I'm Man Enough To Say It!

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I like Leonard Cohen.

Especially his early stuff.

And the tribute album released the other year was one the best albums of that year (minus the track he actually sang on - Cohen and U2, the team up no one was askin for).

What would MAcabe And Mrs. Miller be without that soundtrack?

[Steven Grant]

Hey, I wasn't dissing "The Master Of Erotic Despair." Nobody's a bigger Leonard Cohen fan than I am. Want to hear me quote oodles of lyrics off the top of my head?

Though right now I'm listening to John Otway...

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

By the way, I'd say Cohen's good period ranges from "Songs Of Leonard Cohen" to "Songs Of Love and Hate" on the early end, through a fairly dismal middle period, and "Recent Songs" through "The Future" on the late end, followed by a couple tepid but pleasant albums. But "The Future" is not only easily Cohen's best album but one of the best albums anyone has made since they started recording music.

I really hate about 75% of the performances in the tribute movie/album, though.

- Grant

[bartl]

Hey, I wasn't dissing "The Master Of Erotic Despair." Nobody's a bigger Leonard Cohen fan than I am. Want to hear me quote oodles of lyrics off the top of my head?

Though right now I'm listening to John Otway...

Wasn't Otway one of Saddam Hussein's sons?

I am not ashamed (nor proud) to admit that I was in the second group in terms of Leonard Cohen.

[Steven Grant]

I am not ashamed (nor proud) to admit that I was in the second group in terms of Leonard Cohen.

Which group would that be?

"And then sweeping up the jokers that he left behind
you find he did not leave you very much
not even laughter
Like any dealer he was watching for the card
that is so high and wild
he'll never need to deal another..."

"Oh, I've looked into mirrors in
numberless places
and they all smiled back with their
troublesome faces
and the hands that they dealt me never
held any aces
and the horses never listen to me
at the races..."

"You say I took the name in vain
but I don't even know the name
and if I did, well, really, what's it to ya?
There's a blaze of light in every word
it doesn't matter what you heard
the holy or the broken hallelujah."

"Ring the bell that still can ring.
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack
a crack
in everything.
That's how the light gets in..."

"Yeah we're drinking and we're dancing
but there's nothing really happening
and the place is dead as Heaven on a Saturday night
And my very close companion
gets me fumbling gets me laughing
she's a hundred but she's wearing
something tight
and I lift my glass to the Awful Truth
which you can't reveal to the Ears of Youth
except to say it isn't worth a dime
And the whole damn place goes crazy twice
and it's once for the devil and it's once for Christ
but the Boss don't like these dizzy heights
we're busted in the blinding lights
of closing time"

How could anyone not love lyrics like those?

John Otway, by the way, did the best versions of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" and "The Green Green Grass Of Home" (even better than Roger Miller's impromptu Tonight Show version) as well as the sublime "Beware Of The Flowers (Coz I'm Sure They're Gonna Get You, Yeah)"...

- Grant

[bartl]

Which group would that be?
The second group you mentioned; the "who the hell is Leonard Cohen?" group.

[dancj]

I've heard of Leonard Cohen. My sister says people who like Nick Cave like Leonard Cohen so I really should give him a try some time.

At the moment all the name conjours up for me is a Mercury Rev lyric - "Stuck inside of Leonard Cohen's mind" which itself conjours up Being John Malkovitch-esque images... but I digress

[badMike]

In case people don't know, or want to know more, there's a documentary about Cohen that came out 2 years ago. I haven't seen it, though:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478197/

[Steven Grant]

It's not really a documentary. It's an interview with Cohen, which is fairly interesting, cut up and interspersed with an Australian tribute concert that, for the most part, isn't. Most of the acts made me want to beat my head against the wall, though it was nice to see people like Linda and Teddy Thompson and Julie Christensen. Even Nick Cave, in full lounge lizard mode, was pretty dull. But what can you say for a concert film where the best performance is by U2 (always loathed U2), and it's not even part of the concert?

- Grant

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

It's not really a documentary. It's an interview with Cohen, which is fairly interesting, cut up and interspersed with an Australian tribute concert that, for the most part, isn't. Most of the acts made me want to beat my head against the wall, though it was nice to see people like Linda and Teddy Thompson and Julie Christensen. Even Nick Cave, in full lounge lizard mode, was pretty dull. But what can you say for a concert film where the best performance is by U2 (always loathed U2), and it's not even part of the concert?

- Grant

Where as I think the album was fantastic, with plenty of artists hitting, and only two, maybe three misses.
The biggest miss of course being U2 - everything else is stripped down and raw, and then you get to the end, and it's U2 sounding as over produced and annoying as ever - they shouldn't have agreed to be apart of it (let alone asked to be) as it really does highlight all their faults as a band when compared to what just went before.

[mattx110]

It's not really a documentary. It's an interview with Cohen, which is fairly interesting, cut up and interspersed with an Australian tribute concert that, for the most part, isn't. Most of the acts made me want to beat my head against the wall, though it was nice to see people like Linda and Teddy Thompson and Julie Christensen. Even Nick Cave, in full lounge lizard mode, was pretty dull. But what can you say for a concert film where the best performance is by U2 (always loathed U2), and it's not even part of the concert?

- Grant

y'know what. if i hated you up till now (which i didn't but i'm being dramatic) i'd think you're wonderful now. good job listening to music.

[dancj]

The biggest miss of course being U2 - everything else is stripped down and raw, and then you get to the end, and it's U2 sounding as over produced and annoying as ever - they shouldn't have agreed to be apart of it (let alone asked to be) as it really does highlight all their faults as a band when compared to what just went before.
Isn't the point of tribute albums to hear bands doing their own versions of songs? I don't like U2 either, but if they covered a song in their own standard style then I'd have thought they're doing their job properly.

[Steven Grant]

Where as I think the album was fantastic, with plenty of artists hitting, and only two, maybe three misses.

I put the score the other way around, with two, maybe three, hits, and the rest misses. U2 at least had Cohen singing with them, but it's not my favorite version of the song...

- Grant

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Isn't the point of tribute albums to hear bands doing their own versions of songs? I don't like U2 either, but if they covered a song in their own standard style then I'd have thought they're doing their job properly.

It's just really shit, so shit you'd wish they'd tried and branched out a new style.

U2 at least had Cohen singing with them, but it's not my favorite version of the song...

And Violator Vs Badrock had Alan Moore writing, still didn't save it from the mess around it (and the very concept itself).
Cohens vocals just aren't suited to that type of production, but it might have been alright if Bono had just sat it out, but together... yuck.

(I'll actually have to go listen to it again to be able to say which acts I like, it's an album I normally have on when doing something else. Teddy Thompson is one of the good one's from memory, and there's a Martha Wainwright one I really like as well, and the Sisters Of Mercy is very good).

[Steven Grant]

Oh, man, I thought both the Wainwrights on that show were just appallingly bad... then there was that Aussie family folk group that sounded like some third rate act from Hootenanny... The Sisters Of Mercy didn't even make an impression on me...

- Grant

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Oh, man, I thought both the Wainwrights on that show were just appallingly bad... then there was that Aussie family folk group that sounded like some third rate act from Hootenanny... The Sisters Of Mercy didn't even make an impression on me...

- Grant

Which Aussie family group? I'm intrigued.

What next, you're going to be knocking Cocker?

[Steven Grant]

Which Cocker? Joe Cocker?

I've always thought Joe Cocker sucked...

- Grant

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Which Cocker? Joe Cocker?

I've always thought Joe Cocker sucked...

- Grant

No, the one who performed at the concert Jarvis Cocker, the best pop star ever (Who ironically, was too smart to want to keep being one), not the twat who ran around butchering Beatles songs.

Or did America only get Oasis and Blur, and miss out on the goodness of Pulp?

Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F39RS3I0D0Y) for the more popular song and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ukcPaOu804) for the much better song.

[Steven Grant]

Oh, right, Jarvis Cocker. He didn't make much impression on me at all. He was just there. I don't even remember the names of most of the people on that show, that's how little they impressed me.

- Grant

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Oh, right, Jarvis Cocker. He didn't make much impression on me at all. He was just there.

Heathen.

If he kept at it he'd be able to get on par, even pass, Cohen in the singer-songwriter stakes.

[dancj]

What next, you're going to be knocking Cocker?
But that would make him a Cocker knocker!

I'll get my coat.

Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F39RS3I0D0Y) for the more popular song and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ukcPaOu804) for the much better song.
Good songs both, but my favourite Pulp song would be the under-appreciated Something Changed (with honourable mentions for A Little Soul and Disco 2000)

Jarvis Cocker's solo album, Jarvis is also excellent.

[king_ghidra]

Whilst generally agreeing with you, i have to disagree on the general quality of the recent solo album.

That said, 'Fat Children' is a wonderful song : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXfs87baS4U

[dancj]

That said, 'Fat Children' is a wonderful song : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXfs87baS4U
The one that's grabbed me the most is "I Will Kill Again"