16-bits.... aaahh the memories

[StreetFighterRyu]

What are some of your favorite 16-bit games? Any you could remember.

I like Pitfall (I think that's what iit's called) the Mario series, Zelda 1&2, Duck Hunting, Astoriod, Tempest, Tetris, Warlords, and a few others. lol I think there's one called Gravity? You fly a ship and have to deal with gravity whenever you're on a planet. Don't know if anyone remembers or know what I'm talking about.

EDIT: I edited the title. Well, not the main title. Is just to clarify what this thread is about.

[malephoenix]

Pitfall was remade as a Playstation game, I think, but it's original was Atari, well before 16 whole bits. Asteroids never made it past Atari, though, I don't think. The first two Zelda's were 8-bit Nintendo games, as was Duck Hunt. But the 16-bit Zelda: A Link to the Past was incredible and is in my opinion much better than any of the Zelda games released since.

[Karl H]

Midwinter II - Flames of Freedom on the Atari ST - a game that totally reeked of awesomeness.

[StreetFighterRyu]

Pitfall was remade as a Playstation game, I think, but it's original was Atari, well before 16 whole bits. Asteroids never made it past Atari, though, I don't think. The first two Zelda's were 8-bit Nintendo games, as was Duck Hunt. But the 16-bit Zelda: A Link to the Past was incredible and is in my opinion much better than any of the Zelda games released since.

Aahh. Maybe I should change the title? And I did play Pitfall in Atari. One of my first consols.

[Thorlief]

F-Zero, SMW, ALTTP, Axelay, UN Squadron, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Mortal kombat 2, Street Fighter 2, Super Mario Kart, Yoshi's Island and so on
the snes was such teh console

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I have all the Mario's and I'd play them hard til I beat them. I used to have a fool proof strategy to beat Mario 3 . It was awesome. ;)

But I still have my Nintendo games put up as well as the game system.

[jesse_custer]

The 16-bit Pitfall game was called "Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure," and it is an overlooked platformer. Very challenging and in-depth gameplay.

Most of my love for 16-bit games goes to the fantastic RPGs of the period. Shining Force, Super Mario RPG, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire II, Earthbound, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, and so on.

Also, Darius Twin kicks ass and is nearly impossible to beat.

[GozertheGozarian]

The 16-bit Pitfall game was called "Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure," and it is an overlooked platformer. Very challenging and in-depth gameplay.

Most of my love for 16-bit games goes to the fantastic RPGs of the period. Shining Force, Super Mario RPG, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire II, Earthbound, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, and so on.

Also, Darius Twin kicks ass and is nearly impossible to beat.
16 bit may have had the best collection of rpgs ever.

[jesse_custer]

I think it does. 32-bit had a decent run with the Playstation, however. But Sony's system had lots of terrible RPGs. In contrast, nearly every RPG on the SNES is worth playing, and just about all of those are considered classics. That is quite the incredible feat.

[marshal99]

A lot of SNES classic RPGs have been ported to the PS1 system with enhancements.

[jesse_custer]

Many times the "enhancements" take away from the game's personality. Even if they didn't, PS1 doesn't rise above or meet the quality of the SNES because of its versions of SNES games. If that were so, we could argue that one day the Wii would have the best RPGs with its virtual console. The fact is that SNES games are SNES games.

[marshal99]

Midwinter II - Flames of Freedom on the Atari ST - a game that totally reeked of awesomeness.

That sounds familiar , is it the one with free roaming and able to drive various polygon vehicles over blocky polygon terrain and buildings , sort of the grand theft auto of its day.

[Gargus]

Many times the "enhancements" take away from the game's personality. Even if they didn't, PS1 doesn't rise above or meet the quality of the SNES because of its versions of SNES games. If that were so, we could argue that one day the Wii would have the best RPGs with its virtual console. The fact is that SNES games are SNES games.

No you couldnt. He was saying enchancements as in updates, whats on wii is not updated. Its just straight ports of the original games on wii. So that argument goes out the window.

And you really dont have to try and be such a game fanatic in here cause you want to impress, all your doing is saying age old staples in gaming that have been deemed classics and repeated over and over again.

And yes the ps1 had tons of original rpg's equal to the nes and snes, alot Im sure you never heard of since your scope is so limited and just repeating what others say the most. Im not saying ps1 is better or anything in terms of games but it had alot of good ones.

Vagrant story, xenogears, alundra, wild arms, final fantasy 7, suikoden, jade cacoon, vandal hearts, front mission, blood omen, thousand arms, chrono cross, legend of dragoon, breath of fire 3, ogre battle, saga frontier, dragon warrior 7, kings field, kartia, brignandine, vanguard bandits, person and god knows how many more are all ps1 games, some new and some sequels but still great ones.

Not to discount the nes or snes but you have to know there are great rpgs elsewhere. To be so blind as to just spout cliche great rpgs shows you dont know much as you pretend to. Its not a contest.

[jesse_custer]

Seriously, what is your problem? I was having a discussion with someone about PS1 and SNES RPGs, NOT trying to impress anyone.

He was saying enchancements as in updates, whats on wii is not updated. Its just straight ports of the original games on wii. So that argument goes out the window.

The point is that they're still SNES games. It doesn't matter if they have an extra cinema or if they butcher the original soundtrack. The remakes are not that original in the first place and often take away from the original personalities of the initial releases on the SNES.

And you really dont have to try and be such a game fanatic in here cause you want to impress, all your doing is saying age old staples in gaming that have been deemed classics and repeated over and over again.

Last time I checked, the thread was about 16-bit nostalgia. Leave the thread if such talk bothers you.

And yes the ps1 had tons of original rpg's equal to the nes and snes, alot Im sure you never heard of since your scope is so limited and just repeating what others say the most. Im not saying ps1 is better or anything in terms of games but it had alot of good ones.

Can you read? I said the PS1 had good RPGs.

Vagrant story, xenogears, alundra, wild arms, final fantasy 7, suikoden, jade cacoon, vandal hearts, front mission, blood omen, thousand arms, chrono cross, legend of dragoon, breath of fire 3, ogre battle, saga frontier, dragon warrior 7, kings field, kartia, brignandine, vanguard bandits, person and god knows how many more are all ps1 games, some new and some sequels but still great ones.

What's funny is that you didn't even mention the best RPG on PS1: Final Fantasy Tactics.

Not to discount the nes or snes but you have to know there are great rpgs elsewhere. To be so blind as to just spout cliche great rpgs shows you dont know much as you pretend to. Its not a contest.

I never said the SNES had the only good RPGs. I also never talked about the few RPGs on the NES, so that's a red herring. Also, if this isn't a contest, why did you just waste time wanking off on all those PS1 games? At least be consistent with your arguments.

By the way, the best RPG I've played is not on the SNES or PS1. And that would be Fallout 2 on the PC. So shut up before assuming you know anything about me.

[I Must Break U]

as far as the 16-bit era i'm a beat 'em up kinda guy! All the final fights are golden. Um also maximum carnage, pirates of the dark water. And the ultimate SUPER PUNCH OUT

[Sanagi]

There's so many great 16-bit games it's hard to even know where to start.

A lot of SNES classic RPGs have been ported to the PS1 system with enhancements.
Yeah, like Chrono Trigger.

BWAH HAH HAH

[TitoJones]

Most if not all the RPG's on the SNES
Shining Force
Revenge of Shinobi
Streets of Rage 1-3
Golden Axe
Madden 93

[Black Atom]

Too many to name:

The Sonic games
The Virgin Interactive platformers (Aladdin, Cool Spot, Jungle Book)
Revenge of Shinobi
Shinobi III
Gradius III
Super R-Type
Chorno Trigger
Secret of Mana
Battletoads & Double Dragon
Rocket Knight Adventures
Streets of Rage 1/2
Bonk's Adventure/Revenge
TMNT Hyperstone Heist/Turtles in Time
Super Metroid

[666MasterOfPuppets]

There's so many great 16-bit games it's hard to even know where to start.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Super Mario World, Super Mario World 2, Super Mario RPG, Zelda: A Link To The Past, F-Zero, Chrono Trigger, Shinobi, Shadow Dancer, Shinobi III, Sonic I-III, Sonic & Knuckles, Golden Axe I-III, Streets Of Rage I-III, Altered Beast, Gradius III, Axelay, Contra III, Contra: HardCorps, Super CastleVania IV, CastleVania: Dracula X, Mortal Kombat I-II, Batman Returns, R-Type III, StarFox, Stunt Race FX, Vortex, Gunstar Heroes, TMNT IV, Super Double Dragon, Battletoads, Super Metroid, Super Nova, Wild Guns, Aero The Acro-bat 1-2...

Too many to name:

The Sonic games
The Virgin Interactive platformers (Aladdin, Cool Spot, Jungle Book)
Revenge of Shinobi
Shinobi III
Gradius III
Super R-Type
Chorno Trigger
Secret of Mana
Battletoads & Double Dragon
Rocket Knight Adventures
Streets of Rage 1/2
Bonk's Adventure/Revenge
TMNT Hyperstone Heist/Turtles in Time
Super Metroid

I remember the Aladdin and Jungle Book games being so much better for the Genesis than for the SNES...

[GozertheGozarian]

Certainly can't forget Shadowrun for the Genesis. The SNES one sucked hard.

[jesse_custer]

Does anyone remember how the Mortal Kombat II version on the SNES kicked the ass of the Genesis version? I couldn't believe the disparity there.

[GozertheGozarian]

All the SNES Mortal Kombats were better than Segas. The extra controller buttons were crucial, and not censoring blood certainly helped.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Certainly can't forget Shadowrun for the Genesis. The SNES one sucked hard.

And why was that? I've only played the SNES one...

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Does anyone remember how the Mortal Kombat II version on the SNES kicked the ass of the Genesis version? I couldn't believe the disparity there.

Agreed. And Gozer is right as well.

Better graphics, blood not censored, and better controls.

[Donald M.]

And why was that? I've only played the SNES one...

Despite being based on the same license and coming out within a year of each other, they were two completely different games from different developers.

I never played the SNES version, but the Genesis version was one of the better RPGs released for that system. I know that's not saying much as the SNES tended to have more and better RPGs than the Genesis, but it was a really great game.

Just don't ask me why. That was twelve years ago and my memory's hazy. I remember that the cyberspace/hacking aspect of the game was a lot of fun and practically a game in itself. It's also one of the few RPGs with real-time combat that I've actually enjoyed.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Thanx for the info. I'll look it up.

[Thorlief]

the Snes Shadowrun was a great game, don't diss it

also- Flashback- incredible game on both versions (snes and gene)

[StreetFighterRyu]

Despite being based on the same license and coming out within a year of each other, they were two completely different games from different developers.

I never played the SNES version, but the Genesis version was one of the better RPGs released for that system. I know that's not saying much as the SNES tended to have more and better RPGs than the Genesis, but it was a really great game.

Just don't ask me why. That was twelve years ago and my memory's hazy. I remember that the cyberspace/hacking aspect of the game was a lot of fun and practically a game in itself. It's also one of the few RPGs with real-time combat that I've actually enjoyed.

Shadowrun was an rpg? Or as you say, today's Shadowrun is different? How was it? I want to try it out now.

[Phrozen]

I liked the old Koei strategy games. Aerobiz: Supersonic and Pacific Theater of War.

[Shades0077]

Why don't we measure video game systems in bits anymore?

If we did, what would they even be up to?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Good question. I don't even know how many bits current systems are.

[Thorlief]

Why don't we measure video game systems in bits anymore?

If we did, what would they even be up to?

something like 256 bit

[SAMAS]

Phantasy Star IV
Shadowrun(Genesis)
Gunstar Heroes
Sonic 1-Sonic & Knuckles
Streets of Rage 2 and 3
Shining Force 1 and 2

A few you might not know about:

Ristar - one of the many mascot platformers that filled the 16-bit era. You played the son of a missing superhero out to save his father. His only attack is to stretch out his arms, grab the opponent, and slam his body into them. Very challenging(but not too hard), and good level design.

Lunar: the Silver Star - Another one of the best RPGs of the 16-bit era, but forgotten due to the fact that it was on the Sega CD. Fun as hell for it's day, and the remakes of it and it's sequel on the Playstation were both cool.

Eternal Champions: Challenge from the Dark Side - This was one of the better fighting games out of the era, and very bloody. Had a decent selection of fighters, up to and including a chicken. Beating the game, on the other hand, was hard as hell, because to take down the normal boss, you had to fight him eight times in a row.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I remember Eternal Champions. That was a good game.

[Sanagi]

Why don't we measure video game systems in bits anymore?

If we did, what would they even be up to?
Game systems are more complex than they used to be. The step from 8 to 16 was huge, but the distinction between modern consoles has more to do with other aspects of design.

[StreetFighterRyu]

I have a Genesis pack for PSP. It has Ristar and it's kinda weird.

[HectorP]

Super Mario Bros. 3 and Yoshi's Island are unforgettable games to me.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

There's so many great 16-bit games it's hard to even know where to start.yeah i would be here all day naming games

[StreetFighterRyu]

Lemmings. You can NEVER forget Lemmings. Well, I forgot the title but I can never forget the game. That game was GANGSTA for the SNES. And AWSOME NEWS HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-98647-Lemmings/dp/B000F4MEKK/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0856820-3017502?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1194114631&sr=1-1) in case you don't know yet. And here (http://www.amazon.com/Activision-24452-Lemmings/dp/B00004U8J7/ref=pd_sim_t_shvl_img_1/104-0856820-3017502?ie=UTF8&qid=1194114631&sr=1-2) too.

[Thorlief]

yeah, Lemmings was teh shiz. Best soundtrack ever. Kinda frustrating, but damn addictive. A DS version with touch controls would be the icing on the cake

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Super Mario Bros. 3 and Yoshi's Island are unforgettable games to me.

The same with Super Mario World. That game was awesome.

[Renzo]

Super Mario Bros 3 was classic. I still have that game memorized and I will play it from time to time on my GBA.

Anyone remember those great TMNT games? TMNT 2 was classic as was Turtles in Time on SNES.

[StreetFighterRyu]

Anyone remember those great TMNT games? TMNT 2 was classic as was Turtles in Time on SNES.

TMNT Turtles in Time. That game is awsomeness.

EDIT: This is from page one but I'll post it again here in case you missed it.

I edited the title. Well, not the main title. Is just to clarify what this thread is about.

[zuludelta]

Why don't we measure video game systems in bits anymore?

If we did, what would they even be up to?

The whole "8-bit/16-bit" labeling thing pretty much became irrelevant for descriptive purposes as consoles got more complicated, especially when consoles started getting dedicated GPUs separate from CPUs (which was what the old descriptors referred to).

All modern consoles (and most PCs), AFAIK, use 64-bit CPUs, meaning that they utilize 64-bit memory addresses... The PS2 CPU uses a 64-bit MIPS-based core clocked at 300 MHz, the XBox 360 uses a Xenon processor composed of three 64-bit Power PC cores (clocked at 3.2 GHz each), and the PS3 uses a Cell microprocessor composed of one 64-bit PowerPC-based core and six SPEs (synergistic processors), all clocked at 3.2 GHz.

Sometimes, they're advertised as being "128-bit" machines though, because they use 128-bit or larger registers and memory buses (this was especially the case with the PS2, which is why it raised a lot of eyebrows when it was advertised as having a "128-bit" processor). You can see why using the bit designation ends up being somewhat less informative than describing the CPUs and GPUs in terms of processor speed.

[Wesley Dodds]

I love the 3 SNES Soul Blazer games.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Super Mario Bros 3 was classic. I still have that game memorized and I will play it from time to time on my GBA.

Anyone remember those great TMNT games? TMNT 2 was classic as was Turtles in Time on SNES.

Please, you're killing me here. Those games are frigging CLASSICS.

The whole "8-bit/16-bit" labeling thing pretty much became irrelevant for descriptive purposes as consoles got more complicated, especially when consoles started getting dedicated GPUs separate from CPUs (which was what the old descriptors referred to).

All modern consoles (and most PCs), AFAIK, use 64-bit CPUs, meaning that they utilize 64-bit memory addresses... The PS2 CPU uses a 64-bit MIPS-based core clocked at 300 MHz, the XBox 360 uses a Xenon processor composed of three 64-bit Power PC cores (clocked at 3.2 GHz each), and the PS3 uses a Cell microprocessor composed of one 64-bit PowerPC-based core and six SPEs (synergistic processors), all clocked at 3.2 GHz.

Sometimes, they're advertised as being "128-bit" machines though, because they use 128-bit or larger registers and memory buses (this was especially the case with the PS2, which is why it raised a lot of eyebrows when it was advertised as having a "128-bit" processor). You can see why using the bit designation ends up being somewhat less informative than describing the CPUs and GPUs in terms of processor speed.

Say what? :confused: I never understood what a SPE is supposed to do...

I love the 3 SNES Soul Blazer games.

What? There were three?!?!? Are the sequels under different titles or something?

[Michael P]

What? There were three?!?!? Are the sequels under different titles or something?

Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, and Terranigma. They're less an official trilogy than three games by the same developers with similar mechanics, themes, and awesomeness.

[Kevin M.]

Super Mario World
Sonic 1, 2, & 3
Sonic and Knuckles
Street Fighter for Supter Nintendo
Teenager Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time.
Smash TV
The Megaman X sereis up to X3

[Wesley Dodds]

What? There were three?!?!? Are the sequels under different titles or something?

If you haven't played Terranigma yet you're in for a treat.

[Thorlief]

I remember myself playing Starfox and man, it was epic. A unusual attempt at 3D graphics on a Nintendo console (excellent results), great score, great controls and gameplay. That was one helluva funny game, it really felt like a sci-fi movie

[Renzo]

I remember myself playing Starfox and man, it was epic. A unusual attempt at 3D graphics on a Nintendo console (excellent results), great score, great controls and gameplay. That was one helluva funny game, it really felt like a sci-fi movie

Yeah, Starfox was a lot of fun. I always liked when games had multiple choices in where you could go, like Mega Man games. Starfox 64 was also pretty fun and was the last good Starfox game, IMO.

[zuludelta]

Say what? :confused: I never understood what a SPE is supposed to do...


You'll forgive me if my explanation is a bit vague and a smidge less technical, it's been a few years since I took Circuit Design...

The SPE (synergistic processing element) is for all intents and purposes, a scaled-down CPU unto itself, specialized to perform particular operations at better efficiency than "full" CPUs, but with a corresponding drop in performance in other operations (in the simplified context of this discussion, I use the term "CPU" interchangeably with "core," as in dual-core, quad-core, etc.). In Sony's PS3 Cell microprocessor, the six SPEs are used to do the bulk of complex vectorized floating point operations (basically huge-ass operations that take the most computing time), while the main PowerPC CPU/core is used as the controller for the six SPEs and acts as a "go-between" the SPEs and the operating system. In contrast, the XBox 360's Xenon processor has three PowerPC cores that share the computing load equally.

In theory, Sony's Cell architecture should provide equivalent performance to Intel's multi-core Xenon, all the while requiring less power and generating less heat in the process.

To make my clumsy explanation even simpler, think of the Xenon as a team of three guys who are good at doing multiple things at once, and the Cell microprocessor as a team of seven guys, with one multi-skilled leader who assigns tasks to six different specialists as needs require.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, and Terranigma. They're less an official trilogy than three games by the same developers with similar mechanics, themes, and awesomeness.

Ah, I see. thanx for clearing that up.

If you haven't played Terranigma yet you're in for a treat.

I'll take your advice, Wesley. I'll see what I can do, but I must get my hands on that game.

I remember myself playing Starfox and man, it was epic. A unusual attempt at 3D graphics on a Nintendo console (excellent results), great score, great controls and gameplay. That was one helluva funny game, it really felt like a sci-fi movie

I LOVED StarFox. That game was insanely cool. It's a shame that StarFox 2 never came to fruition, though.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

You'll forgive me if my explanation is a bit vague and a smidge less technical, it's been a few years since I took Circuit Design...

The SPE (synergistic processing element) is for all intents and purposes, a scaled-down CPU unto itself, specialized to perform particular operations at better efficiency than "full" CPUs, but with a corresponding drop in performance in other operations (in the simplified context of this discussion, I use the term "CPU" interchangeably with "core," as in dual-core, quad-core, etc.). In Sony's PS3 Cell microprocessor, the six SPEs are used to do the bulk of complex vectorized floating point operations (basically huge-ass operations that take the most computing time), while the main PowerPC CPU/core is used as the controller for the six SPEs and acts as a "go-between" the SPEs and the operating system. In contrast, the XBox 360's Xenon processor has three PowerPC cores that share the computing load equally.

In theory, Sony's Cell architecture should provide equivalent performance to Intel's multi-core Xenon, all the while requiring less power and generating less heat in the process.

To make my clumsy explanation even simpler, think of the Xenon as a team of three guys who are good at doing multiple things at once, and the Cell microprocessor as a team of seven guys, with one multi-skilled leader who assigns tasks to six different specialists as needs require.

EXCELLENT explanation, Zulu. So, in theory, people can make prettier games for PS3 than for the 360, right? However, I've seen great-looking games on the big X, and when the games are multi-platform, there's not much of a difference (in fact, I've seen no difference, when it comes to graphics).

EDIT: And BTW, thanx a lot.

[Michael P]

I'll take your advice, Wesley. I'll see what I can do, but I must get my hands on that game.

Rock On, Man.

[mike rok lok]

The 16-bit Pitfall game was called "Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure," and it is an overlooked platformer. Very challenging and in-depth gameplay.

amen. I am always buying old video games (NES, SNES, Genesis, etc) and a last week I picked up Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, and I have to say that game is fantastic. It is totally a Donkey Kong Conutry rip off in its graphical presentation and game play but really fun and challenging. That is my one gripe about modern games- they are too easy. Twilight Princess while it was fun to play and presented in such a gloriously epic fashion, in terms of difficulty it was a very easy game that just happened to consume 72 hours of my life! even now i am playing gears of war and the whole game is pretty darn easy with the exception of general ramm-that is actually fairly difficult. the games i grew up with were always an insanely difficult challenge. whether it was metroid, blaster master, the original ninja gaiden games or even that cool batman game for the NES, Super Smash TV and even ecco the dolphin; beating those games felt like you climbed a mountain.

anyhow some of my all time old school faves are:
-donkey kong junior
-super mario world
-marvel land ( a fun namco produced platformer for the sega genesis. nothing to do with marvel comics)
-blaster master
-super dodge ball
-super mario bros.
-ecco the dolphin

[zuludelta]

EXCELLENT explanation, Zulu. So, in theory, people can make prettier games for PS3 than for the 360, right? However, I've seen great-looking games on the big X, and when the games are multi-platform, there's not much of a difference (in fact, I've seen no difference, when it comes to graphics).

EDIT: And BTW, thanx a lot.

You're welcome. As for PS3 games looking better... well, not necessarily. Remember that the Cell and the Xenon are the PS3's and the 360's respective processors, but each has a separate GPU (graphical processing unit) in charge of rendering visuals and effects, and from what I've read, their GPUs are pretty much equivalent in terms of what they can do.

The large differences in processor design philosophy notwithstanding, I think most users would be hard-pressed to notice any outright graphical differences between the two systems. Still, anecdotally, I hear that programming for the PS3 is a little harder for now because programmers are still getting used to the new architecture... and of course, the prodigious heat output of the 360 is a known issue that's been linked to the "Red Rings of Death."

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Rock On, Man.

Sure thing, Michael. :)

amen. I am always buying old video games (NES, SNES, Genesis, etc) and a last week I picked up Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, and I have to say that game is fantastic. It is totally a Donkey Kong Conutry rip off in its graphical presentation and game play but really fun and challenging. That is my one gripe about modern games- they are too easy. Twilight Princess while it was fun to play and presented in such a gloriously epic fashion, in terms of difficulty it was a very easy game that just happened to consume 72 hours of my life! even now i am playing gears of war and the whole game is pretty darn easy with the exception of general ramm-that is actually fairly difficult. the games i grew up with were always an insanely difficult challenge. whether it was metroid, blaster master, the original ninja gaiden games or even that cool batman game for the NES, Super Smash TV and even ecco the dolphin; beating those games felt like you climbed a mountain.

anyhow some of my all time old school faves are:
-donkey kong junior
-super mario world
-marvel land ( a fun namco produced platformer for the sega genesis. nothing to do with marvel comics)
-blaster master
-super dodge ball
-super mario bros.
-ecco the dolphin

I completely agree. Most of them are fairly easy, so my guess is that sometimes, the lack of difficulty is compensated by the game's length. At least, it's what I felt while playing games like CastleVania: Curse Of Darkness (which I have to start ALL OVER again).

Of course, there are exceptions, being the kick-ass Ninja Gaiden the most notable. Because hell, that game's tough.

You're welcome. As for PS3 games looking better... well, not necessarily. Remember that the Cell and the Xenon are the PS3's and the 360's respective processors, but each has a separate GPU (graphical processing unit) in charge of rendering visuals and effects, and from what I've read, their GPUs are pretty much equivalent in terms of what they can do.

The large differences in processor design philosophy notwithstanding, I think most users would be hard-pressed to notice any outright graphical differences between the two systems. Still, anecdotally, I hear that programming for the PS3 is a little harder for now because programmers are still getting used to the new architecture... and of course, the prodigious heat output of the 360 is a known issue that's been linked to the "Red Rings of Death."

Thanx. I'm just hoping that I never get the RROD problem. It would be particularly painful to me to have it repaired. PAINFUL.

However, I also hear that from the latest batch of 360 onwards, MS is using a new processor that is more efficient, thus generating less heat.

BTW, when developers get the gist of developing with the Cell processor, what would be the actual differences between the PS3 and the 360?

[Wesley Dodds]

Well, people who are worried games are too easy (What? They're only difficult!?) are hardcore gamers who don't care about production values. They're the people who are just as likely to play 8-bit games -- no reason making expensive blockbusters to appeal to them.

Well, perhaps Twilight Princess should have had a 2nd quest. But as someone who's obsessive and only OK at games, I like knowing that the game is actually over when I finish it. I think the current difficulty of games is just about right because I'm able to shelve games after a decent amount of time and move on to the next one. I can't stand being stuck in a game -- I just have to keep playing until I advance. The right time to stop playing is after you solve a puzzle, not during the puzzle.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well, I do like great-looking games. But I think there must be a balance between graphic awesomeness and difficulty. EDIT: A game can look like Gears Of War, Ninja Gaiden 2 or Killzone 2, and still have a decent amount of difficulty.

Of course, you can find me playing the original Pac-Man, Maniac Mansion, Monkey Island and Beneath A Steel Sky any day of the weekend.

And you're right about the last thing you said: The right time to stop is after you solve the freakin' puzzle. :)

[Brett P]

I'm nowhere near the gamer that I used to be. And I think that's just plain 'cos 2d platformers like the Mario and sonic series, scrolling beat em ups like Streets of Rage and the turtles games and beat em ups like SF2 and Mortal Kombat were what I enjoyed, and these days all the fancy graphics don't make up for the simple and addictive gameplay.

Beat em ups were ruined for me when multiple chain combos and ott hyper attacks became the norm and the 3d platformer just doesn't have the same effect for me.

Strange that I don't pay more attention to my DS...but I just don't find myself drawn to games much anymore...they feel more like a chore than anything else! Games like Twilight Princess and Resident Evil are amazing though...maybe I'm just lazy lol I also downloaded Link to the Past but it too remains neglected...