Ra's al Ghul returns in inter-group crossover (with samples of Tony Daniel art)

[Captain Jim]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124771

Make sure you click on the original art pages to see them enlarged.

[Lorendiac]

Yep, one of these days I'm going to need to write an updated version of The Ra's al Ghul FAQ. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=125176) (The current version only reflects his continuity -- including vital status, family ties, etc. -- as it stood around the time of Infinite Crisis). I've been holding off on any updates until the Damian situation gets "clarified" and/or "resolved." I mean, has Bruce even bothered to have any DNA tests run yet? Now I guess I'll also hold off until the Ra's al Ghul situation gets clarified . . .

[Bat_Fan2232]

rumors fly and a good source says that the ressurection or Ra's could lead to the death of batman ? over heard in the shop yesterday from a highly legit source ...

[Captain Jim]

rumors fly and a good source says that the ressurection or Ra's could lead to the death of batman ? over heard in the shop yesterday from a highly legit source ...

That's crazy.

[Captain Jim]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124771

Make sure you click on the original art pages to see them enlarged.

I believe this is the first Batman "inter-group" crossover since War Games. Well, I am definitely going to have to pick this up.

Btw, that Tony Daniels are is beautiful!

[Lorendiac]

rumors fly and a good source says that the ressurection or Ra's could lead to the death of batman ? over heard in the shop yesterday from a highly legit source ...

So? He's died before (the JLA arc "The Obsidian Age" springs to mind) and I imagine he'll die again. Just like Superman (even before "The Obsidian Age"), Wonder Woman (even before "The Obsidian Age"), Hal Jordan, Ollie Queen, Jason Todd . . . :)

Now, if I thought Bruce Wayne was going to die permanently I might be a little concerned . . . but why would he do a crazy thing like that?

[Choppa]

If Ras' body was cremated, I can't imagine how they could bring him back. Perhaps all the hints of Damien and Talia's importance suggest that Damien might become the new Ra's? Or actually is Ra's in a new body and the 'son' thing is bullsh!t.

Didn't Morrison do something like that with Xorn and Magneto in his X-men run?

[stillanerd]

Now, if I thought Bruce Wayne was going to die permanently I might be a little concerned . . . but why would he do a crazy thing like that?

Probably to tie into Batman #666. Of course, Bruce would return but in the meantime, we get stories of him stuck in the afterlife battling demons, the undead, angels, and teaming up with his mom and dad. Hey, it's Grant Morrison, weirdness is his forte.

As for Ra's Al Ghul returning, can't say I'm all that surprised. Never believed the notion that "Death and the Maidens" was the "last" Ra's Al Ghul story anyway.

[Cayman]

I hope they resurrect Nyssa as well.

[CYOTI]

Wow the return of I Ching.

[Captain Jim]

Perhaps all the hints of Damien and Talia's importance suggest that Damien might become the new Ra's? Or actually is Ra's in a new body and the 'son' thing is bullsh!t.

Didn't Morrison do something like that with Xorn and Magneto in his X-men run?

Don't know about that, but I think that's what happened to Lex Luthor.

[Expletive Deleted]

If Ras' body was cremated, I can't imagine how they could bring him back.Retcon punch.

I'm in for Morrison and Dini's chapters, but I dunno about the rest.

[shaxper]

And here I thought DC had finally knocked off the inter-title crap. This one had better be justified.

[brundlefly]

Don't know about that, but I think that's what happened to Lex Luthor.

Sort of, kind of. Lex genetically-engineered himself a new body for his transplanted brain in order to escape his original cancer-ridden body. I assume Ra's would use alchemical or mystical means, probably involving the Lazarus Pit, to pull off a similar switcheroo.

[Lorendiac]

Sort of, kind of. Lex genetically-engineered himself a new body for his transplanted brain in order to escape his original cancer-ridden body. I assume Ra's would use alchemical or mystical means, probably involving the Lazarus Pit, to pull off a similar switcheroo.

You probably know what I'm about to say -- but for the benefit of those who came in late and who aren't intimately familiar with the Superman continuity of the early 90s, I believe Captain Jim's main point about the possible parallel was that after Lex had his brain transplanted into a clone-body, he loudly claimed to be "Lex Luthor II" -- the clean-living Australian-raised red-bearded son of the original Lex, and the sole heir to his vast commercial empire. Even Lois Lane and Clark Kent believed Lex II was a different person until well after Superman's return from the dead.

So if Ra's has somehow gotten his mind inside what is allegedly the body of his only living grandson, a kid who might turn out better than Grandpa ever did if he got the right paternal attention from Batman, then we could say that Ra's simply stole a page from Luthor's playbook and changed a few details as he went along! Granted, he might use alchemy and Lazarus Pits instead of cloning and literal brain transplants, but those differences are pretty superficial, compared to the core concept of "I'll put my most dangerous enemy off-guard by pretending to be my own young and somewhat naive and impressionable descendant for awhile!" :)

[brundlefly]

You probably know what I'm about to say -- but for the benefit of those who came in late and who aren't intimately familiar with the Superman continuity of the early 90s, I believe Captain Jim's main point about the possible parallel was that after Lex had his brain transplanted into a clone-body, he loudly claimed to be "Lex Luthor II" -- the clean-living Australian-raised red-bearded son of the original Lex, and the sole heir to his vast commercial empire. Even Lois Lane and Clark Kent believed Lex II was a different person until well after Superman's return from the dead.

So if Ra's has somehow gotten his mind inside what is allegedly the body of his only living grandson, a kid who might turn out better than Grandpa ever did if he got the right paternal attention from Batman, then we could say that Ra's simply stole a page from Luthor's playbook and changed a few details as he went along! Granted, he might use alchemy and Lazarus Pits instead of cloning and literal brain transplants, but those differences are pretty superficial, compared to the core concept of "I'll put my most dangerous enemy off-guard by pretending to be my own young and somewhat naive and impressionable descendant for awhile!" :)

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I was just clarifying the specifics of how Lex had pulled off his body swap, since I wasn't sure if Jim knew the storyline, compared to how Ra's would potentially do something similar. Ra's-as-Damian is an intriguing idea, and a very interesting parallel of 'hiding in plain sight' like Lex did. Although in this instance he'd have the added benefit of gaining Bruce's trust and concern and being taken into the fold (Wayne Manor/Batcave), whereas Superman still didn't trust Lex II all that much, just because of his lineage. So he's in a much better situation if he wants to use the element of surprise when he strikes....

[Bat_Fan2232]

source was paul dini by the way he was in a comic store i go to last week and soupposedly /spoiler bruce wayne dies and he is going to write a new mini series off of it. / spoiler

[CYOTI]

Very believable, Marc Andreyko's abortion bombing storyline for Manhunter was revealed the same way during the publication of the trial of wonder woman issues.

[Paul Dee]

Cor, that art's lovely. I love the second page of Batman looking back at the body on the floor.


Not to get all Dc-continuity-anal again but:

RAMA: Just so we're all factual here, Ra's died in Death and the Maidens, right? In terms of the DCU, how long has he been gone?

MM: Correct, Ra’s died in Death and the Maidens. And figure that took place a little over a year ago in DC Continuity time.


That's just plain wrong surely? A little over a year ago (even in DC continuity time, because of 52) would put it around the time of Infinite Crisis wouldn't it? I'm trying to think of a story from around then which contradicts this but can't. It still just doesn't seem to fit somehow though.


This should be great though, even if I have to buy issues of Robin and Nightwing I never normally would.

[Sizzle]

I can't wait. I love Ra's and was not happy when they killed him. It looks like Tony is stepping up his art a notch from this Titans work which I thought he did a good job on the book. His art was clean and easy to look at.

Now, I trust Grant to come up with a good way to bring back Ra's. I also think the character is a good fit for Grant's style.

Oh, and as someone who's pride of his collection is Batman 232, I am glad Ra's is coming back :)

[Choppa]

Even if Damien turning out to be Ra's is redundant, I don't really care. It gets rid of Batman having a son and is a clever way of updating Ra's as a villian. BTW, Batman never did a DNA test did he? He just trusted Talia right?

[Captain Jim]

source was paul dini by the way he was in a comic store i go to last week and soupposedly /spoiler bruce wayne dies and he is going to write a new mini series off of it. / spoiler

I still have a hard time believing that a writer would leak something this major. They are normally very tight lipped about this sort of thing.

[Bats]

All I know is the Tony Daniel art looks outstanding. Can't wait.

[Bat_Fan2232]

I still have a hard time believing that a writer would leak something this major. They are normally very tight lipped about this sort of thing.

i agree and i wouldnt have believed it (the owner always messes with me about how paul dini comes in two or three times a year but i thought it was bs) but today when i went to the shop i had a autogrpahed detective comic sitting in a case in my box that said to my biggest fan sorry i missed you...

still my owner may be bullsh**ing because he knows how much i love batman and i wont read anything else

[Samuraixsithlord]

maybe we'll get to see a redeemed Cassandra Cain in this storyline? If it involves the whole Bat group.

[mattx110]

source was paul dini by the way he was in a comic store i go to last week and soupposedly /spoiler bruce wayne dies and he is going to write a new mini series off of it. / spoiler

this is the worst labelled spoiler ever! how can i avoid reading something in visible text preceded by the words "source was paul dini"!? i don't have that will-power...

(ps, i'm joking a bit, i'm not really mad in case you thought i was)

and does tony daniel seem kind of jim lee+gene colan-y to anyone else? the pages look great so far.

[BooCoo]

That's crazy.

for real. What's one thing got to do with the other? That being said, having Ras back is cool...

Cripes, the way things are going I'm waiting for him to go all Darth Vader on Bruce...

"BRUCE, I AM YOUR FATHER."

(Bruce) "NOOOOOO...."

[BooCoo]

Probably to tie into Batman #666. Of course, Bruce would return but in the meantime, we get stories of him stuck in the afterlife battling demons, the undead, angels, and teaming up with his mom and dad. Hey, it's Grant Morrison, weirdness is his forte.

That's past weird, it's crack on a plate.

Maybe someone tosses Bruce into the pit against his will, making him 'part of the family' officially.

That's a stumpy looking Batman BTW...foreshortening or not. He looks about 5'8" crouched on that gargoyle. Weird...