View Full Version : First page of Brave & Bold #6
gentlesatirist
08-24-2007, 09:17 AM
Can we look at this page - with Green Lantern, Supergirl and Adam Strange all bloodily impaled - and finally admit that there's no such thing as a mainstream comic book anymore?
I enjoyed this series very much, but can't believe that Mark Waid would have written or George Perez would have drawn such a scene - especially on page 1 - if they thought there was even a remote chance of a kid seeing it. It's a nightmare image using 2 fairly recognizable DC characters.
It's further proof to the theory that there are very few people reading DC's superhero comics that began reading after the late 1980s - the last time there was a viable mainstream distribution system.
Since then, it's all older readers, most of whom don't even blink at such a scene.
- FE
Wickliffe OH
Joe Rice
08-24-2007, 09:19 AM
Can we look at this page - with Green Lantern, Supergirl and Adam Strange all bloodily impaled - and finally admit that there's no such thing as a mainstream comic book anymore?
No way! There's plenty of mainstream comics, good for kids. It's just that most don't have superheroes in them.
Cayman
08-24-2007, 09:23 AM
I would say The Brave & The Bold is specifically aimed at older comic readers. Part of its appeal is the nostalgic factor.
Can we look at this page - with Green Lantern, Supergirl and Adam Strange all bloodily impaled - and finally admit that there's no such thing as a mainstream comic book anymore?
I enjoyed this series very much, but can't believe that Mark Waid would have written or George Perez would have drawn such a scene - especially on page 1 - if they thought there was even a remote chance of a kid seeing it. It's a nightmare image using 2 fairly recognizable DC characters.
It's further proof to the theory that there are very few people reading DC's superhero comics that began reading after the late 1980s - the last time there was a viable mainstream distribution system.
Since then, it's all older readers, most of whom don't even blink at such a scene.
- FE
Wickliffe OH
No, I don't really think that we can make that assumption at all.
Afterall, Archie Comics are still the number three best selling comicbook company out there.
Shellhead
08-24-2007, 09:32 AM
I would say The Brave & The Bold is specifically aimed at older comic readers. Part of its appeal is the nostalgic factor.
Older readers such as Vlad Tepes?
Honestly, while the image might be a bit overboard, I don't think that there is all that much there worthy of raising a fuss over.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5163/bbza8.jpg
It certainly isn't the end of mainstream comics as we know it.
Maybe next time.
Erebus
08-24-2007, 09:45 AM
How young are we talking? The majority of super-hero mainstream comics say a lot of cursewords, so I'd keep them away from an 8 year old. But if a ten year old kid saw this, I don't think he'd be scarred for life or anything.
gentlesatirist
08-24-2007, 09:46 AM
...checking out an Archie comic at the rack near the magazines in a Border's, and he then picks up B&B #6 because it's got Batman and GL on the cover, it's OK for him to see 3 bloody impalings on page 1?
Does anybody even stop to consider that scenario happening? Or is the idea - as I'm starting to believe - to have kids introduced to these characters via TV cartoons and toy lines and only start reading superhero comics when they're teenagers at the earliest?
- FE
Joe Rice
08-24-2007, 09:48 AM
...checking out an Archie comic at the rack near the magazines in a Border's, and he then picks up B&B #6 because it's got Batman and GL on the cover, it's OK for him to see 3 bloody impalings on page 1?
Does anybody even stop to consider that scenario happening? Or is the idea - as I'm starting to believe - to have kids introduced to these characters via TV cartoons and toy lines and only start reading superhero comics when they're teenagers at the earliest?
- FE
Kids these days aren't really into superhero comics. They've got other comics to thrill them and help them escape. Superhero comics are pretty much aimed at middle-aged men who always read superhero comics. Not a great business model, but what can you do?
Cayman
08-24-2007, 09:51 AM
They could see impalings right on the cover of Sinestro Corps.
...checking out an Archie comic at the rack near the magazines in a Border's, and he then picks up B&B #6 because it's got Batman and GL on the cover, it's OK for him to see 3 bloody impalings on page 1?
Does anybody even stop to consider that scenario happening? Or is the idea - as I'm starting to believe - to have kids introduced to these characters via TV cartoons and toy lines and only start reading superhero comics when they're teenagers at the earliest?
- FE
Do you actually have kids?
I have three, and trust me, this is not the kind of drawing that would cause them any harm.
And to answer the question, most kids get introduced to comics in the same exact way they always have, their parents buy them a few.
Erebus
08-24-2007, 09:52 AM
...checking out an Archie comic at the rack near the magazines in a Border's, and he then picks up B&B #6 because it's got Batman and GL on the cover, it's OK for him to see 3 bloody impalings on page 1?
Does anybody even stop to consider that scenario happening? Or is the idea - as I'm starting to believe - to have kids introduced to these characters via TV cartoons and toy lines and only start reading superhero comics when they're teenagers at the earliest?
- FE
Why not? When I was ten, I used to stay up behind my parent's backs and watch rated R movies, and I turned out (relatively) fine. I'm definitely not recommending any kid to watch whatever the hell they want, but whats the big fuss about? I understand that a level of violence is too much for younger kids, but at a certain age, they're not going to have nightmares and life-long phobias from seeing something graphic from a comic book.
Kids these days aren't really into superhero comics. They've got other comics to thrill them and help them escape. Superhero comics are pretty much aimed at middle-aged men who always read superhero comics. Not a great business model, but what can you do?
I don't think I agree with you.
If superheros are such bad business, then why are they such good sellers as merchandise items aimed at young children?
If the only ones interested in them were middle-aged men, why the Hell is Wal-Mart stocked with Spider-Man jammies?
Joe Rice
08-24-2007, 09:56 AM
I don't think I agree with you.
If superheros are such bad business, then why are they such good sellers as merchandise items aimed at young children?
If the only ones interested in them were middle-aged men, why the Hell is Wal-Mart stocked with Spider-Man jammies?
Don't mistake superheroes with superhero comics as they're being produced today by DC and Marvel.
Kids LOVE superheroes. They just don't have much use for long, drawn-out soap operas that refer to things that were written before they were born.
Kids ALSO love comics. So you've got Bone selling in the millions through Scholastic and kids REALLY enjoying the few superhero comics that they find that are written with more than the middle-aged men in mind.
Cayman
08-24-2007, 10:02 AM
If the only ones interested in them were middle-aged men, why the Hell is Wal-Mart stocked with Spider-Man jammies?
And why can't I find them in my size? :mad:
Erebus
08-24-2007, 10:08 AM
And why can't I find them in my size? :mad:
I bought them all. Sorry, collector's item.
Don't mistake superheroes with superhero comics as they're being produced today by DC and Marvel.
Kids LOVE superheroes. They just don't have much use for long, drawn-out soap operas that refer to things that were written before they were born.
Kids ALSO love comics. So you've got Bone selling in the millions through Scholastic and kids REALLY enjoying the few superhero comics that they find that are written with more than the middle-aged men in mind.
Oh gotcha.
Now that I completly agree with.
I also find it kind of weird just how few actual Superhero books out there are aimed at kids.
Joe Rice
08-24-2007, 10:11 AM
Oh gotcha.
Now that I completly agree with.
I also find it kind of weird just how few actual Superhero books out there are aimed at kids.
You're telling the elementary-school teacher who buys comics as rewards . . .
CaptainCanada
08-24-2007, 10:19 AM
The current main line of comics is more written for teenagers and up (including the sizable adult fanbase). Given how expensive it can be to be a big fan of comics, teens are the first group with the kind of money necessary (not to mention that most comics are sold in shops these days, which have to sought out, as opposed to little kids stumbling across them on a newstand or wherever).
You're telling the elementary-school teacher who buys comics as rewards . . .
Last Christmas I decided to buy my granddaughter a big pile of comics as stocking stuffers and after looking around on the shelves in vain for stuff that she would like, I ended up buying about $30.00 worth of old Dell, Archie and Gold Key kids comics for her that she just went nuts over instead.
I was truly dissapointed at the modern selction.
Joe Rice
08-24-2007, 10:21 AM
Last Christmas I decided to buy my granddaughter a big pile of comics as stocking stuffers and after looking around on the shelves in vain for stuff that she would like, I ended up buying about $30.00 worth of old Dell, Archie and Gold Key kids comics for her that she just went nuts over instead.
I was truly dissapointed at the modern selction.
Smith's Shazam was a Godsend for me. Hoping Hunkel's followup monthly is good, too.
CaptainCanada
08-24-2007, 10:23 AM
The little four-issue collections of various Marvel Adventures titles are what I use for those situations.
I don't really see a problem with having a line for kids and a line for teenage/adult fans; they just need to get better at distributing both.
Smith's Shazam was a Godsend for me. Hoping Hunkel's followup monthly is good, too.
That does look like a solid attempt at a good kids comic.
gentlesatirist
08-24-2007, 10:24 AM
...I've got a 10-year-old daughter and a 7-year-old son. I wouldn't be so crass as to start a thread like this if I didn't have kids.
Secondly, everyone's got different standards for what they allow their kids to see and at what age. This particular image crosses the line for me. The blood, the image, the whole thing. For others, it may be perfectly fine.
What I'm saying is that if DC truly wants to grow the customer base for monthly superhero comics - and I'm not entirely convinced that they do - then having this particular image on the first page of a mainstream comic is not the way to go.
Maybe they stopped this one from making it to Border's. If so, that's a good idea. I don't think I'm in the majority on many topics, but I'd wager I am in the majority as a parent who doesn't want his school-age kids to see bloody impalings while also checking out an Archie or even a copy of the excellent DC all-ages titles like Teen Titans Go or Justice League Unlimited.
- FE
The little four-issue collections of various Marvel Adventures titles are what I use for those situations.
I don't really see a problem with having a line for kids and a line for teenage/adult fans; they just need to get better at distributing both.
Actually I am a real fan of the Marvel Adventures books and have bought a few of the digest collections for the grandkid.
They have good, clean art, decent stories and a definite sense of humor.
...I've got a 10-year-old daughter and a 7-year-old son. I wouldn't be so crass as to start a thread like this if I didn't have kids.
Secondly, everyone's got different standards for what they allow their kids to see and at what age. This particular image crosses the line for me. The blood, the image, the whole thing. For others, it may be perfectly fine.
What I'm saying is that if DC truly wants to grow the customer base for monthly superhero comics - and I'm not entirely convinced that they do - then having this particular image on the first page of a mainstream comic is not the way to go.
Maybe they stopped this one from making it to Border's. If so, that's a good idea. I don't think I'm in the majority on many topics, but I'd wager I am in the majority as a parent who doesn't want his school-age kids to see bloody impalings while also checking out an Archie or even a copy of the excellent DC all-ages titles like Teen Titans Go or Justice League Unlimited.
- FE
Fair enough.
Personally I am from the school of thought that doesn't worry all that much about protecting my kids from scary images.
On the whole I find kids to be a whole lot sturdier then society gives them credit for.
I should probably blame my mother for my attitude since she used to take me and my brother to horror movies all the time when we were kids, but the truth is that I have rarely agreed with what the majority of parents thought was appropriate.
Jack Zodiac
08-24-2007, 11:08 AM
Actually I am a real fan of the Marvel Adventures books and have bought a few of the digest collections for the grandkid.
They have good, clean art, decent stories and a definite sense of humor.
Marvel Adventures Avengers is the only Avengers book I can read anymore.
And here's a thought. Kids love superheroes, and kids love comics, so there's no reason they can't love superhero comics. If you're worried about the content of the superhero comics they're reading, flip through it before you buy it for 'em. Middle-aged men get their bloody impalings, and your kid gets happy fun with laser beams and men in tights.
gentlesatirist
08-24-2007, 11:35 AM
...and also frustrating to have to say "OK, these Batman comics are OK for kids - but these ones aren't" when at the end of the day we're still talking about an adult dressing up in tight clothing and running around and punching other adults in tight clothing.
- FE
CaptainCanada
08-24-2007, 11:39 AM
Superheroes are a genre; you could just as easily say that some fantasy stories about little dwarves with axes are okay for kids, and some aren't. The last two decades prove that could can tell fantastic, mature stories with them.
Jack Zodiac
08-24-2007, 12:13 PM
...and also frustrating to have to say "OK, these Batman comics are OK for kids - but these ones aren't" when at the end of the day we're still talking about an adult dressing up in tight clothing and running around and punching other adults in tight clothing.
- FE
That's business. They aren't going to make all of their books kid-friendly, or even aim them directly at children, when they have no market for it. They know what sells to their currently established fanbase, and that's what they'll pander to until that market diminishes. All you can do is get away from that fanbase and buy books aimed at other audiences, all ages or directly for kids.
saintsaucey
08-24-2007, 12:26 PM
whats traumatizing and a little rediculous is you starting each post in the title box and then continuing to the message box. the book ends on a happy note and is probably one of the best comic arcs I've read in a while. and I hate Perez. There are plenty of kid marketed titles from The Marvel Adventures to the Batman, Teen Titans Go and Legion of Superheroes in the 21st century plus you've got a company like arctic press who pretty much writes strictly for kids.
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