say it was some hours because of Iron Man #19.Like I said a fuzzy amount of time.

The former seems a very clear one- the Avengers are JUST down and Black Panther is just commenting on it when the Hulk appears. So we can assume they throw down the Initiative kids very fast and leave them for others to take back, since they aren't even ON the monitor when Panther tells Reed the Avengers are down- and this is like 2 minutes before Hulk arrives. But again, are you suggesting Hulk drags the FF around for a few hours?The Avengers are down, but we don't know how long the fight really took. Ms. Marvel is still talking when the comic switches to the panel of FF building the machinel, and Spider Woman is still fighting back. Heck, we don't even know if Wonder-man or Spider-man were knocked out yet. Spider-man especially. Since his body has moved a significant distance from the time of his fight with Elloe, till the time when he appears on Reed's screen. How do you know how much time the fight took? What evidence do you have? Beyond your assumptions.

But that doesn't make any sense at all. I mean even if we assume Rick got a plane within seconds and landed an inch away from the Hulk, that's saying it took 6 hours to take down the Avengers and the FF, which it clearly did not. And in reality we're looking at more of an 8 hour window for Rick to arrive, all things considered. At the least. It's a pretty big plot hole. That's why I said AT LEAST 4-6 hours (because I had no idea how long the flight would take).

[Magneto Rocks]

How do you know how much time it took from the end of the Avengers fight to the start of the FF fight?

Like I said a fuzzy amount of time.

Because Black Panther outright says "And now he's smashed the Avengers," while showing Reed a picture of the Avengers having just been downed. Unless you're suggesting Hulk waited for four hours and BP declined to mention this to Reed, it seems very very very clear that Hulk goes straight to the Baxter Building within minutes.

The Avengers are down, but we don't know how long the fight really took. Ms. Marvel is still talking when the comic switches to the panel of FF building the machinel, and Spider Woman is still fighting back. Heck, we don't even know if Wonder-man or Spider-man were knocked out yet. How do you know how much time the fight took? What evidence do you have?

...You're seriously going to attempt to use the argument that it took the Hulk and his Warbound four hours to take down the Avengers? Not only do we have the FF bit as proof, but there's more. In Avengers: The Initiative #4 the cadets see Stark Tower fall, very close to them. They then have a pep talk and immediately run there- by the time they get there, all the Avengers are down. So now are you going to try to claim it took them four hours to run there?

It's a plot hole. That's what it is. We can explain it away, they might retcon it, we can give a no-prize explanation but that's what it is, a giant plot hole.

[ivesaidway2much]

Because Black Panther outright says "And now he's smashed the Avengers," while showing Reed a picture of the Avengers having just been downed. Unless you're suggesting Hulk waited for four hours and BP declined to mention this to Reed, it seems very very very clear that Hulk goes straight to the Baxter Building within minutes.



...You're seriously going to attempt to use the argument that it took the Hulk and his Warbound four hours to take down the Avengers? Not only do we have the FF bit as proof, but there's more. In Avengers: The Initiative #4 the cadets see Stark Tower fall, very close to them. They then have a pep talk and immediately run there- by the time they get there, all the Avengers are down. So now are you going to try to claim it took them four hours to run there?I never suggested any exact amount of time it took for the Warbound to take the Avengers. If anything, Avengers: Initiative proves there was at least some passage of time between the end of the Avengers fight and the start of the F6's, but then again so does WWH #2 as the Warbound apparently stopped to get some kind of hoverdisc before they went after the FF. I'm merely pointing out that we don't know how much time passed between the individual events that occured. We don't know what happened in between the time the Hulk beat the Avengers and when he defeated the F6 or when he collected all his fallen victims or when he met up with Rick. And I think it was done intentionally.

[Harding Prime]

It's not awful. Maybe slightly worse than Civil War's, though it's had less outright contradictions thus far. I can see how you'd like it but how can ANYONE say there are no big holes when the timeline doesn't match up and we have the awesome antics of Rick Jones?

I think it is doing better with holes then Civil War ever did, especially with times as well. But I am only really reading the main book and not IH.

[stingerman]

Yeah, there are some giant "out"s being given.


Well, thats pretty consistent with Marvel! ;)

[gravling]

i picked the latter 'consistency? ha ha' option

hulk? take down black bolt?

that's funny

the trouble i have with planet hulk is that we're expected to suspend belief in what we know to be true - taht any NUMBER of these heroes the hulk has taken down could have taken the hulk down with not a great deal of effort.

it's bullsh*t.

[ivesaidway2much]

i picked the latter 'consistency? ha ha' option

hulk? take down black bolt?

that's funny

the trouble i have with planet hulk is that we're expected to suspend belief in what we know to be true - taht any NUMBER of these heroes the hulk has taken down could have taken the hulk down with not a great deal of effort.

it's bullsh*t.Without a great deal of effort?