Anyone want to see a ST:Voyager tv movie?

[Ugoff]

I was thinking how much more interesting this would be then another movie about a super tornado or a plauge of bats. Also they could make money off DVDs and what not. I guess there busy making the new movie, hopefully they'll do something with Voyager one day.

[Chiasm]

Just my opinion but Voyager was the lowpoint of the Star Trek franchise. It pretty much killed it and kept fans away from Enterprise for fear it would be Voyager: Redux.

[Thorlief]

hell no. When I started watching VOY I had just finished watching DS9..the shock almost killed me

[Nate Grey]

DS9 earned my loyalty to the franchise, Voyager destroyed it.

I'd love to see a DS9 movie, but its way too far after the fact for that.

[The Zapper]

Just my opinion but Voyager was the lowpoint of the Star Trek franchise. It pretty much killed it and kept fans away from Enterprise for fear it would be Voyager: Redux.

I agree with this.

[Nate Grey]

hell no. When I started watching VOY I had just finished watching DS9..the shock almost killed me

lol I feel your pain. Though to be perfectly honest, I rather enjoyed the first season and most of the second.

[Thorlief]

Just my opinion but Voyager was the lowpoint of the Star Trek franchise. It pretty much killed it and kept fans away from Enterprise for fear it would be Voyager: Redux.

and they were right, since Enterprise was a crapola fest, in my opinion

lol I feel your pain. Though to be perfectly honest, I rather enjoyed the first season and most of the second.

the Doctor was the only one character with personality, and Picardo's efforts alone couldnt really save the show from the lack of interesting characters, enemies, Borg and Q abuse and so on

[Nate Grey]

the Doctor was the only one character with personality, and Picardo's efforts alone couldnt really save the show from the lack of interesting characters, enemies, Borg and Q abuse and so on

The Doctor had his share of bad episodes ("Darkling" immediately comes to mind), but you are right about that. "Deathwish" should have been the only Q episode (great episode, too), but unfortunately they used him and the Borg as constant storytelling crutches. Seven had potential but seemed kinda redundant with Tuvok around. She and Chakotay dating came out of nowhere in the final ep, but I couldn't help but think seeing those two in a courtship all along would have been more fun that Paris and B'Lanna. Man was that excruciating.

[Toreador]

I think they should combine characters from the 3 series (TNG, DS9, VOY) into one movie. I'm thinking of a movie starring Riker and Troi on their new ship. With Chakotay as 1st officer, Paris as the pilot and B'elanna as chief engineer. And they team up with the Defiant and Worf, Bashir and Dax. Cameos/small roles could be from Picard, Seven, Kim and a few others.

Their mission would be to investigate those little creatures that almost took over Starfleet.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I´ll have five huge props to DS9 and two Boos! for Voyager, please. :)

If there is to be a ST movie, I´d love to see them focus on the little people for a change.
Give the starfleet a rest.

There´s a whole quadrant filld with telepatic businessmen, alien teachers, ciborg thieves, terraformers, revolutionaries.....so much material to milk.

[Nate Grey]

I like what they're doing in the novels, even though its not considered canon (and I'm not talking about the "Shatnerverse", though those are entertaining). Not sure why, especially when you consider Star Trek nowadays is obsessing with aping their own past (first Enterprise, now this original crew movie that's coming out) and the books tells you what happen after each of the respective shows went off the air.

[the goddamn batman]

I'd like a new series.

One with the heart of DS9, but set on a ship. Maybe during a war with the Romulans... but please, enough with the prequel madness.

[CJ Lentze]

I say 'no'. Voyager's story's been told, it was a seven-year journey through a Quadrant unknown to the crew of the ship. That journey's finished. The irony was after all that this ship was called 'Voyager' and got stranded in the Delta Quadrant and had to make the voyage home (no pun intended).

While this thread isn't supposed to be a 'Voyager sucks' thread or a 'which Star Trek series was better?' thread, I'm taking the liberty to say that I enjoyed Voyager (I was about 10-16 when I watched the show), but I liked DS9 better. I personally think Voyager's strong point was its cast, which was imo as solid as the casts from TNG and DS9, and its weak point was the emphasis in a lot of episodes on alternate dimensions and loop-holes and time travel and themes like those.

I wouldn't watch another Star Trek movie at all, to be honest. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I've had my fill of Star Trek (tho I'll re-watch the episodes and movies with glee), and I didn't like the last two movies, 'Insurrection' and 'Nemesis'. And I thought the 'Enterprise' show was sterile and cold, and lacking adventure. This is just my opinion, I don't mean to offend anyone. :)

[The Mutt]

I'd like to see a series of Tales of the Federation made-for-TV movies. They could use all the well-loved actors who don't have much of a post-Trek career. Instead of being tied to one ship or one station, they could tell any story from any part of the Federation.

It would be so easy to do. They can do the kind of shows TV already knows how to do so well:

West Wing at Federation Headquarters, starring Janeway, Riker and Worf .
NCIS at Starfleet Command, with Odo, Tuvok and LaForge.
ER with Crusher, Bashir and Doctor EMH.
Sex and The City with Troi, Kira, Torres and Selar.
I Spy with Data and Seven of Nine.
The Sopranos with Ferengis.
Band of Brothers with Klingons.
Mythbusters with Barclay and O'Brien!

Set the series a year after Voyager's return and ignore the movie continuity completely.
:cool:

[Nate Grey]

What gets me is that DS9 is generally well respected among fans, but generally ignored in the books, movies, and by the powers that be behind Star Trek altogether. I have no idea why, since they can't be oblivious to how fans have grown to love and respect it. I could have sworn there were quotes from Armin Shimmerman and Rene Auborjonois (sp?) that basically said the thing. Yes its continuity heavy but the characters could easily work in a movie/TV movie with little explanation of who they are, so long as the story itself isn't continuity heavy. It'd love to see Sisko and Kira working together again like old times.

But getting back to the point of this thread...Janeway is effectively out the picture what with being promoted, unless she pulls a Kirk and takes a demotion, which I doubt. So Chakotay and Paris interacting with each other could be interesting, though I never really liked Paris and Chakotay came off as a watered down Riker clone. They'd have to do some major tinkering to make a Voyager movie work, but the problem is because people remember the series not so fondly they may not give any such movie a chance.

[CJ Lentze]

What gets me is that DS9 is generally well respected among fans, but generally ignored in the books, movies, and by the powers that be behind Star Trek altogether. I have no idea why, since they can't be oblivious to how fans have grown to love and respect it. I could have sworn there were quotes from Armin Shimmerman and Rene Auborjonois (sp?) that basically said the thing. Yes its continuity heavy but the characters could easily work in a movie/TV movie with little explanation of who they are, so long as the story itself isn't continuity heavy. It'd love to see Sisko and Kira working together again like old times.

But getting back to the point of this thread...Janeway is effectively out the picture what with being promoted, unless she pulls a Kirk and takes a demotion, which I doubt. So Chakotay and Paris interacting with each other could be interesting, though I never really liked Paris and Chakotay came off as a watered down Riker clone. They'd have to do some major tinkering to make a Voyager movie work, but the problem is because people remember the series not so fondly they may not give any such movie a chance.

It's 'Auberjonois'. It's also 'Shimerman', btw. :)

And I agree with your ideas. I think a lot of crewmen from Voyager went on to do other things after having actually lived on the ship for seven years without an opportunity of taking a vacation on their home planets.

They'd also need to re-design the Voyager, because it is outdated (though also equipped with some fancy alien technlogy over the years), but I don't really know how long it takes for a Federation Starship to be replaced/recycled.

[Nate Grey]

It's 'Auberjonois'. It's also 'Shimerman', btw. :)

Yeah, I knew I wasn't spelling it right, hence the (sp?).

And I didn't really give ideas as much as state the hurdles any writer would face writing such a movie, namely a) Voyager still leaves a bad taste in most people's mouths, so they'd have do so something on the onset to let them know "this is Voyager but not the same one, give it a chance," and b) some of the characterization was all over the place (like Chakotay suddenly being a boxer and Paris suddenly being a car expert, etc) so they'd have to nail down a good personality for all that doesn't betray each individual *core* concept and at the same time evolve them. In other words, do in two hours what was barely accomplished in seven years. And ironically, new characters would help, but too many new characters you might as well call it something else.

In the end, it may be too much trouble than its worth.

[ChrisIII]

There were some DS9 follow-up novels, which basically introduced some new crew members and stuff. Also some novels dealt with the Voyager crew post-"Endgame"....and the TNG guys have two lines I think, one dealing with Picard and the E, and one dealing with Riker/Troi on the Titan.

However, it is kind of weird how the last two TNG movies kind of completely ignored most of the Deep Space Nine events (The Dominion War, and wasn't Worf suppossed to be some kind of ambassador? At least "First Contact" explained why he was part of the crew again).

[Nate Grey]

There were some DS9 follow-up novels, which basically introduced some new crew members and stuff. Also some novels dealt with the Voyager crew post-"Endgame"....and the TNG guys have two lines I think, one dealing with Picard and the E, and one dealing with Riker/Troi on the Titan.

I'm aware of those (the post Voyager books is where I learned Chakotay commands the Voyager with Paris as his first officer), in fact I own "Unity", the "season finale" to the "season 8" DS9 books. And someday I'll get around to finishing it. :) But those books are for the most part self contained, unless events therein are referenced in the TNG/Voy/New Frontier books and I missed it? The only exception was the Mirror Universe saga, but those were, obviously, the Mirror Universe counterparts.

Heck, New Frontier was practically a spinoff of TNG, side stepping DS9 (and to be fair Voyager, too) altogether.

Still, I'd love to see something about the Titan (Riker's ship where Tuvok is a crew member). Riker out from under Picard's shadow would be very interesting.

However, it is kind of weird how the last two TNG movies kind of completely ignored most of the Deep Space Nine events (The Dominion War, and wasn't Worf suppossed to be some kind of ambassador? At least "First Contact" explained why he was part of the crew again).

Not only that, Worf is now Picard's first officer as per the current TNG book, "Resistance." So much for being an ambassador.

[ChrisIII]

Apparentally the "A Time to" novel series tries to clean up some of the whole TNG continuity mess (The novels take place between Inssurection and Nemesis, I believe). From what I've read they sort of have an explanation for Worf and Wesley's appearences in Nemesis.


Of course, they're not technically canon...

[Dr. Banner]

Apparentally the "A Time to" novel series tries to clean up some of the whole TNG continuity mess (The novels take place between Inssurection and Nemesis, I believe). From what I've read they sort of have an explanation for Worf and Wesley's appearences in Nemesis.


Of course, they're not technically canon...

The script for Nemesis explained this as well. Just like too much of the script, a lot of the character "meat" of the story was editted out. Patrick Stewart often jokes when asked about a director's cut of Nemesis, that he'd rather an actor's cut, to put some of the good stuff that was filmed back in, since Stuart Baird kept on hacking away at that film (ironic since he's an oscar winning editor).

Back on topic, Voyager wasted 7 years of my life. I wouldn't watch a made for TV movie or a direct to DVD or a theatrical.

Unfortunately, the Star Trek universe as a whole, though, really seems like it could lend itself to a direct to DVD market. However, "Direct to DVD" really doesn't have that great of a connotation associated with it (think Disney movies, especially), and CBS-Paramount wouldn't want to dilute what still is a very profitable and viable franchise. Especially with a major motion picture with very high hopes associated with it just around the corner.

A Riker on the Titan movie, some DS9 movies, a completely new direction all would fail at the box office (most likely), but would probably do quite well for Direct to DVD. But to the studios and people in charge, that's usually a last ditch effort to pull in some money. As wrong as that may be.

[CJ Lentze]

Yeah, I knew I wasn't spelling it right, hence the (sp?).

I realised what the (sp?) stood for, but my netiquette isn't perfect, so I wasn't sure if I was supposed to reply with the correct spelling or leave well enough alone.

I wasn't trying to be snarky.

[Karl H]

I always felt Voyager needed a coda showing how the characters reacted to being back on earth.

But then that's me.

[the goddamn batman]

Eh, the last few seasons of Voyager aren't that bad. But, anything after DS9 is going to have a hard time coming off as good.

The problem with Voyager is that it didn't have any really good actors.

TNG had Patrick Stewart. Period. The others were mostly fine, and it got better as it went. I mean, fuck, episodes like The Drumhead. Voyager NEVER Even came close to the performance Stewart gave in that ep.

DS9 had Avery Brooks. Period. Everyone else was pretty ok most of the time, and as usual with Trek, it got better as it went on. This is very true of DS9. Avery delivered time and time again. Far Beyond the Stars? Wow. He was just great in that. Again, Voyager NEVER had anything even close to that. Despite it's best efforts.

All Voyager had was a PC cast, and then lots of tits and action in the later scenes, per... uh... whoever owned it at that point (Damn memory), and fucking Nelix.


I'm not a big fan of the original, or Enterprise... that and I never really watched Enterprise so I can't comment.

Trek needs a new series with at least ONE great actor to center the show (usually the captain), and a decent cast around them.

[Thorlief]

Eh, the last few seasons of Voyager aren't that bad. But, anything after DS9 is going to have a hard time coming off as good.

The problem with Voyager is that it didn't have any really good actors.

TNG had Patrick Stewart. Period. The others were mostly fine, and it got better as it went. I mean, fuck, episodes like The Drumhead. Voyager NEVER Even came close to the performance Stewart gave in that ep.

DS9 had Avery Brooks. Period. Everyone else was pretty ok most of the time, and as usual with Trek, it got better as it went on. This is very true of DS9. Avery delivered time and time again. Far Beyond the Stars? Wow. He was just great in that. Again, Voyager NEVER had anything even close to that. Despite it's best efforts.

All Voyager had was a PC cast, and then lots of tits and action in the later scenes, per... uh... whoever owned it at that point (Damn memory), and fucking Nelix.


I'm not a big fan of the original, or Enterprise... that and I never really watched Enterprise so I can't comment.

Trek needs a new series with at least ONE great actor to center the show (usually the captain), and a decent cast around them.

yes, having good actors was one strong reason the shows were so good. TNG also had Brent Spiner and Michael Dorn, both absolutely great in their own roles. In my opinion, the DS9 Cast beats the TNG one anyways. It's almost perfect in terms of quality and diversification, and they all work great in the economy of the serie. Ferengi, Klingon, shapeshifter, Bajorian, Cardassian, a genetically enhanced human and the mythological Colm Meaney as O'Brien...it doesn't get much better than that. The show was also very-Roddenberry free, which allowed the writers to throw in a great sense of humor and strong and badass action scenes. TNG raised the bar and DS9 perfectionized the formula while changing it at the same time

Voyager had nothing of it.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Considering Voyager is one of the least popular of all the various Star Trek shows, I don't think there'd be a big enough audience to justify the budget of even a TV movie.

[Pro]

While DS9 was without a doubt the best str trek series i never quite understood the hatred for Voyager. Sure it had a few weak points but overall the series was engaging enough. As for a movie i can't really see that happening. The story of Voyager was always about finding a way home and at the end of the series that's exactly what happened. Story done.

[Jared]

Voyager's biggest problem was that it never really took advantage of its premise: a lone ship in distant part of the galaxy completely cut off from home. What kind of moral compromises might they have to make? What kind of struggles do they have to keep the ship running? And let's not forget that about half the crew were terrorists! There's alot of a story and character potential there, but the writers simply paid lip service or glossed over it entirely in favor of an alien-misunderstanding/spacial-anomaly-of-the-week format. Then, in the later seasons, they went for the lowest common denominator in putting Jeri Ryan in a catsuit and then turning the Borg into the major recurring threat, thus neutering them as effective villains.

Also, I think Janeway really rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Sure, in part it might be because she's a woman, and even more superficially because of Kate Mulgrew's voice. But mostly, it's that she was the most inconsistently written of any captain. At the start of a given crisis, you never knew what kind of leader you were going to see: Kirk? Picard? Sarah Connor? Hillary Clinton?

I don't understand Paramount's reasoning in keeping the books non-canon. It can't be that they're worried about continuity, since intra and inter-series it's already a mess. If anything, books could be written that retcon and explain lots of problems.

Based on the amount of output, the Expanded Universe seems to be working out pretty well for Star Wars. I imagine more people would buy Star Trek books if they felt like they were reading "the official" continuation of the story.

[Shostie]

I thought the first two seasons of Enterprise were okay. I got bored one day and downloaded the series. They definitely had some potential, but they kept flubbing (appearances by the Borg and Ferengi immediately come to mind). Then the third season came along and I lost all will to move forward.

[mattx110]

yes, having good actors was one strong reason the shows were so good. TNG also had Brent Spiner and Michael Dorn, both absolutely great in their own roles. In my opinion, the DS9 Cast beats the TNG one anyways. It's almost perfect in terms of quality and diversification, and they all work great in the economy of the serie. Ferengi, Klingon, shapeshifter, Bajorian, Cardassian, a genetically enhanced human and the mythological Colm Meaney as O'Brien...it doesn't get much better than that. The show was also very-Roddenberry free, which allowed the writers to throw in a great sense of humor and strong and badass action scenes. TNG raised the bar and DS9 perfectionized the formula while changing it at the same time

Voyager had nothing of it.

with colm meaney able to do a random noir story (actually more than one, with "o'brien" being chased by the crew, and him going undercover for the federation), avery brooks with shakespearean monologues for captains logs while breaking federation laws. garrick and o'brien and odo mind games, and a war ready to make DS9 the front line. sci fi wasn't the genre. it was the setting.
every character got their own "definitive portrayel" episode. even jake (though he was played by more than one actor...). and not every episode was about meeting a new culture and finding common ground while the doctor fights for a crew members life.

i really like TNG, but Ds9 grows on you.

voyager had a good cast, but it was very traditional star trek, exploring galaxies and negotiating with hostiles, but we've already seen patrick stewart do that. and he had a real grudge against the borg and a complex relationship with Q.

[Cyke]

In my opinion, I thought Voyager had a cast of great actors, just hampered by mediocre leadership and really ho-hum writing. Enterprise seemed to suffer from the same problem, too. It's a shame that neither cast had the chance to truly shine as an ensemble.

[Dr. Banner]

^^^
The Enterprise cast had their chance with the 4th season. Incredibly done. Too bad it was too little way too late. The third season, I thought, really started the upward trend in great storytelling. To me, the third season was almost their apology for Voyager, how to do that story right. The ship on their own, with the captain making some BIG decisions that may not have been the most ethical.

Voyager had 7 years, and had maybe 2 episodes which could be considered incredible.

They also had the episode "Threshold", which nullified the maybe 2 episodes.

[mattx110]

^^^
The Enterprise cast had their chance with the 4th season. Incredibly done. Too bad it was too little way too late. The third season, I thought, really started the upward trend in great storytelling. To me, the third season was almost their apology for Voyager, how to do that story right. The ship on their own, with the captain making some BIG decisions that may not have been the most ethical.

Voyager had 7 years, and had maybe 2 episodes which could be considered incredible.

They also had the episode "Threshold", which nullified the maybe 2 episodes.

but don't you get a kick out of him turning into a being able to see and explore the entire universe that has two hearts... and it beat out the best star trek episode for an emmy apparently... in makeup, but still. not every part of the episode was bad.

i still get a kick out of the TNG episode when a time traveller turned out to be a thief who stole a TARDIS.

meanwhile, apparently Michael Taylor wrote the episodes of Ds9 that i love and some good voyager ones. good for him.

[The Mutt]

The problem with Voyager is that I wouldn't want to spend thirty seconds on an elevator with Chakotay, Paris, Torres, Kim, Neelix or Kes, never mind spending seven years on a ship with them. It was a ship full of Rikers. I don't know if it was the writing, the casting or the acting, but they were all about as blank and boring as cold oatmeal.

[Black Atom]

Voyager's biggest problem was that it never really took advantage of its premise: a lone ship in distant part of the galaxy completely cut off from home. What kind of moral compromises might they have to make? What kind of struggles do they have to keep the ship running? And let's not forget that about half the crew were terrorists! There's alot of a story and character potential there, but the writers simply paid lip service or glossed over it entirely in favor of a alien-misunderstanding/spacial-anomaly-of-the-week format.

Have to agree. In addition, it seemed like all the new races they encountered were just stand-ins for guys we already knew/loved. The odd thing is, on paper, Voyager sounds awesome, but it really didn't end up being all that different from other Treks and each one that preceded it did the formula better.

Then, in the later seasons, they went for the lowest common denominator in putting Jeri Ryan in a catsuit and then turning the Borg into the major recurring threat, thus neutering them as effective villains.


This is when things got embarrassing. I remember there was an episode where these things that looked like the Brood infected the ship and Janeway was the only one left to fight them off. They were really vulnerable to heat, or something, so she had to turn the ship's temp way up. This of couse meant she had to stalk around the ship with a sweaty wife-beater on hunting down the aliens with a phaser rifle. Really, WTF?

[marshal99]

Hmmm .... I guess i must be the only one that enjoyed voyager then ? There were some poor episodes but there were some decent episodes as well. I liked the crew much better than those from in the later ST : Enterprise series.

[LtMarvel]

There were far more good episodes of Voyager after 7 of 9 joined the cast then there were before.

I'd like a movie set three years or so after the return of Voyager. Voyager brought a bunch of future tech to the Federation as well as a vicious blow against the Borg. The movie wouldn't be a focus on Voyager's crew, but of the changes to Federation itself, and we could get a glimpse of each of the crews...

[marshal99]

After the ship went back , Janeway became an admiral as shown in one of the star trek TNG movies , she would have passed on the duties of captain to Chakotay.

[The Mutt]

I would have loved to have seen a story that dealt with how Captain Kelsey Grammer and his crew dealt with being thrown forward in time. Did anybody ever do a novel about that?

[Thorlief]

The problem with Voyager is that I wouldn't want to spend thirty seconds on an elevator with Chakotay, Paris, Torres, Kim, Neelix or Kes, never mind spending seven years on a ship with them. It was a ship full of Rikers. I don't know if it was the writing, the casting or the acting, but they were all about as blank and boring as cold oatmeal.

true, definitely. Chakotay is probably the worst first officier of the entire starfleet..no, seriously.
blablabla my ancestors blablabla the captain gave you a order blablabla shields up blablabla

as effective as a popsickle being eaten via anus

[marshal99]

I would have loved to have seen a story that dealt with how Captain Kelsey Grammer and his crew dealt with being thrown forward in time. Did anybody ever do a novel about that?

I'm sure some temporal agents from the 29th century in their timeship would have come along and bring them back to their original century. ;)

[Syzygy]

Hmmm .... I guess i must be the only one that enjoyed voyager then ? There were some poor episodes but there were some decent episodes as well. I liked the crew much better than those from in the later ST : Enterprise series.

Agree; so no, you're not the only one. Personally, I loved Voyager, but was disappointed by the variability in episode quality. Some of the episodes I truly loved:

(1) Prime Factors; (2) Meld; Death Wish; The Thaw; Tuvix; (3)Real Life; (4) Omega Directive; Hope and Fear; (5) Night; Extreme Risk; The Disease; Someone to Watch Over Me; Equinox; (6) Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy; The Voyager Conspiracy; Pathfinder; Fair Haven; Spirit Folk; Ashes to Ashes; Good Shepard; Live Fast and Prosper; (7) Lineage; Human Error; Q2; Author, Author.

Granted, there were just as many episode that were trite, boring, or just plain terrible. My all time contender for worst ever is 7th season's Nightengale, where Harry Kim -- after seven years on the ship's senior staff -- proved he had learned nothing by behaving like a second year cadet. And then Janeway, who should have torn him a new @$$hole, instead let the entire matter pass???

Frankly, I have trouble recollecting the bad episodes because I avoid reviewing them. Wish I couldn't recollect Nightengale.

The problem with Voyager is that I wouldn't want to spend thirty seconds on an elevator with Chakotay, Paris, Torres, Kim, Neelix or Kes, never mind spending seven years on a ship with them. It was a ship full of Rikers. I don't know if it was the writing, the casting or the acting, but they were all about as blank and boring as cold oatmeal.

I don't know where you're coming from in this. I found I liked every major cast member. I'd love to have Paris, Kim, Kes, and Chakotay as friends. Even Tuvok, who was supposed to be a stuffed shirt, was likeable in his unlikeableness. And none of them seemed anything like Riker to me.

Well, I guess I at least know why you didn't like it. If you don't like the characters, as a matter of taste, then yes, it's going to be difficult to like the crew.

For myself, I had an idea for an episode where Paris and Chakotay go 'shrooming together. Yes, it's a buddy episode, where two characters who dislike each other find common ground on a planet of magic mushrooms! (They're stranded -- after a shuttle crash, of course -- and the only edible foods are psychedelic mushrooms. So Chakotay teaches Paris how to go on a trip and actually learn something about yourself, rather than just lose your mind.):D

Damn, do I wish I'd seen that!

While DS9 was without a doubt the best str trek series i never quite understood the hatred for Voyager. Sure it had a few weak points but overall the series was engaging enough. As for a movie i can't really see that happening. The story of Voyager was always about finding a way home and at the end of the series that's exactly what happened. Story done.

I wouldn't mind a "ten years later: this is where they are now" made for TV movie. But yes, everything you say is pretty on-the-spot.

[the goddamn batman]

Ok so everyone seems to agree that the last two Trek series didn't exactly get it right most of the time.

So, new series... what would you do to get it right? Or what would make it right in your mind?

[Syzygy]

Ok so everyone seems to agree that the last two Trek series didn't exactly get it right most of the time.

So, new series... what would you do to get it right? Or what would make it right in your mind?

There was briefly talk of a Star Trek "young guns" series to take place at Starfleet Academy. As I gathered, this would be like that old seventies TV show "The Paper Chase," but from a sci-fi academy angle.

I gather that the cast would eventually graduate into lower deck service, and we'd see a few years of that too. That is, not from the point of view of the senior staff, but from the point of view of the junior officers.

[marshal99]

There was briefly talk of a Star Trek "young guns" series to take place at Starfleet Academy. As I gathered, this would be like that old seventies TV show "The Paper Chase," but from a sci-fi academy angle.

I gather that the cast would eventually graduate into lower deck service, and we'd see a few years of that too. That is, not from the point of view of the senior staff, but from the point of view of the junior officers.


Starfleet academy ?
Like this ? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhGaUEWtUNU

[Cyke]

Ok so everyone seems to agree that the last two Trek series didn't exactly get it right most of the time.

So, new series... what would you do to get it right? Or what would make it right in your mind?

If there was ever a new series, I'd try to make it more existential and philosophical, more idea-driven. A lot of modern thought about science these days is about pushing conceptual boundaries. After watchng any number of documentaries, I'm more interested in the true mysteries and dangers of the universe than the 'quantum flux temporal filament' mystery.

But what makes sci-fi good is, of course, adding/exploring the human element. It's not enough to have a spectacular black hole, it's about what the cast does, with the black hole as a nice backdrop. All in all, if anything, I'd ask the Star Trek writers to PLEASE drop the 'technobabble-as-conflict-resolution' technique. The resolution to Timeless wasn't important because Harry found the right equation, the resolution was important because Harry was so determined from personal guilt that he was willing to die to fix his innocent mistake. THAT's insight.

[Syzygy]

Starfleet academy ?
Like this ? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhGaUEWtUNU

No, I believe it would have been an actual series, not a computer game. And set in TNG timeline, not just after TOS.

[Thorlief]

Ok so everyone seems to agree that the last two Trek series didn't exactly get it right most of the time.

So, new series... what would you do to get it right? Or what would make it right in your mind?

Future is the key, in my opinion. Since Enterprise I wanted to set the serie 500 years in the future, which would be the only correct way to reinvent the franchise AND respect the continuity

make old allies enemies, make old enemies friend, reorganize/ erase the federation, introduce a new powerful menacing race, new technology and expand the universe by a new quadrant: the Epsilon Quadrant

placing thew serie in the future allows the writers to have big fun, and the viewers as well. Screw the past, Star Trek: The new generation is all we need

[Nate Grey]

The Epsilon quadrant would be a good idea. But the new series needs to do something different, not just ape what came before. Star Trek is more than just a ship looking for adventures, but even the writers didn't get that. And by writers I mean the "Killer B's" Berman and Braga. Leave those two out of ANYTHING Star Trek related and it might have a chance.

In short:
-The future (after Nemesis and beyond)
-No Rick Berman or Brannon Braga. Don't even let them mop the sets.
-Take risks! Don't ignore Roddenberry's ideals, but don't be a slave to them either.
-Limit time travel and alternate reality eps, as well as holosuite eps. They're crutches. Better yet, take a risk like I mentioned and not even do those AT ALL. MAYBE allude people have their down time in a holosuite, but no more.

Just random thoughts, but it can be done. Its just Paramount is scared to at this point and want to go the safest route that they believe will give them the most money. Which I understand, its just a shame is all.

[Nevets F]

I am actually a big fan of Voyager. I have recently been watching the episodes on Spike, and have gornw to love them even more.

TNG will always have my heart though.

As for a movie, I don't see Voyager having a movie to itself, but I would like to see a new movie dealing with the Federation, and including multiple ships, and cast members from TNG, DS9, and Voyager.

I am not happy at all with a prequel movie. >:(

[Nate Grey]

I am actually a big fan of Voyager. I have recently been watching the episodes on Spike, and have gornw to love them even more.

TNG will always have my heart though.

As for a movie, I don't see Voyager having a movie to itself, but I would like to see a new movie dealing with the Federation, and including multiple ships, and cast members from TNG, DS9, and Voyager.

I am not happy at all with a prequel movie. >:(

I thought that was the idea at one point, a multiple cast movie. I'd love to see, for instance, Kira as Picard's first officer, though Worf as Picard's first officer has grown on me. Who's left as far as science officers? DS9 never filled that vacancy once Jadzia died (unless my memory is failing me), Voyager's crew were technically ALL science officers, though I guess Seven kinda counts what with astrometrics. TNG had Data but he's dead. Security would go to Tuvok or Ro or that one Jem H'dar who beat ketrecel (sp?) white. Com/helm...Paris I guess (I was always fuzzy on that position, honestly. Basically the person who "steers" the ship, right?). Engineering...hmm...toss up between LaForge and O'Brian. I guess B'Lanna, but while good she never struck me as equivalent to LaForge or O'Brian. The Doctor, well, The Doctor. :) Robert Picardo's dry wit HAS to be involved.

All I got off the top of my head. Anyone else?

[marshal99]

In short:
-The future (after Nemesis and beyond)
-No Rick Berman or Brannon Braga. Don't even let them mop the sets.
-Take risks! Don't ignore Roddenberry's ideals, but don't be a slave to them either.
-Limit time travel and alternate reality eps, as well as holosuite eps. They're crutches. Better yet, take a risk like I mentioned and not even do those AT ALL. MAYBE allude people have their down time in a holosuite, but no more.


Bah , those episodes with time travelling/alternate reality are always fun to watch. It certainly wouldn't be the same without them and i also enjoyed the holodeck stuffs.

[Nate Grey]

Bah , those episodes with time travelling/alternate reality are always fun to watch. It certainly wouldn't be the same without them and i also enjoyed the holodeck stuffs.

While true, Voyager relied a little too heavily on them, and those holosuite eps...gah. Fair Haven and Spirit Folk both circled the drain if you catch my drift. Not sure about Enterprise, cause season 1 turned me off, and the middle of season 3 brought me back, so I may have missed their time travel hijinks. Though I loved the Mirror Universe ep.

[Jared]

The Epsilon quadrant would be a good idea.

Technically, aren't there only supposed to be four quadrants in the galaxy?

[Shostie]

Technically, aren't there only supposed to be four quadrants in the galaxy?

I believe so, yes:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5751/startrekquadrantmapkt0.jpg

[Nate Grey]

Technically, aren't there only supposed to be four quadrants in the galaxy?

I believe so, yes:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5751/startrekquadrantmapkt0.jpg

And, they could find the epsilon quadrant beyond all that. Seriously, what's the problem? The only thing a writer would have to come up with is how they got to that particular quadrant.

[Thorlief]

the universe is expanding, so where's the problem?

[Shostie]

Yes, I'm sure they could figure out a way to write in a new region of space, but if they're going to do that, they'll probably have to go intergalactic, since Star Trek canon has pre-subdivided the milky way already. After that, they can call it whatever the hell they want.

I've heard somewhere about a theory that our galaxy is actually two galaxies colliding with one another, so that could be a possibility.

[Nate Grey]

Yes, I'm sure they could figure out a way to write in a new region of space, but if they're going to do that, they'll probably have to go intergalactic, since Star Trek canon has pre-subdivided the milky way already. After that, they can call it whatever the hell they want.

I've heard somewhere about a theory that our galaxy is actually two galaxies colliding with one another, so that could be a possibility.

So there was ALWAYS a Gamma quadrant before DS9? ALWAYS a Delta quadrant before TNG's "Q Who?"? And even if there was, anything is possible in fiction, I think its possible to write it in and make it make sense without destroying what came before. Which is part of the problem a lot of people had with Voyager in the first place, they couldn't find a way to use Q and the Borg without ruining them along the way. It can be done, and like I was saying the writers shouldn't be restricted and take risks. Not disregard the rules, but take risks. It can be done, its was got DS9 on the map in the first place.

[comicfreak]

What to do right for a future Star Trek Series? Be optimistic.
Seriously there seems to be a Trend among current SciFi and Fantasy Series to be depressive, gloomy, dark. To not trust your friend/partner/chief because he could betray you/is a doppelganger or whatever.
Star Trek was and is always about maintaining a spark of hope even in the darkest hour.

[Shostie]

I'm just saying it's established canon that the galaxy is divided into 4 quadrants, as in the picture above. The writers can take all the risks they want, but Star Trek at least tries (usually) to respect established canon. When they don't we end up with the retconned mess that is Klingon appearance.

Wow. This is getting way nerdier than I thought it would.

[Cyke]

Perhaps the Epsilon Quadrant is a region of space that's folded in upon itself within the Milky Way. If The Universe has taught me anything, it's that nothing is as clear-cut as it seems in space.

[The Mutt]

They can have an Epsilon if they want, but they'd look pretty foolish calling it a QUADrant.

[the goddamn batman]

Wow. This is getting way nerdier than I thought it would.

Well, we are talking about Star Trek. ;) :D

[Jared]

They can have an Epsilon if they want, but they'd look pretty foolish calling it a QUADrant.

My thoughts exactly. There's nothing stopping them from introducing a new mysterious region of space though. What was it that Enterprise visited, the Expanse?

And now for the ultra nerdy question: is it actually canon that the Romulans and Klingons are in the *Beta* Quadrant? I only seem to remember references to Alpha Quadrant, especially in Deep Space 9.

[Shostie]

My thoughts exactly. There's nothing stopping them from introducing a new mysterious region of space though. What was that Enterprise visited, the Expanse?

And now for the ultra nerdy question: is it actually canon that the Romulans and Klingons are in the *Beta* Quadrant? I only seem to remember references to Alpha Quadrant, especially in Deep Space 9.

There were apparently a couple references in Voyager according to Memory-Alpha. They never really spent too much time on where everything was except in a broad sort of way.

[mattx110]

While true, Voyager relied a little too heavily on them, and those holosuite eps...gah. Fair Haven and Spirit Folk both circled the drain if you catch my drift. Not sure about Enterprise, cause season 1 turned me off, and the middle of season 3 brought me back, so I may have missed their time travel hijinks. Though I loved the Mirror Universe ep.

the best star trek episodes always involve alternate realities, time travel, or the holodeck to approximate alternate realities or time travel.
also, the solo missions where most of the cast is support and someone other than the captain gets to do a log. basically any character-based episode rather than regular crew-based.

though there are clever ways to do it that don't involve time travel or the holodeck (voyager had psychic monster eating the ship, and also had a psychic person manipulating the ship, both resulting in most of the crew being asleep... best not watch those two episodes in a row) but things like repair stations leaving picard alone against space pirates, or getting blasted and forgetting you're a vulcan.

and one thing i never knew (or knew and forgot entirely), how did voyager get out there in the first place?

[Nate Grey]

the best star trek episodes always involve alternate realities, time travel, or the holodeck to approximate alternate realities or time travel.
also, the solo missions where most of the cast is support and someone other than the captain gets to do a log. basically any character-based episode rather than regular crew-based.

though there are clever ways to do it that don't involve time travel or the holodeck (voyager had psychic monster eating the ship, and also had a psychic person manipulating the ship, both resulting in most of the crew being asleep... best not watch those two episodes in a row) but things like repair stations leaving picard alone against space pirates, or getting blasted and forgetting you're a vulcan.

None of which negates my point you were replying to, namely Voyager relied on it TOO much, almost as much as the almighty reset button it employed 98% of the time. Of course they can be fun, never said they weren't. In excess though it can be a crutch and even a little lazy.

and one thing i never knew (or knew and forgot entirely), how did voyager get out there in the first place?

Out there in the Delta Quadrant? The Caretaker alien brought them there looking for a mate.

[mattx110]

None of which negates my point you were replying to, namely Voyager relied on it TOO much, almost as much as the almighty reset button it employed 98% of the time. Of course they can be fun, never said they weren't. In excess though it can be a crutch and even a little lazy.



Out there in the Delta Quadrant? The Caretaker alien brought them there looking for a mate.
well, now i'm even more confused... i'll check imdb or wikipedia.

and it doesn't negate your point, but maybe the writers were trying for a higher percentage of amazing episodes by going to the tools that usually create those.
i'm almost positive that if i rewatched the series over a shorter amount of time (instead of the random viewing over the course of a decade that i've done) it'd get predictable and i would be here complaining about the same thing you are.

[Black Atom]

What to do right for a future Star Trek Series? Be optimistic.
Seriously there seems to be a Trend among current SciFi and Fantasy Series to be depressive, gloomy, dark. To not trust your friend/partner/chief because he could betray you/is a doppelganger or whatever.
Star Trek was and is always about maintaining a spark of hope even in the darkest hour.

That sterility has also hampered Star Trek, though. BS:G has the same premise as Voyager, in some ways, but is more interesting because you have corruptable characters.

[Nate Grey]

well, now i'm even more confused... i'll check imdb or wikipedia.

and it doesn't negate your point, but maybe the writers were trying for a higher percentage of amazing episodes by going to the tools that usually create those.

Yeah, usually, instead of actually being creative and coming up with something fresh on their own. I.E., a crutch.

i'm almost positive that if i rewatched the series over a shorter amount of time (instead of the random viewing over the course of a decade that i've done) it'd get predictable and i would be here complaining about the same thing you are.

I watched all 170+ eps of Voyager when they first aired, and often talked to the reviewer of jammersreviews.com about each one. We often agreed except for one or two eps that escape my mind at the moment. So I'm kinda used to talking about Voyager and what was wrong with it. I didn't want to dislike it, I wanted something more from the same people who brought me DS9, but it didn't turn out that way for various reasons, most of which have already been covered. As a fan of Trek (before and during Voyager), it left a bad taste in my mouth I'm not likely to forget, hence me being wary of Enterprise, hence me being wary of even the idea of a Voyager movie. Even though I think one could work with a LOT of tinkering, but again would it be worth it in the end?

[The Mutt]

The Star Trek mandate that everybody in the crew be a good, noble, reasonable person did lead to some boring characters, but it didn't have to. Look at West Wing for a great example of flawed heroes with depth, who make mistakes and do wrong things for the right reasons.

[Nate Grey]

The Star Trek mandate that everybody in the crew be a good, noble, reasonable person did lead to some boring characters, but it didn't have to. Look at West Wing for a great example of flawed heroes with depth, who make mistakes and do wrong things for the right reasons.

Or look to DS9. They didn't get along at first, and then there's the famous "In the Pale Moonlight" ep that covers the "wrong things for the right reason" you mentioned.

[Cyke]

They can have an Epsilon if they want, but they'd look pretty foolish calling it a QUADrant.

Epsilon could be something newly discovered, but because everyone is so used to using the name Quadrant, it stays. Part of good exploration (Trek or not) is finding out something new and unexpected that trumps your old beliefs and makes you rethink old ways.

Like, how, we call Native Americans "Indians" due to a mistake, and they have nothing really in common with Asian-Indians. Or how a Black Hole isn't really a hole per se, but the name is still catchy.

To me, just worrying about 'quadrant' just seems really anal-retentive, and, really, is indicative of some of the problems of latter-Trek, that the writers were too constrained by labels and traditions to make something fun (ie, all those insipid puns the Doctor would shout out). And in TOS, 'quadrant' was used rather freely until the modern system was developed.

Anyway, back to a Voyager movie, I'm still not sure if I'd be okay with it, but it'd be more palatable for me if they kept the Curse of Kim.

[the goddamn batman]

There's a bunch of DS9 episodes about wrong for the right reasons.

That's one of the things that made DS9 great; it wasn't normal Trek. Yet, being probably more loved than either series before it just doesn't matter to anyone, as they went back to the norm with Voyager.

[The Mutt]

I'm sorry, but there can't be a fifth quadrant. There can't be a third half. That's not being anal. That's respect for the language.

[Thorlief]

I'm sorry, but there can't be a fifth quadrant. There can't be a third half. That's not being anal. That's respect for the language.

why? Just curious

maybe it implies the fact there would have to be three more quadrants to keep the universe the usual ST quadrangular form, but again..why?

[mattx110]

There's a bunch of DS9 episodes about wrong for the right reasons.

That's one of the things that made DS9 great; it wasn't normal Trek. Yet, being probably more loved than either series before it just doesn't matter to anyone, as they went back to the norm with Voyager.

picard made tons of hard choices, and had some not so boyscouty stuff in his past. and dealing with Q is never easy.

[The Mutt]

from Latin quadrens, quadrant-, a fourth part;

[jwd]

Have to agree with what I think is the majority. DS9 is the clear winner.
Voyager had some good episodes here and there but overall it was a big disappoinment. Enterprise continued the same and you could tell the same people behind Voyager were behind hit. The last season of Enterprise though was a huge improvement. Manny Coto coming onboard I think helped a lot but unfortunately it was to late.

I can't say I'm thrilled to see prequel series either. I wish they'd move forward. 25th century or something. More focus on characters like DS9.

Now I feel like watching my DS9 DVDs again.

[the goddamn batman]

picard made tons of hard choices, and had some not so boyscouty stuff in his past. and dealing with Q is never easy.

Very true. I love Picard. Just watched the episode where they have the cardassians on board teh enterprise... that's a great one.

[Rabid Trekkie]

There's a bunch of DS9 episodes about wrong for the right reasons.

That's one of the things that made DS9 great; it wasn't normal Trek. Yet, being probably more loved than either series before it just doesn't matter to anyone, as they went back to the norm with Voyager.

I think part of the problem with Voyager was that for a large portion of its run it was on at the same time as DS9. I mean only so many writers to go around. But yeah DS9 was awesome and there were several episodes of Voyager that made me want to take out my eyes with an icecream scoop. But in all fairness even Voyager wasn't as bad as the first two seasons of Enterprise.

Though no Trek beats the original, Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley were amazing and an incredible cast of supporting actors.

The real problem with a Voyager movie, like was stated earlier, is that its story is over. Whether good or bad, the story finished. And while I'd like to see the characters again (like Tuvok in the Titan books, or maybe a reunion tv-movie) there's no real reason for the old gang to have an adventure together.

[Tazirai]

What gets me is that DS9 is generally well respected among fans, but generally ignored in the books, movies, and by the powers that be behind Star Trek altogether. I have no idea why, since they can't be oblivious to how fans have grown to love and respect it. I could have sworn there were quotes from Armin Shimmerman and Rene Auborjonois (sp?) that basically said the thing. Yes its continuity heavy but the characters could easily work in a movie/TV movie with little explanation of who they are, so long as the story itself isn't continuity heavy. It'd love to see Sisko and Kira working together again like old times.

But getting back to the point of this thread...Janeway is effectively out the picture what with being promoted, unless she pulls a Kirk and takes a demotion, which I doubt. So Chakotay and Paris interacting with each other could be interesting, though I never really liked Paris and Chakotay came off as a watered down Riker clone. They'd have to do some major tinkering to make a Voyager movie work, but the problem is because people remember the series not so fondly they may not give any such movie a chance.


Exactly I'd much rather a story on the Emissary, rather than Janeway's bunch. It isnt the fact that she's a woman. She got stuck with a shitty show. She had high points but MANY more low points.

[Cyke]

I'm sorry, but there can't be a fifth quadrant. There can't be a third half. That's not being anal. That's respect for the language.

Sorry, but when has Trek *ever* had respect for the language?

I mean, one episode of TNG revolved around a 'baryon sweep.' Baryons are heavy subatomic particles that are a part of every single piece of matter in existance. A real 'baryon sweep' would've vaporized the Enterprise, making it very, very hard for Picard to fight terrorists by himself. That is, IF Trek had any respect for the language. Photon torpedoes are basically the same way, too, wherein the name does nothing about its function except to sound cool or convenient and nothing more.

Or, let's think of this in modern terms: hemisphere. Hemi means half. Two halves make a whole. Yet there are four hemispheres on the whole of the Earth. Harumph. Going from the Earth to the galaxy, the galaxy itself may have more to it than meets the eye, not just a roughly flat shape, but also another extra-dimensional shape along with it.

[Nate Grey]

Sorry, but when has Trek *ever* had respect for the language?

I mean, one episode of TNG revolved around a 'baryon sweep.' Baryons are heavy subatomic particles that are a part of every single piece of matter in existance. A real 'baryon sweep' would've vaporized the Enterprise, making it very, very hard for Picard to fight terrorists by himself. That is, IF Trek had any respect for the language. Photon torpedoes are basically the same way, too, wherein the name does nothing about its function except to sound cool or convenient and nothing more.

Or, let's think of this in modern terms: hemisphere. Hemi means half. Two halves make a whole. Yet there are four hemispheres on the whole of the Earth. Harumph. Going from the Earth to the galaxy, the galaxy itself may have more to it than meets the eye, not just a roughly flat shape, but also another extra-dimensional shape along with it.

Bingo. Its called technobabble for a reason cause its full of buzz words and stuff that sounds cool but falls apart under scrutiny. So its kinda, I guess, ironic, we're trying to apply logic (and language) to something that by its very definition leaves little to no room for it.

[Cyke]

Bingo. Its called technobabble for a reason cause its full of buzz words and stuff that sounds cool but falls apart under scrutiny. So its kinda, I guess, ironic, we're trying to apply logic (and language) to something that by its very definition leaves little to no room for it.

Agreed. I would cringe whenever there was an episode revolving around a 'parallel dimension,' if only because the writers would get the definition of 'dimension' wrong, but that nitpick makes the episode no less fun.

[Dr. Banner]

Or, let's think of this in modern terms: hemisphere. Hemi means half. Two halves make a whole. Yet there are four hemispheres on the whole of the Earth. Harumph.

You're misinterpreting the term, here. When talking about a hemisphere, every single time, you are always talking about half the earth, no matter what. Northern and southern hemisphere is talking about the top and lower half.

Western and Eastern is the more arbitrary Prime Miridian, but still only talking about half of the earth.

At no times are the two interchangable referencing 1/4th of the earth. Always a half.

But I digress.

We'll never see a DS9 movie or a Voyager movie. To the studio eye, no Star Trek was the ratings juggernaut like TNG, watched by everybody it seems back in the day. And those movies have failed. If those movied failed, and ratings (by no means accurate, but it's what studios/networks use) showed that people weren't as into the other Treks, the only real option they have is to use the TOS era, as it seems less risky (and studios HATE risk), the characters are already well known (probably most familiar, globally... everyone knows Spock, much more likely than, say, Tuvok) and the last time we saw those characters onscreen money was made.

It's the only logical choice, from a stuio perspective.

[Thorlief]

from Latin quadrens, quadrant-, a fourth part;

duh dude you knew we weren' using the word literally. Thanks anyway for the explanation

[Thorlief]

I think part of the problem with Voyager was that for a large portion of its run it was on at the same time as DS9. I mean only so many writers to go around. But yeah DS9 was awesome and there were several episodes of Voyager that made me want to take out my eyes with an icecream scoop. But in all fairness even Voyager wasn't as bad as the first two seasons of Enterprise.

Though no Trek beats the original, Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley were amazing and an incredible cast of supporting actors.

The real problem with a Voyager movie, like was stated earlier, is that its story is over. Whether good or bad, the story finished. And while I'd like to see the characters again (like Tuvok in the Titan books, or maybe a reunion tv-movie) there's no real reason for the old gang to have an adventure together.


by the same logic we could say DS9 is over as well, expecially for the main character. It had a plot running for seven seasons and ended in the last episode.

the real main problem was the cast, or the characters to be more specific. I've never seen so much weak personalities, so much lack of developing. Paris was a complete joke..and so it was Kim. What's interesting about those two? Nothing. Heck, even Kim playing a sax- which is one of the most annoying musical instruments ever in my opinion- was like a statement sculpted on ancient stone: "This is a metaphor for the whole serie". The serie ran out of steam pretty quickly, if it ever had any to begin with, and while I agree with you about the first two seasons of TNG you can't deny the fact Data and Picard alone were able to save the show, because both were wonderful characters played by wonderful actors.
And Chakotay? He was good at making wooden stuff. Too bad he was a wooden piece himself. He had no ideas, he was the captain's dog, he was simply boring.

[Cyke]

You're misinterpreting the term, here. When talking about a hemisphere, every single time, you are always talking about half the earth, no matter what. Northern and southern hemisphere is talking about the top and lower half.

Western and Eastern is the more arbitrary Prime Miridian, but still only talking about half of the earth.

At no times are the two interchangable referencing 1/4th of the earth. Always a half.



I think you misunderstand my overall point. The term 'hemisphere' was invented in the late 1300s. A century later, Columbus 'showed' Europe that the world was round. The term 'hemisphere' was then used with a new perspective latched onto it as an unforeseen result. Point being: just because it's called one thing doesn't make it literal, as definitions can change. I know what 'hemisphere' means in the here and now, but centuries ago, it had different connotations, and definitely not on a global scale. Why can't the same thing happen for the word 'quadrant?'

If it turns out that there's a seventh spatial dimension to the Milky Way that contains just as much space as the Alpha Quadrant, wouldn't that be a quadrant, too? More to the point, what's in a name, especially when it comes to Trek? In the real world, we're finding out more and more things to think and consider about the Milky Way in any sorts of ways, with space, shape and perspective being part of it.

We shouldn't be shooting down possibilities simply because they don't stick to a definition (as definitions can always change) or because of a desire to make things too literal, especially in fiction and especially in science (and most especially in Star Trek. Anti-time, anyone?).

[mattx110]

by the same logic we could say DS9 is over as well, expecially for the main character. It had a plot running for seven seasons and ended in the last episode.

the real main problem was the cast, or the characters to be more specific. I've never seen so much weak personalities, so much lack of developing. Paris was a complete joke..and so it was Kim. What's interesting about those two? Nothing. Heck, even Kim playing a sax- which is one of the most annoying musical instruments ever in my opinion- was like a statement sculpted on ancient stone: "This is a metaphor for the whole serie". The serie ran out of steam pretty quickly, if it ever had any to begin with, and while I agree with you about the first two seasons of TNG you can't deny the fact Data and Picard alone were able to save the show, because both were wonderful characters played by wonderful actors.
And Chakotay? He was good at making wooden stuff. Too bad he was a wooden piece himself. He had no ideas, he was the captain's dog, he was simply boring.

paris was pretty interesting i thought. he was like a pre-captain-ranked picard. still working off his past and still impulsive.
he even had a name signifying "french origin" in case we didn't get it.
neelix (when he wasn't turning the episode into a comedy) was good, and really not an idiot. tuvok had some good episodes but yea, vulcans and robots had been done before, and he only brought something new when they made him less vulcany.

[marshal99]

by the same logic we could say DS9 is over as well, expecially for the main character. It had a plot running for seven seasons and ended in the last episode.

the real main problem was the cast, or the characters to be more specific. I've never seen so much weak personalities, so much lack of developing. Paris was a complete joke..and so it was Kim. What's interesting about those two? Nothing. Heck, even Kim playing a sax- which is one of the most annoying musical instruments ever in my opinion- was like a statement sculpted on ancient stone: "This is a metaphor for the whole serie". The serie ran out of steam pretty quickly, if it ever had any to begin with, and while I agree with you about the first two seasons of TNG you can't deny the fact Data and Picard alone were able to save the show, because both were wonderful characters played by wonderful actors.
And Chakotay? He was good at making wooden stuff. Too bad he was a wooden piece himself. He had no ideas, he was the captain's dog, he was simply boring.

To be fair , DS9 casts in the early seasons 1 & 2 were equally bland , dax & kira were interchangeable useless females who does nothing other than provide eye candy , o'brien is o'brien , not exactly engaging , dr bashir is boring , he's like the DS9 version of barkley. Only Odo & Sisko is good and Quark to provide the comic relief.
However , the storylines in the later seasons like the dominion war etc provide the backbone for the series that made the series a fan favorite.

Voyager isn't that bad a series and i do liked the cast , it has a interesting mix of characters which isn't bad in the least.

[Thorlief]

paris was pretty interesting i thought. he was like a pre-captain-ranked picard. still working off his past and still impulsive.
he even had a name signifying "french origin" in case we didn't get it.
neelix (when he wasn't turning the episode into a comedy) was good, and really not an idiot. tuvok had some good episodes but yea, vulcans and robots had been done before, and he only brought something new when they made him less vulcany.

I tend to disagree with Neelix and Paris being interesting. What was so interesting about Neelix? An alien cook-counsellor, annoying sense of humour and no backstory. Yes, we were introduced to his world but other than that? Seven seasons are enough to make some good episodes about him, but I don't remember any

Paris was a excellent pilot with shady past. But yet the writers didn't write anything interesting about it, at least for me

To be fair , DS9 casts in the early seasons 1 & 2 were equally bland , dax & kira were interchangeable useless females who does nothing other than provide eye candy , o'brien is o'brien , not exactly engaging , dr bashir is boring , he's like the DS9 version of barkley. Only Odo & Sisko is good and Quark to provide the comic relief.
However , the storylines in the later seasons like the dominion war etc provide the backbone for the series that made the series a fan favorite.

Voyager isn't that bad a series and i do liked the cast , it has a interesting mix of characters which isn't bad in the least.

O' Brien can not be engaging, but had his share of great episodes. Plus he got a actually good sense of humour, and Meaney's acting was always superb

You can find Kira and Dax being similar in the first seasons, but I personally can't see many similarities. Kira has always been a soldier with strong attitude, and I started liking her after watching "Duet", which was one of the best episodes in the whole serie in my opinion.
Dax on the other hand was never that interesting to me, but she was well developed during the serie.

the key is in character developing. Kira, Sisko, Quark, Odo and Bashir' stories had an excellent progression..in Voyager every freaking character was the same after seven seasons, only more pissed off.

[Nate Grey]

Kira was a hothead, Dax was pretty much "I don't care, I'm just happy to be here." They evolved beyond that in latter episodes, but that was their "core" concepts and as such made it impossible to see them as "interchangable."

Bashire as DS9's Barclay? Really? Bashire was the eager green/Lothario character. He evolved beyond THAT but that was him was in the begining.

Speaking of which, I hate Star Trek needs these Lothario type characters, but I guess they need the potential for a crew member to screw an alien at some point, so...

Paris...yeah, his shady past should have been explored much, and I did like he got demoted and put in the brig for thirty days that one time (though oddly I could see Janeway doing something similar, but whatever), but beyond that I saw no use for the character. He was the Lothario type character of THAT show, so I guess to that end the writers thought it would be interesting to show him "meet his match" in B'Lanna. Boy were they wrong, but we were held hostage to that mentality for...five years? Their relationship always felt artificial to me, but the writers seem to think it was the highlight of the show. Again, had they focused on a Chakotay/ Seven of Nine 'ship instead of pulling it out their butts in the final ep, that would have been far more interesting instead.

Neelix was basically Quark without the greed, meaning he was annoying without an edge to compensate. He did have ONE memorable episode that, if I were to make a top ten best of list for Voyager (a hard feat in and of itself), it would always be on that list. I am speaking of, of course, "Mortal Coil." In it, Neelix died (yay!) but was brought back to life thanks to Seven (boo!), and was depressed that he didn't remember an afterlife. He struggled with the fact that there may not be one, that when you die that's it, there wasn't a Talaxian heaven or whatever. I thought that was good stuff.

"Tuvix" gets an honorable mention, but that was technically a Kes ep.

[The Mutt]

Tom Wright should have won an Emmy for Tuvix.
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