Who's THE GREATEST Super-Villian in Marvel History?

[Webslinger12]

I would have to say Doctor Doom, here's one reason, he probably battled all the greatest Super-Heroes in the history of Marvel. 'NUFF SAID!

[xarathos]

Joe Quesada!

HAHAHA! I had to do it. It was too easy.:evilsmile

[Rere]

Joe Quesada!

HAHAHA! I had to do it. It was too easy.:evilsmile

You certainly beat me to it. :p

[Thursaiz]

Since this is the Spider-Man board, I'll have to say the Green Goblin.

On a complete MU scale...probably a tie between Doom and Mephisto. One is an evil genius, and the other is villain-incarnate.

[The Confessor]

Dr. Doom without a doubt.

All living things tremble before the might of Dr. Doom!

[Decepticons_Rule]

Currently, that honor belongs to Iron Man.

All time:

1. Doctor Victor Von Doom
2. Magneto
3. Kang the Conqueror

[Dawidos]

The Green Goblin with regard to Spider-Man. Nobody has destroyed Spider-man life like he has.

With regard to the Marvel Comics universe I would say Doctor Doom and the Red Skull. Two great embodiment of evil.

[KirkWarren]

Thanos was probably the greatest threat to the universe when he was alive, with or without the Infinity Gauntlet.

For Spider-man, Hobgoblin has always been my pick for best villain. I am talking the original, under the care of Roger Stern. Once Stern left and the character became a joke revealed as Ned Leeds, ceremoniously killed off and replaced by an inferior version, all hope was lost for the character. Most only associate Hobby with Macendale these days and its a shame. I found Hobby a much better mystery villain than Norman ever was. He also wasnt insane in so much as GG was, but retained all the power and strength and refined the goblin motif to perfection.

[Magneto Rocks]

Doom. Sure Thanos is a greater "threat to the universe", but at the end of the day, Doom's just a MUCH better villain.


For Spidey, Osborn without question.

[Rere]

In terms of Spider-Man, I'd go with the Green Globlin too.

He's far from being my favorite, but I think he earned this merit just for the sheer AMOUNT of incarnations and successors we've seen going though Spider-Man history during the years. I mean, since after the original Globin (Norman Osborn) we had other FOUR Green Goblins (Harry Osborn, Bart Hamilton, Phil Urich, and a nobody's clone!), FOUR HobGoblins (Roderick Kingsley, 'Lefty' Donovan, Ned Leeds and Jason Macendale), ONE DemoGlobin and the infamous Grey Goblin …

And after reading all Spidey comics a few times, I've come to two important conclusions regarding the story:

1. Writers just LOVE to create new renderings of the Green Goblin!

That's cool! I mean, now that Spidey will be single and all that, they could come up with another Goblin. This time a ... uh… let's see … a PIMP Goblin! Take advantage that Spidey is once again hip, appealing to young readers and probably horny and create Team-Up stories for those two hitting the NYC night! Jackpot and The Hypno Hustler could do another Team-Up as well.

2. Writers just LOVE to throw people out of bridges in this comic!

George Washington, Brooklyn, Queensborough …. You pick! If there is a bridge in NYC, you can bet someone from a Spider-Man book already felled from it. Usually MJ. But for flashback scenes Gwen Stacy is always the choosen one. Or her clone. Or daughter. Not that they are that discriminating either, since we had suicidals too.
It's just their 'thing', I suppose. Bridges. :confused:

[necrouser]

I have read many Spiderman comics and have a few favorite villians but I have to say I cant really think of one inparticular. Granted there are some greats out there. I just cant think of anyone that stands out. My friend would say Venom. But Venom is just a power house villian not a menacing one. Spiderman himself is his own villian if you think about it: Death of Uncle Ben, Aunt May near death or dead every 75 or so comics, givin birth to countless villians, ect.

[KirkWarren]

I have read many Spiderman comics and have a few favorite villians but I have to say I cant really think of one inparticular. Granted there are some greats out there. I just cant think of anyone that stands out. My friend would say Venom. But Venom is just a power house villian not a menacing one. Spiderman himself is his own villian if you think about it: Death of Uncle Ben, Aunt May near death or dead every 75 or so comics, givin birth to countless villians, ect.

Early appearances of Venom made him very menacing. His eventual overuse and appearances in every comic killed any impact he had.

[Omega Alpha]

Shouldn't this topic be moved to the MU forum?

Anyway, while not necessarily my favorites, Green Goblin is THE Spider-Man villain, and Doom the big MU villain.

[Chris N]

The correct answer is Dr. Doom.

The correct runner-up is Magneto.

Then I'd be willing to hear debate.

Or just let Dr. Octopus, Galactus, Thanos and Red Skull duke it out.

[pimp1911]

Dr.Doom
Magneto
Iron Man Lol.

[Webslinger12]

[QUOTE=Thursaiz;5409258]Since this is the Spider-Man board, I'll have to say the Green Goblin.




Sorry, I meant to put it on Marvel Universe, but are right, The Green Goblin is Spidey's greatest foe.

[z0mbie_aut0pil0t]

Magneto for sure.

[Capt USA]

I don't think there is really any doubt as to who is Marvels best Villain (Dr Doom) and even their second best villain (Magneto) as both of these guys have enough dimension to their character to make them interesting in pretty much any usage.



The debate really starts with the third spot, Green Goblin, Venom, Punisher, Red Skull, Kingpin, Kang, Ultron, Apocalypse, Mephisto and Thanos probably round out the rest of the arguments. Everyone would have a personal favorite etc, and guys like Annihilus have had at least one great epic that points they could be a big gun, but because of marvels long history and very few 'reboots', the better villains have had multiple storylines where they kicked butt. And almost all the villains on the above list have had a 'redemption' story where you got a strong connection to their point of view which adds depth to their character.


I feel Red Skull is the purest evil character in the marvel universe(that is used frequently enough)

I think of either the Green Goblin or Kingpin as the best arch villain who is useful for a short series (Kang, Ultron and Thanos all require overreaching long story arcs to do them justice)

Punisher is a great villain because there are some people that think he is a hero. I mean a psychopath that thinks he is doing good by denying anyone the ability to redeem themselves is a villain.

I can remember a time when it appeared that Venom would become the best new villain in 20 years and then he got overexposed and cloned(carnage---biggest joke of a character not named Sentry) Venom was an example of how a "clone" villain could actually work. (by clone I mean a character with similar if not same abilities and a somewhat common origin)


Thanos is of course Darkseid done right.


and then my personal favorite villain is Taskmaster, (ignore that limited series and all appearances in cable and deadpool) this is a villain with incredible potential as long as he is kept as a second in command role, not as the mastermind.

[marty is ruling]

I pretty much agree with what the majority has said.

Dr. Doom is the greatest villain in the Marvel Universe.

Here is a guy who could have taken over the universe if it weren't for his arrogance. I've never seen a hero or another villain in any comic book who is as resourceful as Victor Von Doom.

I'd like to see Doom used a lot better than he has been.

[Jack]

Spider-Man is the greatest villain. After I established this premise, I discovered three separate and unrelated answers for this, which I shall proceed to post in no particular order.

1) He's fought more heroes more often than any villain!
2) Don't you read the Daily Bugle?!
3) He's the greatest villain because just being the greatest hero wasn't enough, he had to spill on over into the villain rankings too, that's how great he is.

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm just stunned no one has yet said Iron Man.

[DDM]

Thanos
Sir Jim Jaspers
the Fury
the Vixen & Slaymaster
the Shadow King
Apocalypse
the Hellfire Club
Doctor Doom
Magneto
Green Goblin
Red Skull

[Citizen V]

Since for a long time after Marvel first started,it's main comic the Fantastic Four..had Dr.Doom as the greatest villain.But thinking about others,i would say the Red Skull,Magneto or Loki.

Joe Quesada!

I would agree with that.

[Diablito]

Magneto, Dr Doom, Loki.



And Satan. He's the villain of everything.

[Babylon23]

M.O.D.O.K! All must bow before the awesome giant head of M.O.D.O.K!

Actually, as much as I love M.O.D.O.K., it's obvious that Doom is Marvel's greatest villain.

[Dr. Chaos]

I'm just stunned no one has yet said Iron Man.


Currently, that honor belongs to Iron Man.
There we are.

[Gargus]

For me its a damn hard choice between dr doom and thanos.

I just cant pick one. When they are written good you cant beat em.

[sabongero]

I don't think there is really any doubt as to who is Marvels best Villain (Dr Doom) and even their second best villain (Magneto) as both of these guys have enough dimension to their character to make them interesting in pretty much any usage.



The debate really starts with the third spot, Green Goblin, Venom, Punisher, Red Skull, Kingpin, Kang, Ultron, Apocalypse, Mephisto and Thanos probably round out the rest of the arguments. Everyone would have a personal favorite etc, and guys like Annihilus have had at least one great epic that points they could be a big gun, but because of marvels long history and very few 'reboots', the better villains have had multiple storylines where they kicked butt. And almost all the villains on the above list have had a 'redemption' story where you got a strong connection to their point of view which adds depth to their character.


I feel Red Skull is the purest evil character in the marvel universe(that is used frequently enough)

I think of either the Green Goblin or Kingpin as the best arch villain who is useful for a short series (Kang, Ultron and Thanos all require overreaching long story arcs to do them justice)

Punisher is a great villain because there are some people that think he is a hero. I mean a psychopath that thinks he is doing good by denying anyone the ability to redeem themselves is a villain.

I can remember a time when it appeared that Venom would become the best new villain in 20 years and then he got overexposed and cloned(carnage---biggest joke of a character not named Sentry) Venom was an example of how a "clone" villain could actually work. (by clone I mean a character with similar if not same abilities and a somewhat common origin)


Thanos is of course Darkseid done right.


and then my personal favorite villain is Taskmaster, (ignore that limited series and all appearances in cable and deadpool) this is a villain with incredible potential as long as he is kept as a second in command role, not as the mastermind.

APPLAUSE !!! Capt USA great insightful post.

I love Taskmaster, especially when he would fight Captain America back in the good old days. His recent battle with Deadpool in the Cab;e/Deadpool comic book was a great match-up as well.

On a separate note, I just wanted to ask you if you can add more insight as to why you think Thanos is Darkseid done right ? Thanks for your time.

[Monty_Cristo]

there is no greatest; only most popular. Doom and Magneto are the most well-known. Red Skull and Green Goblin are up there, as well. but you still must include guys like Dracula and the Devil.

[Nyssane]

Poundcakes.

[Babylon23]

Thanos is of course Darkseid done right.

I'd say Darkseid by Kirby is Darkseid done right. Despite their similar appearance, involvement in cosmic stories and Starlin basing Thanos' design on Darkseid, I think Darkseid and Thanos are actually very different characters with different motivations and goals.

[Omega Alpha]

I'd say Darkseid by Kirby is Darkseid done right. Despite their similar appearance, involvement in cosmic stories and Starlin basing Thanos' design on Darkseid, I think Darkseid and Thanos are actually very different characters with different motivations and goals.

Does Darkseid wants to bang Death? If not, they are very different.

[Maestro]

It's Carnage. Except no substitutes

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Carnagemarvel.jpg

[overcomebyfumes]

Dark Squirrel-Girl, in the upcoming "Dark Squirrel-Girl Saga".

pax.

[TheMadTitan]

Its Thanos, Doom is awesome and is kind of 'Earths Thanos' but hes not no.1. Thanos has more consistantly been a threat to the entire universe than probably anyone else. He has took people down soooooo much higher up the food chain than him. Also it takes more than the Fantastic 4 to take him out ;) !

[overcomebyfumes]

Thanos turned Galactus into a weapon. For that alone, Thanos should be #1.

pax.

[CapnCaveman]

Turner D. Century - He's got high tech gadgets AND a right wing moral agenda. It's like fighting Dick Cheney if he had a handle-bar moustache and rode a flying bicycle.

[leebrown1990]

Dr Doom or Apocalypse.
I would of said magneto but then again in new x-men he basically had a lot of his remaining dignity stripped away (damn you Morrison). Although to be serious I still loved his run on x-men, things need shaking up a bit once in a while.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Iron Man is the top villian right now. Dr. Doom is the top villian at Marvel while Magneto is usually tied with Spider-Man as the best all around character in Marvel. But Magneto hasn't been a "villian" since 2001. So his status doesn't work anymore...in the least year, he's been more honorable than Iron Man and the Hulk combined.

Thanos is a very protected character. His fans love the fact that he never loses and uses that as justification to claim he's the THREAT of Marvel when he usually just stays in the cosmic books at best.

[darkhawk76]

hmm after Dr Doom the list is endless, based on personal preference

I'd have Dr Ock over Green Goblin any day of the week as Spidey's top villian

for 616 in general I'd go along with Beyonder's reasoning and not think of Magneto as a true villian per se, just very misguided in his actions

imo - Red Skull, Loki, Thanos and Kingpin are the guys fighting out for Doom's No 2 :D

[Magneto Rocks]

I'd say Darkseid by Kirby is Darkseid done right. Despite their similar appearance, involvement in cosmic stories and Starlin basing Thanos' design on Darkseid, I think Darkseid and Thanos are actually very different characters with different motivations and goals.

True to an extent. Darkseid by Simonson or Darkseid by Kirby or even DArkseid in the cartoon is Darkseid done right.

And when compared to Darkseid done right, Thanos doesn't stand a prayer. :p

Thanos is a very protected character. His fans love the fact that he never loses

Thor volume 2 #25 Thor gives him a massive beat down and nearly kill him.

[agirlyman]

1. Thanos
2. Wanda Maximoff
3. Dark Phoenix
2. Doom

[Wild Card13]

1. Magneto-I put Magneto above Doom because I find Mags to be a more complex character. The man is a villain, no denying it, but he also has a Messiah complex about his villainy-he's not doing these things for selfish gain or to satisfy his ego (well, mostly). He honestly thinks he is the only one who can save his people from the problems they face, and he believes his way is the only way to go about it.

2. Dr. Doom-Of course these guys will always have a 1-2 finish, it's just debatable who goes where. I put Doom down here because I don't think Doom has as many layers to his character as Magneto. Also, it is worth mentioning that while Doom is very often defeated by the Fantastic Four, Magneto has taken on entire teams of X-Men by himself and won. Not that sheer power means awesome villainy, but such a fact gives Magneto a huge boost in the "Ability to destroy his enemies" category.

3. Kingpin-Wilson Fisk is corruption incarnate, an almost Satanic character. He has all the material wealth in the world, enough to get whatever he wants. Essentially, he and Norman Osborne could combine to be Marvel's version of Lex Luthor. While Fisk might not have any superpowers, his mastery of material wealth and his talent for corruption make him a formidable villain.

4. The Red Skull-As someone said earlier, he is perhaps the only truly pure evil villain in the Marvel Universe. It's not because he's a psychopath, it's not because he has something to prove-this guy is really just evil for the sake of being evil. Normally I hate villains like him, but they fix what would be a glaring character problem by matching him up against Captain America, that perfect icon of idealism. Brubaker's doing some brilliant things with him right now.

5. Sinister-The quintessential schemer, with all of his wheels turning within wheels. I swear, he probably has a connection with any major mutant at some point in their lives. Despite being created by Apocalypse, his feats have far outshone his master's (I find Apocalypse to be a complete joke). In particular, his Marauders are perhaps the deadliest enemy the X-Men have ever faced, and Sinister himself has taken on entire teams of X-men before and held his own. Though he lacks the complexity that makes Magneto the best X-villain, he's a great character nonetheless.

Honorable Mention: Bullseye-Beyond his cool but subtle power, I have a soft spot for Bullseye because out of all the villains in the Marvel Universe, he is the one who has the most fun with being a villain. Whenever you see Bullseye, he's almost always smiling, no matter what act of villainy he's committing. And unlike almost every other villain the Marvel Universe, he's never had any inclination towards heroism. He is a completely irredeemable monster, and it's obvious he's loving every moment of it.

[Magneto Rocks]

Some very nice depth there, Wild Card. The only thing I want to say is this- Doctor Doom's huge character flaw is his ego. You mention he's been beaten by the FF many times and that's true, but it's all about ego. He could have destroyed them a thousand times over if he wasn't so vain- how many times has he gained unimaginable cosmic power now? But he has had them at his mercy dozens of times and was never content, because he has such an obacene inferiority complex. I think he KNOWS he's inferior to Richards, and that's what drives and motivates his hatred, and that's why he is a nice complex character. He KNOWS Reed is smarter and he absolutely cannot stand that knowledge and spends his entire life trying to make Richards acknowledge HIS superiority to appease an ego the size of Jupiter. That's my interpretation of Victor Von Doom- that he hasn't killed his foes isn't due to weakness, it's all about his ego.

You're right though in saying Magneto's more complex- I'd go so far as to say he's one of the most complex "villains" in any form of media or literature. (Though incidentally, if you haven't, read "Books of Doom". Because it fleshes out Doom immeasurably, and also because it's unspeakably awesome)

[Mister Mets]

Depending on when you ask me, either Magneto or Doctor Doom.

[Monty_Cristo]

Some very nice depth there, Wild Card. The only thing I want to say is this- Doctor Doom's huge character flaw is his ego. You mention he's been beaten by the FF many times and that's true, but it's all about ego. He could have destroyed them a thousand times over if he wasn't so vain- how many times has he gained unimaginable cosmic power now? But he has had them at his mercy dozens of times and was never content, because he has such an obacene inferiority complex. I think he KNOWS he's inferior to Richards, and that's what drives and motivates his hatred, and that's why he is a nice complex character. He KNOWS Reed is smarter and he absolutely cannot stand that knowledge and spends his entire life trying to make Richards acknowledge HIS superiority to appease an ego the size of Jupiter.


eh, i totally disagree. Doom with an inferiority complex? ha! Doom fully believes himself to be smarter than Reed. his vendetta boils down to Reed catching him making a mistake. he hurt Doom's pride. otherwise, Doom considers him to be an inferior; just like everyone else. the relationship is something that Doom has attempted to move past several times in his life as well; by getting Reed to admit his superiority. it's a pet project.

[sabongero]

Before his retcon, I would say The Beyonder. And up to a point before his power was retconned as well, Owen Reese, the Molecule Man.

[Toku King]

Overall? It's a tie between Dr. Doom and Green Goblin, followed by Magneto.
Doom and Goblin have left some of the biggest marks in all of fiction.

Dr. Doom has not only taken over the world numerous times, but has taken on almost every superhero Marvel has to offer with glorious results.

The Green Goblin took villainy to a brand new level, and led the way for almost 50% of Marvel's villains after him. He is one of the first supervillains to mix in intellect and power perfectly, and that alone made him "one of Marvel's biggest villains during my run", as said by Stan Lee.
The personalizing of his rivalry of Spider-Man only kept him up there, which he already was without it. He put himself in comic history by doing things only few dared to do, or were smart enough to pull off.

[ivesaidway2much]

Honorable Mention: Bullseye-Beyond his cool but subtle power, I have a soft spot for Bullseye because out of all the villains in the Marvel Universe, he is the one who has the most fun with being a villain. Whenever you see Bullseye, he's almost always smiling, no matter what act of villainy he's committing. And unlike almost every other villain the Marvel Universe, he's never had any inclination towards heroism. He is a completely irredeemable monster, and it's obvious he's loving every moment of it.Well said. This is exactly why he is my favorite villain. I watch him decide to kill a family of three because he wants the little kid's popsicle, and it brings a smile to my face. His joy at doing evil is just infectious. How can anyone not love a character like that?

[Fatguy]

Its a hard choice for me, between Magneto, Dr. Doom, and Thanos. I love Bullseye, Sabertooth, and pretty much every Spider-Man villain as well.

But my choice goes to Magneto. Pre-drugged out Morrison Magneto anyways.

[Wild Card13]

Quite. Morrison's character, Xorneto, doesn't count.

[PatchMadripoor]

Dr. Victor von Doom, without a doubt, is the GREATEST villian.

Nobody has caused more awe and wonder and outright great moments than Doom.

[Mikl C]

I'd say Kang. He pretty much destroyed the WORLD AND BLEW UP WASHINGTON!

[escapegoat]

M.O.D.O.K! All must bow before the awesome giant head of M.O.D.O.K!

Actually, as much as I love M.O.D.O.K., it's obvious that Doom is Marvel's greatest villain.

M.O.D.O.K. will now kill you for changing your answer, especially since you were right to begin with.... :p

My answer is definitely M.O.D.O.K., though I'm sure he'll still have me killed anyways for even voting for him...

No one kills as effieciently as M.O.D.O.K.!

[TotalWorldDomination]

Doom. Followed by Doom from the past. Followed by Doom from the future. Followed by Doom from any alternate timelines or potential alternate timelines. Followed by regular Doom again.

After exausting all other permintations of Doom, we can move on to Magento, the Green Goblin, Apoycalpse, Mr. Sinister, Kang, Thanos and the Red Skull (not nessicarily in that order).

Then you go back to just saying Doom over and over and over again.

EDIT- Do you count Galactus? I would'nt (whole "he's a force of nature" thing") but if you do he comes in after doom from the past and before doom from the future.

[Magneto Rocks]

eh, i totally disagree. Doom with an inferiority complex? ha! Doom fully believes himself to be smarter than Reed. his vendetta boils down to Reed catching him making a mistake. he hurt Doom's pride. otherwise, Doom considers him to be an inferior; just like everyone else. the relationship is something that Doom has attempted to move past several times in his life as well; by getting Reed to admit his superiority. it's a pet project.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Now if you were to ASK Doom, of course he'd say he was superior. But I think deep down, in his heart of hearts, he KNOWS Reed is superior. He won't let himself believe it, if he were asked he'd laugh in scorn and deny it, he would do ANYTHING to believe it wasn't true, he's deluded himself into thinking it isn't. But deep down, he knows, and that's why he hates him so much.

Doom. Followed by Doom from the past. Followed by Doom from the future. Followed by Doom from any alternate timelines or potential alternate timelines. Followed by regular Doom again.

After exausting all other permintations of Doom, we can move on to Magento, the Green Goblin, Apoycalpse, Mr. Sinister, Kang, Thanos and the Red Skull (not nessicarily in that order).

Then you go back to just saying Doom over and over and over again.

Tellin' ya. You're just me. Alternate-timeline me, cloned me, whatever. Me. :p

Oh God, or am I the clone?

Only one way to find out! Who will disintegrate when we die!?

[StoneGold]

I'd say Kang. He pretty much destroyed the WORLD AND BLEW UP WASHINGTON!

These days, doesn't that make him a hero?

[Magneto Rocks]

These days, doesn't that make him a hero?

BA DUM DUM CHISH!

[StoneGold]

BA DUM DUM CHISH!

Oddly, I felt bad for typing that. Not so much because of dead politicians, but more because they said most of the politicians got out, so all that got killed was a lot of black people. Kurt Busiek doesn't care about black people.

[Mikl C]

LOL
Why did only black people die?
:s
Avengers weirds me out when George Bush shows up in it.

[Deep_Sleeper]

I've often felt that Magneto is the best villain comics has produced.

[StoneGold]

LOL
Why did only black people die?


Because most of the people who actually live in DC are African American.

[Mikl C]

O rly? I didn't know that.
What a RACIST Busiek is!!11!

[PatchMadripoor]

Wait, we're forgetting Mephisto.

[reta-winter soldier]

doom no doubt, magneto im not so sure there, the guy is a great character and all but in pure villian es im going to go with thanos and the red skull. damn the red skull for so much evil

[Webslinger12]

1. Dr. Doom
2. Magneto
3. Mephisto
4. Red Skull
5. Loki
6. Green Goblin
7. Kingpin
8. Mandarin
9. Dr. Octopus
10. J. Jonah Jameson!! No, maybe Super-Skrull?


Those are the top 10 for me (the awesome Webslinger!)

[Abomination]

Green Goblin, without a doubt

[Monty_Cristo]

Green Goblin, without a doubt

eh, just my opinion but i think the Goblin only came into his own very recently (like within the past few years). before that i just saw him as very weak and a bit of an underachiever when compared to the archenemies of other heroes. he's only half responsible for Gwen Stacy's death and that's his big contribution to the spider mythos.

[TonyJaymz03]

Dr. Doom, no question about it

I'm suprised he hasn't been the focus of a "big event" yet..forget the hulk, forget skrulls, the biggest danger in the Marvel U has been, always will be, Doom, because he is the only one who actually has a chance at winning

"Kneel before Doom"

[BeastieRunner]

Dr. Doom hands down.

Runners Up:
Thanos
Loki
Annihilus
Magneto
Red Skull

[Omega Alpha]

eh, just my opinion but i think the Goblin only came into his own very recently (like within the past few years). before that i just saw him as very weak and a bit of an underachiever when compared to the archenemies of other heroes. he's only half responsible for Gwen Stacy's death and that's his big contribution to the spider mythos.

What? He was the first villain to ever kill a hero's loved one and destroy his life as he knew it. He's achieved more than 99% of the villains, and first than everyone else. Oh, and after he stayed dead for 23 years, he killed Scarlet Spider.

[Monty_Cristo]

What? He was the first villain to ever kill a hero's loved one and destroy his life as he knew it. He's achieved more than 99% of the villains, and first than everyone else. Oh, and after he stayed dead for 23 years, he killed Scarlet Spider.

he never took over the world or even attempted it. the Kingpin has been more of a nuisance in Spider-man's world than the Goblin.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Thor volume 2 #25 Thor gives him a massive beat down and nearly kill him.

Nice try but Starlin retconned that into being a clone and Thanos fans WORLDWIDE threw a party that Mardi Gra would envy.

Some very nice depth there, Wild Card. The only thing I want to say is this- Doctor Doom's huge character flaw is his ego. You mention he's been beaten by the FF many times and that's true, but it's all about ego. He could have destroyed them a thousand times over if he wasn't so vain- how many times has he gained unimaginable cosmic power now? But he has had them at his mercy dozens of times and was never content, because he has such an obacene inferiority complex. I think he KNOWS he's inferior to Richards, and that's what drives and motivates his hatred, and that's why he is a nice complex character. He KNOWS Reed is smarter and he absolutely cannot stand that knowledge and spends his entire life trying to make Richards acknowledge HIS superiority to appease an ego the size of Jupiter. That's my interpretation of Victor Von Doom- that he hasn't killed his foes isn't due to weakness, it's all about his ego.

You're right though in saying Magneto's more complex- I'd go so far as to say he's one of the most complex "villains" in any form of media or literature. (Though incidentally, if you haven't, read "Books of Doom". Because it fleshes out Doom immeasurably, and also because it's unspeakably awesome)

The thing about Doom and Magnus is that Doom has BEATEN the FF with ease. He punked them out to no end in Unthinkable and it was Dr. Strange that was the key to them surviving. Magneto has beaten with the X-Men with incredible ease and of course a plot device usually shows up when he has utter victory to keep the Uncanny and X-Men lines going without Magneto becoming clan destine savior of mutantkind for eternity.

BTW, the speech Doom gave Richards in #499 is top 5 all time in comics just like the one Magneto gave in X-Men #3 to the X-Men is top 5 ever as well.

[Capt USA]

APPLAUSE !!! Capt USA great insightful post.

I love Taskmaster, especially when he would fight Captain America back in the good old days. His recent battle with Deadpool in the Cab;e/Deadpool comic book was a great match-up as well.

On a separate note, I just wanted to ask you if you can add more insight as to why you think Thanos is Darkseid done right ? Thanks for your time.

Darkseid originally was a great cosmic level threat character, as he was intended he rarely loss and even took some of his losses as setting up a bigger victory. Then DC decided to "Venom" him and put him in everything, where he was getting beat by the Atom. DC has used Darkseid in the same way that marvel uses Taskmaster, as a proof to a heroes ability to be great. Darkseid has over the last few years taken things personally which goes against his original concept. He is the great and powerful Darkseid but if he fails originally he accepted it an moved on, now he schemes revenge against superman/batman for besting him, Darkseid as a character is above that. I'm hoping the final crisis will again create a great Darkseid storyline, but for the record about 50% of Darkseid stories have been good-to-great the rest just haven't been well crafted (can't expect too much, DC writers have a history of inability to consistently accurately characterize their creations---although marvel allowing millar to write 616 cap shows they don't always do that good of a job either)


Thanos is kept away from the earth often enough that he doesn't get involved in petty matters where (outside of squirrel girl) a peon level character can defeat him, Spidey can't defeat thanos yet green arrow and atom can defeat Darkseid? (this would be like wasp beating thanos) Thanos succeeds enough of the time that his actions have longer term effects on the marvel universe. Thanos is just consistently better written as a villain than Darkseid.

Yes there are some bad thanos stories (although it does seem that many of those have been ret-conned out as 'clones') but his epics are usually done way better than Darkseids and usually have more of an impact.

[Eumenides]

Thanos!

Sorry, but Chronos didn't create an almost unstoppable being, Drax, to defeat Dr. Doom. And Eon wasn't waiting for 8 billion years for the arrival of Captain Marvel to defeat Magneto or the Red Skull. Thanos is the biggest villain ever, and the powes that be in the universe know that so well they had to take measures to make sure he didn't win. Did the Living Tribunal or Eternity ever lift a finger to stop Dr Doom? Did they ever even care?

[Xothermic]

The correct answer is Dr. Doom.

The correct runner-up is Magneto.

Then I'd be willing to hear debate.

Or just let Dr. Octopus, Galactus, Thanos and Red Skull duke it out.

That would be correct.

[Mikl C]

ultron is a contender.

[Magneto Rocks]

Nice try but Starlin retconned that into being a clone and Thanos fans WORLDWIDE threw a party that Mardi Gra would envy.

Bah. Sore losers.

The thing about Doom and Magnus is that Doom has BEATEN the FF with ease. He punked them out to no end in Unthinkable and it was Dr. Strange that was the key to them surviving. Magneto has beaten with the X-Men with incredible ease and of course a plot device usually shows up when he has utter victory to keep the Uncanny and X-Men lines going without Magneto becoming clan destine savior of mutantkind for eternity.

Oh certainly. But whereas there's usually a plot device or rational explanation for Magneto not just slaughtering the X-Men (The fact that he USUALLY wouldn't do so for one) for Doctor Doom, it's been the case nine times out of ten that he could have killed them if not for an ego the size of Mount St Helen.

Then again, without that ego, he wouldn't be Doom, so it's all good.

BTW, the speech Doom gave Richards in #499 is top 5 all time in comics just like the one Magneto gave in X-Men #3 to the X-Men is top 5 ever as well.

Absolutely agreed on both points. We may disagree on some things (Iron Man) but our views on Doctor Doom and Magneto seem to be marching lock step. I'd extend Doom's speech to not only his words to Richards himself but also to his family in captivity beforehand though.

Aaah... I miss Waid. But at least I can be reasonably sure of getting a fantastic Doom in Millar's run, if his UFF was anything to go buy.

[Omega Alpha]

he never took over the world or even attempted it. the Kingpin has been more of a nuisance in Spider-man's world than the Goblin.

Sinister never tried to take over the world and he's still one of the greatest villains easily. Kingpin too. And, no, no one cause more problems to Spidey than Norman. Nothing really tops killing the love of your life and then your "brother".

Bah. Sore losers.


So, Byrne retconning the Doom that was afraid of Storm because she can control the weather, even though he has no fear of Thor or the Silver Surfer, and let Arcade light a match on his armor is a great thing, but Starlin retconning Thanos jobbing to Thor is being a "sore loser"?:rolleyes:

[Magneto Rocks]

So, Byrne retconning the Doom that was afraid of Storm because she can control the weather, even though he has no fear of Thor or the Silver Surfer, and let Arcade light a match on his armor is a great thing, but Starlin retconning Thanos jobbing to Thor is being a "sore loser"?:rolleyes:

Hey, calm down. It was a joke. Though for the record, Thanis punked Thor before. This was souped up Thor.

[Webslinger12]

eh, just my opinion but i think the Goblin only came into his own very recently (like within the past few years). before that i just saw him as very weak and a bit of an underachiever when compared to the archenemies of other heroes. he's only half responsible for Gwen Stacy's death and that's his big contribution to the spider mythos.




I have to disagree with you on this one. You call the Green Goblin an underachiever compared to other heroes , well listen bud , Spider-Man's greatest foe was the Green Goblin. Are calling Spidey weak?

[StoneGold]

I have to disagree with you on this one. You call the Green Goblin an underachiever compared to other heroes , well listen bud , Spider-Man's greatest foe was the Green Goblin. Are calling Spidey weak?

Can he bench press a battleship?

[Cosmic Book Fan]

Personal Favorite: DOOM

Thanos must be disqualified because even if it was only out of pragmatism, he's helped save the universe too many times.

Annihilation has bumped Annilius up several spaces on the list.

The Supreme Inteligence should be pretty high on the list, (Kree-Skrull Wars) (Galactic Storm) (Maximum Security)

Ultron should be top 5 at least.

Kang might be disqualified because Immortus (his future self) so often helps beat him.

On a different theory, in the X-books, wouldn't it be Sinister and Apocolypse? Neither have ever REALLY been beaten even if they've suffered set-backs.


still, I say anyone who read the Counter-earth Doom Returns (or whatever it was called) has to give Doom props for coming from nothing to defeat the entire planet.

[Nefarius]

Difficult to choose who's the greatest villain in Marvel's history,but i can choose them on levels.

Worldwide greatest threat:Dr Doom,Magneto and Red Skull.
City-level threat:Kingpin(probably the best comic book crime lord)
Cosmic level:Thanos

[seeso]

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4610/modokmw3.jpg

M.O.D.O.K. will kill you all for this impudence!

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Bah. Sore losers.



Oh certainly. But whereas there's usually a plot device or rational explanation for Magneto not just slaughtering the X-Men (The fact that he USUALLY wouldn't do so for one) for Doctor Doom, it's been the case nine times out of ten that he could have killed them if not for an ego the size of Mount St Helen.

Then again, without that ego, he wouldn't be Doom, so it's all good.



Absolutely agreed on both points. We may disagree on some things (Iron Man) but our views on Doctor Doom and Magneto seem to be marching lock step. I'd extend Doom's speech to not only his words to Richards himself but also to his family in captivity beforehand though.

Aaah... I miss Waid. But at least I can be reasonably sure of getting a fantastic Doom in Millar's run, if his UFF was anything to go buy.

#499 is not in my possession now. Left it at my other house but I copied the text into a email just to make sure I would have that info on file and I read X-Men #3 yesterday since I haven't read it in half a year. Good times indeed. The Dr. Doom stuff is classic.. "A deep rooted insecurity that is well deserved." HAHAHAHA! It's perfect. It was wonderful. He set them up masterfully and only he could defeat himself. That's the catch 22 of his character though and it makes for excellent reading.


On a different theory, in the X-books, wouldn't it be Sinister and Apocolypse? Neither have ever REALLY been beaten even if they've suffered set-backs.

That's the EXCELLENT thing about Sinister. He always has the upper hand and NEVER takes a real loss. He got duped by Stryfe but he still didn't pay a price or answer to anyone. Apocalypse has. Everytime I see Sinister, I just shake my head when a X-man interacts with him..."When are they gonna make this guy pay for the Mutant Massacre?". It's just unintentionally funny like that at times. Sinister in Weapon X #14 was probably right behind the Doom Unthinkable prologue as comic book of the year.

[Lanowar]

Doom is the greatest villain of the Marvel universe but notable mentions go out to.

Kang
Magneto
Loki
Sinister (Despite what people think Apocalypse isn’t that fantastic)
Ultron
Thanos

And given recent events Annihilus gets a nod to.

The Mandarin has been dead too long to really be in the above group, hopefully his return will lead to something. The Leader is another example of this too of a character despite fans calling cool or the greatest villain ever he's just been MIA for far to long to have any real impact.

[Webslinger12]

Can he bench press a battleship?




What are you talking about ?

[Shellhead]

What are you talking about ?

In the Marvel Universe, benchpressing a battleship would be an impressive show of strength. Spider-man isn't in that league. Maybe he's the strongest hero in the comics you read, but Spidey isn't famous for his strength in the overall scheme of things, not the way Hulk, Collosus, Thor, or the Thing are. Sorry.

And face it, both Doctor Octupus and Green Goblin are small-time thugs compared to the arch-villains of the Marvel Universe. They never posed a threat to the entire planet like Doctor Doom and Magneto and Red Skull have, let alone the entire universe the way Thanos and Mephisto have. Doc Ock and Green Goblin never slaughtered an entire country the way Ultron did. And Green Goblin couldn't even take a punch from Luke Cage.

[Webslinger12]

I'm a newbie , read next post by webslinger12! Oh yeah , How do I delete my own posts?

[Webslinger12]

And face it, both Doctor Octupus and Green Goblin are small-time thugs compared to the arch-villains of the Marvel Universe. They never posed a threat to the entire planet like Doctor Doom and Magneto and Red Skull have, let alone the entire universe the way Thanos and Mephisto have. Doc Ock and Green Goblin never slaughtered an entire country the way Ultron did. And Green Goblin couldn't even take a punch from Luke Cage.[/QUOTE]



I didn't mean phisicaly "weak", I was using the word "weak" to replace the word skill. Sorry for not being specific. Anyway , I never said anything about Doc Ock and the only thing I said about Green Goblin is he's not an underachiever when compared to arch-enimies , he was Spidey's greatest enemy of all time. Can you agree with that?

[Webslinger12]

[QUOTE=Shellhead;5431562]In the Marvel Universe, benchpressing a battleship would be an impressive show of strength. Spider-man isn't in that league. Maybe he's the strongest hero in the comics you read, but Spidey isn't famous for his strength in the overall scheme of things, not the way Hulk, Collosus, Thor, or the Thing are. Sorry.


I know Spider-Man's not that strong

[BouffonVert72]

There is onlyyy ooone true Greatest Super-Villian in Marvel History ! The Grrreeeeeeen Gobliiiiine !

BV72 who/Hahahahahahaha ! :D

[Wally_West]

While I agree with Doom, I have to cast my vote to apocolypse...you dont just grow up with x-men without their arch-nemesis not making a mark on you.

now, i understand all the different ways that doom was a better villain than apocolypse, however, i'm just saying that in my opinions, apocolypse deserves and honorary mention.

[Deep_Sleeper]

I don't understand. How is Dr. Doom considered a better villain than Apocalypse.

Not antagonizing you, Wally West...I'm just curious. I've always read people on message board saying so and so is a lousy character and so and so is a great character.

Just out of curiousity, how is Dr. Doom considered a better villain than Apocalypse? Once again, this question isn't meant for Wally West to answer. If anyone can point me in a direction or state their case, I'd be really interested in reading it.

[Magneto Rocks]

I don't understand. How is Dr. Doom considered a better villain than Apocalypse.

Not antagonizing you, Wally West...I'm just curious. I've always read people on message board saying so and so is a lousy character and so and so is a great character.

Just out of curiousity, how is Dr. Doom considered a better villain than Apocalypse? Once again, this question isn't meant for Wally West to answer. If anyone can point me in a direction or state their case, I'd be really interested in reading it.

How is Doctor Doom a better villain than Apocalypse?

Read Fantastic Four #57-60
Failing that, read Fantastic Four #496-500
For the masterstroke, read Books of Doom 1-6.

There you go. :D

[DoctorDoom]

Von Doom of course.

[Shellhead]

I don't understand. How is Dr. Doom considered a better villain than Apocalypse.

Not antagonizing you, Wally West...I'm just curious. I've always read people on message board saying so and so is a lousy character and so and so is a great character.

Just out of curiousity, how is Dr. Doom considered a better villain than Apocalypse? Once again, this question isn't meant for Wally West to answer. If anyone can point me in a direction or state their case, I'd be really interested in reading it.

Apocalypse talks a good fight, but he never seems to accomplish anything impressive, except for that whole alternate reality Age of Apocalypse.

Doctor Doom has:

1. Conducted a successful coup to become King of Latveria. (Fantastic Four Annual #1)
2. Successfully conquered Earth twice. (Super-Villain Team-Up #14; Emperor Doom graphic novel)
3. Stolen the Silver Surfer's powers (Fantastic Four #57)
4. Invented the first time machine on Earth-616 (Fantastic Four #5)
5. Got Henry Kissinger to throw the Fantastic Four out of Latveria due to a diplomatic treaty with the United States. (Super-Villain Team-Up #6)
6. Hired Luke Cage for a spying mission for just $200. (Hero For Hire #8)
7. Rescued his mother's soul from Hell. (Triumph & Torment graphic novel)
8. Conquered Counter-Earth and re-named it Planet Doom.
9. Stolen Galactus' powers. (Secret Wars #10)
10. Stolen the Beyonder's powers. (Secret Wars #10)
11. Killed a lion with his bare hands and no superpowers. (Doom #1)
12. Becomes president of the United States in 2099. (Doom 2099 series)

Compared to that, what has Apocalypse done?

1. Killed Dracula, who didn't stay dead. (Apocalypse vs. Dracula #4)
2. Conquered Attilan, home of the Inhumans. (X-Factor #65)
3. Conquered North America in an alternate reality. (The Age of Apocalypse)

[NathanielEssex]

DDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!onezorz

[Deep_Sleeper]

Okay, so being a better villain means accomplishing something. That makes sense. I used to hate it when people would just say that someone's a sucky character.

I admit it, on a scale of henchmen to top rated villain, Apocalypse's accomplishments aren't as staggering as that of Dr. Doom.

[seekquaze]

I only took a brief look through this thread.

A lot of people are mentioning the same ones: Doom, Magneto, the Red Skull, Thanos, and Mephisto.

They all are great villains and personally I would probable rank either Doom, the Red Skull, or Mephisto up there or have the potential to be number one. Each one has their high showings and examples of being complete idiots.

But I think a lot of people are forgetting about Loki.

I know he mostly bothers Thor, but aside from causing the formation of the Avengers and the Acts of Vengence he has done some very dispicaple things in Thor titles and great schemes to boot. If you leave him out simply because he fights mainly Thor you have to leave out Magneto and the Red Skull because they mainly focus only on certain opponents.

[BeastieRunner]

Mephisto hasn't done much recently and I would love to see him make a come back soon to rip the MU a new one. He should be a contender but with villains stepping up in the cosmic MU (i.e. Annihilus conquering the whole Negative Zone, destroying the Klyn, killing off the Nova Corps, taking the Quantum Bands, killing ex-Herlads, capturing Galactus and the Silver Surfer, etc.) I think he's slowly dropping off the Top 10 in the scheme of things.

[mgs]

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4610/modokmw3.jpg

M.O.D.O.K. will kill you all for this impudence!

haha! LOL! :D

But Thanos is the correct answer you are all looking for. Doom is #2. Sinister, Apocalypse, Magneto. They get too involved in their petty dealings and are written as having too much 'deus' power. Doom is ruthless but plays by the rules. All Thanos wants to do is kill, everyone. THAT makes him the Greatest Villain.

[NathanielEssex]

haha! LOL! :D

All Thanos wants to do is kill, everyone. THAT makes him the Greatest Villain.

Dude, I hope that's not your only criteria for Thanos being the greatest. Cuz ANNIHILUS has that whole "everything must die" motive down pretty well.:D

[tony ingram]

If it's based on achievement, i would say Kang is probably the greatest. He has no real powers except his inventive genius, but he's still conquered Earth completely in several different timelines and centuries and managed to hold onto them. Only Earth 616 has beaten him, and never without a fight. Could Thanos or Apocalypse do that without their powers?

[Shellhead]

If it's based on achievement, i would say Kang is probably the greatest. He has no real powers except his inventive genius, but he's still conquered Earth completely in several different timelines and centuries and managed to hold onto them. Only Earth 616 has beaten him, and never without a fight. Could Thanos or Apocalypse do that without their powers?

Kang isn't really an inventor, just a skilled user of futuristic technology and a fierce warlord. If he was truly brilliant, he would be snuffing out Avengers by going back in time and killing their pregnant mothers. That would take out everybody except for Thor and a few special cases like Vision or Deathcry.

[DDM]

Kang isn't really an inventor, just a skilled user of futuristic technology and a fierce warlord. If he was truly brilliant, he would be snuffing out Avengers by going back in time and killing their pregnant mothers. That would take out everybody except for Thor and a few special cases like Vision or Deathcry.

Kang would just be creating alternate timelines even if he did those things. It would not change the Avengers he fought before.

[Shellhead]

Kang would just be creating alternate timelines even if he did those things. It would not change the Avengers he fought before.

That's how I understand Marvel time travel and dimensional travel. So unless Kang is historically supposed to eventually defeat the Avengers (time travel makes writing in the proper tense really weird), the best he can hope for is to create an alternative timeline where he beats the Avengers. Maybe Kang has gone insane after too many trips through the time stream?

[mcgaffer]

1. Dr. Doom.
2. Magneto.
3. Red Skull.
4. Mephisto.
5. Loki.
6. Thanos.
7. Bullseye.
8. Sabretooth.
9. Green Goblin.
10. Kang.

[Expletive Deleted]

Maybe Kang has gone insane after too many trips through the time stream?Or maybe he just likes a good fight. Killing the Avengers in their cribs wouldn't be very satisfying, after all.

[ADamiani]

Thanos turned Galactus into a weapon. For that alone, Thanos should be #1.

pax.

Pfffet.
Doom stole Galactus' lunch-- literally, stole his lunch right out from under him-- consumed his own private galaxy, and used it to bash the Beyonder's brains in. Advantage: von Doom.



----------------
A note:

Kang would place higher on the list, but he splits the vote with Immortus.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I only took a brief look through this thread.

A lot of people are mentioning the same ones: Doom, Magneto, the Red Skull, Thanos, and Mephisto.

They all are great villains and personally I would probable rank either Doom, the Red Skull, or Mephisto up there or have the potential to be number one. Each one has their high showings and examples of being complete idiots.

But I think a lot of people are forgetting about Loki.

I know he mostly bothers Thor, but aside from causing the formation of the Avengers and the Acts of Vengence he has done some very dispicaple things in Thor titles and great schemes to boot. If you leave him out simply because he fights mainly Thor you have to leave out Magneto and the Red Skull because they mainly focus only on certain opponents.

Magneto has conquered Hulk, the Defenders, the Avengers, FF, he took over Cap America's title for a issue when he spat on his arch enemy, Thor couldn't stop him, and he recently in his last power display embarassed the rest of the heroes on earth after all their tough talking of "killing him and his stupid kids". Wanda, being omnipotent, was the only thing left that stopped his vengenance after Pietro had to be put in his place. So I wouldn't relate a little guy like Red Skull to Magneto. The guy is so huge and popular that fans want to use him in video games and have endless debates on his character portrayal when he's misused by shaky writers like a Grant Morrison. Loki? I have never see him do anything worthwhile post Acts of Vengenace....he's been more of a joke character than anything big.

[tony ingram]

Kang isn't really an inventor, just a skilled user of futuristic technology and a fierce warlord. If he was truly brilliant, he would be snuffing out Avengers by going back in time and killing their pregnant mothers. That would take out everybody except for Thor and a few special cases like Vision or Deathcry.

But Kang lives for war. There'd be no challenge in that. And just to add to his case, when listing his achievements you have to remember thatt he is/was also Rama Tut, the Scarlet Centurion and Immortus. He began his career by totally conquering Egypt (not bad for a rookie), as the Centurion he once conquered the Squadron Supreme's Earth, and as Immortus, his future self rules the timestream itself, and has done for years. He basically gets more accomplished as he gets older. Doom never seems to learn from his mistakes.

[Shellhead]

But Kang lives for war. There'd be no challenge in that. And just to add to his case, when listing his achievements you have to remember thatt he is/was also Rama Tut, the Scarlet Centurion and Immortus. He began his career by totally conquering Egypt (not bad for a rookie), as the Centurion he once conquered the Squadron Supreme's Earth, and as Immortus, his future self rules the timestream itself, and has done for years. He basically gets more accomplished as he gets older. Doom never seems to learn from his mistakes.

I bet Doom never even acknowledges that he makes mistakes. He's so arrogant and strong-willed that he would rather go into complete denial than admit an error. Reed tried to point out a mistake in Victor's calculations when he tried to conduct that experiment in college. The resulting accident marred Doom's face and got him expelled, and yet he has always blamed Reed for that incident.

As for the Scarlet Centurion, I believe that there are multiple Scarlet Centurions. Kang might be the Scarlet Centurion who showed in Avengers Annual #2. But the one who conquered the future of the Squadron Supreme's Earth is a different one, because that's a completely different reality. And then there is Marcus, who is yet another Scarlet Centurion.

[Mister Mets]

Marvel's got the two best villains in comic books, but I'd have to go with Magneto. Doctor Doom's a close second.

[Shellhead]

Magneto has conquered Hulk, the Defenders, the Avengers, FF, he took over Cap America's title for a issue when he spat on his arch enemy, Thor couldn't stop him, and he recently in his last power display embarassed the rest of the heroes on earth after all their tough talking of "killing him and his stupid kids". Wanda, being omnipotent, was the only thing left that stopped his vengenance after Pietro had to be put in his place. So I wouldn't relate a little guy like Red Skull to Magneto. The guy is so huge and popular that fans want to use him in video games and have endless debates on his character portrayal when he's misused by shaky writers like a Grant Morrison. Loki? I have never see him do anything worthwhile post Acts of Vengenace....he's been more of a joke character than anything big.

When did Magneto beat the FF? Reed once tricked him with a plastic gun. And the first time Magneto met Doom, Doom slipped him a ruphie. When he clashed with the Defenders, Magneto literally ended up in diapers. And for a bad guy, Magneto spent a lengthy period of time leading the X-Men into battle, which has to cost him points in the bad guy ratings.

[Camron Amaya]

Loki deserves more respect you scoundrels.

[Shellhead]

Loki deserves more respect you scoundrels.

Early in Doctor Strange's sorcerous career, he managed to hold his own against Loki for a while, but finally retreated. I don't think that they've ever had a rematch, so that's one opponent that Strange has never defeated.

[Webslinger12]

I'm just stunned no one has yet said Iron Man.




Iron Man is a good guy , right? I don't understand.

[Jeff-E]

I'm going

Thanos
Doom
Thanos again
Grant Morrison (just for the whole Xorn debacle, and Magneto on drugs I just reread his final runs on Xmen and man o man was it bad)
Annihilation Wave
Mephisto
Loki
Kang

[tony ingram]

As for the Scarlet Centurion, I believe that there are multiple Scarlet Centurions. Kang might be the Scarlet Centurion who showed in Avengers Annual #2. But the one who conquered the future of the Squadron Supreme's Earth is a different one, because that's a completely different reality. And then there is Marcus, who is yet another Scarlet Centurion.

I know. But they are (except for Marcus) alternate versions of the same guy, so for the purposes of answering the original question, i'm considering them to be the same guy. Trying to work out even which individual version of Kang has done what just leads to confusion, i find.

[StoneGold]

Or maybe he just likes a good fight. Killing the Avengers in their cribs wouldn't be very satisfying, after all.

He's Kang the Conquerer, not Kang the Baby Assassin. Hell, the only reason he comes into conflict with the Avengers at all is because he wants to kick the snot out of them legit. Otherwise, he could avoid them completely.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

When did Magneto beat the FF? Reed once tricked him with a plastic gun. And the first time Magneto met Doom, Doom slipped him a ruphie. When he clashed with the Defenders, Magneto literally ended up in diapers. And for a bad guy, Magneto spent a lengthy period of time leading the X-Men into battle, which has to cost him points in the bad guy ratings.

Magneto beat everyone in Magneto War..the FF were useless. Doom got the drop on Magneto in that first issue but it was Doom who was left without his memory as Magneto declared victory as he walked away unharmed. The truth is if Doom had just been content with ruling the world instead of trying to prove he was Magneto's superior..it would of been a solid win instead of him getting embarassed in the matter he was.

The Defenders got punked out by Magneto...Hulk, Strange, all of them except Surfer since he was missing. It was Alpha who was the x-factor and saved them from doom. Not any Defender. And Magneto's gray factor in that he led the X-Men for a time after regretting his actions against Kitty Pryde was great character progression. It led to probably the greatest 3 issue run of the 90s in X-Men #1-3 which broke comic sales records worldwide.

[Capt USA]

Loki is getting disrespected because he is rarely written well. He's a petulant child half the time, other times he's a tremendous schemer. (and yes I realize that almost all villains are written bad at times) Loki is written as too small of a person to be honest. Here is a guy that has ability to defeat the avengers and yet most of his motivation is revenge against his brother instead of thinking bigger picture. He's basically the green goblin of Thor (and sorry but I don't think the green goblin is a great villain, he's a typical villain that every hero has at least one of, nothing special about him)


When a villains motivation is purely about his enemies, they are small villains in my opinion. The kingpin doesn't care about daredevil/spidey more than the fact that they get in his way, when he does act against them it's to make their life as miserable as they have made his life. That is a good villain, the green goblin? is just a guy that was pretty much put in the book to make spideys life a living hell, but really has no personality outside of existing as an enemy to spidey.

[nuclearman]

Thanos, Loki, Mephisto, Dormammu, Dr.Doom

would be my top five ... I will go Thanos just ahead of Loki .. who has the potential to be real bad ass if written well.

[jackolover]

Loki - you wouldn't let him deliver your baby, hey Sue?

(Doom has been softened of late, and can enter the USA as a traveller. This is no villain. This is a visiting monarch)

Sinister - I know very little about this guy, but he seems to have claws in everything, and he can be standing right in front of you, and you can't see him.

(Kang - he never has the balls to do the hard kill. He is a wimp. The only redeeming quality he has shown was when he manipulated Tony Stark to start killing Avengers. Otherwise, he has been written too soft, for someone who can defeat you, because he knows what you're going to do next).

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Sinister - I know very little about this guy, but he seems to have claws in everything, and he can be standing right in front of you, and you can't see him.

You need to catch up..it's been a fun ride so far. Just read Weapon X #14 and you will be hooked on Nathan Essex for life.

[Dracon]

Greatest here or in the Marvel Universe?

Here, no-one can beat Magneto. He has a major film coming out. Lex Luthor, Joker, Doom, Kang...no other comic book villain ever did anything close to it as far as I am aware.

Untill it either bombs or someone matches that, Magneto is tops.

[mgs]

Dude, I hope that's not your only criteria for Thanos being the greatest. Cuz ANNIHILUS has that whole "everything must die" motive down pretty well.:D

getting killed by annhililus would be like dying from a 4'x4' to the back of the head. getting killed by Thanos would be like someone who ties you down, punches through your chest and pulls out your still-beating heart, making sure you see it before you die. That's the difference! ;)

[Shellhead]

(Kang - he never has the balls to do the hard kill. He is a wimp. The only redeeming quality he has shown was when he manipulated Tony Stark to start killing Avengers. Otherwise, he has been written too soft, for someone who can defeat you, because he knows what you're going to do next).

Hmm. What if Kang is actually trapped by history? Maybe he knows from historical records that he never defeats the Avengers, ever. And yet he persists in attacking them, out of sheer stubbornness or even insanity. I would think that it would be a matter of historical record how the Avengers eventually die or disband. Otherwise, it makes sense that Kang would know when and how he succeeds and simply prepares for that one successful attack instead of wasting time on futile efforts.

[Expletive Deleted]

Hmm. What if Kang is actually trapped by history? Maybe he knows from historical records that he never defeats the Avengers, ever. And yet he persists in attacking them, out of sheer stubbornness or even insanity. I would think that it would be a matter of historical record how the Avengers eventually die or disband. Otherwise, it makes sense that Kang would know when and how he succeeds and simply prepares for that one successful attack instead of wasting time on futile efforts.Marvel time doesn't really work like that, though. Even the future Kang comes from is technically an alternate future.

[Shellhead]

Marvel time doesn't really work like that, though. Even the future Kang comes from is technically an alternate future.

I realize that changes by time travellers from the future merely split off new alternate realities from the existing timeline. But does the mere appearance of a time traveller cause such a split? Or does the time traveller need to affect history to cause the split? It seems possible that at least some of the Kang appearances conform to existing history, given that Immortus and Rama-Tut have anticipated at least some of Kang's actions. Otherwise, the Immortus and Rama-Tut appearances would seem to be alternate reality versions of Kang who shouldn't have a clue of what Kang has done and will do.

[Expletive Deleted]

It's hard to say. All explanations of time travel eventually devolve into technobabbling semantics.

My point was just that Kang knowing how and when the Avengers died in his home timeline doesn't mean he can't go back and try to do it himself.

[Shellhead]

It's hard to say. All explanations of time travel eventually devolve into technobabbling semantics.


True. And it becomes difficult to even talk about time travel, at least in terms of grammar. I find myself frequently switching tense, even in mid-sentence.

[jackolover]

Hmm. What if Kang is actually trapped by history? Maybe he knows from historical records that he never defeats the Avengers, ever. And yet he persists in attacking them, out of sheer stubbornness or even insanity. I would think that it would be a matter of historical record how the Avengers eventually die or disband. Otherwise, it makes sense that Kang would know when and how he succeeds and simply prepares for that one successful attack instead of wasting time on futile efforts.

Yeah. I like this. Kang is doomed to fail, by inevitability. But isn't there another school of thought that any interference in the time stream alters history?

[Alan2099]

Kang actually has some weird technology that allows him to ACTUALLY effect the time stream, and not just create alternate realities. He's one of the very few people that can do this, but not all Kang's have this and he doesn't always use it.

Still, Kang is honorable enough to want to beat the Avengers more or less fairly, rather than just going back in time and killing them off while they're defenceless.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

The greatest villain of all is Stilt-Man, who can defeat the amazing power of stilts?

[Shellhead]

Yeah. I like this. Kang is doomed to fail, by inevitability. But isn't there another school of thought that any interference in the time stream alters history?

Marvel took an official stance on time travel in the '60s, and have more or less stuck with it. If a time traveler goes back in time and tries to change the past, the "change" causes a split into two divergent realities, the changed and the unchanged. That prevents time travel paradoxes, as the guy from the future is still from the unchanged timeline. If the time traveler wants to live in a timeline that results from the change, he/she would need to somehow travel to the alternate reality created by the change. Depending on the degree of change, that traveler might meet his/her counterpart in that alternate reality.

[jackolover]

Marvel took an official stance on time travel in the '60s, and have more or less stuck with it. If a time traveler goes back in time and tries to change the past, the "change" causes a split into two divergent realities, the changed and the unchanged. That prevents time travel paradoxes, as the guy from the future is still from the unchanged timeline. If the time traveler wants to live in a timeline that results from the change, he/she would need to somehow travel to the alternate reality created by the change. Depending on the degree of change, that traveler might meet his/her counterpart in that alternate reality.

So there's no real point to time travel, as all you get is some ego stroking to alter what the traveller likes, but it's so unsatisfying, because the real time stream doesn't change. Yet, we have had time travellers enter the real time stream of the MU. Or has the MU changed a thousand times, because of time traveller interference, and what we have now is a miriad divergence copy?

[stelok]

Dr. Doom
Thanos
Magneto
Bullseye
Sabretooth
Green Goblin
Crossbones

[jcp011c]

It would depend if you're talking in terms of characterization or in effective plots and desires, and for the second, if you're talking about on a grand universal scale, just earth, or just even general anarchy or rulership.
For just Earth, or even just in dealing with characterization, you've pretty much gotta go with Doom and Magneto as your number one and two. But if you're talking about non-Earth/cosmic realms they have to fall below beings like Thanos, Mephisto and Loki. The ramifications those three have can be much more serious than those that Doom and Magneto present.
So it's a really hard question to answer. And that's not even taking into account that "such and such is this hero's personal nemisis, greatest foe, etc".
When just talking generalizations, you have to throw out names like the above five, Green Goblin, Apocolypse, Mr. Sinister, Ultron, Annialus (spelling incorrect I know!) Dr. Octopus, Shadow King, Bullseye, Count Nefaria, Sabretooth, Mystique, Kang, Mandarin, Red Skull, Wingless Wizard, The Leader, Galactus, Juggernaut, Venom, and Viper, Grim Reaper, MODOK, Baron Zemo, Attuma, Supreme Intelligence, and the whole of the Hellfire Club (most promiently Selene and Sebastian Shaw),

That gives you, IMHO, your top villians, not only just for pure power, but also for characterization, in terms of both universal and world domination, manipulation, and personal nemisises.