Nightcrawler after Excalibur

[Dragonheart]

Since i read all of the Excalibur comics, i was wondering what are a good set of comics to follow Nightcrawler after Excalibur disbanded? From what ive found, X-men #80 is where He, Kitty and Colossus rejoin the X-men. So would be a good bet pick up the X-men from there and continue on to follow Nightcrawler?

[DDM]

Nightcrawler, Colossus, & Shadowcat rejoined the X-Men. Look for "The Hunt for Xavier" 6 part storyline running through Uncanny X-Men & X-Men.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Since i read all of the Excalibur comics, i was wondering what are a good set of comics to follow Nightcrawler after Excalibur disbanded? From what ive found, X-men #80 is where He, Kitty and Colossus rejoin the X-men. So would be a good bet pick up the X-men from there and continue on to follow Nightcrawler?

By all means do, but if you're a nIghtcrawler fan you probably won't like it.

All the development that Kurt received in Excalibur, the leadership calibre and self-confidence, was effectively ignored when he rejoined the x-Men, Kitty and Poitr suffered similar fates. Kitty was effectively de-aged by several years and Colossus just went back to standing in the background again.

All three characters return in the Hunt for Xavier storyline, but do not really make much of an impact, sadly. Kurt doesn't get much of a look in until 2000s Revolution event - but at that point you find he quit the X-Men to study to become a priest.

It all went a bit wrong...:(

[Clea]

Has Nightcrawler done anything significant since he left Excalibur and rejoined the X-crowd? Seems to me that he pretty much faded into the background and got lost in the crowd.

[Dragonheart]

By all means do, but if you're a nIghtcrawler fan you probably won't like it.

All the development that Kurt received in Excalibur, the leadership calibre and self-confidence, was effectively ignored when he rejoined the x-Men, Kitty and Poitr suffered similar fates. Kitty was effectively de-aged by several years and Colossus just went back to standing in the background again.

All three characters return in the Hunt for Xavier storyline, but do not really make much of an impact, sadly. Kurt doesn't get much of a look in until 2000s Revolution event - but at that point you find he quit the X-Men to study to become a priest.

It all went a bit wrong...:(

yeah thats what i was afraid off. The X-men titles, never focus on him really, he just kind of stands around in the background it seems and talks once in a while. Thats the main reason i liked the Excalibur series so much. And i do like Kitty and Colossus too. Though ive the Nightcrawler Wiki page and mentions something in about him and angel co-leading, but im guessing thats a newer development.

[Clea]

yeah thats what i was afraid off. The X-men titles, never focus on him really, he just kind of stands around in the background it seems and talks once in a while. Thats the main reason i liked the Excalibur series so much. And i do like Kitty and Colossus too. Though ive the Nightcrawler Wiki page and mentions something in about him and angel co-leading, but im guessing thats a newer development.

Oh yeah, I forgot all about that horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE bit about Nightcrawler becoming a priest for a while.

Did I mention that I thought it was horrible?

[Babylon23]

Yeah, there hasn't been a lot of good Nightcrawler stories since he left Excalibur. He has his moments, but they're few and far between.

I believe Brubaker has him leading the current Uncanny team, but I quit the book about 5 issues into the Shi'ar storyline so I don't know if that still stands.

[Dragonheart]

Seems like it would be a waste, getting X-men #80 on up then just to try and get more of Nightcrawler.

[creaky]

*sigh* Well, yeah. He's been consistently featured in Uncanny since his return and attempts have been made to start storylines with him, but they have pretty much always just fizzled out. They made him a priest for a while, but that's such an extremely convoluted story, juggled from writer to writer, each with their own ideas, until Chuck Austen blew it up in one of the worst stories ever written. Avoid Chuck Austen's stuff like the plague.
I'm a bit hazy on everything that happened to Kurt before Joe Casey started writing Uncanny. Someone else will have to fill you in on that.

I suppose it depends on what you want from Nightcrawler stories? If you want fun-loving, cheerful and swashbuckling, the only thing I can recommend is X-men Unlimited #49.

If you want a fairly intelligent story where he wrestles with his faith vs the grimness of the real world, there's his 4-issue Icons miniseries written by Chris Kipiniak.

If you prefer his compassionate, caring side, there's X-men Unlimited #38, although that's mostly about Kitty.

If you want a subtle, but nuanced character portrayal, there's Wolverine#6 by Greg Rucka. It's basically just a bar conversation, where Logan gets some stuff off his chest, but it's well done.

If you want a Kurt who drives dramatic, interesting storylines and has an impact on anything, you're out of luck.

He had a recent solo series that lasted 12 issues. It was moderately well-written - by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa - but, imo, a complete misfire, theme-wise. Aguirre-Sacasa loves mystical, supernatural stories and tries to incorporate that theme into everything he writes, it seems. So he had Kurt be a supernatural detective, despite Kurt having no real connection to the supernatural. It seems a bunch of people liked it anyway, so you might want to check it out. I can't really recommend it, though. Aguirre-Sacasa's Kurt was pretty low-key, but cute in a kicked-puppy sort of way.

I'm fond of Casey's short run (Uncanny X-men #394 - #409), personally, but it was pretty unpopular while it lasted. Granted, I didn't actually have to sit through it, I just collected the back issues. He made each character distinct and memorable, though, and paid attention to the dynamics between them, which made it an enjoyable read to me. Plus, his Kurt was the closest thing to Ellis' Kurt that's popped up since Excalibur broke up. Complex, colorful, passionate, driven and with a bit of an edge. A bit uptight, though.

Claremont (Uncanny X-men #444 - #474) took over after Austen and his Kurt was pretty good - complex, lively, passionate and competent, although a bit too whiny and puppy-eyed, imo. He seemed to have some issues with his temper during the first half of the run, but that disappeared.

Brubaker's Kurt is the worst Kurt I've ever read. Completely one-dimensional and boring. And no, he's not the leader. Bru said he was the team leader during the arc before the current one, but he never had him act like it. Right now, he's Xavier's sidekick as they search for Magneto and he's the lamest he's ever been. Yawn.

So no, Kurt hasn't amounted to much, story-wise, since Excalibur. I'm tearing my hair trying to figure out the reason. There doesn't seem to be anything planned, either.

If you can get hold of the issues at your local library, you might want to check them out there first, because there are so many of them and who knows, there might be stuff you like that I don't and vice versa.

[Dragonheart]

Thanks for the info Creaky. I should have 1-4 of Nightcrawler's series anyday now, i order them a while back, but still waiting for them to come in. The Icon ones look good too. Getting the X-men ones is just difficult because you listed some good ones hes in, but kinda hard to just pick a random one and read it and now whats going on, kinda almost all or nothing sort of it. Just also confusing with, i know after Excalibur disbanded he rejoined the X-men. Now that is X-men #80, but i dont get like the whole theres unlimted X-men comics and the Uncanny X-men and then just plain X-men. I dont get whats the difference?

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Here's a question...why doesn't Mystique care for him like she does Rogue?

[steve2275]

its a woman thing?

[Dragonheart]

Here's a question...why doesn't Mystique care for him like she does Rogue?

I think its suppose to be the way he looked when he was born and the town found out she wasnt what she appeared to be, after giving birth to a "demon". And so they chased her and she tossed him off a cliff into a river. So i think, i could be and probably am wrong.

[creaky]

Here's a question...why doesn't Mystique care for him like she does Rogue?

Since so little has actually been said in-canon regarding the subject, it's hard to say for certain. I'd chalk a lot of it up to writers' neglect. But as for a more story-based explanation, she might very well avoid him out of guilt. Rogue, she chose to take in and raise. She has happy memories associated with Rogue and quite possibly a bit of pride, as well.
Kurt, she threw away and what he is now is not a product of her efforts, but rather in spite of her efforts. He has some of her characteristics, which might serve as a constant reminder of their connection. Perhaps she's angry she failed to kill him. Perhaps she wishes she hadn't thrown him away. Perhaps she's ashamed of having given birth to someone that deformed. Perhaps it's even all of those things, perhaps it varies from day to day, even. Who knows with Mystique?

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I think its suppose to be the way he looked when he was born and the town found out she wasnt what she appeared to be, after giving birth to a "demon". And so they chased her and she tossed him off a cliff into a river. So i think, i could be and probably am wrong.

That's a long time to hold a grudge. ESPECIALLY against your first born. From all appearances and from the way it's always been portrayed, Nightcraweler is a fundamentally better all around person than Rogue yet he gets the short end? Odd. I don't even recall them being in the same book other than that one X-Men Unlimited YEARS ago.

Since so little has actually been said in-canon regarding the subject, it's hard to say for certain. I'd chalk a lot of it up to writers' neglect. But as for a more story-based explanation, she might very well avoid him out of guilt. Rogue, she chose to take in and raise. She has happy memories associated with Rogue and quite possibly a bit of pride, as well.
Kurt, she threw away and what he is now is not a product of her efforts, but rather in spite of her efforts. He has some of her characteristics, which might serve as a constant reminder of their connection. Perhaps she's angry she failed to kill him. Perhaps she wishes she hadn't thrown him away. Perhaps she's ashamed of having given birth to someone that deformed. Perhaps it's even all of those things, perhaps it varies from day to day, even. Who knows with Mystique?

If that was the reason, that would make Raven a truly despicable human being. Sinister kind of became what he is because he lost his family. Magneto's first daughter dying had a profound effect on his perception of the world, not to mention he never knew he had twins out there fending for themselves. Yet Mystique couldn't take the pressure and got rid of her son and continually avoids him? Thumbs down.

[creaky]

A little late to respond to this, but I've been busy and managed to forget all about it. Sowwy.

Thanks for the info Creaky. I should have 1-4 of Nightcrawler's series anyday now, i order them a while back, but still waiting for them to come in. The Icon ones look good too. Getting the X-men ones is just difficult because you listed some good ones hes in, but kinda hard to just pick a random one and read it and now whats going on, kinda almost all or nothing sort of it. Just also confusing with, i know after Excalibur disbanded he rejoined the X-men. Now that is X-men #80, but i dont get like the whole theres unlimted X-men comics and the Uncanny X-men and then just plain X-men. I dont get whats the difference?

Welcome to X-men continuity. Make sure to bring plenty of aspirin.
When Excalibur rejoined the X-men, it was during a period of crossover story-lines, so X-men #80 actually picked up after Uncanny X-men #365 or so and was then continued in both X-men and Uncanny. At that point, there wasn't much difference between the two titles. These days, they're two different teams with different storylines.

X-men Unlimited no longer exists, but when it did, it was a title serving to hold shorter side-stories that didn't fit into the major story-lines, usually stories that took a more in-depth look at individual characters (in theory, at least).

I recommend this site (http://uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/) for trying to unravel continuity. That particular page contains summaries of most issues along with footnotes and guides. To find X-men #80, click "X-men ( 2nd series)" down at the end. While the Uncanny X-men line has gone on uninterrupted since its conception way back in the 70's (it actually started as plain "X-men" and then they changed the name) the X-men title had a restart as a separate title at some point in the 90's.

If that was the reason, that would make Raven a truly despicable human being. Sinister kind of became what he is because he lost his family. Magneto's first daughter dying had a profound effect on his perception of the world, not to mention he never knew he had twins out there fending for themselves. Yet Mystique couldn't take the pressure and got rid of her son and continually avoids him? Thumbs down.

Well, Mystique's not exactly known for being a good person. Or a very sane one.

[Elias Bogan]

Nightcrawler has been a consistent member of Uncanny since issue 394, from about 6 years ago, and he hasn't had a decent story in all that time. In fact, I think the last good Nightcrawler issue or even scene was Uncanny 450-451 where he flirts with Rachel and then has a conversation with Logan about it. But since he's literally done nothing.

[EnDwiGast]

yeah thats what i was afraid off. The X-men titles, never focus on him really, he just kind of stands around in the background it seems and talks once in a while. Thats the main reason i liked the Excalibur series so much. And i do like Kitty and Colossus too. Though ive the Nightcrawler Wiki page and mentions something in about him and angel co-leading, but im guessing thats a newer development.


He had his own ongoing for a short time. I never got around to it.

So did anything happen in there?

EDIT:

He had a recent solo series that lasted 12 issues. It was moderately well-written - by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa - but, imo, a complete misfire, theme-wise. Aguirre-Sacasa loves mystical, supernatural stories and tries to incorporate that theme into everything he writes, it seems. So he had Kurt be a supernatural detective, despite Kurt having no real connection to the supernatural. It seems a bunch of people liked it anyway, so you might want to check it out. I can't really recommend it, though. Aguirre-Sacasa's Kurt was pretty low-key, but cute in a kicked-puppy sort of way.


Answered!

[creaky]

Nightcrawler has been a consistent member of Uncanny since issue 394, from about 6 years ago, and he hasn't had a decent story in all that time. In fact, I think the last good Nightcrawler issue or even scene was Uncanny 450-451 where he flirts with Rachel and then has a conversation with Logan about it. But since he's literally done nothing.

Still can't figure out why.

Edited to add:
He had his own ongoing for a short time. I never got around to it.

So did anything happen in there?

He got Illyana's Soulsword, he punched Mephisto in the face and didn't have sex with Night Nurse. Oh, and he hunted ghosts.

[EnDwiGast]

Still can't figure out why.

Surprising considering how long X-Men has had 3 ongoing series.

I admit I haven't been a faithful X-Men fan for years. So I hadn't realized how bad its been for Nightcrawler until reading this thread.

My one attempt to catch up was to read the long awaited origin of Nightcrawler, and most of you can probably figure out how that went after I did......

[creaky]

My one attempt to catch up was to read the long awaited origin of Nightcrawler, and most of you can probably figure out how that went after I did......

You poor soul.:(

Maybe many writers just have trouble spinning stories around a character who's not easily violent, not easily angsty and doesn't have huge, cosmic powers. Especially when fans call for big, bombastic storylines. Could also be that the whole religious angle is hard to write properly for some.

[EnDwiGast]

You poor soul.:(

Maybe many writers just have trouble spinning stories around a character who's not easily violent, not easily angsty and doesn't have huge, cosmic powers. Especially when fans call for big, bombastic storylines. Could also be that the whole religious angle is hard to write properly for some.

Fortunately for every ten of those kind there will be one person who can actually write. But they spoil us.

Unfortunately the field seems to be full of wanna be Frank Millers.

[creaky]

Fortunately for every ten of those kind there will be one person who can actually write. But they spoil us.

Unfortunately the field seems to be full of wanna be Frank Millers.

Yeah. I wish more people would realize that angsty does not automatically make a good story. And what gets me is that even if Kurt isn't an instant conflict-maker in himself, there's external conflicts associated with him that could make for awesome stories. His relationship with his mother - heck, with BOTH his mothers - is the stuff you could probably spin a whole title around.

Same with his relationship with Wolverine, which I am dying for someone to take a closer look at. His best friend just happens to be one of the Marvel universe's biggest killers with the constant risk of going feral and yet Kurt never even wavers in his friendship? Why, is what I want to know. I can guess, but I think it's beyond time that it was explored more in-depth. It's neglected for no reason at all.

[EnDwiGast]

Having moral convictions and standing by them and even enjoying them is as interesting today, both in the comic book and real worlds as it has ever been.

Stumbling on occasion is realistic, but being in a constant state of stumbling isn't. It makes the pretense of heroic convictions a sham.

The interest has always been how does a hero with moral convictions interact with those who don't, those operating in a grey area, or those actively trying to undermine or compromise his or her own convictions.

Holding on to your principles is an unending goldmine for the kind of drama storytelling feeds off of. In today's world its rare enough that seeing it is refreshing and novel.

There is absolutely room for the angst-filled and the anti-hero. But i just can't shake the feeling that either Marvel believes they should pretty much all be that way, thats all the market will support, or they just don't have enough writers capable of pulling it off.

[Frank]

By all means do, but if you're a nIghtcrawler fan you probably won't like it.

All the development that Kurt received in Excalibur, the leadership calibre and self-confidence, was effectively ignored when he rejoined the x-Men, Kitty and Poitr suffered similar fates. Kitty was effectively de-aged by several years and Colossus just went back to standing in the background again.

All three characters return in the Hunt for Xavier storyline, but do not really make much of an impact, sadly. Kurt doesn't get much of a look in until 2000s Revolution event - but at that point you find he quit the X-Men to study to become a priest.

It all went a bit wrong...:(

That is the sad story of the X-Men post-Claremont. I don't remember having seen good Kurt Wagner stories post-Alan Davis Excalibur.

Forget Clandestine: I want Alan Davis to get his hands on Nightcrawler again.

[foxfire]

Same with his relationship with Wolverine, which I am dying for someone to take a closer look at. His best friend just happens to be one of the Marvel universe's biggest killers with the constant risk of going feral and yet Kurt never even wavers in his friendship? Why, is what I want to know. I can guess, but I think it's beyond time that it was explored more in-depth. It's neglected for no reason at all.

wow, that's a damn good point. usually the only reason the two are paired together is their mutual love of beer....

[Dragonheart]

Surprising considering how long X-Men has had 3 ongoing series.

I admit I haven't been a faithful X-Men fan for years. So I hadn't realized how bad its been for Nightcrawler until reading this thread.

My one attempt to catch up was to read the long awaited origin of Nightcrawler, and most of you can probably figure out how that went after I did......

what issues were about that?

[Kaos]

Same with his relationship with Wolverine, which I am dying for someone to take a closer look at. His best friend just happens to be one of the Marvel universe's biggest killers with the constant risk of going feral and yet Kurt never even wavers in his friendship? Why, is what I want to know. I can guess, but I think it's beyond time that it was explored more in-depth. It's neglected for no reason at all.

Yeah......it is quite the mystery.
I reckon his relationship with Rogue should be explored more...as they are siblings.

[jarrod]

I want Ellis or Carey to nab him... plz, plz, plz!

Whedon wanted him originally too iirc, but having Nightcrawler was suppossedly one of Davis' demands before he'd take Uncanny.

[countryfan2004]

Wow, I never realized how underused Nightcrawler has been. Really the X-books don't have much downtime these days for character development- it's non-stop action. It seems that Carey has some of those moments; Brubaker....definitely not. Whedon does I think, but moreso at the beginning of Astonishing, I guess to establish character relationships to make for tensions later. Ellis would be great of course in handling Nightcrawler. I hope that Brubaker allows Nighty to switch over. Brubaker can't handle more than three characters.

As for Nightcrawler's character, I don't mind the whole priest thing, but if you're going to do that, make it something active for his character. It was established and occasionally mentioned, but does it have an effect on his actions, do his beliefs ever conflict with what he must do? Need depth! If the priest thing is touched upon, drop it, but through some emotional journey. Maybe make him go a little darker at first then have his old friends bring him back up and return to his old self. He's always been compassionate, wise, a jokester. But now he's just there to cast doubt on another character's decisions. He doesn't even serve any other purpose.

[creaky]

Multiple posts.

[creaky]

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[creaky]

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[creaky]

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[creaky]

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[creaky]

Double - triple - quadruple post?? $#%$ board. Can a moderator delete the superfluous posts?

[creaky]

wow, that's a damn good point. usually the only reason the two are paired together is their mutual love of beer....

The beer thing doesn't quite cut it. And the thing about them both being loners only stretches so far, imo. It does seem to me that they're both actually quite similar when you look past the obvious differences, but that's never really been touched upon. And reading scenes like the one in X-men Liberators #4 - where Kurt is digging through graves in the Siberian tundra for Logan's body in extreme cold until his hands bleed or the '95 Wolverine annual and Uncanny #451, where Kurt is beside himself at finding Logan injured...
I mean, yes, Kurt has a heart the size of a barn, but really - healing factor! If I didn't know better, I'd say he was in love with the runt. Especially considering the treatment Logan has given him at times. Logan is clearly getting a lot more out of that deal than Kurt ever has. So why the attachment? Aren't there better friends for Kurt around the mansion? Is he perhaps just a sucker for punishment? Is Logan a replacement for Stefan? What little we've seen of Stefan, he seemed to be a jerk and yet Kurt adored him. It doesn't seem healthy. I want a peek into Kurt's head, please. A well-written peek.

Yeah......it is quite the mystery.
I reckon his relationship with Rogue should be explored more...as they are siblings.

I'd like that, too.

what issues were about that?

Hoo boy. Uncanny #428-#434. It is Austen, though, and the arc is infamously bad. Read at your own risk.

I'm glad Kurt is returning to swashbuckling. I just hope writers will remember that there are other sides to him as well. Too often, writers only stick to one trait - under Bru he's ONLY nice, under others, he's ONLY a jokester or ONLY wise and so on. He's definitely complex, but I wish more writers would see him as an actual, well-rounded person and not just an iconic image or cute mascot.

[Pro]

If that was the reason, that would make Raven a truly despicable human being.

OMG, now Mystique is not despicable but misunderstood as well?? The woman is shown to cackle evilly after slicing open people's throats open for christ sakes ..

[creaky]

OMG, now Mystique is not despicable but misunderstood as well?? The woman is shown to cackle evilly after slicing open people's throats open for christ sakes ..

Not to mention stabbing and shooting her foster daughter etc. Yeah, I don't have much sympathy for Mystique and Bobby lost brownie points in my book when he slept with her. (I thought Carey LIKED Bobby! Why did he have him act like a horny moron?)

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I'm just glad Brubaker is using him in a core story. I haven't read a long term Nightcrawler story in who knows when.

[creaky]

I'm just glad Brubaker is using him in a core story. I haven't read a long term Nightcrawler story in who knows when.

Is he really using him, though? Kurt's just tagging along with Xavier and doesn't seem to have any impact on the story at all.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

We'll see how it all ends. It's rather he join Xavier on this than sit out and become MIA until the Messiah Complex kicks into effect. Haven't you noticed how Crawler keeps calling Xavier on how he's using his powers without conscience? From when he took the info from Valerie's mind to the cop at the gravesite who saw Magneto. It's like Nightcrawler is the moral compass of the story.

[creaky]

We'll see how it all ends. It's rather he join Xavier on this than sit out and become MIA until the Messiah Complex kicks into effect. Haven't you noticed how Crawler keeps calling Xavier on how he's using his powers without conscience? From when he took the info from Valerie's mind to the cop at the gravesite who saw Magneto. It's like Nightcrawler is the moral compass of the story.

Yeah, it would be nice, though, if Xavier actually listened to the moral compass.

[Lobsterdom]

The recently released "X-Men: The Return" by Chris Roberson was quite an entertaining read.
Its not a comic, but its got the ever-joking kickass Nightcrawler old fans love.
I like how novels have more creative freedom to give insights on the characters' pschology/thoughts...for a complex character like Kurt, maybe novels are the best format to explore his mind/life.

[creaky]

The recently released "X-Men: The Return" by Chris Roberson was quite an entertaining read.
Its not a comic, but its got the ever-joking kickass Nightcrawler old fans love.
I like how novels have more creative freedom to give insights on the characters' pschology/thoughts...for a complex character like Kurt, maybe novels are the best format to explore his mind/life.

Hmm. I've been reluctant to get it, but maybe I should. I'm not sure about novels. Perhaps there's a point to that, but then, Kurt's also a very visual character.
My dream would be to see him picked up by a really good writer who gets his complex nature and can make him grow combined with an artist who can show both his human side and his alien side. It would be nice to see a good artist playing around with the whole "disappearing in shadows" bit. There's so much potential for beauty there. *sigh* If only someone actually made an effort.

[Pro]

I'd like to see Kurt as part of a european team, possibly leading it.

[Karl H]

I'd like to see Kurt as part of a european team, possibly leading it.

That would work.

He is criminally under used at the moment.

I blame the whole religious angle that was just overplayed too much. It's made it difficult to take him away from it.

Plus, since coming back from Excalibur he's basically been the leader who's surplus to requirements.

Maybe he could take a permanent role as coach/ mentor to the New X-men team. Leaves Cyke and Emma to do their thang in Astonishing and with the Limbo type elements introduced in the previous arc would be a great way of keeping him around and hopefully developing him - plus, it would probably attract more readers to New X-men.

[mcgaffer]

I think Kurt's and Logan's friendship really stems from their early days when they debuted as members of the second wave. Wolvie had always been a bit of a loner and the X-Men were a bit cool towards him at first (apart from Jean). Kurt understands what its like to be a loner and his appearance has distanced several X-Men when first met too.

Kurt and Wolvie's friendship started to develop into a brotherly bond after Kitty wrecked the Danger Room and the X-Men were forced to invent their own training regimes. Kurt and Wolvie were the only two to have a really serious go at this, hunting each other in the woods and having mock battles. The loser (inevitably Kurt) buys the beers. (Marvel seriously missed out on some golden comedy moments if they could have shown Kurt tricking Wolvie and beating him, and in later years they would occasionaly refer to some prank they had pulled which i really wish had seen print.)

In combat Kurt and Wolvie were starting to get paired together as well. Their unique training regimes had led them to be perfect foils for each other in combat. Something Marvel has'nt kept up with. Something else as well is that Colossus had really started to gel with the lads too. Nightcrawler and Logan had started inviting Colossus along and the three of them became really good friends ( i keep waiting for Marvel to do a special with these three and Juggernaut back at the bar they trashed because i could really see Juggernaut getting on well with these three).

Also when Sabretooth, Lady Deathstrike and Omega Red went after Kurt they described Kurt as Wolvies best friend/brother. Ultimately when either of these two have a bad day it's straight to the bar and they talk it out, no matter what you've seen in the comics these two go to the wall for each other, i just wish Marvel would remember it sometimes.

[Pro]

I read somnething about Kurt having Magic's soulsword inside him? Haven't read that story i think but if true i can imagine a storyarc where Magic will go after him to retrieve her soul as she stated in New x-men 41.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Yeah, it would be nice, though, if Xavier actually listened to the moral compass.

Xavier has been on a downward spiral for quite some time. Nightcrawler is very loyal to him though. Not as angry about his decisions as the others are. I wouldn't mind them going in depth over why in the end.

[jarrod]

I read somnething about Kurt having Magic's soulsword inside him? Haven't read that story i think but if true i can imagine a storyarc where Magic will go after him to retrieve her soul as she stated in New x-men 41.
I've got all my fingers/toes crossed that Ellis picks it (and Kurt) up for Astonishing SS. He's handled Limbo, and all the core characetrs involved (minus Illyana) before rather well, so here's to hoping...

[Schuimend Mormel]

I think Kurt's and Logan's friendship really stems from their early days when they debuted as members of the second wave. Wolvie had always been a bit of a loner and the X-Men were a bit cool towards him at first (apart from Jean). Kurt understands what its like to be a loner and his appearance has distanced several X-Men when first met too.

Kurt and Wolvie's friendship started to develop into a brotherly bond after Kitty wrecked the Danger Room and the X-Men were forced to invent their own training regimes. Kurt and Wolvie were the only two to have a really serious go at this, hunting each other in the woods and having mock battles. The loser (inevitably Kurt) buys the beers. (Marvel seriously missed out on some golden comedy moments if they could have shown Kurt tricking Wolvie and beating him, and in later years they would occasionaly refer to some prank they had pulled which i really wish had seen print.)

In combat Kurt and Wolvie were starting to get paired together as well. Their unique training regimes had led them to be perfect foils for each other in combat. Something Marvel has'nt kept up with. Something else as well is that Colossus had really started to gel with the lads too. Nightcrawler and Logan had started inviting Colossus along and the three of them became really good friends ( i keep waiting for Marvel to do a special with these three and Juggernaut back at the bar they trashed because i could really see Juggernaut getting on well with these three).

Also when Sabretooth, Lady Deathstrike and Omega Red went after Kurt they described Kurt as Wolvies best friend/brother. Ultimately when either of these two have a bad day it's straight to the bar and they talk it out, no matter what you've seen in the comics these two go to the wall for each other, i just wish Marvel would remember it sometimes.

This is a great description of their friendship. Actually there's a lot of good Wolvie/Kurt moments scattered all over Claremont's early years. For instance, way back, when Wolverine attacks the demon Kierrok because the latter had just knocked Nightcrawler unconscious, and Wolverine says 'The misfit may be a misfit, but he's Wolverine's friend.'

And later, right after Dark Phoenix, when Kurt and Wolvie go to Canada and end up helping Alpha Flight defeat the Wendigo, and Kurt asks Wolverine if HE shouldn't atone for the murders he committed, as well (like the Wendigo), and makes Logan reconsider his ways for a while.

It's also a Kurt/Wolvie scene where we get Kurt's first BLATANT religious moment. And Wolvie says he never figured Kurt to be the religious type, and then continues saying that praying to a god is not for him, because he has no use for imagination. And Nightcrawler notes how lonely he must be for this, but Wolverine says he's not lonely; he's got Kurt. The friendship has been built out over the years. Which is why it's so strong and realistic.

[Mikl C]

This is a great description of their friendship. Actually there's a lot of good Wolvie/Kurt moments scattered all over Claremont's early years. For instance, way back, when Wolverine attacks the demon Kierrok because the latter had just knocked Nightcrawler unconscious, and Wolverine says 'The misfit may be a misfit, but he's Wolverine's friend.'


MEGA LOLZ!
one

[creaky]

I'd like to see Kurt as part of a european team, possibly leading it.

I don't know. I think I'd rather see him actually get used in the X-men or have him out on his own so he can grow without constantly having to react to everyone else's problems.

Xavier has been on a downward spiral for quite some time. Nightcrawler is very loyal to him though. Not as angry about his decisions as the others are. I wouldn't mind them going in depth over why in the end.

I think it was established at the beginning of Deadly Genesis why Kurt feels so loyal to Xavier - that he saved him from the mob, gave him a new life and taught him that he wasn't the monster people saw him as. And Kurt's always been very understanding in general. I wouldn't mind a peek into Kurt's mind, though.

I read somnething about Kurt having Magic's soulsword inside him? Haven't read that story i think but if true i can imagine a storyarc where Magic will go after him to retrieve her soul as she stated in New x-men 41.

He got the Soulsword in his solo series. It was either Amanda or Margali that hid it in him.

I think Kurt's and Logan's friendship really stems from their early days when they debuted as members of the second wave. Wolvie had always been a bit of a loner and the X-Men were a bit cool towards him at first (apart from Jean). Kurt understands what its like to be a loner and his appearance has distanced several X-Men when first met too.

(...)

Also when Sabretooth, Lady Deathstrike and Omega Red went after Kurt they described Kurt as Wolvies best friend/brother. Ultimately when either of these two have a bad day it's straight to the bar and they talk it out, no matter what you've seen in the comics these two go to the wall for each other, i just wish Marvel would remember it sometimes.

Yeah, their friendship has been shown continuously - mostly in Uncanny - but for some reason, no one ever goes in-depth with it. And when I see stuff Logan does in his own series, I have to wonder: what would Kurt's reaction be to this? Would he understand, forgive and forget or would he think Logan's crossed the line? That line in Wolverine#6, where he says he would die trying to stop Logan if he ever became a true monster...it's just begging to be followed up on. Just like what he said in Wolverine #140, that he sometimes felt like he didn't know Logan, like all the horrible things he'd been put through in his life had made him so guarded and closed off that no one could truly understand what he's about. Drama!

(...)
It's also a Kurt/Wolvie scene where we get Kurt's first BLATANT religious moment. And Wolvie says he never figured Kurt to be the religious type, and then continues saying that praying to a god is not for him, because he has no use for imagination. And Nightcrawler notes how lonely he must be for this, but Wolverine says he's not lonely; he's got Kurt. The friendship has been built out over the years. Which is why it's so strong and realistic.

Yeah. I loved all those moments and this last one in particular. (Another small favorite is in the fourth Uncanny annual when Logan gives Kurt a framed picture of himself for a birthday present.)
Is a Wolverine/Nightcrawler mini/arc too much to ask after all this time? Written by Ellis?

[steve2275]

throw in peter too

[steve2275]

throw in peter too

[steve2275]

throw in peter too

[creaky]

throw in peter too

If they could pull off balancing all three characters without anyone being left out, then sure. However, Kurt ended up being the frightened sidekick of the big macho Logan and Piotr the last time they tried that (X-men: Liberators) and though Excalibur was mentioned, it was clear the writers had no idea just what Excalibur had done to Kurt's character.

Yeah, I'm bitter. Hiss.

[Schuimend Mormel]

Is a Wolverine/Nightcrawler mini/arc too much to ask after all this time? Written by Ellis?

I'd be content if they'd just put Nightcrawler and Wolverine on the same X-Men team. Maybe Nightcrawler could move on to Astonishing. As it is, Ellis is going to write Astonishing as of next year anyway.

[streator]

I'd be content if they'd just put Nightcrawler and Wolverine on the same X-Men team. Maybe Nightcrawler could move on to Astonishing. As it is, Ellis is going to write Astonishing as of next year anyway.

same team here.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4811/uxm492acolorsv1as5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[creaky]

I'd be content if they'd just put Nightcrawler and Wolverine on the same X-Men team.

Yeah, that'd do, as long as there was actual interaction between them. I would just like to see an arc dedicated solely to them for once. There are questions I want answered and there's too little friendship overall in today's comics.