For Anyone who wants to know how the Scorpion fits into World War Hulk....

[CMBMOOL]

Well if anyone is confused as to how the New Scorpion fits into World War Hulk then look no further than this connection:

http://www.comicon.com/pulse/


And Look at this quote from an interview between the Pulse and co-creator of the New Scorpion, Fred Van Lente...



THE PULSE: What challenges are facing Carmilla this time around? What's she involved with now?

VAN LENTE: I guess I should declare a "Spoiler Alert" type situation here.

Way back in House of M, Peter David had Scorpion do battle with the Hulk, and she actually got the better of him, absorbing the ambient gamma radiation given off by his body and turning it into a toxin that she used to incapacitate him.


This little trick was not lost on the big-wigs at S.H.I.E.L.D., who now plan to use Scorp as their ace-in-the-hole now that Hulk has landed in a spaceship in the middle of Manhattan with his "Smash Face" on.

But in order to take out Hulk once and for all, Scorp will have to boost her power levels considerably. So she's been sent into the highly secure N.Y.P.D. long-term evidence storage facility to steal a mysterious item that will help her do just that.

Unfortunately, she's been followed to the facility by everyone's favorite mercenary and sort-of HFH member Paladin, looking to make a quick buck during the chaos of World War Hulk, and what could be more fun than two characters grabbing super villain weapons off the walls and shooting at each other with them for three issues? (These are only six-page back-ups...)

End Spoilers! (I always wanted to say that.)


Now what do you think of news like this... :D

[Gamma Burst]

That's brilliant,imo.:)

[Nate Grey]

Well, since my response contains spoilers:
And they're sure this will work twice? I guess so since no one gets this isn't the same Hulk, that this one actually plans and strategizes. And I really think the Hulk would be ready for her somehow someway. But they don't know that, so if they meet up this should be interesting.

[XPac]

Well, since my response contains spoilers:
And they're sure this will work twice? I guess so since no one gets this isn't the same Hulk, that this one actually plans and strategizes. And I really think the Hulk would be ready for her somehow someway. But they don't know that, so if they meet up this should be interesting.

I'm sure they think it's at least worth a shot. It's not like they have too many better options right now.

[Samuraixsithlord]

If Starks Nanites, The Sentrys Golden Aura, Adamantium shrapnal, and Stranges mind voodoo can't take the hulk down then making him a little sick isn't going to do it.


Its pretty much been shown that all of Starks and SHIELDs safeguards against the Hulk have failed at this moment (short of tranporting all of New York into an alternite dimension)

[drwho]

If Starks Nanites, The Sentrys Golden Aura, Adamantium shrapnal, and Stranges mind voodoo can't take the hulk down then making him a little sick isn't going to do it.


Its pretty much been shown that all of Starks and SHIELDs safeguards against the Hulk have failed at this moment (short of tranporting all of New York into an alternite dimension)

The nannites were never injected into the Hulk. In Avengers Initiative one of the trainees stole the nannites from the exact syringe dart used in World War Hulk.

[Magneto Rocks]

The nannites were never injected into the Hulk. In Avengers Initiative one of the trainees stole the nannites from the exact syringe dart used in World War Hulk.

Correct. AND we have no way of knowing if that was anywhere near as good as the Sentry's golden aura, AND of course we don't know how effective Strange might have been had he not been so desperately willing to believe Hulk could be "saved".

[XPac]

The nannites were never injected into the Hulk. In Avengers Initiative one of the trainees stole the nannites from the exact syringe dart used in World War Hulk.

Which is funny considering a gazillion darts were used for Spidey, yet only 1 dart was used for Hulk (the guy this tech was suppossedly designed to stop in the first place).

[Magneto Rocks]

Which is funny considering a gazillion darts were used for Spidey, yet only 1 dart was used for Hulk (the guy this tech was suppossedly designed to stop in the first place).

Not really. Tiny little darts were fired at Spidey, one COLOSSAL spike was used on the Hulk. And let's not forget it wasn't one nanite dart, but a container full of thousands of nanites- probably enough for tons of darts.

[XPac]

Not really. Tiny little darts were fired at Spidey, one COLOSSAL spike was used on the Hulk. And let's not forget it wasn't one nanite dart, but a container full of thousands of nanites- probably enough for tons of darts.

I still think it's funny they only used 1... if you feel otherwise and believe that was the most prudent course of action on their part, we can agree to disagree.

[Magneto Rocks]

I still think it's funny they only used 1... if you feel otherwise and believe that was the most prudent course of action on their part, we can agree to disagree.

Again, how do you know they only used one? There were countless thousands of nanites in that giant spike, normal darts wouldn't have pierced the Hulk's skin but I'd be willing to bet a dart has a few nanites and that spike had a giant vial, worth a couple dozen darts.

[CMBMOOL]

Well, since my response contains spoilers:
And they're sure this will work twice? I guess so since no one gets this isn't the same Hulk, that this one actually plans and strategizes. And I really think the Hulk would be ready for her somehow someway. But they don't know that, so if they meet up this should be interesting.

Well I guess this maybe why WWH has a mysterious hero at the end of the event. :D

[XPac]

Again, how do you know they only used one?

I'm assuming he used 1 dart. Only 1 dart was sabotaged. Maybe he used more (that would have been the smart thing to do). If that's the case, then we can probably assume that the nano's simply didn't work regardless of the sabotage.

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm assuming he used 1 dart. Only 1 dart was sabotaged. Maybe he used more (that would have been the smart thing to do). If that's the case, then we can probably assume that the nano's simply didn't work regardless of the sabotage.

I'm pretty sure it was a vial of nanites that was sabotaged, thus quite possibly enough for hundreds of darts...

[ivesaidway2much]

Which is funny considering a gazillion darts were used for Spidey, yet only 1 dart was used for Hulk (the guy this tech was suppossedly designed to stop in the first place).Tony didn't even check to see if the only weapon in his arsenal that had a chance of stopping the Hulk was loaded. Can you really surprised by any other time he may have shown a lack of foresight during the battle?

[redhulk]

Hey guys,

we all know the Nanite sabotage was a BONE to throw at the people who wanted ironman to win.

And here they are gnawing at that one bone like it is a meaty feast.

Before this nanite scrap people were whinging about the stupid way tony was fighting suddenly the nanite sabotage allowed a huge sigh of relief as they could now finally admit tony had his but handed to him BUT now they could have said...you know hulk was so lucky as tony nearly had him.

So let them have it.

Same as one minute they say reed is the most brilliant scientist, when he produces a sentry aura they say what a dumb idea and anyway it was probably useless.

Somehow i dont think reed would have tested something he thought would be useless with his family and close friends on the line, as he said it would be useless to try and match power with this hulk, now reed is no idiot (unless a skrull) and if he says matching power is no good i kinda believe him, hey even ironman said the army have NOTHING, nothing at all that can stop the hulk and as he is head of shield i am pretty sure he would know the type of weaponary they have, and that includes gamma syphons, inhibitors, gases and so on, he said they only have nukes and they won't work.

(which is a little impressive don't you think?, hmmm don't bother using your nukes against the Hulk it will only make him stronger!!, how many others can you say that for who are not cosmic, certainly couldn't say it for Thor, perhaps sentry but not many else)

So reed says no point trying force, Ironman put everything in the nanite plan as well, 2 of the biggest brains going for suppression of Hulk rather than destroying him (ok ironman was going to Kill bruces sorry ass after that)

But pretty much says a lot...so its pretty fair for the nanite sabotage to make a 'what if' as up till then they were all getting into a little strop.

So yeah, we know the army, ironman and reed openly admit they have nothing that can stop the Hulk, save the nanites, tony's negative zone whammy and sentry...not too shabby

even if the nanites worked kind the premise kind of stops the question about should tony have tried to use the extremis on Hulk, even HE doesn't think thats an option, and funnily enough the one wearing it would have a good idea of its powers.

he didn't ask duggan or amadeous to get any other weapon didn't even attempt to try...(apart from the murderously dangerous doomsday plan) so apart from sentry the rest in the marvel universe, the biggest brightest and best brains of the marvel universe think any other weapons or powers the heros possess (short of cosmic) are totally useless.

not too shabby hulk...;)

[StoneGold]

There is also the offhand chance she is his daughter. Something again initiated by PAD and reinforced by Van Lente, this time in Supervillain Team-Up.

[Crimson]

You have to question how they remember that... seeing as only a select few remember HoM.

[Bulky Brent]

She made a good appearance in WWH but I don't think she will be a instrumental character in stopping the Hulk.

[The Cool Thatguy]

You have to question how they remember that... seeing as only a select few remember HoM.

This was actually right after House of M, when Scorpion nailed him.

It's a smart tactic, but it's pretty foolish of them to expect it to take down Hulk without some other type of support. I mean, the trick fouled up Hulk, but only for a few minutes. And though I don't remember for sure, she nailed Banner, not Hulk.

[Crimson]

This was actually right after House of M, when Scorpion nailed him.

It's a smart tactic, but it's pretty foolish of them to expect it to take down Hulk without some other type of support. I mean, the trick fouled up Hulk, but only for a few minutes. And though I don't remember for sure, she nailed Banner, not Hulk.

Ah right... I need to reread that arc. It's somewhere around her.

The one who nailed Banner was Scorpions mother.

[Mikl C]

I am LURRRRRRVING the Scorpion h4h backup stories. <3333

[myslead]

Not really. Tiny little darts were fired at Spidey, one COLOSSAL spike was used on the Hulk. And let's not forget it wasn't one nanite dart, but a container full of thousands of nanites- probably enough for tons of darts.

exactly lol, there was like a gazillion darts in that huge dart.

[theardri]

Again, how do you know they only used one? There were countless thousands of nanites in that giant spike, normal darts wouldn't have pierced the Hulk's skin but I'd be willing to bet a dart has a few nanites and that spike had a giant vial, worth a couple dozen darts.


Ok stepping in as a scientist here. Nanites, really small, so lets change thousands to millions, and the small darts probably still held hundreds of thousands, and the big spike the whole wad.

I think the delivery system was the key (as already stated). One GOOD deep hit to make sure it got the hulk, as opposed to the machine gun on Spidey. After all Pete has NO armour, the hulk has dense as hell skin.

[dabig2]

This was actually right after House of M, when Scorpion nailed him.

It's a smart tactic, but it's pretty foolish of them to expect it to take down Hulk without some other type of support. I mean, the trick fouled up Hulk, but only for a few minutes. And though I don't remember for sure, she nailed Banner, not Hulk.


When you say nail, you mean nail as in hit. And hit as in physically hurt. And physically hurt as in poisoned scorpion sting, right ;) Otherwise it was her mom, AIM scientist supreme or whatever who truly "nailed" Banner.

Anyways she stung Banner as he was talking with her mom initially. He Hulked out and seemed a little sluggish still ;and then she touched Hulk's head again which made him move back some feet before he threw burning sticks at them and burned down most of the forest. Wasn't exactly that big of a deal IMO so I hope she finds a Celestial device or something.

[bring back leigon]

i don't remember this bit re hulk v scorpian in HoM,
can someone let me know which issue this was in.
thanks

[Magneto Rocks]

Hey guys,

we all know the Nanite sabotage was a BONE to throw at the people who wanted ironman to win.

And here they are gnawing at that one bone like it is a meaty feast.

Well... it's a "bone" which COMPLETELY throws into question whether or not Hulk beat Tony "fair and square" so yeah, I'd say it's pretty interesting and pretty meaty.


Before this nanite scrap people were whinging about the stupid way tony was fighting suddenly the nanite sabotage allowed a huge sigh of relief as they could now finally admit tony had his but handed to him BUT now they could have said...you know hulk was so lucky as tony nearly had him.

I wasn't whining, I was proud of my boy Tony up there like a hero, and when his plan didn't work, that was okay.

Now I can be even happier because I know that if it weren't for sabotage, it may well have worked. Makes him look smarter into the bargain.


So let them have it.

Yeah... I would say it's like Hulk fans and "Maybe Black Bolt did scream!" but the difference is, there's a lot more on panel evidence to back up the idea that the sabotage foiled Tony's plan than there is on that matter.


Same as one minute they say reed is the most brilliant scientist, when he produces a sentry aura they say what a dumb idea and anyway it was probably useless.

Er... what? No, it's pretty consistent; he IS The world's most brilliant scientist- hell, he';s the smartest man on Earth. And the plan was MORONIC, shouldn't have taken anything like the time it did to build and was fairly out of character. Pak doesn't seem to "get" Reed as much as he does Tony anyway.


Somehow i dont think reed would have tested something he thought would be useless with his family and close friends on the line, as he said it would be useless to try and match power with this hulk, now reed is no idiot (unless a skrull) and if he says matching power is no good i kinda believe him,

Reed also said shooting the Hulk into space was good, so it's not like the guy is flawless. He was poorly written in this instance, simple as that.

And incidentally, he didn't want his family anywhere near there, if you remember, so clearly he knew there was a good chance of failure. Which is, y'know, not that hard to work out if I can do it without a degree in every science known to a man and a couple of dozen not.



hey even ironman said the army have NOTHING, nothing at all that can stop the hulk and as he is head of shield i am pretty sure he would know the type of weaponary they have, and that includes gamma syphons, inhibitors, gases and so on, he said they only have nukes and they won't work.

Reed's sixty five times smarter than Tony and every SHIELD scientist put together, and that's on a bad day.


(which is a little impressive don't you think?, hmmm don't bother using your nukes against the Hulk it will only make him stronger!!, how many others can you say that for who are not cosmic, certainly couldn't say it for Thor, perhaps sentry but not many else)

Er... yes, yes you could.

In fact Thor WAS nuked, and it DID make him angrier and stronger! And this was when the nuke was detonated from about a foot beneath him!


So reed says no point trying force, Ironman put everything in the nanite plan as well, 2 of the biggest brains going for suppression of Hulk rather than destroying him (ok ironman was going to Kill bruces sorry ass after that)

But pretty much says a lot...so its pretty fair for the nanite sabotage to make a 'what if' as up till then they were all getting into a little strop.

Er... I'm not really following. Reed came up with a pretty rubbish plan, considering his history, and Tony's plan MAY have worked if not for sabotage. I'm not saying definitely, but you can't deny there's a good chance. Y


So yeah, we know the army, ironman and reed openly admit they have nothing that can stop the Hulk, save the nanites, tony's negative zone whammy and sentry...not too shabby

Well sure. Of course, if Reed were to read any of those in-Marvel-Universe Fantastic Four comics based on his past adventures he'd realise he has eighty nine ways of delaying the Hulk at least a few months, even years, and another couple hundred more permanent solutions without even resorting to killing, but what ya gonna do, right?


even if the nanites worked kind the premise kind of stops the question about should tony have tried to use the extremis on Hulk, even HE doesn't think thats an option, and funnily enough the one wearing it would have a good idea of its powers.

Er... what? Extremis has nothing to do with anything, he didn't use his extremis powers on Hulk. Except that if he hadn't had them, he would have died in the fall of Avengers Tower, of course.


he didn't ask duggan or amadeous to get any other weapon didn't even attempt to try...(apart from the murderously dangerous doomsday plan) so apart from sentry the rest in the marvel universe, the biggest brightest and best brains of the marvel universe think any other weapons or powers the heros possess (short of cosmic) are totally useless.

not too shabby hulk...;)

Which of course assumes they're being written competently.

But no one ever denied Hulk was dangerous. Though one could argue, both Hulk AND Thor have now got a mad-on for other heroes and with their battle companions, decided to take them all out.

The difference is, Thor took over the Earth with utter ease :p

[AnthonyJ]

Well... it's a "bone" which COMPLETELY throws into question whether or not Hulk beat Tony "fair and square" so yeah, I'd say it's pretty interesting and pretty meaty.
Well, I don't see much evidence for Hulk being responsible for the sabotage, so I wouldn't call it an unfair victory, just a victory with a situational modifier that favored the Hulk. Frankly, you need stuff like that for WWH to make any sense at all -- without an enormous amount of luck and author fiat, the Hulk just isn't normally capable of winning this fight (not Hulk vs IM, that's winnable. Hulk vs the MU, not so much).

[ivesaidway2much]

Yeah... I would say it's like Hulk fans and "Maybe Black Bolt did scream!" but the difference is, there's a lot more on panel evidence to back up the idea that the sabotage foiled Tony's plan than there is on that matter.Actually there is plenty of on-panel evidence that Black Bolt did scream. In an issue of Iron man no less. It's so clearly depicted on the page, that a creator of the book felt it necessary to come to these boards to clarify what we saw.


Er... what? No, it's pretty consistent; he IS The world's most brilliant scientist- hell, he';s the smartest man on Earth. And the plan was MORONIC, shouldn't have taken anything like the time it did to build and was fairly out of character. Pak doesn't seem to "get" Reed as much as he does Tony anyway.I still don't understand. Why was the plan moronic? Reed took something that had a 100&#37; success rate at rendering the Hulk harmless in moments, and replicated it. What was the flaw in his reasoning?


Er... I'm not really following. Reed came up with a pretty rubbish plan, considering his history, and Tony's plan MAY have worked if not for sabotage. I'm not saying definitely, but you can't deny there's a good chance.The Hulk kicked Reed's butt the very first time he ever met the FF. He's done so on multiple occasions since then. He has numerous victories over the likes of Dr. Doom, Tony Stark, Hank Pym, the Leader, Bruce Banner, and Spider-man. There are few, if any, Earth-based superhumans that can claim to have smarter advesaries than he does. Where did the notion that the Hulk is no match for some prep-time come from?

[Magneto Rocks]

Actually there is plenty of on-panel evidence that Black Bolt did scream. In an issue of Iron man no less. It's so clearly depicted on the page, that a creator of the book felt it necessary to come to these boards to clarify what we saw.

Right, and to clarify that it was NOT what you thought it was.

So no, there is one piece of what MAY be circumstantial evidence that he ight have screamed which was totally, and in no uncertain terms, refuted.

You got nothing.


I still don't understand. Why was the plan moronic? Reed took something that had a 100% success rate at rendering the Hulk harmless in moments, and replicated it. What was the flaw in his reasoning?

Let's see for just a moment.

1- Hulk was clearly unlike the Hulk who was calmed by it before
2- When he WAS calmed, there was basically nothing to do with him
3- All it took was Hulk resisting for five seconds to discover it was a dupe
4- There was no guarantee it would have the same effect as the real one
5- He had ZERO back up plan- at least no practical one, VERY OOC for Reed
6- It apparantly took him an entire DAY to make with help from another super genius, which is insane since Reed has constructed far more complex devices in an hour!

In short, it was an utterly idiotic plan in every sense of the word, and the most staggeringly out of character flaw in a fairly tighty story so far.

But then, Pak wrote a pretty hideous Reed in both IH 100 and 106, so I'm not particularly surprised. At least his Tony is much better.


The Hulk kicked Reed's butt the very first time he ever met the FF. He's done so on multiple occasions since then. He has numerous victories over the likes of Dr. Doom, Tony Stark, Hank Pym, the Leader, Bruce Banner, and Spider-man. There are few, if any, Earth-based superhumans that can claim to have smarter advesaries than he does. Where did the notion that the Hulk is no match for some prep-time come from?

Well... from everywhere, really. Because what Pak is doing is GROSSLY underestimating Reed Richards' intelligence. Again, this is a man who could almost certainly figure out how to make the SUN go out if you gave him a week. The idea that he has not had eight different plans "just in case" ever since he found out Hulk didn't land where they sent him is ludicrous. The idea that in 24 hours, all he makes is this shoddy device... is worse.

[XPac]

Well... from everywhere, really. Because what Pak is doing is GROSSLY underestimating Reed Richards' intelligence. Again, this is a man who could almost certainly figure out how to make the SUN go out if you gave him a week. The idea that he has not had eight different plans "just in case" ever since he found out Hulk didn't land where they sent him is ludicrous. The idea that in 24 hours, all he makes is this shoddy device... is worse.

But you also have to consider that this is a guy that has likely had YEARS and YEARS to come up with some kind of way to stop a weaker Hulk, yet has never been able to come up with a sucessful one. If he did, the probably wouldn't have needed to launch Hulk into space in the first place (though they actually didn't since Strange was there... but that's an arguement for a different thread).

I think the person that was really jobbed was Black Panther. Reed along with the rest of the Illuminati already conceded that there was nothing they could do to deal with the Hulk (though Tony strangely was able to come up with something quickly enough once the issue became less about helping Bruce and more about helping himself). So it's not shocking Reed didn't magically come up with a sollution in this 24 hour period. But BP was on a role just coming off taking down Surfer (and Galactus to a degree). Facing Hulk should have been a bit anti-climactic by comarrison, especially since on paper he needed the Hulk for his anti Galactus plan.

I guess BP spent so many years practicing his anti-Surfer armbars that he didn't have time to think of a way to take down Hulk.

[Magneto Rocks]

But you also have to consider that this is a guy that has likely had YEARS and YEARS to come up with some kind of way to stop a weaker Hulk, yet has never been able to come up with a sucessful one. If he did, the probably wouldn't have needed to launch Hulk into space in the first place (though they actually didn't since Strange was there... but that's an arguement for a different thread).

I think the person that was really jobbed was Black Panther. Reed along with the rest of the Illuminati already conceded that there was nothing they could do to deal with the Hulk (though Tony strangely was able to come up with something quickly enough once the issue became less about helping Bruce and more about helping himself). So it's not shocking Reed didn't magically come up with a sollution in this 24 hour period. But BP was on a role just coming off taking down Surfer (and Galactus to a degree). Facing Hulk should have been a bit anti-climactic by comarrison, especially since on paper he needed the Hulk for his anti Galactus plan.

I guess BP spent so many years practicing his anti-Surfer armbars that he didn't have time to think of a way to take down Hulk.

As usual, my friend, we disagree. Reed didn't need something to permanently stop the Hulk there and then- indeed, his Sentry plan wouldn't have done that. He needed something to SLOW him down, delay him, buy Reed more time. And there are a thousand things he could have done whcih would have been more effective than the Sentry deception.

[XPac]

As usual, my friend, we disagree. Reed didn't need something to permanently stop the Hulk there and then- indeed, his Sentry plan wouldn't have done that. He needed something to SLOW him down, delay him, buy Reed more time. And there are a thousand things he could have done whcih would have been more effective than the Sentry deception.

This plan probably came closer to working than any of Reeds other attempts at dealing with Hulk (aside from the Illuminati rocket ship). There is a logic to the plan... Hulks is fueled by strength, and Sentry's aura calms Hulk. Not the best plan I've ever seen, but I can see the logic in it.

I agree on paper Reed should have been able to come up with something. But history is on Paks side as far as having Reed job to the Hulk, so I don't have a huge problem with it. Though thousand other things Reed could have done would have likely been EXACTLY as effective as the Sentry deception... being not at all. Reed in the years he's had to come up with any sort of way of dealing with the Hulk has yet to prove that assertion wrong.

[Magneto Rocks]

This plan probably came closer to working than any of Reeds other attempts at dealing with Hulk (aside from the Illuminati rocket ship). There is a logic to the plan... Hulks is fueled by strength, and Sentry's aura calms Hulk. Not the best plan I've ever seen, but I can see the logic in it.

I agree on paper Reed should have been able to come up with something. But history is on Paks side as far as having Reed job to the Hulk, so I don't have a huge problem with it. Though thousand other things Reed could have done would have likely been EXACTLY as effective as the Sentry deception... being not at all. Reed in the years he's had to come up with any sort of way of dealing with the Hulk has yet to prove that assertion wrong.

You don't think Reed could have whipped up an energy shield around the baxter Building which would take even the newly powered Hulk a good few hours to break? you don't think he could have easily teleported Hulk to another system, or shrunk him to the size of a pea, or gany of a hundred ideas I'm coming up with on the fly which are better plans with stronger chances of working.

Sure, history has Reed job to the Hulk. Doesn't mean he has to job yet again.

[XPac]

You don't think Reed could have whipped up an energy shield around the baxter Building which would take even the newly powered Hulk a good few hours to break? you don't think he could have easily teleported Hulk to another system, or shrunk him to the size of a pea, or gany of a hundred ideas I'm coming up with on the fly which are better plans with stronger chances of working.

Sure, history has Reed job to the Hulk. Doesn't mean he has to job yet again.

Considering Reeds reliance on Sue for Force Fields, I don't think he could have come up with anything stronger than Sue's force field to stop the Hulk. And that didn't work.

If Reed had the means of teleporting Hulk to another system, I'll wager they wouldn't have needed to trick him into a rocket, so I'll assume that's not an option.

Do I think Reed had other options? Sure. Do I think they would have been any more sucessful than every other time Reed has tried stoping the Hulk? Honestly, no.

[Quinch]

Mags once again...Please let this be the last time-
Reed has not ONCE succeded in curing Banner or doing anything but somehow slowing Hulk down so Banner can take over.
Not once in all the continuity.
You can rant and rave all you like- Reed simply CAN'T do ANYTHING when Banner is on the same side as Hulk.
Continuity proves it and you are whistling into the wind.

(Caps for emphasis)

[dabig2]

You don't think Reed could have whipped up an energy shield around the baxter Building which would take even the newly powered Hulk a good few hours to break? you don't think he could have easily teleported Hulk to another system, or shrunk him to the size of a pea, or gany of a hundred ideas I'm coming up with on the fly which are better plans with stronger chances of working.

Sure, history has Reed job to the Hulk. Doesn't mean he has to job yet again.

I'm pretty sure Reed was working under the same logic as Strange here. You can send him away and shrink him and whatever....but he'll always come back, only angrier and more powerful. And probably with more help. And unlike your boy Tony, he shares the same feeling as Strange to help the Hulk more than just kill him/send him away which solves absolutely nothing in the long run. There's nothing wrong with Reed going for the Sentry aura to calm the Hulk down into a docile pet.

[Magneto Rocks]

Mags once again...Please let this be the last time-
Reed has not ONCE succeded in curing Banner or doing anything but somehow slowing Hulk down so Banner can take over.
Not once in all the continuity.
You can rant and rave all you like- Reed simply CAN'T do ANYTHING when Banner is on the same side as Hulk.
Continuity proves it and you are whistling into the wind.

(Caps for emphasis)

Er... so? None of that was important when Reed has thousands of devices that would have been more effective than his actual plan, and could easily have built one on the spot that would be better.

The guy takes 48 hours to make a machine with the potential to solve world hunger forever, I doubt it takes him 24 hours to duplicate the Sentry's powers.



I'm pretty sure Reed was working under the same logic as Strange here. You can send him away and shrink him and whatever....but he'll always come back, only angrier and more powerful. And probably with more help. And unlike your boy Tony, he shares the same feeling as Strange to help the Hulk more than just kill him/send him away which solves absolutely nothing in the long run. There's nothing wrong with Reed going for the Sentry aura to calm the Hulk down into a docile pet.

There is when had any sane person been there, with NO foreknowledge that Hulk must win by comic requirements etc, they would have been able to tell him it wouldn't work. To be fair, killing Hulk WOULD solve the problem in the long run. Sending him away stalls it... but then all Reed's plan did was try to stall him anyway.

[XPac]

Er... so? None of that was important when Reed has thousands of devices that would have been more effective than his actual plan, and could easily have built one on the spot that would be better.

The guy takes 48 hours to make a machine with the potential to solve world hunger forever, I doubt it takes him 24 hours to duplicate the Sentry's powers.




There is when had any sane person been there, with NO foreknowledge that Hulk must win by comic requirements etc, they would have been able to tell him it wouldn't work. To be fair, killing Hulk WOULD solve the problem in the long run. Sending him away stalls it... but then all Reed's plan did was try to stall him anyway.

Using Sentry's power to calm Hulk potentially might do more than just stall Hulk... it might depower him. Hulks power level to a degree is effected by his level of anger. And Reed knows that Sentrys powers can calm Hulk.

So at least in theory even if it doesn't completely stop Hulk, it might calm him to a point where he can be reasoned with. Or in the least, he might not be as physically strong. Which under the circumstances would be a plus.

This of course failed, like anything else Reed would have tried. Again, Reed has yet to prove that assertion wrong. But there is a rationale to doing things the way Reed did them.

[Hulk Strongest One]

Ok stepping in as a scientist here. Nanites, really small, so lets change thousands to millions, and the small darts probably still held hundreds of thousands, and the big spike the whole wad.

I think the delivery system was the key (as already stated). One GOOD deep hit to make sure it got the hulk, as opposed to the machine gun on Spidey. After all Pete has NO armour, the hulk has dense as hell skin.

Exactly. The whole point of "nanotechnology" is to produce countless millions to do the work on individual cells, if not molecules themselves.

One nanite could go do its thing inside a human body, and the person would grow old and die before it accomplished anything significant.

But millions, or billions? Or trillions? Your body has something like 100 trillion cells in it.

To take out the Hulk, who, based on his size, probably has on the order of a quadrillion cells, each of which must be stripped of gamma radiation, he'd require a hundred billion nanites easy. Any fewer, and the other, still-infected cells would heal up the "cleaned" ones faster than the sparse nanites could bring them down.

[Hulk Strongest One]

Using Sentry's power to calm Hulk potentially might do more than just stall Hulk... it might depower him. Hulks power level to a degree is effected by his level of anger. And Reed knows that Sentrys powers can calm Hulk.

So at least in theory even if it doesn't completely stop Hulk, it might calm him to a point where he can be reasoned with.

I believe this was the intention. However, this was not a savage Hulk variation, but rather an intelligent one on a serious, determined mission.

It did look like it was working, but when Hulk went to shake Sentry's hand, the "hand" got crushed. Whether this was deliberate on Hulk's part to show his determination, or just a miscalculation on Reed's part (Hulk shaking hands with someone he knew was also very strong, he might just squeeze hard enough to crush machinery) I don't think we know at the moment.

Given the time frame, it's highly possible Reed just built the pseudo-Sentry to be functional for the aura, and didn't bother "hardening" the device; hence Hulk may have just squeezed sensitive, fragile electronics, and crushed it purely by accident. I.e. he got very lucky.

Of course, his rage will have to carry him thru the battle with Sentry later, lest he get easily disabled again. We shall see...

[Quinch]

It did look like it was working, but when Hulk went to shake Sentry's hand, the "hand" got crushed. Whether this was deliberate on Hulk's part to show his determination, or just a miscalculation on Reed's part (Hulk shaking hands with someone he knew was also very strong, he might just squeeze hard enough to crush machinery) I don't think we know at the moment.

Given the time frame, it's highly possible Reed just built the pseudo-Sentry to be functional for the aura, and didn't bother "hardening" the device; hence Hulk may have just squeezed sensitive, fragile electronics, and crushed it purely by accident. I.e. he got very lucky.


Exactly.
remember when Hulk saw 'Golden Man' In the Hulk cave ? He was so happy to see Sentry that he almost Broke his ribs with a Hulk Hug?

I think Reed just didn't expect it -otherwise - it sure looked like it was working...

[Hulk Strongest One]

Well... it's a "bone" which COMPLETELY throws into question whether or not Hulk beat Tony "fair and square" so yeah, I'd say it's pretty interesting and pretty meaty.

He did beat him fair and square. The only question is whether this counts as beating Iron Man with full "Iron Man prep".

Hulk certainly whooped what appears to be the most physically powerful Iron Man suit ever, by a long shot.

I also note these battles seem to require every bit of planning to go off as planned in order to be considered as such. As if the Hulk must stand there and let person X do all person X's tricks to him just so he can shrug it off.

Makes for a better action sequence, I suppose. But it also makes Hulk out as a lousy strategist. But clapping, knocking out Wolverine for a few seconds, then pounding him isn't as exciting, is it?

[ivesaidway2much]

Right, and to clarify that it was NOT what you thought it was.

So no, there is one piece of what MAY be circumstantial evidence that he ight have screamed which was totally, and in no uncertain terms, refuted.

You got nothing.


Well... from everywhere, really. Because what Pak is doing is GROSSLY underestimating Reed Richards' intelligence. Again, this is a man who could almost certainly figure out how to make the SUN go out if you gave him a week. The idea that he has not had eight different plans "just in case" ever since he found out Hulk didn't land where they sent him is ludicrous. The idea that in 24 hours, all he makes is this shoddy device... is worse.I still don't see how Pak is grossly underestimating anyone. But since you seem to elevate what the creators say above the actual medium. Pak has said on numerous occasion that this is the strongest incarnation of the Hulk ever. The Hulk is a guy who has one-punched Dormamu, separated matter from anti-matter, punched a hole in reality, and sonic clapped away a galaxy destroying energy blast using only brute strength. But this incarnation beats them all. If Pak's word is to be taken as gospel, putting out the sun in a week would pale in comparison to taking on the strongest Hulk incarnation. Heck, in that light, channeling Zom seems like a pretty reasonable idea.


The guy takes 48 hours to make a machine with the potential to solve world hunger forever, I doubt it takes him 24 hours to duplicate the Sentry's powers.How long did it take him to build and perfect Clor? The machine-clone who didn't have Thor's powers and wasn't even a match for Hercules without the element of surprise.

Plus, the Hulk came up with a potential cure for Sakaar's world hunger in far less than 48 hours. Reed should have just come to him for advice.:)

[Psyco panda]

Er... so? None of that was important when Reed has thousands of devices that would have been more effective than his actual plan, and could easily have built one on the spot that would be better.

The guy takes 48 hours to make a machine with the potential to solve world hunger forever, I doubt it takes him 24 hours to duplicate the Sentry's powers.

And yet theres still world hunger.



There is when had any sane person been there, with NO foreknowledge that Hulk must win by comic requirements etc, they would have been able to tell him it wouldn't work. To be fair, killing Hulk WOULD solve the problem in the long run. Sending him away stalls it... but then all Reed's plan did was try to stall him anyway.

You don't think Captain America could have come up with a better plan to fight the SHRA?

Or that the combined brainpower of Tony Stark, Reed Richards, and Hank Pym couldn't have thought up a few more safeguards to keep their Thor clone-cyborg from killing Goliath, or better yet a better plan then a Thor clone-cyborg?

Or that NO ONE on Earth would have noticed that Annihilus was destroying half the universe?

or that they'd really let cop killing psychos like Norman Osborn lead a government organization like the T-bolts, and let even crazier psychos like Bullseye out in public, even with nanites in his blood?

I admire your enthusiasm for a good debate, but there is a reason people say "its just a comic book." Your applying logic and continuity to a universe not necessarily bound to either when drama is involved.

Yeah, Pak isn't showing Reed half as smart as he should be. It happens all the time.