New Pillars of the X-World

[Brian M.]

Since Uncanny X-Men #1 Xavier and Magneto have been the deciding forces in the books. Yea, we've had Sinister and Apoc. We've had Exodus and Storm. But when ever you define mutant struggles, these two are at the forefront.

It's time for something new. It was suggested in the recent X-Position that Cyclops and Sinister are good polar opposites. While I think Cyclops would be an excellent and logical choice to continue the dream, I'm not sure about Sinister. If anyone is gonna step into the role of "Magneto", I think Apocalypse is perfect. Him and Cyclops already have a shared history, they are polar opposites when it comes to beliefs and they both are beacons for their respective sides. Cyclops has the X-Men, Apocalypse has the Dark Riders and Horsemen he creates.

So the point of this thread is:

-Should Xavier/Magneto be replaced w/ someone else?

-Would Cyclops/Apocalypse fit that role?

-Would Cyclops even be the best choice for the 'Xavier' archtype'?

http://www.tmnttoys.com/reviews/MarvelLegends/series10/4419.jpg

[Slant]

I do think its time to move on from Magneto/Xavier. They should still have a bit of influence, but I don't think it should be what it was.

And I think Apocalypse needs some major re-tooling before he ever comes back, so Sinister is perfect right now.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

That is exactly what Cyclops SHOULD be. But somehow hasn't been for a long hile. He really should be a greater focal point than he has been over the past couple of years.

[Sentinel K]

Until recently I always saw Cable as the new leader of the 'dream'.

He started off with VERY different ideas to Xavier (X-Force for example) but grew into the role of not only mutant saviour but World saviour.

Now he's dead.

[caney]

Mystique could step up and be a Magneto-like pillar. She works with the current survival theme of mutants since M-day. She does whatever it takes to survive and if she were willing to step up and be a leader among mutants, she'd be a very powerful force. Survival of the mutant race is a noble cause, but just like Magneto, she uses unethical means to work towards her goals.

I think the best current choice for the Xavier-like pillar is Cyclops. He has the same ultimate goal of mutant survival, but also has the values to make sure the goal is reached in a more ethical manner. He's been a student of Xavier for a very long time and has seen enough to both take the good from Xavier's teachings as well as learn from the mistakes Xavier has made over the years.

Cable has been an interesting character as far as his goals. If he were around, I could see him filling either Xavier's role or Magneto's role. He has the best of intentions as he works to avoid the future he grew up in, but he's also willing to ignore any authority to further his agenda. Only his own moral compass would determine which path he takes in the end.

[Brian M.]

Cyclops and Cable on opposite sides...that'd be ideal for me.

[jarrod]

Meh, the Scott/Sinister dynamic just seems so comparably limited to what we've had with Xaiver/Magnus in terms of any philosophies or histories with a "real world" reminiscence and pull. And really, that's the reason why Xaiver/Magnus wake for such engaiging, provoking archetypes, that sort of "real world" pull.... Scott/Sinister by comparison seem like they're plunging too far into creepy sci-fi self reference, it moves too far from the resembalance to minority struggle that's at the root of the mutant world concept's popularity.

Were Jean still alive, I think she'd have been the best to lead the House of X into the future. Even Ororo or Emma would work though, Scott at the forefront just seems so comparably lacking in vision, perception and ideas. "Cyclops" as a second name is apt in more ways than one, and the idea that the X-men are soon going to be "more of an army" seems very much like a Cyclops sort of structuring and ideology. He's a soldier really, seems pretty clear to me those are the only sorts of terms he really understands and can perfrom in.

Sinister though, makes little to no sense as heading any mutant cause... nevermind that he's not a mutant, but his work has never been at all concerned with social or cultural systems. His goals are purely selfserving and his aims purely scientific... he's really lacking in any sort of ideology dealing with anyone else. He'd rank way behind Apocalypse, Exodus, Mystique and tons of other villians for filling Magento's role.

[HellFrost]

I think that Cyclops and the original 5(including Jean, when she's alive) against Mr. Sinister(and maybe include Apocalypse and Dark Beast).

Why only include Cyclops? yes he's always been there leader but, they have been in the same fight with the same dream just as long as he has. I think calling the original 5 the pillar of mutant hope is much more powerful than just one of them.

[Slant]

The original 5 don't really operate as a group anymore though.

[Brian M.]

I do agree w/ Sinister isn't the one that should take the place of Magneto, Apocalypse seems to be the only one who has another vision for mutants.

As for the Original 5, I don't see any of them, well strike that, maybe Beast or Jean could do it.

Warren and Bobby seem like decent generals, but I wouldn't put them at the forefront.

[Brian M.]

The original 5 don't really operate as a group anymore though.

They should.

[Dagger]

I like the idea of Cable being the leader for a different tomorrow. That's what they seemed to want to go with him back in the 90's, and I'm sick of seeing the same faces as the 'head' for the mutant cause. I'd also like to see a human who wants to see the eradication of mutantkind come to the forefront. And not someone who gets killed after one big storyline. Someone who keeps coming back, time and again and just won't stop until the job is done.

The whatever Tremaine and her Purity thing could be the new generation of the Friends of Humanity.

[Slant]

I do agree w/ Sinister isn't the one that should take the place of Magneto, Apocalypse seems to be the only one who has another vision for mutants.


I think alot of that depends on what direction the current arc in adjectiveless goes. I mean, its one thing when he just has a bunch of clones working for him, but this time, he's got Mystique, Lady M, Gambit, Sunfire, and the Acolytes all in with him, so its likely he's got something to persuade them for whatever his purpose is.

And on that note, yeah Apocalypse is really the only other one I can see who can rally mutants together. Maybe Exodus, but certainly not Mystique. She plays by her own rules too much.

[HellFrost]

They should.

And doesn't mean they never will again. The reason they don't work together anymore isn't because they don't have the same dream, it's because they just went their separate way and it kinda stuck. There is no reason why they can't get back together, and who cares if they were more in the background? Bring them into the forefront now. It's never to late to make a character more interesting ore more powerful(emotionally speaking) imo.

[Brian M.]

see I don't think Exodus works either b/c he's just gonna be invoking Magneto and if you do that, you might as well just use buckethead.

[Brian M.]

And doesn't mean they never will again. The reason they don't work together anymore isn't because they don't have the same dream, it's because they just went their separate way and it kinda stuck. There is no reason why they can't get back together, and who cares if they were more in the background? Bring them into the forefront now. It's never to late to make a character more interesting ore more powerful(emotionally speaking) imo.

Oh believe me, my love for the O5 shows no bounds. I would love it if they all cameback and ran the school, were the spearheads of the dream. But, like so many other fanboy dreams, I just don't see Marvel doing that.

[HellFrost]

see I don't think Exodus works either b/c he's just gonna be invoking Magneto and if you do that, you might as well just use buckethead.

Forbushman? lol:D

[HellFrost]

Oh believe me, my love for the O5 shows no bounds. I would love it if they all cameback and ran the school, were the spearheads of the dream. But, like so many other fanboy dreams, I just don't see Marvel doing that.

I understand your point. But You never know. We could get lucky one of these days. *crosses fingers*

[jarrod]

see I don't think Exodus works either b/c he's just gonna be invoking Magneto and if you do that, you might as well just use buckethead.
I agree with that actually, Exodus would be less than ideal... but in a lot of ways, I think that's largely true of Scott and Xaiver too.

Scott and Emma as a team might work, and provide a new interesting dynamic against a single "bad guy" counterpoint (like Apocalypse) and/or "grey area" counterpoint (like Cable).

[Brian M.]

I think if you keep w/ the way Scott currently feels towards Xavier, you make those changed stick and actually keep it as a character change, I think he works. Someone else posted on the first page that Scott's seen what works, what doesn't work. He's also been out on his own (X-Factor) and made it work doing it the way he wanted it done. Whereas Exodus is pretty much just following completely in Magneto's footsteps...again this is pre#200 thinking b/c we don't yet know why Exodus is w/ Sinister.

[Magneto Rocks]

Moving on is good, it can be done. But I want closure and wrap-up on Xavier/Magneto, not them just kind of falling rubbishly to the wayside.

Put closure on their dynamic, end it with a bang, and then I'm all for new pillars.

[Faded]

I loved for Emma/Exodus, only because I'm tickled by the notion that someone like Emma would--by either personal choice or pressing circumstance--be the "pillar" for the X-Men. Exodus, if written in anyway Carey has described in interviews, could finally be a really interesting character concept.

I think Apocalypse and Sinister would be very easy to play out rather quickly, so I just wouldn't vote for them. They're both enjoyable showing up once, maybe twice a decade lol.

For the Magneto role or maybe even a third side to this poll, I'd choose Quickie. I really think he's capable of really bringing people to his side despite his involvement in depowering Scanner.

[Slant]

Put closure on their dynamic, end it with a bang, and then I'm all for new pillars.

You mean like killing them both, or something? Because yeah, now that Xavier is powered and stronger than previous, it'd probably take something like that to really get the feel that they're moving on. Same with Mags.

[Sentinel K]

I'm thinking the X-Books desperately needs a new villain to possibly take on the 'villain' pillar.

IMO there is NOBODY at the moment who can replace Magneto

The X-Books are severly lacking in good, complex, engaging Villains at the moment.

[We R. Venom]

I think Cyke and Exodus would be great. Both students of their teachers. Exodus I just love. He is very different in the ways he goes about things. Cyke is his own man as well.

[kate-pryde]

I like the idea of Cyclops stepping up and replacing Xavier, and Cable getting out of control and becoming Magneto - as a sort of mutant Messiah who's willing to do whatever it takes to save mutantkind.

I'd love to see Scott step up, be a leader but also a teacher and role model to the students - like the Xavier he idolized, not the current Xavier.

[Christopher O]

-Should Xavier/Magneto be replaced w/ someone else?
No, I don't think so. They represent entire ideologies, regardless of whether either is present in any given story. Kill them both, and that won't change.

-Would Cyclops/Apocalypse fit that role?
Apocalypse needs a drastic overhaul before he'll be fitting any roles. Seriously, lame.

-Would Cyclops even be the best choice for the 'Xavier' archtype'?
Since we're talking archetypes, I have to say no. Xavier is a visionary, and Cyclops is a soldier. Where Xavier has a vision, Cyclops has a plan.

[jarrod]

I think if you keep w/ the way Scott currently feels towards Xavier, you make those changed stick and actually keep it as a character change, I think he works. Someone else posted on the first page that Scott's seen what works, what doesn't work. He's also been out on his own (X-Factor) and made it work doing it the way he wanted it done. Whereas Exodus is pretty much just following completely in Magneto's footsteps...again this is pre#200 thinking b/c we don't yet know why Exodus is w/ Sinister.
Well yeah, I can see how the conflict with Xaiver might push Scott in his own direction... but I think think there's a larger issue with him heading a movement. A movement isn't a team, a squad or an army, it's more complex than that and requires an adeptness and charisma that I think Scott fundamentally lacks. Not to say he's not smart enough or not likeable enough or whatever, but I dunno.... he's always struck me as a "the field leader". His expertise is in combat strategy and military concerns, he'd work better as part of a team with a more visionary partner (be that Emma or Jean or Ororo or whoever). But really then, at that point I think any of those ladies would have what it takes to lead the dream indipendantly, and Scott would be more in the role he's always excelled at: 2nd in command.

[jarrod]

Since we're talking archetypes, I have to say no. Xavier is a visionary, and Cyclops is a soldier. Where Xavier has a vision, Cyclops has a plan.
Nailed it, much more succinctly than I ever could. :D


What do you think about Ororo, Emma or Jean taking over that role though? Maybe even Kitty in time too?

[Magneto Rocks]

You mean like killing them both, or something? Because yeah, now that Xavier is powered and stronger than previous, it'd probably take something like that to really get the feel that they're moving on. Same with Mags.

If killing must be done, then I guess they should do it, but I don't think killing both of them is totally necessary. I'd be perfectly happy with completing the end of Magneto's character arc (By now less of an arc than a curvy, extremely twisted line.) Have him redeem himself, and if necessary, die in the doing. But I'd prefer to see him redeemed and alive, with closure on his dream for mutantkind. Have him finally talk to Lorna, work out some of the family issues, complete the Magneto cycle.

There's zero chance of this happening without immediate retconning because of differing writer views of course, but I can dream...

[Sentinel K]

Since we're talking archetypes, I have to say no. Xavier is a visionary, and Cyclops is a soldier. Where Xavier has a vision, Cyclops has a plan.

This is why I think Cable is a better fit.

He's a visionary (partly due to the fact he's seen the future. Well... a future) with ideas to better the planet and humanity.

He has traits of both Charles and Magneto and I could see an event possibly tipping him more in the direction of ONE of them (Xavier preferably IMO).

He wants Human/Mutant co-existence but he also has little regard for governments and the establishment.

[Hi-Fi]

What do you think about Ororo, Emma or Jean taking over that role though? Maybe even Kitty in time too?
Jean and Ororo, sure. Emma? Are you kiding me?

But yeah, Chris nailed it. It will always be about Xavier and Magneto, and that's the way I like it. Cyclops is a soldier, nothing more.

[Christopher O]

This is why I think Cable is a better fit.

He's a visionary (partly due to the fact he's seen the future. Well... a future) with ideas to better the planet and humanity.

He has traits of both Charles and Magneto and I could see an event possibly tipping him more in the direction of ONE of them (Xavier preferably IMO).

He wants Human/Mutant co-existence but he also has little regard for governments and the establishment.
I always liked Cable as the third alternative. He is a visionary, but he's also a soldier. He'll resort to what can be construed as terrorism, if it suits his goals. I like that.

I also agree with jarrod on Scott working better as part of a team. I love the current partnership with Emma. Together, they fill the "Xavier" role in a very interesting way. I'd love to see Storm and Angel become the financiers of the Institute and something like boardmembers--the two that keep Emma and Scott accountable. I'd love that. It's always more interesting, when there's more than one person in charge.

[EmmaFrost]

I absolutely adore that we're finally seeing news and rumours of Cyclops finally being in control and taking lead. I also think the reason why they're seeing this is because Joss Whedon made it psychologically possible to happen, considering the issues he's written in Astonishing X-Men.

Go Cyclops!!

And I can totally see Emma right behind him...supporting him!

[Bart Simpson]

Cyclops and Sinister. Nuff said

[Sentinel K]

Cyclops and Sinister. Nuff said

I think there is more to be said.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Cyclops isnt an idea man, never has been, never will be. He's a good tactical leader, but ive never seen him lead well outside of battle.



I think a better x-man to take up the Xavier type role would be Storm. She branched out from Xavier and started up her own thing and was even running counter to Xavier for a while when he was being more of a mutant isolationist.


For the counter ideology? Hmmm

tough to say. I think Magneto has been too gray to really fit this role. Plus him being mentally ill im not sure i'd like for a pillar.

Sinister doesnt have enough draw really. He always seems like a sidedish villain.

Bump up an Acolyte maybe? I cant really take Exodus that seriously right now. I still have austen taste in my mouth.

Id almost say take a very popular x-character and flip them villain.

[Omega Alpha]

Cyke for the X-men, without a doubt. He is THE leader of the X-men and can move the dream forward, but without Xavier's means justifies ends mentality. Storm, Emma, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler etc, are just replacements that will never be as good as the original.

As for the opposite ideology, i don't think you need only one. You can have Exodus, Apocalypse, Sinister, Quicksilver and even Cable as leader of different factions.

[brundlefly]

Xavier and Magneto are too representative where the "Martin Luther King/Malcolm X" parallels/ideologies of the X-Universe are concerned. And you can try to kill either character off or replace them over and over again (and it has been tried) but they'll both return because of how central and integral they are to Marvel's mutantkind mythos. Kind of the same way none of the "original five" ever stay dead for long, too. Trying to off them and replace that forefront relationship with something like Cable/Apocalypse is like trying to replace the Reed/Doom relationship in FF with, I don't know, Human Torch/Wizard or Thing/Puppet Master. Kind of an underwhelming substitution and it just doesn't have the same impact or sense of thematic importance. While I love Storm, Cyke, Sinister, et al, none of them have the ability to replace the X-Universe's Xavier/Magneto dynamic.

[rwsmith]

Wolverine and Romulus.:p

[jarrod]

Wolverine and Romulus.:p
heh, funny enough I've always felt Logan, Magnus and Xaiver were the only three who ever managed to hold their own against Claremont's super smart, super versatile, super capable, alpha warrior women. Back in the day, it seemed like almost any of the women deep down had what it takes to change the world (Jean, Ororo, Kitty, Dani, Amara, Shan, Illyana, Betsy, Rachel, Rogue, etc, etc) but the men (outside the three mentioned) were perpetual chumps at their core. :/

Maybe that partially why Ororo or Jean stepping into Xaiver's shoes feels like it'd be almost effortless, while Scott reeks of an impossibility? Claremont rotted my brain as a kid? :D

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

The reason scott would be a bad pillar is because he always runs to alaska. This explains his love of Emma frost. His penis is used to frigid.


Need some stability in pillars or else the roof falls down

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

As much as I'm all for Cyke finally not being the A-listers' b**ch, I gotta say I don't thin they're actually thinking of turning him into another Xavier. As if the 'more an army than a family' quote seems to heavily hint at that.

Cyke's the stone cold psycho you put in charge of a war. Not an administrator/ideologist/diplomat. Running a school isn't exactly his comfort zone.

And since MC seems to be all about war, well, there just isn't anyone around to fit the bill better.

Emma's too much of an (actual at that) administrator. Jean and Hank are too nice. 'Ro's too much of *everything* (damn you, CC) that her being in charge wouldn't convey any specific theme/notion.

[rwsmith]

How about Forge? He worked for the government for awhile, so perhaps he could lead the charge for mutant rights these days? Maybe he ought to run for public office or something. That might be cool.

[Christopher O]

How about Forge? He worked for the government for awhile, so perhaps he could lead the charge for mutant rights these days? Maybe he ought to run for public office or something. That might be cool.
It would be cool, if he got assassinated in the process.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

How about Forge? He worked for the government for awhile, so perhaps he could lead the charge for mutant rights these days? Maybe he ought to run for public office or something. That might be cool.

I'll have to fo gor a big fat 'no' on this one.

Or Deus' scenario. Whatever. :D

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Forge is awesome

But Storm really should be taking charge.

[HellFrost]

Emma's too much of an (actual at that) administrator. Jean and Hank are too nice. 'Ro's too much of *everything* (damn you, CC) that her being in charge wouldn't convey any specific theme/notion.

I actually think that Emma, Jean, and Ororo are perfect for the leadership roles. I just prefer Scott leading.

I also don't really think of Jean as too nice. She'd probably be an amazing leader...

[Omega Alpha]

It would be cool, if he got assassinated in the process.

I like this idea.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I actually think that Emma, Jean, and Ororo are perfect for the leadership roles. I just prefer Scott leading.

I *love* Emma, but Cyke has been a huge part of her cred so far. Sad but true.

Didn't disagree with 'Ro since CC made sure she'd have/fit about every positive attribute/archetype in the book. Was just saying it would have no resonance/point whatsoever. Hardly anything thematic about a bordeline Omega/Goddess.


I also don't really think of Jean as too nice. She'd probably be an amazing leader...

But people in the MU do think she is that nice. Well, either that or a temperamental psycho to not f**k with. Never been much of a middle ground. Thus the cred issue. Team leader or headmistress, sure. But next to no one in the MU would have her as their first choice to lead anything ressembling a large scale war effort if it wasn't for her powers. Hell, arguably even with them.

And just the record, not being the first choice to lead an ugly war really isn't a bad thing per se.

[Christopher O]

Was just saying it would have no resonance/point whatsoever. Hardly anything thematic about a bordeline Omega/Goddess.
Why is that?

[Dagger]

IMO, Cyke just doesn't have what it takes to become an influential leader in a 'political arena'. And that's what the whole thing on mutant rights is, a very political/ideology battle. Cyke's great when it comes to leading people on a battlefield, they all form around him, but when it comes to the fight against something you can't hit with a force beam, he falls flat. He isn't known for making big inspirational speeches, or inspiring others for that matter. He doesn't really try to improve mutant/human relations, and doesn't make people rethink their ideologies with his actions like Xavier, and Magneto. He's a leiutenant, but I don't see him as being a general.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

IMO, Cyke just doesn't have what it takes to become an influential leader in a 'political arena'. And that's what the whole thing on mutant rights is, a very political/ideology battle.

I didn't quite get the vibe MC was about that.


Cyke's great when it comes to leading people on a battlefield, they all form around him, but when it comes to the fight against something you can't hit with a force beam, he falls flat.
Agreed 100% with ya that running a school and race really isn't his comfort zone. Is not aknowledging it even an option?


He isn't known for making big inspirational speeches, or inspiring others for that matter.

Kinda got this vibe he'd go for the 'you don't like it, get the f**k out of here' approach during MC.

Why is that?

People still rolling their eyes (or just ignoring, really) that Goddess of Thunder thingy? Sage being a Storm LIGHT when it comes to prowess?

[Christopher O]

People still rolling their eyes (or just ignoring, really) that Goddess of Thunder thingy? Sage being a Storm LIGHT when it comes to prowess?
That doesn't answer my question.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

That doesn't answer my question.

Kinda. Her being a quasi-goddess/Omega and her being so good at everything removes pretty much the meaning/stake of whatever she's been doing for years.

People not batting an eyelash at her taking on SS or Magneto doesn't exactly scream 'average hero's struggle'.

[Christopher O]

Kinda. Her being a quasi-goddess/Omega and her being so good at everything removes pretty much the meaning/stake of whatever she's been doing for years.

People not batting an eyelash at her taking on SS or Magneto doesn't exactly scream 'average hero's struggle'.

The X-Men have never been about the average hero's struggle. That's Spider-Man. The X-Men are about being different and fighting for acceptance. Facing down Magneto (or the Silver Surfer) really doesn't take away from those thematic truths. In fact, the more powerful the mutant, the more likely they are to be feared and hated.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I meant from a military/tactical angle. Social message or not, the whole thing still is about good guys and bad guys beating the f**k out of one another.

'Ro transcends about 99% of said folks on either side. Well, in CC's mind anyway and it's never been retconned or toned down. Pretty much makes it fact.

The last similar case of an uber-powerful x-hero/heroine was, huh, Jean. :eek:

[Christopher O]

I meant from a military/tactical angle. Social message or not, the whole thing still is about good guys and bad guys beating the f**k out of one another.
So you're backtracking? The post I initally responded to mentioned resonance and theme. Besides, if it's a "military/tactical" issue, then having Storm makes a great deal more sense than NOT having her.

'Ro transcends about 99% of said folks on either side. Well, in CC's mind anyway and it's never been retconned or toned down. Pretty much makes it fact.
Charles Xavier does too, but that hasn't stopped him from being used for 40+ years.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

So you're backtracking? The post I initally responded to mentioned resonance and theme.

No. War/conflict/survival seem to be big themes from MC.

Throwing in from the get-go an Optimus Prime on steroids (only nicer, cooler and better all around) as a war leader kinda takes away from the whole 'back-against-the-wall/end-of-all-things' vibe. :rolleyes:


Besides, if it's a "military/tactical" issue, then having Storm makes a great deal more sense than NOT having her.

Obviously. I actually agreed to that. No way CC's pimping can ever be undone. But it can be partly ignored. Kinda like what the x-office is doing.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Storm maybe but Cyclops being the one for everyone to gather behind? He's a nice field leader but he's not inspirational in the least.

Exodus proved in X-Men Annual #1 that he has that energy to lead a race or cult of people under his word or vision. But him speaking against Magneto is VERY against character for him in general. Exodus said it best in the Annual kickoff of this whole crossover really "Don't you understand? I would kill a billion human lives to save just one mutant." That speaks volumes to the level of his dedication to the survival of mutantkind and that's always been at the core of his character. Hell, he's SUPPOSED to be the HEIR of Magneto. That's how he got popular in the first place. He berated Pietro, Wanda, Jean, and Xavier about his goals to follow in Magneto's footsteps during "Bloodties".

Sinister is all about himself but he's about life and evolution as well. It drives him on. People usually follow him out of fear though instead of his beliefs or anything of that nature.

[Nightwolf]

I think one of the pillars should be Cable. I mean he was born for the role, he's been leading people his whole life. He's a great soildier and tactical mind, able to plan ahead better than anyone i can think of. Not just that but, he already has a plan for the betterment of not just mutant kind but everyone! Plus he's PROVEN he can make his dream work with providence and rumekistan. I cant think of anyone else in the marvel universe that has actually done that. The reasons couldnt be any better, he's trying to save the future and make it a better place, simple and powerful. He's also shown that humans as well as mutants are willing to listen and follow him time and again. He's also one of the most powerful people, when powered, on the planet. The only problem with him being one of the pillars that i can see is that he might actually pull it off.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

The thing is..Cable is finished. And Stryfe is smarter or more interesting..if they need an opposite from a Summers so bad, he should be it.

[Christopher O]

No. War/conflict/survival seem to be big themes from MC.

Throwing in from the get-go an Optimus Prime on steroids (only nicer, cooler and better all around) as a war leader kinda takes away from the whole 'back-against-the-wall/end-of-all-things' vibe. :rolleyes:
Does it? It was never a problem in the past. I don't see why it would be now.



Obviously. I actually agreed to that. No way CC's pimping can ever be undone. But it can be partly ignored. Kinda like what the x-office is doing.

What are you going on about? What is the X-Office ignoring?

[Brian M.]

The thing is..Cable is finished. And Stryfe is smarter or more interesting..if they need an opposite from a Summers so bad, he should be it.

Except there isn't that emotional connection. Xavier and Magneto were best friends, tore apart. Cyclops/Cable works b/c it's father/son. Cyclops and clone-of-dead-son doesn't exactly kick.

[Bart Simpson]

I'd like to see Cyclops and Jean as the pillars. NOT on the same side. But at odds with 2 very different views on the world.

[Brian M.]

I'd like to see Cyclops and Jean as the pillars. NOT on the same side. But at odds with 2 very different views on the world.

That'd be interesting, personally I'd rather she be by his side.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

I say Emma b/c she's realistic that humans are always going to hate mutants. She's isn't advocating mutant terrorism, but she isn't trying to get mutants to hide themselves like Xavier.


As sad as Apocalypse was (bad writing) he's always had a 'strongest of the fittest' attitude, what Cassandra Nova was trying to prevent.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Does it? It was never a problem in the past. I don't see why it would be now.

What are you going on about? What is the X-Office ignoring?

Oh dear, I'll say this one last thing I'll say on the Storm angle of said discussion before this gets ugly.

Claremont's Storm is the best person for ANY job. Everyone else's isn't quite the goddess-queen of the universe.

Thus the whole 'her not shamelessly being pimped 24/7 in a book that wasn't written by CC' for the past, what, 15 YEARS? Hell, I could also go on about no one has any idea of what to do with the character other than being defined by her feats for years.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this with any degree of malice. I'm actually rather pissed the character was basically ruined for 95% of the writers out there.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I say Emma b/c she's realistic that humans are always going to hate mutants. She's isn't advocating mutant terrorism, but she isn't trying to get mutants to hide themselves like Xavier.

I'll be the first to admit Ems has more of an actual plan than Cyke (I'm still laughing my ass off at the notion of him being a school principal/administrator), but the street cred issue still overrides any good idea she might have at this moment in time.

[Slung]

Its obvious that the new pillars of the X-World are Jean Grey and Madelyne Prior. Its been building to this crescendo for years...

Or at least it should be.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Please tell me that comment has nothing to do with the current Ultimate arc and Kirkman's take on the Phoenix.

[Slung]

Please tell me that comment has nothing to do with the current Ultimate arc and Kirkman's take on the Pheonix.

Oh, obviously not.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Was obviously kidding. :p

And somewhat poking fun at the creepy factor surrounding those two found in 616, I guess.

But then again, Sinister. So creepy's fair game, I suppose.

[Slant]

But then again, Sinister. Soi creepy's fair game, I suppose.
Yeah, the whole "Prime DNA" thing is just a cover up, really. An excuse to stalk Cyclops.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Yeah, the whole "Prime DNA" thing is just a cover up, really. An excuse to stalk Cyclops.

They really should have a showdown with Cyke just losing it and going 'WTF is up with that creepy stalker s**t, you psycho???'

[Slung]

Oh dear, I'll say this one last thing I'll say on the Storm angle of said discussion before this gets ugly.

Claremont's Storm is the best person for ANY job. Everyone else's isn't quite the goddess-queen of the universe.

Thus the whole 'her not shamelessly being pimped 24/7 in a book that wasn't written by CC' for the past, what, 15 YEARS? Hell, I could also go on about no one has any idea of what to do with the character other than being defined by her feats for years.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this with any degree of malice. I'm actually rather pissed the character was basically ruined for 95% of the writers out there.

Huh, I actually thought that 80's Storm was a great character and written really well. She wasn't anywhere near the extreme you're trying to paint. She was probably the main character of the book a good bit of time, but that wasn't a bad thing. I like pre-90's Claremont Storm. She was a fully fleshed-out character and not the cardboard cutout she became in most of the 90's.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Huh, I actually thought that 80's Storm was a great character and written really well. She wasn't anywhere near the extreme you're trying to paint.

GODDESS OF THUNDER.

Nuff' said. Go find me instances of more extreme/shameless pet character worship. I'll wait.


She was a fully fleshed-out character and not the cardboard cutout she became in most of the 90's.

Because writers have no idea what to do with her after Claremont's done about *everything* with her.

[Slung]

GODDESS OF THUNDER.

Nuff' said. Go find me instances of more extreme/shameless pet character worship. I'll wait.

Morrison's Emma. That was easy. I don't think Claremont ever killed anyone off just to shove Ororo more in the spotlight.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Morrison's Emma. That was easy. I don't think Claremont ever killed anyone off just to shove Ororo more in the spotlight.

The original DPS??? Maddie? UXM 201???

The hell?? How could you possibly miss those?

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Yea Goddess of Thunder that couldn't control a frickin' hurricane

wtf was that?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Given up trying to figure it all waaayyy back.

[Slung]

The original DPS??? Maddie? UXM 201???

The hell?? How could you possibly miss those?

How the hell was DPS about pimping up Storm? It was an editorially mandated death. It had NOTHING to do with Storm.

Or how was Maddy about pimping up Storm?
Maddy died because editorial mandated Jean's resurrection. It didn't effect Storm at all.

And NO ONE died in UXM 201!
Claremont was going a different direction with the title - you know, a book about evolution - and decided to do something different with Scott and Storm. Jeesh.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

You said he never killed anyone to pimp Storm.

I told you he tried to shove a character out of the book THREE TIMES. Not so subtly at that.

Kinda the same principle.

And just for the record, getting married in like ONE WEEK and getting beaten up by a depowered enemy is kinda beyond objective evolution/character development. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm off.

[Slung]

You said he never killed anyone to pimp Storm.

I told you he tried to shove a character out of the book THREE TIMES.

Kinda the same principle.

And just for the record, getting married in like ONE WEEK and getting beaten up by a depowered enemy is kinda beyond objective evolution/character development. :rolleyes:

But he didn't shove a character out of the book for Storm. He did it for character growth for all the characters. It made sense for Scott to leave after DPS. It made sense for Scott to take a break after he got married. And Cyclops was still a character that we followed around - even if he wasn't leading the team. Some of Scott's best character moments were when he was taking a break from the X-Men.

[Christopher O]

Claremont's Storm is the best person for ANY job. Everyone else's isn't quite the goddess-queen of the universe.
How is that any different from most portrayals of Wolverine, Xavier, or Cable? Is it just because she's a woman? Or is it more personal for you because she beat your favorite character in combat?

Thus the whole 'her not shamelessly being pimped 24/7 in a book that wasn't written by CC' for the past, what, 15 YEARS? Hell, I could also go on about no one has any idea of what to do with the character other than being defined by her feats for years.
Lots of things are currently being done with the character. I don't necessarily care for some of them, but they're at least trying to put the character in new situations--and those go beyond just feats.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this with any degree of malice. I'm actually rather pissed the character was basically ruined for 95% of the writers out there.
Basically ruined for 95% of the writers? Did you do a study? Seriously, I think it comes down to you not liking the character and trying to hide that fact behind something else. It's very transparent. Just come out and say what you mean. You're allowed to dislike characters.

[Slung]

How is that any different from most portrayals of Wolverine, Xavier, or Cable? Is it just because she's a woman? Or is it more personal for you because she beat your favorite character in combat?


Lots of things are currently being done with the character. I don't necessarily care for some of them, but they're at least trying to put the character in new situations--and those go beyond just feats.


Basically ruined for 95% of the writers? Did you do a study? Seriously, I think it comes down to you not liking the character and trying to hide that fact behind something else. It's very transparent. Just come out and say what you mean. You're allowed to dislike characters.
Oh, good. A real Storm fan is here.

- Chris, I tried to hold the fort until you arrived. Now, you can defend Ororo, and I can go back to championing Jean.

[Christopher O]

Oh, good. A real Storm fan is here.

- Chris, I tried to hold the fort until you arrived. Now, you can defend Ororo, and I can go back to championing Jean.
LOL
Well, I'd hate for this to turn into a "versus" thread because of me. I think there's potential for actual conversation in this thread.

[Brian M.]

LOL
Well, I'd hate for this to turn into a "versus" thread because of me. I think there's potential for actual conversation in this thread.

Yea this wasn't meant to be a "versus" thread at all.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

But he didn't shove a character out of the book for Storm. He did it for character growth for all the characters. It made sense for Scott to leave after DPS. It made sense for Scott to take a break after he got married. And Cyclops was still a character that we followed around - even if he wasn't leading the team. Some of Scott's best character moments were when he was taking a break from the X-Men.

The point rather had to do with how CC wanted Cyke out of the book.

Which he totally did. We're not actually kidding ourselves over *that*, are we??

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

How is that any different from most portrayals of Wolverine, Xavier, or Cable?

It's not.

Oh, and you forgot Magneto to the list. Trust me on this one, I'm no big fan of solo Wolvie and Cable.

Is it just because she's a woman?

See above.

Or is it more personal for you because she beat your favorite character in combat?

The point rather was how it was more personal for her pimp.

Lots of things are currently being done with the character. I don't necessarily care for some of them, but they're at least trying to put the character in new situations--and those go beyond just feats.

It's called a salvage effort. Or dumbing her down in BP. I'd chalk the later up to 'deconstruction gone wrong', but that would be giving Hudlin too much credit, eh.


Basically ruined for 95% of the writers? Did you do a study?

Wait, weren't you the one commenting on her cliched/token/stereotype 90s persona? :confused:

Seriously, I think it comes down to you not liking the character and trying to hide that fact behind something else. It's very transparent. Just come out and say what you mean. You're allowed to dislike characters.

Wait, I've been hiding the fact that I hate with a rare passion what Claremont did to 'Ro in the late 80s??? Look at that thingy under my nick. I'm not exactly being subtle. :confused:

[Christopher O]

It's not.

Oh, and you forgot Magneto to the list. Trust me on this one, I'm no big fan of solo Wolvie and Cable.
What about characters like Spider-Man, Captain America, and Iron Man? They're all quite capable. How do you feel about them? How do you gauge this sort of thing?


The point rather was how it was more personal for her pimp.Yes, I'm sure Claremont has a dart board with Cyclops's face on it.


It's called a salvage effort. Or dumbing her down in BP. I'd chalk the later up to 'deconstruction gone wrong', but that would be giving Hudlin too much credit, eh.
So because they tried something new with the character, it's a salvage effort? I'll agree that Storm was pretty stale under Claremont, when they came in and shifted her over to Black Panther. However, being stale and being ruined are two entirely different things.

Wait, weren't you the one commenting on her cliched/token/stereotype 90s persona? :confused:
Actually, no, I wasn't. You're the one ranting about how she was ruined for 95% of writers--as if you could even know such a thing.


Wait, I've been hiding the fact that I hate with a rare passion what Claremont did to 'Ro in the late 80s??? Look at that thingy under my nick. I'm not exactly being subtle.
No, you're not being subtle. The whole "I'm a Cyclops fan therefore I must hate Storm" bit is nothing new around here. I just don't see the point of coming in this thread and saying Storm doesn't have resonance or wouldn't work thematically, when you basically meant that you just don't like her. If you really want to discuss theme and resonance, then, by all means, let's. It just doesn't seem that way.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Except there isn't that emotional connection. Xavier and Magneto were best friends, tore apart. Cyclops/Cable works b/c it's father/son. Cyclops and clone-of-dead-son doesn't exactly kick.

Stryfe got more in Cyclops head than anyone in history except Sinister during X-Cutioner's Song. Cable and Cyclops whole relationship came after he returned in X-Force #25. It was weak back then and it remains weak to this day.

[Brian M.]

Stryfe got more in Cyclops head than anyone in history except Sinister during X-Cutioner's Song. Cable and Cyclops whole relationship came after he returned in X-Force #25. It was weak back then and it remains weak to this day.

Well that's personal opinion. Stryfe only got into his head b/c he actually believed he wasn't the clone. Cyclops was so upset over it b/c he believed that his son turned evil b/c of his decision to save him. That kinda went mute when he found out later he was just a clone.

As for the Cyclops/Cable's relationship, it's gotta stronger since then, Uncanny #310 was a good issue for them. The whole Search for Cyclops thing helped. Cable honoring his father by wearing the visor was a nice gesture. Their relationship is not worse then your Lord and Savior Magneto.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

That was the beauty of the storyline. Stryfe's whole existence was runined because of the decisions that Cyclops made. He's the reason why Apocalypse tried to mold him in his image and make him his heir. He's why he came from the future in the first place, along with Jean. He owed them for screwing his life from the day he was created.

What Magneto has to do with Cable, Stryfe, or Cyclops is beyond me though? The thing is...Cyclops trying to take Xavier's place over a Storm is rather hilarious to me.

[Brian M.]

That was the beauty of the storyline. Stryfe's whole existence was runined because of the decisions that Cyclops made. He's the reason why Apocalypse tried to mold him in his image and make him his heir. He's why he came from the future in the first place, along with Jean. He owed them for screwing his life from the day he was created.

What Magneto has to do with Cable, Stryfe, or Cyclops is beyond me though? The thing is...Cyclops trying to take Xavier's place over a Storm is rather hilarious to me.

How did Cyclops sending him to the future screw up his life? That's what didn't make sense, that surely the Askani would have told him of the reason of Cyclops' decision. Cable makes more sense then Stryfe. As for what Magneto has to do w/ it, your disqualifing Cyclops based on his relationship w/ his kids, yet see no such limitation for Magneto.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I'm DQ'ing Cyclops because Cable and Scott convesations have always SUCKED. From day 1. Especially after they found out they were connected. Cable make more sense than Stryfe? If not for Stryfe being cloned, Cable would of been finished from the start.

[Brian M.]

I'm DQ'ing Cyclops because Cable and Scott convesations have always SUCKED. From day 1. Especially after they found out they were connected. Cable make more sense than Stryfe? If not for Stryfe being cloned, Cable would of been finished from the start.

Your point?

I don't know why I try even having a conversation w/ someone like you.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Another insult, Brian? LOL. Still doesn't change the fact that Stryfe is smarter, more powerful, and much more interesting than either Scott or Nathan Summers.

[Christopher O]

Another insult, Brian? LOL. Still doesn't change the fact that Stryfe is smarter, more powerful, and much more interesting than either Scott or Nathan Summers.
That explains why he's been so prominent these last several years. Oh, wait...

[Erik Lehnsherr]

He's a villian that got misused like no one I've ever seen. At his best, he was a nice introspective villian from the future with good motivations and unlike Cable, didn't need a "Nate Grey" induced power up.

[Slant]

Stryfe, Cable, and Nate Grey just seems like one big headache.

Cable's fine, but the rest, ugh.

[Bart Simpson]

Another insult, Brian? LOL. Still doesn't change the fact that Stryfe is smarter, more powerful, and much more interesting than either Scott or Nathan Summers.

Smarter or more powerful is debateable. More interesting? hell no.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Stryfe, Cable, and Nate Grey just seems like one big headache.

Cable's fine, but the rest, ugh.

Headache or not, Nate's comeback is imminant while Cable's future is finally in jeopardy. Thank goodness.

More interesting? hell no.

X-Cutioner Song themed Stryfe books>>>anything Cable related. Even when they tried to remake Cable into some sympathetic character instead of a military guru from the future. Stryfe was the better read.

[Christopher O]

Headache or not, Nate's comeback is imminant while Cable's future is finally in jeopardy. Thank goodness.
Which totally explains Quesada's comment about Cable being a character on the rise.

[Bart Simpson]

Headache or not, Nate's comeback is imminant while Cable's future is finally in jeopardy. Thank goodness.



X-Cutioner Song themed Stryfe books>>>anything Cable related. Even when they tried to remake Cable into some sympathetic character instead of a military guru from the future. Stryfe was the better read.

Who said Nate's come back was immenient? That little voice in your head? Please learn to seperate day dreams from reality. Make Carey even said he's only going to be mentioned in the Endangered Species Back Up.

Cable's future, on the other hand, is not in jeopardy at all. It's already been confirmed that he will be back, probably as the Messiah.

[Brian M.]

I've not insulted you once.

[Anna]

I'm a big Exodus fan.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I've not insulted you once.

Your point?

I don't know why I try even having a conversation w/ someone like you.

:p Uh oh.

Who said Nate's come back was immenient? That little voice in your head? Please learn to seperate day dreams from reality. Make Carey even said he's only going to be mentioned in the Endangered Species Back Up.

Cable's future, on the other hand, is not in jeopardy at all. It's already been confirmed that he will be back, probably as the Messiah.

Another of your insulting friends wants more answers too so I'll give them like I always do. In the last X-Position, Carey said 4 out of 9 listed characters were on their way back and BY GOD..X-Factor #22 mentions a way to bring back Nate Grey...I wonder what that means?

Cable can solve the mutant extinction problem? That's as unbelievable as anything mentioned in the last years. He's too stupid, not powerful enough, and he doesn't have the methods to be some "Messiah" to bring mutants back to prosperity. He's just Cable. A guy that was getting punked out by Sunfire and Gambit of all people recently. Let him come back but he's not going over Exodus or Sinister. I guarantee it.

[valechan]

Magneto/Xavier still works... if anything Emma/Kitty should happen :p

I don't get Storm/Apocalypse... why would they be paired? It's a very weird pairing

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

What about characters like Spider-Man, Captain America, and Iron Man? They're all quite capable. How do you feel about them? How do you gauge this sort of thing?

I'd go on a rant about how quasi-Omega potential, indomitable will, beating up Calypso, that semi-fake Mjolnir and Brood B.S. kinda tip the balance but that would make me an unabashed hater, now wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

I give up. You're right. Had Storm been written by a 14 years old girl, no one in their right mind would scoff/laugh at the character and refer to it as an angry left-wing feminist delusional wet dream. Ever. Obviously. Mea Culpa.


Yes, I'm sure Claremont has a dart board with Cyclops's face on it.

Go on a rant about how Claremont actually *likes* Cyke. I double dare you. :D

[Brian M.]

Tell me again where the insult is in that?

[Brian M.]

Magneto/Xavier still works... if anything Emma/Kitty should happen :p

I don't get Storm/Apocalypse... why would they be paired? It's a very weird pairing

If Cyclops isn't suitable for the Xavier archtype and Jean is still dead, then Storm is the next logical choice, imo, to step into the shoes. Apocalypse b/c he has a vision for the mutant world, it's a complete 180 from what the X-Men want, but it's still a vision. So if your ognna set up new 'Xavier/Magneto' types, those two fit.

[Bart Simpson]

[/B]

:p Uh oh.



Another of your insulting friends wants more answers too so I'll give them like I always do. In the last X-Position, Carey said 4 out of 9 listed characters were on their way back and BY GOD..X-Factor #22 mentions a way to bring back Nate Grey...I wonder what that means?

Cable can solve the mutant extinction problem? That's as unbelievable as anything mentioned in the last years. He's too stupid, not powerful enough, and he doesn't have the methods to be some "Messiah" to bring mutants back to prosperity. He's just Cable. A guy that was getting punked out by Sunfire and Gambit of all people recently. Let him come back but he's not going over Exodus or Sinister. I guarantee it.

Carey also said that Nate Grey would ONLY be mentioned in the Endangered Species back up. So that leaves the possibility of the other 8 characters being the 4 that Carey says are on their way back.

Cable and Nate have the same powers. I doubt they are going to bring 2 Nates back. And we already know Cable is going to come back.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Carey said Nate would be mentioned. Didn't mention his fate. It wasn't definite. It was a open field comment. With the DB comment, something could be in the works.

BTW, Cable coming back is gonna SUCK though. Yuck. Good thing Sinister and Exodus will be good distractions from the Cable and Cyclops pushes.

[valechan]

If Cyclops isn't suitable for the Xavier archtype and Jean is still dead, then Storm is the next logical choice, imo, to step into the shoes. Apocalypse b/c he has a vision for the mutant world, it's a complete 180 from what the X-Men want, but it's still a vision. So if your ognna set up new 'Xavier/Magneto' types, those two fit.

Yes but Xavier and Magneto have a past, Ororo and En Sabah Nur do not. If anything I'd choose Storm/Shadow King, it sounds far more plausible. Also, I doubt Ororo would want to continue Xavier's ways, she clearly stated that Xavier's job was to teach the next generation of mutants, to forge their world, while hers was to protect the world they already have. In essence, Xavier's a dreamer, Ororo's a hero, a fighter.

[jarrod]

Yes but Xavier and Magneto have a past, Ororo and En Sabah Nur do not.
Actually, didn't Storm have an encounter with Apocalypse (or his minions) as a child in Cairo? Might be easy enough to build up some sort of backstory, as retconned backstories seem all the rage in Xbooks today. Just let Loeb, Way or Brubaker handle it. ;)

[Mikl C]

Storm had Apocalypse's BABY!!!
When she was ELEVEN!!!

[valechan]

It was in the Ororo Before the Storm mini wasn't it? I didn't read it, it sounded like far too much crap and I am the ultimate Storm fan ever...

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

...Why a past/bond is such a necessity?

I didn't quite get the vibe Cyke/Sinister feud would have anything to do with their past...?

From what little we do know, it kinda seems like Cyke's actions in MC will most likely be a knee-jerk reaction to whatever Sinister's pulling rather than him fancying himself a dreamer/prophet/visionary out of the blue.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

It was in the Ororo Before the Storm mini wasn't it? I didn't read it, it sounded like far too much crap and I am the ultimate Storm fan ever...

Why, hello, Sebita. *waves* :D :D :D

[valechan]

*waves back* hiya Darth

I think the past history is extremely necessary to create such pivotal roles. Who would you hate most, a guy that just pops into the scene or a guy you've been hating for 20 years?

And btw, I think Messiah Complex is more about Cable/Sinister than the old Summers ... I mean, Cable was brought up to be a Messiah in his own time, wasn't hi.

[jarrod]

Storm had Apocalypse's BABY!!!
When she was ELEVEN!!!
She's Blink and Chamber's momma? :eek:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I think the past history is extremely necessary to create such pivotal roles. Who would you hate most, a guy that just pops into the scene or a guy you've been hating for 20 years?

I meant a specific history between the two.

ANY history for either is obviously a prereq. Just not sure it *has* to be with each other.


And btw, I think Messiah Complex is more about Cable/Sinister than the old Summers ... I mean, Cable was brought up to be a Messiah in his own time, wasn't hi.

Well, I don't think a lot of people think Cyke will gun for the Messiah job.

More likely the aloof pissed off nutjob going hardcore and waving a flag because he has to rather than an actual messiah.

[Mikl C]

She's Blink and Chamber's momma? :eek:

and Bishop's. But Bishop is his own poppa.
ALL BLACK CHARACTERS ARE RELATED!

[jarrod]

and Bishop's. But Bishop is his own poppa.
ALL BLACK CHARACTERS ARE RELATED!
Wait, I thought Storm got Monet preggers with Bishop?

[Mikl C]

Oh yeh. I forget about her powerful goddess sperm. She should impregnate herself, too.

[Dagger]

Wait, I thought Storm got Monet preggers with Bishop?
Don't you read exiles? Monet is male in an alternate universe, and splooged on Storm's giney when T'tschalla wasn't looking.

[jarrod]

Oh yeh. I forget about her powerful goddess sperm. She should impregnate herself, too.
Well, trannie hermaphrodites really are the height of evolution... where else do you think Synch and Prodigy came from?


Don't you read exiles?
No thankfully. :D



Monet is male in an alternate universe, and splooged on Storm's giney when T'tschalla wasn't looking.
You sure it wasn't Saturnyne's Brororo guard? Storm slooged on her own giney?

[valechan]

Wouldn't it be great to have a villain spawned by two alternate reality versions of the same character? Think of it, "my mom and my dad are the same person, it's not my fault I'm evil!!"

[Dagger]

You sure it wasn't Saturnyne's Brororo guard? Storm slooged on her own giney?
Of course! It was leftovers from one of Callisto's tenticles, and she's really flexible!