Grant Morrison Rumor--OLD

[StrikeForce Albert]

I remember a while back that Grant Morrison had a falling out with somebody because the rumor going around was the the writer ripped off alot of Grant Morrison's notes for a series he did.

Anybody remember this?

[king mob]

Are you meaning the tiff between Morrison & Mark Millar?

[Lurch]

You may be thinking of the tiff that happened regarding The Invisibles/Matrix films. I found this over at killermovies.com:

Grant Morrison views on "The Matrix" "X-men" "Superman"
Discuss...
Link:
http://suicidegirls.com/words/Grant+Morrison/


DRE: This may be old news but was the controversy over The Matrix films being like The Invisibles blown out of proportion?

GM: It's really simple. The truth of that one is that design staff on The Matrix were given Invisibles collections and told to make the movie look like my books. This is a reported fact. The Wachowskis are comic book creators and fans and were fans of my work, so it's hardly surprising. I was even contacted before the first Matrix movie was released and asked if I would contribute a story to the website.

It's not some baffling 'coincidence' that so much of The Matrix is plot by plot, detail by detail, image by image, lifted from Invisibles so there shouldn't be much controversy. The Wachowskis nicked The Invisibles and everyone in the know is well aware of this fact but of course they're unlikely to come out and say it.

It was just too bad they deviated so far from the Invisibles philosophical template in the second and third movies because they blundered helplessly into boring Catholic theology, proving that they hadn't HAD the 'contact' experience that drove The Invisibles, and they wrecked both
'Reloaded' and 'Revolutions' on the rocks of absolute incomprehension. They should have kept on stealing from me and maybe they would have wound up with something to really be proud of - a movie that could change minds and hearts and worlds.

I love the first Matrix movie which I think is a real work of cinematic genius and very timely but I've now heard from several people who worked on The Matrix and they've all confirmed that they were given Invisibles books as reference. That's how it is. I'm not angry about it anymore, although at one time I was because they made millions from what was basically a Xerox of my work and to be honest, I would be happy with just one million so I didn't have to work thirteen hours of every ****ing day, including weekends.

In the end, I was glad they got the ideas out but very disappointed that they blew it so badly and distorted all the Gnostic transcendental aspects that made the first film so strong and potent. If they had any sense, they would have befriended me instead of pissing me off. They seem like nice boys.

[StrikeForce Albert]

I knew about he Matrix stuff

maybe I'm mixing that and some other writer up though

[diablo7]

i didn't know morrison and millar have a tiff.

[Indigo Al]

Yes, it's in reference to Mark Millar.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Mark Millar you say?
Ripping of Grant Morrions?
My god, thats earth shattering


..........If you've never read a Mark Millar comic book

Yeah, i went there

[CBikle]

I wonder if the series was Marvel Boy ?

[dancj]

Morrison wrote a whole issue of The Authority in Millar's run, but was never credited with it.

It might be to do with that

[Joe Rice]

Morrison wrote a whole issue of The Authority in Millar's run, but was never credited with it.

It might be to do with that

The circular ending (and best bit) for Red Son was his, too.

[dancj]

Yeah but that was an ending Morrison suggested to Millar so I don't think there's anything for them to fall out over there.

[Lurch]

I know the story in question; And it never struck me as a Morrison script. Morrison's stuff tends to be more character driven and obtuse. That Millar (Or Morrison story,) seemed like the same old same old Millar. Action-packed, but a bit base a jam-packed with overt sex and violence.

That's not a criticism, mind you. Hell, I enjoy a Jet Li film as much as the next guy, let alone Tarantino's stuff. (And I am in no way making a comparison between Tarantino and Millar, mind you.)

I just don't see the connection. Perhaps Morrison simply plotted it and was unhappy with the end result. Let's face it, Ellis was an extremely difficult act to follow, even for Grant.

[david r]

Mark Millar must like to rip-off other people's ideas. He did the same thing with Chris Claremont's planned Dark Wolverine epic, planned for X-Men in the early 1990s.

Millar's ENEMY OF THE STATE was way too similiar to Claremont's plots.

[RichStanz]

Morrison wrote a whole issue of The Authority in Millar's run, but was never credited with it.

It might be to do with that

I just don't see the connection. Perhaps Morrison simply plotted it and was unhappy with the end result.

Mark Millar must like to rip-off other people's ideas.

To be fair, Morrison helped out Millar on ghost-writing, and there was no fall-out over who got credited for it.
"A couple of weeks after publication, news broke that Grant Morrison had secretly written the original script for the issue as a favor to Mark Millar, who was in the hospital with what doctors thought was cancer. Millar had then somewhat rewritten the script in accordance with his own and DC's desires."
http://www.sequart.com/authorityMILLAR.htm

And Morrison has always said that he gave Millar ideas for Red Son:
"The best Superman idea I ever had, I gave to Mark Millar for the conclusion of Red Son, so I've been forced to try even harder to do something even better here."
http://www.newsarama.com/DC/AS/AllStarSuperman_Morrison.htm

I don't recall ever reading anything about a falling out between the two, especially over Millar stealing ideas from Grant.

The only problems I've ever read about for Grant were towards Bill Jemas over the treatment of his "Marvel Boy" pitch, and WB regarding the Invisibles/Matrix connection.

I knew about he Matrix stuff

maybe I'm mixing that and some other writer up though

I think that is what is going on here. I don't think Millar is a rip-off artist.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Mark Millar must like to rip-off other people's ideas. He did the same thing with Chris Claremont's planned Dark Wolverine epic, planned for X-Men in the early 1990s.

Millar's ENEMY OF THE STATE was way too similiar to Claremont's plots.

The question is.... could Miller have found out about it or did he stumble into the entire thing by luck ? Remember Brubaker's 3rd Summers brother discovery and how he had no clue that Marvel actually in the 1990's had a plan for that involving another character ? That he was suprised when he heard about it.

[Jack Zodiac]

Goddamn, I love those British writers. I think Ellis was the one who said they all constantly tried to outdo each other: him, Morrison, and Millar. And they all wrote better and better for it.

Except Millar...

[Punch]

so how does Red Son end? What was the great Superman idea Grant had?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Goddamn, I love those British writers. I think Ellis was the one who said they all constantly tried to outdo each other: him, Morrison, and Millar. And they all wrote better and better for it.

Except Millar...

Hey.... don't knock the guy. Civil War made him a lotta jack. I'd write it to for the pay day. ;)

[Jack Zodiac]

so how does Red Son end? What was the great Superman idea Grant had?

Really huge spoilers.

At the end of Red Son, Luthor finally rids Earth of Superman by having him remove the threat of Brainiac from our galaxy. Thinking Superman dead in a fiery explosion far from our solar system, Lex is free to focus his time and energy on mankind's flourishing. He cures all known disease, unifies the world under one global politic, extends the lifespan of human beings by centuries, creates a world of peace and unity and science.

Superman returns to Earth some time around Lex Luthor's eventual death in his mid-hundred and twenties and pretends to live life as a normal human being again. Over time, Earth's sun becomes a red sun as it expands and cools, and life on Earth purposely begins mimicking life on Krypton, right down to the architecture and fashion. All of Luthor's descendants lead the world, generation after generation, eventually becoming such a regime that they become the "House of L." And at the very end of the book, his great-to-whateverthehell-power grandson, Jor-L, recognizing that their planet is doomed, sends his and his wife, Lara's son Kal-L back in time to the 1930s, where apparently his so-far-advanced human physiology will absorb yellow sunlight and make him superhuman.

Really, even if Grant completely threw the idea right in his face, Millar at least wrote it incredibly well.

[Titan76]

Mark Millar must like to rip-off other people's ideas. He did the same thing with Chris Claremont's planned Dark Wolverine epic, planned for X-Men in the early 1990s.

Millar's ENEMY OF THE STATE was way too similiar to Claremont's plots.
From what I have heard Millar ask Claremont if he didn't mind if he did his EotS story which basically was Claremont's Dark Wolverine saga story and Claremont said he didn't mind at all.

Remember Brubaker's 3rd Summers brother discovery and how he had no clue that Marvel actually in the 1990's had a plan for that involving another character ? That he was suprised when he heard about it.
Really, I never knew this. I remember when DG ended and we were discussing it on the X-board and Brubaker got in on the discussion for a little bit and I ask him about how he plans to use Sinister in this since he was the one who announce there was a 3rd Summers brother a while back and he never answer that part of my question. Guess I know why now.

[thehod]

I'm more interested when Morrison will pull his thumb outta his butt over the problems with reprinting Zenith.

[king mob]

I don't recall ever reading anything about a falling out between the two, especially over Millar stealing ideas from Grant.



There was a tiff but it wasn't a 'fuck you, ya bastard' type falling out.

[king mob]

Goddamn, I love those British writers. I think Ellis was the one who said they all constantly tried to outdo each other: him, Morrison, and Millar. And they all wrote better and better for it.

Except Millar...


Mark gets a lot of stick. Most of it is unfair as there are much, much worse out there, plus when he's good (his Swamp Thing & Big Dave with Grant, Saviour and Ultimates for example) he's very good.

The problem is when he's poor (Wanted sums up everything that Mark does wrong in comics) he's very poor. However, most of the time he's a solid, often entertaining writer who still clearly loves the superhero genre &tries to at least make the genre something that's enjoyable.

[thehod]

Mark gets a lot of stick. Most of it is unfair as there are much, much worse out there, plus when he's good (his Swamp Thing & Big Dave with Grant, Saviour and Ultimates for example) he's very good.

The problem is when he's poor (Wanted sums up everything that Mark does wrong in comics) he's very poor. However, most of the time he's a solid, often entertaining writer who still clearly loves the superhero genre &tries to at least make the genre something that's enjoyable.

Just as long as he stays the hell away from Robo-Hunter, Mark Millar's alright by me.

[Jack Zodiac]

Mark gets a lot of stick. Most of it is unfair as there are much, much worse out there, plus when he's good (his Swamp Thing & Big Dave with Grant, Saviour and Ultimates for example) he's very good.

The problem is when he's poor (Wanted sums up everything that Mark does wrong in comics) he's very poor. However, most of the time he's a solid, often entertaining writer who still clearly loves the superhero genre &tries to at least make the genre something that's enjoyable.

I thought his Swamp Thing and Red Son were truly awesome, but his Ultimates was mediocre and slowly got worse, and his Authority was truly awful. And then there's Civil War, which even after reading his original plot before editorial went nuts on it still wasn't good.

When he's good, he's good, but I haven't seen a whole lot more good from him that mediocre and crap.

[dancj]

I've never failed to enjoy a Mark Millar story and at times (Ultimates, Red Son, Swamp Thing) he's excellent

[Paul McEnery]

(Wanted sums up everything that Mark does wrong in comics)
.

You have got to be kidding.

Wanted is the bee's knees. Astro City meets American Psycho. I am happy with it. To say the least.

[Paul McEnery]

I'm more interested when Morrison will pull his thumb outta his butt over the problems with reprinting Zenith.

I'm more interested in people actually understanding that Morrison doesn't have any bloody say in it because it's all in the copyright lawyers hands.

[brundlefly]

(Wanted sums up everything that Mark does wrong in comics)


You have got to be kidding.

Wanted is the bee's knees. Astro City meets American Psycho. I am happy with it. To say the least.

Truth, although I thought the last page "this is my face..." bit was just gratuitous. Civil War, MK Spider-Man, and Wolverine: Enemy of the State are the books that sum up everything Millar does wrong in comics, imo.

[Jack Zodiac]

Meanwhile, Deadpool: Enema of the State is everything right in comics.

[brundlefly]

Meanwhile, Deadpool: Enema of the State is everything right in comics.

Oh, I wholeheartedly concur with that statement...

[king mob]

You have got to be kidding.

Wanted is the bee's knees. Astro City meets American Psycho. I am happy with it. To say the least.

I hated it. It was like listening to a kid who'd learned the word 'cunt' & tried to cram it in at every opportunity.

[Kid Omega]

I hated it. It was like listening to a kid who'd learned the word 'cunt' & tried to cram it in at every opportunity.

I hated it too.

The plot was insipid, the characters were cardboard, and it was so full of unironic macho horseshit it made me nauseous.

Miserably bad.

[The Xenos]

Well, it was Mark Millar doing a bad Eminem impersonation, so I guess that's why it was like that. Know what I'm sayin'? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LfNDXuEZu4) Really, anyone else the lame attention grab Millar tried by making the character look and act like Eminem and then trying to sell it to Hollywood by linking the infamous rapper with the comic?

[HipsterDad]

Just as long as he stays the hell away from Robo-Hunter, Mark Millar's alright by me.

His Robo-Hunter was indeed the worst thing in the universe, but on the other hand, I'm rereading his and Grant's Judge Dredd story "Crusade" and it is very, very close.

[The Xenos]

A little off topic. I just saw a copy onine of an obscure Morrison tale from 2000 AD's Crisis mag. It was called The New Adventures of Hitler. One scene had Morrisey from The Smiths appearing in his wardrobe.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6852/crisis46hitler03cropvk1.jpg

It was... interesting.. I doubt this is out and reprint in the US.

[king mob]

The New Adventures Of Hitler was fucking great & is one of Morrison's best works (along with St. Swithins Day and Dare) that rarely gets any attention at all.

[Paul McEnery]

I hated it. It was like listening to a kid who'd learned the word 'cunt' & tried to cram it in at every opportunity.

But I am the bad uncle who teaches your child to do that. Therefore it amuses me.

[dancj]

His Robo-Hunter was indeed the worst thing in the universe, but on the other hand, I'm rereading his and Grant's Judge Dredd story "Crusade" and it is very, very close.

Millar + Morrison have written rubbish when they've teamed up together and Crusade is about the worst example of that. With the exception of Big Dave both writers are much better solo than when they're together.

Millar's Robo Hunter wasn't bad. It just wasn't Robo-Hunter