Do You Read Superhero Comics, And Why? [Archive]

Francis

08-11-2007, 09:54 AM

For the hell of it. Larger than life and really good to curl up with. Plus as a medium it can do things (particularly with kinasthetic characters like Batgirl) that no other can (and has corresponding weaknesses, but I don't just read comcs...) Also because they are one of the few genres at the moment that remain optimistic in general (despite the best efforts of some editors and writers).

Well, that and the gems that are in the medium. (I can get through a TPB in about 20 minutes, meaning that I can wade through the dross to find the good ones).

Oh, and because certain trends towards "realistic" characters leave them as IMNSHO smaller than life (or at least smaller than my life) and superhero characters seldom go that way.

snarkbunny

08-11-2007, 09:57 AM

I read them because I like reading how people use their gifts to improve the world. I like how they can ignore our reality and investigate interesting possibilities.

And I like explosions, lots of explosions.....

Red Berens

08-11-2007, 10:08 AM

I honestly don't remember not reading them. I think I'm a cop because I was reading Superman and Batman was I was 5 years old, and wanting to be like them.

It's so hard to put into words why I like them. They make you want to do great things, even if it's only holding the door open for someone at a store. They remind you to think of others first, and to be kind and honest. Pretty corny, huh?

Aggie

08-11-2007, 10:48 AM

for me, it's part nostalgia, part escapism, part appreciation for an artistic medium...but mostly because i still need to believe that somewhere a place exist where good triumphs over evil and no matter how bad things get, someone will be there to save the day...even if that place only exists in the imagination of others.

bert

08-11-2007, 11:13 AM

don't you know that superhero comics are not cool?

just ask a few posters here at CBR (but thankfully, not that often on this particular board), and they will be glad to tell you that you are an idiot for liking the superhero stuff -- well. . . unless it's high concept Grant Morrison shit, that's hard to follow. . but it's INDIE like!

bah. .

anyways, yeah, I love superhero books.

it's a great escape, I like reading about characters that can do something that I can't.

Kevinroc

08-11-2007, 11:26 AM

If loving the "Hulk smash!" is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Pink Bat Max

08-11-2007, 12:22 PM

A few reasons. I like the whimsey and fantassy to be sure. I like the nastgalgia.... when I was a kid and when I was sick, my parents got me comics.

But also.... well. They're some of the only stories that still deal with people dealing with the question of 'what is the right thing to do?' In this day and age, that question is considered infantile, and beneath a sophisticated adult. It's the age of irony, and sincerity is taboo. BUT in the superhero genre (more frequently in DC than Marvel, I'd argue) that's often the central question. I like that. 'Cause y'know what? 'Doing the right thing' is not something that's only for kids. We adults forget that.

eagle2000

08-11-2007, 12:34 PM

I read them because I spent ages reading cynical anti-heroes (like Judge Dredd), when there was nothing else available.

AaronJ

08-11-2007, 01:25 PM

I read super-hero comics for multiple reasons.

For one, I enjoy the larger than life, colorful fun of super-hero stories. I mean, a guy who dresses up like a bat and fights crime as an urban legend? That's just cool.

Beyond that, I see super-heroes as a kind of modern mythology. A character like Superman or Wonder Woman represents something important, stands for something, and has stories which hopefully enlighten.

More importantly than either of those things for me is seeing the DCU (I read almost no Marvel, and it's getting less and less), as an entity on its own. To me, it's sort of as if all the characters of the DCU are cells, making up the body of the real character, which is the DCU itself.

Also, I like discussing these stories.

Charles RB

08-11-2007, 01:31 PM

Because they're superhuman beings who punch people in the face and blow things up to save the day.

Though two of my current superhero titles are actually supervillain titles (Thunderbolts and MODOK's 11) - superhuman beings who punch people in the face and blow things up but with added amorality and naughtiness.

I spent ages reading cynical anti-heroes (like Judge Dredd)

And I still do! Yay Dredd! :)

Althalus

08-11-2007, 03:35 PM

I like to read some superhero comics, just not many. They're not the majority among the comics I read, not by far.

Some superhero(-y) series I bought/buy and liked:

Franklin Richards
Mary Jane / Spider-man loves Mary Jane
Nextwave
Power Pack (the recent minis)

Harley & Ivy
Justice League Unlimited
Shazam! - The Monster Society of Evil
Superman / Shazam: First Thunder
The Spirit (current series)

Electric Girl
Empowered
G-Man
Gen13 (drawn by Adam Warren)
Hellboy
Heroes Anonymus
Jack Staff
Love and Capes
Meta Docs
Opposite Forces
The Amazing Adventures of the Escapist
Truth, Justin, and the American Way

Most of those are funny and/or cartoony, mixed with other genres, or even all-out parodies. I like my superhero comics that way. It's what appeals to me most about them.

~Althalus

Secret Publicity Stunt

08-11-2007, 03:46 PM

I read them as a helpful reminder that, it is possible for the hero to win sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. And comics make those "sometimes" good enough.

DavidAllred

08-11-2007, 04:15 PM

I think for me comics offer a target for each of us. In the purest sense they represent (or should represent) our highest hopes and ideas as a species. I think that's why the humanization of comic heroes really sucks ballz for me personally. If I wanted to read about regular human beings with regular old struggles, I'd watch Oprah.

I'm an idealist at heart and realist by mind. Comics are my heart reading.

Charles RB

08-11-2007, 04:36 PM

I think that's why the humanization of comic heroes really sucks ballz for me personally.

It's been going on since at least 1961, it's a bit late to complain about it.

Linkara

08-11-2007, 04:54 PM

Superhero comics are really the only thing I read in comics. I believe in the philosophical concept of taking the fight to evil head-on, of being a force for good with knightly virtues of might for right and right for right. ^_^

It's why stuff like the Ultimates or the Authority just doesn't appeal to me.

eagle2000

08-11-2007, 04:54 PM

I don't mind them being human. Its when they become soap opera/melodrama characters that annoys me.

Charles RB

08-11-2007, 04:57 PM

Again, that's been going on since 1961.

Corrina

08-11-2007, 04:58 PM

I don't mind dark themes in superhero comics.

What I miss is the 'hero' part. When the Authority has more moral backbone than the JLA, that's not a good thing. So that's why I read superhero comics. I like to see people be heroes, against all odds.

Joshua Pantalleresco

08-11-2007, 05:33 PM

My parents were going through a very bitter separation and it was hitting me pretty hard. I was eight at the time. My dad thought about what he liked as a kid and thought of comics immediately. The very first two I got was Starman #13 (Stern and Lyle run) and Green Lantern #1 featuring Gerald Jones and MD Bright. Been in love with comics ever since.

As to what's the appeal? I like fantasy worlds and like going into a place where a man can have a wish and a ring can fulfill it. Where men and women overcome seeming impossible odds. At this point they are a personal inspiration to me. But I never forget where it started.

(Consequently, it's why I'm THE biggest green lantern fan you've ever met)

JP

DavidAllred

08-11-2007, 05:50 PM

It's been going on since at least 1961, it's a bit late to complain about it.

There's a massive difference today. Superman Returns was the epitome of the shift.

Charles RB

08-11-2007, 05:55 PM

When the Authority has more moral backbone than the JLA, that's not a good thing.

Well, technically it isn't because the Authority usually take a very "We Are Right! We Know What's Best!" stance on everything and stick to that, and this allows them to do very nasty things. They need LESS backbone.

Linkara

08-11-2007, 06:11 PM

Well, technically it is - the Authority usually take a very "We Are Right! We Know What's Best!" stance on everything and stick to that, and this allows them to do very nasty things.

Sooo, you're saying that since they have a "Might is right" atittude to their crimefighting, it's better than actually being right? :confused:

Charles RB

08-11-2007, 06:25 PM

Worded it craply - edited it.

JohnPopa

08-11-2007, 08:01 PM

I don't read much of the current breed of super hero comics. I don't think my complaints are original though: too much continuity/plot, too many stories being milked for too many issues, too much chatter, not enough imagination and excitement/ideas. Most of it, especially from Marvel, is just plain boring nowadays.

stealthwise

08-11-2007, 08:27 PM

To be honest, because of the talent working in the genre right now (and previously).

I would put up the best superhero stuff against the best sci-fi, fantasy, western, etc, in any medium, any day of the week. If we're talking strictly genre fiction, there's no comparison.

Buzz Dixon

08-11-2007, 10:18 PM

Today? No.

Reason?

Short answer: They suck.

Longer answer: Such a staggeringly disproportionate number of them suck that I've lost interest in the genre in its entirety.

Why do they suck? Because superheroes are absurd, and the only way to make them work is to embrace the absurdity. They never got better than the Mort Weisinger era; even the Marvel Silver Age is proof that embracing the absurdity works.

Look, trying to make a superhero comic "real" is like trying to make a talking funny animal "real." Look what they did to HOWARD THE DUCK when they turned it into a movie.

FRITZ THE CAT works as a comic and as a movie because they embraced the absurdity of talking funny animals acting like neurotic human beings while still maintaining all the requisite talking funny animal tropes.

THE MUPPETS work 'cuz they never pretend they're anything but sewn felt.

BATMAN, the really really good version of BATMAN -- y'know, the one starring Adam West -- worked because it admitted the absurdity of its premise.

Quick -- raise your hands: Who here really thought SUPERMAN RETURNS was better than any episode of THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN selected at random? (I'll grant you it was better than many of the SUPERFRIENDS episodes...)

The closest we've ever come to a "plausible" superhero was JON SABLE, FREELANCE because it was just barely possible to imagine a vigilante-for-hire would wear face camouflage to hide his identity.

Hmmm? What's that? Did somebody mention WATCHMAN and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS? Those are two genuinely excellent books -- and anybody who thinks they depict how superheroes would work in the "real" work instead of the highly stylized and inherently absurd (although played deadly straight) worlds they inhabit is deluding themselves.

I'm not saying superheroes today are bad because they are absurd. I'm saying superheroes are better when they embrace the absurdity. Adam Warren's EMPOWERED, f'r instance; that may be the best superhero story I've read since WATCHMAN and DARK KNIGHT -- no, strike that, it is the best superhero story I've read since then.

You don't have to play it for laughs or even tongue in cheek -- but you do hafta play it light. WATCHMAN and DARK KNIGHT pulled off their particular desired effects by being the exceptions rather than the norm.

You can't play James Bond as THE SPY WHO CAME IN FROM THE COLD. Bond wouldn't last 30 seconds in THE SPY...COLD's universe and turning Bond into The Cold Spy would only make him even more absurd and pointlessly nihilistic.

Which, IMO, sums up the state of far too many superhero comics today.

Quick question: Name a real life team of self-appointed masked avengers.

Answer: The Ku Klux Klan

Now do you see why superheroes need to embrace their absurdity?

mgs

08-11-2007, 10:32 PM

the potential to read fun stories (my prefered entertainment) and the possibility to couple that with some great art (pleasing the artistic side of me). :)

90'sCartoonMan

08-11-2007, 10:35 PM

In the purest sense they represent (or should represent) our highest hopes and ideas as a species.

That's it for me. They constantly put their lives on the line to save people that they never even met just because they have the power to do so and believe it's right. The idea of heroes is just so appealing. They have internal conflicts, but they always try to do the right thing. With superhero comics, everything is larger than life. Even their romances are epic stories.

Plus, super powered action is just cool.

Buzz Dixon

08-11-2007, 11:50 PM

See? Zoe knows what I'm talking about.

Astonishing X-Fan

08-12-2007, 02:40 AM

Charles RB

08-12-2007, 05:28 AM

You honestly think Batman should be more like that BS instead of like, say, BTAS?

Yeah, if it's a straight choice between those two and Batman can only EVER be like that... I'm going with B: TAS. The Batman Beyond part of it for preference.

Personally, I really liked Batman Returns. Awesome stuff.

The Beast Of Yucca Flats

08-12-2007, 05:44 AM

For the action & adventure, mostly (though the sense of honor and, well, heroism a lot of the very best of them have certainly helps).

Plus, there was just this old line on an episode of The Adventures Of Pete & Pete that may help explain it, as well: "What is it that makes a superhero? Is it muscles of steel? The ability to turn yourself into a human butane torch? Or is it something else? Is it a way of looking at the world? A way of making things a little bit stranger... and a little bit better."

beetlebum

08-12-2007, 10:14 AM

I read them, first and foremost for escapism. I just like the writing and I've always had a proclivity towards the paranormal. I used to read comics as a kid. I stopped in jr.high. They just seemed silly and puerile. I became interested in being popular and guys. Then my Senior year of high school came around and I discovered justice league. The irony is the year i was supposed to become an adult, i rediscovered something mainly associated with children.

I like comic books because I can relate to the characters. They seem to be existentions of ourselves, albeit better looking and braver. I can release my emotions vicariously through the characters. When i was a kid, my favourite comic book was X-Men.Even though the politics of being incongruous was beyond me, I, even at a young age, could relate to being diffrent. I also like Peter Parker. Though i may not read Spiderman, I like the fact that he is a geek. I was a cross between him and Veronica Mars in high school. I also like Batman and Huntress. They're dark and twisty, just like me.

These heroes are abrogated revisions of the antecedents before them. The heroes of Greek lore were a selfish lot. But maybe that was the point. Heracles murdered his family, Bellerophon killed Stheneboea by taking
her for a ride on Pegasus and pushing her of. I think that was the whole point, that you can achieve great thinks despite your flaws. I wish I had super powers. I like how heroes have evolved to be selfless.Super strength, speed (I would never be late for work) clairvoyance, or the ability to transmogrify objects. That way I could help Jeffrey Sachs lift people out of "Stupid Poverty", end sexual slavery and genocide, deliver vital medicines to the 1 billion people who live on less than a dollar a day and help erase the $200 billion in debt poor nations owe the rich. Sadly I am only human.

If anything comics are a great way to waste time. I read them at work. I know what your thinking, I am technically supposed to be "working" at work. But as long as the supervisor is not there I am going to kill my boredom and get paid for it.

Major Comma

08-12-2007, 10:19 AM

when i was a kid i got beat up a lot at school
i would go home and read spider man iron man or batman
and i would feel protected and safe
it feels like being a member of a super powered family
so, yes i read superhero comics as far as comics are concerned thats all i read i love them and i always will
besides for those early days at school i feel like i owe my super powered friends a debt of gratitude

Pink Bat Max

08-12-2007, 12:00 PM

Yeah, if it's a straight choice between those two and Batman can only EVER be like that... I'm going with B: TAS. The Batman Beyond part of it for preference.

Luckily, we don't have to choose. Everybody wins!

For me.... if I were to spend an evening watching TV? Batman with Adam West and Burt Ward, every time.

mgs

08-12-2007, 04:25 PM

when i was a kid i got beat up a lot at school
i would go home and read spider man iron man or batman
and i would feel protected and safe
</p>
this makes me wonder....how many kids read sh comics b/c they were like MC and how many read comics who were the bullies. 2 very different viewpoints at a reason for reading the comics I think.....

Buzz Dixon

08-13-2007, 10:13 AM

"BATMAN, the really really good version of BATMAN -- y'know, the one starring Adam West -- worked because it admitted the absurdity of its premise."

Ugh.

"Adam West Batman" and "really good" don't belong anywhere near each other.

You honestly think Batman should be more like that BS instead of like, say, BTAS?

Screw the silver age. The silver age sucked.

If superhero comics regressed to that kind of cheesy crap, I would never buy an issue of anything again. Ever.Yeah, because Batman done "realistically" is evil. Batman done absurd is fun because it deals in archetypes and symbols.

It occurred to me this weekend that the closest any real person has ever come to being a superhero is John Walsh.

Standard superhero set-up: Loved one killed in a bizarre/brutal manner by an unknown* and uncaught killer.

Dedicates his life to fighting crime. How? Not by adopting a silly name and putting on a silly suit, but by organizing people, speaking out, helping co-ordinate efforts among various law enforcements groups.

Then somebody got the brilliant idea to put him on TV in AMERICA'S MOST WANTED. In the run of that show they've put nearly a thousand violent felons behind bars and located a number of missing persons.

That's the real world for ya...

*There is some circumstantial evident that Jeffery Dahmer might be the killer, but no definite proof. Dahmer lived and work in the vicinity at the time, a man resembling Dahmer was seen at the mall during the time frame in which the crime occurred, Dahmer had access to a van that resembles a van seen near the crime. Far from concrete proof but creepy...

titanfan

08-13-2007, 10:17 AM

I think for me comics offer a target for each of us. In the purest sense they represent (or should represent) our highest hopes and ideas as a species.

This is exactly why I read superhero comics. Or at least that's why I started reading them and read them for a good 10-15 years or so. Superheroes used to represent the ideals and the type of people that I would have liked to strive to be.

These days, I read superhero comics for the same reason I watch that daytime soap that has been on the air for 40 years--the characters. I like to follow the storylines of the characters I grew up reading. (And like The Young and the Restless, many of the storylines that were around 20 years ago still haven't ended)

Buzz Dixon

08-13-2007, 10:17 AM

Buzz Dixon

08-13-2007, 10:18 AM

...there was just this old line on an episode of The Adventures Of Pete & Pete that may help explain it, as well: "What is it that makes a superhero? Is it muscles of steel? The ability to turn yourself into a human butane torch? Or is it something else? Is it a way of looking at the world? A way of making things a little bit stranger... and a little bit better."No, that's called acting like a grown up.

Charles RB

08-13-2007, 10:20 AM

Nobody took it seriously

Wait - they didn't take their work and job seriously? I'm sure that can't be what you meant to say.

Buzz Dixon

08-13-2007, 10:20 AM

And to re-iterate, I don't hate the concept of superheroes, some of my fondest childhood and teen memories are of superhero comics, but I really REALLY dislike what they have become for the most part.

Charles RB

08-13-2007, 10:22 AM

I really REALLY dislike what they have become for the most part.

For the most part, they've become guys and girls in costumes who punch evil people in the face. Same as it ever was.

Astonishing X-Fan

08-13-2007, 10:24 AM

Also, having written for B:TAS, I know it was just as unreal and as contrived as the original BATMAN TV series. Nobody took it seriously; they recognized the inherent absurdity and played it straight, but they never took it seriously.

It looked cool, and there were some clever bits, but is wasn't "real."

I didn't say it was.

But the Adam West stuff just plain SUCKED. It's not about it being real or not real. It's about it being stupid and cheesy and insulting to my intelligence.

As was most of the silver age.

And you know what, man? When most people say they like "realism" in comics, they're not talking the kind of extremes you are. They mean dialogue that sounds like actual dialogue, or the risk of the hero dying actually being there, or seeing the "normal" world reacting to the superpowered individuals in ways that might happen in real life.

Everyone knows that the concept in general is absurd. That doesn't mean it has to be written like it's stupid.

BTAS, unlike the Adam West Batman, actually made an effort to make the viewer CARE about the characters. Villains who had real motivation and sympathy. Heroes that had more than two dimensions. When Bruce finally realizes that he's actually HAPPY, and visits his parents graves BEGGING them to let him go, to let him stop...THAT is REAL.

DaeJi

08-13-2007, 10:27 AM

Superheroes... I mean, superheroes are comic books. No other entertainment genre does it as well; movies and t.v. are limited by time and budgets, comic strips and webcomics are limited by space, and novels?! Comic books have bridged the gap between visual and literary media, and superheroes are the defining aspects of it. No other story told in comic books can be or should be as amazing as superheroes.

And the customes. I mean look at them! Customes always work in comic; not so much in movies because they can look ridiculous or books because they can be hard to describe. Yay for comics!

Buy Quasar (the new one).

Charles RB

08-13-2007, 10:36 AM

No other story told in comic books can be or should be as amazing as superheroes.

They can be, they should be and they are - otherwise, there's no fucking point to doing any other story.

DaeJi

08-13-2007, 10:41 AM

They can be, they should be and they are - otherwise, there's no fucking point to doing any other story.

I love western comics, I love fantasy comics, I love mystery comics and war comics and sci-fi comics. But, a lot consider Watchmen the best comic story of all time. Watchmen... is about superheroes. All kinds of themes and stories can be done in comics, but superheroes are done best in comics while the other stuff is done as well in comics as anywhere else.

Charles RB

08-13-2007, 10:46 AM

But, a lot consider Watchmen the best comic story of all time. Watchmen... is about superheroes.

A lot of people consider Maus one of the best. Maus is a biography of Art Spiegelman's father's experiences in the Holocaust.

Meanwhile, Alan Moore's other works that get acclaimed like Watchmen include From Hell (historical drama/horror), The Ballad of Halo Jones (sci-fi), and Lost Girls (porn).

DaeJi

08-13-2007, 10:50 AM

A lot of people consider Maus one of the best. Maus is a biography of Art Spiegelman's father's experiences in the Holocaust.

Meanwhile, Alan Moore's other works that get acclaimed like Watchmen include From Hell (historical drama/horror), The Ballad of Halo Jones (sci-fi), and Lost Girls (porn).

Thank you for actually proving my point, even if you didn't mean too.

Anyway, without thinking about it superheroes are fun. I mean, we would all love to have powers are time, to just see our problems as another bad guy that we can punch to death.

Charles RB

08-13-2007, 10:57 AM

Thank you for actually proving my point, even if you didn't mean too.

Proved it how? Your original point was "no other story told in comic books can be or should be as amazing as superheroes" - how does pointing out non-superhero stories that were amazing prove that?

DaeJi

08-13-2007, 11:02 AM

A lot of people consider Maus one of the best.

There. Anyway, I never said that other stories in comics can't be amazing or acclaimed or works of art; Bone to this day I consider one of the best comics ever printed. But, in the great schemes of things, superheroes have made comics, and the great names (Alan Moore, Stan Lee, Grant Morrison, etc.) in comics are connected to superheroes, at least in some fashion.

Also, you aren't really making a good case here. You're just pointing at a bunch of other comics not starring superheroes and saying that they are good, without explaining why other genres in comics can or should be as strong as the superhero genre. But this tread is about why people read superhero comics, and I don't want to see it derailed by a fairly dull debate. Thus, I will say no more, and let you off. Thanks for killing a few minutes though.

AaronJ

08-13-2007, 11:38 AM

Pink Bat Max

08-13-2007, 12:18 PM

Yeah, because Batman done "realistically" is evil. Batman done absurd is fun because it deals in archetypes and symbols.

I couldn't agree more.

It occurred to me this weekend that the closest any real person has ever come to being a superhero is John Walsh.

Because I'm in an image-posting mood, I'll counter that with this image:

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=91866&rendTypeId=4

A superhero indeed.

Pink Bat Max

08-13-2007, 12:20 PM

Yeah, because Batman done "realistically" is evil. Batman done absurd is fun because it deals in archetypes and symbols.

I couldn't agree more.

It occurred to me this weekend that the closest any real person has ever come to being a superhero is John Walsh.

Because I'm in an image-posting mood, I'll counter that with this image:

http://yowbooks.com/assets/images/tiananmen-square-hero.jpg

A superhero indeed.

Corrina

08-13-2007, 12:33 PM

I think the thesis is that while stories in other genres can be told well in prose, the best tales of superheroes really only exists in sequential art.

For instance, name a prose book superhero tale that compares with Watchman. Or The New Frontier.

I can name comparisons to Maus: Night by Elie Wiesel, The Diary of Anne Frank, and I'm sure there are others. Maus stands with those but that story can also be told well in prose form.

From Hell--a Jack the Ripper story. I've read several great mysteries set in the Victorian Age that compare to that.

Basically, if you want the best superhero stories that exist, you've got to get it in sequential art.

That's not true of other genres, though I definiely think the form can be used really well by the other genres.

AaronJ

08-13-2007, 12:44 PM

I think the thesis is that while stories in other genres can be told well in prose, the best tales of superheroes really only exists in sequential art.

Absolutely.

Buzz Dixon

08-13-2007, 01:06 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "take it seriously" to be frank. Are you arguing that all super-hero stories should be over-the-top, self-mocking, and cartoonish?

Of course it is "unreal" and "contrived": It's fiction. Hamlet is unreal and contrived too.(And in reply to Astonish X-Fan as well:)

Precisely my point. All fiction is contrived. Look at "Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption" by Stephen King: It takes an extraordinary number of coincidences and plot contrivances to get us to the desired pay off. The movie leaves out over half of the challenges the hero faced, as well as King's efforts to disguise the contrivances (classic example being the cell itself; not only its location but how the protagonist managed to keep it as a one-man cell instead of having to share it with two or more bunkmates).

re "realistic" dialog: My hat's off to Harold Pinter, who writes some of the most extraordinary dialog in the English language. Pinter gets enormous mileage out of the trick of talking around something; never addressing it head on but letting the audience figure out the subject for themselves (I recommend THE BIRTHDAY PARTY as a primo example of this, but they're all good). Pinter seems remarkably realistic...until you realized every fumbled word, every awkward pause has been placed there keenly for a specifically desired effect.

Superheroes don't have to be comic, self-mocking, or tongue-in-cheek, but they can't burden themselves with any pretense of genuine realism. The classic adventures serials of the 1930s and 40s knew exactly how to capture the proper mode: They all took themselves seriously enough to create genuine suspense in the audience, but they never took themselves so seriously that they tried to make themselves look as real as...oh, let's say a police procedural like THE NAKED CITY.

I used to love superhero comics when I was a kid. Give me a SUPERMAN comic with Bizarro, red kryptonite, and/or the bottled city of Kandor and I was in 7th heaven.

I guess a big hunk of my problem with contemporary superheroes comics is a lack of a sense of fun; or more specifically, I do not care to identify with what too many superhero comics today think of as "fun." I hate cruelty in any form, and rape, wanton murder*, dismemberment, mutilation, etc. just don't do it for me.

Superhero comics are taking themselves too seriously and too realistically. The universe of the Adam West BATMAN can tolerate a Joker who repeatedly escapes prison to wreak more havoc; the universe of contemporary BATMAN comics would demand the Joker be shot on sight without mercy or pause because anything less is knowingly and willingly putting scores if not hundreds or thousands of innocent people's lives at risk.**

If nothing else, Bruce, drag him into the Batcave and weld him shut in a 4x4x4 steel box with a one-inch tube for air, water, and food pellets going in and another one-inch tube to let the waste drain out.

*I concede the paradox of the arbitrary murder required to kick off most murder mystery plots. The victim is almost always an abstraction, almost never a real character, and exists primarily to provide a set of confounding clues for then protagonist to unravel. There's a world of difference between that and raping a female character just to show how bad the supervillain is. You wanna show me a bad BAD BAD supervillain, have him pee in the Hostess Twinkies batter.

**That's the curse of continuity porn: How many hundreds of people has Joker killed now? No sane society -- no sane individual -- regardless of whether or not they thought capital punishment was right or wrong would let a monster like the Joker continue to draw a breath. He who lives by the interlinking story dies by the interlinking story...

Charles RB

08-13-2007, 02:11 PM

I guess a big hunk of my problem with contemporary superheroes comics is a lack of a sense of fun

Y'know, I keep hearing that said and then I go & read Ultimate Spider-Man, Runaways, MODOK's 11, Jack Staff or something, and go "hey, this is fun!". Am I reading completely different titles to everyone else?

the universe of contemporary BATMAN comics would demand the Joker be shot on sight without mercy or pause

Which I'd have no problem with them doing. They don't have to suceed, but they could at least try.

Buzz Dixon

08-13-2007, 04:37 PM

Y'know, I keep hearing that said and then I go & read Ultimate Spider-Man, Runaways, MODOK's 11, Jack Staff or something, and go "hey, this is fun!". Am I reading completely different titles to everyone else?

Which I'd have no problem with them doing. They don't have to suceed, but they could at least try.I liked the first run of RUNAWAYS, but once it reached it's particular climax the story seemed over to me. I was reading MARY JANE LOVES SPIDER-MAN and enjoying it, but I'm only buying digests and collections from now on so I'll be picking this one up periodically (ditto GO TEEN TITANS). I read the FRANKLIN RICHARDS stories; they were fun. And I really loved the PLANET HULK series until they ended it with one of the most pointlessly nihilistic conclusions to a series anyone has ever come up with.

The problem is, almost every time I pick up another title, I end up disappointed. I've had a couple of series recommended to me that I've really enjoyed one or two issue, then they drop a big steaming pile o' Fun-A-Way and turn me off.

I really wanted to like Jeff Smith's SHAZAM VS. THE MONSTER SOCIETY OF EVIL but man, that pup dragged on and on and on. If it had been condensed to a single issue it would have been fine.

Oh, and I never got the final issue of SUPERMAN & BATMAN VS. ALIEN & PREDATOR but that was good rolicking fun.

Infra-Man

08-13-2007, 05:13 PM

I read them for escapism, but there's also something grand about watching larger-than-life individuals accomplish extraordinary things. I guess it's kind of like the same reason I watch Jackie Chan movies: I want to see something incredible. Sure, none of the Rush Hour movies deliver that, but hey, he can't win 'em all.

Even when they don't triumph, if a superhero story is well written, I tend to admire the courage or the creativity that the heroes exhibit in trying to save the day. Seeing characters--even if they are fictional--fight adversity is something admirable.

In short, I like seeing acts of selflessness and heroism. There's not as much of it in superhero comics today, so when it does happen, it's golden.

In addition, since I don't read as much genre fiction as I'd like to, superhero comics are one way I can get my fix of sci-fi and fantasy as well as purty pictures.

Charles RB

08-13-2007, 06:29 PM

I liked the first run of RUNAWAYS, but once it reached it's particular climax the story seemed over to me.

I admit it did flounder slightly partway through the second series (what's going on with that New York story?!), but #19-present are brilliant. I especially like the Xavin/Karolina relationship, which is more interesting and ballsy than I'd ever expect from an all-ages title.

I've had a couple of series recommended to me that I've really enjoyed one or two issue, then they drop a big steaming pile o' Fun-A-Way and turn me off.

Depending on how you like supervillain stories, MODOK's 11 is probably likely to stay uber-fun for the whole mini. Nine characters show up in #1 and most of them come off as distinct people, which is a pretty strong bit of writing.

And Jack Staff, while it has a few bits of darkness and eerie stuff, is bloody fun - you can't go wrong with a character called Detective Inspector Maveryk...

Shisho

08-14-2007, 06:19 AM

Not if I can help it, but sometimes I just love what a writer is doing and make an exception. I'll always love Nightcrawler and Kitty Pryde, and I thought Nocturne and Jubilee had/have great potential as characters, but no. I try to stay away from the hero stuff.

I think hero comics are choking out the rest of the good stuff that is coming out nowadays. Hero comics tend to focus mostly on a younger audience I just can't identify with anymore. And most of the decent hero comics are run by companies that don't give their writers enough to play with because they're worried about the kids. Too many rules, not enough decent story.

Astonishing X-Fan

08-14-2007, 09:29 AM

"Hero comics tend to focus mostly on a younger audience I just can't identify with anymore"

Um...

When was the last time you checked out mainstream Marvel/DC?

I mean...kids are clearly NOT the target. Comics are written for adults these days. Even Ultimate Spider-Man is PG-13.

I mean, you'll find a LOT of people on these boards(not me, but others) who feel that DC/Marvel aren't even close to being kid-friendly enough these days.

mgs

08-14-2007, 03:00 PM

If nothing else, Bruce, drag him into the Batcave and weld him shut in a 4x4x4 steel box with a one-inch tube for air, water, and food pellets going in and another one-inch tube to let the waste drain out.

haha!!! :D BEST....IDEA....EVER!!!!

TCJohnson

08-14-2007, 03:04 PM

I think hero comics are choking out the rest of the good stuff that is coming out nowadays. Hero comics tend to focus mostly on a younger audience I just can't identify with anymore.

Yeah, like you are so mature, missy!

Buzz Dixon

08-17-2007, 03:22 PM

Rattlehead

08-17-2007, 03:55 PM

Being raised in a complete sham of a household that was ruled by two alcohol-fueled tyrants that liked to beat on one another, they offered a much needed escape in my childhood. There was a comic book shop a few blocks from my house, and I would go there everyday and just spend hours in there soaking in all of the fantastic characters and situations. I was going to spend as little time in that house as possible, lest I go insane, and thank goodness that comic book shop was there. Who knows what I would have gotten myself into if I hadn't of spent those many wonderous hours in that shop. Superheroes were the only role-models I had growing up, and it was nice to know that good people did exist, wether it be the friendly guys who ran the shop, or people in tights running around fighting bad guys. I would skip eating lunch at school and spend my entire allowance on comic books. They were people I could look up to, and they showed me that no matter happens in your life, you have to get up and be the best person that you can be. Stories like Batman and the X-Men showed me that your upbringing does not determine who you are, as so many foolish real world people would have you believe. They gave me hope in a dark time, and I may not even be on this earth had that hope not been there. I grew to love the characters, and art in general, and I'll read the damn things until I die. I may not be the best human being, but thanks to those superheroes, I'll never give up striving to be, just like Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent and so many others never give up.

Corrina

08-17-2007, 04:36 PM

Found this via scans_daily via Journalista:

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3886284.html

I'm not sayin' every superhero comic has to be like that, just not enough of 'em are like that...

If I had *one* book, one book to show people why I love superheroes, it would be Absolute New Frontier.

And, Rattlehead, that was beautiful.

Mia

08-17-2007, 07:10 PM

I read them because they are the only place in pop culture where a ‘man is still a man’ and ‘a woman is still a woman’. I also like to read them because it’s one of the few places left where people ‘step up to the plate’ and do their duty like what adults are supposed to do—whether they feel like it or not. I find it very inspirational. I like to read about good men and women (or not so good men and women) taking on evil doers who prey on the more vulnerable of society.

On an aesthetic level I like beautiful art work, looking at men and women in shape (great inspiration for going to the gym). And I also like the storytelling.

Charles RB

08-17-2007, 07:31 PM

I read them because they are the only place in pop culture where a ‘man is still a man’ and ‘a woman is still a woman’.

No, in the rest of pop culture, men have penises and women have vaginas.

Corrina

08-18-2007, 03:08 PM

Superheroes have penises?

Alex Ross better get on track and start drawing the rest of them like the new Steel.

Pink Bat Max

08-18-2007, 03:23 PM

Superheroes have penises?

Not according to Rob Liefeld:

http://howtokillpeople.com/pics/post61/35.jpg

Smooth as silk down there.

Charles RB

08-18-2007, 03:47 PM

Superheroes have penises?

For the sake of public decency, they have the mutant power of retractible willies.

Buzz Dixon

08-18-2007, 05:25 PM

Not according to Rob Liefeld:

http://howtokillpeople.com/pics/post61/35.jpg

Smooth as silk down there.No wonder he's so mean.

Heroid

08-18-2007, 05:27 PM

I've read superhero comic books since I was little. I remember the first issues of X-Men and Avengers. I started reading superhero comics because of the dynamic looking characters and the sense of wonder their adventures inspired in me. I spent a lot of time alone when I was young and the X-Men, the Avengers, and the Legion of Superheroes kept me company.

Today, I still read superhero comics. I also play City of Heroes. I love superheroes. I don't mind if they have feet of clay, so long as when it's do or die time, the hero does the right thing. The best ones still inspire me to wonder.

I don't like dystopic superhero worlds where you can't tell the hero from the villain. Don't get me wrong -- you can tell a good yarn with that kind of concept, and all joy and light would get pretty boring pretty fast. I just don't want the worlds the series I read are set in to be consistently dark and getting darker. I want the heroes to make the world better, not worse. If there are dark places in that world, that's okay. I just don't want my superheroes making it darker. Even Batman should be fighting the darkness, not wallowing in it.

I really don't like the notion of taking a pair of heroes who have been friends and comrades in arms since I was in first grade and making one of them a villain who may be possible for the death of the other.

Right now, Marvel is not working for me. DC is, even though there are a lot of dark areas in the DCU right now. The difference is that I am pretty sure the heroes of the DCU will come together to fight whatever crisis is about to happen, whereas the heroes of the Marvel U will likely continue their rift.

I read other types of comic books, but superheroes remain my favorite type.

Dunno if that answers your question or not. /em shrugs