Characters Whose Popularity I Don't Quite Get

[Gail Simone]

First, Elektra.

Miller's a genius, but everything about Elektra feels fake to me, and is a definite beginning for his history of weirdly false and forced female characters. Worse yet, she's the template for a dozen invicible bore-a-thons. I just don't get her.

Emma Frost

Even Grant couldn't quite make her interesting to me.


Metamorpho

Waid loves him. I don't get him at all.


I'm posting these because I USED to feel this way about Martian Manhunter, til I got to write him and now I love him. So the possibility of changing my mind is there!

How about you?

[Karl J Barnes]

I loved Elektra , when she was first introduced, but yeah, she's pretty much a yawner.

I'd have to say that I WANT to like Martian Manhunter, but I feel that he is redundant as a super-hero. I'd like to see more of a sci-fi aspect of him than having him fighting along side Superman and the like.

[Zeb Oswalt]

I don't know writers can come and go and change my fav character to the one I really hate. I was a fan of Yellow Jacket as a kid till they made him a wife beater. And others that were messed up for no reason. And Moon knight a character I never cared about since I was 14 was made great. So it depends on the writer And what they do with him or her. but, this is just my opion. Though I have yet to like Wolvrine. Bright yellow and blue and he's the master of camafloge?

[shrike]

Batman.

Wolverine.

Most 'anti heroes'... Mystique, Sabretooth, Punisher, Emma Frost, etc.

Some of the silver age hero teams... Sea Devils, Challengers of the Unknown, Cave Carson and company... very bland and boring. I do like Metal Men though...

Gail, do you still dislike Elongated Man? Have you ever seen The Thin Man....?

[DocAbsurd]

Punisher. I read his first appearance in Amazing Spider-man and most of the guests he made in that time; I got one of the mini-series and a few scattered issues including the ones that were supposed to 'define' him. Still don't get him.

Used to love Wolverine, back when he was surrounded in mystery and was basically the Kevin Bacon of the MU. Seems the more they try to define him, the less interesting he becomes. He's gone from 'mysterious' to 'confusing'.

Metamorpho needs to be more like a super-powered Indiana Jones. His character has been floundering for decades, especially when he's mixed in with too many metas. I love the character, but his execution is way off.

[Sabrinaset]

The Sentry. I mean .... why?

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Darkseid. In comics, anyway.

I've talked about this before elsewhere, but in the Timmverse, he was probably the biggest, most fearsome badguy they had available to them; he was even capable of truly bringing out the worst & ugliest in his enemies (just look at Superman in S:TAS's "Legacy" & JL's "Twilight"). But-- again, talked about this before-- in the comics, it just feels like yet another case of "I think Timm & Co. know something here these guys don't" with Ol' 'Seid. It just seems he gets taken out way too easily & too often to really warrant the huge stature he's supposedly given on the DCU villain-totem pole (the Superman titles are perhaps the biggest offenders here).

Kirby's old 4th World tales were recently recommended to me because of this; and now that I can afford to buy them, maybe I'll finally be able be able to see something cool with him outside those shows for once.

And I think I used to get Wolverine, but now don't.

[DLFerguson]

Agree completely about Elektra. She was fine when she was first introduced. She served her purpose, was decently killed off and should have stayed dead.

I never liked The Punisher. The only people who do like him must never have read Don Pendleton's Executioner series.

The Sentry started out as a joke and should have stayed that way. If more so-called 'comic book fans' took the time to know more about the history of comic books in general and Marvel in particular they'd have never been taken in by the gag.

[The Mutt]

Frank Castle is about as much of a character as Hurricane Katrina. The Punisher is a costume, a concept and a character, in that order.

Which is not to say that a good writer can't write great stories with The Punisher as a central figure. I love Ennis's Punisher comic, but they aren't stories about The Punisher. He's just the ticking clock that drives the plot.

Any character is just one good writer away from redemption.

That said, I never got the luv for Venom, Gambit, or any incarnation ever of the Teen Titans.

[Corrina]

I loved Elektra , when she was first introduced, but yeah, she's pretty much a yawner.



I read the first Elektra stories when they came out and really liked her. But since the original death, which really ended her character arc--person consumed by revenge and courting death finally gets her wish--she's been totally uninteresting.

Emma Frost is someone I don't get, either. Add Gambit, too.

Also, I don't get the whole Kate Spencer, Manhunter. Sorry, I just don't. And the kid in jeopardy plot didn't help me, either.

[TomStillwell]

Any character Rob Liefeld created.

Aside from the issues of his art, all of his characters are 2 dimensional cut-outs of existing characters.

Sure, characters that are on a similiar premise as an existing character can be great with well thought backstory. Take Samaritian for example. At first glance he's a knock off of Superman but getting into the story you get a new twist and interesting history that makes Samaritian a unique character all its own.

You never get that with a Liefeld character. You don't get any kind of story that makes them something new. Just pouches and snarling mouths.

Those Youngblood fans that have hung around for years just boggle me.

[hangthedj]

First, Elektra.

Miller's a genius, but everything about Elektra feels fake to me, and is a definite beginning for his history of weirdly false and forced female characters. Worse yet, she's the template for a dozen invicible bore-a-thons. I just don't get her.

Emma Frost

Even Grant couldn't quite make her interesting to me.


Metamorpho

Waid loves him. I don't get him at all.


I'm posting these because I USED to feel this way about Martian Manhunter, til I got to write him and now I love him. So the possibility of changing my mind is there!

How about you?

I didn't get Emma Frost either, until I read Whedon's take on her. Now I love her.

[Super Sonic]

Any character Rob Liefeld created.

Aside from the issues of his art, all of his characters are 2 dimensional cut-outs of existing characters.

Sure, characters that are on a similiar premise as an existing character can be great with well thought backstory. Take Samaritian for example. At first glance he's a knock off of Superman but getting into the story you get a new twist and interesting history that makes Samaritian a unique character all its own.

You never get that with a Liefeld character. You don't get any kind of story that makes them something new. Just pouches and snarling mouths.

Those Youngblood fans that have hung around for years just boggle me.

.....Deadpool?

[Gingold]

Cassandra Cain, Cassie Sandsmark, Spoiler, Arrowette, Superboy- other than Tim Drake and Bart Allen, none of the 90s era New Generation DC heroes ever really appealed to me at all.

Deadpool. Even when his book was occasionally funny, I never got the appeal of the character at all.

Gambit, Cable, Bishop and all the 90s X-crap.

Ghost Rider. He's a cool visual, to be sure, but certainly not an interesting character.

Gwen Stacy. MJ was always the better character and match for Peter. Gwen had no personality.

[Karl J Barnes]

That said, I never got the luv for Venom, Gambit, or any incarnation ever of the Teen Titans.

I agree with the first two. Venom is gotten to the point of being ridiculous and Gambit's swarmy Cajun charm, rat-ass accent and over-the-top angst...well, he is the one X-Men character that bugs just by the mention of his name.

Though I truely adore Marv Wolfman's and George Perez's Teen Titans.

[Karl J Barnes]

Cassandra Cain, Cassie Sandsmark, Spoiler, Arrowette, Superboy- other than Tim Drake and Bart Allen, none of the 90s era New Generation DC heroes ever really appealed to me at all.

Deadpool. Even when his book was occasionally funny, I never got the appeal of the character at all.

Gambit, Cable, Bishop and all the 90s X-crap.

Ghost Rider. He's a cool visual, to be sure, but certainly not an interesting character.

Gwen Stacy. MJ was always the better character and match for Peter. Gwen had no personality.

Yeah, Gwen was breezy,lighter than air type of character. Not much of anything, the perfect boring girlfriend. MJ on the other hand is vivacous, fun character to read about.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

First, Elektra.

Miller's a genius, but everything about Elektra feels fake to me, and is a definite beginning for his history of weirdly false and forced female characters. Worse yet, she's the template for a dozen invicible bore-a-thons. I just don't get her.

Emma Frost

Even Grant couldn't quite make her interesting to me.


Metamorpho

Waid loves him. I don't get him at all.


I'm posting these because I USED to feel this way about Martian Manhunter, til I got to write him and now I love him. So the possibility of changing my mind is there!

How about you?


Agreed on Elektra & Metamorpho......Emma Frost I liked, back during the early days of the Hellfire Club and such (Come to think of it, I loved everything about the Hellfire Club back then)...........I'm sure Frost has changed, lately, due to her being a part of the X-Men now, but I haven't read any of the stuff, so I wouldn't know.




That said, I never got the luv for Venom, Gambit, or any incarnation ever of the Teen Titans.

I liked Venom in the beginning, but starting with the whole Carnage fiasco, then later turning Venom into some sort of anti-hero, I thought he had been overdone to the point of ridiculousness. Marvel saw the popularity in Venom, and tried to cash in by giving him his own titles and such.

Gambit was alright the first few times he appeared, as well, but I tired of him fairly quickly.

I liked some of what Geoff Johns did with the Teen Titans, but never really understood the popularity of Wolfman's run back in the 80's (Didn't care for Wolfman's writing on the series, nor for Perez's art).




Also, I don't get the whole Kate Spencer, Manhunter. Sorry, I just don't. And the kid in jeopardy plot didn't help me, either.


Blasphemy! I loved everything about Andreyko's run on Manhunter. Including, of course, the main character, herself.



Any character Rob Liefeld created.

Aside from the issues of his art, all of his characters are 2 dimensional cut-outs of existing characters.

You don't get any kind of story that makes them something new. Just pouches and snarling mouths.

Those Youngblood fans that have hung around for years just boggle me.

I can't agree with you more......Aside from pouches & snarling mouths, you forgot to mention that whole glimmering single-eye thing he had with a bunch of his characters. I never understood the purpose of that, was it supposed to look "cool" or something? First, there was Cable, then Shaft, then who knows who else had that stupid glowing single-eye thing going.

And I would put Cable, all of his Image/Extreme creations, Deadpool, Gideon & co, Domino, etc. in as shitty characters Liefeld created that I don't understand the popularity of......But, at least with Cable, there were some points in his run that were alright, mainly due to certain writers, but I never cared all that much for him.

Deadpool is just one of those characters where I don't think any writer could make portray him in a way I'd find appealing. I know Gail's runs on Deadpool & Agent X are pretty popular, but I've read a few issues here and there, and not even Gail's work could make me like the character.

[Cayman]

Cable, Lobo, Guy Gardner, Hal Jordan

[Karl J Barnes]

Cable, Lobo, Guy Gardner, Hal Jordan

Agreed.Agreed.Agreed(Though I did love him during his JLI days). Sort of agree(The way that he is written now,just doesn't jibe with the Hal Jordan that I used to read about.).

[Calamas]

Bizarro.

I understand that there has to be something to the concept as Bizarro and Bizarro World have slipped into the mainstream lexicon, but I still don’t get it. Even conceding that the character came from an era where Superman villains existed to solely confound and frustrate Kal, why is he still around today? Most outright comedy in superhero comics is frowned upon; his presence generally grinds any serious story to a halt; and, when he has a major, talking part in a comic, his dialogue gives me a headache. I recognize that writers enjoy using the character but it is usually fan reaction that determines whether a character becomes reoccurring. Obviously most fans see something I don’t. Because I see a one-off that should never had resurfaced again.

[TomStillwell]

.....Deadpool?

Deadpool has worked out okay because of other people writing him.

I could take or leave him. He's been overexposed.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

Cable, Lobo, Guy Gardner, Hal Jordan


Ah, how did I forget Lobo? The popularity of that character truly boggles the mind.

[Cayman]

I tend to like second and third stringers more than the big guns though.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Come to think of it, I don't really much care about the X-Folk in general, either.

Back when I did like Logan (the early-to-mid 90s, natch), he seemed to get so much damn attention that the others just seemed like Secondbananaville by comparison. So when I-- like others-- eventually got bored with Wolvie, that was pretty much it for me and the X-Men comics (though I did watch the first film on a whim once & liked it fine).

[NathanielEssex]

Wolverine (I used to like him in the 80's-early 90's, though).

Lobo

Deathstroke

The new, alpha-male version of Hal Jordan

I used to love both Hal and Logan when I was young, but these two have changed...it makes we wish they would get knocked down a couple pegs, get those egos in check.

[Jack Zodiac]

First, Elektra.

Miller's a genius, but everything about Elektra feels fake to me, and is a definite beginning for his history of weirdly false and forced female characters. Worse yet, she's the template for a dozen invicible bore-a-thons. I just don't get her.

She was a limited use character when he created her, because he knew exactly where she was going. Basically, she was there only to drive Daredevil's progression through Miller's penultimate arc, and was never meant to be an independent character. She hasn't had very strong characterization, even from Miller, but it's only gotten worse the further she's been taken out of her original setting. As a story, I didn't find a thing wrong with Miller's ending for her, even if as a character it didn't make her very strong, just memorable.

Emma Frost

Even Grant couldn't quite make her interesting to me.

I concur. She was never a very interesting character, just a piece of ass in white leather for Claremont's uninspired "Hellfire Club" stories, and everything since has been played on the angle that she's a mean bitch and doesn't give a shit what you think about her. Quite the trade off for loveable Jean Grey.

Metamorpho

Waid loves him. I don't get him at all.

Ah, I love Rex. I love him because he's the purest kind of superhero, like Adam Strange and Ralph Dibny. He's an adventurer at heart, he stumbled upon his superpowers by chance, and he's an adventurer even moreso after the fact. And like Adam and Ralph, he's a family man, often being accompanied by his wife on his adventures. He's pure pulp action hero, but he hasn't been used to that effect in a long, long time, which is a shame.

I'm posting these because I USED to feel this way about Martian Manhunter, til I got to write him and now I love him. So the possibility of changing my mind is there!

How'd you use to feel about J'onn?

I think a lot of the best characterization for him has come from Ostrander in his short-lived series, and from Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League. but I think the greatest example of how to understand Martian Manhunter is Darwyn Cooke's New Frontier. Cooke gets superheroes as a whole, but he got all of those character more than most people who've been writing them for years, but most especially Martian Manhunter (and Hal Jordan).

How about you?

Really, I can understand how people find most characters popular, because upon their creation, most comic book characters are written in a specific way to be either liked or disliked by fans. Some people love how unbelievably altruistic Superman is and how selfless he acts and how "cheesy" his stories are (even if that's not the case but a rather bare bones examination of the character), while other people thing he's too lame or uninteresting because of those traits.

What I don't get is how people can find certain writers' characterizations of certain characters popular. Like Winick's Nightwing, or his Metamorpho (which I think is absolutely horrible). Or Meltzer's Black Canary and Hawkgirl and Arsenal. Or Heinberg and Picoult's Nemesis (though I think Heinberg did the character some sort of justice by not making him a total fucking maroon). I don't get how people can like a writer's characterization of characters established to think, act, and speak differently than that writer is writing them.

[JKCarrier]

I never liked Martian Manhunter either. People complain that Superman ought to be able to solve any problem in two seconds, so what do you do with a guy who has all of Superman's powers, PLUS Plastic Man's, PLUS Professor Xavier's? Later attempts to turn him into some kind of philosophical wise man just made him more annoying ("Not only can I do anything, but I know everything too!"). Of all the characters in the Giffen League, this is the one they let live? Bleh.

[Cayman]

Oh yeah, Jean Grey.

[cactusmaac]

The Legion Of Superheroes

They just don't strike me as being very interesting,

[Aggie]

Oh yeah, Jean Grey.

i second this and would like to add superman...there i've said it...and while i'm at it...the whole summers family, i mean hell, scott is boring and completely uninteresting, so why on earth introduce even more boring and uninteresting relatives??

[Cayman]

Also, Genis Vell.

[sabongero]

First, Elektra.

Miller's a genius, but everything about Elektra feels fake to me, and is a definite beginning for his history of weirdly false and forced female characters. Worse yet, she's the template for a dozen invicible bore-a-thons. I just don't get her.

Emma Frost

Even Grant couldn't quite make her interesting to me.


Metamorpho

Waid loves him. I don't get him at all.


I'm posting these because I USED to feel this way about Martian Manhunter, til I got to write him and now I love him. So the possibility of changing my mind is there!

How about you?

I can't comment about Metamorpho as I have only watched him once in a cartoon show of JLU.

As for Emma Frost, the only thing I can say about her popularity is the way she is presented as a bitch both in written character and in illustration by artist. Her costume after all is eye-candy, so that visual image can appeal to certain fan boys.

But on a more deeper level, Emma Frost is the type of girl/woman who is clearly very appealing to young men. Why is that so ? She is a bitch you say ? For one thing, guys actually love women who are self-confident, assertive, think for herself, handle her business, take charge, competent, and actually tell him to stop the foolishness. And Emma Frost in all her manipulative ways actually presents that.

That is just my opinion of course.

[Kevinroc]

Also, Genis Vell.

That one I could explain rather easily.

Did you ever read Peter David's Captain Marvel series? It started off as something of a comedy where Genis was the naive super hero that had to be lectured by his partner, Rick Jones. It sort of had a Young Justice vibe, except the humor was for a slightly older audience. Even when the series was relaunched and Genis driven insane by his powers, it was still an utterly fascinating series.

I do think he wasn't quite as interesting in Thunderbolts but them's the breaks. So I guess I'd say the answer to this question was "Peter David" and leave it at that.

[rick]

I have never been able to understand what those folks out there who are fans of the Cassandra Caine, version of Batgirl see in the character.

Personally she has always come across to me as one of the most derivative, unappealing, May Sueish characters ever put on the comic page and I just don’t get the love.

[NickThompson]

I like a lot of the characters listed so far :)

[the4thpip]

First, Elektra.




Metamorpho

Waid loves him. I don't get him at all.




Have you read the Showcase Presents collection of his old stories?

I was amazed how different they were for the time and how well they held up. Loved the bitchiness in the dialogs.

[rick]

That one I could explain rather easily.

Did you ever read Peter David's Captain Marvel series? It started off as something of a comedy where Genis was the naive super hero that had to be lectured by his partner, Rick Jones. It sort of had a Young Justice vibe, except the humor was for a slightly older audience. Even when the series was relaunched and Genis driven insane by his powers, it was still an utterly fascinating series.

I do think he wasn't quite as interesting in Thunderbolts but them's the breaks. So I guess I'd say the answer to this question was "Peter David" and leave it at that.


This actually makes sense, to me as a person who really hated the Genis character, since I have never enjoyed David’s writing.

I can certainly understand that if you like the writer, you’d like the character.

[Monkey Boy]

I can't stand Iron Man, Cable, Wolverine, or Superman. In my opinion these are some of the most boring characters out there.

[Pink Bat Max]

The Hulk.

I mean, i get and appriciate all the themes he embodies, but at the end of the day 'Hulk smash? Who effin' cares?'

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I have never been able to understand what those folks out there who are fans of the Cassandra Caine, version of Batgirl see in the character.

Personally she has always come across to me as one of the most derivative, unappealing, May Sueish characters ever put on the comic page and I just don’t get the love.

That's another one I forgot to mention......I think she's an alright character in terms of her fighting ability, but everything else about her just puts me to sleep. Those stupid facial expressions through her mask, the body expressions, etc.....I found no appeal in all this. She was just boring, as was/is her comic series.

The Legion Of Superheroes

They just don't strike me as being very interesting,

I liked them in the Elseworlds 2-issue limited series by Mark Farmer & Alan Davis, called Superboy's Legion.

[Kevinroc]

The Hulk.

I mean, i get and appriciate all the themes he embodies, but at the end of the day 'Hulk smash? Who effin' cares?'

The Hulk is awesome. He is one of the most intriguing characters in comics. He may have a limited power-set, but he can be anything a writer wants him to be. He can be the hero, he can be the monster, he can be as smart as Bruce Banner or as dumb as a rock. And you can't say a writer is really changing his established characterization since his entire character is built on being unpredictable.

[shadow knight]

MM is basically Superman clone done bad. His personality is almost none existent, the powers he shares with Superman are all at a much lower level, and finallhy I never understood the need to kill his whole race. Which further
solified his clone status to Superman. Don't get me wrong I don't hate the character, I just see what he brings to the DCU except for a green skin that make him important or necessary.

[CBikle]

Emma Frost

I'm not a big X-Men fan, but I've liked how Morrisson and Bendis have written her; to me, she seems like what a liberated, sophisticated mutant woman might be like. She kind of has a "I'm homo-superior, the rules don't apply to me" attitude, which makes sense.

Also, she has a costume and an appearance that gets your attention.

Metamorpho

He's a visually-interesting character; everything from his logo to all the different shapes he can take in his transformations. Metamorpho also has a wacky supporting cast (Stagg, Sapphire and Java the caveman) that work for a character who is a reluctant super-hero.

I also like that the character also is a representation of DC's silver-age as well as the "Swinging 60's/Rat Pack" era.

Characters I don't really get are Lady Death/Evil Ernie. I can understand the short-term appeal of these characters, but I'm surprised they had as long a shelf-life as they had.

[cactusmaac]

I have never been able to understand what those folks out there who are fans of the Cassandra Caine, version of Batgirl see in the character.

Personally she has always come across to me as one of the most derivative, unappealing, May Sueish characters ever put on the comic page and I just don’t get the love.

I like her about eight times as much as Barbara Gordon Batgirl. Her fighting skills are designed to appeal to the videogame-playing, ninja-loving crowd but her back-story makes her really interesting. She's got a dramatically compelling reason to want to use her skills to make the world a better place and to sticking to the no-killing rule. Seeing her easily beat up world-class fighters while struggling to become a normal, sociable person was quite intriguing.

It's quite smart how they turned the Bruce Wayne character on its' head for Cassie Cain: billionaire white male sets out to avenge death of loved parents by becoming a loner crimefighter while maintaining a facade of a social life vs disabled, abused Asian teen female who was created to become the ultimate assassin but abandoned that to become a hero who emphatically wanted friends and comrades.

[Cayman]

That one I could explain rather easily.

Did you ever read Peter David's Captain Marvel series? It started off as something of a comedy where Genis was the naive super hero that had to be lectured by his partner, Rick Jones. It sort of had a Young Justice vibe, except the humor was for a slightly older audience. Even when the series was relaunched and Genis driven insane by his powers, it was still an utterly fascinating series.

I do think he wasn't quite as interesting in Thunderbolts but them's the breaks. So I guess I'd say the answer to this question was "Peter David" and leave it at that.

All the issues I read were full of annoying bad jokes.

[Gingold]

I like her about eight times as much as Barbara Gordon Batgirl. Her fighting skills are designed to appeal to the videogame-playing, ninja-loving crowd but her back-story makes her really interesting. She's got a dramatically compelling reason to want to use her skills to make the world a better place and to sticking to the no-killing rule. Seeing her easily beat up world-class fighters while struggling to become a normal, sociable person

It's quite smart how they turned the Bruce Wayne character on its' head for Cassie Cain: billionaire white male sets out to avenge death of loved parents by becoming a loner crimefighter while maintaining a facade of a social life vs disabled, abused Asian teen female who was created to become the ultimate assassin but abandoned that to become a hero who emphatically wanted friends and comrades.

"Morally-conflicted mute ninja in bondage gear" could very well be an interesting concept to build a series around. I just don't think it works to take that and call it Batgirl. Similarly, "Protoplasmic alien merged with Earthborn angel merged with angsty teenager" doesn't work as Supergirl.

[Gingold]

All the issues I read were full of annoying bad jokes.

In a Peter David book? I'm shocked. Shocked.

[Kevinroc]

All the issues I read were full of annoying bad jokes.

Did you just try the series with the naive Genis? Didn't read the crazy Genis series?

I'm not saying the series was perfect or anything, I'm just wondering what you looked at.

[Pink Bat Max]

I wholeheartedly agree vis-a-vis Cassandra Cain. I know people adore her. I don't get it.

I'd have to add Kyle Rayner to this list.

[Francis]

The point about Cassandra Caine that gets me is that she is a purely kinasthetic character (some people see the world primarily in visual terms, some primarily in auditory terms, and some in kinasthetic). And there are very few mediums that kinasthetic senses can be conveyed in - the incompressable nature of time and visio-spatial emphasis of the TV makes it very hard there, and it takes a lot of words to convey kinasthetic senses in prose. Therefore Cassandra's way of seeing the world is more or less only possible to convey in comics - and there are a lot of people who see the world in a kinasthetic manner (although in a much less extreme version than Cass -this is comics after all). Meaning that she's like a breath of fresh air.

[Major Comma]

Aquaman
All versions of Spider Woman
ms marvel
the monica rambeau version of captain marvel

[estee]

the monica rambeau version of captain marvel

Read Nextwave: Agents of Hate...an absolutely fantastic book with Monica in it and she's never been better. ;)

[Hybrid2]

The Sentry. I mean .... why?

Quoted for true.

And he's a lame super-hero.
He let people die left and right.

The Void thing just make it worse.

[Hybrid2]

Hal Jordan

Oh Yes.Hal Jordan.

I realy dont get why people wanted him back so bad.

I got a few comics with him,including is origin.

Boring,arrogant,jerk come to mind.

Kyle was a lot more fun.

[Sabrinaset]

Oh Yes.Hal Jordan.

I realy dont get why people wanted him back so bad.

I got a few comics with him,including is origin.

Boring,arrogant,jerk come to mind.

Kyle was a lot more fun.

And yet you have people who say Johns doesn't "get" Jordan ... and I bought a bunch of silver-age GL's on eBay and I was like, what IS there to get? He's like a generic guy in a generic costume who's part of some generic military force led by some generic blue munchkins in skirts. Hal is actually sorta interesting now! I dunno ...

[Erebus]

Punisher
Sentry
Barry Allen
Superbo- err, I mean Conner

[Corrina]

I never got Hal Jordan either.

Until I read New Frontier. DC should just back up a truckful of money to Darwyn Cooke if he'd write that Hal Jordan for the long-term.

Also, for those who didn't get the Martian Manhunter, if you don't get him in New Frontier, you never will.

On Kate Spencer, I just...never understood her motivations at all. Honestly, I find less interesting than the Punisher, where at least I wouldn't have to put up with yet another kid in jeopardy (the arcs I read both had the kid getting kidnapped or hurt) or a lame retcon of Kate as yet another descendant of a JSA member.

Mostly, she just makes no emotional sense to me whatsoever.

Jean Grey worked until she committed suicide to save the universe from herself and atone for her murders. After that, no.

[The Great Grape]

Sentry : One of the worst takes on Superman to date.

Hyperion : No version of this character has excited me much.Yet another take on Superman whose appeal I don't feel.Even Mark Gruenwald's take on the Squadron Supreme was,for me,a case of getting more out of a story than the characters have in merit to put into it.I suspect Gru's tragic passing may have spiked interest in some.

Hellcat : I really hate when a character gets saved from Death and the first thing they say is "Cheese and Crackers." Patsy has some of the most annoying and repetitive dialogue in comics.

Quasar : He wasn't the main interest in his classic series to me.You could have plugged Adam Warlock into his spot and probably improved some stories.

Spawn : More a testament to 90's taste than a longterm interesting character,imo.

Jean Grey : Just plain unexciting.For a long time.

Supergirl : Why was she bought back? Crisis on Infinite Earths would have been a fitting enough finale.

Plastic Man : Why he also survived the crisis is beyond me.

Psylocke : To me,lacks substance.I don't understand why they changed her image so early on,either.

I'd tend to agree with Superboy and Manhunter,too.Though I think I find Kate more tolerable as a team member than a solo act.

[Bob Violence]

Oh Yes.Hal Jordan.

I realy dont get why people wanted him back so bad.
I got a few comics with him,including is origin.
Boring,arrogant,jerk come to mind.
Kyle was a lot more fun.
I agree, I can't understand the nostalgia. Hal was so boring, he made Barry Allen look like a wildman.

[PatrickG]

I agree, I can't understand the nostalgia. Hal was so boring, he made Barry Allen look like a wildman.

I'd be all for Hal taking Barry's place in COIE.

[Cayman]

Did you just try the series with the naive Genis? Didn't read the crazy Genis series?

I'm not saying the series was perfect or anything, I'm just wondering what you looked at.

I think all the issues I got were from the first series before the U Decide mess.

[Major Comma]

as far as i am concerned jean grey died on the moon and hasent been seen since

[Night Swordsman]

Spawn
Batman
Alfred
and to comit heresy on this board:
Wonder Woman.

[Joshua Pantalleresco]

Any character Rob Liefeld created.

Aside from the issues of his art, all of his characters are 2 dimensional cut-outs of existing characters.

Sure, characters that are on a similiar premise as an existing character can be great with well thought backstory. Take Samaritian for example. At first glance he's a knock off of Superman but getting into the story you get a new twist and interesting history that makes Samaritian a unique character all its own.

You never get that with a Liefeld character. You don't get any kind of story that makes them something new. Just pouches and snarling mouths.

Those Youngblood fans that have hung around for years just boggle me.

I disagree with that somewhat. Sure Youngblood and Supreme could easily have comparisons to other well known characters, that said, he did create Cable. Also, Prophet in my opinion was a very interesting character that was fleshed out very well. He's a bit of a riff on cable but what made him interesting was the whole concept of his beliefs and how they impacted the decisions he made. Chuck Dixon really explored this and did it well.

I think Liefeld's biggest problem is how he executes. But his concepts and takes on characters are actually quite interesting.

JP

[Gail Simone]

The point about Cassandra Caine that gets me is that she is a purely kinasthetic character (some people see the world primarily in visual terms, some primarily in auditory terms, and some in kinasthetic). And there are very few mediums that kinasthetic senses can be conveyed in - the incompressable nature of time and visio-spatial emphasis of the TV makes it very hard there, and it takes a lot of words to convey kinasthetic senses in prose. Therefore Cassandra's way of seeing the world is more or less only possible to convey in comics - and there are a lot of people who see the world in a kinasthetic manner (although in a much less extreme version than Cass -this is comics after all). Meaning that she's like a breath of fresh air.

Very well said, Francis. That's sort of how I came to view her as well!

Gail

[ninjapeps]

I'd have to add Kyle Rayner to this list.

I'm not much of a GL fan but Kyle's my favorite of the bunch simply because of his over-complicated constructs. Come on, you've got a device that can create anything you imagine and the best you can come up with is a giant green fist? At least Kyle knows enough to create crazy giant mecha armor when going up against White Martians.

[Pink Bat Max]

Yeah, but how much of his character was based on, "So what if I'm not Hal? Quit judging me"?

And hey, if a big boxing glove did the job, it did the job.

For my money, I'm more an Alan Scott kinda gal. Or John Stewart, for the 70's.

[PatrickG]

Yeah, but how much of his character was based on, "So what if I'm not Hal? Quit judging me"?

And hey, if a big boxing glove did the job, it did the job.

For my money, I'm more an Alan Scott kinda gal. Or John Stewart, for the 70's.

I don't remember those words ever being applied to Kyle except in stories where Hal or one of his old enemies showed up.

Heck, aside from a couple of brief flashbacks, when did Hal ever get referenced in Morrison's JLA? To a lot of people, that's the premiere take on Kyle.

[Cayman]

I don't remember those words ever being applied to Kyle except in stories where Hal or one of his old enemies showed up.

Heck, aside from a couple of brief flashbacks, when did Hal ever get referenced in Morrison's JLA? To a lot of people, that's the premiere take on Kyle.

Mostly when Dream told Kyle he would surpass Hal. Damn right!

[Major Comma]

actually i am a cassandra fan and very happy she is back to normal

[Red Jack]

Hal Jordan.

To this day I have no clue how he engendered so much affection in his fans.

[Magneto_X]

Darkseid. In comics, anyway.

I've talked about this before elsewhere, but in the Timmverse, he was probably the biggest, most fearsome badguy they had available to them; he was even capable of truly bringing out the worst & ugliest in his enemies (just look at Superman in S:TAS's "Legacy" & JL's "Twilight"). But-- again, talked about this before-- in the comics, it just feels like yet another case of "I think Timm & Co. know something here these guys don't" with Ol' 'Seid. It just seems he gets taken out way too easily & too often to really warrant the huge stature he's supposedly given on the DCU villain-totem pole (the Superman titles are perhaps the biggest offenders here).

Kirby's old 4th World tales were recently recommended to me because of this; and now that I can afford to buy them, maybe I'll finally be able be able to see something cool with him outside those shows for once.

And I think I used to get Wolverine, but now don't.

Read Legion's Great Darkness Saga and JLA's Rock of Ages.

That's Darkseid at his best. He's complex, insanely evil and frightening to behold.

Wolverine has become a parody of himself. He's no longer the strategist (re: Claremont) and skilled fighter like he used to be instead he's a mindless indestructible killing machine who rarely thinks but relies on his powers to solve every problem.

[Lester C.]

Tommy will never forgive me, but She Hulk. I love the stuff I read with Dan Slott, but I think that was more Dan than anything.

[Magneto_X]

She was a limited use character when he created her, because he knew exactly where she was going. Basically, she was there only to drive Daredevil's progression through Miller's penultimate arc, and was never meant to be an independent character. She hasn't had very strong characterization, even from Miller, but it's only gotten worse the further she's been taken out of her original setting. As a story, I didn't find a thing wrong with Miller's ending for her, even if as a character it didn't make her very strong, just memorable.

Maybe that's why few writers have been able to do much with her.

I see her as a more lethal, mysterious Black Widow type. Only Natasha has more defining character traits.

She's probably better off as supporting cast instead of a lead in a solo title.


How'd you use to feel about J'onn?

I think a lot of the best characterization for him has come from Ostrander in his short-lived series, and from Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League. but I think the greatest example of how to understand Martian Manhunter is Darwyn Cooke's New Frontier. Cooke gets superheroes as a whole, but he got all of those character more than most people who've been writing them for years, but most especially Martian Manhunter (and Hal Jordan).

I became a fan of J'onn in Morrison's JLA.

He's like a Superman that's actually complex. He also uses his brains more in situations then Supes does, too.

I liked how he's truly an "alien" to society who is and always will be an outsider. Love how he has multiple identities around the world (including a woman and a cat!).

What hurts him is his endless powers.

Really, I can understand how people find most characters popular, because upon their creation, most comic book characters are written in a specific way to be either liked or disliked by fans. Some people love how unbelievably altruistic Superman is and how selfless he acts and how "cheesy" his stories are (even if that's not the case but a rather bare bones examination of the character), while other people thing he's too lame or uninteresting because of those traits.


Superman comes across as difficult to write, IMO. He's "perfect" and that makes it looks like writers find it hard to put him into complex situations.

Few writers have made me like him. Waid in Birthright and Morrison in JLA got me to see his potential. Especially in the comic where he fought Azmodel.

[Pink Bat Max]

Hal Jordan.

To this day I have no clue how he engendered so much affection in his fans.

I think that with Green Lanterns, people tend to have loyalty to their first.

[Magneto_X]

actually i am a cassandra fan and very happy she is back to normal

I'm a Cass fan, too. When did she get back to normal?

[ninjapeps]

Heck, aside from a couple of brief flashbacks, when did Hal ever get referenced in Morrison's JLA? To a lot of people, that's the premiere take on Kyle.

These issues were where I first got introduced to Kyle and are my favorite appearances, not counting Sins of Youth. Anything else afterwards didn't feel quite as fun, especially Identity Crisis.

[Red Jack]

I think that with Green Lanterns, people tend to have loyalty to their first.


that bodes VERY well for Mr. Stewart.

[Major Comma]

Magneto X,
cass was being drugged by her dad but she is better now it played out in teen titans

[DLH1970]

Never liked Roy Harper. Speedy, Arsenal, Red Arrow whatever the hell they are calling him this week. Always seemed like a one note character to me.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

that bodes VERY well for Mr. Stewart.

Unless the first time someone read about John Stewart was through Green Lantern Mosaic (ugh).

But I know what you're referring to......He's one of the core members of the current JLA roster, and there's the JLU animated series.

[Jack Zodiac]

I thought Mosaic was great (though it was mostly because I though Cully's art kicked ass in it), and I hope they either start using John more outside of events and occassions that call for every hero in the DCU to show up, or make him an honorary Guardian again.

[Tyr]

Gambit, Cable, Bishop and all the 90s X-crap.


Well Now I kind of get Gambit's popularity, I'm not really a fan of his, but I can see why people like him.

I like Bishop, despite the fact he's a walking time paradox.

As for Cable, I'm afraid I have to admit as a teenager I was suckered into the whole Cable 90's fad, despite the fact I never new what his mutant powers were and he had virtually no personality whatsoever. Now with his comics are lying in comic bins virtually untouched. Yet people still claim he rules.

Since you brought up 90's crap I have to bring up the late 80's villain Apoclypse. Despite the fact that the X-men universe contains villains that are 10 times more interesting, this two dimensional excuse to turn the X-men universe into the Terminator still seems to be the be all end all of X-men villains. I just don't get why writers continue to use him, or for that matter why he sells X-men comics or merchandise.

As for Hal Jordon, not sure what the deal is with him either. I'm more of a Jon Stewart fan.

Finally I'd like to throw Luke Cage onto this character bonfire, but I'm not sure how popular he is.

[ninjapeps]

Magneto X,
cass was being drugged by her dad but she is better now it played out in teen titans

David Cain hasn't been seen since before her title ended, I think. At least, I don't recall seeing him since then. I think you mean Deathstroke.

whatever the case, Cass isn't back to normal yet. Titans East doesn't prove anything.

[Karl J Barnes]

Never liked Roy Harper. Speedy, Arsenal, Red Arrow whatever the hell they are calling him this week. Always seemed like a one note character to me.

Quoted for truth. I always thought Harper was as about as appealing as AquaLad,which is to say, not appealing at all.

[Lunar Daydreamer]

I really adored the Metamorpho Showcase.

I bought the book originally because it was Ramona Fradon (Goddess!) and I loved her art from way back when I was little and I had an Aquaman dinner mat (origin on one side, massive picture of Aquaman on a Sea horse on the other).

Back to the Showcase – there’s so much imagination in there, matched perfectly with great laughs and some superb storytelling. Good comics which haven’t aged a jot. ! It made me a fan of the character.

If you haven’t read it Gail, I’d recommend it utterly.

[beetlebum]

I don't have a problem with Emma Frost. She may be the Regina George, or Joan Collins if you will. It makes her both repulsive and intriguing. As for characters I don't get. Iron Man. Aquaman as well. I never liked Lois Lane. And I liked every single 90's X-Men character, except for Cable. I never understood the Punisher. To me he was nothing more than a violent sado-masochistic fantasy for geeky fan boys who felt powerless and Reagen revolutionaries. And Ollie. The only time I ever liked him was when he was with Dinah. With that being said I don't want them to be married.

[DavidAllred]

Jason Todd sits squarely at the top of the list for me. From the ridiculous resurrection to making him a key figure in Countdown, I dunno what DC is thinking. Why take something that clearly smells and try to tell fans that with enough perfume, you really can't tell shit from shinola?

The New Gods -- I never read anything about them that made me want to read more.

Legion of Superheroes -- I avoid titles in which they appear, I just never got into the whole "future" DCU thing.

New Aquaman -- I really liked the new origin that Kurt gave us in the first OYL title, but beyond that I don't get the love of an underwater Conan story.

[cactusmaac]

I used to dislike the Punisher but Ennis's MAX series changed my mind. There's something appealingly Old Testament-like about him in how he doesn't care for laws, apologies, technicalities and compromises getting in the way of delivering retribution to evil men.

[JKCarrier]

With Emma Frost, I like the fact that she jumped over to the hero side of the fence without losing any of her arrogance and attitude. She would probably be insufferable as a solo hero, but in a team setting it adds a bit of spice to the interactions.

[Pink Bat Max]

Garth Ennis.

Oh, wait. He's real?

[beetlebum]

I would go off on my tangit about how powerful assertive women are called bitches while men who embody those same trademarks are called ambitious, but I will not open Pandora's box. Especially since I spend so much time debating over the debasin' of religion.

[Pink Bat Max]

that bodes VERY well for Mr. Stewart.

I think so too. As well it should!

I have to admit, there's part of me that can't help but think of Hal as the 'real' Green Lantern. Now, I could go back and fabricate an argument based on 'Silver Age, Earth One, blah blah blah' but in all honesty, it's 'cause Hal was in the Superfriends.

I like John Stewart, and am happy to see him get his due.

[NathanielEssex]

To me he was nothing more than a violent sado-masochistic fantasy for geeky fan boys who felt powerless...

The exact same thing can be said for Wolverine. Many people I know who are BIG fans of his are people who were picked on a lot.

[Corrina]

The exact same thing can be said for Wolverine. Many people I know who are BIG fans of his are people who were picked on a lot.

I understood Wolverine's character but he never really appealled to me. At the time I was reading, I much preferred Scott to Logan. Or Bobby to Logan. Or Sean to Logan.

Okay, maybe not Gambit to Logan....

[Hodge]

First, Elektra.

Miller's a genius, but everything about Elektra feels fake to me, and is a definite beginning for his history of weirdly false and forced female characters. Worse yet, she's the template for a dozen invicible bore-a-thons. I just don't get her.

Emma Frost

Even Grant couldn't quite make her interesting to me.


Metamorpho

Waid loves him. I don't get him at all.


I'm posting these because I USED to feel this way about Martian Manhunter, til I got to write him and now I love him. So the possibility of changing my mind is there!

How about you?

As others have said try the Metamorpho Showcase.

The real highlight of Metamorpho is the early issues of JLE with Giffen, Messner-Loeb and Sears. Really brought back Sapphire, Stagg and the Gang.

Metamorpho is DC's Ben Grimm. Except with even more pathos: He's become a freak, his wife has left him for a monkey man, his father-in-law is a real bastard and the Three Stooges is never on.

JLE 11 - 12: When Rex fights Guy Gardner and then the Metal Men are two of my favourite comics.

[Michael P]

With Emma Frost, I like the fact that she jumped over to the hero side of the fence without losing any of her arrogance and attitude.

It's also not so much that she jumped as that she was tipped.

What's amusing is watching 40-something nerds who still wish everything was the way it was during Dark Phoenix rant about how Morrison ruined a great villain, when she'd been on the good guy side for about seven years before he ever showed up.

[Mia]

I'm not a big X-Men fan, but I've liked how Morrisson and Bendis have written her; to me, she seems like what a liberated, sophisticated mutant woman might be like. She kind of has a "I'm homo-superior, the rules don't apply to me" attitude, which makes sense.

Also, she has a costume and an appearance that gets your attention.




You said it baby! I love Emma. Her confidence, sense of self, and the fact that she plays to win and she does not sell herself short. And despite the fact that she plays at being an elitist-stuck up b*tch. She will come to your help if you need it. What you see is what you get, there's no hypocrisy with Emma. And I respect that.

Characters I don't get?

Oracle
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern (Kyle Rainer/Hal Jordan)
Hawkgirl
The Authority (entire team)
Superman

[Tyr]

Characters I don't get?

Oracle
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern (Kyle Rainer/Hal Jordan)
Hawkgirl
The Authority (entire team)
Superman

What do you have against Oracle and Wonder Woman?

As for Shayera Hol from the DCAU that made Hawkgirl a popular character. Heres a little blurb on her from Bruce Timm about her popularity it can be found at The Watchtower (http://jl.toonzone.net/hawkgirl/hawkgirl.htm)


Bruce Timm: She’s the second most controversial member of the cast. People were saying, “Why Hawkgirl? Why not Hawkman?” Well, she’s cooler! Again, we felt that we needed to have another woman in the group—we like women, you know. And we [also] felt that the Hawk family had to be represented, because of the icons that they are. And we decided that, “Well, we don’t want to have both of them, so let’s just have Hawkgirl.” And, personally, I’ve always loved that Hawkgirl design, ever since I saw it when I was a kid. I think her mask is cooler. I think she’s got an overall better shape.

The thing we wanted to do to set her apart from Wonder Woman is that Wonder Woman is a little bit aloof. It’s not that she’s really arrogant or snotty—it’s just that she’s used to being treated like a princess, and so she’s a little bit like, “What’s the matter with these weird humans? They don’t treat me right.” And Hawkgirl, even though she is from another planet, she actually does fit in with the rest of the gang better. She’s like kind of one of the guys. As we say, “Wonder Woman’s a supermodel, but Hawkgirl’s like any girl next door.” She’s approachable.

And Rich [Fogel] was saying, “Well, you know, that’s fine, but she’s a hawk. She needs to have something hawk-like about her.” And he came up with this great gimmick for her: for the most part she’s sweet, she’s warm, she’s friendly, and everyone likes her; but the minute she goes into battle her instincts kick in and she turns into Wolverine. So, you know, everybody’s going into battle, suddenly Hawkgirl jumps ahead of them and she’s like slaughtering everybody, and they’re like, “Wait. Wait!” [Well,] not really slaughtering—maybe robots, but…yeah, she hurts a lot of bad guys. Anyway, I predict you guys are going to dig her.

[Magneto_X]

David Cain hasn't been seen since before her title ended, I think. At least, I don't recall seeing him since then. I think you mean Deathstroke.

whatever the case, Cass isn't back to normal yet. Titans East doesn't prove anything.

Thanks. :D

Like you said she's still a joke in DC. Nowhere near the badass she used to be pre-OYL.

In her prime she would have given Deathstroke a tough fight *solo*. In Titans East DS basically ignored her when she attacked with the other Titans. When Robin (Drake) gives Slade a better fight then Cass (even post-drug use --- she'd have to be in a coma for Robin to beat her fair and square).

[Mia]

What do you have against Oracle and Wonder Woman?




I have nothing against them. I just don't get them. Especially Oracle.

[Karl J Barnes]

You said it baby! I love Emma. Her confidence, sense of self, and the fact that she plays to win and she does not sell herself short. And despite the fact that she plays at being an elitist-stuck up b*tch. She will come to your help if you need it. What you see is what you get, there's no hypocrisy with Emma. And I respect that.

Characters I don't get?


The Authority (entire team)



Totally agree with about Emma. And somewhat about the Authority. Today's Authority has,for me, worn out its welcome, but when they first started out; they were the best comic coming out. Really sad to see such cool and interesting characters lose their pop.

[Magneto_X]

The Authority has been watered down since 9/11.

They haven't been used that well since Millar left, either.

[Major Comma]

a clarification
cass is no longer a villain thats what i meant by normal
as for her physical skills time will tell

[Pink Bat Max]

Venom, Doomsday, and Bane. Especially the latter two. Yes, they beat their counterparts, but IMHO in exactly the least interesting way possible.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

Venom, Doomsday, and Bane. Especially the latter two. Yes, they beat their counterparts, but IMHO in exactly the least interesting way possible.

At least there was a slight bit of creativity with Bane, breaking out the Arkham inmates and such to weaken Batman down.

The Doomsday storyline was one of the lamest things I've ever read, and the sad thing is that storyline probably got more exposure in comics than anything else, so it's probably what a lot of people base their thoughts of comics on.

[Pink Bat Max]

At least there was a slight bit of creativity with Bane, breaking out the Arkham inmates and such to weaken Batman down.

The Doomsday storyline was one of the lamest things I've ever read, and the sad thing is that storyline probably got more exposure in comics than anything else, so it's probably what a lot of people base their thoughts of comics on.

True. Bane breaking out all the Arkham inmates to leave Batman exhausted and beatable? Good plan. The venom and gimp suit on top of that? **GROOOOOOAN**

[Christopher Cross Is God]

True. Bane breaking out all the Arkham inmates to leave Batman exhausted and beatable? Good plan. The venom and gimp suit on top of that? **GROOOOOOAN**

Don't forget......Not just a gimp suit, but a Lucha Libre mask to add more effect!

What makes me roll my eyes about Bane more than any of that is this whole Hispanic background he has now, where he suddenly speaks with some sort of a Spanish accent.

I guess he was so in-tune on "breaking the bat" during Knightfall that his accent didn't show.

Then they had that storyline where Bane could have been Bruce Wayne's half-brother? hahahahahaha, it never ends!

[Karl J Barnes]

Don't forget......Not just a gimp suit, but a Lucha Libre mask to add more effect!

What makes me roll my eyes about Bane more than any of that is this whole Hispanic background he has now, where he suddenly speaks with some sort of a Spanish accent.

I guess he was so in-tune on "breaking the bat" during Knightfall that his accent didn't show.

Then they had that storyline where Bane could have been Bruce Wayne's half-brother? hahahahahaha, it never ends!

The highlighted portion is when I hoped that we would NEVER hear from Bane again.

[Johnny_Luck]

Powergirl
Nightwing
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter
Black Lightning
Every Flash(Barring Bart when Kid Flash)
Every GL


Though I def don't understand all the hate for Gambit at all. I understand the hate for Wolverine but not Gambit.

I mean Not only does he look cool with the eyes and Jacket, the dude can fight with the third coolest weapon out their a bo staff(double sided ax being the first coolest, and crossbow being the second), but the dude throws dangerous and explosive playing cards. How is that not cool? Not to mention the dude has the hots for Rogue which means he has good tastes.

[Major Comma]

i could live to be a thousand and i will never understand the appeal of venom
and carnage even less
I just dont get it

[Johnny_Luck]

i could live to be a thousand and i will never understand the appeal of venom
and carnage even less
I just dont get it

Carnage looks really cool and can form weapons out of his hands/body, that enough for me. Venom is eh for me too.

[The Mutt]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u51/The_Mutt_pics/poster82119508.jpg

[MartinRedmond]

Mystique Kill her already >:(
Emma Why those two both got monthly series and Kitty only got a 6 issue mini is beyond me. Prolly cause the editors only interact with women that are brain dead strippers.
Quentin Quire Why the f*?
Fantomex Awful
Batman *snore*
Mantis / Swordman geez!!!
Adam Warlock Dull
Thanos / Any epic by Jim Starlin is tedious
Punisher He's fun but I don't think he deserves more than mini series.
Hellblazer Why do people even buy this? Ahm an english bloke stereotype in a trench coat and I solve serious problems with nonsense
X23 Another crap edgy character with no real personality. Wolverine Jr? wtf? Talk about being all out of ideas.
WOLVERINE Played out, washed out, enough already.

etc...

[Johnny_Luck]

Mystique Kill her already >:(
Emma Why those two both got monthly series and Kitty only got a 6 issue mini is beyond me. Prolly cause the editors only interact with women that are brain dead strippers.
Quentin Quire Why the f*?
Fantomex Awful
Batman *snore*
Mantis / Swordman geez!!!
Adam Warlock Dull
Thanos / Any epic by Jim Starlin is tedious
Punisher He's fun but I don't think he deserves more than mini series.
Hellblazer Why do people even buy this? Ahm an english bloke stereotype in a trench coat and I solve serious problems with nonsense
X23 Another crap edgy character with no real personality. Wolverine Jr? wtf? Talk about being all out of ideas.
WOLVERINE Played out, washed out, enough already.

etc...

1. Mystique is cool when used right for Example X-men 171-174
2.Emma is a geeks fantasy(for some, I prefer better real people)
3.Kitty is the most annoying joke of an x-men ever, even worse than horrid Iceman and Wolverine combined, I can see why she doesn't get a whole lot of stuff. Rogue/Storm/Gambit are the ones to care about.
4.X-23 is kick-butt and even though shes a young female wolverine she manges not to suck like he does.

[TCJohnson]

I got no idea why Batwoman is so popular. She hasn't even done anything interesting.

[NathanielEssex]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u51/The_Mutt_pics/poster82119508.jpg

Especially since Michael Myers was first. And smarter, in a sense.

[NathanielEssex]

I understood Wolverine's character but he never really appealled to me. At the time I was reading, I much preferred Scott to Logan. Or Bobby to Logan. Or Sean to Logan.

Okay, maybe not Gambit to Logan....

When I was a teenager, I liked his "kewl, anti-authority attitude." You know, "no one can eff with me dood, I've got a temper." As I matured (and you can take that with a grain of salt :) ), I realized through experience that the guys who talk the toughest are in many cases the biggest chumps. And that the mindset of a master fighter is one that does not take into account going berserk as an option. The greatest fighter in the world, Fedor Emelienenko, is methodical and calm during his fights, even when it looks like loss is imminent. Even when he takes heavy damage.

Therefore, Logan is not even psychologically fit to be a master martial artist. At ALL. But the writers keep writing him as such, and that's when the character jumped the shark for me. Plus, they created him to be a fierce berserker. His name is "Wolverine." They're not creatures known especially for tactics, but for ferocity. You want that, why don't you call him "Wolf-dude," or something like that.

And the whole "man warring against his bestial nature" was already covered with the Hulk many years earlier.

I just find him incredibly cheap and 2-dimensional. He's the only reason I don't read the X-Men titles. His oversaturation basically nauseates me, and it seems that great characters like Nightcrawler, Angel, Beast, and Iceman always take a back seat to him in the only books they appear in.

End of rant.

[Johnny_Luck]

Especially since Michael Myers was first. And smarter, in a sense.

Myers in a movie with a horrid lead actress, very unoriginal, boring and uninspired kills with the only thing going fo it being the score vs Jason a killer who has gory, really cool look, inspired and original kills, with lots of boobies and weapons. I can very easily see why Myers is overlooked compared to Jason/Freddy.

[NathanielEssex]

Myers in a movie with a horrid lead actress, very unoriginal, boring and uninspired kills with the only thing going fo it being the score vs Jason a killer who has gory, really cool look, inspired and original kills, with lots of boobies and weapons. I can very easily see why Myers is overlooked compared to Jason/Freddy.

Nah, just your opinion. You think he looks cool, I think he looks like a redneck retard. Myers looks creepy to me, and the way he breathes steadily also ups the creep factor.

All of the lead actresses in the Friday movies were just as horrid, and at least Myers is more original than Voorhees, who's a direct ripoff.

And just how is he a fatass? Was there a crate of Twinkies at the bottom of Crystal Lake? Didn't he drown a scrawny kid and rise from the water with the gory, really cool gut?

The kills only matter to you, in this case. I wasn't looking for that in these movies. You were. Doesn't make anything superior to the other, only by different criteria different people have. The mood and tension were what was scary about Halloween, not how he killed people. That shit is irrelevant to me, and to many others, I'd surmise.

Plus, it's pretty easy to improve on elements of something that came before, while ripping it off immensely. Pretty easy, indeed. :D

[Indigo Al]

Myers in a movie with a horrid lead actress, very unoriginal, boring and uninspired kills with the only thing going fo it being the score vs Jason a killer who has gory, really cool look, inspired and original kills, with lots of boobies and weapons. I can very easily see why Myers is overlooked compared to Jason/Freddy.

You must be referring to the remake, because the fact is that Halloween is a fantastic, superior thriller in all respects to F13.

[Johnny_Luck]

Except its not supposed to be a thriller, they are slasher movies, they're there for kills, gore, boobs and effects.

That being said Jamie lee curtis is just as bad an actress as any lead from any slasher movie in the 80's. and The death scenes were a joke in the original Halloween.

If you want cool music, decent build watch Halloween, if you want a movie thats a good slasher and won't annoy the piss out of you F13 Pt 2,4,6, and 8 all are better movies.

[NathanielEssex]

Except its not supposed to be a thriller, they are slasher movies, they're there for kills, gore, boobs and effects.

That being said Jamie lee curtis is just as bad an actress as any lead from any slasher movie in the 80's. and The death scenes were a joke in the original Halloween.

If you want cool music, decent build watch Halloween, if you want a movie thats a good slasher and won't annoy the piss out of you F13 Pt 2,4,6, and 8 all are better movies.

I have a feeling that Carpenter set out to make whatever kind of movie he felt like making, and didn't worry one bit about whether it had all the elements of some retarded genre. That's what creative people do, I'd imagine. They probably don't think inside the box.

That last line is the opposite for me. The Friday the 13th series annoys the piss out of me. The only advantage it has over Halloween are the more creative kills. And, I may be wrong because I don't remember them much, but the subsequent Halloweens most likely had more creative kills when that became the trend. EDIT: More creative kills than the original, I mean.

[Dreadstar]

I haven't been able to "get" Batman for the best part of the last decade or so.

[Johnny_Luck]

I have a feeling that Carpenter set out to make whatever kind of movie he felt like making, and didn't worry one bit about whether it had all the elements of some retarded genre. That's what creative people do, I'd imagine. They probably don't think inside the box.


See this is why I think you and I very much differ on the subject. I definately think the slasher genre is the second best sub-genre in horror, after werewolf movies and I find that the genre is hardly retarded. It has some really great films and serves its purpose.

[Indigo Al]

That last line is the opposite for me. The Friday the 13th series annoys the piss out of me. The only advantage it has over Halloween are the more creative kills. And, I may be wrong because I don't remember them much, but the subsequent Halloweens most likely had more creative kills when that became the trend. EDIT: More creative kills than the original, I mean.

Creative kills are all good fun, but they won't necessarily elevate the quality of the movie, nor will they make Jason a superior character.....

[NathanielEssex]

Creative kills are all good fun, but they won't necessarily elevate the quality of the movie, nor will they make Jason a superior character.....

You said it better than I, brutha.

[Nate Grey]

Just Sentry for me.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

That being said Jamie lee curtis is just as bad an actress as any lead from any slasher movie in the 80's.

Um, no.

Jamie Lee Curtis isn't the greatest actress out there, but she's able to fulfill whatever roles she plays. I can't see any leads from any slasher movie from the 80's do a good job in A Fish Called Wanda, Trading Places, etc....They would've goofed their parts and gotten kicked off the set.

[Indigo Al]

Um, no.

Jamie Lee Curtis isn't the greatest actress out there, but she's able to fulfill whatever roles she plays. I can't see any leads from any slasher movie from the 80's do a good job in A Fish Called Wanda, Trading Places, etc....They would've goofed their parts and gotten kicked off the set.

The beleaguered babysitter in a slasher/thriller doesn't require a lot of range to begin with. But Jamie Lee made us care about and root for Laurie Strode (whereas I've been pretty much on Jason's side in pretty much all the F13's).

[pariah-1972]

I don't really get daredevil completely he seems to be a jumble of things other people do (ninja,heightened senses,disability, girlfriends keep dying on him, obsession with bad girls) he has a pretty lame costume for a pure street level hero and hes too angsty for his own good.

theres nothing i can say that i outright hate about him so he falls under this general category .

i will say i'm glad him and Spidey are friends and i would like to see them team up more often.
and they should try to make Bullseye just like the guy in his movie cause he was a bad ass.:evilsmile

[pariah-1972]

I also i wanna say that i love all the characters Gail referenced cept for Elektra.

Metamorpho has interesting powers when hes not written as an omega level shape shifter
and he has a sort of down to earth personality that is missing from a lot of DC characters not to mention he has great drama with the tension between his wifes father disliking him so.
i personally prefer the philosphical Martian Manhunter ( especially during the justice league cartoon) it takes him away from Superman comparisons and gives him a distinctive personality.

[Nick Soapdish]

I have never been able to understand what those folks out there who are fans of the Cassandra Caine, version of Batgirl see in the character.

Personally she has always come across to me as one of the most derivative, unappealing, May Sueish characters ever put on the comic page and I just don’t get the love.

Kelley Puckett.

I thought that her character was a huge rip-off, combining Azrael and Spoiler. But he did a great job telling her story IMO until the fight with Shiva. But I'm not sure if her character was well-suited for an open-ended series.

[Black Atom]

Kelley Puckett.

I thought that her character was a huge rip-off, combining Azrael and Spoiler. But he did a great job telling her story IMO until the fight with Shiva. But I'm not sure if her character was well-suited for an open-ended series.

The character she most reminds me of, from both a character and design sense, is Alita of Battle Angel Alita.

She had a lot in common with Connor Hawke, as well, who was also created by Puckett, right down to both being angelic martial arts prodigies. I guess I could see why people might see either as Sue-ish.

[Wrigley]

The Hulk.

He gets mad and smashes things. It was cute the first 50,000 times.

[valentine]

Similarly, "Protoplasmic alien merged with Earthborn angel merged with angsty teenager" doesn't work as Supergirl.

I dunno. This made the character palatable for me. I'm not a huge fan of Kara Zor-El. I'm attached to the notion that Superman is the only survivor of Krypton.

However she was pretty cool when Dini and Timm introduced her.

[Nick Soapdish]

The character she most reminds me of, from both a character and design sense, is Alita of Battle Angel Alita.

She had a lot in common with Connor Hawke, as well, who was also created by Puckett, right down to both being angelic martial arts prodigies. I guess I could see why people might see either as Sue-ish.

Oh, yeah. I forgot about the similarity to Connor as well.

Not familiar with Alita so that's all the ones that I had to go on.

[KevinTBrown]

And yet you have people who say Johns doesn't "get" Jordan ... and I bought a bunch of silver-age GL's on eBay and I was like, what IS there to get? He's like a generic guy in a generic costume who's part of some generic military force led by some generic blue munchkins in skirts. Hal is actually sorta interesting now! I dunno ...

You need to pick up the Denny O'Neil/Mike Grell issues from the late '70s. With the exception of the addition of "Itty", it was fun stuff to read. Later on, the Marv Wolfman/Dave Gibbons issues were very good as well.

As far as characters I just don't get:

Kyle Rayner. Sorry, just couldn't get into him, and I'm a huge GL fan.
Wolverine. I'm still trying to figure out why he's so damn popular.....
Wonder Woman. George Perez made it work well. Since then... bleh. Though Greg Rucka's run was darn good.
Spoiler. Um, why? What was the purpose of this character?
Lobo. One joke "wonder". Time to let him go off and disappear.
"Marvel Zombies." Dumb, dumb, dumb...
The New Gods. Yeah, Kirby created them, but I have never understood the allure.

[Johnny_Luck]

Lobo is so mis-understood I mean he was awesome in B&B #4, his apperances in 52 were awesome, overall the guys cool and entertaining.

as for the new gods Knockout and Barda are both characters that Gail simone made into awesome and highly entertaining characters and to see KO get killed was sad and pissed me off.

[Suzanne]

I don't get Metamorpho either, same goes for Plastic Man, Hulk, or Snake Eyes from GI Joe.

[TCJohnson]

or Snake Eyes from GI Joe.

I just don't know you anymore!

[dynakor]

I don't get...

Elektra: She was fine when she was introduced, but... how many times has she come back from the dead? Hasn't she come back more times than Jean Grey?

Venom: not a bad villain concept, but to be as popular as he is? Ugh! And all the spin-off symbiote characters? Ugh!

Punisher: He worked when he was a guest-star, but... how many Punisher comics are there? Isn't anyone even remotely bored yet? (I was bored with him after reading that first mini-series back in the 80's.)

Ah well... Everyone's favourite is someone else's least favourite...

[Johnny_Luck]

Venom: not a bad villain concept, but to be as popular as he is? Ugh! And all the spin-off symbiote characters? Ugh!


I much rather see Carnage and Scream on the page then venom any day of the week, IMHO the ones that came from venom were so much cooler and more entertaining.

[sghoul]

I have actually gotten to where I don't much get most of the main characters in DC or Marvel. I mean I love Bats and Supes in the DCAU, I could care less about them in the comics. I am getting to where I look for the side guys. Characters that have been under used or forgotten. Or character created folks like Invincible or Hellboy.

But specifically I don't get or lok cosmic level heroes. Superman, Sentry, Thor, Flash, Martian Manhunter. When you guy can always do whatever is needed for any situation, they become boring to me.

[areacode212]

I got no idea why Batwoman is so popular. She hasn't even done anything interesting.

I like Batwoman as a concept, in that I'm interested in seeing Batman interact with a new female Bat-person in town, especially since they seem to be roughly the same age, they know each other in their civilian identities, etc. I agree that the character hasn't actually done anything interesting yet. Has she appeared since the end of 52? I'm behind on my DC reading.

I'll go with Deadpool. Sometimes the book can be amusing, but I don't find the character himself to be all that funny or cool. I agree with Elektra, and especially the duo of Barry and Hal. They were both my "first" Flash and GL, but I'll take Wally & Kyle any day.

[The Mutt]

Not the character so much, but the concept. I've never liked super-speedsters. Never bought Flash comics. Don't like them on teams. Pietro wasn't so bad because they never made him ridiculous fast, but the DC speedsters are just absurdly fast, which means there have to be convoluted reasons why all Flash comics aren't one panel long:

"Flash! Timmy has fallen down th... Oh. Thank you, Flash.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I like Batwoman as a concept, in that I'm interested in seeing Batman interact with a new female Bat-person in town, especially since they seem to be roughly the same age, they know each other in their civilian identities, etc. I agree that the character hasn't actually done anything interesting yet. Has she appeared since the end of 52? I'm behind on my DC reading.


I think Batwoman appeared in Countdown, and she might be in that upcoming limited series Montoya is in.

What's interesting about Batwoman is the possibility of her being related to Batman. From what I remember, her last name is the same as Bruce Wayne's mother's maiden name, and both Bruce's mom & Batwoman were from the upper class of Gotham. Although Kane isn't exactly a rare name, it just seems more likely than not they're somehow related, if even distantly.

But, overall, I felt Batwoman to be all hype and no results, from reading 52. Just seemed like an excuse to add a lipstick lesbian to the mix.

[dynakor]

I think Batwoman appeared in Countdown, and she might be in that upcoming limited series Montoya is in.

What's interesting about Batwoman is the possibility of her being related to Batman. From what I remember, her last name is the same as Bruce Wayne's mother's maiden name, and both Bruce's mom & Batwoman were from the upper class of Gotham. Although Kane isn't exactly a rare name, it just seems more likely than not they're somehow related, if even distantly.

But, overall, I felt Batwoman to be all hype and no results, from reading 52. Just seemed like an excuse to add a lipstick lesbian to the mix.

It would have been nice if DC had gone ahead with a Batwoman series... I like what I've seen of her so far. I would like to see more!

[Tyr]

I've just thought of another characters popularity I don't get. Drizzt, I like Drow, but I just don't get him or why he's so popular. If anything I'd say Elaine Cunningham's Liriel Baenre made for a better renegade drow character. But I guess thats just me.

[diana_fan]

I don't get people who don't get Emma Frost. :)

[pariah-1972]

I don't get people who don't get Emma Frost. :)You know i used to not like her because she broke up Scott and Jeans marriage, but i think a lot of writers have made her more likeable especially her mini series which i thought was excellent and the fact that she has a few issues makes her seem more human and less of a scamp.
I really do wish someone would explain why she is so obsessive about teaching young mutants..

[diana_fan]

You know i used to not like her because she broke up Scott and Jeans marriage, but i think a lot of writers have made her more likeable especially her mini series which i thought was excellent and the fact that she has a few issues makes her seem more human and less of a scamp.
I really do wish someone would explain why she is so obsessive about teaching young mutants..

Teenage Negasonic Warhead.

Everything you need to know is right there.

[Michael Painter]

To the Great Grape: I love Hellcat, only because she is a hopeful and fun character. There's something so feminine and strong about her to be able to continue to wear a simple costume and to not be a dark character vengeful because of her suicide and because of what happened with her and the Son of Satan. And she's a hot redhead! :D
To characters I don't understand:
I have to agree with Gail, I also don't understand Elektra. She's always been one-note to me and always out of place. Her backstory isn't that interesting, and her popularity came because she had a killer body and costume, and died the way she did. She's never shown anything beyond that to me. We have Black Widow and Spider-Woman, and they have similar espionage sets that are much more interesting that Elektra.
I also don't really understand Emma Frost, but only the Emma Frost the X-Man, and not the teacher. I've always seen Emma as the bitchy teacher, and really she seems only to fit when she was with Generation X and the Hellions.

Punisher: He's just not my cup of tea
Cable: Really don't understand the appeal
That's all I can think of now.

[pariah-1972]

Teenage Negasonic Warhead.

Everything you need to know is right there.
Wasn't she obsessed about teaching before that?

[Karl J Barnes]

I don't get: G.I. Joe both the comics or animation series,Voltron,Transformers or really any cartoon or comic book adaptation of Toys.

[Schuimend Mormel]

I really do wish someone would explain why she is so obsessive about teaching young mutants..

It's because of what happened to her first class of students, the Hellions. They died while under her charge, and she feels she has a debt she can never repay.

Also, I'm certain this thread isn't so much about characters you don't understand as it is about characters whose popularity you don't understand. You could understand how a character ticks, but for the life of you not know why they have such a large fanbase.

As for Emma Frost, I think she's popular because she's a relatively unconventional take on the 'redeemed villain' character. Even though she's a hero now, she's not about to change her manner. She's snarky and she'll bend the rules a lot for the greater good.
I haven't read all of her appearances, but I personally like her because of the affair with the Hellions and what happened afterwards, and I like the way she headmasters the Xavier Institute.

[Alan Lynch]

I don't get people who don't get Emma Frost. :)
I loved her when she took over Iceman's body and during Generation X, but since Morrison made her faux-British I've not been a fan. It baffles me how the current interpretation of her is more popular than her Gen-X peak.

Superman. Seriously; his powers are cool and all, but I've found most of the stories I've read to be a bit samey. There's been the odd stunner here and there, but nothing to bring me round to the vast majority who like him.

[diana_fan]

Wasn't she obsessed about teaching before that?

May very well have been. Unfortunately, I never have had the chance to read Generation X, since, AFAIK, Marvel has never collected it.

But she has some great lines in Morrison's New X-Men, and there's something about the way she comes off in general that appeals to me. I think Whedon has done her justice as well.

[pariah-1972]

I really don't get Power Girls popularity.
i mean sure she has massive tits but her costume is horrid and she has virtually no personality and do we really need another Superman clone ? and her origin has been retconned too many times for her to be interesting or matter but yet shes got fan art all over the place...

[pariah-1972]

May very well have been. Unfortunately, I never have had the chance to read Generation X, since, AFAIK, Marvel has never collected it.

But she has some great lines in Morrison's New X-Men, and there's something about the way she comes off in general that appeals to me. I think Whedon has done her justice as well.She did have some good scenes/lines in the beginning and the sexual tension between her and Banshee was crazy hot (she mooned him once even)
if you can't find any tpbs you should just get some back issues its some of chris bachalo's best work imo.

[diana_fan]

I really don't get Power Girls popularity.
i mean sure she has massive tits but her costume is horrid and she has virtually no personality and do we really need another Superman clone ? and her origin has been retconned too many times for her to be interesting or matter but yet shes got fan art all over the place...

Did you read the JSA: Classified arc that focused on her (#1-#3)? I never really got PG's popularity either, before that. I thought Johns and Conner did an amazing job of making her very interesting.

And her box of doorknobs ... so, so, SO very sad. :)

[pariah-1972]

Did you read the JSA: Classified arc that focused on her (#1-#3)? I never really got PG's popularity either, before that. I thought Johns and Conner did an amazing job of making her very interesting.

And her box of doorknobs ... so, so, SO very sad. :)obviously if they can make Cable or Bishop interesting the best writer can make anyone slightly interesting.

[Tyr]

I really don't get Power Girls popularity.
i mean sure she has massive tits but her costume is horrid and she has virtually no personality and do we really need another Superman clone ? and her origin has been retconned too many times for her to be interesting or matter but yet shes got fan art all over the place...

Apart from being the most well endowed heroine of the DC universe I never got her either. The only time I got her was the DCAU's "version" of Powergirl, Galatea.

True she started out as a villain, but I think with the fact that Cabnas started working with the Justice League instead of against them in JLU season 3. That she could have developed into a hero. But maybe thats just me.

[Pink Bat Max]

For Power Girl, I'd suggest going to her original stories, rather than... well... many of the decades since. Post COIE, she was blanded down until she rejoined the JSA, but back in her original Earth-2 appearences, her personality was much clearer.

[Dazzler]

It's also not so much that she jumped as that she was tipped.

What's amusing is watching 40-something nerds who still wish everything was the way it was during Dark Phoenix rant about how Morrison ruined a great villain, when she'd been on the good guy side for about seven years before he ever showed up.

Well, I'm not a 40 year old anything, but i muchly prefer Emma as she was when she was a parted hair wearin', cocaine snortin', giant brandy snifter drinkin' psycho hose beast.
Making Emma a hero is boring. BORING i say. And since when is she British?!

Blech. New Emma can kiss my ass.

Characters i don't get:

Wolverine.
Batman.
John Stewart.
Batgirl Cassandra.
Bishop.
Mary-Jane Watson.
Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle.
Deadpool.
Cable.
X-23.

--Dazz

[Cayman]

Cyborg I find kind of dull.

[Novaya Havoc]

Character whose popularity I don't get:

Rachel Summers.

Her character arc is well past its due date, she's another AU character, and I really cannot articulate it any further because I truly, truly cannot understand how this character can be anyone's favorite.

I understand some people like her and all, but I will simply never comprehend.

[Johnny_Luck]

Cyborg I find kind of dull.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner

Actually hes more than just dull, be bland and boring and has been for years and before that he was dull with anger issues.

[Bouncing Boy]

.....Deadpool?

Deadpool, if I remember correctly, was originally created as a rip-off of Deathstroke the Terminator. His Secret ID (Wade Wilson) is even similar to Deathstroke's (Slade Wilson).

[Christopher Cross Is God]

Character whose popularity I don't get:

Rachel Summers.

Her character arc is well past its due date, she's another AU character, and I really cannot articulate it any further because I truly, truly cannot understand how this character can be anyone's favorite.

I understand some people like her and all, but I will simply never comprehend.

I thought she was great in Alan Davis's issues of Excalibur, but other than that? She was kind of bland.

[mgs]

I'm posting these because I USED to feel this way about Martian Manhunter

I think he appeals to an older set who found cheesy sci-fi goodness in his character. I never really liked him, until I came here and found out how much he was liked by Tom, the supermod. I like Tom, so it's hard to not like the character now.The Sentry. I mean .... why?

This is quoted for truthiness!!! He's another character I don't really get. But is he that popular? I don't know. I think he's well liked by a small, but vocal group. Most other people ignore him, as well they should.

[pariah-1972]

Character whose popularity I don't get:

Rachel Summers.

Her character arc is well past its due date, she's another AU character, and I really cannot articulate it any further because I truly, truly cannot understand how this character can be anyone's favorite.

I understand some people like her and all, but I will simply never comprehend.I'm with you on that completely between the ugly butch haircut and fetish clothing that they never got rid for over a decade.

and now her recent personality is way too whiny for me to even handle
even tho i'm on her side with the whole "Cyclops cheated on my mamma" thing.:p
the only thing i do like about her is her close ties to her female friends( kitty and psylocke)tho even that sometimes becomes co-dependant but its a refreshing change from other female characters who are rarely have girlfriends .

[The Mutt]

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner

Actually hes more than just dull, be bland and boring and has been for years and before that he was dull with anger issues.

Yes, but is he popular? Or is it more a matter of, "We can't fire the black guy! What will people think?!?"

I'm all for racial diversity, but I don't want a black face in my comic book, I want a black person.

[Pink Bat Max]

Yes, but is he popular? Or is it more a matter of, "We can't fire the black guy! What will people think?!?"

I'm all for racial diversity, but I don't want a black face in my comic book, I want a black person.

Oh, pish. I like Cyborg.

[valentine]

I'd like to believe that Cyborg has a loyal fanbase out there, myself included. Sure there's a whiff of tokenism around him, but I'm just happy they didn't tag the word Black before his name.

[Calamas]

I’ll add the Hulk as well. Never got the appeal of a mindless character, which is what he’s been for most of his existence.

[The Mutt]

Black Cyborg actually sounds kinda cool, but only if it was The Black Cyborg.

Unfortunately, I can't hear his name without thinking of Joe's Garage:

Sy Borg
Gimme dat, gimme dat
Sy Borg
Gimme dat,
give me de chromium leg,
I beg

[pariah-1972]

Cyborg is cool in my book tho granted i haven't much teen titans past the Wolfman/Perez era but still its refreshing to see a black character act black in the comics without turning into a stereotype or cliche.

i can't honestly think of too many characters like that.

[MartinRedmond]

I agree Deadpool is horrible. Also, if you check Youngblood, most of it looks like a Teen Titans rip, especially the Fatal Five or Fearsome Five? The first issue read like a rejected Titans proposal.

[NathanielEssex]

Yeah, Deadpool sucks. Seems...pointless. Like a Marvel Lobo.

I've never understood Thanos' popularity. He's like a Mavel version of Darkseid, or a cosmic version of Doom. Who both came first. So he appears pretty redundant to me. And also boring. :)

[Pink Bat Max]

I'd like to believe that Cyborg has a loyal fanbase out there, myself included. Sure there's a whiff of tokenism around him, but I'm just happy they didn't tag the word Black before his name.

He never struck me as a token. :confused: I think he was written quite well as a character who was black, rather than as a 'black character'. His connection with children with prosthetics/amputees once or twice felt forced, but not his race.

[MartinRedmond]

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/xmen/disassembled/x-23.jpg

Oh god, kill her off already. + She's going to be written by Ellis, so she's going to be one of his annoying I'm always right, I know no difficulty drag / goth wank teen fantasies. Also kill off Pete Wisdom.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Thunderbird III, Lifeguard, Slipstream, Ghost Rider, Ice, Jason Todd.