JLAvengers League: ragnarok_2012/Mike Smash! vs. Schornforce

[Sean Whitmore]

Welcome to the final match of the 2007 JLAvengers League! The League is a large-scale series of battles—a tournament—where posters draft teams and pit their teams against that of other posters, and you vote to decide who wins. When voting, please consider the strategies the players have written, rather than just the team's roster.

Each match takes place in a different locale from the Marvel or DC Universe. The teams begin 100 yards away from each other. Each character is depicted as they were in the JLA/Avengers mini series (with few exceptions), and the characters have to act in character (meaning that the heroes cannot kill if they aren't normally wont to do so)
If you have any questions about the strategies, please feel free to post these questions here, and the players will answer. The match will last twenty-four hours. After that time period, the player with the largest number of votes wins.

This battle will take place in the Superman's arctic Fortress of Solitude.

NOTE - For your vote to count, you must have a post count of no lower than fifty.

ragnarok_2012/Mike Smash!: Sinestro, Hulk, Felix Faust, Black Alice, Namor, Mary Marvel, Terrax

Schornforce: Martian Manhunter, Dr. Doom, Impulse, Agent Smith, Circe, Absorbing Man, Songbird

[Sean Whitmore]

ragnarok_2012/Mike Smash!'s strategy:

Immediate Action:

Sinestro forms a spherical force field around our team. This force field is electrified, shields our team from psychic attacks, and emits a powerful EMP blast. Although it’s debatable whether or not Kryptonian technology would be effected by an EMP blast, Songbird and Dr. Doom’s technology should be very vulnerable (if an EMP blast will take out Iron Man, it will take out Doom’s armor). Also, by prior ruling we know that Agent Smith will be taken out by an EMP blast. If Impulse or one of his speed force clones should hit the force field, he would almost certainly be electrocuted.

Black Alice steals the powers of Circe and the Absorbing Man.

Felix Faust will cast a major effect spell. This spell will not require a line of site, and there is nothing that J’Onn could reasonably do to hide from it. Felix is going to put all his energies into causing demonic fire to escape from the Martian Manhunter’s every pore and orifice until he explodes like that one guy in Big Trouble in Little China. This will take some time of course, though J’Onn would presumably have to deal with extraordinary pain for quite some time before he is finally killed. Anybody near the Martian Manhunter when the spell takes full effect will be hit by demonic fire.

Mary Marvel will remain on defense.

Terrax will fuse the machinery of the room we begin in.

Round 1:

Black Alice will turn Agent Smith, Circe, and the other players (excluding J’Onn and Dr. Doom) into dolphins. When asked about this by Mary Marvel, Black Alice will simply say “I like dolphins.”

Sinestro, maintaining the spherical force field, will encase the players in their own electrified force fields to provide them psi shielding as they exit the dome (the force field will let them in and out at will but will exclude everyone else).

Terrax will continue to fuse the machinery and focus his energies on Dr. Doom. Terrax and the Hulk will double team Doom. Although he has some minor magical ability, we think that the power cosmic and a being without an upper limit on his strength should be able to handle him. His armor should be disabled by the EMP blast, fused by the power cosmic, and to sum up….Doom is going down.

Namor will be very careful to avoid the demonic fire. If he is able to do so safely, he’s going to attack Songbird. He will close to grappling distance, punch her in the throat and fly her a safe distance away from the Martian Manhunter. We don’t expect Namor to kill her-just to knock her out until Circe gets around to turning her into a dolphin.

By this point, Felix should have caused the Martian Manhunter to erupt with demonic fire. If this is somehow thwarted, Sinestro will simply auto target him with his ring and spray him with ring-generated plasma until he is dead. Keep in mind that invisibility will not hide him from a power ring, and ring-generated beams can go around corners (it does not have to be a line-of-site shot).

Round 2:

This is mostly a mopping up action. Whoever is left will be killed or disabled.

Impulse might have somehow avoided making contact with one of the electrified force fields, but Black Alice would most likely have been able to convert one of his speed force clones into an animal. If that wasn’t enough to send him into a coma, then Terrax the Tamer will murder the fastest dolphin alive.

And it might also be worth noting that there is no optical effect which will tell Impulse that the force fields are electrified. He will only find this out when he, one of his speed force clones or someone else touches it and is electrocuted.

[Sean Whitmore]

Schornforce's strategy:

Phase One (immediately upon arrival):

Doom creates a smokescreen via tech and/or magic. Nothing major—just enough to obscure our team.

Circe charges her hand with magickal energy. Absorbing Man touches and absorbs it as Circe grabs Songbird and teleports as far away from the opposition as possible.

Creel will cover our team by firing blasts of magical energy at the enemy.

Doom grabs Smith and teleports away as well (someplace difficult for our opponents to detect).

J’onn, under cover of the smokescreen, shrinks to the size of an insect and flies at superspeed to our adversaries. He fights any telepathic attacks against him, phases through any shields and with his small size and amazing speed, avoids any fires. He hits Faust hard, to knock the wacky wizard out and goes to Black Alice. He flies into her ear and telepathically forces her to relinquish any magic she stole from our team. Then he commands her to sleep for the rest of the battle. If need be, he hides out in her ear until he’s free to attack again. If our magic is untouched, he just makes her go to sleep.

Impulse first speeds Circe and Songbird away if Circe’s magic was stolen by Black Alice then runs away at superspeed, ending up with Doom and Smith. Bart creates an Impulse clone which hops back in time before the battle began, to search for the Phantom Zone projector and bring it back to Bart, Smith, and Doom.

Phase Two:

J’onn waits for an appropriate moment to fly into Sinestro’s ear and try telepathic hoodoo on the reddish ring wrangler. J’onn may or may not win, but he should provide significant distraction.

Songbird creates constructs galore for the rest of the battle and sends them to engage our opponents. Bart creates several clones and has them free the interstellar zoo then join Songbird’s constructs in battle. Creel leads the clones and constructs against our foes. If Bart’s clones are destroyed and he goes into shock, Smith turns Bart into an Impulsmith, hopefully canceling any debilitation. Doom teleports to our adversaries, nabs one, and teleports them back to Smith who immediately tries to transform them. Bart and any successfully transformed Smiths are on hand to help out too. Doom would start with Namor, then Sinestro, KO’ed Faust, Mary Marvel, and finally unconscious Alice. He’d teleport in at random times and behind his target. If there’s any impediment to his goal, he teleports away again and tries later.

If Circe’s power was stolen, she should have it back by now. She transforms the aliens released from the zoo into creatures she controls and sends them to assist the constructs, clones, and Creel. Then, she works on transforming Hulk and Terrax. It’s highly debatable whether or not she can succeed, but she at least makes the attempt to turn them into something harmless. Barring that, she tries weakening them. If that fails, she’ll send powerful eldritch blasts from seemingly nowhere at them.

Phase Three:

If Sinestro was transformed into a Smith, J’onn now exits his ear and shapeshifts into one of our transformed foes (pre-Smithification ™, of course). When our opposition is winnowed as much as possible, he and Doom pretend to fight and Doom teleports J’onn to the other team and teleports back, feigning defeat-- leaving J’onn with what remains of our opposition. Once that is completed, Doom releases the Phantom Zone denizens one by one, who while dazed upon release, are immediately transformed by Smith and sent to the battle.

It should now be Terrax and Hulk against multiple Smiths, a spying J’onn (who everyone on our team knows is on our side), and the rest of our army. J’onn pries at Hulk and Terrax telepathically. Doom now joins Circe in a magical assault. If they can’t transform/weaken the opponents, Circe continues the eldritch blasts and Doom works on teleporting Terrax’s axe away. The Smith Army join the continuing assault by Creel and the transformed zoo, constructs, and clones. I think eventually all these factors can bring down even our MOST worthy of foes, the (nearly) infallible team of Mike Smash! and Ragnarok.

Contingencies:

If Creel cannot absorb the magical energy, he becomes Doom’s smokescreen and spreads out, obscuring our opponents’ vision as best as possible while screaming to try and keep them from using super-hearing effectively. When the constructs arrive, he absorbs some Kryptonian metal from the battlesuit Clark keeps in the fortress and leads the new army into battle.

If either Circe/Songbird or Doom/Smith/Impulse is found, they teleport/speed away to a different location and continue the plan.

If teleportation is disabled in the beginning, then Bart creates clones under the smokescreen to speed Circe/Songbird and Doom/Smith away.

If any Superman robots get in our way, Doom tries to control them, failing that, they’re sent to the Phantom Zone. If they attack Circe, she teleports them into the opposing team.

[ragnarok_2012]

Just glancing through his strategy at the moment.

Silly question, though: does the Martian Manhunter have the power to shrink to ant size?

[Sean Whitmore]

Offhand, I can't think of a time when he has.

He HAS, however, grown to great heights. So shrinking is probably within the realm of possibility.


SEAN

[ragnarok_2012]

Offhand, I can't think of a time when he has.

He HAS, however, grown to great heights. So shrinking is probably within the realm of possibility.


SEAN

J'Onn is the swiss army knife of DC characters.

Around how large did J'Onn get, anyway?

[Schornforce]

I never said 'ant' I said 'insect.'

:p

Anyhow, I didn't specify, because I wasn't certain if I could find a scan or anything. I do know he can shapeshift to skyscraper size or larger and also know for a fact that he's been a small cat before.

Also, IIRC, Plastic Man has become bug-sized before and I figure anything shapeshifting-wise Plas can do, J'onn should be able to do.

Great strat, you guys. Several surprises. This will be close. I just hope lots of people vote.

Now, I ask a similar question of Sinestro. He seemst to be putting a lot of very specific elements into a single shield designed to house the entire team. Making it sturdy enough to withstand attack, making it large enough to house the team, making it electrified, somehow rigging it to produce a powerful EMP, making it Psi-proof, AND making it magic-proof.

Has Sinestro produced EMPs on the level you're suggesting before? For that matter have they made electricity in their plasma constructs? Especially the Qwardian ring which is different from GL rings.

It seems to me that Sinestro's spreading his substantial willpower awfully thin and in the time it takes to set up so many measures, J'onn will have gotten through.

[Schornforce]

J'Onn is the swiss army knife of DC characters.

Around how large did J'Onn get, anyway?

IIRC, J'onn got to be taller than a typical skyscraper or so. As the Burning Martian, he was HUGE. Also, IIRC, in his Ostrander/Mandrake(?) series, one of his identities/shapeshifting dealies was a giant Japanese robot thing that towered over the buildings.

[Sean Whitmore]

Also, IIRC, in his Ostrander/Mandrake(?) series, one of his identities/shapeshifting dealies was a giant Japanese robot thing that towered over the buildings.

Ha! Good memory.

What a goofy book that was. Fun, though.


SEAN

[ragnarok_2012]

I never said 'ant' I said 'insect.'

:p


Duly noted :)



Anyhow, I didn't specify, because I wasn't certain if I could find a scan or anything. I do know he can shapeshift to skyscraper size or larger and also know for a fact that he's been a small cat before.

Also, IIRC, Plastic Man has become bug-sized before and I figure anything shapeshifting-wise Plas can do, J'onn should be able to do.


Fair enough.

I just feel really sad for Ray Palmer now.

I mean, the one thing he could do well.....and it's not even unique.

He just seems so....Aquaman-ey now.....



Great strat, you guys. Several surprises. This will be close. I just hope lots of people vote.


Thanks!



Now, I ask a similar question of Sinestro. He seemst to be putting a lot of very specific elements into a single shield designed to house the entire team. Making it sturdy enough to withstand attack, making it large enough to house the team, making it electrified, somehow rigging it to produce a powerful EMP, making it Psi-proof, AND making it magic-proof.


I don't recall saying he was specifically making it magic proof. I mean, sure, it's gonna withstand a force blast whether it's from a bomb, telekinesis or a magical bolt of energy.



Has Sinestro produced EMPs on the level you're suggesting before? For that matter have they made electricity in their plasma constructs? Especially the Qwardian ring which is different from GL rings.


Yellow power rings are roughly analogous to green power rings. They've got AI's in them, and to my knowledge they are capable of the same feats.

And a power ring is capable of doing much more than make simple constructs.

According to wikipedia, power rings have the ability to generate radiation (including kryptonite radiation). It's not that big a jump to assume that Sinestro can generate a powerful electromagnetic pulse that hits every nook and cranny of the Fortress.



It seems to me that Sinestro's spreading his substantial willpower awfully thin and in the time it takes to set up so many measures, J'onn will have gotten through.

I guess that's up to the voters, really.

In the latest Sinestro Corps (the latest that I've read, anyway), a yellow power ring user and a green lantern both construct and use sniper rifles to shoot at each other from interplanetary distances.

The green lantern is shown actually constructing the rifle, piece by piece.

I see how you could see it as multitasking. From my POV, what Sinestro is doing is making a powerful force field and generating an EMP.

[ragnarok_2012]

I was so expecting you to try to make Agent Smith clones of everybody in the Bottled City of Kandor.

[Mike Smash!]

Now, I ask a similar question of Sinestro. He seemst to be putting a lot of very specific elements into a single shield designed to house the entire team. Making it sturdy enough to withstand attack, making it large enough to house the team, making it electrified, somehow rigging it to produce a powerful EMP, making it Psi-proof, AND making it magic-proof.

Has Sinestro produced EMPs on the level you're suggesting before? For that matter have they made electricity in their plasma constructs? Especially the Qwardian ring which is different from GL rings.

A Qwardian ring is shown quite capable of doing everything a GL ring can do. They can replicate any sort of energy and have in the past from fire to magnetism. An EMP would be simply work for Sinestro as he's one of the best. And one effect he only has to generate for a second and the others should be an easy maintanance multi-task for him.


It seems to me that Sinestro's spreading his substantial willpower awfully thin and in the time it takes to set up so many measures, J'onn will have gotten through.The EMP would take about a second to pull off and the other is just maintaining the field. Sinestro has multi-tasked in the past.

[Schornforce]

Yeah, poor Ray, at least J'onn and Plas can't go microscopic.

...


...yet.

As for Sinestro, I don't doubt that he could do it, I just doubt he could do all that before we teleport/speed away or J'onn gets through the shield.

It just seems to be another 'let's let the voters decide' thing. I know Sinestro's badass and all and one of the best, but most of our teams are the best there is at whatever it is they do. Sinestro may get things hopping, but I think most of my team will be gone and therefore avoid the EMP.

Oh and in a slightly OT thing, kryptonite radiation can ONLY be made if the ring slinger knows the precise makeup of kryptonite. Yeah, it can be done, but it needs to be done with precision.

As for the EMP, it was never specified in the original strat that it was sent throughout the entire fortress. That may make a difference.

How far does Terrax's fusion power reach? Is it issued by blasts? Physical contact? The axe? An aura? An area effect? Wikipedia is, as always, delightfully vague.

[Sean Whitmore]

I was so expecting you to try to make Agent Smith clones of everybody in the Bottled City of Kandor.

That woulda been awesome!


SEAN

[Schornforce]

I agree. I forgot the Bottle City was one of the resources or else I might have used it. ;)

[ragnarok_2012]

Yeah, poor Ray, at least J'onn and Plas can't go microscopic.

...


...yet.

As for Sinestro, I don't doubt that he could do it, I just doubt he could do all that before we teleport/speed away or J'onn gets through the shield.

It just seems to be another 'let's let the voters decide' thing. I know Sinestro's badass and all and one of the best, but most of our team members (on both sides) are the best there is at whatever it is they do. Sinestro may get things hopping, but I think most of my team will be gone and therefore avoid the EMP.

How far does Terrax's fusion power reach? Is it issued by blasts? Physical contact? The axe? An aura? An area effect? Wikipedia is, as always, delightfully vague.

You do realize that an electromagnetic pulse would travel at the speed of light, and would cover a much larger distance than the room they were currently occupying, right?

Using movie science to back up comic book science, the pinch in Ocean's Eleven took out Las Vegas. :)

[Schornforce]

But would it pass through Kryptonian walls and things?

Kryptonians have no need for puny Earth materials!

Out of curiosity, what if we were in mid-teleport when the EMP goes off? Theoretically it could miss us then. It's HIGHLY unlikely, but just a thought.

Doom's armor is protected by magic. Faust's earlier EMP strike was magical. Sinestro's isn't. I'm not convinced it'd get through his usual magical protections.

I never saw Ocean's 11. Any good?

[ragnarok_2012]

How far does Terrax's fusion power reach? Is it issued by blasts? Physical contact? The axe? An aura? An area effect? Wikipedia is, as always, delightfully vague.

Terrax fused Dr. Doom's armor in a Byrne era issue of the Fantastic Four.

He had the power cosmic, but no axe at the time.

As for an upper limit on distance: no clue. He's got the power cosmic, so I would assume he could fuse technology from a goodly distance of course.

I just don't know how far.

[Schornforce]

Oh, here's giant-sized burning Martian J'onn vs. Plas.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/Schornforce/Jla89.jpg

Does Terrax have to know where the tech is? Or does he go "All tech fused now. Now off I go to Disneyland!" and that's all she wrote?

Any examples?

I'm not big on Marvel, but most of the Silver Surfer things I've been reading (old Kirby/Stan Lee) had him blasting things to transform them, blow them up, etc.

[ragnarok_2012]

But would it pass through Kryptonian walls and things?

Kryptonians have no need for puny Earth materials!

Out of curiosity, what if we were in mid-teleport when the EMP goes off? Theoretically it could miss us then. It's HIGHLY unlikely, but just a thought.

Doom's armor is protected by magic. Faust's earlier EMP strike was magical. Sinestro's isn't. I'm not convinced it'd get through his usual magical protections.

I never saw Ocean's 11. Any good?

I can't recommend Ocean's 11 highly enough. I can watch that film over & over again (and I do).

I know that they're different characters....which is more than can be said for the writers of Civil War.....but Iron Man's armor is vulnerable to EMP blasts. I think Dr. Doom's armor would be just as vulnerable to EMP blasts.

I'm not really sure how much magical protection Doom has on his armor as a default setting. It probably depends on the writer at the time.

I think it's debatable whether or not kryptonian tech would be effected by an EMP blast, which is why we had Terrax fusing machinery.

I don't think it would just contain the blast. Maybe there are heavily shielded rooms somewhere that wouldn't be hit (like a room that contains samples of green k), but I don't see why it would all be like that.

But if there are closed doors of kryptonian metals that contain the blast inside the room we start in....well, I imagine that waiting for the doors to open would be quite frustrating for Impulse.

The mid-teleport thing sounds like a messy transporter room accident on Star Trek more than a way to say "Hey, we avoided the EMP blast!"

[Schornforce]

Perhaps the teleport/EMP thing would be messy if it weren't magically based. That being said, though, who can say.

I think a lot of our debates are going to devolve into 'the voters decide.' :D

Bart doesn't need to wait for doors to open. He frequently vibrates through walls.

I'll be sure to check out Oceans 11 when I get a chance.

[ragnarok_2012]

Perhaps the teleport/EMP thing would be messy if it weren't magically based. That being said, though, who can say.

I think a lot of our debates are going to devolve into 'the voters decide.' :D

Bart doesn't need to wait for doors to open. He frequently vibrates through walls.

But I thought these were extra special walls and doors of kryptonian metal? :D

So this substance is able to stop EMP blasts, but will still allow super speedsters to phase through them?

And are you saying Doom teleports using magic or science?

Because I'm not sure that Doom can pull of a quickie teleportation spell.

[Schornforce]

He has in the past.

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if it was magic or tech or a fusion. He didn't say. He just grabbed Richards while going "Blahblahblah Doom! Blah blahblah Accursed Richards!" as he smokily teleported away.

I just assumed magic because... well...

...it was so smoky.

You know the speed force out-deus ex machinas EMP's! :p

Wally? You're back from the dead?

Speed force.

Bart? You're older now?

Speed force.

Max? You have an extra arm coming out of your chest!

Speed force.

[ragnarok_2012]

He has in the past.

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if it was magic or tech or a fusion. He didn't say. He just grabbed Richards while going "Blahblahblah Doom! Blah blahblah Accursed Richards!" as he smokily teleported away.

I just assumed magic because... well...

...it was so smoky.

You know the speed force out-deus ex machinas EMP's! :p

Wally? You're back from the dead?

Speed force.

Bart? You're older now?

Speed force.

Max? You have an extra arm coming out of your chest!

Speed force.

Everyone knows that Doom's teleportation belt runs on diesel.

[Schornforce]

LOL I just picture Doom pulling on a string attached to his belt trying to start his teleporter while the Fantastic Four look around awkwardly.

"Accursed motor! You have made a powerful enemy this day!!!!"

Oh, and if Bart can't vibrate through the walls and gets restless, Doom distracts Bart with...

a shiny object!!!


Beware the shiny object and its awesome power.

[Froggy]

LOL I just picture Doom pulling on a string attached to his belt trying to start his teleporter while the Fantastic Four look around awkwardly.

"Accursed motor! You have made a powerful enemy this day!!!!"

Oh, and if Bart can't vibrate through the walls and gets restless, Doom distracts Bart with...

a shiny object!!!


Beware the shiny object and its awesome power. damn bart and hsi short attention span. Can't Bart still vibrate through the GL shield? I've never seen a flashtdo that through a shield made by one of those rings. If that tactic does work I think i'll vote for schorn

[Schornforce]

Well, Froggy, Bart could very well vibrate through a GL construct (or one of Sinestro's), IMO-- unless they specifically will their construct to be invulnerable to any sort of phasing or anything.

It's a moot point, since A) you already voted for me. Thanks, BTW-- and B) Bart never tries to vibrate through Sinestro's field. J'onn tries to phase through, though.

[Schornforce]

Wow! My very first League Championship win! :)

Thanks for the great match, Mike_Smash! and Ragnarok! I thought for sure you all had me with the EMP thing. Even though you did it before, I'd forgotten all about it. It was such a close one, too. As before, it's been an honor competing against such formidable and wonderfully creative opponents.

Also, thanks to everyone who voted for me and all my past opponents. Everyone was a lot of fun to play against!

[Froggy]

Well, Froggy, Bart could very well vibrate through a GL construct (or one of Sinestro's), IMO-- unless they specifically will their construct to be invulnerable to any sort of phasing or anything.

It's a moot point, since A) you already voted for me. Thanks, BTW-- and B) Bart never tries to vibrate through Sinestro's field. J'onn tries to phase through, though.

knew i misread something

and yea

twas a moot point sinc ethe other parts of your strat were pretty nicely placed

and congratulations!

[Mike Smash!]

Congratulations to Schornforce for the win... you were a worthy opponent.

[Sean Whitmore]

And the series goes to:

Schornforce


Congratulations, and feel free to put "2007 JLAvengers League Champion" in your signature!

Mike and Rags, you two fought valiantly and wrote strong, creative strategies throughout the tournament, so you have nothing to be ashamed of. And I want to thank you again for all the help in keeping this League running on spit and bailing wire.


SEAN

[ragnarok_2012]

Congratulations, Schornforce!

[Schornforce]

Thanks for the congrats, guys. This was fun! :)