Checkmate by Greg Rucka / What is your verdict ?

[sabongero]

Checkmate by Greg Rucka is not your standard superhero DC comic book. Checkmate is a United Nations sanctioned international organization that deals with metahuman threats in a political and covert manner. Personally, I like it as it has been pretty solid every month, and is something different than the usual superhero comic book put out there. In the able hands of Greg Rucka, this has been an enjoyable book.

What are your pros and cons on this title ?

[sabongero]

It's too bad DC is losing Rucka to Marvel. This was a pretty solid series.

[carabas]

A tragic loss.
Personally, I blame the whole Bat-Woman thing. I mean, there's two whole, complete issues of an ongoing Bat-Woman series by Rucka and J.H. Williams II lying in a desk somewhere at DC that they refuse to print for unclear reasons.

[sabongero]

A tragic loss.
Personally, I blame the whole Bat-Woman thing. I mean, there's two whole, complete issues of an ongoing Bat-Woman series by Rucka and J.H. Williams II lying in a desk somewhere at DC that they refuse to print for unclear reasons.

Wow! I didn't know that. A Bat-Family character under Rucka's hands would have been great. I liked his and Brubakers' run on Detective Comics a few years back. What a shame for DC.

[carabas]

It gets worse. There's also two fully completed issues of another Bat-Woman ongoing series by Devin Grayson (and I forget who did the art) that was supposed to go out with One Year Later, burried for unrevealed reasons. The character was instead dropped into 52 at the last moment.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Pros: Awesome concept.

Cons: Everything else.

Honestly, I wanted to like Checkmate, but IMO it reads far too much like a super hero book and not a spy book. The morality was black and white, not nearly enough attention to detail (they recruit the Outsiders behind the UN's back, yet use all kinds of Checkmate resources and even bring them back to the castle!) and it's politics were naive, to be kind (United States=Bad, Bane, Russia, China=Good!).

Spy books should be murky, down and dirty. Checkmate never approaches that and it's a real shame.

[pryde15]

I only bought it occasionally, and even then, it was just for Fire's appearances.

[DWEarhart]

Rucka's still writing for DC. He's a got a new mini-series coming out after Final Crisis.

[rwe1138]

I picked up the first two trades after hearing nothing but good things. It just didn't hook me.

[The Xenos]

Checkmate with Rucka is pure win. Of course now that they're replacing him with Bruce Jones, I'm dropping it like a brick.

[princesa]

This is a very good book, its how essentially how I think SHIELD should be portrayed. Especially the international aspect.

[Gozwald73]

I'm really dissapointed to hear rumours that this book may be on the cut-list. It is such a great read, nice to delve into the more adult side of the DCU in this title. I will miss it sorely if it goes :frown:

[carabas]

it's politics were naive, to be kind (United States=Bad, Bane, Russia, China=Good!).I don't see how you can count Russia and China as being good here. And whike the USA have been cast as antagonists they haven't really been portrayed as evil either. Well, not more so than any other Amanda Waller story. America does have serious real life issues with the UN.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't see how you can count Russia and China as being good here. And whike the USA have been cast as antagonists they haven't really been portrayed as evil either. Well, not more so than any other Amanda Waller story. America does have serious real life issues with the UN.

Because while emphasize is put on what the U.S. is doing is wrong, the stuff that Bane, Russia and China do wrong is basically hand waved away as necessary evil. I mean, Waller couldn't even rescue a child from a government that was exploiting him without the tone being against her.

Granted U.S. policy sucks, but we're still better than Russia and China. Bane, who knows?:tongue:

[Sean Walsh]

It's too bad DC is losing Rucka to Marvel. This was a pretty solid series.

They're not losing him to Marvel. If anything, he's not going exclusive with anyone as DC kinda wore him out with the exclusivity thing.

He's working for both: co-writing some Daredevil issues with Bru, and writing a big FINAL CRISIS mini (with new DC exclusive artist Philip Tan) featuring the Spectre and the Question.

[AllisterH]

Because while emphasize is put on what the U.S. is doing is wrong, the stuff that Bane, Russia and China do wrong is basically hand waved away as necessary evil. I mean, Waller couldn't even rescue a child from a government that was exploiting him without the tone being against her.

Granted U.S. policy sucks, but we're still better than Russia and China. Bane, who knows?:tongue:

I kind of noticed that too.

But then again, this is how the superheroes seem to treat America in the DCU. I think a lot of writers tend to forget that quite frankly, you do NOT want Russia or China as the world's global superpower.

If there must be one, one of the Western nations (UK, America, hell even Australia) is a better choice.

You think Gandhi would've had as much success if it hadn't been the Brits he was protesting against but say the Russians? Yeah.....

[Usernamessd]

Checkmate by Greg Rucka is not your standard superhero DC comic book. Checkmate is a United Nations sanctioned international organization that deals with metahuman threats in a political and covert manner. Personally, I like it as it has been pretty solid every month, and is something different than the usual superhero comic book put out there. In the able hands of Greg Rucka, this has been an enjoyable book.

What are your pros and cons on this title ?

Hate it,It also has a far-right stance which is off-putting

[Pixie_Solanas]

Hate it,It also has a far-right stance which is off-putting

LOL! I'm as left as left gets, and i didn't get the right-wing vibe from the book. At all.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Hate it,It also has a far-right stance which is off-putting

Umm, what? How the heck do you figure that?

[titanfan]

Hate it,It also has a far-right stance which is off-putting

It has a slightly left stance if anything.

The characters who come aross as right-leaning at times (mainly Amanda and her cronies) are kind of the "bad guys" of Checkmate.

[The Cool Thatguy]

It has a slightly left stance if anything.

The characters who come aross as right-leaning at times (mainly Amanda and her cronies) are kind of the "bad guys" of Checkmate.

Which, honestly, was another thing I didn't like about Checkmate. Amanda Waller is supposed to be a morally grey character, but Rucka made her and out and out villain and government lackey (he's hardly the first, mind).

[carabas]

Which, honestly, was another thing I didn't like about Checkmate. Amanda Waller is supposed to be a morally grey character, but Rucka made her and out and out villain and government lackey (he's hardly the first, mind).He did no such thing. He made her an antagonist of the main characters, sure, but a villain? And she already was a government mackey before Rucka got her. She was in Lex Luthor's cabinet for crying out loud.

Waller had the best interests of the USA at hand. The 'heroes' had the best interests of the UN and Checkmate at hand. This simply had to come to blows at one point. But Waller was not potrayed villainously. Or at least no more than she was way back in Suicide Squad, when she blackmailed Batman into not shutting her blatantly illegal operation down.

[The Cool Thatguy]

He did no such thing. He made her an antagonist of the main characters, sure, but a villain? And she already was a government mackey before Rucka got her. She was in Lex Luthor's cabinet for crying out loud.

Waller had the best interests of the USA at hand. The 'heroes' had the best interests of the UN and Checkmate at hand. This simply had to come to blows at one point. But Waller was not potrayed villainously. Or at least no more than she was way back in Suicide Squad, when she blackmailed Batman into not shutting her blatantly illegal operation down.

He made Waller a villain, there's no two ways about it (I'd add that serving in Luthor's adminstration was terribly OOC for her).

Waller blackmailed Fire into committing murder. She sabotaged the joint Checkmate/Outsiders mission, getting Sasha tortured and had another Checkmate agent shot and nearly killed as a warning. What did Waller ever do in Checkmate that actually helped the organization?

Her character didn't resemble her Suicide Squad. In Suicide Squad, Waller balked at purely political missions. In Checkmate, she performed nothing but political missions. In Suicide Squad, she valued the lives of her agents even though she took risks. In Checkmate, Waller ratted out a Checkmate op just to save her own skin.

Yes, she blackmailed Batman. But she was doing so in defense of an organization that had prevented a terrorist attack on American soil, killed Brimstone when the JLA failed and discredited William Hell, who was inflaming racial tensions in Central City.

In Suicide Squad, Waller's ends always meant taking down the bad guys or defending innocent people. In Checkmate, all she ever does is act on behalf of vague imperial United States interests. Big difference there.

[carabas]

Waller isn't so much a member of Checkmate as she is an American operative infilrtated in Checkmate. Her goal is bringing Checkmate unedr American control again. So obviously, she is going to do her level best at sabotaging the UN checkmate at every point.
That doesn't make her a villain, justa patriotic spook. And a de facto enemy of Checkmate.
Of course, Waller from her point of view sees Sasha, Khalid and the rest as enemies, or at least not as allies of the USA, and are therefore free game.
I can't check because I loaned out my books, but if The Wall ratted out a Checkmate op, then sabotaging Checkmate is at least half of her goal there.

And none of this moves her from grey into black. It's just that Rucka writes these sort of stories with a bit more realism than Ostrander, which by no means is meant to be taken as an insult for Ostrander, who still writes better Star Wars than George Lucas ever did.
Check out Queen& Country some time.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Waller isn't so much a member of Checkmate as she is an American operative infilrtated in Checkmate. Her goal is bringing Checkmate unedr American control again. So obviously, she is going to do her level best at sabotaging the UN checkmate at every point.
That doesn't make her a villain, justa patriotic spook. And a de facto enemy of Checkmate.
Of course, Waller from her point of view sees Sasha, Khalid and the rest as enemies, or at least not as allies of the USA, and are therefore free game.
I can't check because I loaned out my books, but if The Wall ratted out a Checkmate op, then sabotaging Checkmate is at least half of her goal there.

And none of this moves her from grey into black. It's just that Rucka writes these sort of stories with a bit more realism than Ostrander, which by no means is meant to be taken as an insult for Ostrander, who still writes better Star Wars than George Lucas ever did.
Check out Queen& Country some time.

If Waller wanted it under American control, she could have sabotaged the first mission of the book. Instead, she helped keep Checkmate afloat because that's what the president wanted. She still ran her own agenda at the time though.

As for more realistic?

Not hardly. Rucka wrote the book as black and white and anything resembling political reality was chucked out at the beginning.

The best example would be when Sasha had her agent trying to infiltrate Kobra and Steel almost shut it down. Sasha acted like the terrorist organization killing citizens for no good reason was no big deal and that she could draft the entire intelligence branch and force them to do what she wanted.

If you think that a UN organization can tell a US organization what to do, you've clearly not been paying attention for the last 7 years (mind, I'm not saying this is a good thing).

What's more, Ostrander had a better idea of what happens on missions. Sometimes in Suicide Squad, a third party becomes involved, sometimes it's bad intelligence and sometimes the missions go off perfectly.

In Checkmate, all the missions go off fine minus the predictable betrayals (like Fire killing Computer guy and the Outsiders getting caught).

Dunno what Queen and Country is like but Checkmate? It's a stock hero book in what should be a spy book.

[Ogre U AHole]

I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. To the poster who said it was "too superhero and not enough spy/espionage", it being too spy and espionage oriented was my main deterrent in picking up the book from it's inception. I only came aboard when the rumor came out about Martian Manhunter appearing somewhere down the line. Reading the book, I felt Rucka did a fine job of putting political and espionage spins on superheroes without making me feel completely alienated as a superhero fan primarily.

I hope Rucka gets to write a Great Ten mini-series someday. Pretty interesting characters that feel like his "babies" to some degree; i.e. being introduced in 52 and only ever appearing in Checkmate since.

[The Xenos]

Hate it,It also has a far-right stance which is off-putting

Wow. Did this guy actually call Rucka's Checkmate right wing? HA! From all I've heard, Rucka is pretty liberal. Certainly no Chuck Dixon. Then again, from the comment, I get the felling you're against anything military. Why would you even read this book then?

The only other thing I can think of is that you're mistaking the political stance of characters for the political stance of the writer. A good writer can write characters even if they are of opposite politics. An even better one can do so and not villianize the character. Rucka rather doesn't draw clear moral lines in this book. He respects the reader enough and leaves it up to them.

[The Cool Thatguy]

He respects the reader enough and leaves it up to them.

I gotta disagree with that last line. Rucka was pretty heavy handed with right and wrong in terms of tone, narration and such.

[sabongero]

Wow. Did this guy actually call Rucka's Checkmate right wing? HA! From all I've heard, Rucka is pretty liberal. Certainly no Chuck Dixon. Then again, from the comment, I get the felling you're against anything military. Why would you even read this book then?

The only other thing I can think of is that you're mistaking the political stance of characters for the political stance of the writer. A good writer can write characters even if they are of opposite politics. An even better one can do so and not villianize the character. Rucka rather doesn't draw clear moral lines in this book. He respects the reader enough and leaves it up to them.

I did not know that Rucka was liberal. However, the series under his helm from issues #1 to #25 was certainly right wing.

[carabas]

Could you explain this a bit? Apparently there are several people, including myself, who simply do not see this in the book.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah, seriously. The series was pro-United Nations, and anti-United States to an almost comical degree. None of Checkmate's legitmately depicted activities violated any ethics or human rights (which these days makes it liberal :))

[sabongero]

You know I was just looking back at some of the issues I have and you guys are right. I guess I need to buy the earlier issues of the series.

[Patrion]

I love this book, and the funny thing about the whole shebang is that I hadn't read any books like this one before and from the first time I flipped through an issue I was hooked! I'm pretty sure the first one I read was the issue where the Black Queen is looking for a new Black Queen's Knight, that one-ish story was all it took to get me addicted! The next payday I had was spent looking for back issues and TBPs. I also really liked the "Checkout!" storyline, back when the Outsiders were still cool. It's just the fact that one minute you may think you have a handle on the book and then it throws some crazy, morally gray shizz at you and literally leave you mind-f**ked! Or at least it does me! Anyway, I love it!

[reflecto]

Rucka's Checkmate is a masterpiece.
It went a very long way toward redefining what I look for and what I feel I can expect from a comic.

[carabas]

Rucka's Checkmate is a masterpiece.
It went a very long way toward redefining what I look for and what I feel I can expect from a comic.
I think that if you give Rucka's Queen & Country (from ONI Press) a try you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Checkmate was like a (slightly) dumbed down version of Q&C, with added superheroics.

[Will.S]

How was Bruce Jones's first issue of Checkmate?

Nobody really brought it up yet so that doesn't bode too well for it.

[reflecto]

I think that if you give Rucka's Queen & Country (from ONI Press) a try you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Checkmate was like a (slightly) dumbed down version of Q&C, with added superheroics.
I want to try it and I probably will, but I have to confess that I only got into Checkmate because of Alan Scott, Mr. Terrific, and Fire. I tend to be a big super hero guy, but this book has changed a lot of that for me.
Locke & Key and House of Mystery are also helping with that.
How was Bruce Jones's first issue of Checkmate?

Nobody really brought it up yet so that doesn't bode too well for it.
It's a pretty jarring transition as far as narrative style, but I'm sticking with it. The Global Guardians are coming soon and that's never a bad thing. :smile:

[kello]

I only read Checkmate in chunks, first issues 1-7, then the Checkout arc, and I just read issues16-20 over the last few days, and I think the book is much better when it's collected and read in one sitting. I could see how the book may seem bland if read as a monthly.

Having that said, I love it! I think Rucka is made for this book (which is why everyone knew it would sink when he left), and the art by Joe Bennet especially kicked butt. The characters are diverse enough to give the book some depth, the action is sprinkled in enough to balance the political aspects, and Mr. Terrific appears on a regular basis. Oh yeah, the inclusion of the Suicide Squad was pretty sweet too.

The only thing I didn't buy was the "checkout" arc, mostly because Judd Winick was involved. The whole thing seemed forced by DC to sell two books that people didn't care about. The relationship between Mr. Terrific and Sasha Bordeuax seemed a little out of character too, but I think it's time his character changed a little bit. You can't be a downtrodden athiest genius all the time, right?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I only read Checkmate in chunks, first issues 1-7, then the Checkout arc, and I just read issues16-20 over the last few days, and I think the book is much better when it's collected and read in one sitting. I could see how the book may seem bland if read as a monthly.

Having that said, I love it! I think Rucka is made for this book (which is why everyone knew it would sink when he left), and the art by Joe Bennet especially kicked butt. The characters are diverse enough to give the book some depth, the action is sprinkled in enough to balance the political aspects, and Mr. Terrific appears on a regular basis. Oh yeah, the inclusion of the Suicide Squad was pretty sweet too.

The only thing I didn't buy was the "checkout" arc, mostly because Judd Winick was involved. The whole thing seemed forced by DC to sell two books that people didn't care about. The relationship between Mr. Terrific and Sasha Bordeuax seemed a little out of character too, but I think it's time his character changed a little bit. You can't be a downtrodden athiest genius all the time, right?

I dunno, I think the Outsiders crossover made perfect sense. The Outsiders (in theory) are international trouble shooters. Checkmate is international law enforcement.

Though, yeah, the execution was botched all to hell.

[princesa]

I think that if you give Rucka's Queen & Country (from ONI Press) a try you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Checkmate was like a (slightly) dumbed down version of Q&C, with added superheroics.


I'll have to look that one up as well.

[StumboTheGiant]

Loved the series have them all

[Ghost Shark]

I have greatly enjoyed this series so far, but with Bruce Jones coming on, I foresee me dropping this one shortly. Jones has yet to write anything I enjoy, and I usually avoid any comic with his name on it.

[atomicturtle]

I really really love Checkmate. I love that whole side of the DCU, and I really dig which characters they picked to be the main focus of the story. Sasha, Fire (a whole new take on 'ol Beatriz!), Mr. Terrific. All very underwritten characters.

The ones with Waller were particularly awesome. Amanda Waller is much scarier in international espionage, than she is running the suicide squad.

Also, I loved that this title gave us more opportunities to see the Great Ten. I would LOVE to get a 6, 8, or 12-shot about them. There's a lot of potential with those guys.

[rogerio]

How was Bruce Jones's first issue of Checkmate?

Nobody really brought it up yet so that doesn't bode too well for it.

I hated.
dropped after #26...:frown:

[brundlefly]

I hated.
dropped after #26...:frown:

Seconded. I gave his first issue a chance, but it was not at all to my liking. More of his monster/horror stuff, predictably, except wedged into the Checkmate setting this time. Pass.

[sabongero]

I am really going to miss Sasha's character here. Along with Mr. Terrific, and the cool menacing White Queen, Amanda Waller. I hope Greg Rucka writes another series in the DC Universe.

I loved his run in Detective Comics, Wonder Woman, Adventures of Superman, and here in Checkmate. I'd like to see him write Justice League of America if he can. But one can only hope.

[miss_terry]

I just read Volume one of this in TPB form. All I can say was WOW!!! I didn't even know this series existed until I came across it in Borders bookstore and was just browsing. I hope it gets better een after Mr. Rucka left the series. I look forward to reading volume two of Mr. Rucka's work here.

[brundlefly]

I hope it gets better een after Mr. Rucka left the series.

No such luck there. :frown:


I look forward to reading volume two of Mr. Rucka's work here.

Hope you enjoy the other collected volumes of Rucka's Checkmate run, as they're excellent, imo.

[sabongero]

Greg Rucka's back writing a series...Detective Comics. I hope he writes a maxi series on Checkmate sometime in the future.