What ever happened to Waverider, the linear man?

[Augusto]

Mainly a Superman's supporting character, it seems to me than without Dan Jurgens, Waveryder it's gone....:confused: :confused:

Anybody know something else?

[Pinnacle]

I think he's dead. In 52, it was implied that Skeets (Mr. Mind) killed him.

[Ungenesis]

While we're at it, what happened to the rest of the linear men?

[Jack Zodiac]

They're still doin' their thing. A new Linear Man pops up in The Atom to keep him from funking up time.

[Ungenesis]

Is the cyborg/hypertime guardian Rip Hunter still with them or has he been officially wiped and replaced with the Time Master Rip?

[Flamebird]

Is the cyborg/hypertime guardian Rip Hunter still with them or has he been officially wiped and replaced with the Time Master Rip?

Multiverse: they can both be around; heck there could be dozens of em.

They just seem to be focusing on the "time master" version right now.

[stingerman]

I think he's dead. In 52, it was implied that Skeets (Mr. Mind) killed him.

know what issue? Did they show him die? I loved the wave rider back in the day. Was it the Monarch Annual crossover he was in??

[4thHorseman]

know what issue? Did they show him die? I loved the wave rider back in the day. Was it the Monarch Annual crossover he was in??

It was around issue 27 I think. Possibly 28 or 29. And I don't know if it was shown him technically DYING, as much as it showed him being brutally tortured.

and you are thinking of the Armageddon crossover

[Choppa]

Did infinite crisis affect the linear men or are they are on the "outside" of time watching the events? I believe that's what happened in Zero HOur no?

[Paul Newell]

Did infinite crisis affect the linear men or are they are on the "outside" of time watching the events? I believe that's what happened in Zero HOur no?
I think all of them, apart from Waverider, were dead by the time Infinite Crisis came around.

[Choppa]

Huh? Isn't Rip Hunter in 52? Or was he not a linear man?

[Super Buddies Forever]

I think the Rip Hunter with the Linear Men was the Pre-Crisis version, an anomaly displaced after the events of the Crisis, while the one in Booster Gold is the Post-Crisis version.

I could be wrong about that though.

[lonewolf23k]

It could be they're both the same Rip Hunter, but at different periods of his existance...

Time Travellers can be like that.

[Buried Alien]

I thought all Linear Men were eliminated as a consequence of their actions in OUR WORLD AT WAR. If they were around just before INFINITE CRISIS, it's hard to imagine them not having a cow when Superboy Prime began punching the crystal wall...or when Kal-L completely shattered it.

I imagine that the "Crisis Four" escaping from their paradise dimension to re-enter the DCU would have been among the Linear Men's top fears.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Choppa]

^So wouldn't that mean that the Crisis Four were outside of wherever the Linear Men reside?

And if that's true then that would result in so many implications that it's crazy

[Buried Alien]

During the era of ZERO HOUR, the Linear Men were among the few entities in the DCU who had access to information about the old Multiverse and what *really* happened during the First Crisis, but even then, it wasn't something that all of them casually knew (Rip Hunter did, but Waverider didn't). Waverider had to look it up at Vanishing Point (and was rather shocked when he learned the truth). I can't help imagining that when Waverider read up on the First Crisis, he didn't find out about the four who survived in their own separate dimension. Incursions by any of these four should have been among the big signs of trouble the Linear Men would have been looking for.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[PatrickG]

Keep in mind, the four were presumed dead before the timewave hit by Harbinger in her log at the end of CRISIS #12. Nobody knew they lived.

[Super Buddies Forever]

I always loved the concept of the Linear Men and thought it had great potential. I'm glad that the idea of timestream hopping continuity cops has been brought back, in some form, with the Booster Gold series.

Here's hoping we see the Linear Men again in Booster Gold 0, the Zero Hour crossover that's coming up (even though I hate to gripe that the zero issues were for Zero Month, which came AFTER Zero Hour).

[JoshuaB]

In one of the History of the DC Universe backups in Countdown, didn't one of the Monitors say that Waverider had been "apparently" killed by Skeets?

[Sean Walsh]

In one of the History of the DC Universe backups in Countdown, didn't one of the Monitors say that Waverider had been "apparently" killed by Skeets?

They did say "apparently." Pretty good clue there that Waverider's story is not done yet.

Either that or Jurgens couldn't bear to let go of another of his creations... :p

[Choppa]

I can't help imagining that when Waverider read up on the First Crisis, he didn't find out about the four who survived in their own separate dimension. Incursions by any of these four should have been among the big signs of trouble the Linear Men would have been looking for.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Because it's a retcon and you know that. In the same story someone in the future remarks that Hal Jordan becomes unpure and corrupted during our time period and still is in theirs. Well obviously that won't happen since he's back to being GL in the present and the whole Parallex thing has also been retconned.

[Super Buddies Forever]

Well, remember that a good majority of the future was erased in Zero Hour. That scene took place just as the last vestiges of the Post-Crisis, Pre-Zero Hour future were being wiped away.

Had Hal as Parallax not destroyed the timestream, later events would have transpired differently and Rebirth may never have come to pass.

(where's my No Prize?)

[Choppa]

^What? Whether or not he succeeded in destroying the time stream, he still became Parallex before the resetting of time at the end of ZH so I don't see how things could have transpired any differently. It's not like if he hadn't destroyed the time stream that Parallex suddenly wouldn't be the living embodiment of fear as opposed to just an identity that Hal assumed.

[Super Buddies Forever]

Yes, but ZH totally altered several future events, including the Legion of Superheroes. Who's to say that in the original, unaltered Post-Crisis timeline, Hal Jordan may not have ever been freed from Parallax? Things may have transpired differently if not for the rewriting of time, Hypertime, and Prime punches, and Jordan would have stayed dead with his image permanently tarnished. So yeah, that statement about Jordan's final fate could have been true at the time.

Ah, the joys of DC continuity. Pass me the Advil.

[sudoku]

http://www.adamarnold.net/linearmen/

Here's a great site about the history of the Linear Men (including Rip Hunter and Waverider) and a detailed look at their final appearance in Superman the Man of Steel 118 (Nov 2001).

The implication (as I read it) is that the Quintessence (Zeus, Highfather, Ganthet, Shazam, and Phantom Stranger) "fired" the Linear Men after they were driven insane by Brainiac 13 in Our Worlds at War. They told them that policing the time stream was no longer necessary, and they told them to "get on with their lives." Then, the Linear Men disappeared in a cosmic whirlwind. Liri Lee (the only one who wasn't driven insane by Brainiac 13) went on to become the nanny for Lex Luthor's daughter, in a plot thread that was almost immediately dropped. Waverider wasn't seen again until 52.

There is some pretty convincing speculation the the Linear Man Hunter is the Pre-Crisis Rip Hunter (or at least from another timeline), rather than the same Rip Hunter from 52.

[Choppa]

Yes, but ZH totally altered several future events, including the Legion of Superheroes. Who's to say that in the original, unaltered Post-Crisis timeline, Hal Jordan may not have ever been freed from Parallax? Things may have transpired differently if not for the rewriting of time, Hypertime, and Prime punches, and Jordan would have stayed dead with his image permanently tarnished. So yeah, that statement about Jordan's final fate could have been true at the time.

Ah, the joys of DC continuity. Pass me the Advil.

I still don't see how changing the future effects the past. Before ZH did anything to the timestream Hal became Parallex. I'm ignoring the recent retcon that makes Parallex a yellow bug, so the final straw was teh destruction of Coast City and that would have to change in order for Hal to not become Parallex, although something else could have caused it as well.

[Augusto]

Well, remember that a good majority of the future was erased in Zero Hour. That scene took place just as the last vestiges of the Post-Crisis, Pre-Zero Hour future were being wiped away.

Had Hal as Parallax not destroyed the timestream, later events would have transpired differently and Rebirth may never have come to pass.

(where's my No Prize?)

LOL. That's a brilliant deduction. It made me laugh but it's very logic. After Zero Hour, Linear Men couldn't foreseen future never again. Future is what happens in the next minute. :wink:

[Kid Kyoto]

Because it's a retcon and you know that. In the same story someone in the future remarks that Hal Jordan becomes unpure and corrupted during our time period and still is in theirs. Well obviously that won't happen since he's back to being GL in the present and the whole Parallex thing has also been retconned.

We all know Hal is just lulling people's suspicions before he turns on them agian.

"LOL they actually bought the whole yellow cricket of fear story! Darkseid owes me a beer!"

[titanfan]

I think he's dead. In 52, it was implied that Skeets (Mr. Mind) killed him.

He is dead, but also a time traveler. In case anyone wanted to use him, they still could.

[PatrickG]

He is dead, but also a time traveler. In case anyone wanted to use him, they still could.

There have also been at least two Waveriders who have died, between them, seven or eight times.

Including several times in DC1M and once or twice in OWAW.

The understanding I have is that because the Linear Men see the future, they're constantly adjusting to their own future.

Which is why they can die multiple times. Whenever you kill them, their past self "branches off" and avoids that death, creating a new personal timeline.

So whereas a time traveller like Barry Allen can and does appear pre-death, the Linear Men routinely come back from the dead. There are essentially infinite variations of them and any possibility that results in the death of one of them results in a new variation where they're alive.

[Sean Walsh]

I think there was a DC Nation panel at either NYCC or WWLA where someone asked about Waverider, and they didn't flat out say he's dead.

So either (a) they'll go the time traveler route which means we'll see a prior-to-his-death version again, or (b) he's not dead, just............resting? Or wounded. Very very wounded.

[Choppa]

Yes, but ZH totally altered several future events, including the Legion of Superheroes. Who's to say that in the original, unaltered Post-Crisis timeline, Hal Jordan may not have ever been freed from Parallax? Things may have transpired differently if not for the rewriting of time, Hypertime, and Prime punches, and Jordan would have stayed dead with his image permanently tarnished. So yeah, that statement about Jordan's final fate could have been true at the time.

Ah, the joys of DC continuity. Pass me the Advil.

Hhhmmm, reading this again now, I finally understand what you were saying. So yeah, that's a good point.

[Loren]

http://www.adamarnold.net/linearmen/

Here's a great site about the history of the Linear Men (including Rip Hunter and Waverider) and a detailed look at their final appearance in Superman the Man of Steel 118 (Nov 2001).

Pity he doesn't include an image of the Linear Men in that latter book. As a consequence of OWAW, they all turned into giant floating brains. Waverider was a giant floating brain on fire.

Seriously, words don't do this justice:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3048/linearmenbrainsxw6.jpg

With this as their new status quo, I think it's easy to see why they fell into limbo after this.

Such a huge step in the wrong direction after my favorite usage of the Linear Men: when they were the Linear Authority in the short-lived 'Chronos' series.

[Augusto]

With this as their new status quo, I think it's easy to see why they fell into limbo after this.

Such a huge step in the wrong direction after my favorite usage of the Linear Men: when they were the Linear Authority in the short-lived 'Chronos' series.

Plain Awfulhttp://www.smileyhut.com/thumb/thumbdown.gif (http://www.smileyhut.com).

http://www.yelims.com/IPB/Invision-Board-France-234.gif

[Erebus]

While we're at it, what happened to the rest of the linear men?

And while we're at that, what happened to Dan Hunter, Rip Hunter's 18th century brother?

[Kara Zor El]

Waveriders death was a great moment in Infinate Crisis. Where Skeets asks Waverider, where he thinks he got his gold skin from as he crowds him menacingly. That had a few of us thinking Skeets was Alexander Luthor at that point.

[Choppa]

Waveriders death was a great moment in Infinate Crisis. Where Skeets asks Waverider, where he thinks he got his gold skin from as he crowds him menacingly. That had a few of us thinking Skeets was Alexander Luthor at that point.

What? I don't remember any of that happening in IC.

[Augusto]

Waveriders death was a great moment in Infinate Crisis. Where Skeets asks Waverider, where he thinks he got his gold skin from as he crowds him menacingly. That had a few of us thinking Skeets was Alexander Luthor at that point.

What? I don't remember any of that happening in IC.

It happened in "52".

http://www.yelims.com/IPB/Invision-Board-France-234.gif