Exiles #97 - Review, Spoilers, Synopsis!!

[Beast]

While the first Storyarc from Chris Claremont on the title suffered from a few stumbling points... I have to say so far this one is great. And Steve Scott's pencils on the issue are great. Claremont's Morph has gotten a lot of complaints in the first storyarc, but here he's much more reserved and more in keeping with the Morph that he grew into instead of the goofy Morph that featured early on in the series. I have an odd feeling that the new arrival... Kitty Pryde is not what she seems. I wonder if she's actually Mystic, the male Mystique we heard was joining a long time ago. Fans of a certain character should be quite happy with the final page. :)

The issue picks up with where the last one ended. The alternate reality version of Kitty Pryde showing up. For a moment, Psylocke isn't sure if she's real or a dream. Kitty tries to flee, attempting to phase through the wall and just gets knocked back by it. Betsy manages to calm "Cat" down, who recognizes Psylocke as her world's "Captain Britannia", but tells her that she's dead. Betsy explains alternate reality counterparts to Kitty. Worried that Cat might be hurt from hitting the wall so hard, Betsy carries her down to the medbay. As she leaves, we see the entities who look like Dave and Paty Cockrum looking on... apperantly pulling the strings.

Meanwhile on the mission, Morph's following Longshot who left the party due to being uncomfortable. Even Morph has noticed that the world doesn't quite feel right. Kevin follows Longshot into Central Park, concerned about him. Longshot finally turns around and is actually in tears... because everyone around him feels like they're empty. As if they have no souls. That their primal passion seems to be gone. Morph wonders if that's a bad thing, given that passion seems to often do more harm than good on some of the worlds they've seen. They debate the pros and cons, but are interrupted by Blink's arrival. She's come to get them, but unfortunatly can't risk recovering get Spidey or Sabretooth right now due to their proximaty to Doom.

Both Miguel and Victor are having quite the night with the respective ladies they met at Doom's party. It's not stated outright, but from future solicits we know that Miguel's lady friend is actually Gwen Stacy. Back at Doom's tower, Sabretooth makes love to Sue Storm.... and then falls asleep. During the night as Creed slumbers, Doom arrives to study the Tallus on Sabretooth's arm. He tells Sue that she's done supurbly, and if such a device could bring the Exiles here... then they should return the favor and visit their world.

In the cavernous kingdom of Reed Richards... Blink, Longshot, and Morph are making plans with Reed. Longshot makes friends with Reed's "Ben Grimm" moloids. Reed explains that the world was headed for World War III... that when Doom appeared it was like an answer to people's prayers. He managed to bring an end to hunger and disease... and brought the world together in peace. But it was clear when people who didn't change started to vanish, be killed, or become part of Doom's personal guard that something was wrong.

Suddenly, She-Hulk arrives... now corrupted by Doom as one of his personal guard. She offers that Doom could do the same to Reed... but he rejects her and the moloids attack Jennifer, but are repelled by an energy blast from her costume. Morph attacks She-Hulk, but is jumped on by Hulk... who says Jenn's been crazy for years, but now Doom's healed her. As Morph and Hulk slug it out, the Human Torch arrives, barbacuing Reed's moloids. Blink and Longshot managed to defeat them, and Morph throws Hulk into She-Hulk. Blink tells them it's time to go, even though they're winning... they need to take the fight to Doom. That's the only way to win the war.

A short time later... Hulk, She-Hulk, and The Human Torch contact Doom who's working on building a Tallus of his own. He tells them to continue their pursuit, and not to let their powers catch them by surprise this time. Doom checks in on Spidey and Sabretooth, who are still being kept busy by Gwen Stacy and Sue Storm. A while later, Doom hands his Tallus device to the leader of a group of commandos who use it to invade the Crystal Palace. The hologram of Heather tries to alert Betsy and Kitty, but is fried with a laser blast.

Betsy races back to the command center, and attacks the commandos. While they don't have super powers, they have equipment with them to help counter them. As Betsy's knocking one of them out, she's grabbed from behind by another one who actually electrocutes/fries himself to knock her out. The leader of the commandos orders them to take prisnors, as Doom wants people to question about the secrets of the Crystal Palace. One of the troopers find Kitty Pryde, who goes into hysterics that it's all a mistake and she just wants to go home. He reports in that all they found was a kid who won't be any trouble, and offers to look after her as the rest of the troops search. But behind his back we see a twisted little smile from Kitty Pryde.

The other commandos are fanning out, exploring the Crystal Palace and trying to see if there's anyone else around. The place is so big that they find themselves splitting up, each going a seperate way. One of the commandos find themselves in the "Gallery Chamber". The area of the Crystal Palace where the dead and wounded of the former Exiles/Weapon X teams were held in stasis. Suddenly, a gloved fist knocks the commando out and the final page reveals who it is. John Proudstar/Thunderbird is back... not sure where he is or what's going on. But he vows to help the Exiles and most of all to take care of the woman he loves.... NOCTURNE!

[Novaya Havoc]

Lisa must comment. T-Bird is back. In time for the CROSSOVER!!!!!!

[Beast]

Lisa must comment. T-Bird is back. In time for the CROSSOVER!!!!!!
I'm glad he's back. Means we get yet another reunion in the Crossover.

Captain Britain and Psylocke.
Dazzler and Longshot.
Nocturne and Thunderbird.

It's going to be great. I can't wait for October! :D

[drwho]

I almost got it cus i saw the return of T-bird, but then I came to my senses. :)

[Keith_Martineau]

Damn, this sounds good! I thought it was odd that the Annual focused on a dreaming Thunderbird, randomly.

I think, even though some of Claremonts overt Claremontisms, that this title IS headed for some serious change to make it fresh again.

[CMBMOOL]

Lisa must comment. T-Bird is back. In time for the CROSSOVER!!!!!!

Well I can see that. :D

So Thunderbird is going to play a major role in the upcoming Crossover. :cool:

This seems intersting.:p

[Arilou]

Damnit, for a moment I thought we'd have Mimic back. Even under Claremont that would have been awesome.

[Beast]

Damnit, for a moment I thought we'd have Mimic back. Even under Claremont that would have been awesome.
There was pretty much no way Mimic was coming back. Thunderbird at least had an out. But Cal was a desicated husk burned out by Proteus. So unless it was another alternate reality version, it's unlikely to happen.

[jester1436]

Wow, it sounds like a massive improvement over the past couple of issues. I'm almost excited to pick it up this weekend.

[Oliverhannah]

Found this from Comixfan!

In Exiles #95 leading up to Exiles #100 then which will work as a cross-over between Exiles and New Excalibur debuting with issues X-Men: Die by the Sword #1 and #2 is a 5-issue mini-series in October, Longshot n Psylocke will stay in 616 and then Nocturne will be rejoining the Exiles.

:eek: :eek:

[John Sage]

There was pretty much no way Mimic was coming back. Thunderbird at least had an out. But Cal was a desicated husk burned out by Proteus. So unless it was another alternate reality version, it's unlikely to happen.

All it would take is an itsy bit of wolverine healing residue to kick start things.

Did they ever show what they did with Calvin's body - he's not in the wall is he?

[jester1436]

Calvin was buried in his home reality, as where all the other dead Exiles and Weapon Xers.

[John Sage]

Calvin was buried in his home reality, as where all the other dead Exiles and Weapon Xers.

Maybe some Ord type technology would do the trick then?

Am I the only one who thinks that a panel showing Calvin clawing his way out of his grave would be oh-so-cool?

[jester1436]

Bringing him back kind of misses the point of Exiles though. I mean, Blink left and came back, and Thunderbird was comatose, but they weren't dead. In a book like Exiles, they're jumping from reality to reality, sometimes one of them doesn't make the next jump. It's the nature of the book and team. The concept has already changed a lot with the Crystal Palace and the element of control added in the World Tour arc.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

You know what would make exiles better?


Ripping off quantum leap more.


Cut the cast down to like 3 people. ANd have them jump into peoples bodies, who may or may not have superpowers.

ZIggy says this idea has a 99.9% chance of being awesome

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/TheHuzzah/Untitl.jpg

[Hi-Fi]

I'm hoping Besty and Longshot stay in 616 universe after the crossover. Meanwhile, Sage sure can use a trip to Exiles land.

[Beast]

All it would take is an itsy bit of wolverine healing residue to kick start things.

Did they ever show what they did with Calvin's body - he's not in the wall is he?
Considering Proteus destroys the consciousness of those he sucks dry, ain't gonna happen. And there's no sense in bringing him back anyway. He had a legitimate death and there was no out. Where as Thunderbird has had an out for a return ever since the issue he became comatose in. And here ya go.

[Beast]

I'm hoping Besty and Longshot stay in 616 universe after the crossover. Meanwhile, Sage sure can use a trip to Exiles land.
Betsy's been confirmed as remaining on the cast going by the last interview.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I'm hoping Besty and Longshot stay in 616 universe after the crossover. Meanwhile, Sage sure can use a trip to Exiles land.

here here



Ziggy also says this is a great idea Sam!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/TheHuzzah/Untitl.jpg

[jester1436]

You know what would make exiles better?


Ripping off quantum leap more.


Cut the cast down to like 3 people. ANd have them jump into peoples bodies, who may or may not have superpowers.

ZIggy says this idea has a 99.9% chance of being awesome

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/TheHuzzah/Untitl.jpg

Unfortunately, Ziggy's been smoking crack with Whitney Houston and Stacey X. :(

[jester1436]

Meanwhile, Sage sure can use a trip to Exiles land.

I'd rather she trip and break her hip.

OH THE EMOTION, OH THE PAIN!

[Hi-Fi]

Betsy's been confirmed as remaining on the cast going by the last interview.
One can still hope plans got changed. :)

[Hi-Fi]

I'd rather she trip and break her hip.

OH THE EMOTION, OH THE PAIN!
Sure, but in Exiles land.

[Dagger]

Unfortunately, Ziggy's been smoking crack with Whitney Houston and Stacey X. :(

Awwww. That's not fair! Why would you bring down Stacy X like that, having her hang out with that crack head?:p

[Hi-Fi]

This issue does sound good. And I liked the art from the preview pages.

[jester1436]

Awwww. That's not fair! Why would you bring down Stacy X like that, having her hang out with that crack head?:p

It's all set up for the Stacy X Intervention and Rehab Special, leading into the mega The Best Little Whore House In Westchester crossover. It'll be totally worth it.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Quantum Leap > Exiles

[Arilou]

There was pretty much no way Mimic was coming back. Thunderbird at least had an out. But Cal was a desicated husk burned out by Proteus. So unless it was another alternate reality version, it's unlikely to happen.

He also had several different healing-factors interacting at the same time. There was a pretty clear "out" there, should someone care to use it.

[Faded]

Honestly, I'm not interested in the main picture that's being painted and just skimmed through much of the summary but I do commend Claremont on what appears to be tidying up the backdrop of the Exiles concept and making it more adventurous and unpredictable.

I think the series perhaps has evolved where I don't really think I need to see its stars stripped from the title, yet still have a revolving door for a cast, so I'm happy to see someone like T-Bird back.

I'm also interested in who the "Cockrums" may be, and what agenda they have. I really miss the actual Timebroker and rather despised the whole bugs thing, so hopefully this direction will compensate.

I'll consider picking up the next issue or at the very least, issue 100.

[CmX]

Oh lord the first words that come out of TBird's mouth, "What the devil!?" UARGHASSDRF2341324231421324

[Novaya Havoc]

Oh lord the first words that come out of TBird's mouth, "What the devil!?" UARGHASSDRF2341324231421324

You kid.

Seriously.

You're kidding.

Oh, Lisa is going to have a STROKE. Then Nachturne will be like Nocturne. 10101. :(

[Beast]

I don't get what the big deal is.

It's common slang/speech. It's not any different than spouting fabulous everywhere. ;)

And actually it's not "What the devil?", it's "Where the devil am I?" and it's thought... not said.

[Novaya Havoc]

I don't get what the big deal is.

It's common slang/speech. It's not any different than spouting fabulous everywhere. ;)

But Wolverine doesn't say Fabulous.

Just like the Native American ex-Horseman of Apocalypse does not say "What the DEVIL?" like Psylocke every issue. I've never heard anyone say "What the Devil?!" aloud. Ever. In my lifetime.

It's just a character tic, but it's soooo not T-Bird.

[CmX]

I don't get what the big deal is.

It's common slang/speech. It's not any different than spouting fabulous everywhere. ;)

No. No it's not.

It's not common enough that every comic book he writes every character says it like 20 times in each issue. It's not that common.

And to be quite frank I've only heard actual people in real life say "what the devil" maybe a handful of times in my entire lifetime.

It's bad and not cool sounding and makes them sound like they're mentally impaired.

'WHAT THE FUCK' is common.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Exactly

Claremont needs to learn to hit shift on his keyboard so he can type all the symbols above the numbers

What the *#&%!

[CmX]

Exactly

Claremont needs to learn to hit shift on his keyboard so he can type all the symbols above the numbers

What the *#&%!

You know you love me.

[Beast]

In my experiences it's fairly common. But eh, everyone's experiences there is going to be different. I prefer it to the bullcrap Q-Bert noise sound effect that some people stick all over the issues. And characters do not use it 20 times each every issue. Unless you're reading the same issue 20 times. And ignoring every character that doesn't use it to exaggrate things. Come on now, let's at least try to be serious.

[CmX]

In my experiences it's fairly common. But eh, everyone's experiences there is going to be different. I prefer it to the bullcrap Q-Bert noise sound effect that some people stick all over the issues. And characters do not use it 20 times each every issue. Unless you're reading the same issue 20 times. And ignoring every character that doesn't use it to exaggrate things. Come on now, let's at least try to be serious.

Back back and count how many times CC's Exiles and CC's NEX have said "what the devil" and if it's more than five times that's like... too much.

[xmanson]

I cried.

ten fu**ing charcaters

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I cried.


What the devil?!?

[xmanson]

What the devil?!?

I did. I really did.

Must be the onion blossom i'm eating.

Loved this fucking issue by the way.

"what the devil" aside.

[tetragene]

in my experience its about as common as the phrase "he's the bee's knees"--take that as you will. I'm with Cmx, "what the fuck" is so much more common/universal. Plus its soooo new millenium hip to throw the f-word around ;) Get with the times CC, get with the times! ;)

[xmanson]

in my experience its about as common as the phrase "he's the bee's knees"--take that as you will. I'm with Cmx, "what the fuck" is so much more common/universal. Plus its soooo new millenium hip to throw the f-word around ;) Get with the times CC, get with the times! ;)

Yeah, CC tell the haterzzzzz to FUCK OFF!!!!


:p

[Hi-Fi]

I did. I really did.
You're lying.

Or on drugs.

[Blade X]

Back back and count how many times CC's Exiles and CC's NEX have said "what the devil" and if it's more than five times that's like... too much.

So if they said "what the hell" or "what the ****" more then 5 times, you (and everyone else complaining) would be perfectly happy.

"What the devil" is common slang that is used by people around CC's age or older. Heck, my mom says it.

Honestly, this just sounds like nit picky complaining to me.

[Blade X]

But Wolverine doesn't say Fabulous.

Just like the Native American ex-Horseman of Apocalypse does not say "What the DEVIL?" like Psylocke every issue. I've never heard anyone say "What the Devil?!" aloud. Ever. In my lifetime.

It's just a character tic, but it's soooo not T-Bird.

Ok, I have to ask you this. Why the hell does T-bird being Native American, have to do with him saying "what the devil"?

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

But Wolverine doesn't say Fabulous.


YEs he does, or have you forgotten

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/TheHuzzah/wolverine.jpg

[CmX]

So if they said "what the hell" or "what the ****" more then 5 times, you (and everyone else complaining) would be perfectly happy.

"What the devil" is common slang that is used by people around CC's age or older. Heck, my mom says it.

Honestly, this just sounds like nit picky complaining to me.

That's hot.

But Psylocke isn't in her 50-60's. He shouldn't write his characters based on his own personality or on his personal use of slang. He should write the characters based on .. oh I dunno wild idea but THEIR character.

[Blade X]

That's hot.

But Psylocke isn't in her 50-60's. He shouldn't write his characters based on his own personality or on his personal use of slang. He should write the characters based on .. oh I dunno wild idea but THEIR character.

And yet, many of today's "hot" writers, write characters based on their own personalities and/or their own personal use of slang with little or no complaints from the same people complaining when CC does the same exact thing.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

well most of todays hot writers are only like 20-30ish. So its not as jarring.

[Faded]

LoL, we should all say "what the devil" to make it okay.

We did it for grrrl!

*high five*

[Novaya Havoc]

LoL, we should all say "what the devil" to make it okay.

We did it for grrrl!

*high five*

Heh. CC got the memo on "grrrrl," though. His fans didn't even like it. He dropped it like a hot potato.

GRRRRL was seriously the single worst thing that has ever occurred in a Claremont comic.

[jarrod]

well most of todays hot writers are only like 20-30ish. So its not as jarring.
But then, Betsy's still older than that.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

not in canon

Plus she strikes me as someone who would be up on the current lingo

and she also wouldnt be someone to self-censor herself

She'd drop F bombs like pink haired Dazzler drops on women. ;)

[ImpulseUCF]

I don't get what the big deal is.

It's common slang/speech. It's not any different than spouting fabulous everywhere. ;)

And actually it's not "What the devil?", it's "Where the devil am I?" and it's thought... not said.Err, no, it's not common, particularly among current twenty- and thirty-somethings that comprise the entire cast. Not a single one of these characters once uttered it in the first 90 issues of the book, but they suddenly change dialects to talk like 60 year-old men? Mm, no.
So if they said "what the hell" or "what the ****" more then 5 times, you (and everyone else complaining) would be perfectly happy.Pretty much. It's not repetition that's the problem. The problem is glaringly-misplaced, outdated, cringe-inducing phrases and dialog that are bad enough on their own, but when you consider the excessive repetitionl...ugh. I think in CC's first issue Heather said 'What the devil" 3 or 4 times. Just Heather. In one issue. After never having said it for the rest of the book's existence. Kinda jarring.
"What the devil" is common slang that is used by people around CC's age or older. Heck, my mom says it. That's exactly the problem. These characters are 20-ish, not 50-60-ish, and they never used to talk about it.
Honestly, this just sounds like nit picky complaining to me.Well, of course it's nitpicky complaining. It's also completely valid and accurate nitpicky complaining. I also would argue that isolated occurences might be nitpicking, but the sheer repetitve volume of the flub takes it beyond simple nitpicking. It's jarring and distracting from the story.

The story that actually sounds pretty cool. I need to pick up the issue...

[DDM]

Err, no, it's not common, particularly among current twenty- and thirty-somethings that comprise the entire cast. Not a single one of these characters once uttered it in the first 90 issues of the book, but they suddenly change dialects to talk like 60 year-old men? Mm, no.
Pretty much. It's not repetition that's the problem. The problem is glaringly-misplaced, outdated, cringe-inducing phrases and dialog that are bad enough on their own, but when you consider the excessive repetitionl...ugh. I think in CC's first issue Heather said 'What the devil" 3 or 4 times. Just Heather. In one issue. After never having said it for the rest of the book's existence. Kinda jarring.
That's exactly the problem. These characters are 20-ish, not 50-60-ish, and they never used to talk about it.
Well, of course it's nitpicky complaining. It's also completely valid. I also would argue that isolated occurences might be nitpicking, but the sheer repetitve volume of the flub takes it beyond simple nitpicking. It's jarring and distracting from the story.

The story that actually sounds pretty cool. I need to pick up the issue...

Arguing over idioms is just stupid. It tells me you cannot find any true substantive & constructive criticism that all you're left with is saying "what the devil" is outdated. :rolleyes:

[jarrod]

That's exactly the problem. These characters are 20-ish, not 50-60-ish, and they never used to talk about it.
Well, again, Betts is mid 30s... really though using "devil" in place of "hell" or whatever expletive seems exceedingly trivial. Especially as it's not even that out of place really for a woman of Betsy's age or background, and we're dealing with an all ages book as well (so something harsher like "fuck" is probably out of the picture immediately)... Claremont may be notorious for laughably unrealistic dialog (ie:"Look out, he's rabbiting!") but this is really just making a mountain out of a molehill.

Must be a darn good issue, and a monumental improvement from the last arc, if this sort of grasping nonsense is the best the usual suspects can leverage against it. ;)

[ImpulseUCF]

Arguing over idioms is just stupid. It tells me you cannot find any true substantive & constructive criticism that all you're left with is saying "what the devil" is outdated. :rolleyes:You've completely missed the point. The point is not the placement of a single idiom. The point is continued, repetitve, incessant use of jarring, unbelievably, dated dialog in everything the man writes. Minor problems quickly added up when repeated over and over and over. The dialog is cringe-inducing in parts in every single issue of Exiles he has written. Period. This is just the latest example of a trend.
Must be a darn good issue, and a monumental improvement from the last arc, if this sort of grasping nonsense is the best the usual suspects can leverage against it. ;)I don't have the issue yet, so all I know about is what's been posted, so there. ;) I'll be able to more fully critique any problems in a few days.
Claremont may be notorious for laughably unrealistic dialog That's the problem. Just because he does it all the time doesn't mean it's not important. :P

[jarrod]

That's the problem. Just because he does it all the time doesn't mean it's not important. :P
No, but inflating it's significance seems equally unethical and more disingenious. It's not a bad/stilted/archaic phrase, it's not out of character, hell it's not even a real "Claremontism"... so why is the the votrolic wall-of-sound doing it's usual little dance?

[ImpulseUCF]

How is inflating the significance of a problem in an issue unethical?? That's absurd, and it's not what I was doing, anyway.

It's not out of character or archaic?? Maybe not among old people, but for twenty-somethings it doesn't fit. They don't commonly (if ever) use it. Archaic or not, it's irrefutably inconsistent with the preceding 90 issues of character portrayals. Unexpected changes in personality are a leading sign of depression. :) So, based on previous textual examples and real-world observation of the selected group, it just doesn't fit.

The point is not one bad line here or there. The problem with CC's latest writing, specifically Exiles in this instance, that detracts from the enjoyment of the story significantly is that it is rife with glaringly, painfully outdated dialog, inconsistent character portrayals, constantly repeated themes, characters, ideas and plot lines, and some generally confusing plot points.

Again, this is just the latest example. And I'd say that "what the devil" is well on its way to becoming the latest "Claremontism" having been used at LEAST 10 - 15 times in the last 6 or 7 issues.

Vitrol? You'd be hard pressed to find any of that in my posts.

[Blade X]

well most of todays hot writers are only like 20-30ish. So its not as jarring.

You do know that NOT all people in their 20's and 30's speak the same way or use the same slang.

[Blade X]

and she also wouldnt be someone to self-censor herself

She'd drop F bombs like pink haired Dazzler drops on women. ;)

Well, I would think that CC (who created Betsy) would no better then anyone if she would or would'nt self-censor herself.

[CmX]

Well, I would think that CC (who created Betsy) would no better then anyone if she would or would'nt self-censor herself.

IIRC there was an issue in the 80's where Psylocke says to herself that she could make the likes of a sailor blush with her cursing.

He said it himself, she's a potty mouth.

DDM, issue reference! kthxbye

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

You do know that NOT all people in their 20's and 30's speak the same way or use the same slang.

Yes

But does claremont?




Oh SNAPS

[jester1436]

Oh SNAPS

http://www.2and2.net/files/46bbcce790388.jpg

[Blade X]

Pretty much. It's not repetition that's the problem. The problem is glaringly-misplaced, outdated, cringe-inducing phrases and dialog that are bad enough on their own, but when you consider the excessive repetitionl...ugh. I think in CC's first issue Heather said 'What the devil" 3 or 4 times. Just Heather. In one issue. After never having said it for the rest of the book's existence. Kinda jarring.
That's exactly the problem. These characters are 20-ish, not 50-60-ish, and they never used to talk about it.


I'm sorry, but I DO NOT find it jarring at all to hear a character saying "what the devil" for the first time in their entire comic book history. Jarring to me, is if a character who spoke perfectly good English suddenly started talking Ebonics.

Trust me, yesterday's slang, is either today or tomorrow's slang.

[Blade X]

Yes

But does claremont?




Oh SNAPS

Does any writer currently working in the industry know it as well? Based on most comic stories today, I would say no.

[jester1436]

"What the devil" is a dated phrase. It's fine in limited use on the right character, but NONE of the Exiles are that character. Maybe Xavier or Dr. Doom would say "What the devil", but Thunderbird? Psylocke?

The dialogue doesn't suit the characters or their vibe. It's a cliche line, even if it was frequently used, it's NOT good writing to over use cliched lines. It's not a unique catchphrase, it's not charming, it's dull writing.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

http://www.2and2.net/files/46bbcce790388.jpg

I definitely would

respekt

[Blade X]

and we're dealing with an all ages book as well (so something harsher like "fuck" is probably out of the picture immediately)

And this is most likely the main reason why CC used "What the devil" in place of either "What the hell" or "what the ****". This book is rated A (for ages 9 and up). So of course CC is going to tone the language down a bit.

[jester1436]

And this is most likely the main reason why CC used "What the devil" in place of either "What the hell" or "what the ****". This book is rated A (for ages 9 and up). So of course CC is going to tone the language down a bit.

Eh... "What the hell" wouldn't be out of place in a book where Sabretooth gets it on with an evil Sue Storm. Even then, you could easily truncate to "What the..." allowing the reader to insert their own expletive.

[CmX]

And this is most likely the main reason why CC used "What the devil" in place of either "What the hell" or "what the ****". This book is rated A (for ages 9 and up). So of course CC is going to tone the language down a bit.

But he just used "what the hell" last issue ..... so since he doesn't want to use "hell" or censor it he uses what the devil ?

I still don't buy it, it's lazy and just awkward to have nearly the entire cast using "what the devil" multiple times in an issue.

It's just tired is what it is, maybe once or twice, but seriously it's getting annoying. Yesterdays slang could be tomorrows? WTF but what the devil won't I promise you and even if it does, the point being it's NOT today.

[Blade X]

"What the devil" is a dated phrase. It's fine in limited use on the right character, but NONE of the Exiles are that character. Maybe Xavier or Dr. Doom would say "What the devil", but Thunderbird? Psylocke?

The dialogue doesn't suit the characters or their vibe. It's a cliche line, even if it was frequently used, it's NOT good writing to over use cliched lines. It's not a unique catchphrase, it's not charming, it's dull writing.

I have been reading comics for about 28 years, and I can tell you that MOST slang (and fashion) in comics has always been either dated or misplaced.

[jester1436]

I have been reading comics for about 28 years, and I can tell you that MOST slang (and fashion) in comics has always been either dated or misplaced.

But that's not a defense of using ancient slang and tired cliches. That's basically saying creators need to be more creative or do some research to make their characters fit in a contemporary world.

[CmX]

I have been reading comics for about 28 years, and I can tell you that MOST slang (and fashion) in comics has always been either dated or misplaced.

Really? Oh... awkward... sorry CC!

[Blade X]

But he just used "what the hell" last issue ..... so since he doesn't want to use "hell" or censor it he uses what the devil ?

I still don't buy it, it's lazy and just awkward to have nearly the entire cast using "what the devil" multiple times in an issue.

It's just tired is what it is, maybe once or twice, but seriously it's getting annoying. Yesterdays slang could be tomorrows? WTF but what the devil won't I promise you and even if it does, the point being it's NOT today.

You're missing my point. Instead of using the phrase "what the hell" multiple times in an issue, he opted to use the toned down "what the devil" four times instead. In other words, when I said he "toned down the language" I was was talking about the DECREASE in the NUMBER OF TIMES he used the phrase "What the hell", as well as NOT using the word "hell".

How do you know that "what the devil" is'nt being used today in other parts of the country or the world in general?

[CmX]

You're missing my point. Instead of using the phrase "what the hell" multiple times in an issue, he opted to use the toned down "what the devil" four times instead. In other words, when I said he "toned down the language" I was was talking about the DECREASE in the NUMBER OF TIMES he used the phrase "What the hell", as well as NOT using the word "hell".

How do you know that "what the devil" is'nt being used today in other parts of the country or the world in general?

I don't. But I know sure as hell (look I just used the word hell) it's not being used in the US of A.

[Novaya Havoc]

Well, again, Betts is mid 30s... really though using "devil" in place of "hell" or whatever expletive seems exceedingly trivial. Especially as it's not even that out of place really for a woman of Betsy's age or background, and we're dealing with an all ages book as well (so something harsher like "fuck" is probably out of the picture immediately)... Claremont may be notorious for laughably unrealistic dialog (ie:"Look out, he's rabbiting!") but this is really just making a mountain out of a molehill.


Dazzler is mid-30s, and he also had her running around screaming "grrrrrl!!!" like a 19-year-old, out-n-proud, fair-trade coffee-drinking, womens' studies major.

And yeah -- not all people in their 20s use the same slang. I say "Hilar!" and "Groovy" all the time, but I have yet to hear anyone say "What the Devil?!"

Though I may start a new trend.

[Blade X]

But that's not a defense of using ancient slang and tired cliches. That's basically saying creators need to be more creative or do some research to make their characters fit in a contemporary world.

I agree. However, MOST creators DO NOT do research to make the characters they write fit in verbally with the contemporary world.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I blame the storylines

If they werent so off the wall, maybe the characters would know what the hell is going on and wouldnt need to ask "what the devil"

[jester1436]

Dazzler is mid-30s, and he also had her running around screaming "grrrrrl!!!" like a 19-year-old, out-n-proud, fair-trade coffee-drinking, womens' studies major.



Hell, I was a women and gender studies minor and I never heard any of them say "GRRRRRL!!!" I never said it either. Even my best friend who's in to the old school Riot Grrrl scenewouldn't say grrrl.

I did see the former chair, a gay French man, dress like a cowboy and dance to Kelis' "Milkshake" once, but that's neither here nor there.

[Novaya Havoc]

Hell, I was a women and gender studies minor and I never heard any of them say "GRRRRRL!!!" I never said it either. Even my best friend who's in to the old school Riot Grrrl scenewouldn't say grrrl.

I did see the former chair, a gay French man, dress like a cowboy and dance to Kelis' "Milkshake" once, but that's neither here nor there.

LMFAOOOO! YouTube Moment!

I never hear "grrrl" either, because it sounds like the gaymo version "guuuurlll!!!!" but I see it typed a LOT.

At least Dazzler wasn't saying "womyn."

[Novaya Havoc]

I agree. However, MOST creators DO NOT do research to make the characters they write fit in verbally with the contemporary world.

Claremont has told people "my bad," before, so he's trying!

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Stuff like you go grrl?


Thats still kinda common

[jester1436]

Stuff like you go grrl?


Thats still kinda common

It's more like "Hey, we're both womyn, let's rub our lady parts together, grrl?"

[Novaya Havoc]

Stuff like you go grrl?


Thats still kinda common

No, see, that's "You go, GURL."

Context context.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

nah i think grrl inflection is still used


granted its used in that "its so lame its cool" kinda way

Grrl you know its true

Ooo
Ooo
Ooo

Milli killed himself

[Pach!]

Comics are an artistic medium like any other, it shouldn't get a free pass. I would be totally turned off to a movie with dated dialog. Unless of course, the setting of the movie warrants the use of that type of language. New Excalibur is set in present day England with most of the cast having lived in America their whole life (I think). I don't understand why Claremont prefers "what the devil" to "what the hell" or something like that.

[Ryan K]

I keep seeing this term "most creators" used in defense of bad writing. Most creators do it that way. Most creators don't do that.

That's just deflecting the argument. Whether or not most creators do something poorly is not a defense against doing something poorly.

[ImpulseUCF]

You do know that NOT all people in their 20's and 30's speak the same way or use the same slang.Oh, I'm sure someone somewhere in their twenties may say it, but the exception doesn't disprove the rule.
I'm sorry, but I DO NOT find it jarring at all to hear a character saying "what the devil" for the first time in their entire comic book history. Jarring to me, is if a character who spoke perfectly good English suddenly started talking Ebonics.There are varying degrees of jarring, and just because it doesn't bother you does not mean it isn't outdated.
"What the devil" is a dated phrase. It's fine in limited use on the right character, but NONE of the Exiles are that character. Maybe Xavier or Dr. Doom would say "What the devil", but Thunderbird? Psylocke?Exactly. That is exactly right. The phrase itself is uncommon if not unheard of; the phrase coming from 20-somethings who've never used it in 5 years of the book suddenly regressing? Not so much.
The dialogue doesn't suit the characters or their vibe. It's a cliche line, even if it was frequently used, it's NOT good writing to over use cliched lines. It's not a unique catchphrase, it's not charming, it's dull writing.Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
And this is most likely the main reason why CC used "What the devil" in place of either "What the hell" or "what the ****". This book is rated A (for ages 9 and up). So of course CC is going to tone the language down a bit.If I'm not mistaken, he had the same character say "what the hell" and "what the devil" on the same panel of the same page. So that seems unlikely.

All right, look...certainly we can all agree that at best, "what the devil" is uncommon today. Not unheard of, but uncommon. Furthermore, the people who probably say it the most are the people who were saying it when it was popular...older crowd. As a 20-something who surrounds himself primarily with 20-somethings from different areas, it is my observation that not one of them has ever said it in any serious capacity if at all. Furthermore, while by no means wholly representative, you NEVER hear 20-somethings use the phrase in the myriad movies, tv shows, news reports, hosting positions, reality shows, documentaries, etc. It just isn't used. It's not.

Surely there are exceptions here and there, but the fact that it is so far removed from popular culture on any base levels make it stick out even worse to hear it now. You might here it in an old movie on TMC or TNN from the 50s, 60s, 0r 70s, but you'd be hard pressed to hear it on anything provuded in the last 25+ years.

Here we are once again beating a minor detail into the ground, but this detail is just the latest example of the trend of tired, cliched, outdated dialog and inconsistent character portrayals. Stories, directions, and some themes should be able to freely change when a creative team shifts, but the character portrayals should be seamless. Otherwise, why bother writing about the same characters?

[jarrod]

How is inflating the significance of a problem in an issue unethical?? That's absurd, and it's not what I was doing, anyway.
Unethical was a poor choice of words, biased or unobjective would be closer to what I was going for.


It's not out of character or archaic?? Maybe not among old people, but for twenty-somethings it doesn't fit. They don't commonly (if ever) use it.
But, once again, Betsy isn't some twenty-something. And she's british, from a aristocratic background...


Archaic or not, it's irrefutably inconsistent with the preceding 90 issues of character portrayals.
For Betsy?


So, based on previous textual examples and real-world observation of the selected group, it just doesn't fit.
Seems perfectly in character for Betsy... which frankly, is the only component besides Longshot even worth considering in this heap. ;)


The point is not one bad line here or there. The problem with CC's latest writing, specifically Exiles in this instance, that detracts from the enjoyment of the story significantly is that it is rife with glaringly, painfully outdated dialog, inconsistent character portrayals, constantly repeated themes, characters, ideas and plot lines, and some generally confusing plot points.
Well, nice to see you've zeroed in on the "real problem" here... I see it's not even an issue with the lambasted specific problem but rather blowing up a minor inconsistancy to further the larger agenda and greater cause. Again. ;)


Again, this is just the latest example. And I'd say that "what the devil" is well on its way to becoming the latest "Claremontism" having been used at LEAST 10 - 15 times in the last 6 or 7 issues.
Meh, it's far, far too common a phrase to even start approaching real Claremontism territory (ie: rabbiting, selfsame, flamin', yum!, etc).


Vitrol? You'd be hard pressed to find any of that in my posts.
I wasn't speaking of you specifically, or at all honestly. But this thread is loaded with the stuff...

[jarrod]

Dazzler is mid-30s, and he also had her running around screaming "grrrrrl!!!" like a 19-year-old, out-n-proud, fair-trade coffee-drinking, womens' studies major.
Well, what'd you expect? She just came out... makes some sense we'd see her more juvenille dikey insecurties rise to the surface. Shit floats y'know...

[ImpulseUCF]

But, once again, Betsy isn't some twenty-something. And she's british, from a aristocratic background...For Betsy?Even if Betsy could be conceded, I doubt it would be the only thing to come out of her mouth as it nearly has been, and that still doesn't excuse its rampant use among so many of the others.
I see it's not even an issue with the lambasted specific problem but rather blowing up a minor inconsistancy to further the larger agenda and greater cause. Again. ;)Er, no, it's one more example of an over-arching problem. They are not separate issues.
Meh, it's far, far too common a phrase to even start approaching real Claremontism territory (ie: rabbiting, selfsame, flamin', yum!, etc). I don't know... 20 times in 7 issues? Just you wait! Give CC some credit here. :)
I wasn't speaking of you specifically, or at all honestly. But this thread is loaded with the stuff...Fair enough.

[Brian M.]

I want to see one of the characters say, "Mother of God!!!!!" as they watch Sage be a badass.

[Dagger]

I like to say 'HOLY GEEZ!!!':eek: Don't really have anything to say about the book, because I haven't bought it thus far, why start now? Other than Blink, there really isn't a character that I care to read about, and I spend enough money on books with characters that I love to read about.

[jarrod]

Even if Betsy could be conceded, I doubt it would be the only thing to come out of her mouth as it nearly has been, and that still doesn't excuse its rampant use among so many of the others.
"Even if"? Conceding Betsy's a foregone conclusion at this point, but feel free to rant on concerning whatever disposable analogs that fill out this rag.


Er, no, it's one more example of an over-arching problem. They are not separate issues.
Seems more to me there is no "example of an over-arching problem" though, it's a nonissue and more it rings of the usual suspects grasping at any fuel for the hate engine. Again.

It might be more prevalent among certain social, economic or regional groups, but the use of "devil" is hardly archaic or uncommon for an expletive.


I don't know... 20 times in 7 issues? Just you wait! Give CC some credit here. :)
Key difference is you can actually hear someone use "devil" in the real world, versus "rabbiting" or "selfsame". Again, it's about how widespread the phrase is, not within Claremont's serial work specifically but out here in a larger context.

[ImpulseUCF]

"Even if"? Conceding Betsy's a foregone conclusion at this point, but feel free to rant on concerning whatever disposable analogs that fill out this rag.Your hypocrisy is showing. It must take a lot of nerve to accuse people of spewing hate when you constantly berate Exiles threads with insults and drivel on how worthless the book is. We are at least discussing what we thought of the book and don't troll the thread just to say its worthless. Most people who are upset with it are reading it because they are trying to enjoy it or used to enjoy it and are having trouble doing so now.
Seems more to me there is no "example of an over-arching problem" though, it's a nonissue and more it rings of the usual suspects grasping at any fuel for the hate engine. Again.You can call it what you like, but it's repetitive and inconsistent with past potrayal. That's indisputable fact. You may not have a problem with it, but it would be very difficult to argue "what the devil" is common, perfectly acceptable dialog amongst 20 somethings. I mean, sure, you could argue it, but you'd probably have trouble finding evidence.
It might be more prevalent among certain social, economic or regional groups, but the use of "devil" is hardly archaic or uncommon for an expletive. Are you serious? Show me two contemporary examples amongst anything remotely pop culture or mainstream at all. I dare you. The gaping lack of its use in any public medium whatsoever is pretty damn inarguable.
Key difference is you can actually hear someone use "devil" in the real world, versus "rabbiting" or "selfsame". Again, it's about how widespread the phrase is, not within Claremont's serial work specifically but out here in a larger context.Not in this context. Not as anything but an exception. But you're right in that CC did not invent "what the devil."

Come back when you're ready to stop trolling and can actually defend and support an argument. And accusing anyone of spewing hatred for this title is the pot calling the kettle black black black.

[jarrod]

Your hypocrisy is showing. It must take a lot of nerve to accuse people of spewing hate when you constantly berate Exiles threads with insults and drivel on how worthless the book is.
This is the first time I've done so in weeks actually, indeed I tend to avoid Exiles threads these days... but then, we all know what little it takes for you to define an "over-arching problem" so I guess I should be careful. ;)


You can call it what you like, but it's repetitive and inconsistent with past potrayal. That's indisputable fact. You may not have a problem with it, but it would be very difficult to argue "what the devil" is common, perfectly acceptable dialog amongst 20 somethings. I mean, sure, you could argue it, but you'd probably have trouble finding evidence.
You'd be hard pressed to bring any "evidence" of the phrase as uncommon either, these sorts of things are hard to prove in any direction beyond anecdotal experience. Nice strawman though.


Are you serious? Show me two contemporary examples amongst anything remotely pop culture or mainstream at all. I dare you. The gaping lack of its use in any public medium whatsoever is pretty damn inarguable.
Saw it on "How clean is your house?" last night... granted it was a rerun from oh, way back in 2003/4 probably, and british, and coming from a large, older, flirtatous (and slightly drag-queenish) spectacle of a woman, but it was still there. :D


Not in this context. Not as anything but an exception. But you're right in that CC did not invent "what the devil."
And as such, this really can't be lumped in as another Claremontism.


Come back when you're ready to stop trolling and can actually defend and support an argument. And accusing anyone of spewing hatred for this title is the pot calling the kettle black black black.
As a wise man once said "Your hypocrisy is showing." Settle down.

[Adriel]

So, I liked the issue, and the Thunderbird thing was very surprising, and I have no idea how this will all turn out.

[ImpulseUCF]

You'd be hard pressed to bring any "evidence" of the phrase as uncommon either, these sorts of things are hard to prove in any direction beyond anecdotal experience. Nice strawman though.It's absesnce of use is the evidence to it being, well, uncommon. Or rather, put another way... the other phrases that take its place as variations of "what the...?!" in various capacities show that these other phrases are much more commonly used. It's absence is the evidence of its absence.
Saw it on "How clean is your house?" last night... granted it was a rerun from oh, way back in 2003/4 probably, and british, and coming from a large, older, flirtatous (and slightly drag-queenish) spectacle of a woman, but it was still there. :DHeh. Exactly. A fat old bag used it on an obscure British show with what I assume is a focus on an older audience. Not exactly hot amongst the 20 somethings, is it? The exception does not disprove the rule.

FYI...picking up the issue in a few minutes so I'll have hopefully read it and be able to discuss it instead of long-standing, repetitive flubs and phrases that pervade the breadth of Claremont's post- 2000 work. Thus, over-arching. "Extending over or throughout." :p

[jarrod]

It's absesnce of use is the evidence to it being, well, uncommon. Or rather, put another way... the other phrases that take its place as variations of "what the...?!" in various capacities show that these other phrases are much more commonly used. It's absence is the evidence of its absence.
Unfortunately, unless you can actually prove a quantitiative absence of "devil" as a used expletive throughout contemporary media, you're still pushing a stawman. Simply repeating that it's absent with no figures or data to back it up makes no case whatsoever.


Heh. Exactly. A fat old bag used it on an obscure British show with what I assume is a focus on an older audience. Not exactly hot amongst the 20 somethings, is it? The exception does not disprove the rule.
Anecdotal evidence is all we can bring to the table here really... still, using a reference from a top 10 british show isn't exactly a badge of obscurity, especially when the key character in contention hails from the same region and isn't exactly twenty-something. ;)


FYI...picking up the issue in a few minutes so I'll have hopefully read it and be able to discuss it instead of long-standing, repetitive flubs and phrases that pervade the breadth of Claremont's post- 2000 work. Thus, over-arching. "Extending over or throughout." :p
edit: uhm, meant to say "can't wait!". :D

[ImpulseUCF]

This never is or was proposed as a scientific study but general observation. And you're mistaken; I'm not trying to prove it is not common; rather, I'm saying there is no evidence that it is common whatsoever.

There is not sufficient evidience to suggest that "...the devil" phrases are common or popular today because the proof just is not there.

Even if it were, it's still theatrical, over-the-top posturing type language. It harkens back to the classic cheesy comics of the 40s, 50s and 60s. It's hardly contemporary and seems unnatural.

Anyway, on to the issue (read it!)

"... the devil..." Usage Count: Exiles # 97: Three.

Running total: TBD. I don't have access to the issues at the moment. Anyone care to take this on?

Funny snippets you might have heard before:

"We're Exiles!"

"Now it's MY turn!" Actually, I think that was in NEX.

General thoughts

Not bad, but a bit off... seemed a bit preachier than usual with the "should we bother to free them if they're happily ignorant"?

Felt odd to see Miguel passionately fall for an emotionless, pationless husk of a Gwen Stacy. Contradiction, much?

Longshot's characterization was nice. Morph wasn't painfully, horribly, glaringly out of character.

Doom removing the Tallus doesn't seem like it should be possible, but who knows.

T-Bird returning? Nice. I just wish Winnick was writing the reuinion. I hope CC doesn't botch it... based on how's written TJ to date, I'm not optimistic.

BTW... it would be PERFECTLY acceptable and in-character for John to call her Talia of all people in both series, but CC has him call her Nocturne.... Hahahahahaha. Oi vey.

Summary:

Not bad. A little hokey with the banter and posturing dialog, but that's CC... no big deal. Characterization is getting better. The dialog is still dated and clunky. B - / C+ at best.

But WAY better than Bedard's post-Crystal Palace reveal. World Tour of Suck. :p

[jester1436]

But WAY better than Bedard's post-Crystal Palace reveal. World Tour of Suck. :p

I loved World Tour, I mean, the idea of it and the delivery of the various alternate realities. The bugs were an unnecessary reveal though and the Crystal Palace sounds like that Golden Girls spin-off without Bea Arthur.

[ImpulseUCF]

I loved World Tour, I mean, the idea of it and the delivery of the various alternate realities. The bugs were an unnecessary reveal though and the Crystal Palace sounds like that Golden Girls spin-off without Bea Arthur.Heh. I think World Tour was a good idea with piss-poor execution. That about marks the time where the soul and deep character moments were sucked out of the book and haven't really been replaced, so I kind of resent it. :)

[jarrod]

This never is or was proposed as a scientific study but general observation. And you're mistaken; I'm not trying to prove it is not common; rather, I'm saying there is no evidence that it is common whatsoever.
Who said anything about a scientific study? I just just wanted something concrete besides the ad nasuem illolgical reptition of "it's uncommon because it's uncommon and that makes it uncommon". In other words, I was just holding you to your own standards of "evidence".

Like I said though, anecdotal evidence is all we can bring to the discussion here... glad you've finally caught wind.


There is not sufficient evidience to suggest that "...the devil" phrases are common or popular today because the proof just is not there.
And by extension, there's not sufficient evidence to suggest the reverse... which was my point.


Even if it were, it's still theatrical, over-the-top posturing type language. It harkens back to the classic cheesy comics of the 40s, 50s and 60s. It's hardly contemporary and seems unnatural.
A fair enough take, though I'd take issue will all it's uses in Exiles so far being "unnatural". That's certainly not the case for Betsy at least, with her age or background, which is really the only component of this book I feel compelled to comment on. :P

[DDM]

Exiles #97 has several surprises including Thunderbird's return to the Crystal Palace while Doctor Doom's men invade it & Cat's inception for the book. Given Cat's sly smile, I think she might actually be Mystic (aka Mystique) in disguise since we have not seen her use her mutant phasing power.

I like how the Cockrums are pulling the strings, but I believe they are puppets to Roma's machinations.

It also makes sense that the Doctor Doom who has all but conquered his Earth wants to explore other realities via the Crystal Palace. This makes this storyline all the more thrilling to read. It reminds me of Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men stories from the 70's-90's.

9/10

[CmX]

But, once again, Betsy isn't some twenty-something. And she's british, from a aristocratic background...

What's the excuse for Creed, T-Bird and Heather then ?

[CmX]

So, I liked the issue, and the Thunderbird thing was very surprising, and I have no idea how this will all turn out.

Neither does CC probably. We still don't know WTF happened at the end of #94.

[jarrod]

What's the excuse for Creed, T-Bird and Heather then ?
Are they twenty-somethings actually? Well T-bird probably, Creed definitely not, and Heather I dunno (616 Heather would def be 30s by now, but I dunno about the Exiles iteration).

None are british I guess though. ;)

[ImpulseUCF]

And by extension, there's not sufficient evidence to suggest the reverse... which was my point. But you don't need evidence to not prove something. It's null. Point is, if it was common you would hear or see it. You don't. It's not.
A fair enough take, though I'd take issue will all it's uses in Exiles so far being "unnatural". That's certainly not the case for Betsy at least, with her age or background, which is really the only component of this book I feel compelled to comment on. :PBetsy isn't that old. She's what, early thirties at most? Even so, that doesn't excuse Creed, Heather, etc.

[jarrod]

But you don't need evidence to not prove something. It's null. Point is, if it was common you would hear or see it. You don't. It's not.
You most certainly need evidence to disprove something. It's not null, you're making a statement here that you can't in any way, shape or form prove or support and are instead just repeating the original statement as if doing that enough makes it so. Seriously, try thinking this through.


Betsy isn't that old. She's what, early thirties at most? Even so, that doesn't excuse Creed, Heather, etc.
Mid 30s at least going by relative ages... she and Bri are older than the O5 actually, and pre Emma, she was the eldest X-woman yet.

How old are Creed and Heather again? The 616 analogs are older than twenty-something also, but I've no clue on the disposables?

[ImpulseUCF]

You most certainly need evidence to disprove something. It's not null, you're making a statement here that you can't in any way, shape or form prove or support and are instead just repeating the original statement as if doing that enough makes it so. Seriously, try thinking this through.What the devil are you trying to say?! Let's not argue, after all.

We're CBR!

[jarrod]

edit-ack stealth edit! Well, um... TITTAYZ!!

[ImpulseUCF]

edit-ack stealth edit! Well, um... TITTAYZ!!
I should really preview my posts and the nmake changes before I post and edit. :)

Sure. I like tittayz. Doesn't everyone?

Heh, you know what's funny? Soon I can use real pics from CC's issues to fill this in. It was almost like it was prophetic or something.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2923/exiles16byccon3.jpg

[xmanson]

Haven't you used that already?

"What the devils" is stupid or whatever.

Claremont is an old man with outdated dialogue.

Umpulse UCF thinks his baloon are "funny".

Let's move on to the next topic.

[DDM]

Haven't you used that already?

"What the devils" is stupid or whatever.

Claremont is an old man with outdated dialogue.

Umpulse UCF thinks his baloon are "funny".

Let's move on to the next topic.

...such as discussing the contents of Exiles #97.

[xmanson]

Yep.

Great issue overaal.

The internal monologue at the end was awful. The first part at the top was ok, the bototm was just truly trash.

[Callisto]

I don't get what the big deal is.

It's common slang/speech. It's not any different than spouting fabulous everywhere. ;)

And actually it's not "What the devil?", it's "Where the devil am I?" and it's thought... not said.


common? ya, maybe if your living in the 19th century! lmao having every character say "what the devil" regardless of what alternate reality or personality type they have is EXTREMELY LAZY writing on claremonts part.

[xmanson]

AGAIN with the "what the devil" shit?

:P

[Novaya Havoc]

AGAIN with the "what the devil" shit?

:P

It's such a good topic of conversation, though!

[CmX]

AGAIN with the "what the devil" shit?

:P

WHAT THE DEVIL! You censor yourself right now! Here at CBR.. we're a FAMILY.. remember ? Your day is done! Absolutely. Yum!

[ImpulseUCF]

It's such a good topic of conversation, though!Evidently, nobody had anything else to say about the issue because nobody else has talked about anything else for like.. the last 5 pages.

XManson: Whether or not my balloons were funny is irrelevant; they were PROPHETIC. How did I know the Exiles would say "What the devil?!" and "We're Exiles" ahead of time? ;)

[CmX]

Evidently, nobody had anything else to say about the issue because nobody else has talked about anything else for like.. the last 5 pages.

XManson: Whether or not my balloons were funny is irrelevant; they were PROPHETIC. How did I know the Exiles would say "What the devil?!" and "We're Exiles" ahead of time? ;)

Who cares if he didn't like them. Everyone else does! Remember the huge scandal they caused when they were first introduced! LOL Loves it! <3

[Callisto]

oh yea and this issue....can you saw AWFUL? i could barely get past the awful dialogue to even really enjoy the issue. i am sooo sick of the exiles dealing with the fantastic four! it was cool in fantastic voyage and in that namora arc, but now its extremely repetitive and soooo not cool! i still cannot believe claremont turned the invisible woman into an invisible skank! how dare she screw creed for talus info! doom better be paying you double for given up your goodies!UGH and the art was equally awful! blink looks like a dragqueen!!!

[CmX]

oh yea and this issue....can you saw AWFUL? i could barely get past the awful dialogue to even really enjoy the issue. i am sooo sick of the exiles dealing with the fantastic four! it was cool in fantastic voyage and in that namora arc, but now its extremely repetitive and soooo not cool! i still cannot believe claremont turned the invisible woman into an invisible skank! how dare she screw creed for talus info! doom better be paying you double for given up your goodies!UGH and the art was equally awful! blink looks like a dragqueen!!!

That art was pretty bad I have to admit. WTF Henry was announced as ongoing and he only does two issues LOL Oh Marvel!

[blinkinrogue]

i wonder what developments are in store for clarice that was mentioned, minor or major.

getting a new costume (finally!)?
getting transferred to 616?

[Blade X]

I keep seeing this term "most creators" used in defense of bad writing. Most creators do it that way. Most creators don't do that.

That's just deflecting the argument. Whether or not most creators do something poorly is not a defense against doing something poorly.

When I say "most writers", I'm NOT using it as an excuse to defend bad writing, but as an example to point out and/or prove the double standard and hypocrisy of some fans.

[Novaya Havoc]

See?! It's just not internet fanboys. My LCS did quick reviews of the comics (WW Chicago -- busy and all, I guess) this week, and this is what they said about Exiles:

"Exiles #97 - [5/10 Stars] - “What the Devil?” “How the Devil did they get here?” “Where the Devil am I?” Oh, Claremont. Seriously, no one talks (or exposits) like this in ANY dimension."

[CmX]

"Exiles #97 - [5/10 Stars] - “What the Devil?” “How the Devil did they get here?” “Where the Devil am I?” Oh, Claremont. Seriously, no one talks (or exposits) like this in ANY dimension."

But but.. they're... um... British ? No just Psylocke... well most of them are in their mid-30s!! Yeah.. that's right middle aged folk talk JUST like that... yeah.. yeah... and um... not only that BUT, "What the devil!" might come back and then you'll all look dumb! Yeah that's it... yeah... right...............

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

It's only b/c if he had Psylocke say "what the Duce?!" It'd be copyright infringement on Family guy.

"Revanche is mine, HA HA"

[Zero Hunter]

Evidently, nobody had anything else to say about the issue because nobody else has talked about anything else for like.. the last 5 pages.

XManson: Whether or not my balloons were funny is irrelevant; they were PROPHETIC. How did I know the Exiles would say "What the devil?!" and "We're Exiles" ahead of time? ;)


If you look most of the last 5 or 6 pages are the same people going back and forth on a topic so retarded that I actully feel dumber for having read through them. This is the perfect example of a "Get a Life" arguement.

[Pach!]

If you look most of the last 5 or 6 pages are the same people going back and forth on a topic so retarded that I actully feel dumber for having read through them. This is the perfect example of a "Get a Life" arguement.

I want my life to be similar to yours! Clearly you have a life.

[ImpulseUCF]

If you look most of the last 5 or 6 pages are the same people going back and forth on a topic so retarded that I actully feel dumber for having read through them. This is the perfect example of a "Get a Life" arguement.Thanks for the constructive addition to the conversation and for introducing topics you deem worth talking about.

Oh, wait. You didn't.

[jester1436]

I'm reading it right now.... did Mole Reed call Shulkie "Jessica"? Really? So she's not Jennifer Walters in this reality? WHAT A TWIST.

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm reading it right now.... did Mole Reed call Shulkie "Jessica"? Really? So she's not Jennifer Walters in this reality? WHAT A TWIST.

Meh, I'll fault Claremont for many many things, but not that. Mary Jane as "Spider-Woman" resulted in one of the best stories of Winick's run even if it was hella cliche in "Legacy."

Ew, I just compared Claremont to Winick. I need to flagellate myself. brb

[jester1436]

Meh, I'll fault Claremont for many many things, but not that. Mary Jane as "Spider-Woman" resulted in one of the best stories of Winick's run even if it was hella cliche in "Legacy."

Ew, I just compared Claremont to Winick. I need to flagellate myself. brb

But who the hell is Jessica? :(

Mary Jane as a spider-powered heroine in another reality makes sense.