Gay Guys On The Make! [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Gail Simone

08-14-2007, 10:07 PM

I was having a nap (most of you might know I work mainly at night), and I woke up, as I often do, with an idea in my head that will not go away. One day, it was a plot for a Spider-man mini, another, the whole WAITING thing for Atom, blah blah etc. etc.

This nap, I had a dream I was writing a new romance comic for DC called GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE.

I swear, that title just slays me. Then it got me thinking, why CAN'T a major publisher publish a gay romance comic? Not a Vertigo-y thing, not an adults only title, but a comic aimed at the regular teen and above comics market?

Get some decent writers and artists and put out a great romance book for LGBT readers, of which there are zillions, with some honesty and fun, man, that would be a great idea and I bet it would sell forever.

AND IT MUST BE TITLED, "GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE!"

In the dream, I was looking over art by Eric Shanower for a story I'd written.

Now THAT would be cool!

GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE!

:)

Why isn't the world perfect, while I'm at it?

Gail

Reverend Smooth

08-14-2007, 10:10 PM

Sign me up. ^^

ElvisGuy

08-14-2007, 10:11 PM

That idea ROCKS !!!

Tommy

08-14-2007, 10:13 PM

I would chop off my hand for this title. After reading a bunch of crappy Manga gay romance comics I would kill for a title that in some way was relevant to my life.

ElvisGuy

08-14-2007, 10:18 PM

I would chop off my hand for this title. After reading a bunch of crappy Manga gay romance comics I would kill for a title that in some way was relevant to my life.

I know..it would be nice to see a gay comic or film that is not saturated with sex..not every gay man's life is like a episode of "Queer as Folk"..we all don't do drugs and have sex with every guy we see.

Pink Bat Max

08-14-2007, 10:18 PM

Hey, I wanna see a return of romance comics period.

But what I'd REALLY like is just a plain romance comic instead of a 'gay' comic...... but there would be GLBT stories IN there along with the straight ones. Not made a big deal of, just.... there.

But that's the political-me. The teenage-me giggles like mad at the title.

Sabrinaset

08-14-2007, 10:19 PM

Has Gail become a traitor to the Lebian Cause?!?

beetlebum

08-14-2007, 10:20 PM

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I personally don't think about homosexuality that much, and I kind of don't care. if that is someone's life style choice I am fine with it, just as long as they pay their taxes and don't start rows with me over stupid things.

But I think if you exert enough pressure on DC they probably would. They've already made several of there characters gay, Renee Montoya, Kathy Kane, Creote. But if they don't that would be an example of editorial cowardice and DC caving into the religious right, which is not surprising DC shows a lot of editorial cowardice towards their characters. Look at Wonder Woman. Phil Jimenez wanted to take her in one direction, probably acknowledging the Sapphic aspects of her myth and they said no.It's all about the mammon.

Also I think a better title for your comic would be Holy crow! That Boy is Fancy!

Gail Simone

08-14-2007, 10:31 PM

HA!

That 'fancy' thing was a bit of concern for some at DC, if I remember correctly, and I was so positive that it wasn't going to be a problem because, GODDAMMIT , most gay people gots a SENSE OF HUMOR!

In a way, I wish some of the women who are doing such good work holding the industry's feet to the fire for their portrayals of females would take a lesson from the gay comics readers, who seem to make the same case for gay characters, but do it in such an hilarious, mocking style that the point is made without the focus shifting to the writers themselves.

I mean, not everyone has to approach their legitimate grievances this way, but I think there's a lot of power in mockery with wit, you know? And of course, it's so easy to portray all feminists as joyless and humorless already, even though it's a crock of shit.

(I should say a lot of women DO use this approach and god bless them, they're my favorites).

Gail

Gail Simone

08-14-2007, 10:32 PM

Oh, and I meant to say, I have never been to a con since that issue came out that some readers didn't address themselves to me as 'fancy.'

Which, goddammit, makes me so happy I can't stand it.

Gail

Gail Simone

08-14-2007, 10:33 PM

I know..it would be nice to see a gay comic or film that is not saturated with sex..not every gay man's life is like a episode of "Queer as Folk"..we all don't do drugs and have sex with every guy we see.

Yeah, bingo, exactly. Even some of the best-intentioned stuff out there seems to want to portray all gay guys as the same, which is just, ugh. It offends me as a person AND as a writer!

Gail

Pink Bat Max

08-14-2007, 10:34 PM

I think there's a lot of power in mockery with wit

When the Drag Queens revolt and form their own nation, I'm pretty sure that's going to be the first line of their national anthem.

Pink Bat Max

08-14-2007, 10:37 PM

Oh, and I meant to say, I have never been to a con since that issue came out that some readers didn't address themselves to me as 'fancy.'

Which, goddammit, makes me so happy I can't stand it.

Gail

(Could someone fill me in on the reference here?)

CandyCane

08-14-2007, 10:39 PM

I think it be a great idea All my friends are gay guys and they call me their fag hag lol,

ElvisGuy

08-14-2007, 10:42 PM

HA!

That 'fancy' thing was a bit of concern for some at DC, if I remember correctly, and I was so positive that it wasn't going to be a problem because, GODDAMMIT , most gay people gots a SENSE OF HUMOR!

For me as a gay man I never would made it this far without my sense of humor..I was told by Carrie Fisher that it is the greatest weapon I can have in life.

Gail Simone

08-14-2007, 10:43 PM

I think it be a great idea All my friends are gay guys and they call me their fag hag lol,

CANDYCANE ON THE MAKE!

:)

Welcome to Yabs, hope you stick around!

Gail

Gail Simone

08-14-2007, 10:46 PM

(Could someone fill me in on the reference here?)

Lady Blackhawk, who is very sweet but a little naive, fell hard for Creote, who is not only gay but completely in love with a man called Savant. Zinda has no gaydar, and flirted mightily with the very uncomfortable Creote, until Canary and Huntress finally told her the truth.

Her response was,

"Holy CROW! The boy is FANCY?"

:)

Quite possibly my favorite bop moment of the entire run.

Gail

Pink Bat Max

08-14-2007, 10:49 PM

"Holy CROW! The boy is FANCY?"

Tee hee!

A little more love for Zinda has just crept into my heart. I'm going to find a way to say that in my daily life, now. Often.

Chris Hansbrough

08-14-2007, 11:19 PM

I'm not sure.....depending on which half is in controll.....I'd probably bi it

the4thpip

08-15-2007, 12:12 AM

Tom Beland dealt with anal penetration in the latest, wonderful issue of "True Story, Swear to God." :D

Spike-X

08-15-2007, 01:42 AM

why CAN'T a major publisher publish a gay romance comic? Not a Vertigo-y thing, not an adults only title, but a comic aimed at the regular teen and above comics market?

Becuase are children wil read it and turn gay OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

mcolford

08-15-2007, 04:51 AM

GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE!

If anyone can do it, Gail, you can. And I would be lined up at the store waiting for it. Especially with Shanower's gorgeous art!

Michael C.
http://www.justgiblets.com

Shisho

08-15-2007, 05:04 AM

Okay, seriously Gail. Could you please do that? I'd read the hell out of that.

witchboy

08-15-2007, 05:09 AM

I'd totally buy it , being fancy myself .
I recommend folks check out the work of Tim Fish found in graphic novel format , he 's already doing pretty much what you describe , gay romance comics with a kind of Archie comics sensibility . Recommended works :Calvacade of Boys , Young Bottoms in Love , Strugglers ( a prequel to some of the characters in CoB , not quite as gay as the others )

KevinTBrown

08-15-2007, 05:10 AM

There has GOT to be a way to get that snuck into Welcome to Tranquilty in some way....

Charles RB

08-15-2007, 06:19 AM

The first time I heard the phrase "make" in a "on-the-make" type way, it was in 2000AD's Sinister Dexter and was slang for gangster/hitman activity.

The romance between gay hitmen? Awesome.

the4thpip

08-15-2007, 06:25 AM

The most succesful "home grown" comic books in Germany are Ralf König's gay comics. Some of them have even been turned into hit movies.

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y02AZERGL._SS400_.jpg

Tommy

08-15-2007, 06:26 AM

I know..it would be nice to see a gay comic or film that is not saturated with sex..not every gay man's life is like a episode of "Queer as Folk"..we all don't do drugs and have sex with every guy we see.

I find it odd how there are only two types of gay men on the planet. The supportive slightly effeminate best friend, and the slutty bitchy guy. I know this since the media tells me it is so. After all gay men in the mainstream media almost exclusively are the former, while gay men in what passes for gay movies are almost exclusively the latter.

Cam63

08-15-2007, 06:54 AM

Cayman

08-15-2007, 06:55 AM

Gay Guys And Josh On The Make

Tommy

08-15-2007, 06:59 AM

Not to mention corrupting others to your evil, EEEEVILLLLL !! ways.

Our 2007 recruitment drive has surpassed all our expectations. The Tome of Satan is almost running out of pages and we had to go looking for extra Christian babies since we were running so low on ink.

Cam63

08-15-2007, 06:59 AM

Becuase are children wil read it and turn gay OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

I've aways been puzzled why gays are constantly compared to sexual predators/pedophiles.

ElvisGuy

08-15-2007, 12:02 PM

Not to mention corrupting others to your evil, EEEEVILLLLL !! ways.

Y'know I still haven't recieved my free toaster oven for my last conversion ! It strictly says in the gay handbook you get a free toaster oven when you convert someone to gaydom !

Dr Ray Palmer

08-15-2007, 12:35 PM

Lady Blackhawk, who is very sweet but a little naive, fell hard for Creote, who is not only gay but completely in love with a man called Savant. Zinda has no gaydar, and flirted mightily with the very uncomfortable Creote, until Canary and Huntress finally told her the truth.

Creote: "I ... do not wish to see these things." HA!

I still want a The Amazing Adventures of Lady Blackhawk & Creote mini, dammit!

shrike

08-15-2007, 12:51 PM

Creote: "I ... do not wish to see these things." HA!

I still want a The Amazing Adventures of Lady Blackhawk & Creote mini, dammit!

I would buy this.

Lester C.

08-15-2007, 02:44 PM

I would buy this book if it stared Creote and Savant. There I admitted my boy is fancy. Happy?

Pink Bat Max

08-15-2007, 02:46 PM

I want to see Transsexuals In Revolt: the War Comics answer to Gay Guys on the Make.

I love reading about gay and lesbian characters and such, but they're always either gendernormative or a joke. There's also the 'T' in 'GLBT', but really.... what transgendered characters are there that aren't portrayed as an absurdity?

For all the progress with gay and lesbian characters in comics... and to some extent, with bisexuals.... portrayals of transpeople are still in the dark ages.

Cayman

08-15-2007, 02:47 PM

Which artists draw the most attractive male characters? I nominate Steve Sadowsky and Pablo Raimondi.

Dark Galaxy

08-15-2007, 02:53 PM

A little more love for Zinda has just crept into my heart.

How can you not love Zinda? She's the bee's knees!

Pink Bat Max

08-15-2007, 03:03 PM

(I'm sorry. I don't mean to push my politics. =p )

Sally Sensational

08-15-2007, 03:17 PM

Y'know I still haven't recieved my free toaster oven for my last conversion ! It strictly says in the gay handbook you get a free toaster oven when you convert someone to gaydom !

Hey! That reminds me! I never got all those toasters I was promised, either. Of course, I was the one converted, so maybe it should be Sk that gets the toasters.

Personally, my vote would be for the romance comic that includes, but is not exclusive to, gay relationships. Love is love.

Cayman

08-15-2007, 03:19 PM

Who toasts anymore? They should give out iPhones instead.

Super J.

08-15-2007, 03:29 PM

For all the progress with gay and lesbian characters in comics... and to some extent, with bisexuals.... portrayals of transpeople are still in the dark ages.

I can't think of any bisexual characters in comics at the moment. Any help?

Cayman

08-15-2007, 03:33 PM

I can't think of any bisexual characters in comics at the moment. Any help?

Grace and Knockout come to mind.

Cayman

08-15-2007, 03:34 PM

Oh, and I forgot my beloved Karma from New Mutants who also identifies as bi. I think Bling! from the X-books is also supposed to be bi but I don't recall anything in the book itself suggesting she's attracted to males.

Also PAD revealed that Rictor from X-Factor identifies himself as bi recently.

heystacy

08-15-2007, 04:03 PM

This thread needs a theme song. I mean a good dance 'till you're tired theme song. :cool:

Super J.

08-15-2007, 05:03 PM

Grace and Knockout come to mind.

Oh, and I forgot my beloved Karma from New Mutants who also identifies as bi. I think Bling! from the X-books is also supposed to be bi but I don't recall anything in the book itself suggesting she's attracted to males.

Also PAD revealed that Rictor from X-Factor identifies himself as bi recently.

Oh ok. Thanls. :D

Michael P

08-15-2007, 05:06 PM

Pft. Grace and Thunder are the most egregious example of a writer "minoring in bisexual" I've seen in the media for a good long while.

BnL

08-15-2007, 05:19 PM

Isn't Ice bi too?

Pink Bat Max

08-15-2007, 05:22 PM

Isn't Ice bi too?

**gasps**

How dare you? Her thing with Fire is platonic. PLATONIC..... how could anyone read 'lovers' into their relationship?

**laughs madly**

Solaris

08-15-2007, 05:30 PM

I'd buy it in a heartbeat... but Gail, you just GOTTA make one of the characters look like bert---complete with his "My Pet Monster" doll. :D

Citizen V

08-15-2007, 05:54 PM

This nap, I had a dream I was writing a new romance comic for DC called GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE.

AND IT MUST BE TITLED, "GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE!"

In the dream, I was looking over art by Eric Shanower for a story I'd written.

Now THAT would be cool!

GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE!

:)

Why isn't the world perfect, while I'm at it?

Gail

I can imagine this new found success has slowly started to go to your head.Mz.Simone...why would people want to buy a comic about gays?When 90% of comic readers are straight men?

bert

08-15-2007, 06:04 PM

bert

08-15-2007, 06:05 PM

I'd buy it in a heartbeat... but Gail, you just GOTTA make one of the characters look like bert---complete with his "My Pet Monster" doll. :D

hehe!

HUGS to Chris!

(and no one knows what you mean about Vlas. .he only goes w/ me to Dragoncon)

are you going to make it to Dragon*con? I know Rin will be there, but how about the rest of the clan?

Charles RB

08-15-2007, 06:08 PM

why would people want to buy a comic about gays?

Someone's buying all that yaoi and getting Devlin Waugh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devlin_Waugh) brought back for new adventures in 2000AD.

ElvisGuy

08-15-2007, 06:15 PM

I can imagine this new found success has slowly started to go to your head.Mz.Simone...why would people want to buy a comic about gays?When 90% of comic readers are straight men?

There are ALOT more than 10% who are gay and buy comics...ALOT more.

Solaris

08-15-2007, 06:19 PM

I can imagine this new found success has slowly started to go to your head.Mz.Simone...why would people want to buy a comic about gays?When 90% of comic readers are straight men?

90% are straight men... 10% are gay men... so where does that leave (ahem) us females?

*looks down in shock*

"OMG---I've grown a DICK!"

I'm neither gay nor male, but I *would* buy such a comic---and enjoy every minute of it.

Solaris

08-15-2007, 06:20 PM

hehe!

HUGS to Chris!

(and no one knows what you mean about Vlas. .he only goes w/ me to Dragoncon)

are you going to make it to Dragon*con? I know Rin will be there, but how about the rest of the clan?

Well, they OUGHT to know---I've posted enough pics from Dcon over the years, with you toting Vlas around! :D

Yep, we're going. Wouldn't miss it. :)

Cam63

08-15-2007, 06:21 PM

Don't forget to read the instruction manual, Sol.

...and good luck with your new appendage.

Solaris

08-15-2007, 07:23 PM

Don't forget to read the instruction manual, Sol.

...and good luck with your new appendage.

Oh CRAP! It was itching and I scratched it... and now it's spitting out this fluid. Maybe it's some weird kind of infection... what the hell do I do????

Novaya Havoc

08-15-2007, 07:31 PM

90% are straight men... 10% are gay men... so where does that leave (ahem) us females?

*looks down in shock*

"OMG---I've grown a DICK!"

I'm neither gay nor male, but I *would* buy such a comic---and enjoy every minute of it.

It's kind of like being a latino on the Census. You're either a white hispanic or a black hispanic. OH THE BIFURCATION.

Please join us in that remaining 10% of comic readers -- as a gay man. Chicks don't read comics -- they like read those romance novels with Fabio on the cover. Or Archie. Chicks dig Archie. And Millie the Model.

*grooaaaan*

Not only that, but the logic that straight men would be diametrically oppose reading a comic with a gay couple, or gay men just FLOODING to it out of some warped "pride" ideology baffles the mind.

Then again, this is Citizen V we're talking about.

Tommy

08-15-2007, 07:34 PM

After all it is not like Brokeback Mountain made $83,043,761 in North America alone.

Solaris

08-15-2007, 07:38 PM

It's kind of like being a latino on the Census. You're either a white hispanic or a black hispanic. OH THE BIFURCATION.

Please join us in that remaining 10% of comic readers -- as a gay man. Chicks don't read comics -- they like read those romance novels with Fabio on the cover. Or Archie. Chicks dig Archie. And Millie the Model.

*grooaaaan*

Not only that, but the logic that straight men would be diametrically oppose reading a comic with a gay couple, or gay men just FLOODING to it out of some warped "pride" ideology baffles the mind.

Then again, this is Citizen V we're talking about.

How the hell can you be a white hispanic or a black hispanic???? Aren't you just "hispanic"??? Weird. The only way mixed race figures in (I would guess) would be in some racially-specific or racially-strong diseases, like sickle cell or Tay-sachs... or how some mediterranean men had anemia reactions to malaria medicines, back in the 50's.

To me, that's the only important part of determining genetic racial influences---when it may lead to you having or passing a disease that's prominent within that heritage.

EDIT: Here's an interesting old tv show bit on that:

It was an episode of Quincy (for the young crowd, Jack Klugman played a coroner). There was this politician who's racial heritage was black, but he'd been "passing" as white. He died of sickle cell anemia... and it was important that the doctor find that out, because he had a daughter who had no idea she was at risk for it. That show was the first reference I'd ever seen to "passing"---I had no clue what it was, until then. Anyway, it was kind of a neat show, and one of the earlier ones to tackle the subject of medical concerns like that.

Lester C.

08-15-2007, 07:41 PM

After all it is not like Brokeback Mountain made $83,043,761 in North America alone.

I had a creative writing teacher that fell in love with the movie and short story. I literally had to watch the movie twice while it was playing and write five collegiate papers.

Tommy

08-15-2007, 07:46 PM

I had a creative writing teacher that fell in love with the movie and short story. I literally had to watch the movie twice while it was playing and write five collegiate papers.

The point is that since gays are such a small segment of the population the movie CLEARLY was an enormous failure.

Lester C.

08-15-2007, 07:52 PM

The point is that since gays are such a small segment of the population the movie CLEARLY was an enormous failure.

I for one hated the movie. Not because of the fact that it had gay protagonists, but because I hate sappy romance movies. And the fact that I had to analyze every aspect of the movie and short story, sometimes contrasting the two, made me wonder why I spent 2100 dollars on my creative writing class.

Indigo Al

08-15-2007, 07:55 PM

Gail. just make Tommy happy. Instead of GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE, call it MILO THE MODEL.

Tommy

08-15-2007, 08:02 PM

Gail. just make Tommy happy. Instead of GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE, call it MILO THE MODEL.

I'd buy ten copies of each issue. God help me if there were varients.

JPalmer567

08-15-2007, 08:37 PM

Ohmygod! The first issue can have a fuschia foil variant cover!

Seriously though...Gail, this is a wonderful idea! Some boys love and yaoi manga are good, but many of the writers rely on formulaic conventions that, well, don't cross over to appeal to gay men. There was a Vertigo mini series titled Heart Throbs about five years or so ago and there was one gay romance story in it. One would've thought there might've been a couple of LGBT oriented stories in a Vertigo comic.

I'm sure you don't need any help with research or story ideas, but please drop me an email at glajoe@gayleague.com if there's any thing I can do to help you make this dream a reality.

Joe

Tommy

08-15-2007, 08:55 PM

Some boys love and yaoi manga are good, but many of the writers rely on formulaic conventions that, well, don't cross over to appeal to gay men

I read an interview with the editor in charge of Tokyo Pop's Yaoi line, during which she flat out stated the books were not intended for actual gay people.

Dedagda

08-15-2007, 09:12 PM

Here's my lame response...

This morning before I had ever read this thread, I was having a daydream about Gail writing a Young Heroes in love concept ala Torchwood with...well good writing. Then I thought I didn't want Gail caught in the stereotype of a woman writing smart romance so I gave up on the idea.

Now I'm smitten with "Gay Guys on the Make." I have plenty of juicy stories I can provide so long as my name is changed to protect the innocent.

Seriously though - My homosexuality has allowed me to accept my sexuality. It does not make me fast and loose....well there was this one time.

Sabrinaset

08-15-2007, 09:15 PM

I read an interview with the editor in charge of Tokyo Pop's Yaoi line, during which she flat out stated the books were not intended for actual gay people.

Were they intended for fake gay people?

Cayman

08-15-2007, 09:22 PM

I read an interview with the editor in charge of Tokyo Pop's Yaoi line, during which she flat out stated the books were not intended for actual gay people.

Do they burn the palms of actual gay people who try and read them?

Pink Bat Max

08-15-2007, 09:26 PM

Do they burn the palms of actual gay people who try and read them?

No, but they're unlikely to spawn hair hair growth on those palms.

KPhoebe

08-15-2007, 09:27 PM

Tommy

08-15-2007, 09:30 PM

Were they intended for fake gay people?

You know... I really think they were.

a. non

08-15-2007, 09:35 PM

I love reading about gay and lesbian characters and such, but they're always either gendernormative or a joke. There's also the 'T' in 'GLBT', but really.... what transgendered characters are there that aren't portrayed as an absurdity?

Well...there's Wanda from Sandman: A Game of You; Coagula (Kate Godwin) from Doom Patrol. though they both end up dying

Gail, you should go for it.

amboy00

08-15-2007, 09:44 PM

I think Elvis' initial point is right on the money. Sadly I don't see Prism or the like agreeing and its hurting genre.

Dedagda

08-15-2007, 09:48 PM

The common defence of yaoi's often-times ridiculous and offensive representations of gay men is that it's "not *for* gay men, it's for *women*."*

Which makes it totally okay, apparently.

Gail, I'd love to see this book!

*I'm not totally discounting the counter-argument that you can read these stories not as men as all, but as representations of female desire in a relationship where equality is viable. I think that counter-argument can work on a text-by-text level, but it totally ignores the existence of actual gay men.

Its how its written and less about orientation. A good story is one that can find an audience because its funny or relevant or relatable. We're already reading imaginary sci-fi concepts, but the aspects of the characters whether evil or altruistic connect with us.

Dedagda

08-15-2007, 09:52 PM

I think Elvis' initial point is right on the money. Sadly I don't see Prism or the like agreeing and its hurting genre.

Are you posting from your iPhone in the Bedroom? Cause I'm in the living room and I want the leisure of posting from the bedroom from my phone.

Are you reading this weeks comics too while in bed? Cause we might have to break-up over that.

ElvisGuy

08-15-2007, 09:54 PM

Are you posting from your iPhone in the Bedroom? Cause I'm in the living room and I want the leisure of posting from the bedroom from my phone.

Are you reading this weeks comics too while in bed? Cause we might have to break-up over that.

I love you guys !...this post just made my day ! :D

amboy00

08-15-2007, 09:56 PM

I r in ur bed. Readin ur blak kanary!

Dedagda

08-15-2007, 10:00 PM

I love you guys !...this post just made my day ! :D

No seriously...While I'm grabbing new songs off iTunes I check out CBR. I go in the bedroom and I'm all like "look someone's being a jerk over at Bedard's forum." He pulls out his earbuds and says something about "Negation War," then I see him whip out his iPhone. I huff...then I swoon.

We're so matched.

ElvisGuy

08-15-2007, 10:03 PM

No seriously...While I'm grabbing new songs off iTunes I check out CBR. I go in the bedroom and I'm all like "look someone's being a jerk over at Bedard's forum." He pulls out his earbuds and says something about "Negation War," then I see him whip out his iPhone. I huff...then I swoon.

We're so matched.

Thats why Ive dubbed you two the Brad and Angelina of the comic community..I miss you guys..Is is time for CAPE yet?

Dedagda

08-15-2007, 10:08 PM

Thats why Ive dubbed you two the Brad and Angelina of the comic community..I miss you guys..Is is time for CAPE yet?

I've got some great stories about the people I met. (Jill Thompson hates me.)

But you totally made SDCC. We're planning a trip to LA to see a dear friend sometime this fall...we must see you.

ElvisGuy

08-15-2007, 10:14 PM

I've got some great stories about the people I met. (Jill Thompson hates me.)

But you totally made SDCC. We're planning a trip to LA to see a dear friend sometime this fall...we must see you.

I live 5 minutes from Matty ...you better see me ! You guys almost got a call from a very confused Elvis during my Vegas trip from Hell last week ..but I decided I didn't want to bother you with my dumb gay drama.

Dedagda

08-15-2007, 10:20 PM

I live 5 minutes from Matty ...you better see me ! You guys almost got a call from a very confused Elvis during my Vegas trip from Hell last week ..but I decided I didn't want to bother you with my dumb gay drama.

Drama!!! OMG! "Gay guys on the drama" We're totally concepting this for Didio. swear.

ElvisGuy

08-15-2007, 10:23 PM

Drama!!! OMG! "Gay guys on the drama" We're totally concepting this for Didio. swear.

Speaking of gay..that pic of Tony on the CAPE site kills me !! I just left a hilarious post on his forum about it.

And the Vegas thing was SOOO drama !

KPhoebe

08-15-2007, 10:36 PM

Its how its written and less about orientation. A good story is one that can find an audience because its funny or relevant or relatable. We're already reading imaginary sci-fi concepts, but the aspects of the characters whether evil or altruistic connect with us.

Uh, yes, I agree, but I'm not sure what that observation has to do with my post?

Pink Bat Max

08-15-2007, 10:41 PM

Well...there's Wanda from Sandman: A Game of You; Coagula (Kate Godwin) from Doom Patrol. though they both end up dying

Gail, you should go for it.

An, Coagula must have been under Rachael Pollack's run. She's 'one of us', as it were, it doesn't surprise me. I wish they'd collect her run.

Well, cool. This cheers me up.

Dedagda

08-15-2007, 10:54 PM

Uh, yes, I agree, but I'm not sure what that observation has to do with my post?

I wasn't posting as a critique of your comment. You were discussing the relevance of orientation to story and equality. I was trying to point out that good stories and be universal. sorry.

singoalla

08-16-2007, 12:42 AM

90% are straight men... 10% are gay men... so where does that leave (ahem) us females?

*looks down in shock*

"OMG---I've grown a DICK!"

I'm neither gay nor male, but I *would* buy such a comic---and enjoy every minute of it.

sooo... if I read enough comics, I too will grow a penis?

~shifty eyes~

I gotta start reading more comics!

eta: I would buy this. For the good writing of course. :D

Hybrid2

08-16-2007, 01:39 AM

I love the comic strip Punch an'Pie
http://www.punchanpie.net/cgi-bin/autokeenlite.cgi

and Striptease
http://www.stripteasecomic.com/

But i dont think i would read them if the gay couples where guys.

That's just me.

KPhoebe

08-16-2007, 02:11 AM

I wasn't posting as a critique of your comment. You were discussing the relevance of orientation to story and equality. I was trying to point out that good stories and be universal. sorry.

Ah, I getcha. I would agree that good characters are universal, but I'd stress that having lots of straight romances - even if they're great characters you really feel for - and no queer ones in your mainstream comics can be extremely exclusionary. Sort of "Our love stories are universal! If you're not gay!"

Charles RB

08-16-2007, 04:10 AM

I read an interview with the editor in charge of Tokyo Pop's Yaoi line, during which she flat out stated the books were not intended for actual gay people.

Was that the one on CBR for Homosexuality In Comics, where she also flat out stated - and seemed to consider it a plus for yaoi - that none of the characters were anything like real gay men?

That one quite weirded me out. It'd be like Dan Didio saying, right in public and with a big grin on his face, "none of our female characters are intended for girls or meant to be like real females, and that's what's good about them!". Except with penises.

JPalmer567

08-16-2007, 05:56 AM

The common defence of yaoi's often-times ridiculous and offensive representations of gay men is that it's "not *for* gay men, it's for *women*."*

Yes, that's a very good respsonse. I would add that my impression (I haven't researched it) is that many if not the great majority of yaoi writers and artists are women. It's my understanding that there are some Japanese yaoi (it may be called by a different term that I'm unfamiliar with) is created by and intended for gay men, but it's a smaller percentage and few if any of the stories have been published in English. This may be wrong and I admit to not being all that knowledgable on this topic. Please correct me. :)

beetlebum

08-16-2007, 06:51 AM

Y'know I still haven't recieved my free toaster oven for my last conversion ! It strictly says in the gay handbook you get a free toaster oven when you convert someone to gaydom !

If Sabrinaset converts me, give that woman a new car. She's got a herculean chore though. i still like seeing pics of Matt Damon shirtless and Tom Welling coming out of the shower

http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/shirtless4ever/tomwelling.jpg
(oh yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!)

And I like watching the boys at soccer practice (which could explain the squiggly lines all over my paper):D

And regarding the issue of whether or not to make a comic exclusively for gays, media companies spent a record $223.3 million last year advertising to gays. Ad spending in the gay and lesbian press has grown at almost three times the rate of consumer magazines over the past ten years. it obviously means they are a valued market. With an estimated $610 billion in buying power, that's a lucrative market. So why not tap into it?And as long as it is written by Gail, I will read it.
And also, what is the reward you get if you bring a vestal Virgin to sacrifice at a ceremony? I'm hoping it's a Vespa. What a great way to get around town!

Tommy

08-16-2007, 07:13 AM

Was that the one on CBR for Homosexuality In Comics, where she also flat out stated - and seemed to consider it a plus for yaoi - that none of the characters were anything like real gay men?

That one quite weirded me out. It'd be like Dan Didio saying, right in public and with a big grin on his face, "none of our female characters are intended for girls or meant to be like real females, and that's what's good about them!". Except with penises.

Yes, that is the one I'm talking about. Using gay guys to sell to women bothers me. It turns fundamental human nature into a cynical marketing gimmick. And the end result is a painfully bad stereotype since the appeal to women of gay men bares no relationship to the actual gay experience. While it is a step up from no gay characters, it isn't much of one.

Charles RB

08-16-2007, 07:24 AM

And the end result is a painfully bad stereotype since the appeal to women of gay men bares no relationship to the actual gay experience.

Looking at some of it, I'm wondering if it bares any resemblence to men.

Tommy

08-16-2007, 07:45 AM

Looking at some of it, I'm wondering if it bares any resemblence to men.

No. In all that I have read, at least one character is a woman with a penis. Just to pound home that the character is a woman I have seen some Yaoi where the artist just drew a woman and had everyone in the story think it was a women. Attack of the surprise penis.

(I got so used to clearly drawn female characters really being men, that when an actual female character showed up I was mightily confused.)

Charles RB

08-16-2007, 07:47 AM

I have seen some Yaoi where the artist just drew a woman and had everyone in the story think it was a women. Attack of the surprise penis.

Didn't the adam's apple give them a clue?

Tommy

08-16-2007, 07:56 AM

Didn't the adam's apple give them a clue?

If you get out a microscope you can find it.

witchboy

08-16-2007, 11:45 AM

I've seen some pictures of gay Japanese comics targeted to gay men ( as opposed to yaoi) , and the men were all uber butch muscular manly men ,as opposed to the girly girly men in yaoi .
I find the whole yaoi is made for women thing to be kind of offensive . Aren't books written for whoever wants to read them ?

Cayman

08-16-2007, 12:01 PM

I think yaoi's fun.

kadymae

08-16-2007, 03:17 PM

This nap, I had a dream I was writing a new romance comic for DC called GAY GUYS ON THE MAKE.
Gail

Ralph would sell the shit out of that comic.

Just saying is all.

Corrina

08-16-2007, 03:33 PM

The first book I read with a gay lead character was Mercedes Lackey's "Magic's Pawn." (with a great cover by some guy named Larry Dixon...)

Loved it. Vanyel's story is my favorite of all her characters and not just because LOOK! MEN LOVE! but because they were characters and the sexuality was wrapped into their story.

The first book I read that I thought did really well with bisexuality was Lois McMaster Bujold's "Cordelia's Honor." (Sure, Heinlein dealt with this too but I don't think it was, ah, realistic. Interesting and amusing but when a man falls in love with the young female clones of himself, it's just a wee bit too much though, amazingly, Heinlein made it feel wholesome.)

Aral Vorkosigan is a fascinating character and I love how his sexual preferences are woven into his life story. That's the kind of character, gay or straight, that I want to read about, a fully dimensional person who I'm convinced is really out there, somewhere.

But I didn't really like "Brokeback Mountain." Not because of the gay men but because I thought it was really a little too much all the things I tend to avoid in literary fiction. I did read and like the short story though. It has the advantage of being short, to the point, without all those long dull vistas that the director hit me over the head with to emphasize that THEY SYMBOLIZED FREEDOM!

Nicola Scott

08-16-2007, 03:37 PM

I GOD DAMN F*#@ING LOVE THIS IDEA!!

Do DC print ANY romance comics, let alone gay ones? What are the chances of them going for this? Would there have to be a subplot of one of the characters being a part-time superhero to stay in the DCU? How would you feel if it came out through Minx?

And if anyone is going to make it work with a broad audience, it's you Gail. Even the guys on Comic Book Queers know that their main audience is straight 30 something males.

Dr Manolis Dooplove

08-16-2007, 03:42 PM

too many pages to read right now

but it sounds like the concept behind YOUNG BOTTOMS IN LOVE :)

and i agree, marvel needs to do a gay romance comic.

Pink Bat Max

08-16-2007, 03:47 PM

Dedagda

08-16-2007, 03:48 PM

Can we get Scott Kurtz in on this? I'd love a series of back-up "Mini-Mo's" strips ala Mini-Marvels.

ElvisGuy

08-16-2007, 03:56 PM

This could also be a great Elseworlds mini-series :

Catman and Deadshot : Gay Guys On The Make

Gail can write it and Nicola can do the artwork ( the only risque thing that should be allowed in the book is Catman's package.)

Dr Manolis Dooplove

08-16-2007, 04:16 PM

hmmm, am i the only on now thinking of Kid Apollo and Daybreaker in a romance story? of course Daybreaker would have to get waaaay stoned first

Charles RB

08-16-2007, 04:38 PM

Do DC print ANY romance comics

Nope, unless I've missed one. Whole genre seems to be getting ignored by the Big 2. (There was Trouble, but that sucked)

Corrina

08-16-2007, 04:54 PM

Well, there's Black Canary/Green Arrow but that seems to consist of pulling BC out of her own book, taking away her entire cast, and putting her in a book that consists of Green Arrow and keeping his entire cast.

bert

08-16-2007, 05:23 PM

Nope, unless I've missed one. Whole genre seems to be getting ignored by the Big 2. (There was Trouble, but that sucked)

hurm. .

I'd consider both "American Virgin" AND "Our Army @ Love" to be romance books.

bert

08-16-2007, 05:26 PM

An, Coagula must have been under Rachael Pollack's run. She's 'one of us', as it were, it doesn't surprise me. I wish they'd collect her run.

Well, cool. This cheers me up.

goodness, what about "Lord Fanny" from the Invisibles!

how could no one have brought her up yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Fanny_%28comics%29

Charles RB

08-16-2007, 05:52 PM

I'd consider both "American Virgin" AND "Our Army @ Love" to be romance books.

Isn't Our Army a demented satire of something or other rather than a romance title?

Gilda Dent

08-16-2007, 08:10 PM

I can't think of any bisexual characters in comics at the moment. Any help?

Katchoo and Francine in Strangers in Paradise were both bisexual, Katchoo a little closer to the les end of the spectrum and Francine a little closer to the straight end.

Or it could be that Katchoo's basic orientation was lesbian, but she managed to fall in love with a person outside her essential orientation (David) and Francine essentially straight, but in love with someone against her basic orientation (Katchoo).

I love that there was a romance comic about the relationship between two women, but that there's been just the one shows that comics really lagged behind reality.

goodness, what about "Lord Fanny" from the Invisibles!

how could no one have brought her up yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Fanny_%28comics%29

Well, Grant Morrison thinks he's written a transsexual, but she reads more like a transvestite. Technically, since she was raised female, the argument could be made that she isn't even transgender, as she lives as the same gender she was raised as. Not an argument I'd make, but it's an interesting question, especially because we now have a small generation of genetic male transgender children quietly being raised as girls.

The problem with the way comics generally handle trans characters is that it's usually either a joke or the same basic plot of a man involuntarily transformed into a woman, usually through some magical means. This can be handled well, as in Ultimate Clone Saga, but usually it's nothing more than a cheap gimmick.

To add to the list, Lord Tristan from Camelot 3000. One of Arthur's knights, he's reincarnated as a woman, and thus is essentially an FTM (male mind in a female body), and becomes a butch lesbian pretty quickly.

Larry Dixon

08-17-2007, 11:54 AM

Seriously though - My homosexuality has allowed me to accept my sexuality. It does not make me fast and loose....well there was this one time.

Richard,

He and I both understand about that, and we are okay with it. And he prefers to be called "Scott Simone" now.

witchboy

08-17-2007, 12:43 PM

Sasquach in Alpha Flight was reincarnated in a female body for awhile , but somehow got his male body back eventually .

mgs

08-17-2007, 02:51 PM

The point is that since gays are such a small segment of the population the movie CLEARLY was an enormous failure.

the problem there is that you are equating the movie audience to only gays. I know tons of hetero's or otherwise who went to see it as well.

Larry Dixon

08-17-2007, 08:36 PM

Credit where it's due... I don't do all of Mercedes Lackey's covers. The Last Herald Mage books featured covers by a delightful asian-american lady named Jody Lee.

On gay characters, Misty (Mercedes Lackey) has been quoted as saying, concerning the Vanyel books, "I didn't set out to write a Gay character, capital-G. I set out to write a troubled young man, dealing with power, displacement and an unaccepting family, who was also gay. The whole point was, he was a person first."

The Tayledras (Hawkbrothers) society in the Valdemar books is pretty much entirely bisexual, and heterosexuality is just met with a shrug and a "whatever."

Misty was awarded the Lambda Award for Best Gay Male Fantasy, for Magic's Price, the third Vanyel book. (it was also the first book she and I cowrote)

As for gay comics, hey... two words for ya for sure... Joe Phillips! My old roommate! He does VERY successful gay web comics, and has HUGE clients as a gay-media artist... he has even had the back cover of The Advocate. He would be a GREAT choice to work with. And he lives in San Diego.

hangthedj

08-17-2007, 10:28 PM

Pink Bat Max

08-18-2007, 10:57 AM

I think this series needs a character to present the stories, like the Cryptkeeper. That sort of 'Here's the story, now enjoy' kind of character. And I know who to base the template on:

Harvey Fierstein!

I know, I know: not a popular choice. Some people would call him a stereotype. But right now, I'm watching a documentary with him, and someone accused him of being a scene stealer. And he just responds, calmly. "Well.... you get in a fight with a bitch, you gotta fight like a bitch. HA! I didn't steal nothin' that wasn't miiiiiiiiiiiine." How can you not love it?

Call the character the 'Pissy Queen'. It'd be classic!