The Spectacular Spider-Man animated series

[Taltos]

I saw this, oddly enough, wasnt included in the article about kids wb new fall line up.

heres a video http://www.marvel.com/videos/Spectacular_Spider-Man_Animated_Series_Trailer

it looks like pretty bad animation with little appeal teenagers and adults.

[MaxofSteel]

it looks like pretty bad animation with little appeal teenagers and adults.

You might be referring to the character designs, but technically/objectively speaking, the animation is quite well done. It's a definite improvement over the animation of the 90's Spidey cartoon that's for sure.

This new Peter's voice sound too deep for his age/size IMO though.

[StoneGold]

it looks like pretty bad animation with little appeal teenagers and adults.

You're just randomly stringing together words you've read, aren't you? Do you want to explain the little appeal to teenagers and adults? Is it because Spider-Man isn't 32 in this version? Because all he does is either kick the snot out of/get the snot kicked out of him by villains. And, although I know some people have complained about the eyes, they are so freakin' Ditko. He's like if Ditko drew Ultimate Spider-Man.

[Black Atom]

I think it looks good. The way they've done the web-swinging reminds me a lot of the movies

[Justin D.]

I have a friend who has seen many more of the character designs up close and says they're impressive. From his words, Doc Ock is similar to his appearance in Spider-Man 2, but a bit stockier. He also said Electro looks good for the first time ever and manages to actually retain some remnants of the campy-looking green and yellow costume.

Personally, I love the eyes on Spidey's mask in the trailer.

[StoneGold]

Personally, I love the eyes on Spidey's mask in the trailer.

Like I said, so freakin' Ditko. Between that, the underarm webbing, and the old-school back logo.

[BoosterBronze]

it looks like pretty bad animation with little appeal teenagers and adults.


Are we seeing the same thing? The animation was stellar! He moved awesome.

[Spidey-kid1]

Looks sweet. Man I'm looking forward to the Green Goblin. Also, his voice does sound really deap. Almost like he's a grown up or at least a Junior and from what I know, he's a freshman.

I swinging is amazing. Way better than the 9's show. I also love those parts where he speeds up. His swinging is faster than I've ever seen Spiderman swing. Looks good. I'm looking forward to it.

[Deep_Sleeper]

Looks alright.

[Toku King]

I like it. JJJ looks a little odd, and I'm not too happy with Doc's arms, but besides that, I like it.
If they made a simple burglary look that cool, I can't wait for Pete to take on the likes of Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus!

[Preus]

There's already a thread for this in the Spider-Man forum but oh well....

This new series looks great, I like the animation. I'm just hoping villains like Venom, Carnage, the Rhino, & Electro get more screen time.

[Taltos]

Are we seeing the same thing? The animation was stellar! He moved awesome.

The movement was fine and alot smoother than other versions, but i didnt like how their bodies were purposely disproportional or the general lack of detail.
For spiderman i definantly prefer the realistic look of the 90s version http://youtube.com/watch?v=DRIujFQn3m0 and its not because im overly nostalgic. The hasbro "Super Pal" look just isnt good for spidey.

also anyone who says that dialogue didnt sound cheesy and child-like is kidding themselves.

[ViciousX]

Peter is in his junior year of High School on this show.

And, as for accusing it of being kiddie. Greg Weisman is in charge of this show. The guy who created "Gargoyles". It's in good hands. But, don't listen to me. Listen to him.

http://spidermancrawlspace.podomatic.com/enclosure/2007-08-10T23_52_50-07_00.mp3

[KenK]

The movement was fine and alot smoother than other versions, but i didnt like how their bodies were purposely disproportional or the general lack of detail.
For spiderman i definantly prefer the realistic look of the 90s version http://youtube.com/watch?v=DRIujFQn3m0 and its not because im overly nostalgic. The hasbro "Super Pal" look just isnt good for spidey.

The 90s cartoon wasn't any more detailed or realistic looking. And now, it just looks dated and boorish. Plus, I ultimately hated most of the character designs. Peter and Aunt May's hair always infuriated me.

also anyone who says that dialogue didnt sound cheesy and child-like is kidding themselves.

And yet you post a clip from the 90s cartoon that starts with Spider-Man recounting all the chicks he wants to get with. . . .to a statue!! Yeah, such profound dialogue!:rolleyes:

[Preus]

Honestly, the animation from the 90's Spider-Man cartoon was pretty good but it did have it's flaws. Spider-Man kind of looked stiff at times when he was web-slinging. Spider-Man seems to move a lot smoother in this cartoon.

[saintsaucey]

There's already a thread for this in the Spider-Man forum but oh well....

This new series looks great, I like the animation. I'm just hoping villains like Venom, Carnage, the Rhino, & Electro get more screen time.

where it doesn't belong since its a tvseries nopt a comic book...okay yeah i know its also a comic but this is talking about the tv series.

which btw i think looks fantastic

[Spidey-kid1]

where it doesn't belong since its a tvseries nopt a comic book...okay yeah i know its also a comic but this is talking about the tv series.

which btw i think looks fantastic

Actually, since it can fit in both categories, there can be a thread for each category if you want. The spiderman forum isn't just for comics you know. Its for anything spidey.;)

[CDB]

90s version http://youtube.com/watch?v=DRIujFQn3m0


God, I love theme song and intro!!!:D :D

[Toku King]

FOX's "Spider-Man" is the big reason that I didn't like comics or superheroes as a kid. The show seemed so lame and dull that I couldn't stand it.
Then I saw the live action movie, and my life completely changed.
I look back at the FOX cartoon, and I know now that it definately sucked enough to force a kid to deny an entire hobby altogether.

[Jack]

FOX's "Spider-Man" is the big reason that I didn't like comics or superheroes as a kid. The show seemed so lame and dull that I couldn't stand it.
Then I saw the live action movie, and my life completely changed.
I look back at the FOX cartoon, and I know now that it definately sucked enough to force a kid to deny an entire hobby altogether.
I disagreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[lonewolf23k]

The problem with the Fox cartoon was that the stories ended up being long and complicated, with elements set up in one episode not getting a resolution until 7-10 episodes down the line, so you kept getting a "to be continued" feel with every episode, including the Series Finale.

It demonstrated one thing to me, and that's you can't tell a story in a cartoon the way you do in a comic.

[Toku King]

The problem with the Fox cartoon was that the stories ended up being long and complicated, with elements set up in one episode not getting a resolution until 7-10 episodes down the line, so you kept getting a "to be continued" feel with every episode, including the Series Finale.

It demonstrated one thing to me, and that's you can't tell a story in a cartoon the way you do in a comic.

It sucked because of the lousy animation, bad voice acting(besides a few like Peter), they tried to bring Spider-Man into a "Star Wars" gallery too much, and the ideas altogether were extremely lame(dimension devices?).
And let's not forget no punching or actual weapons.

[darkkeeperjr]

I saw this, oddly enough, wasnt included in the article about kids wb new fall line up.




Cause it coming in 2008.why do they make me wait so long.

[Taltos]

The problem with the Fox cartoon was that the stories ended up being long and complicated, with elements set up in one episode not getting a resolution until 7-10 episodes down the line, so you kept getting a "to be continued" feel with every episode, including the Series Finale.

It demonstrated one thing to me, and that's you can't tell a story in a cartoon the way you do in a comic.

my only issue with the show was the pacing was off, and at time it seemed like i was watching a "last time on spiderman!" recap. other than that all your complaints are wrong.

[BoosterBronze]

also anyone who says that dialogue didnt sound cheesy and child-like is kidding themselves.

It's hard to base an opinion on three sentences of dialogue.

[Black Atom]

I liked the 90s show, but it had a few flaws. I actually appreciated that they tried multi-part stories, but they really had trouble pulling it off well. Many episodes felt rushed with all the stuff they tried to cram in. Shows like Avatar have shown us that you can have over-arcing storylines if you plan ahead. Plus, between the "creepy" theme song (which I hated) and the "creepy" logo, it seemed like they were trying to make Spidey scary instead of fun.

[Black Atom]

It's hard to base an opinion on three sentences of dialogue.

Why do you say that? If Spider-Man said "Golly! It sure is swell to be a-swingin' from rooftops this fine morn!" you'd be able to judge that dialog pretty well. I don't agree with Taltos, but he should be able to judge the show might be something he might not like as quickly as someone else might decide the opposite.

[darkkeeperjr]

Please! Please! Please! No Ms. Lion! Please!

[Kevin M.]

I'm looking forward to this Spider-man cartoon. Can't wait for 2008 to roll around.

[BoosterBronze]

Why do you say that? If Spider-Man said "Golly! It sure is swell to be a-swingin' from rooftops this fine morn!" you'd be able to judge that dialog pretty well. I don't agree with Taltos, but he should be able to judge the show might be something he might not like as quickly as someone else might decide the opposite.

I was referring specifically to the short burst of dialoge in the trailer, which isn't even dialogue to be honest, it's just a short burst of talking over at trailer. It tells us nothing about the mood or style of the series. It seems silly to me to judge something about a show based on one short blurb of dialoge.

Blurb: "It sure is awesome being Spider-Man!"

Reaction: "This show is too childish! Where's the angst?"

Blurb: "It sure is hard being Spider-Man!"

Reaction: "This show is too grim and gritty. Where's the fun?"

[KenK]

It sucked because of the lousy animation, bad voice acting(besides a few like Peter), they tried to bring Spider-Man into a "Star Wars" gallery too much, and the ideas altogether were extremely lame(dimension devices?).
And let's not forget no punching or actual weapons.

Which seems so odd, since Batman The Animated series was on Fox around the same time, and could get away showing real weapons being fired, not to mention show people actually getting shot (Commisioner Gordon in "I Am The Night" most notably), and a whole helluva lotta face punching!

You couldn't even say "blood" on Spider-Man, as it's referred to as "plasma" during any and all vampire-related episodes!

[Patient Boy]

Which seems so odd, since Batman The Animated series was on Fox around the same time, and could get away showing real weapons being fired, not to mention show people actually getting shot (Commisioner Gordon in "I Am The Night" most notably), and a whole helluva lotta face punching!

You couldn't even say "blood" on Spider-Man, as it's referred to as "plasma" during any and all vampire-related episodes!

I was highly amused that Morbius sucked blood (excuse me, plasma) using suckers on his hands.

Are the character designs for the new series from Jeff Matsuda? It seems very Jackie Chan Adventures and The Batman-ish.

[MaxofSteel]

Are the character designs for the new series from Jeff Matsuda? It seems very Jackie Chan Adventures and The Batman-ish.

That was my assumption too.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

I was highly amused that Morbius sucked blood (excuse me, plasma) using suckers on his hands.

Are the character designs for the new series from Jeff Matsuda? It seems very Jackie Chan Adventures and The Batman-ish.

He has nothing to do with the show.

[Toku King]

It looks a lot like he does, though.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

http://enewsi.com/news.php?catid=194&itemid=11817

I'm really digging it.

Gwen's design is adorable.

[The Zapper]

It's sad that so much animation looks so dang similar these days.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

What show are you accusing this of looking like? The closest I can think of is Kim Possible, myself, but eh.

[Johnny_Luck]

This art has got to be the worst cartoon art in history, its even worse than the batman's art which is pretty darn bad. Even the horrible MTV version had art leagues above this crap.

I miss the days of Spider-man in the 90's or X-men cause those show actually had good art.

and I think he was point out that other than hair color and height every single character looks the same with that artist.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

and I think he was point out that other than hair color and height every single character looks the same with that artist.

To hell with opinion, that is factually not true. O_o

And have you watched those shows recently ? And how stilted and off the animation looked? Or the bad CGI?

You know, stylization isn't an effing crime.

[Johnny_Luck]

It is if it looks like its designed to sell kiddie toys and not be a superhero cartoon. Seriously the designs look like the two year old toddler figures you can find in toy stores, not actual adult style art.

and Yes I have and the animation was amazing for Spider-man in the 90's way better than the crap we get today.

I have yet to see other than Kim Possible a cartoon in the last 3 or so years with any sort of actual good artwork to it.

Batman Beyond, JLU, Spidey(90's), X-men(90's) even the horrid MTV artwork was better, even the utter garbage artwork for X-men evolution was better.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

A toyline hasn't even been announced for this series. But you know what? Kids ARE its target audience. But how mature and smart it ends up being is due to WRITING, and Greg Weisman doesn't often disappoint.

Amazing? The movement was limited, they used repeated, poor CGI sequences, and the fights were terrible do a combination of animation and the fact that no one could punch anything due to censorship.

Look at the clip they have floating around for this. Spider-man moves with speed, momentum, and agility. The choreography is GOOD. And these designs look expressive and like they'd suit movement well.

Just because they're not aping the style of a classic comic book artist and not going for die hard realism isn't a problem.

And what was wrong with Evo? Their approach to the series was great, I think. Yes, it made them teenagers, but that's how these series STARTED.

[Scorpion13]

It looks like theyre taking a page from Bruce Timm as far as the animation style goes.

[Johnny_Luck]

and not going for die hard realism isn't a problem.

Your right it isn't, however character wise they failed to hit any realistic looking people at all. Characters like Peter, Felica, Mystero, Shocker, etc actually looked like real people/heroes/villains in the 90's version, etc though drawings look like their trying to reach how unrealistic anime is but aren't even as horridly unrealistic as anime is.

And what was wrong with Evo? Their approach to the series was great, I think. Yes, it made them teenagers, but that's how these series STARTED.

Other than horrid story lines and bad character portrayal the art was pretty darn bad in terms of how the character should have looked.

and the fight scenes with Spider-man from the 90's were good enough, just watch anyone he had with Doc Ock or Shocker. and CGI? I think you must be talking about the MTV version there are they really didn't start use CGI til mid 95's at least after spidey had been around for a few years.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

No. I'm talking about the CGI web slinging sequences and the trashy looking city they shoved into it. And for all the problems the MTV version had, the animation was still pretty fluid and action-oriented.

... And ah, the "it looks like anime" fallacy. This looks nothing at all like anime.

And "should have looked"? You do realize things get changed between versions, right? And what people call definitive looks for characters get changed all the time? When shows get remade between versions, characters CHANGE to certain degrees. Nothing stays completely the same.

[Johnny_Luck]

No. I'm talking about the CGI web slinging sequences and the trashy looking city they shoved into it. And for all the problems the MTV version had, the animation was still pretty fluid and action-oriented.

... And ah, the "it looks like anime" fallacy. This looks nothing at all like anime.


It looks like its trying to be as unrealistic and bad as anime but isn't quite there yet, it DOES look like its trying to be anime though. Its not a Fallacy if the truth of the matter is the styles are very close to one another compared to americanized art.

Not every cartoon should look as awful or as TT or The Batman. The style has changed to try and copy the success of manga craze to tv and in the end fans of good cartoon art like BATS/Spider-man/X-men or Even the slightly Japanese Batman Beyond get treated like utter crap.


Comparing this style of art and style and saying its better than the 90's version is like you saying the new Looney toons stuff is better than the classics, its just not the case and most people would call you insane for saying so.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

And now we're using the "you like this stuff, you must like lots of things that are bad" argument.

The 90's stuff had slow, labored, uninteresting, and BORING animation. Two, the style here doesn't look anything like TT OR Batman. There's less pointed edges on the character's bodies, the expressions (with the exception of Jonah to a degree) are a lot softer and not as pointed. The characters aren't as thin or angular looking either, and there's more "meat" to their limbs.

The only thing they have in common is that they're stylized.

[Johnny_Luck]

And now we're using the "you like this stuff, you must like lots of things that are bad" argument.

The 90's stuff had slow, labored, uninteresting, and BORING animation. Two, the style here doesn't look anything like TT OR Batman. There's less pointed edges on the character's bodies, the expressions (with the exception of Jonah to a degree) are a lot softer and not as pointed. The characters aren't as thin or angular looking either, and there's more "meat" to their limbs.

The only thing they have in common is that they're stylized.

I disagree I think art in the 90's was some of the best art in cartoon history and we have barely had any good cartoon art Barring JLU/Batman Beyond since after 2000.

Every piece of art is stylized, every drawing has style, defending something thats crappy by saying its just more stylized is a hole filled statement that means absolutely nothing but I cannot defend what I like.

[Wenatchee the Hatchet]

Eh, not exactly sold. Parker looks punier as Spidey than as Parker. Does he pad his civilian clothes? Gwen actually looks pretty good. I know this may be going for a more young Spidey period so Peter and Harry looking like kids could make sense but MJ looks like a stick figure. We're talking scrawny stick-figure model rather than someone curvy. Not that MJ HAS to look like that but based on these character designs Gwen's got more pronounced hips than MJ even if we factor out variables like angle of shot.

I have this feeling the character models may evolve a bit between whatever is happening now and later episodes.

You really can't screw up JJJ, though, regardless of style. But I'm wondering what Doc Ock is really going to look like. Otto is the character that, for me, makes or breaks my impression of an artist's style for Spiderman characters.

[Toku King]

What's with their eyes? Ugh.
Besides the eyes and Eddie Brock and Harry's designs(ugh), I like it. But Gwen looking like a nerd? Nah.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

You have to remember though, dude, Gwen's wearing jeans and a hoody, not MJ's shirt and skirt.

[Toku King]

And now we're using the "you like this stuff, you must like lots of things that are bad" argument.

He tends to do that.

[Toku King]

You have to remember though, dude, Gwen's wearing jeans and a hoody, not MJ's shirt and skirt.

I meant more of the glasses and the hunched back(kinda hard to see).
Maybe it's like that one girl at our school that tries to look out of the way, but is really something else.

[Toku King]

I disagree I think art in the 90's was some of the best art in cartoon history

Ugh. It was so choppy and bland!

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

Uhm... what? Neither Gwen or MJ are hunching over.

[Toku King]

Uhm... what? Neither Gwen or MJ are hunching over.

When did MJ come in?

[Johnny_Luck]

Ugh. It was so choppy and bland!

I disagree. I think people looking like actual people rather than zig zaggy sticks isn't really bland just normal and americanized goodness.

Every new cartoon that tries to attract kids nowadays tries to be half manga and half anime, rather than just going for good art styles.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

Half manga and half anime... do you listen to yourself? Assuming their is a unified style to the entire spectrum of Japanese animation and artwork, they'd be the same. The only difference is that one is a printed comic and the other is drawn on animated frames. They're the same THING.

When did MJ come in?

I wasn't exactly sure who you were talking about.

[Toku King]

This art has got to be the worst cartoon art in history, its even worse than the batman's art which is pretty darn bad. Even the horrible MTV version had art leagues above this crap.


Worse than this?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Fitz.png

2,000th post!

[The Zapper]

It looks like theyre taking a page from Bruce Timm as far as the animation style goes.

You must have seen some different art than I did.

[Preus]

Lol, yeah, because it doesn't look like anything Tim has done.

[Black Atom]

I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more "conventional"-looking style and designs. As others have said, so many cartoons are "stylized" that that has become the norm. It's no longer unique. These designs are reminiscient of Kim Possible/Legion of Superheroes to me. I actually prefer the designs from the 90s show. In those, MJ was actually attractive.

By the by, what happened to these? I actually like these a bit more. Better detail in the faces.
http://www.universomarvel.com/bajolamascara/2007/05/disenos_conceptuales_de_spider.html

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

If it's no longer unique... why is the answer to go back to something that's also not unique?

[The Zapper]

why is the answer to go back to something that's also not unique?

Or something that is unique? Or something that doesn't kind of suck?

[Black Atom]

If it's no longer unique... why is the answer to go back to something that's also not unique?

If you had a show that looked like the 90s Spider-Man show, it'd stand out today because more "stylized" art has become the norm. It's not really about unique vs. not unique, really. As The Zapper said, I'd be fine with designs that looked good. I'm not really giddy about these.

[Preus]

These designs are good enough, stop complaining & enjoy the fact that you're even getting a new Spider-Man cartoon series.

[Black Atom]

These designs are good enough, stop complaining & enjoy the fact that you're even getting a new Spider-Man cartoon series.

I don't have to watch a cartoon just because it has a my favorite character in it. That's the benefit of not being 8. I've also stopped buying certain brands of underwear for that reason.

That said, I still think the show looks decent. I plan to check it out.

[Preus]

That wasn't the point. If you don't like it, don't watch it, it's as simple as that.

Anyway, have they shown us what the Sandman will look like?

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

You know, thinking on it, the BTAS designs themselves were stylized. Bruce has a large chin, they don't draw all his muscles, there's a bit dial backing on certain details like folds of clothes and physical features.

In fact, the old Spiderman TAS designs are much more busy, and the show had limited animation and a large lack of expressiveness in terms of emotional range. The X-Men series too.

So there ya go.

[The Zapper]

LOL! Yeah, because there is only ONE way to be stylized :rolleyes:. So there ya go.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

Dude, the characters on S:TAS had the emotional and physical expressiveness of Gumby.

[The Zapper]

Dude, the characters on S:TAS had the emotional and physical expressiveness of Gumby.

I'm not saying do things like the past. I just was something different for the here and now.

[Preus]

Dude, just live with it, the animation & designs are good as is.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

Stylization means drawing to suit the medium. That's the best kind of traditional animation we've gotten in recent years. It doesn't all look the same because there's individual artists working on different shows. Yes, there's often crossover because of people working on multiple series.

I think you guys are putting "looking real" over something that's good for the medium.

[The Zapper]

Dude, just live with it, the animation & designs are good as is.

Only because you told me. Seriously though, I wont be watching, but the animation is only a small part of why. I'm just making general statements.

[Black Atom]

Stylization means drawing to suit the medium. That's the best kind of traditional animation we've gotten in recent years. It doesn't all look the same because there's individual artists working on different shows. Yes, there's often crossover because of people working on multiple series.

I think you guys are putting "looking real" over something that's good for the medium.

Or maybe...just maybe...wait for it...

MAYBE, we just don't like the designs? Is that possible? It sounds crazy, I know, but people can NOT like stuff.

[The Zapper]

Or maybe...just maybe...wait for it...

MAYBE, we just don't like the designs? Is that possible? It sounds crazy, I know, but people can NOT like stuff.

Theres all ways that too.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Dude, the characters on S:TAS had the emotional and physical expressiveness of Gumby.

Wrong.

Just because the animation isn't all wild and crazy and bombastic with people jumping around and exaggerating every movement doesn't mean there is a lack of expression.

I'll take subtle, realistic body language and expression over characters bouncing around like spastics.

STAS' characters were plenty expressive. They just didn't have to wave thier arms around to do it.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

But with that being said, this show doesn't seem to be overdoing it. It's keeping the animation high-energy, fast, and fluid without going to far.

I think it has potential. Though Im not to huge on the character designs so far.

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

First of all, are we clear that when I say STAS, I mean the Spider-man 90's series?

[Astonishing X-Fan]

All right, that explains a lot.

I'm very used to "STAS" standing for Superman The Animated Series.

Yeah, the 90s Spidey was fun when I was a kid but it doesn't hold up nearly as well as the Timm shows.

[Wenatchee the Hatchet]

That clarification of what STAS actually means helped out a lot! I was wondering what the deal was but now that I know it's referring to a SPIDERMAN cartoon it's easier to get. I own all of Superman: the animated series and I wasn't even a Superman fan before I came across the show. Never seen the Spidey cartoons from the 1990s and it sort of sounds like the verdict is too mixed for me to drop money on any of them.

[StoneGold]

That clarification of what STAS actually means helped out a lot! I was wondering what the deal was but now that I know it's referring to a SPIDERMAN cartoon it's easier to get. I own all of Superman: the animated series and I wasn't even a Superman fan before I came across the show. Never seen the Spidey cartoons from the 1990s and it sort of sounds like the verdict is too mixed for me to drop money on any of them.

It doesn't matter, they aren't on DVD in any kind of season format.

[Johnny_Luck]

Stylization means drawing to suit the medium. That's the best kind of traditional animation we've gotten in recent years. It doesn't all look the same because there's individual artists working on different shows. Yes, there's often crossover because of people working on multiple series.

I think you guys are putting "looking real" over something that's good for the medium.

So Looking Real isn't good for the animation medium?

You Honestly believe that it be good for a medium is we accept utter garbage artwork as the best we can get rather than not watch to point out we want more, that we know they can do better. Just because this garbage is less crappy smelling as the garbage animation we been getting recent years does mean we should have to like it.

and this Animation might be the in thing nowdays with the manga/anime craze but it is in no way traditional animation.

You want Tradition watch BTAS, STAS, All three of the Aladdin Movies, Darkwing Duck, Disney Robin Hood and Beauty and the beast movies, thats what good classic animation is and what the industry lacks today.

[StoneGold]

So Looking Real isn't good for the animation medium?

You Honestly believe that it be good for a medium is we accept utter garbage artwork as the best we can get rather than not watch to point out we want more, that we know they can do better. Just because this garbage is less crappy smelling as the garbage animation we been getting recent years does mean we should have to like it.

and this Animation might be the in thing nowdays with the manga/anime craze but it is in no way traditional animation.

You want Tradition watch BTAS, STAS, All three of the Aladdin Movies, Darkwing Duck, Disney Robin Hood and Beauty and the beast movies, thats what good classic animation is and what the industry lacks today.

This post is riddled with contradictions.




That is all.

[Johnny_Luck]

This post is riddled with contradictions.




That is all.

That post is complete nonsense, that is all.

It be good to at least try harder to make stuff up from posts if you want to make stuff up.

[StoneGold]

That post is complete nonsense, that is all.

It be good to at least try harder to make stuff up from posts if you want to make stuff up.

OK. Your selections of "the height of animation" really contradicts your early statements. DTV Alladin? Really? Is that the best you can do? And honestly, little of it is traditional animation. Beauty and the Beast was one of the first to introduce CGI into traditional hand drawn animation. The Batman and Superman cartoons were the ones that led the "less is more" revolution, sacrificing detail to squeeze a few more frames per second out of Korean animators. I'll be honest, I was lazy, I should have said all this in the original post. But considering we haven't seen much in the way of the animation, only character design... and have the stuff you mentioned has some degree of stylization. Between talking ducks and the impossibly horrible (from a technical standpoint) character design of the Batman and Superman stuff... Their giant shoulders should snap right off their tiny waists.

In the end, it may be crap, but it's not going to be crap for any of the confused, muddled arguments you've given.

[Toonimator]

Wow. Six pages of reading and I've learned that Johnny Luck has possibly the WORST taste in animation in the history of the medium. Oh, sure, he mentions a couple good ones from feature (BatB) and TV (Darkwing), but he's consistently been holding up the '90s Spider-Man show as close to if not THE epitome of TV animation.

Reality check: It's some of the worst. At least, among big-name cartoon series with budgets. There's some shoestring budget and usually educational stuff that airs on TV with bland designs and poor animation, but Spidey's not far off. ALL of the Marvel shows of the 1990s were like this. Spidey. X-Men. Iron Man. Hulk. FF. They all--as a counter to DC's 'streamlined' look for BTAS--tried to match the comics in a way. Not necessarily a specific artist, just generally the 'realistic' styles of the day, as well as the costumes & storylines.

Here's the thing: a large part of the style choices Bruce & company made on Batman were to make the animation easier and BETTER. Drop the extraneous detail which costs more money and is more of a headache for the animators to keep track of. Let the characters move better. BTAS had some clunker episodes, sure, and especially some of the earlier eps had the overseas studios adding their own anime bits to it, since that's what they were used to working on. But by the time of the revamp, and especially for Batman Beyond and JL/JLU, they had that stuff DOWN. Still some bad bits of animation here & there, of course, as any TV show will have, but overall the DCAU has some outstanding TV animation in its library.

Spidey... not so much. Any time I catch a bit of any of those shows, it's bland at BEST, downright terrible most of the time. Sure, MJ looks like a hot Romita gal at times... until she starts moving. Then she falls apart. So does everyone else on the show, and all the extra lines detailing the costumes & muscles never helped.

Then X-Men: Evolution came along... and they streamlined things! While it had its clunky moments as well, the worst bits of animation overall were the "Little Mermaid hair" intros for Kitty & Jean in the title sequence, like they were under water. That's about it. They simplified things and the movement wasn't held back by a bunch of worthless crap. I enjoyed a Marvel cartoon for the first time since Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends (now, I can still sit & watch that and just think: cheap budget, early '80s, perfectly understandable but they're not really overextending themselves either, no fancy CG cityscapes to move badly through, just overall awkwardness; can't do that with '90s Spidey).

So now to Spectacular (still with me? Thought not!). Cheeks is a pal. I love his work. He's the first to admit he draws standing characters in the same poses a lot... but then most artists do. The designs are very much HIS... but it's too early to say whether his one-color (ie, pupil-less) eyes will be in the show. I couldn't tell if Jonah had 'em or not... but I think they'll do fine. The rest of the characters all look sufficiently different to me. And judging by the trailer, it's gonna move VERY nicely. I will watch it for sure, and hope it comes close to the Timm-verse in terms of quality superheroic animation for Marvel... heck, if it gets up to Teen Titans and LOSH levels, I'll be happy. I enjoy watching those shows whenever I run across 'em.

To sum up, and pull 'rank' if you will, I'm an animator. I've seen a lot of animation, and done quite a bit, too. Not really much in the way of humans imitating any kind of realistic movement, "Disney Feature" stuff, but certainly enough to be a pretty reasonable judge of that in other projects. "Disney feature" is lightyears beyond '90s Spidey. So are classic Looney Tunes, even the terrible ones. Whoever said comparing Spectacular Spidey with '90s Spidey was like comparing modern Looney Tunes (or whatever it was... I guess Duck Dodgers, maybe?) to classic Looney Tunes of the Avery/Clampett/Jones/Freleng/McKimson variety needs to stop watching cartoons until they can get a clue. There is nothing to compare Spec Spidey to, for that to work. There is no classic great Spidey animation. NONE. If I show Spectacular Spidey to just about ANY animator, while they may not like the design, they'll likely agree it's good animation. The same animators would also likely agree that '90s Spidey is NOT good animation.

'90s Spidey is not high-quality superhero animation. Spectacular Spider-Man may not be, either, but from the trailer at least it seems like it'll at least be better than the old series! In animation & style if nothing else.

[Black Atom]

...you know what bugs me? That they've given Gwen "nerdy" girl and MJ "popular" girl designs. I'm not sure it bodes well for the show that they've forced the characters into such cookie-cutter personas off the bat. I know, I'm nit-picking, but it did occur to me.

[Johnny_Luck]

Wow. Six pages of reading and I've learned that Johnny Luck has possibly the WORST taste in animation in the history of the medium. Oh, sure, he mentions a couple good ones from feature (BatB) and TV (Darkwing), but he's consistently been holding up the '90s Spider-Man show as close to if not THE epitome of TV animation.

Reality check: It's some of the worst. At least, among big-name cartoon series with budgets. There's some shoestring budget and usually educational stuff that airs on TV with bland designs and poor animation, but Spidey's not far off. ALL of the Marvel shows of the 1990s were like this. Spidey. X-Men. Iron Man. Hulk. FF. They all--as a counter to DC's 'streamlined' look for BTAS--tried to match the comics in a way. Not necessarily a specific artist, just generally the 'realistic' styles of the day, as well as the costumes & storylines.

Here's the thing: a large part of the style choices Bruce & company made on Batman were to make the animation easier and BETTER. Drop the extraneous detail which costs more money and is more of a headache for the animators to keep track of. Let the characters move better. BTAS had some clunker episodes, sure, and especially some of the earlier eps had the overseas studios adding their own anime bits to it, since that's what they were used to working on. But by the time of the revamp, and especially for Batman Beyond and JL/JLU, they had that stuff DOWN. Still some bad bits of animation here & there, of course, as any TV show will have, but overall the DCAU has some outstanding TV animation in its library.

Spidey... not so much. Any time I catch a bit of any of those shows, it's bland at BEST, downright terrible most of the time. Sure, MJ looks like a hot Romita gal at times... until she starts moving. Then she falls apart. So does everyone else on the show, and all the extra lines detailing the costumes & muscles never helped.

Then X-Men: Evolution came along... and they streamlined things! While it had its clunky moments as well, the worst bits of animation overall were the "Little Mermaid hair" intros for Kitty & Jean in the title sequence, like they were under water. That's about it. They simplified things and the movement wasn't held back by a bunch of worthless crap. I enjoyed a Marvel cartoon for the first time since Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends (now, I can still sit & watch that and just think: cheap budget, early '80s, perfectly understandable but they're not really overextending themselves either, no fancy CG cityscapes to move badly through, just overall awkwardness; can't do that with '90s Spidey).

So now to Spectacular (still with me? Thought not!). Cheeks is a pal. I love his work. He's the first to admit he draws standing characters in the same poses a lot... but then most artists do. The designs are very much HIS... but it's too early to say whether his one-color (ie, pupil-less) eyes will be in the show. I couldn't tell if Jonah had 'em or not... but I think they'll do fine. The rest of the characters all look sufficiently different to me. And judging by the trailer, it's gonna move VERY nicely. I will watch it for sure, and hope it comes close to the Timm-verse in terms of quality superheroic animation for Marvel... heck, if it gets up to Teen Titans and LOSH levels, I'll be happy. I enjoy watching those shows whenever I run across 'em.

To sum up, and pull 'rank' if you will, I'm an animator. I've seen a lot of animation, and done quite a bit, too. Not really much in the way of humans imitating any kind of realistic movement, "Disney Feature" stuff, but certainly enough to be a pretty reasonable judge of that in other projects. "Disney feature" is lightyears beyond '90s Spidey. So are classic Looney Tunes, even the terrible ones. Whoever said comparing Spectacular Spidey with '90s Spidey was like comparing modern Looney Tunes (or whatever it was... I guess Duck Dodgers, maybe?) to classic Looney Tunes of the Avery/Clampett/Jones/Freleng/McKimson variety needs to stop watching cartoons until they can get a clue. There is nothing to compare Spec Spidey to, for that to work. There is no classic great Spidey animation. NONE. If I show Spectacular Spidey to just about ANY animator, while they may not like the design, they'll likely agree it's good animation. The same animators would also likely agree that '90s Spidey is NOT good animation.

'90s Spidey is not high-quality superhero animation. Spectacular Spider-Man may not be, either, but from the trailer at least it seems like it'll at least be better than the old series! In animation & style if nothing else.

You're looking at it from the sole perspective of it they don't move how I like them to, they suck.

I looking at it from a point of view that says I could care less how well the movement animation is if the actual character design animation blows donkey chunks.The design animation for the spidey character blows chunks and is in among the worst out there, thats why its not worth any of my time.

Also while I disagree about the movement animation in Spidey(90's) they actually looked like humans rather than mis-shapped point jags connected to thin and thick sticks like the crap we been stuck with design wise in LOSH/TT/The Batman and This.

I miss good character designs like the X-men and Spidey from the 90's regardless of movement, if the character are not attractive, well drawn(animated) theres really no interest in seeing how they move), watching whatever they are in.

for Looney Toons I talking the stuff on Kids WB now that makes Looney Toons looks and act like jokes(Fudd wearing a invisible armor suit, Road Runner, Coyote, Taz, Daffy and Bugs fighting aliens trying to take over the planet) the animation is a joke compared to the original character designs.

[Black Atom]

While the quality of character designs and even direction is pretty subjective, animation can be judged pretty empiracally. I liked the designs of the 90s Spider-Man cartoon, and early episodes featured really good animation, but cheapness and shortcuts plagued most episodes, the most conspicuous being reused animation. It wasn't uncommon to see Spider-Man dodge the same attack at least twice an episode, only flipped around.

[StoneGold]

While the quality of character designs and even direction is pretty subjective, animation can be judged pretty empiracally. I liked the designs of the 90s Spider-Man cartoon, and early episodes featured really good animation, but cheapness and shortcuts plagued most episodes, the most conspicuous being reused animation. It wasn't uncommon to see Spider-Man dodge the same attack at least twice an episode, only flipped around.

Even then, it wasn't exactly bad. No where near "the worst." But definitely not amongst the best. It was not a highwater mark for 90s animation. Nor was it total crap. At the very least, it was still better than X-Men. Although, for the most part, the individual art was also less detailed.

[Toonimator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Ls8CSOML4

I don't know what seasons the clips within are from, but if you kill the music (ah, YouTube...) and just watch, there's barely a decent drawing in the bunch, and most of the poses are incredibly awkward! Lots of bad animation. I'll take the way Spidey moves in the Spectacular trailer ANY day over this. I'm NOT looking at it from the sole point of view that it sucks because it doesn't move the way *I* would do it... it doesn't move the way ANY animation fan should want it to. They move BADLY. The designs make it even worse. Johnny says the movement doesn't matter if you don't like the designs; well, even great designs can move badly. I happen to think 90s Spidey's designs AREN'T that great (though a little easier on the eyes than most of the X-Men; I could never get over Beast's silly hair) yet still don't move that well. Maybe "one of the worst" was too harsh, but it's certainly nowhere near the top. Johnny later said that if the characters aren't attractive, well-drawn, and animated (?) then there's no interest in seeing how they move. Little clunky there. The Spider-Man characters are NOT WELL DRAWN. Definitely not well-drawn for ANIMATION, which.. y'know... requires SOME movement. If someone had a feature animated film budget, they could take those Spidey designs and make 'em move well. The designs would still be bland, but they'd move better and any given still from the project wouldn't look like a bad drawing by a fan doodling at home.

As for characters that "look like humans"... oh please. These are CARTOONS, it's fine to have stylized designs even if in 'reality' they wouldn't work, like Timm's massive shoulders & slender waists & legs on his DC heroes. Yeah, in real life, Bane would collapse. But this isn't real life. It's a cartoon. It works, and it looks great. Tons of comics stylize, too, and to great effect. And many of the so-called 'realistic' comics--especially in the nutty 90s--were exaggerated even more than any stylized comics, with crazy muscles that don't exist, extreme detail that serves no purpose even stylistically, stuff like that.

Bottom line, you want reality? GO WATCH SOME LIVE ACTION. You want good animation? Then recognize that it's HARD WORK, and has the potential for LIMITLESS design possibilities, so most productions want something that looks cool AND is cheap enough they can do it within their budget and maybe make a good show. Spectacular seems like it'll meet all those criteria. Just like Teen Titans & LOSH. Kids of today love the styles these cartoons are in (and make no mistake, they're all three DIFFERENT styles), apparently, or things would change. As a kid the only superhero cartoons I had were Superfriends, Spidey & His Amazing Friends, Hulk, and... that's it. All with 'realistic' designs, all done on the cheap with terrible animation. Animating realistic humans is one of the hardest things to do in animation, period... so why would ANY sane person want to see it in TV animation? It's gonna look bad. Better by far, and more instructive to new generations, to have a different style. Something that lends itself to animation yet also looks great when just a single frame is picked out.

[lonewolf23k]

...you know what bugs me? That they've given Gwen "nerdy" girl and MJ "popular" girl designs. I'm not sure it bodes well for the show that they've forced the characters into such cookie-cutter personas off the bat. I know, I'm nit-picking, but it did occur to me.

Uh, wasn't MJ always been the "Popular Party Girl" type back in high school in her original appearances, while Gwen was the "nice, quiet girl"? Sounds like they just updated their old character types for this new show.

[StoneGold]

Uh, wasn't MJ always been the "Popular Party Girl" type back in high school in her original appearances, while Gwen was the "nice, quiet girl"? Sounds like they just updated their old character types for this new show.

Originally, Gwen was more the catty bitch. That was when Ditko was drawing her, though. When Romita started on her, Stan softened up the character. Stopped drawing her with evil Ditko eyes.

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/2000/1480/144648-gwen-stacy_400.jpg

[Black Atom]

Uh, wasn't MJ always been the "Popular Party Girl" type back in high school in her original appearances, while Gwen was the "nice, quiet girl"? Sounds like they just updated their old character types for this new show.

Well, their personalities were slightly more nuanced than "hot party girl" and "quiet nerdy girl". Moreover, no one ever thought it was necessary to draw one all mousy and frumpy so we could tell them apart. Like I said, it's a nitpick.

[MaxofSteel]

So Looking Real isn't good for the animation medium?

In a word, no. At least not for television. I'm sure Disney studios could produce something you're looking for in the period of 5 or more years of labor, but for television with a MUCH lower budget, and MUCH less resources, simple character designs go a LOOOOOOOOOOONG way.

I happen to whole-heartedly agree with what Toonimator has been saying (as an animator-in-training myself).

if the character are not attractive, well drawn(animated) theres really no interest in seeing how they move), watching whatever they are in.

It may just be my interpretation, but you seem to be confusing "character designs" with "animation". A character can look as fantastic and lifelike as anyone could want, But if it doesn't move right, then the purpose of the cartoon is defeated before it even begins. A show can still suffer with good animation and bad char. designs mind you, but I personally find the animation to be more important.

[StoneGold]

It may just be my interpretation, but you seem to be confusing "character designs" with "animation". A character can look as fantastic and lifelike as anyone could want, But if it doesn't move right, then the purpose of the cartoon is defeated before it even begins. A show can still suffer with good animation and bad char. designs mind you, but I personally find the animation to be more important.

Not a big fan of the old Marvel cartoons where they'd just move Jack Kirby panels on camera?

[MaxofSteel]

Not a big fan of the old Marvel cartoons where they'd just move Jack Kirby panels on camera?

Can't say that I am, no. Although there's ways where a style like that could work (cut-out animation for example).

[StoneGold]

Can't say that I am, no. Although there's ways where a style like that could work (cut-out animation for example).

Yeah, it seemed to be done more as a cost cutting method than for artistic reasons. However, it is pretty much the ultimate example of character design over animation. Because everyone looks exactly like they did in the books. Because for the most part, the drawings were all taken directly from the books.


The problem was, the animation was non-existent.

[Black Atom]

I'm seeing this fallacy develop of traditional or "real-looking" designs = complicated = bad animation vs. stylized designs = simple = good animation. This is kind of a mis-truth. If you look at shows like Supefriends, while "traditional" the designs are actually rather simplistic, which didn't keep the show from being any less crappily animated. On the other hand, Naruto is stylized, but has rather complicated designs and is animated well. At the end of the day, what matters is who's drawing.

[StoneGold]

I'm seeing this fallacy develop of traditional or "real-looking" designs = complicated = bad animation vs. stylized designs = simple = good animation. This is kind of a mis-truth. If you look at shows like Supefriends, while "traditional" the designs are actually rather simplistic, which didn't keep the show from being any less crappily animated. On the other hand, Naruto is stylized, but has rather complicated designs and is animated well. At the end of the day, what matters is who's drawing.

It's more a matter of how much money you want to pour into it. All those extra framerates cost serious yen.

[BoosterBronze]

It's more a matter of how much money you want to pour into it. All those extra framerates cost serious yen.

For what it's worth, most animation costs serious won.
;-)

I admit I don't care for the character designs, but man, the way Spidey jumps around and slings that web looks pretty bad-ass IMHO.

[Black Atom]

Yes, true. There's no greater indiciator than Batman: TAS. The animation quality fluctuated WILDLY on that show. The first time I saw the episode "The Underdwellers" I honestly thought it was a Robert Smigel-like parody of the show.

[MaxofSteel]

Is no on watching this right now? I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far. They put a lot of effort into these fight scenes. I just hope they can keep it up.

[Matt Linton]

It was actually really good. Some of the voice casting was wacky (not sure what was up with Liz - the voice or the design) but the stories were solid, and the animation was excellent.

[Stretch Dude]

(not sure what was up with Liz - the voice or the design)

The resemblance to Paulina from Danny Phantom did not escape my notice...

Definitely a good show, though.

[ShAdOwgHoST]

i enjoyed it

[OverMaster]

Well, their personalities were slightly more nuanced than "hot party girl" and "quiet nerdy girl". Moreover, no one ever thought it was necessary to draw one all mousy and frumpy so we could tell them apart. Like I said, it's a nitpick.

It's difficult to judge character portrayals with only one episode shown so far.

[OverMaster]

It's more a matter of how much money you want to pour into it. All those extra framerates cost serious yen.

And willigness to slave underpaid Asian drawing workers.

[Toku King]

Finally saw it. Not too bad. I really liked their Spider-Man, Vulture, and Enforcers. It was cool to see a Marko cameo as well. I guess Brock was alright, but he may be too much like Parker. Norman is a little too much of a dick, but Harry seems pretty good.
I don't like the new Electro. He's not a tragic accident character, and his design was just poor. Emotionally, he's tragic, but that's because he's trying to live to his own expectations set by others, not a lab guy gone nuts.
But I guess the Vulture was really good for me(good design, perfect voice, more than exceptional motivation), so Electro's just a minor setback.
I like how the Ox's stronger than Spider-Man here. It makes him a bigger threat than in the comics. But I do miss Montana's lasso.
I'm not sure that I liked Gwen's switch. I prefer her to be the hottest girl in school. But hey, if I could deal with her living past GG in the film, I can deal with her being the 'other' girl.
The action is solid, though it irritates me that they still can't punch or shoot guns after all of this time.

Still, I give it a 4/5. The show has promise.

[Toku King]

The resemblance to Paulina from Danny Phantom did not escape my notice...

First thing to catch my eye, too.
I don't understand the need to do so, but it still works.

[Wombat 909]

I really enjoyed the first 2 episodes. I will tune in for the whole series. I do love the theme tune though its very catchy.

[Toku King]

I agree, the theme song's great. Very catchy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WC5Z5MEAqQ

[lonewolf23k]

Thirded. Just from the one episode I've seen, this show is going to make me fall in love with Spider-Man all over again. I did notice, however, that they've taken a page or two from shows like Kim Possible and Danny Phantom in terms of character roles. Just one exemple: Peter's friends are Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn. A geeky girl "best friend" and a geeky boy. Anyone else note the role resemblance with Danny's friends Sam Manson and Tucker Foley? ;)

Of course, it could just be me reading too much into things.

[Howard Allan]

Thirded. Just from the one episode I've seen, this show is going to make me fall in love with Spider-Man all over again. I did notice, however, that they've taken a page or two from shows like Kim Possible and Danny Phantom in terms of character roles. Just one exemple: Peter's friends are Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn. A geeky girl "best friend" and a geeky boy. Anyone else note the role resemblance with Danny's friends Sam Manson and Tucker Foley? ;)

Of course, it could just be me reading too much into things.

I think you are right on the money. Myself I thought it looked like it was made for 10 yr olds. I prefer Legion of SuperHeroes. Crisper animation, better looking characters and a real Kick ass theme.

[Sean Whitmore]

Myself I thought it looked like it was made for 10 yr olds.

Well, yeah. Wasn't it?


SEAN

[Surtur]

Does Spiderman not have super-strength in this one? Didn't seem like it.

[ZT4]

You know theyll save it for the customary heavy machinery scene

...Actually, I dont think theyve ever DONE that scene in any animated series...

[Toku King]

Does Spiderman not have super-strength in this one? Didn't seem like it.

That's what I was trying to figure out, too.
He must have it, though, since he broke through Tomme's suit battery, and he held Ox, Norman, and Toomes(at separate times, obviously) with ease.

[Surtur]

It just seemed like those thugs were giving him waaay too much trouble. Ok, if the big one(i guess whom is ox) has super strength, fine, but the other guys didn't..

[Sean Whitmore]

It just seemed like those thugs were giving him waaay too much trouble. Ok, if the big one(i guess whom is ox) has super strength, fine, but the other guys didn't..

To be fair, the Enforcers always gave Spider-Man a tough fight back in the Ditko days too. And they didn't even have a helicopter then.


SEAN

[StoneGold]

Damn, that was pretty good. The designs are a little odd, Ditko as filtered through a very cartoony style, but you can definitely see the Ditko influence. It's early, but I'd say it seems a damn shade better than the 90s series. And I liked that. At least the earlier eps.

[Surtur]

To be fair, the Enforcers always gave Spider-Man a tough fight back in the Ditko days too. And they didn't even have a helicopter then.


SEAN


Are they enhanced in any way? Or are they just normal humans? or are they batman style "normal humans" ?


As for the series, I enjoyed it. Obviously the show is more aimed at kids, yet at the same time the feel of the show is as if they recognize that not only kids will be watching, if that makes sense.

[Johnny_Luck]

I saw one episode, with Vulture and Electro and one lizard arm Conners, I honestly was not impressed and it felt like they were trying ti cram way too much into it then they should have. Not to mention that electro sucks on a normal day but in this cartoon they somehow managed to make him even worse.

I really don't want to see what they do to Shocker or Mysterio.

[Mac Danny]

Damn, that was pretty good. The designs are a little odd, Ditko as filtered through a very cartoony style, but you can definitely see the Ditko influence. It's early, but I'd say it seems a damn shade better than the 90s series. And I liked that. At least the earlier eps.

It's like Ditko through a Matsuda filter.

Enjoyable though. not bad on the eps. No MJ which is interesting.

[ZT4]

Yeah, it's really interesting that MJ, who didnt show up before Gwen and Harry in the comics, didnt show up here.

Were people in a coma when MJ didnt appear in the first few episodes of the FOX series or something?

[Sean Whitmore]

or are they batman style "normal humans" ?

That's as good a way to put it as any. Fancy Dan was a karate guy back before anyone really knew what that meant, so nobody seemed to have a problem with him being able to smack around Spidey. And Ox was cartoon strong; stronger than any real guy could be, but not really super.

Montana's lasso was useless and lame even back then, which I guess is why they opted for giving him a helicopter.


SEAN

[ViciousX]

Are they enhanced in any way? Or are they just normal humans? or are they batman style "normal humans" ?


As for the series, I enjoyed it. Obviously the show is more aimed at kids, yet at the same time the feel of the show is as if they recognize that not only kids will be watching, if that makes sense.

Greg Weisman writes on multiple levels. It has to target kids, but he puts in plenty for the older viewers as well. He did it on "Gargoyles", he's doing it here.

So yeah, what you said makes perfect sense.

[StoneGold]

I actually really liked the science rant from Peter in the second ep. Preachy, but makes sense from him. PSA in a good way.

[Tuan]

I thought that was a very fun watch. I like the designs and action scenes as well. I couldn't believe how many villain characters (with/without powers) they managed to cram in only two episodes, but I didn't mind. It's definitely a solid show and I'll be tuning in for more.

[Johnny_Luck]

The way they changed things and play things out makes me really miss how awesome the Spider-man show from the 90's was and hopefully that comes out on dvd, before too many gets get used too this stuff.

[Sean Whitmore]

The way they changed things and play things out makes me really miss how awesome the Spider-man show from the 90's was and hopefully that comes out on dvd, before too many gets get used too this stuff.

They should release the 90s series on DVD as an educational tool.

"Yes folks, you too can stretch 30 frames of animation out through five seasons!"


SEAN

[Johnny_Luck]

I am sorry you actually think this new stuff is better than the 90's as far as quality. I really, really am.

It saddens me how much new young kids watching a spider-man will have to suffer in terms of dialog and character changes just from what I've seen alone, yet they won't know any better being as young and as naive as they are.

This Spider-man cartoon is doing injustice to Spider-man in the same way that The Batman turned all his villains into jokes and him and his supporting cast into even bigger ones.

Might as say they designs for the characters in both are as equally horrid as well.


Man 90's Spider-man, X-men and BATS even were way, way way better than the current absolute shit we have in our superhero cartoons.

[Sean Whitmore]

I am sorry you actually think this new stuff is better than the 90's as far as quality. I really, really am.

Well, it's not as exciting as watching the same wall from the first episode fall on Spidey every week, but we make due with what we have.


It saddens me how much new young kids watching a spider-man will have to suffer in terms of dialog and character changes just from what I seen alone

Name the bad dialog and character changes. Go ahead.


This Spider-man cartoon is doing injustice to Spider-man

No it isn't, that's silly.


SEAN

[ViciousX]

I am sorry you actually think this new stuff is better than the 90's as far as quality. I really, really am.

It saddens me how much new young kids watching a spider-man will have to suffer in terms of dialog and character changes just from what I've seen alone, yet they won't know any better being as young and as naive as they are.

This Spider-man cartoon is doing injustice to Spider-man in the same way that The Batman turned all his villains into jokes and him and his supporting cast into even bigger ones.

Might as say they designs for the characters in both are as equally horrid as well.


Man 90's Spider-man, X-men and BATS even were way, way way better than the current absolute shit we have in our superhero cartoons.

There was so much wrong with the 90s show, it's pathetic. Let's see...

- Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin.
- Horrendous voice acting, especially Mary Jane.
- 90% of the series being stock footage.
- No Gwen Stacy.
- No Betty Brant.
- Electro being the Red Skull's son.
- Hobgoblin's super glider designed to sell toys
- Lame dimensional portals!
- Norman Osborn being Kingpin's whiny bitch.
- Doc Ock being Kingpin's butt monkey.
- Tombstone's Joker rip-off origin.
- Crappy CGI backgrounds.
- Super Soldier Black Cat.
- Electro as the son of the Red Skull.
- Dormammu and Morbius being way too prominent.
- Madame Web with crazy Beyonder powers.
- That lame, lame, LAME series finale.

So far this series has been quite faithful and reminiscent of the old Stan Lee/Steve Ditko/John Romita Sr. Days.

Greg Weisman did his research to a tee, and he knows and understands these characters very well. And I'll always trust the guy who created "Gargoyles" over the guy who created "Kissyfur".

[OverMaster]

There was so much wrong with the 90s show, it's pathetic. Let's see...

- Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin.
- Horrendous voice acting, especially Mary Jane.
- 90% of the series being stock footage.
- No Gwen Stacy.
- No Betty Brant.
- Electro being the Red Skull's son.
- Hobgoblin's super glider designed to sell toys
- Lame dimensional portals!
- Norman Osborn being Kingpin's whiny bitch.
- Doc Ock being Kingpin's butt monkey.
- Tombstone's Joker rip-off origin.
- Crappy CGI backgrounds.
- Super Soldier Black Cat.
- Electro as the son of the Red Skull.
- Dormammu and Morbius being way too prominent.
- Madame Web with crazy Beyonder powers.
- That lame, lame, LAME series finale.


And don't forget...

-Hydro Mary Jane!
-Incompetent Spider-Man being beaten all the time! While the bad guys escape time and time again!
-Hell, Punisher and Powerless Kraven beating Man-Spider!
-Bad forced angst!
-Stupid lame portrayal of vampirism! (Heck, if you can't portay vampirism properly, go with something else!).
-No proper resolution at the end, at all!
-Peter looking bulkier than Spider-Man!
-No Sandman! Boo!
-Overabundance of guest stars!
- And worst of all... it spawned Spider-Man Unlimited! Pee-yeww!

[Stretch Dude]

- Horrendous voice acting, especially Mary Jane.

Not to mention about 80% of Peter's dialogue falling into three categories:

1. Over-the-top self-pity, even for Spider-Angst.
2. "Aunt May!"
3. "MARY-JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE!!!!!"

[Huh?]

I really liked the first two episodes. It reminds me a lot of "The Batman" which I also like a lot.

I only have two real complaints:

1. Harry Osborn's voice was annoying.
2. Hopefully once the shows get going, the pace will slow down a little, and they will concentrate more on one villain per show, because the amount of stuff going in these 2 eps was a little much.

But, it is something I am definitely looking forward to watching on my DVR.

[Acecool]

I really liked the first two episodes. It reminds me a lot of "The Batman" which I also like a lot.

I only have two real complaints:

1. Harry Osborn's voice was annoying.
2. Hopefully once the shows get going, the pace will slow down a little, and they will concentrate more on one villain per show, because the amount of stuff going in these 2 eps was a little much.

But, it is something I am definitely looking forward to watching on my DVR.

Actually I liked the fact that they had the enforcers chasing spider-man while he was trying to deal with vulture. It reminds me of a lot of spider-man stories where he can't get a break. Its a when it rains it pours philosophy. The only thing better would have been while he was stuck on the tower fighting electro, hammer head came into avenge the enforcers and recruit electro.

[StoneGold]

Can I take a more moderate stance? I liked the 90s series. It had some issues, but the first season or two were really good for the time. That said, I also like the first two eps of the new series. It's fun, has a real energy to it that lends itself well to the Spider-Man character, it changes things, but it has a real sense of where it came from. You do not get all those Ditko homages without having done your research. It's early, but if it stays the course, it will likely be the best animated Spider-Man, ever. Honestly, the only thing holding it back (although this is also one of its strengths) is the looser animation style. Just because it doesn't look like what you expect a Spidey cartoon to look like. Every other toon in the past, be it the Bakshi series, the solo Sunbow one in the 80s, "and his Amazing Friends," or the 90s one, have all used a more traditional style. So it is a bit jarring. At least Batman had the conceit of being "What if the Fleischers did Batman."

[ZT4]

3. "MARY-JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE!!!!!"

I swear, he must have said that for fifty weeks

There was so much wrong with the 90s show, it's pathetic. Let's see...

- Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin.
- Horrendous voice acting, especially Mary Jane.
- 90% of the series being stock footage.
- No Gwen Stacy.
- No Betty Brant.
- Electro being the Red Skull's son.
- Hobgoblin's super glider designed to sell toys
- Lame dimensional portals!
- Norman Osborn being Kingpin's whiny bitch.
- Doc Ock being Kingpin's butt monkey.
- Tombstone's Joker rip-off origin.
- Crappy CGI backgrounds.
- Super Soldier Black Cat.
- Electro as the son of the Red Skull.
- Dormammu and Morbius being way too prominent.
- Madame Web with crazy Beyonder powers.
- That lame, lame, LAME series finale.

-Morbius sounding constipated every time he said "Felicia"
-Plasma Hands
-The infamous botched editing which switched two scenes around in the "Six Forgotten Warriors" storyline
-Negogenic Nightmare stretching far too long
-Secret Wars only affording one X-Man

I liked the finale, I thought it was probably the only ending you can ever give the character and make sense of his convulted continuity problems, but it was handled rather half-heartedly and with sheer commercilism in mind. All those Spider-Men were on the shelves for christ's sake

[Black Atom]

I really dig it so far. The animation and action is superb, and the show itself is full of energy, humor and fun. They've done a great job of humorously capturing the essence of old school Spidey issues where Peter is constantly in over his head, like trying to dodge Electro while answering a call from Aunt May nagging him to be home by curfew or trying to fend of the Vulture and the Enforcers at the same time. Like the movies, it looks like they're going out of their way to make sure the villains aren't just 2-dimensional baddies, but I hope this doesn't mean we won't get at least a couple that're just all-out bastards. All in all, though, a pretty entertaining show.

If I have to complain about something, it's the fact that they've fallen back on the dumb supporting cast formula for a teen superhero show that's been popularized by Smallville: one teen hero, a best bud, the girl he wants, and the nerdy girl he should be with but never notices. (Also, at some point around the time Danny Phantom was being made, someone must've decided the girl in the "girl he wants" role has to be latina, since Liz Allen is Puerto Rican now). It's a minor nitpick, but I'll always appreciate a little genuine consideration when the opportunity to simply shoehorn characters into tried-and-true stereotypes is on the table, espcially when this show seems so inspired in other ways.

[StoneGold]

I really dig it so far. The animation and action is superb, and the show itself is full of energy, humor and fun. They've done a great job of humorously capturing the essence of old school Spidey issues where Peter is constantly in over his head, like trying to dodge Electro while answering a call from Aunt May nagging him to be home by curfew or trying to fend of the Vulture and the Enforcers at the same time. Like the movies, it looks like they're going out of their way to make sure the villains aren't just 2-dimensional baddies, but I hope this doesn't mean we won't get at least a couple that're just all-out bastards. All in all, though, a pretty entertaining show.

If I have to complain about something, it's the fact that they've fallen back on the dumb supporting cast formula for a teen superhero show that's been popularized by Smallville: one teen hero, a best bud, the girl he wants, and the nerdy girl he should be with but never notices. (Also, at some point around the time Danny Phantom was being made, someone must've decided the girl in the "girl he wants" role has to be latina, since Liz Allen is Puerto Rican now). It's a minor nitpick, but I'll always appreciate a little genuine consideration when the opportunity to simply shoehorn characters into tried-and-true stereotypes is on the table, espcially when this show seems so inspired in other ways.

If it makes you feel any better, the best bud is destined to become a psychotic supervillain of his own, probably sometime in the second season.

[Black Atom]

If it makes you feel any better, the best bud is destined to become a psychotic supervillain of his own, probably sometime in the second season.

I wondered about that, actually, because Peter's friends with Eddie Brock in this one. Unless they throw us a curveball (and we know from the opening theme that Venom will show at some point) will they have two of Peter's buds turn out to be arch-villains?

[Nics23]

I enjoy the show. I thought it was pretty well done for being the WB. I think I will make the time to watch this every week. I am not going to compare it to the 90s show. As they are b oth going to have good and bad things going for them.

[smartalek]

I really enjoyed the new series. (caught it on youtube, I don't get WB up here in Canada) Spiderman is actually agile compared to the 90s version. He's fast, and he is constantly talking and jabbering. It had some comical moments as well. The bit where Spidey goes into the classroom with his costume showing, and goes "It's not what you think!". Hehe.
The show hasn't really shown how strong he is, in a direct manner.

A gripe I had with the 90s cartoon, was the fact that he was not depicted as being agile. The new show has internal monologue, but not a constant internal monologue. In the 90s show, his internal monologue would speak over people's speaking.

[hierro_boshid0]

I don't like that animation at all, and if they're not gonna do like a serious Spiderman cartoon with an adult Parker like Fox use to do, they should do an Ultimate Spiderman cartoon series.

[Sean Whitmore]

I don't like that animation at all, and if they're not gonna do like a serious Spiderman cartoon with an adult Parker like Fox use to do, they should do an Ultimate Spiderman cartoon series.

When did Fox do a cartoon with an adult Peter Parker?

Was it sometime after their series featuring a college-age Peter Parker?


(And don't anybody go mentioning Unlimited, damn youse)


SEAN

[hierro_boshid0]

When did Fox do a cartoon with an adult Peter Parker?

Was it sometime after their series featuring a college-age Peter Parker?


(And don't anybody go mentioning Unlimited, damn youse)


SEAN

Back in the early 90's, they had that Spiderman series wich f#$%ing rocked my world every saturday morning, and the X-Men series wich f#$%ing rocked my face. Maybe he was in college in that series, I don't know, but I know one thing, he wasn't a little boy or anything lol.

Like 2 years ago they would show the replays on Toon Disney, and I actually made sure I saw the entire series every week night. The animation was definitive, the storys were awesome, they even did some X-Men crossover stories with Wolverine.

But if they want that real young version of Parker, they should do a Ultimate series, and do their best to utlize that same look thats in all those Ultimate issues of Spiderman.

[OverMaster]

Like 2 years ago they would show the replays on Toon Disney, and I actually made sure I saw the entire series every week night. The animation was definitive, the storys were awesome,

Umm, are we really talking about the same series we listed all those gripes about on the last page?

[ViciousX]

Back in the early 90's, they had that Spiderman series wich f#$%ing rocked my world every saturday morning, and the X-Men series wich f#$%ing rocked my face. Maybe he was in college in that series, I don't know, but I know one thing, he wasn't a little boy or anything lol.

Like 2 years ago they would show the replays on Toon Disney, and I actually made sure I saw the entire series every week night. The animation was definitive, the storys were awesome, they even did some X-Men crossover stories with Wolverine.

But if they want that real young version of Parker, they should do a Ultimate series, and do their best to utlize that same look thats in all those Ultimate issues of Spiderman.

That's right, because Stan Lee never had him sixteen years old and in High School... oh wait...

As for your second point...

It's time for Animation Realities 101.

I have studied the animation industry for some time, and more than that, I have contacts in the industry who have been working there for decades. Writers, producers, story board artists and even voice actors. I don't work there myself, but I consider myself as much of an expert as one can be without actually working in it, though I hope that eventually changes.

Why does "The Spectacular Spider-Man" look the way it does? Why are the models so streamlined and stylized when we grew up with cartoons where the character models were very detailed?

The answer is this, it is easier to animate and to animate well. To those who keep on citing shows like "G.I. Joe", "He-Man", and other shows from that era, take off the nostalgia tinted glasses and go back and actually look at them. The character models look good when they are static, but the animation is really slow and lousy.

When Bruce Timm first set out to produce "Batman: The Animated Series", people complained about his streamlined character models, I know it might not seem like it considering how universally praised he is today, but it was not the case. Why did he do that? Because he knew you got better animation out of it. Less lines to draw means less lines to animate, especially on a TV budget.

If you want those detailed models and good animation, you need the budget of a feature length Disney movie, and even then it's still not a good idea.

When "Gargoyles" was in production, the character models were a lot more detailed. Frank Paur came in and streamlined them with artists in Japan, and the result was something beautiful. But, to those who still complain about "The Spectacular Spider-Man" not looking like this, I can guarantee you that "Gargoyles" had a much higher budget than "Spidey" does. Hell, look what happened in the third season when the budget was slashed, the models were the same, but the animation was painfully ugly to watch.

Now, Spider-Man is a character that moves. The fights are fast paced, the web slinging is fast paced, and the animation on this show is just fluid, fast and gorgeous. The aerial battle with the Vulture was breathtaking, especially for TV. Now, some will point out the Fox Kids series, but, well, honestly, look at it again. It was not all that well animated. It was full of bad CGI backgrounds, the color palette was not working, and the show was mostly stock footage. It just did not look good.

When you draw a comic book, you are drawing still images that don't have to move. You can add all the detail you want, as long as you meet your deadline. Animation doesn't have that luxury. Thousands of cells go into animating a twenty-two minute production. It is a long and grueling process, and the schedule is very tight.

It is easy to be an arm chair animation producer. Just because you watch a lot of it doesn't make you an expert. I've seen so many statements made on animation and "today's technology" coming from people who just don't know what they're talking about. It's not about being lazy. It's not about dumbing animation down. It's about producing the best animation they possibly can on a budget.

[hierro_boshid0]

Umm, are we really talking about the same series we listed all those gripes about on the last page?

I don't know, areeee weeeeeee?

lol...


Probably we are, whats your point lol?

That Spiderman cartoon that use to air back then, along with the X-Men series, litterally turned saturday mornings into ground breaking awesome mornings.



I don't know where the f#$% you've been lol...Either you weren't around then, or weren't a kid then. Cause those were litterally the best Saturday morning toons to date.

[hierro_boshid0]

That's right, because Stan Lee never had him sixteen years old and in High School... oh wait...

lol "oh wait"....Spiderman as a cartoon has only kicked ass as the more adult version during the 90's. What the fuck does Stane Lee have to do with anything? I mean other then the fact you can point out that Stan Lee drew him as 16 years old 70 f*ckin years ago?

Look my point is, if they aren't going to make a adult Spiderman with decent stories or animation like they did in the past (say what you want, but that series didnt turn into somthing EPIC because "it sucked." It turned into somthin EPIC because for a saturday morning cartoon, it kicked ass) and if they want to use a lil kid Spiderman, why not go with the Ultimate version Parker and the Ultimate look? It's modern, it focus' on Parker being a young Spiderman. Not only that but the Ultimate Spiderman is beyond appealing.





As for the animation, I don't get why you're gettin so defensive. It's just not that appealing of a look. No one said the creators should be fired and banned from Cartoons. It's just real kiddy looking, I can still watch the old Spiderman cartoons I grew up on, wich means I can still watch some new ones if they're made appealing. Just so happens to be, this new series isnt.

[Stretch Dude]

I don't know where the f#$% you've been lol...Either you weren't around then, or weren't a kid then. Cause those were litterally the best Saturday morning toons to date.

I was a kid then, and I'm inclined to disagree.

[kevhines]

Yeah guys, lets not forget this is all subjective.

I couldn't stand the 90s Spider-Man cartoon. I hated the pacing and found it very stiff. I know folks loved it. Maybe I was too old for it? I'm not sure.

I even preferred the Mtv cartoons - which despite some awkward computer animation had some great writing and pretty good action sequences.

I saw the new show this weekend and I really liked it. I found some of the action a bit short changed, but overall pretty good. The plots were a bit simplistic. But I really enjoyed the tone of the cartoon - and Spidey was pretty funny.

Overall this might be the most I have enjoyed a Spider-Man cartoon since I watched reruns of the original 'does what ever a spider-can; series of the 60s. And I haven't re-watched those since I was a kid so I am not sure how well they hold up.

Not up to some of the Timm-verse stuff which is my gold standard, but way better then anything new I have seen since...well since JLU I guess.

[StoneGold]

Where the hell are Iceman and Firestar, damn it? It isn't a Spider-Man cartoon unless Iceman and Firestar are there!!!!

[ZT4]

Stuff like Sam and Max redefined cartoons more than Spidey and X-Men at the time on FOX.

[StoneGold]

Stuff like Sam and Max redefined cartoons more than Spidey and X-Men at the time on FOX.

That's not exactly true, either. In terms of animation, it was nothing new. In terms of style, Rocky and Bullwinkle was doing it a couple decades prior.



And believe me, comparing it to Rocky and Bullwinkle is not a knock. But all S&M really is, is R&B, with the intelligences of the large one and the small one switched, with more references (if not so much actual occasions) of violence.


Or if you don't got for that, the Tick beat out S&M.

[OverMaster]

I don't know where the f#$% you've been lol...Either you weren't around then, or weren't a kid then. Cause those were litterally the best Saturday morning toons to date.

Ah, so you're mostly based on nostalgia (even if perhaps you don't realize it)? I was an early teenager back then, and while I liked X-Men a lot, Spider-Man never appealed to me beyond a few episodes.

[OverMaster]

Where the hell are Iceman and Firestar, damn it? It isn't a Spider-Man cartoon unless Iceman and Firestar are there!!!!

You FOOL! How do you dare to leave Ms. Lion out of the equation! The Golden Oldie shall make Cosmic Retribution to rain down on you!

[OverMaster]

Or if you don't got for that, the Tick beat out S&M.

I don't know. While Sam and Max never cease to amuse me, when watching the Tick, I always feel like I'm looking at some big flat gag everyone finds funny but me.

[Sean Whitmore]

What the fuck does Stane Lee have to do with anything? I mean other then the fact you can point out that Stan Lee drew him as 16 years old 70 f*ckin years ago?

Stan Lee drew him? You're kidding, right?


Look my point is, if they aren't going to make a adult Spiderman with decent stories or animation

What's a decent story? What was not decent about the two episodes that have aired? Support your argument a little, for christ's sake.


why not go with the Ultimate version Parker and the Ultimate look?

Because it's the WB animated version Parker. It looks exactly like the WB animated version Parker is supposed to look like. What's the problem?


As for the animation, I don't get why you're gettin so defensive. It's just not that appealing of a look.

You're getting animation and character designs confused.


SEAN

[kevhines]

Well, I would say the Tick had more influence then Sam and Max (I liked both) simply because it was on the air a lot longer. Didn't Sam and Max only last one season - and has it ever been rerun (the Tick has been on Comedy Central as well as some of the cable cartoon networks).

[drwho]

Saw this and although the character designs are pretty bad the animation flows well in the action scenes.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Man 90's Spider-man, X-men and BATS even were way, way way better than the current absolute shit we have in our superhero cartoons.

I like how you say "and BTAS even" like somehow the 90s X-Men and Spider-Man cartoons were better than it.

BTAS was an amazing show, as were all of the Bruce Timm DC animated series. BTAS in particular was considered groundbreaking for TV animation, and had excellent writing and voice acting.

The Timmverse as a whole completely trumps anything Marvel has ever done in TV animation. BTAS, STAS, and JLU put their shows to shame.

I haven't seen the new Spidey show yet, but it looks fun. The animation style seems to suit the material well.

[ViciousX]

I like how you say "and BTAS even" like somehow the 90s X-Men and Spider-Man cartoons were better than it.

BTAS was an amazing show, as were all of the Bruce Timm DC animated series. BTAS in particular was considered groundbreaking for TV animation, and had excellent writing and voice acting.

The Timmverse as a whole completely trumps anything Marvel has ever done in TV animation. BTAS, STAS, and JLU put their shows to shame.

I haven't seen the new Spidey show yet, but it looks fun. The animation style seems to suit the material well.

I still say to this day that the two greatest and most groundbreaking animated series of that decade, perhaps last two decades were Batman TAS and, of course, "Gargoyles". Both were the best of the best.

Spectacular has the brilliant mind behind "Gargoyles" running it and so far has been quite good, let's see how things go.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Yeah, totally. BTAS + Gargoyles = awesome.

[MakeshiftHero]

Well, I would say the Tick had more influence then Sam and Max (I liked both) simply because it was on the air a lot longer. Didn't Sam and Max only last one season - and has it ever been rerun (the Tick has been on Comedy Central as well as some of the cable cartoon networks).

Not to mention that Tick had it's own live action TV show, even though that didn't last long.

As for the Spider-Man show, as a 20/21 year-old and being what I like to call a "Connoisseur of Cartoons", I'd say that the show is pretty good to "the best reason to wake up before 10 that I've had in years."

It's enjoyable and I'm sure is more favored than the other Spidey toons for its target audience due to the fact that he's still in highschool, the animation is more toony and the series as a whole has a fun,actiony and cool feel to it.

Even though I'm a fan of the 90s toon and I'm into comics today because of that and x-Men, Silver Surfer, FF, Iron Man, Hulk, BTAS, and Superman (all great toons) from the 90s, I can see how kids would favor Spectacular over the 90s one and I'm sure that if I were a kid and someone said pick Spectac or the 90s I'd more than likely pick Spectac.

My only dislikes is that Harry is a whiney little girl and isnt the fun playboy, and I understand why the villians have different looking costumes and looks but it's not necessary.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Caught the Lizard episode today, enjoyed it quite a bit.

Fast, intense, fun, well-animated action, coupled with enough character development to make the action mean something.

I'm not wild on the character designs but they animate beautifully.

[ZT4]

Yeah, this episode was swell. Nice kick in the balls ending too.

[Toku King]

GAH! When's episode 3 coming onto Youtube?!

[metalhead_dave743]

Wow, I'm halfway through the first episode and I think I really like this series. I'm loving the introduction of all the characters and the relationships and multiple plotlines and possible arcs. I'm really digging what's going on.

It's a hell of a lot better than the Spider-Man movies and since 616 Spider-Man is dead to me, I think this cartoon is where I'm going to get my Spider-Man fix. I can't believe how much I'm liking this show.

[metalhead_dave743]

Anybody else get the vibe that Liz Allen was like Paulina from Danny Phantom?

[Stretch Dude]

Anybody else get the vibe that Liz Allen was like Paulina from Danny Phantom?

Yessir, I did.

[StoneGold]

Well, I would say the Tick had more influence then Sam and Max (I liked both) simply because it was on the air a lot longer. Didn't Sam and Max only last one season - and has it ever been rerun (the Tick has been on Comedy Central as well as some of the cable cartoon networks).

I meant it more as it came on first. If I'm not mistaken, Tick was the first wave of the wacky action cartoons in the 90s.

But again, as far as lineage goes, it's all just Rocky and Bullwinkle with better animation. Please, correct me if I am missing something, but I can't think of anything revolutionary about the Sam and Max cartoon. Good, yes, revolutionary, no. There is a difference.

[Surtur]

Well, they really made Peter look like a douche at the end of this one.

Then again, they do not know he has powers, so what did they really expect him to do? It was stupid of Eddie to even try to go after the lizard. All gwen and mrs connors did was stand around doing a lot of nothing. Plus I always thought Pete should of chosen to stay anonymous when he profits off the pictures, ask the bugle not to print his name. He could give them a good excuse to do so without compromising his identity: spidermans villains know pete can get pics of him, so they might use him to get to spiderman.

I know this is a comic book world where Clark Kent can use glasses as a good disguise, but people wouldn't think it was a bit strange this 16 yr. old get just happened to get really really great shots of spiderman, at seemingly weird angles as well? It might not exactly equate to him being spiderman, but it would be kind of suspicious.

[metalhead_dave743]

Well, they really made Peter look like a douche at the end of this one.



I sense Brock's anger at Peter being the beginning of the road to Venom. And it kind of sucks too because they are making Eddie such a likeble character and a good friend of Peter's. It's going to be sad turning him into a villain. Hopefully Venom will make more appearences in this then he did in the 90s Spiderman. Man, in that show, he was in it more as Eddie then Venom.

[captain_unimpressive]

Did anyone else notice the blood in the Lizard episode?
When Spidey injures his hand, he web-bandages it (which was pretty clever, by the way) and for the rest of the episode, the bandage has red stains on it. You'd think it was just the costume showing through, but it's an entirely different shade.

[ZT4]

Hopefully Venom will make more appearences in this then he did in the 90s Spiderman. Man, in that show, he was in it more as Eddie then Venom.

At the same time, they didnt overexpose him. It would have been great to have seen the deserted island conflict with the characters, with some added depth.

I think Brock will become Venom close to the season finale, the last three episodes will likely deal with the symbiote and his transformation.

[Christoffer]

Just caught the three first episodes today, fantastic show. Nice pacing, likeable characters, quality animation and great action sequences. I love how they portray Eddie as such a nice guy and how Peters friends thought he'd betrayed em. Good stuff!

Not a fan of the "bro" part though..

[smartalek]

" If you start spinning webs, I'll sue!"..
Haha

[Ragnorok64]

Man I didn't even know about this show. Thank goodness for the internet. I've watched the first 3 episodes and so far I like what I've seen, a lot.

I've really got to applaud this show for its action sequences. They are really well done. Also they've made Eddie Brock into a very likable character, which I'm sure will make his inevitable Venom transformation kinda tragic. This show has already exhibited a tight continuity, which is always a plus with me.

The inclusion of Gwen Stacey, seemingly to the exclusion of Mary Jane saddens me though.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

They've shown designs for Mary Jane, and in the first episode May was talking to Anna Watson, so it's pretty assured that MJ will make her way into the series at some point.

[Ragnorok64]

They've shown designs for Mary Jane, and in the first episode May was talking to Anna Watson, so it's pretty assured that MJ will make her way into the series at some point.

Nice, though considering the target audience, I doubt Gwen Stacey will be ushered out quite the same way her original comic counterpart was.

[Acecool]

Man I didn't even know about this show. Thank goodness for the internet. I've watched the first 3 episodes and so far I like what I've seen, a lot.

I've really got to applaud this show for its action sequences. They are really well done. Also they've made Eddie Brock into a very likable character, which I'm sure will make his inevitable Venom transformation kinda tragic. This show has already exhibited a tight continuity, which is always a plus with me.

The inclusion of Gwen Stacey, seemingly to the exclusion of Mary Jane saddens me though.

The action sequences are fantastic. I loved the Lizard episode for that sub way scene alone.

[maczero]

Did anyone else notice the blood in the Lizard episode?
When Spidey injures his hand, he web-bandages it (which was pretty clever, by the way) and for the rest of the episode, the bandage has red stains on it. You'd think it was just the costume showing through, but it's an entirely different shade.Actually, it was his costume showing through the webbing bandage. The webs are somewhat opaque so it makes the red in his costume appear to be a different shade. Still it's a nice little detail that they chose to animate.

[metalhead_dave743]

I want to get something straight here... the Shocker in this... he's not Herman Shultz, right? He's Montana from the Enforcers? Just clear that up with me.

Loved that episode btw. Is comic shocker really that powerful? I never really got into him.

[Sean Whitmore]

I want to get something straight here... the Shocker in this... he's not Herman Shultz, right? He's Montana from the Enforcers? Just clear that up with me.

Loved that episode btw. Is comic shocker really that powerful? I never really got into him.

Yup, toon Shocker is Montana.

In the comics, Shocker's abilities go up and down. Sometimes (most times, these days) he's treated like a joke. Other times, he's been as dangerous as the toon version, and tough to take down.


SEAN

[Affinity]

Shoot. I've missed this for a couple of weeks now.

[Huh?]

Was there a new episode this saturday (3/22)? My DVR didn't tape anything, I was kind of pissed when I checked last night.

[metalhead_dave743]

Search for them on Youtube. Somebody has been posting full episodes. I don't know if they've been taken down yet but as far as I know, they are up.

[Toku King]

So far, to my surprise, my favorite villain of the season is Shocker. I just love his personality, his way of thinking, and his dialogue with Spider-Man.

Vulture was really great, but I would've liked to have seen more thief in him.
I didn't like Electro at all.
Lizard was pretty damn badass. His movements and nature were perfect.
Flint Marko and Alex O'Hirn are set up nicely.

[smartalek]

They take them down from youtube pretty quickly. I catch them on Dailymotion.

[Nics23]

te only thing that I could see getting old is if every Supervilllain Comes from the Big amn And Osborne. I would like to see some that have nothing to do with it and have thier own reasons for doing things.

[Toku King]

te only thing that I could see getting old is if every Supervilllain Comes from the Big amn And Osborne. I would like to see some that have nothing to do with it and have thier own reasons for doing things.

Pretty much. I think the Rhino makes sense to be made by the mob, since he was in the comics, but hopefully Doctor Octopus and Sandman are by accident. It's one of the unique things about them.
I also hope that they go a little deeper with Marko eventually. He's not exactly evil as he is just confused and angry.

[StoneGold]

Pretty much. I think the Rhino makes sense to be made by the mob, since he was in the comics, but hopefully Doctor Octopus and Sandman are by accident. It's one of the unique things about them.
I also hope that they go a little deeper with Marko eventually. He's not exactly evil as he is just confused and angry.

In the movie, maybe. In the comics, he was always a pretty hardcore criminal, who only went straight because he got turned into a homoerotic mud monster.

[Toku King]

In the movie, maybe. In the comics, he was always a pretty hardcore criminal, who only went straight because he got turned into a homoerotic mud monster.

Not true. I have a comic somewhere where he explained his anger with humanity, and how he felt betrayed by people all his life. Because of this, he turned to a life of crime. He actually turned good after a discussion with the Thing, who relates to him and makes him change his ways.

[Nics23]

I remember marvel team number one up with Spiderman and the Torch. They were trying to stop Sandman from getting some where. Turns out he was jsut trying to get home to his mom for Christmas. Thats not a man who is pure evil to me :)

[StoneGold]

Not true. I have a comic somewhere where he explained his anger with humanity, and how he felt betrayed by people all his life. Because of this, he turned to a life of crime. He actually turned good after a discussion with the Thing, who relates to him and makes him change his ways.

My daddy left me, so I became a hold-up man. Yeah, that's not really misunderstood. Flint was a bastich. Like all other bastiches, it was because of things that happened in his life, but he allowed them to make him a bastich. And yes, he turned good, but again, it was after being turned into a homoerotic muck monster.

[Toku King]

My daddy left me, so I became a hold-up man. Yeah, that's not really misunderstood. Flint was a bastich. Like all other bastiches, it was because of things that happened in his life, but he allowed them to make him a bastich. And yes, he turned good, but again, it was after being turned into a homoerotic muck monster.

He was framed for a crime he didn't commit, was forced to do a crime and get arrested by the mob, and was beaten by his dad.

And it was Thing's talk that turned him good.

[Toku King]

I remember marvel team number one up with Spiderman and the Torch. They were trying to stop Sandman from getting some where. Turns out he was jsut trying to get home to his mom for Christmas. Thats not a man who is pure evil to me :)

Exactly. He's angry and violent, but it's all because of his past, not because he's evil.

[StoneGold]

He was framed for a crime he didn't commit, was forced to do a crime and get arrested by the mob, and was beaten by his dad.

And it was Thing's talk that turned him good.

After being turned into a homoerotic muck monster. He got merged with Hydro-Man into a mud monster. It was traumatic.


And he did plenty of other crimes as well. And all this being retcon upon retcon upon retcon. I forget, is he original Flint Marko this week, or William Baker? Because the original name has been flip-flopped more than once.

[Ragnorok64]

After being turned into a homoerotic muck monster. He got merged with Hydro-Man into a mud monster. It was traumatic.


And he did plenty of other crimes as well. And all this being retcon upon retcon upon retcon. I forget, is he original Flint Marko this week, or William Baker? Because the original name has been flip-flopped more than once.

Perhaps I'm a I'm just too naive about these matters but what what exactly is homoerotic about a man mad of sand? If what you say is true, the desert just got a lot gayer...

[Acecool]

Pretty much. I think the Rhino makes sense to be made by the mob, since he was in the comics, but hopefully Doctor Octopus and Sandman are by accident. It's one of the unique things about them.
I also hope that they go a little deeper with Marko eventually. He's not exactly evil as he is just confused and angry.

I see sandman being made into sand man on purpose. I mean he already works for the King pin and human test subjects were promised to Norman Osborne. (I am right in assuming the big man is probably king pin right?) I love the idea of super villains being used and created in order to provide a distraction for spider-man (and probably the media as well). It seems very relevant to today's issues.

[Acecool]

I want to get something straight here... the Shocker in this... he's not Herman Shultz, right? He's Montana from the Enforcers? Just clear that up with me.

Loved that episode btw. Is comic shocker really that powerful? I never really got into him.

I wonder if they'll introduce Herman and make him the new shocker.

[Nics23]

Sandman doesnt work for Kingpin he works for The Big Man. Not the same guy. And speaking of reformed villains. You know who would be great on this show. The prowler. He could be a misunderstood villain than sometimes partner of Spiderman.

[Toku King]

I see sandman being made into sand man on purpose. I mean he already works for the King pin and human test subjects were promised to Norman Osborne. (I am right in assuming the big man is probably king pin right?) I love the idea of super villains being used and created in order to provide a distraction for spider-man (and probably the media as well). It seems very relevant to today's issues.

Big Man and Kingpin are different characters.
And also, I think it takes away some of the randomness and surprise that goes with Sandman imo.
Guys like Shocker, Chameleon, Rhino, and Scorpion make sense. But in my mind, Doc Ock and Sandman don't.

[Nics23]

I will go ith you on the doc ock not making sense to be created by the mob. But Sandman? I would think he does make sense. He is a thug who works for big man. And he hates Spidey. I would say he does get mad into the Sandman as Osbornes first Supper Villain.

[Ragnorok64]

I must say, some of the villain transformations are pretty intense.

[Sean Whitmore]

I didn't catch this until they reran the first episode, but...that was Doc Ock being berated by the Vulture, right?


SEAN

[Surtur]

Yup, Doc Oc was also involved in the creation of Sandman as well IIRC.

[Comicbookfan]

I really like this cartoon. Its fun i thought i would hate it as i hate all things teen oriented but man it was great!

[David Walton]

I must say, some of the villain transformations are pretty intense.

I was especially moved by Electro's transformation. In the comics he always seemed superficial, and I think they added dimensions to his character.

[StoneGold]

Perhaps I'm a I'm just too naive about these matters but what what exactly is homoerotic about a man mad of sand? If what you say is true, the desert just got a lot gayer...

It wasn't Sandman that was homoerotic, it was when he got merged together with Hydro-Man into a mud monster.

[saintsaucey]

I had my first exposier to this series yesterday. Wow what a piece of crap. The intro is so mind numbingly annoying I wanted to put a gun barrel in my mouth before it was over. The costume for I'll assume it was elektro though I fell asleep before I actually got to see a reviel. They called him Max and it I am having trouble remembering elektro's real name.

I also couldn't get over the badley drawn eyes of the characters.

This series is not for me.

[Comicbookfan]

I taped the episode with the rhino and then the end with MJ i loved it i don't know why but i'm a big fan of this series i watch it with my son and we both dig it.

[Ragnorok64]

I'm liking this show more and more with every episode. Though with all these potential female interests, I wonder if/how they're going to thin the crowed eventually.

[Black Atom]

Another awesome episode. Tombstone, who I never especially liked in the comics was great here. And MJ says the line! Great show.

[DWEarhart]

When Rhino started calling for his momma I nearly did a spit take. Funny stuff.

[Acecool]

The humor is really good.

rhino: gotta get out of here

spider-man: good luck with that. (as he knocks rhino on his ass)

Dude, and the put down spider-man gave rhino after he defeated him was classic. Standing on top of hum and taunting him mercilessly.

[Surtur]

Still enjoying the show, I liked the twist they added, instead of Kingpin we get Tombstone.. Good choice, he isn't just a businessman with lots of pull, he actually has the power to take down spidey quickly.

[Nefarius]

Still enjoying the show, I liked the twist they added, instead of Kingpin we get Tombstone.. Good choice, he isn't just a businessman with lots of pull, he actually has the power to take down spidey quickly.

I still believe that Tombstone is a cover.Foswell(like in comics)is the Big Man.I hope to see Wilson Fisk making an appearence as a villain.Maybe in a second season.

[Toku King]

Foswell's definitely the real Big Man. Tombstone's a cover.
I don't like Tombstone's design, but he's certainly cool.

[Toku King]

Jameson's save on Peter confirms my theory: The series is heavily, heavily influenced by the films. Not saying that's bad, because the Spider-Man trilogy is my favorite movie trilogy of all time, but people were telling me how different the show would be.

[ZT4]

Who cares? Just enjoy the bloody thing,

[smartalek]

Jameson's save on Peter confirms my theory: The series is heavily, heavily influenced by the films. Not saying that's bad, because the Spider-Man trilogy is my favorite movie trilogy of all time, but people were telling me how different the show would be.

Jameson has always been protective of Peter. He was paying for his medical bills when he was in the hospital.

[Surtur]

I still believe that Tombstone is a cover.Foswell(like in comics)is the Big Man.I hope to see Wilson Fisk making an appearence as a villain.Maybe in a second season.

I never really thought of it that way, it is entirely possible, Tombstone could just be another creation of his.

Did Tombstone and Kingpin work together in the comics, by any chance?

[Preus]

I don't think we'll be seeing the Kingpin anytime soon as the rights to his character are owned by Fox.

As far as the series is concerned, so far I think that this series has been off to a great start but I hope that they don't move too fast like with TAS and end up leaving out a lot of important villains. The character portrayals have been amazing thus far and I really think we should be getting villains like the Rhino & the Lizard again, especially since we didn't get to see them a lot in the previous animated series of the 1990's.

[Acecool]

Jameson has always been protective of Peter. He was paying for his medical bills when he was in the hospital.

Yeah jameson has always considered peter to be like a son. He was the one that collected all of his pictures for Peter's book "webs" in the first place and that is why he was so furious when he found out jameson was peter in civil war.

[Ragnorok64]

I don't think we'll be seeing the Kingpin anytime soon as the rights to his character are owned by Fox.

As far as the series is concerned, so far I think that this series has been off to a great start but I hope that they don't move too fast like with TAS and end up leaving out a lot of important villains. The character portrayals have been amazing thus far and I really think we should be getting villains like the Rhino & the Lizard again, especially since we didn't get to see them a lot in the previous animated series of the 1990's.
Where are you getting that Fox owns the rights to Kingpin?


How is Rhino supposed to use the bathroom if the suit is so sealed he can't even sweat?

[StoneGold]

Foswell's definitely the real Big Man. Tombstone's a coverl.

Definitely. You know how Foswell said that whoever Big Man is, his name's not Lincoln? Of course not. It's Foswell. He wasn't lying.

[StoneGold]

Heh, love the bit about that sweet Mary Jane coming over.

[Nefarius]

I never really thought of it that way, it is entirely possible, Tombstone could just be another creation of his.

Did Tombstone and Kingpin work together in the comics, by any chance?

Yes.Tombstone was for a time an enforcer for the Kingpin,but later he worked with Hammerhead.Tombstone was never a big player in Marvel's underworld(a respectable figure,maybe).So,i am 100% sure that Foswell is the Big Man.

[Toku King]

Who cares? Just enjoy the bloody thing,

And who said I didn't, exactly? Keep your nose out of stuff, 'mom'. Christ.

[Toku King]

What's your favorite fight so far? And if you had to, how would you list them best to worst?

[Preus]

I don't think this show has had any bad fight scenes thus far but my favorites are the fights with the Lizard, the Rhino, Electro, and the Sandman.

[Pyro]

I caught the first episode of this. Overall, it's not something I intend to watch. It's got a lot of energy and spunk and the animation is acceptable, but it's stories don't look mature enough to keep me interested and I'm not fond of the character designs. Granted, I'm not the target audience, but that's just my initial opinion of the show.

No Marvel animated series has ever really wowed me except for X-Men: Evolution. I'm still waiting for the day a Marvel series is as good as Batman:TAS ->JLU was.

[Preus]

I feel that this series has the potential to be somewhat as good Batman: TAS but it certainly won't surpass it.

[Toku King]

I feel that this series has the potential to be somewhat as good Batman: TAS but it certainly won't surpass it.

To be honest, the first six Spectacular Spider-Man episodes are on par with the first six BTAS episodes.

[Preus]

I don't think so but to each his own. I feel like B:TAS is going to the best superhero cartoon out there for years to come as it had everything you could want: action, a badass superhero, detective work, etc. If only we could get another Batman series like that.....

When does the next new SSM episode air?

[Toku King]

I don't think so but to each his own. I feel like B:TAS is going to the best superhero cartoon out there for years to come as it had everything you could want: action, a badass superhero, detective work, etc. If only we could get another Batman series like that.....

I loved BTAS, but I think JLU is the definitive comic adapted cartoon for me.

When does the next new SSM episode air?

No clue, but I can't wait to see the Green Goblin go one on one with Tombstone!

[vazel]

rofl I'm really liking Spectacular Spider-Man but just as good as Batman: TAS? Let's calm down now.

[Toku King]

rofl I'm really liking Spectacular Spider-Man but just as good as Batman: TAS? Some of you seem to be getting a little fanboy excitable. Let's calm down now.

I said it's as good as the early episodes of BTAS, or at least close.
And so you're calling me a fanboy just because I have a different opinion? What's wrong with you? So I can't think something's as good as something else because you don't think so?
Yeah, that'll get you far in life.

[Toku King]

Some new pictures.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s79/PJBoySv/SSMNewVillains.jpg

Personally, I dig Rhino's design, Dr. Octopus looks pretty good(though I wish the arms looked more technical), and the Green Goblin design I'll have to see in action before I give my final decision.

[Toku King]

I don't think so but to each his own.

Read the quote Vazel.

[vazel]

I said it's as good as the early episodes of BTAS, or at least close.
And so you're calling me a fanboy just because I have a different opinion? What's wrong with you? So I can't think something's as good as something else because you don't think so?
Yeah, that'll get you far in life.Well when I see something I usually like to give it a cooling down period before I settle on an opinion of it. Considering some of the excitable opinions I've seen about this series I think it's wise advice for some of you. It is a good show I'm a big fan of Weisman but not as good as his best work, Gargoyles and definitely not as good as Batman: TAS. That includes the first few episodes, let's not forget the emmy winning episode Heart of Ice, considered to be one of the best 30 minutes of television, was one of those first episodes of Batman.

And yes I recognize it's your opinion but my contention of your opinion is an opinion too. Disagreements, that's life.

[Toku King]

Well when I see something I usually like to give it a cooling down period before I settle on an opinion of it. Considering some of the excitable opinions I've seen about this series I think it's wise advice for some of you.

Exciting time? If someone likes it, someone likes it. I thought "Spider-Man" was the greatest superhero film of all time when I first saw it in theaters, and I still do.

Heart of Ice, considered to be one of the best 30 minutes of television

Ok, it wasn't that good.

And yes I recognize it's your opinion but my contention of your opinion is an opinion too. Disagreements, that's life.

This is where I cough "bullshit!", right? You were calling us fanboys just because you didn't agree with our opinions.

[vazel]

I'm sorry I got you so riled up. Didn't realize you were so emotionally attached to the series. I was just sharing my opinion about your opinion. Didn't mean to intimidate you. Carry on now.

[Toku King]

I'm sorry I got you so riled up. Didn't realize you were so emotionally attached to the series. I was just sharing my opinion about your opinion. Didn't mean to intimidate you. Carry on now.

I'm not emotionally attached to the show, you you didn't 'intimidate' me. It just irritates the hell out of me when people calls someone a fanboy or stupid when they have a different opinion.