Erik's collumn #81 [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

DonC

08-13-2007, 09:48 AM

I'm sure that the 2 Savage Dragon fans out there on the planet, weren't terribly inconvenienced by the aspiring artists and writers, standing patiently in line to get some constructive criticism from the likes of a Kirby Panel legend, like yourself, Erik.

I'm sure that the people, standing in line, to show you their hard-labored work, realize that they have some room to improve, and I'm sure they didn't expect to instantly glean your vast skills as an artist/master storyteller(if you don't believe me just pick up an issue of Erik's groundbreaking masterpiece, Freak Force...look in the quarter comic bins, for those), in those precious few moments.

But, hey, I guess it's your God given right as one of the head honchos over at Image to call people who dare to dream of being like you someday "basket cases". I'm sure when you threw their submissions down on the convention table, and called it "wretched" they weren't nearly as disappointed as we all were when Marvel replaced Todd McFarlane on Amazing Spider-man, with you.

Keep up the great work, hosebag!

Well, I see somebody missed the point Erik was trying to make. Portfolio reviews take time. A lot of time. It isn't fair for someone to sneak into an autograph line and say, "Hey, Erik, can you check out my proposal" while there are people waiting in line for autographs and maybe a quick sketch.

There's a time and a place for everything. Autograph sessions are for autographs. Portfolio reviews are for portfolio reviews.

And Erik's right on another thing: Most of the wannabe artists out there are crap. Just because your buddies at D&D night think your artwork is cool doesn't mean you're a professional-caliber artist. However, you try telling that to some wannabe artist and all you'll get is "What an asshole" or "The dude doesn't know what he's taking about." You see, every wannabe artist out there thinks he or she is the next Big Thing.

There's a thing here at CBR called Comic Book Idol. It's coming back soon. Check it out when it's back. It's amazing how many times the professionals just tore apart a piece of artwork I thought was great. It was a real learning experience for me, just as a fan, to see what the people whose job is looking at submissions looked for in artwork.

Mr. Natural

08-13-2007, 06:53 PM

No, sir, you're the one who's missing the point!

You see, Erik was lying when he said that he's tired of people trying to pitch their books to him at his autograph session. He loves it, because it gives him an excuse to be a rude jerk to those that he sees as his inferiors, and the 4 people with submissions extends his line to 6.

Most comics artists/writers are very nice people, and would've kindly said, "No, I'm sorry, but I can't review your work right now, but you can make an appointment/stand in that line over there, etc. that way someone will be able to take the time to give you some quality feedback yada yada yada". There's no need to be so hostile and treat people the way Erik does.

Yes, there are a lot of wannabe artists out there, but so what? Why is Erik so threatened by them, that he feels the need to use his position of power to squash their hopes like gnats under his clamy white hands?? Hmmm..I know why. He's afraid that another young "wannabe artist" will walk away from the SDCC with a positive/enlightening experience, and will continue to grow as an artist.(think of Dave Cooper's early work at AirCel, compared to his later work at Fantagraphics for case in point.) The more good artists there are in the comics industry, the less room there is on comics shelves for crap like The Savage Dragon.

By the way, Mr. DonC, I smell some serious Dungeon Master BO coming from your direction. Is Erik your favorite LVL 50 Night Elf Paladin..?

It all makes sense now...

DonC

08-13-2007, 08:13 PM

For the sake of this reply, I've removed your pointless name-calling. I hope you don't mind.

I would also like to point out that the purpose of this thread was a fan's expression of "Damn straight!" at Erik's vocal dismay when people submit unsolicited comics to him at convention signings. Especially given the poor quality of some of the books.

Most comics artists/writers are very nice people, and would've kindly said, "No, I'm sorry, but I can't review your work right now, but you can make an appointment/stand in that line over there, etc. that way someone will be able to take the time to give you some quality feedback yada yada yada". There's no need to be so hostile and treat people the way Erik does.

Have you ever actually witnessed Erik doing a portfolio review? Especially one in which Erik has acted in a hostile manner?

Yes, there are a lot of wannabe artists out there, but so what? Why is Erik so threatened by them, that he feels the need to use his position of power to squash their hopes like gnats under his clamy white hands??

Some people need to have their dreams squashed. Yeah, it's cruel to say, but it's the truth. There are tons of people out there working on submissions who have absolutely no talent whatsoever. Telling them straight up that they're never going to be a professional comic book artist is a hell of a lot nicer than stringing them along by saying they need to work on their perspective or layout designs.

By the way, Mr. DonC, I smell some serious Dungeon Master BO coming from your direction. Is Erik your favorite LVL 50 Night Elf Paladin..?

It all makes sense now...

I left this attempt at insult in just so that I could point out that I don't read any of Erik's comics. I don't know him. I've only met him once, 15 years ago (in the Image Comics tent). I said I'd try Savage Dragon way back when another fanboy got a hard on for insulting Erik and I posted about it, but I never actually got around to buying any of the trades. Even the one I saw for $3.

Mr. Natural

08-13-2007, 09:02 PM

Hey, DonC, don't get your panties all up in a bunch. It's ok. What happens in the Image tent, stays in the Image tent...

How do I know that Erik's acting hostile to fans? Silly question. I'm the all knowing, Mr Natural! That's how i know. :p

Brad Barton

08-14-2007, 01:05 AM

Mr. Natural, did you create that account just so you could slam Erik incognito? Please believe I'm not attacking you, I genuinely want to know...

Was yours one of the submissions Erik wouldn't see? I may be wrong, but I detect a hint of bitterness to your posts.

Mr. Natural

08-14-2007, 02:09 AM

Nah, I just pop up where I'm needed, and the Erik slamming is just gravy. :cool:

the_coldest_sun

08-14-2007, 06:21 AM

Mr Natural = Mr David

The Scribe

08-14-2007, 12:30 PM

Mr Natural = Mr David

I thought Erik and David were over their feud?

Whoever "Mr. Natural" is he needs to move on. If you have talent eventually someone will pick you up. Those who rejected your work before will be sorry. There's your motivation. ;)

districtone11

08-14-2007, 12:36 PM

New poster. And yes. I have created this account specifically to reply to this thread.

As a further disclosure, I experienced Mr. Larsen's personality first hand when I was with a friend who attempted to show his book proposal to him and experienced a angry tongue lashing from an obviously bitter man (ie Erik Larsen).

I watched with utter amazement as Mr. Larsen, after a cursiory 30 second review, took it upon himself to completely belittle and insult the work. Dismissing it outright as though there was absolutely no hope for this guy to ever get the work in print. There was no learning experience from Mr. Larsen's actions, it was just a petty attack on someone who he felt was beneath him.

And for someone whose main claim to fame is creating the Savage Dragon, he should be careful of judging other's accomplishments. As far as I can see, Erik Larsen's artistic contribution to the artform is marginal at best. As for his role at Image Comics, he's the 21st century version of Jim Shooter. A man with a singular vision to keep comic books in the superhero and tights sub-genre.

If this was Mr. Larsen's only sin, he would be a simple fool-the comic book community is full of fools. But he's more than that, he's a hypocrite of the highest order. A couple of years ago, he wrote a manefesto in which he urged creators to follow their own voices. To not do the same old company owned creations. And yet, look at what he is crowing about in his newest column-taking public domain golden age characters and updating them.

To quote Mr. Larsen: "is this all you've got?"

Its easy to criticize creators and artists that they are not creating personal work. So why doesn't Mr. Larsen, as a publisher, walk the walk himself? What is he doing to create a community that encourages individual voices? Where are the minority voices at Image? The women? The non-superheroes? Or at least the non-superheroes who are not already established? If you look at the roster of Image, its about as safe as can be. Superheroes and related genre work. Established books with established audience (Liberty Meadows). Established writers working in safe genres (if the Walking Dead is as radical as you get-you're pretty conservative).

So where are the groundbreaking books? Its easy to tell creators not to take the easy way out, but as a publisher, you should be prepared to take the same risks.

But back to my friend's experience and Mr. Larsen's bitching about people pitching him at conventions.

Give me a break. How many Savage Dragon fans does he think there are in the world? The main reason why he has anyone in line to see him is to talk to him as a PUBLISHER. If he doesn't want to deal with those types of people, he should make a simple rule not to. A polite "Sorry, I don't do pitches. Send them to me at Image" or something along those lines. Once he opens himself up and starts to listen, why is it so difficult for him to show some manners and give people common courtesy and respect?

Its the difference between walking up to a celebrity and being told, "sorry, I'm a little busy right now, I can't sign autographs" and "fuck off you useless fan, I wish you pieces of shit would stop bothering me".

Its called "class", and that's something that Mr. Larsen lacks.

If Mr. Larsen doesn't want to be a publisher, he should quit and let someone who really loves the artform do the job. If he is a publisher and he goes to a convention, he should expect that people will pitch him ideas. It goes with the territory. His bitching about it is like Britney Spears crying that she can't get any privacy, all the while courting the press and sceaming "look at me".

The fact is, I went with my friend to at least a dozen different publishers and watched him pitch his ideas to them and not one of them were rude, arrogant jerks like Mr. Larsen. Even DC was polite when telling him that his project was not right for them. If all these other publishers can be polite and professional, why shouldn't Mr. Larsen? What makes him so special?

Eventually, my friend's project was picked up by a "mini-major" publisher. One of the top 7. All of Mr. Larsen's "expert opinions" were meaningless. The publisher loved the work and continues to promote it heavily-it has even been nominated for a number of industry awards.

So much for being a "basket case".

As for Mr. Larsen-Grow up and act like a man. If you want people to respect you-I would suggest that you show respect to others.

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-14-2007, 01:30 PM

Mr Natural = Mr David

Mr Natural = districtone11 = a person who needs something better to do to occupy their time

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-14-2007, 01:31 PM

New poster. And yes. I have created this account specifically to reply to this thread.

As for Mr. Larsen-Grow up and act like a man. If you want people to respect you-I would suggest that you show respect to others.

And may I suggest not hiding behind a screen name so that we can respect you for your opinion and not think you're a coward hiding behind a meaningless name?

districtone11

08-14-2007, 01:52 PM

And may I suggest not hiding behind a screen name so that we can respect you for your opinion and not think you're a coward hiding behind a meaningless name?

Should I post my telephone number and home address as well? Sounds to me like you're looking for a date.

Bitching about "people hiding behind screennames" on the internet is a meanless complaint. Screen names are standard practice on the internet for most message boards. You might as well complain that you have to pay taxes. Sorry you don't like the real world, but in the real world, most boards have people listed as screennames. As for mine, its the same one I've used on countless boards-as well as my Yahoo Account ID, which I've had for over five years.

Would my points be any more meaningful if I signed my post "John Smith" or "Alfred Crabapple". Your complaint is no more intelligent just because you signed it "Gavin Higginbotham". In fact, how are we to know that you are in fact Gavin Higginbotham? Care to prove that? How do we know you're not really Erik Larsen hiding behind a phony screen name?

Now, rather than trying to try and avoid my points by bringing up meanless objections, why don't you deal with what I actually said?

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-14-2007, 03:13 PM

Should I post my telephone number and home address as well?

Don't be silly.

Sounds to me like you're looking for a date.

You wish.

Bitching about "people hiding behind screennames" on the internet is a meanless complaint. Screen names are standard practice on the internet for most message boards. You might as well complain that you have to pay taxes. Sorry you don't like the real world, but in the real world, most boards have people listed as screennames. As for mine, its the same one I've used on countless boards-as well as my Yahoo Account ID, which I've had for over five years.

Yeah, well, I wasn't bitching that you're using a screen name. I was pointing out that posting under a screen name while talking crap about people is perhaps a bit cowardly. If you believe what you're saying, your opinion may mean more if there's an actual name behind rather than some mask.

Would my points be any more meaningful if I signed my post "John Smith" or "Alfred Crabapple". Your complaint is no more intelligent just because you signed it "Gavin Higginbotham". In fact, how are we to know that you are in fact Gavin Higginbotham? Care to prove that? How do we know you're not really Erik Larsen hiding behind a phony screen name?

It would show that you have courage over your convictions as you're not hiding behind a fake name. As for whether I'm Erik or not... well, that's not likely sadly. I live over the other side of the world, am 20ish years younger and if I did, I'd know what would happen in the next SAVAGE DRAGON.

As for who I am, I've got a myspace page which actually has me on it... under my real name. I'm quite happy that people know who I am.

Now, rather than trying to try and avoid my points by bringing up meanless objections, why don't you deal with what I actually said?

Because I wasn't there, I can't comment on whether Erik was a "jerk" or whatever. Maybe he was. I wasn't there. The point is, you're one of a VERY small minority that has said anything bad about Erik at a con whereas I've seen MANY more instances of people saying how great and friendly he is.

districtone11

08-14-2007, 04:37 PM

Because I wasn't there, I can't comment on whether Erik was a "jerk" or whatever. Maybe he was. I wasn't there. The point is, you're one of a VERY small minority that has said anything bad about Erik at a con whereas I've seen MANY more instances of people saying how great and friendly he is.

Glad to see that at least you admit you really have nothing intelligent to add to this conversation.

Some second hand reports that your read about hardly qualifies as any sort of real evidence. I've read lots of stories about people who have seen the Loch Ness Monster or were abducted by little green men, that hardly proves that either is true.

Your whole post would be considered logically invalid. Its all fallacy ("A fallacy is a component of an argument that is demonstrably flawed in its logic or form, thus rendering the argument invalid in whole"), from your Ad hominem attack on the fact that I have a screen name (rather than comment on the contents of my post) to your fallacious argument appealing to the masses("argumentum ad populum") that because many people believe something, it must be true.

As for your claims that VERY few people have experienced Erik Larsen's ill manners compared to what you claim is a vast majority who have basked in the riches of his generosity of spirit, I would say....

BULLSHIT.

a) Where do you get these facts from?

b) Lots of people met Ted Bundy and found him to be a charming individual. Does that make him any less of a murderer? Just because a few slavish fans (of which I suspect you are one) got a free sketch from the guy at a convention, hardly dismisses the words that he has written here and the actions other have reported on.

On second thought, skip answering those questions, you have already admitted that you know absolutely nothing on this subject.

Erik Larsen

08-14-2007, 04:54 PM

DonC

08-14-2007, 04:57 PM

districtone11

08-14-2007, 05:19 PM

And what, exactly, did Erik say? Did any of the other publishers hire your friend? Like I said a few posts ago to your other screen name, some people out there are working their asses off on submissions that will never, ever make it.

Sorry to burst your bubble-this is my only screen name.

To quote your hero-what's wrong with YOU?

I answered your question in the very same post you quoted me in. And if you are too stupid and/or lazy to bother to read something that you are replying to, don't expect others to do the work for you. What's the matter, your brain gave out after the first few paragraphs? Too many big words and you gave up?

Go back and read my post for the answer to your question.

Reading--try it some time. It might open up a whole new world for you. (considering how little Image respects writers-see their website for their official position on writers-its no wonder that its supporters have a difficult time with simple reading)

DonC

08-14-2007, 06:18 PM

I answered your question in the very same post you quoted me in.

All I saw was some "Erik was mean to my friend" crap. You were there; I want quotes. What did Erik allegedly say?

And quit being an asshole.

Mr. Natural

08-14-2007, 06:47 PM

Erik said...
What is wrong with you?

C'mon, Erik. You can do better than that. Your 2 fans are going to the mat for you, and that's all you've got to say?

What would Savage Dragon do, Erik?!

I think he's shaking his poorly drawn head at you in disgust, right now...:(

seancastor

08-14-2007, 07:01 PM

Eventually, my friend's project was picked up by a "mini-major" publisher. One of the top 7. All of Mr. Larsen's "expert opinions" were meaningless. The publisher loved the work and continues to promote it heavily-it has even been nominated for a number of industry awards.

So what project is this? Can we get a look at it to see if it's any good?

Brad Barton

08-14-2007, 07:20 PM

I'm not sure if some of you people are aware of this, but the ImageComics website actually has an entire section devoted to telling you HOW and WHEN to make a pitch/submission.

http://imagecomics.com/submissions.php

Don't you think shoving your art down the man's throat while he's trying to support his titles and sign for fans is a bit disrespectful in the first place? I think unless it's expressly stated that Erik is to be looking at submissions, you should either leave them at home or submit them through Image's Website.

As far as Erik's attitude at Con's, I can only speak to my own experiences. I've met Erik once, at the San-Diego Con in either '94 or '95 (can;t quite remember which), and he seemed very personable and friendly, even offered to do me a sketch which I graciously accepted and still have to this day.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he only gets annoyed when someone forces their portfolio in front of him during signings that were obviously not intended for that?

The Scribe

08-14-2007, 07:24 PM

A new thread about this article needs to be made. I'm tired of hearing a boo-hoo story. :rolleyes:

districtone11

08-14-2007, 07:25 PM

And quit being an asshole.

Name calling?

Sorry. If that's the level of intellegence you are operating on, I'll will pass on any further responses to you.

Grow up.

DonC

08-14-2007, 07:38 PM

Name calling?

Sorry. If that's the level of intellegence you are operating on, I'll will pass on any further responses to you.

Grow up.

Heh. You were waiting for that one, weren't you? Throw around some insults. Act like a jerk. Then try to claim the moral high ground?

Glad I could help.

By the way, are you going to answer Sean's question: What comic did your friend create? You said it was published.

Erik Larsen

08-14-2007, 08:33 PM

Erik said...

C'mon, Erik. You can do better than that. Your 2 fans are going to the mat for you, and that's all you've got to say?

What would Savage Dragon do, Erik?!

I think he's shaking his poorly drawn head at you in disgust, right now...:(

Give it a rest.

Your "friend's" encounter is, at best, a distortion of the truth or, more likely, an outright fabrication. I'm nothing but courteous to folks showing me their work despite most of them being so far from "in the ballpark" it's not even funny. The problem is that most guys trying to break in are delusional--they've been told by friends and family that they're awesome beyond belief and they've never heard a discouraging word. My mild critiques hit them like a board across the face.

I hate giving critiques. I really do. I don't enjoy crushing people's dreams. I've been on the other side of the table and wanting to break in so badly--to be given a chance--to prove what I could do. And I know that I'd have told my younger self that I wasn't ready--because others told me the same--and it stung--but it gave me the determination to get better. But giving critiques really takes a lot out of me--it's draining and there's no winner there. I get nothing out of it but ill will and hard feelings. People get pissed that I don't think they're fantastic--and they resent me--and they get all pissy and crappy--and what do I get out of it?

Jack shit.

I get nothing out of it.

I get grief from boobs like you.

I get fans that want books signed annoyed because they have to wait around while I try not to crush the fragile egos of people that have no business putting pencil to paper. I get guys vilifying me and vowing to never buy my book again.

There are few winners here. The few folks that are close may get a tip or two on perspective or composition that they'll find useful but the vast majority end up turning into twisted turds that spend all of their time posting angry barbs and while hiding behind ever-so-clever pseudonyms on the Internet.

--And you wonder--why I wouldn't want to deal with this crap. Read your posts--would YOU want to deal with somebody like that? Somebody with that kind of attitude--spewing that kind of venom--is THAT the kind of person you'd want to deal with? Because that's what some guys are like--they think they're the greatest thing in the world and yet they draw worse than a fifth grader and when you burst their bubble they get all defensive and huffy. I don't want to deal with that kind of nonsense--it's just awful.

Now, granted, most folks don't get fired up--they just slink away with their tails between their legs but that's just as bad because they've still been hurt--they've still had the air taken out of their tires--and a good number of these folks don't walk away with happy feelings about me or the company that I represent. At the end of the day--I'm not convinced that there is a legitimate benefit to subjecting myself and others to this.

Mr. Natural

08-15-2007, 12:05 AM

Erik, you're the one that sounds delusional here.

I hate giving critiques. I really do. I don't enjoy crushing people's dreams. I've been on the other side of the table and wanting to break in so badly--to be given a chance--to prove what I could do. And I know that I'd have told my younger self that I wasn't ready--because others told me the same--and it stung--but it gave me the determination to get better. But giving critiques really takes a lot out of me--it's draining and there's no winner there. I get nothing out of it but ill will and hard feelings. People get pissed that I don't think they're fantastic--and they resent me--and they get all pissy and crappy--and what do I get out of it?

Jack shit.

I get nothing out of it.

I get grief from boobs like you.

A lot of "I'"s in that paragraph, Erik...

I hate giving critiques.
-and what do I get out of it?

I get nothing out of it.

Erik, if you can't give a critique without projecting your own negative attitude towards the rest of us, then you shouldn't give critiques. Simple as that. You don't have to lie and say that someone's work is "fantastic" when it's not. What people resent about you, isn't your opinion that they aren't ready yet, but the way you present that opinion. But, obviously, you can't go out of your way to be considerate to somebody else's "dreams", because what's in it for you? It doesn't always have to be about you, and all of your past experiences of rejection. You're insecurity as an artist is really showing through here, man.

And, just for the record, I AM MR. NATURAL. :cool:
35819
Deal with it!

Sadyv

08-15-2007, 12:52 AM

How shall the state be most vigorous? It shall be most vigorous when it is without conflict. How shall it be without conflict? When it is without disagreement. How shall disagreement be banished? By banishing the four causes of disagreement:lies, foolish talk, boastful talk, and talk which serves only to incite quarrels.

DonC

08-15-2007, 04:01 AM

vazel

08-15-2007, 04:58 AM

Time to man up, "Mr. Natural." Erik obviously rejected a comic proposal of yours. Let's see it. Post a synopsis of the story and four or five pages of art. Show us this magnum opus of comic storytelling that Erik so foolishly rejected.I'd like to see some scans too. And also the name of the comic of district11's friend that made it with a 'mini-major publisher'.

seancastor

08-15-2007, 05:37 AM

Eventually, my friend's project was picked up by a "mini-major" publisher. One of the top 7. All of Mr. Larsen's "expert opinions" were meaningless. The publisher loved the work and continues to promote it heavily-it has even been nominated for a number of industry awards.

Once again, let's see your friend's work. It's fine if you don't want us to know who you are, but if this project is as good as you claim, show it to us.

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-15-2007, 06:14 AM

Glad to see that at least you admit you really have nothing intelligent to add to this conversation.

Whatever.

Some second hand reports that your read about hardly qualifies as any sort of real evidence. I've read lots of stories about people who have seen the Loch Ness Monster or were abducted by little green men, that hardly proves that either is true.

No shit, dude. But how much evidence have you seen? Personally?

Your whole post would be considered logically invalid. Its all fallacy ("A fallacy is a component of an argument that is demonstrably flawed in its logic or form, thus rendering the argument invalid in whole"), from your Ad hominem attack on the fact that I have a screen name (rather than comment on the contents of my post) to your fallacious argument appealing to the masses("argumentum ad populum") that because many people believe something, it must be true.

I'm sorry, I got bored reading this paragraph. Obviously you're trying to sound smart by quoting dictionaries, but anyone can do that.

As for your claims that VERY few people have experienced Erik Larsen's ill manners compared to what you claim is a vast majority who have basked in the riches of his generosity of spirit, I would say....

BULLSHIT.

And I would say, "prove otherwise".

a) Where do you get these facts from?

Reading people's accounts of meeting Erik on various different message boards. I've read numerous messages where people have had nothing but nice things to say about Erik. As for the negative side, maybe one or two. Ever.

b) Lots of people met Ted Bundy and found him to be a charming individual. Does that make him any less of a murderer? Just because a few slavish fans (of which I suspect you are one) got a free sketch from the guy at a convention, hardly dismisses the words that he has written here and the actions other have reported on.

Never met Erik in person, so no, I've never had a free sketch. As for your example... Ted Bundy? Really? You're comparing a serial killer with a comics professional who may have been rude to someone once? Seriously...?

On second thought, skip answering those questions, you have already admitted that you know absolutely nothing on this subject.

In your opinion.

districtone11

08-15-2007, 10:56 AM

Once again, let's see your friend's work. It's fine if you don't want us to know who you are, but if this project is as good as you claim, show it to us.

Sorry my friend. I"m not going to let you derail the point of this topic with issues that have nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter if the book is Maus, Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns or the New Adventures of the Amazing Mr. Snowcone...what is important is how Mr. Larsen treats people who approach him. Everyone should be treated fairly and with respect, in fact, if the project is awful, consider it a test of a man's own self-worth of how that person is handled.

"Brutal honesty" is bullshit. Its just an excuse for ill-manners and a way to boost up your own self-image (which probably isn't so good to begin with-otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to insult others).

Let's look at it in a way that most here can identify with:

You see a beautiful girl. You are attracted to her. You go up and try to talk to her. She's not interested in you, maybe she's had a bad day, she has a boyfriend, or maybe you are just not her type. She can take one of two approaches:

"You've got to be kidding me. You? Go out with me? When in your wildest dreams do you think that is possible? I don't have time to tell you all the things that are wrong with you. Go away, there are plenty of men who want to gauze upon my beauty and you're blocking their view"

or:

"Sorry, this isn't the right time. You're a nice guy, but I'm just not interested."

One woman is a bitch, the other shows style and class.

Considering that Erik Larsen has PUBLICALLY stated that these people are "beyond hopeless" and "basket cases", which catagory would he fall under?

Then again, maybe Mr. Larsen was on the receiving end of one too many rejections from women, and that made him the bitter man that he is today. Like I said, anyone who would be as bitter as Mr. Larsen obviously is (and let's cut out the "I met Erik Larsen at a convention 15 years ago and he drew me a free head sketch so he's got to be a nice guy" crap, that has nothing to do with the discussion), as evidenced by his recent rant against people actually trying to talk to him at a convention (as oppossed to fawining fans), has obviously some poor self-esteem issues that they are dealing with.

Erik Larsen

08-15-2007, 11:00 AM

Erik, you're the one that sounds delusional here.

A lot of "I'"s in that paragraph, Erik...

So what? Your response has nothing to do with anything. It's like saying that "Hostess Snoballs® are delicious" and then claiming that you won the argument. That's nonsense.

Erik, if you can't give a critique without projecting your own negative attitude towards the rest of us, then you shouldn't give critiques. Simple as that. You don't have to lie and say that someone's work is "fantastic" when it's not. What people resent about you, isn't your opinion that they aren't ready yet, but the way you present that opinion. But, obviously, you can't go out of your way to be considerate to somebody else's "dreams", because what's in it for you? It doesn't always have to be about you, and all of your past experiences of rejection. You're insecurity as an artist is really showing through here, man.

And, just for the record, I AM MR. NATURAL. :cool:

Deal with it!

Who exactly is delusional?

You're not a cartoon character created by Robert Crumb--that much I'm sure of--you're just another anonymous coward hiding behind a screen name.

The rest of your rant is ridiculous. The point of telling you about what it felt like to be rejected was to illustrate why I'm very careful and sensitive to other's feelings when I have to give a critique. I absolutely DO go out of my way to be considerate to somebody else's "dreams" and yet I'm still pitched grief for it.

The truth here is that you're talking fiction. It's not based on anything in reality. There is no incident that you can cite and words of mine you can quote in order to back up your assertion that I'm mean to people in any way--because it's not based on reality--it's fiction.

Part of the problem is that people tend to hear things different than they are because their feelings have been hurt. Watch a little "American Idol" and listen to what the rejects say that the judges just told them two minutes before and you'll see that they seldom come even close to quoting them accurately. Same deal here. I'll say something like, "that's not very strong" and folks will walk away and tell their friend that I told them that they "suck."

You said:
Erik was lying when he said that he's tired of people trying to pitch their books to him at his autograph session. He loves it, because it gives him an excuse to be a rude jerk to those that he sees as his inferiors, and the 4 people with submissions extends his line to 6.

Which is an absolute falsehood.

What makes you think that you have more insight into what goes on in my head than I do? I'll give you that you know a thing or two about being a "rude jerk" but considering the fact that you don't know me at all--I think it's more than a little presumptuous of you to profess to know what's going through my mind at any time.

And why would I say "this has got to stop" if I wanted it to continue? That doesn't make any sense! It defies logic!

DonC

08-15-2007, 11:24 AM

Sorry my friend. I"m not going to let you derail the point of this topic with issues that have nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

You know, you have your friend Mr. Natural keep coming in here talking shit, but you don't say anything. First off, if you're so concerned about the point of this topic than maybe you should go back and read the first post again. The point of this topic, the reason for it, was because the first poster agreed with Erik that people bringing comic submissions into an autograph line is annoying.

Second, you avoid specifics like the French avoid soap. "Erik was mean to my friend." Boo-fucking-hoo. What did Erik say? Did he say, "Sorry, this isn't what Image is looking for" or did he say, "This is shit. Get this shit away from and go kill yourself?"

Third, you're the one who brought Erik's judgement into question. All of Mr. Larsen's "expert opinions" were meaningless. If you want us to agree with you, or even give yourself a shred of credibility on this argument, you'll name this comic your friend had published.

Erik Larsen

08-15-2007, 11:29 AM

You know, you have your friend Mr. Natural keep coming in here talking shit, but you don't say anything. First off, if you're so concerned about the point of this topic than maybe you should go back and read the first post again. The point of this topic, the reason for it, was because the first poster agreed with Erik that people bringing comic submissions into an autograph line is annoying.

Second, you avoid specifics like the French avoid soap. "Erik was mean to my friend." Boo-fucking-hoo. What did Erik say? Did he say, "Sorry, this isn't what Image is looking for" or did he say, "This is shit. Get this shit away from and go kill yourself?"

Third, you're the one who brought Erik's judgement into question. All of Mr. Larsen's "expert opinions" were meaningless. If you want us to agree with you, or even give yourself a shred of credibility on this argument, you'll name this comic your friend had published.

And if "All of Mr. Larsen's 'expert opinions' were meaningless." why show me your stuff in the first place and why get upset because I'd rather NOT look at it?

districtone11

08-15-2007, 11:59 AM

Give it a rest.

Your "friend's" encounter is, at best, a distortion of the truth or, more likely, an outright fabrication. I'm nothing but courteous to folks showing me their work despite most of them being so far from "in the ballpark" it's not even funny. .

Horse manure. I've witnessed you being rude to not only a friend of mine, but someone standing in line in front of us.

The problem is, you are the one who is delusional. Either that, or an outright liar....I suspect its a mixture of the two.

And the thing is, I've heard enough stories from professionals (not fans) about you that says the incidents that I witnessed were not isolated.

But the thing is, people don't have to rely on what I saw, they can read your own words:

"The times I did have to sign were taken up by people trying to pitch books.

Ugh.

This really has to stop. I know guys are desperate to get some feedback, but the vast majority of the stuff I saw was beyond hopeless. It's really unfair to everybody else in line to have folks force their wretched samples on me. There simply is not enough time to teach all of these basket cases even rudimentary drawing much less three-point perspective and composition."

Were people trying to pitch books or asking for art lessons? Those are two very different things my friend. But, as I witnessed, you took it upon yourself to look at proposals as a way to insult and belittle people's art. Art that wasn't necessary "bad" but didn't fit your narrow view of comic book artwork (ie big muscle superheroes).

If you didn't have time to look at people's books, you should simple say that.

Let me ask you this question, do the vast majority of publishers at conventions take time to look at people's pitches and proposals? How many major books are published find a home from creators pitching their stuff to publishers.

Recently, I heard an interview with the guy who does Mouseguard, wanna know how he found his publisher? He took his work to the San Diego Comic Con and showed it around. Made a deal on the spot.

Since this happens-why do you get your panties in a bunch when other creators do the same thing to you? What makes you so special that you can belittle artists and creators because they dare to approach you with their work? You are the only person who I've ever seen who not only is arrogant about how important they are ("no time for your project little man, I have a Savage Dragon statue to sign"), but goes out of their way to point out flaws for the sole purpose of knocking someone down.

As soon as you start claiming people are "beyond hopeless" you reveal more about your contempt for others than you do about anyone else's work.

Another question for you: how many books have you rejected that ended up finding homes at other publishers and then went on to be successful? Were these books "beyond hopeless" as well? Again, from talking with other professionals who have experienced your "kindness", you rarely handle those situations very well.

The problem is that most guys trying to break in are delusional--they've been told by friends and family that they're awesome beyond belief and they've never heard a discouraging word. My mild critiques hit them like a board across the face.

I hate giving critiques. I really do. I don't enjoy crushing people's dreams..

Then stop doing it. Simple as that. No one is forcing you to look at these books. If you are too busy or its not the right time-say so. Other publishers can be professional enough to do that. Why can't you? What's with this childish passive-aggressive behavior of yours where you don't want to do something (look at other people's work), but you do any way, and then proceed to cry like a baby (see your recent column) that you did it.

Be a man.

Grow up.

If you don't want to do it-don't. If you do decide to do it, don't whine and complain about it later.

You're acting more like a spoiled brat than a publisher.

But giving critiques really takes a lot out of me--it's draining and there's no winner there. .

Boo hoo.

Someone get Mr. Larsen a towel and his security blanket. Being a publisher and looking at people's artwork is too stressful for him. And his feelings are hurt.

Sounds to me like you are in the wrong business. Can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I get fans that want books signed annoyed because they have to wait around.

Again. Then don't be a publisher if you just want to sign books from your fans.

You're like a fireman who complains that his job is dangerous.

Looking at people's proposals and pitches is part of the job. If you don't like it-don't do it.

while I try not to crush the fragile egos of people that have no business putting pencil to paper..

Fragile egos?
No business putting pencil to paper?

There is the REAL Erik Larsen.

Face it dude, you are not a nice guy. You are insulting and belittling to people who think you are superior to.

What makes you so great that you can sit and judge others? Their "fragile egos" and their right to be an artist or not? Who died and made you the final judge of people's worth?

As I said earlier, only a person with poor self-esteem issues would go out of his way (like you do) to find ways to make digs at others. You feel the need to put people down to make yourself feel better. What makes you so bitter than you have to insult those who have not reached your level of success in the comic book field?

There are few winners here. The few folks that are close may get a tip or two on perspective or composition that they'll find useful but the vast majority end up turning into twisted turds that spend all of their time posting angry barbs and while hiding behind ever-so-clever pseudonyms on the Internet.

Let's be honest here Erik, shall we. You skills as an artist are marginal at best. You do a workman-like job, but nothing very interesting or special. There's no "Art of Erik Larsen" tomes coming from any major publisher, there's no galleries inviting you to hang your stuff. Your originals sell for average prices. In the list of the top 50 artists working in the field, you name won't be seen. You're work is no different than dozens of other artists who put their time in, put out their product and get a paycheck. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just don't start patting yourself on the back that you have added anything to the comic book world with your artwork.

I say this because, somehow you think that your "tips" are what people are looking for. Again, are you that delusional? There are plenty of artists who are far more skilled, far less busy with business and far more approachable than you are that will gladly spend 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour talking to artists about their work.

People are coming to you for a JOB. The fact that you think that somehow your "artistic skills" are the reason people stand in line with their portfolios to see you is further proof of just how delusional you are. If you didn't have the power to write a check, you would be one of those forgotten guys in artist alley doing $25 sketches and praying that someone remembers you.

Get a reality check.

why I wouldn't want to deal with this crap. Read your posts--would YOU want to deal with somebody like that? Somebody with that kind of attitude--spewing that kind of venom--is THAT the kind of person you'd want to deal with?.

Get a reality check.

Do you have a clue of how bitter and angry you sound? Read what you have posted here. Read what you wrote in your column:

People who dare bring you their work have "Fragile egos", they have "no business putting pencil to paper", they are "basketcases" with "wretched samples", is this the way a professional publisher deals with people who bring work to them? Show some class. Instead of wagging your finger at others, take a good hard look at yourself.

Now, granted, most folks don't get fired up--they just slink away with their tails between their legs but that's just as bad because they've still been hurt--they've still had the air taken out of their tires--and a good number of these folks don't walk away with happy feelings about me or the company that I represent.

And that's because you don't know how to handle people. What training have you had that makes you qualified to deal with the general public? Saying "no" to people is something that is part of any business. You can do it gracefully or you can be rude and unprofessional. The reason that most people walk away with unhappy feelings is that you treat them with no respect and in an unprofessional manner.

It doesn't take an expert in human relations to see that the attitude towards these people that you have displayed here probably translates in how you treat them when you are face to face.

At the end of the day--I'm not convinced that there is a legitimate benefit to subjecting myself and others to this.

EXACTLY! Then stop. If you don't see a legit benefit, why are you doing it? Find someone who enjoys working with people. Someone who doesn't see those looking for work as "basketcases", someone who actually can help the next generation of creators, and not spead the ill-will and hurt feelings that have obviously plagued you and your dealings with others. I don't think you are a bad or evil guy, but at the same time I think you lack the people skills to deal the general public in any way beyond the "fan/artist" relationship that you cling to.

districtone11

08-15-2007, 12:10 PM

.If you want us to agree with you, or even give yourself a shred of credibility on this argument, you'll name this comic your friend had published.

You really are a fool if you think you can bait me like this.

First of all-as I pointed out to you, the quality of a book has nothing to do with how Mr. Larsen handles people.

Are you claiming that there should be some sort of sliding scale in dealing with submissions? The better the book, the nicer you are treated?

Second-get real. Do you really think I am going to breach my friend's professional career by "outing" him and his book here? Its a business, fanboy, and even if Erik Larsen is the biggest asshole in the world (which, for the record, he is not) he still signs checks and my friend may want to work with him some day. I'm not about to let shut the door at Image on his behalf just because you want to know what book was rejected by Erik Larsen and then picked up by another publisher.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

districtone11

08-15-2007, 12:13 PM

And if "All of Mr. Larsen's 'expert opinions' were meaningless." why show me your stuff in the first place and why get upset because I'd rather NOT look at it?

Wow, you really don't understand your place in the pecking order, do you?

NO ONE CARES about your opinions regarding artwork other than the fact that they want a JOB from you. It's about $$$$$.

If you weren't the publisher of Image, NO ONE would be asking for your "expert opinions".

GRANT!

08-15-2007, 12:25 PM

It's not the dude he does those Sentinels books. Cause they suck...

GRANT!

08-15-2007, 12:31 PM

It's not the dude he does those Sentinels books. Cuz they suck.

GRANT!

08-15-2007, 12:41 PM

You really are a fool if you think you can bait me like this.

First of all-as I pointed out to you, the quality of a book has nothing to do with how Mr. Larsen handles people.

Are you claiming that there should be some sort of sliding scale in dealing with submissions? The better the book, the nicer you are treated?

Second-get real. Do you really think I am going to breach my friend's professional career by "outing" him and his book here? Its a business, fanboy, and even if Erik Larsen is the biggest asshole in the world (which, for the record, he is not) he still signs checks and my friend may want to work with him some day. I'm not about to let shut the door at Image on his behalf just because you want to know what book was rejected by Erik Larsen and then picked up by another publisher.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Yeah you're not doing your friend any favors with your attitude so it is kind of pointless at this stage to say who he is. But all we're going is by your word and no context. But then again you're the one who's getting all nasty about this and not him so I don't anybody would hold it against him. I'm sure your friend is too busy working on his craft to get into fights with comic book publishers.

Plenty of talented people got turned down by Image but they had to work hard to hone their skills. It took a while for Kirkman and company to get books approved. But they did but you know they weren't hanging around message boards picking fights with Erik or Jim Valentino. They just worked at it and gave Image something they can sell. I think the Goon got turned down but if you look at those early Goon books you can see why. And Image sometimes approves stuff that's not so good and doesn't turn out so hot in the long run. Like Ant. I'm sure they saw potential in it but that book definately didn't go anywhere in terms of sale and quality.

Also Image is the largest publisher that is giving people a chance. Dark Horse, Marvel and DC do not accept unsolicited proposals. I don't even think Fantagraphics, Oni and Top Shelf accept unsolicited proposals. Image does. But at the same time they have had guys like Kirkman, Kyle Baker, Mike Allred, John Romita Jr. Mike Avon Oeming, Matt Wagner, Mike Wieringo and others under their umbrella so they are going to have a higher standard then other indie publishers. So regardless what you guys think of Erik's art the guy has made sure that they got some quality books at Image. This is the strongest lineup of books the company has had in years and they should keep it that way.

districtone11

08-15-2007, 01:04 PM

[QUOTE=GRANT!;5309721]Yeah you're not doing your friend any favors with your attitude it is kind of pointless at this stage to say who he is. But all we're going is by your word and no context. QUOTE]

Context?

Read Mr. Larsen's comments both here on this thread and in his column. That's all the context you need. Calling people "basketcases" is not cool. Claiming that people should be allowed to create artwork is not cool.

It's really simple:

1. Erik Larsen doesn't like to look at proposals for books or artists' portfolios at conventions.

2. When asked to do so, even though he resents doing it, he does it.

3. Now there seems to be some dispute regarding this step. A number of people have come forward to say that they feel Mr. Larsen was rude and unprofessional. Mr. Larsen steps forward to say he's not rude and unprofessional and a number of his fans join in to say that Mr. Larsen is not a bad guy.

4. Mr. Larsen returns from the convention and goes on the internet, and starts bitching about Step #2. So either Mr. Larsen is cowardly and two-faced (he smiles at you while secretly thinking you are a worthless basketcase) or he tells people what he thinks of them. I suspect that Mr. Larsen is simply not skilled enough when dealing with people to hide his contempt for others.

By his own admission he hates looking at people's proposals and pitches, common sense would tell you that a person who hates doing his job is a) probably not the right person for the job and b) probably doesn't do it very well (as evidenced by how he treats creators he doesn't want to work with).

Again, by his own admission, he sees no benefit in looking at proposals at conventions. He's doing no one any favors.

[QUOTE=GRANT!;5309721] they had to work hard to hone their skills. It took a while for Kirkman and company to get books approved. But they did but you know they weren't hanging around message boards picking fights with Erik . QUOTE]

I think your (poorly worded) advice should be directed more toward Erik Larsen.

Don't you think it would be more productive/positive for Mr. Larsen to spend more time trying to make the comic book world a better place, and less time going on the Internet calling would-be creators "basket cases" and that they have "no business putting pencil to paper"?

What benefit do these kinds of insults have?

districtone11

08-15-2007, 01:17 PM

Dark Horse, Marvel and DC do not accept unsolicited proposals. I don't even think Fantagraphics, Oni and Top Shelf accept unsolicited proposals.

Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about. I know for a fact that if you approach editors at any of the above, most will accept proposals-if you are present yourself in a professional manner.

Marvel is the exception, I have never had any dealings with...and yes, DC is on the list of sometimes accepting unsolicited proposals-and no fanboy, I'm not going to list the editors who do.

Brad Barton

08-15-2007, 03:40 PM

Wow, you really don't understand your place in the pecking order, do you?

NO ONE CARES about your opinions regarding artwork other than the fact that they want a JOB from you. It's about $$$$$.

If you weren't the publisher of Image, NO ONE would be asking for your "expert opinions".Erik, you can disprove this ridiculous statement by answering one very simple question: Did anyone ever submit work to you in your time as strictly a creator, before you became Image's Publisher?

If the answer is yes, Then we've proven Mr. Anonymous Shit-stirrer here completely ignorant, yet again

Oh, and just for the record:
3. Now there seems to be some dispute regarding this step. A number of people have come forward to say that they feel Mr. Larsen was rude and unprofessional. Mr. Larsen steps forward to say he's not rude and unprofessional and a number of his fans join in to say that Mr. Larsen is not a bad guy.Buying approximately ZERO Image titles per month, I'd hardly consider myself an avid "fan" of Larsen's, or anyone elses at Image for that matter. My story about meeting him and him coming off as friendly and personable is the complete, unbiased truth.
You know, shaped by what actually did happen and not bitter, skewed delusions.

And, as a parting thought (and not a particularly generous one at that) I just have to say that I think this argument is so funny, from a credibility stand-point:

In the red Corner we've got Erik Larsen, respected Publisher of Image Comics and longtime Comic-book professional, whom many of us have met and interacted with.

In the Blue corner we've got bitter, anonymous prick-guy, who refuses to provide proof to any of his claims and genuinely wants us to see him as a cartoon-character.

Who to believe, who to believe....

DonC

08-15-2007, 04:23 PM

You really are a fool if you think you can bait me like this.

Not trying to bait you. Sorry. Just telling you that I think you're full of shit. I don't think you're friends with any comic artist out there and I'm calling you on it. Put up or shut up.

Are you claiming that there should be some sort of sliding scale in dealing with submissions? The better the book, the nicer you are treated?

You're the fool if you think there isn't a sliding scale dealing with submissions. It goes like this:

First- People with talent.

Second - People with potential.

Third - People with no chance whatsoever.

Second-get real. Do you really think I am going to breach my friend's professional career by "outing" him and his book here? Its a business, fanboy, and even if Erik Larsen is the biggest asshole in the world (which, for the record, he is not) he still signs checks and my friend may want to work with him some day. I'm not about to let shut the door at Image on his behalf just because you want to know what book was rejected by Erik Larsen and then picked up by another publisher.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

That's a nice, ready-made excuse. Don't want to post it? Send me a private message. I give you my word I won't share the information.

DonC

08-15-2007, 04:33 PM

As soon as you start claiming people are "beyond hopeless" you reveal more about your contempt for others than you do about anyone else's work.

Back when Marvel accepted unsolicted submissions Stan Lee said they would get upwards of five thousand packages of art and/or scripts a month. And most of that was complete and utter garbage. The artists sending it had no hope on Earth of becoming a professional comic artist.

Now, please, slam Stan Lee the same way you have Erik. They said the same thing.

Gonzogoose

08-15-2007, 05:11 PM

Boys and girls, districtone11 has just demonstrated how NOT to EVER get published by Image, or any other publisher for that matter. I just hope Mr. Larsen and whoever else doesn't hold that against your friends who are pitching...

districtone11

08-15-2007, 06:01 PM

That's a nice, ready-made excuse. Don't want to post it? Send me a private message. I give you my word I won't share the information.

You know, I hate to say this, but you really are not a very bright person, are you?

I've told you six or seven times that I will not reveal my friend or his project and yet you continue to hit your head against the wall asking. What makes your desperate request even more pathetic is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. It adds nothing to the discussion. Its only your way of taking the focus off of what my comments and putting it on whether or not I know a creator in the comic book field or not.

If you still can't understand why, ask your parents, maybe they can explain it to you.

You're trying to kill the message by questioning the messenger. And as I have told you before, I'm not going to fall for that trap.

Whether you believe me or not is immaterial. It doesn't each register as a blip on my radar. I know what kind of person Mr. Larsen is...he has demonstrated it here on the message board, in his column and I have witnessed it in person. Whether a few fans, who have no experience in dealing with Mr. Larsen on a professional basis, believe it or not means absolutely squat to me.

districtone11

08-15-2007, 06:08 PM

[QUOTE=beetheb;5310752]Erik, you can disprove this ridiculous statement by answering one very simple question: Did anyone ever submit work to you in your time as strictly a creator, before you became Image's Publisher?

If the answer is yes, Then we've proven Mr. Anonymous Shit-stirrer here completely ignorant, yet again [QUOTE]

Completely ignorant?

You can't even phrase your question properly.

Why would anyone "submit" a work to someone as a creator? Also, unless I am mistaken and my memory is hazy, when Image first began, any of the original founders could publish a book or table a book for consideration. Thus, even if Erik Larsen wasn't the official publisher, he could get a book published.

Didn't know that beetheb, did you? Any other informed opinions you would care to share with everyone?

Why are you so desperate to find any argument to justify Mr. Larsen's behavior when you obviously have very little first-hand knowledge about the subject?

Mr. Natural

08-15-2007, 06:13 PM

Erik,

This whole discussion got started, because of your rant, in your column. The fine, well spoken gentleman, Districtone11, and myself are responding to your own words. We don't really hate you. We just want to help you with your obvious anger issues.

you said...
The rest of your rant is ridiculous. The point of telling you about what it felt like to be rejected was to illustrate why I'm very careful and sensitive to other's feelings when I have to give a critique. I absolutely DO go out of my way to be considerate to somebody else's "dreams" and yet I'm still pitched grief for it.

Ok, but what good is that if your true feelings of irritation and contempt are posted, even highlighted, in your regular column here at CBR for all to see? Kind of wipes the kindness slate clean, now doesn't it?

you said...
Part of the problem is that people tend to hear things different than they are because their feelings have been hurt. Watch a little "American Idol" and listen to what the rejects say that the judges just told them two minutes before and you'll see that they seldom come even close to quoting them accurately. Same deal here. I'll say something like, "that's not very strong" and folks will walk away and tell their friend that I told them that they "suck."

I think I understand what's going on here now. You see yourself as the Simon Cowell of comics! Wow! Let's see here....hmmm...

358393583835840

Sorry, Erik, I'm not feeling it, dawg. Maybe, if you picked up a british accent, and a sense of humor, maybe...

you said..
Who exactly is delusional?

You're not a cartoon character created by Robert Crumb--that much I'm sure of--you're just another anonymous coward hiding behind a screen name.

I'll tell you what, Erik. As long as you're taking the time to read my posts and respond to them, then it doesn't really matter if I am Mr. Natural or not.(which I am, of course!):p

35837

districtone11

08-15-2007, 06:15 PM

In the red Corner we've got Erik Larsen, respected Publisher of Image Comics and longtime Comic-book professional, whom many of us have met and interacted with.

In the Blue corner we've got bitter, anonymous prick-guy...

And who has publically insulted people who have the nerve to try and submit work to him.

Erik Larsen who shows very little in the way of class or professionalism when dealing with others.

And his supporters, who rather than use any sort of facts, logic, intelligence, etc, chooses to dig out every falacy in the book to support their weak positions.

And when they can't support their positions, they resort to name calling.

Who to believe, who to believe....

Well, in the REAL world, I would imagine that, just judging Erik Larsen from his own words here, few people would side with him.

In the cloistered world of fandom full of sycophants and fanboys, of course Erik Larsen gets a free pass...lots of people think OJ was innocent as well. Or, to make the analogy more age appropriate for some of the posters here, lots of people believe in the Easter Bunny as well.

Brad Barton

08-15-2007, 06:21 PM

Completely ignorant?

You can't even phrase your question properly.

Why would anyone "submit" a work to someone as a creator? Also, unless I am mistaken and my memory is hazy, when Image first began, any of the original founders could publish a book or table a book for consideration. Thus, even if Erik Larsen wasn't the official publisher, he could get a book published.

Didn't know that beetheb, did you? Any other informed opinions you would care to share with everyone?

Why are you so desperate to find any argument to justify Mr. Larsen's behavior when you obviously have very little first-hand knowledge about the subject?You're splitting hairs over my choice of words, you know exactly what I meant.

It doesn't surprise me, as you have no proof of any kind (other than your word, which, after your showing on this thread, holds no water with anyone here) And grammatical errors are apparently the only leg you have to stand on

And why do I keep "defending" Erik? Well, chum, look like it's my turn to be condescending and smug....have you not been reading my posts, or do you only take from them what suits your argument and ignore the rest?

I've met Erik once. He was cool to me. End of subject. Or are you contending that I'm a liar as well as Erik and anyone else who has the temerity to state that they've had a friendly encounter with him?

Do us all a favor, grow some testicles.

Ditch the fake name, come out and state how, specifically, that Erik has wronged you, and provide proof. Otherwise you're just a jibber-jabbering, anonymous ghost.

districtone11

08-15-2007, 06:29 PM

You're splitting hairs over my choice of words, you know exactly what I meant..

Actually, I don't know what you meant. And still don't.

What were you trying to say when you asked if anyone submitted a book to Erik Larsen before he was the publisher of Image?

I'm sorry that you obviously have so little respect for education or the English language. But the problem is, your question doesn't make any sense. What was the point you were trying to make?

You suggested that I "grow some testicles", may I suggest that you take a few GED classes and finish your basic education? It would really help if you could present your case in a clear and intelligent way without resorting to name calling and other childish behavior.

districtone11

08-15-2007, 06:38 PM

[QUOTE=beetheb;5311711] I've met Erik once. He was cool to me. End of subject. Or are you contending that I'm a liar as well as Erik and anyone else who has the temerity to state that they've had a friendly encounter with him?
[QUOTE]

Did I call you a liar? If you are claiming I did...well then you are simply making shit up.

Erik Larsen drew a sketch for you 15 years ago, so what ? That doesn't have anything to do with the topic here. The topic is how Erik Larsen treats people who try to submit projects to him. If you have some thing to add to THAT topic, great. Otherwise, I would suggest that you sit this one out. I'm sure that someday there will be a thread discussing Erik Larsen's free head sketches, at that point you may be able to contribute something intelligent (or at least relevant) to the discussion.

DonC

08-15-2007, 06:56 PM

You know, I hate to say this, but you really are not a very bright person, are you?

Smarter than you, I'd wager. But that doesn't seem hard.

I've told you six or seven times that I will not reveal my friend or his project and yet you continue to hit your head against the wall asking. What makes your desperate request even more pathetic is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. It adds nothing to the discussion. Its only your way of taking the focus off of what my comments and putting it on whether or not I know a creator in the comic book field or not.

You're the broken record about how Erik was a jerk to you and your equally anonymous friend. I'm the one saying prove it.

You're trying to kill the message by questioning the messenger. And as I have told you before, I'm not going to fall for that trap.

And I've said there is no trap. Private message me the name of the book. Give me proof. You're the one who brought this up. If you aren't prepared to back up your claims, then stop making them.

Whether you believe me or not is immaterial. It doesn't each register as a blip on my radar. I know what kind of person Mr. Larsen is...he has demonstrated it here on the message board, in his column and I have witnessed it in person. Whether a few fans, who have no experience in dealing with Mr. Larsen on a professional basis, believe it or not means absolutely squat to me.

Your proof here that Erik is a jerk is pathetic. You read his column and quotes here and you think he's a jerk because you want to think he's a jerk. He rejected your friend's work and thus he is forever The Bad Guy. There is nothing he, or anyone, can say or do to show you otherwise. I would say you need to get over it (especially since it was said anonymous friend who was "wronged"), but sadly, you don't seem capable of that. C'est la vie.

Brad Barton

08-15-2007, 07:04 PM

It would really help if you could present your case in a clear and intelligent way without resorting to name calling and other childish behavior.Again, ignoring everything except what you can make an argument out of.

You have no credibility here. We asked you for proof -- or barring that even the specific details of your claim against Erik -- you provided none, and that's the end of that.
I maintained that I met Erik once and have the signed, dated sketch to prove it, would you like to see it? (Rhetorical question, I'd never go out of my way for you, but if anyone else would like to see it I'd be happy to scan and post it.)

And BTW, You're not going to suck me into a childish back and forth over grammar, so you can give up on that. If you have a valid argument to make, please do so and we'll keep discrediting you, but resorting to the Grammar argument is incredibly, incredibly weak.

I said:
Erik, you can disprove this ridiculous statement by answering one very simple question: Did anyone ever submit work to you in your time as strictly a creator, before you became Image's Publisher?

If the answer is yes, Then we've proven Mr. Anonymous Shit-stirrer here completely ignorant, yet againFirst of all, in the context of this thread, which was (originally) about people showing Erik their work at signings and just generally the wrong time, It doesn't take a genius to realize "submit", as I used it, meant "put forth their work, seeking an opinion" -- Did people ever show him their portfolio, seeking his opinion, at a signing before he was a Publisher? -- The answer being almost assuredly, "Yes".

So, either you're deliberately being obtuse so that you'll have some small, desperate argument against me, or you're just not that bright.

Honestly, neither would surprise me.

Brad Barton

08-15-2007, 07:11 PM

Erik Larsen drew a sketch for you 15 years ago, so what ? That doesn't have anything to do with the topic here. The topic is how Erik Larsen treats people who try to submit projects to him. If you have some thing to add to THAT topic, great. Otherwise, I would suggest that you sit this one out. I'm sure that someday there will be a thread discussing Erik Larsen's free head sketches, at that point you may be able to contribute something intelligent (or at least relevant) to the discussion.*tap tap tap* Thats what I heard as I was approaching this comment, you Tap-dancing like a sonofabitch around the point.

Fuck the sketch, I said that IN MY EXPERIENCE, which was one friendly encounter, Erik was NOT all these things you accuse him of being.

That clear enough for you?

And I'll thank you to not take it upon yourself to decide whats relevant to this thread -- It started out a commentary on people showing Erik their work at the wrong time, YOU and Mr. Natural turned it into the libel orgy against Erik that it's become.

DonC

08-15-2007, 07:36 PM

The topic is how Erik Larsen treats people who try to submit projects to him. If you have some thing to add to THAT topic, great. Otherwise, I would suggest that you sit this one out.

Do you have anything to add? Bee and I have asked you for proof as to Erik's behaviour. Not only have you not provided anything, you seem determined to avoid providing any. You just sling more insults thinking no one notices you're avoiding the subject. Like I said before, put up or shut up. Edit: Let's make that, "Put up or sit this one out."

Brandon Hanvey

08-15-2007, 10:46 PM

This is where I come in and ask everyone to play nice.

Discussion and disagreement are okay. Name calling and insults are not.

Erik Larsen

08-16-2007, 12:42 AM

Horse manure. I've witnessed you being rude to not only a friend of mine, but someone standing in line in front of us.

What did I say exactly?

The problem is, you are the one who is delusional. Either that, or an outright liar....I suspect its a mixture of the two.

I suspect you're projecting or exaggerating--or lying. And so far you've said nothing that gives me any reason to believe you.

And the thing is, I've heard enough stories from professionals (not fans) about you that says the incidents that I witnessed were not isolated.

I haven't.

But the thing is, people don't have to rely on what I saw, they can read your own words:

"The times I did have to sign were taken up by people trying to pitch books.

Ugh.

This really has to stop. I know guys are desperate to get some feedback, but the vast majority of the stuff I saw was beyond hopeless. It's really unfair to everybody else in line to have folks force their wretched samples on me. There simply is not enough time to teach all of these basket cases even rudimentary drawing much less three-point perspective and composition."

Were people trying to pitch books or asking for art lessons? Those are two very different things my friend. But, as I witnessed, you took it upon yourself to look at proposals as a way to insult and belittle people's art. Art that wasn't necessary "bad" but didn't fit your narrow view of comic book artwork (ie big muscle superheroes).

First--that's bullshit. "Big muscle superheroes" in NOT how I define "good art" --you clearly have no idea what I think about anything. There are, however, basic rules about storytelling that involve getting a reader's eye to go in the right direction and basics in perspective that many amateur artists violate. Like it or not--I've been a professional, working artist for nearly 25 years. I have a certain amount of basic comic book knowledge at my disposal--and what knowledge and experience do you have that makes you qualified to judge anybody's attempted comic book work as not "necessary bad?"

If you didn't have time to look at people's books, you should simple say that.

Yeah--but then I'm an asshole because I won't give them the time of day.

Let me ask you this question, do the vast majority of publishers at conventions take time to look at people's pitches and proposals? How many major books are published find a home from creators pitching their stuff to publishers.

Recently, I heard an interview with the guy who does Mouseguard, wanna know how he found his publisher? He took his work to the San Diego Comic Con and showed it around. Made a deal on the spot.

Since this happens-why do you get your panties in a bunch when other creators do the same thing to you? What makes you so special that you can belittle artists and creators because they dare to approach you with their work? You are the only person who I've ever seen who not only is arrogant about how important they are ("no time for your project little man, I have a Savage Dragon statue to sign"), but goes out of their way to point out flaws for the sole purpose of knocking someone down.

As soon as you start claiming people are "beyond hopeless" you reveal more about your contempt for others than you do about anyone else's work.

I don't "belittle artists." I give them honest opinions. they ask for that and I give them that--which is why many folks seek me out--because they know that I'm not going to lie to them--that I'm not going to blow sunshine up their ass.

Most publishers don't take pitches and don't look at art--and while I've had fellow professionals pitch worthwhile books at shows I've had almost nothing pitched by amateurs that ended up being a project that we published. It's happened once or twice in the last three years--but only once or twice and it's just as likely that I would have gotten those same pitches mailed to me.

Another question for you: how many books have you rejected that ended up finding homes at other publishers and then went on to be successful?

Zero.

Were these books "beyond hopeless" as well?

No--they were non-existent.

When I say "hopeless"--I don't mean the average guy who's not quite there. I mean guys that really have no idea. they don't draw sequential stuff--it's all on lined paper and drawn with a ball-point pen--there's usually a lot of spikes, chains, skulls and blood depicted and the characters look only vaguely human. The average guy may become something some day. I've had some of those guys get better over the years and eventually make the grade--the hopeless guys never get there--they never improve--they never grow--and their friends all tell them that they're as good as the best artists in the business.

Again, from talking with other professionals who have experienced your "kindness", you rarely handle those situations very well.

You must talk to different pros than I do.

"The problem is that most guys trying to break in are delusional--they've been told by friends and family that they're awesome beyond belief and they've never heard a discouraging word. My mild critiques hit them like a board across the face."

Then stop doing it. Simple as that. No one is forcing you to look at these books. If you are too busy or its not the right time-say so. Other publishers can be professional enough to do that. Why can't you? What's with this childish passive-aggressive behavior of yours where you don't want to do something (look at other people's work), but you do any way, and then proceed to cry like a baby (see your recent column) that you did it.

"Cry like a baby?"

I must have missed that.

The problem is--I'm TOO NICE of a guy! I'm a sucker for a good sob story and there's a part of me that hopes that "THIS guy will be different." These guys WANT to be honestly critiqued and I have a reputation for being honest.

Be a man.

Grow up.

If you don't want to do it-don't. If you do decide to do it, don't whine and complain about it later.

You're acting more like a spoiled brat than a publisher.

Where's the "spoiled" part fit in there?

Boo hoo.

Someone get Mr. Larsen a towel and his security blanket. Being a publisher and looking at people's artwork is too stressful for him. And his feelings are hurt.

Sounds to me like you are in the wrong business. Can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Profound.

Again. Then don't be a publisher if you just want to sign books from your fans.

You're like a fireman who complains that his job is dangerous.

Looking at people's proposals and pitches is part of the job. If you don't like it-don't do it.

Only--it's not part of the job--not at shows. Most publishers don't do it.

Fragile egos?
No business putting pencil to paper?

There is the REAL Erik Larsen.

Face it dude, you are not a nice guy. You are insulting and belittling to people who think you are superior to.

No--I'm honest.

There's a difference--and again--I'm not talking about your average guy who's a year off from being sub par when I say a guy has "No business putting pencil to paper" --I'm talking about those guys that are 37 and draw like they're six.

You make it out like I have some huger ego and that's far from reality--I have a pretty decent idea of my standing in the grand scheme of things. But I know this as well--that I do have some level of skills that have allowed me to break into the business and stay in the business for as long as I've been here. There are some damned decent guys that ended up being shown the door but somehow I've managed to stay afloat.

Is it "ego" for me to say that I'm a working professional and these guys aren't--or is it a simple statement of truth? I am "better" than some of these guys--not a "better person" necessarily but a more skilled draftsman--a more experienced cartoonist.

Erik Larsen

08-16-2007, 12:43 AM

What makes you so great that you can sit and judge others? Their "fragile egos" and their right to be an artist or not? Who died and made you the final judge of people's worth?

It doesn't work that way. There's no dying and passing the torch. As a publisher it is my job to decide what we do and don't publish. It is not in our best interest to throw open the doors and let everybody in.

If I did in fact see your friend's samples and I had a negative opinion of them--then chances are he wasn't ready. Maybe he's ready now--I have no idea.

The thing is--guys seem to think that an Image book is their ticket to fame and fortune--but chances are that if I gave these guys that aren't ready a gig on the spot that they would have had a negative experience. Their sales would be lackluster and they'd be known as the guy that illustrated that crappy Image book that sat on the shelves and gathered dust. Nobody wants to be that guy and I don't want to help people be that guy--I want folks to be successful--I want them to have a positive experience.

And I don't always make the right call. We've had a few stinkers.

That's why--often--I'll give promising artists a break by letting them draw a back up story or pin-up--so they can see their work in print and learn from the experience rather than have to carry a book and fail. Some of these guys have gone on to do bigger and better things.

As I said earlier, only a person with poor self-esteem issues would go out of his way (like you do) to find ways to make digs at others. You feel the need to put people down to make yourself feel better. What makes you so bitter than you have to insult those who have not reached your level of success in the comic book field?

Nothing.

You make it sound as though I'm insulting people. I'm not. A person is not the work they produce. They're two different things. I don't "put people down" --I give people an honest appraisal of their work. If a person doesn't want that--then they shouldn't be showing me their work.

Let's be honest here Erik, shall we. You skills as an artist are marginal at best. You do a workman-like job, but nothing very interesting or special. There's no "Art of Erik Larsen" tomes coming from any major publisher, there's no galleries inviting you to hang your stuff. Your originals sell for average prices. In the list of the top 50 artists working in the field, you name won't be seen. You're work is no different than dozens of other artists who put their time in, put out their product and get a paycheck. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just don't start patting yourself on the back that you have added anything to the comic book world with your artwork.

And your point is--what?

I mean--you're wrong on some counts--my stuff has been in galleries and I've sold pages for thousands of dollars--but I don't disagree with much of what you said. What of it?

I say this because, somehow you think that your "tips" are what people are looking for. Again, are you that delusional? There are plenty of artists who are far more skilled, far less busy with business and far more approachable than you are that will gladly spend 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour talking to artists about their work.

I wish they'd do that then.

People are coming to you for a JOB.

Well then why did they show me their samples when I couldn't give them a job? And why do they show me their samples NOW when I can't give them a job?

Image publishes comic books--we don't hire individual artists. I have no jobs to give--and most of these guys aren't pitching books--they're showing me their samples.

The fact that you think that somehow your "artistic skills" are the reason people stand in line with their portfolios to see you is further proof of just how delusional you are. If you didn't have the power to write a check, you would be one of those forgotten guys in artist alley doing $25 sketches and praying that someone remembers you.

Get a reality check.

When I was in artist alley--I was shown plenty of art from guys hoping to get a few pointers. That's how people learn--by showing folks their work and getting pointers. This hasn't changed. And despite your critical appraisal--I can walk into any company tomorrow and land a job. I don't claim to be one of the top fifty cartoonists to ever walk the Earth--but I am employable.

Get a reality check.

Do you have a clue of how bitter and angry you sound? Read what you have posted here. Read what you wrote in your column:

People who dare bring you their work have "Fragile egos", they have "no business putting pencil to paper", they are "basketcases" with "wretched samples", is this the way a professional publisher deals with people who bring work to them? Show some class. Instead of wagging your finger at others, take a good hard look at yourself.

I think you're reading in a tone that simply isn't there. You're like one of those guys on a radio talk show that quotes a politician from the opposing parting and gives them the snottiest possible voice. There's nothing I've said that can't be taken in a different light when read in the spirit in which it was intended. If you read my words and imagined them coming from somebody whose work you know and respect or who you were on friendly terms you'd think they were making harmless remarks--but because you've got a bone to pick with me you're assuming the worst.

Grow up!

Get a backbone!

So your friend's art wasn't as great as you thought it was at the time--big deal! If he wasn't ready for the big leagues he needed to hear that from somebody--might as well be me--and if her got pissed off and determined to show people that he could cut it and he went out there and proved it--even better--then I motivated him to make the grade! Good for him!

And if he STILL hasn't broken in--well, maybe he needs to work at it a bit more. If a guy like me--with marginal artistic skills can make it--there's hope for him yet.

And if he sucks ass or quits--good riddance! He wasn't built for this kind of work.

Thing is--in this business--people are always criticizing you. If it's not editors of publishers--it's anonymous trolls on the Internet. It's all part of the business. You stick your toe out there and sometimes the water's cold.

And that's because you don't know how to handle people. What training have you had that makes you qualified to deal with the general public? Saying "no" to people is something that is part of any business. You can do it gracefully or you can be rude and unprofessional. The reason that most people walk away with unhappy feelings is that you treat them with no respect and in an unprofessional manner.

That's a crock.

First--many of them are thankful and understand that I mean them no harm--and second--those that do slink away do so because they didn't hear what they wanted to hear. Nobody wants to be told that they're not good enough and I make a serious effort to find something good to say--even for the most hopeless of the hopeless. I try to soften the blow as best I can.

It doesn't take an expert in human relations to see that the attitude towards these people that you have displayed here probably translates in how you treat them when you are face to face.

Exactly my point. They should know what they're getting themselves into. So--what was your buddy's problem? He's no expert in human relations, I'd gather.

EXACTLY! Then stop. If you don't see a legit benefit, why are you doing it? Find someone who enjoys working with people. Someone who doesn't see those looking for work as "basketcases", someone who actually can help the next generation of creators, and not spead the ill-will and hurt feelings that have obviously plagued you and your dealings with others. I don't think you are a bad or evil guy, but at the same time I think you lack the people skills to deal the general public in any way beyond the "fan/artist" relationship that you cling to.

Again--you're doing my work for me. Wasn't my whole point that I didn't WANT to do this?

In any case--how long ago did your buddy get his ass handed back to him? 'Cause I've made a real effort to reel it in a bit of late. I'm still honest, sure--but I try to point out places where they're going in the right direction instead of simply pointing out where they went wrong.

The honest truth is--underneath it all--I really DO want to help. There will always be those guys that are incapable of ever making it, sure, but I've had enough guys that saw the light when I explained how the detail they added was making their drawings hard to comprehend or why it's a good idea to have only the closest objects in a panel break the panel border or how to set up perspective that I don't think it's completely wasted effort.

But it's still draining--and it's still not fair to that guy that's been lugging around a backpack full of comics all afternoon. And most of the guys at shows are that guy--the fan who just wants to get a few books signed in a reasonable amount of time--and they can't do that if wannabe artists are jeopardizing everybody's time.

Erik Larsen

08-16-2007, 01:42 AM

You really are a fool if you think you can bait me like this.

First of all-as I pointed out to you, the quality of a book has nothing to do with how Mr. Larsen handles people.

And how would you know this? I'm not saying it's true or isn't true--but how would you know this to be the case?

Are you claiming that there should be some sort of sliding scale in dealing with submissions? The better the book, the nicer you are treated?

In others posts you made the assertion that I treated your artist pal poorly. I'm sure that I didn't call him a name--I'd have no reason to--I didn't know him--chances are that I merely commented on his work. And you claim that I was somehow rude to him. Given that--it stands to reason that if I didn't find a creator's work lacking in merit that they might not think I was so rude. So, yes--by the way you define rudeness--the better the book--the better they're treated. They're being praised instead of criticized, after all and according to your own statements my criticism comes off as rude.

Second-get real. Do you really think I am going to breach my friend's professional career by "outing" him and his book here? Its a business, fanboy, and even if Erik Larsen is the biggest asshole in the world (which, for the record, he is not) he still signs checks and my friend may want to work with him some day. I'm not about to let shut the door at Image on his behalf just because you want to know what book was rejected by Erik Larsen and then picked up by another publisher.

You make some assumptions here that are not only unfounded but ridiculous. If your friend is a great talent--of course I'd want to have him working at Image regardless of who his friends are.

Can you imagine if that wasn't the case? "I'm sorry, Mr. Adams--I think you're the cat's pajamas but some friend of yours was a real jerk to me on a message board so you can go piss up a rope." That's insane!

I don't have to like the friends of everybody that works at Image--I don't even have to like everybody that works at Image--some, I've never met and some--I imagine--I might not get along with--especially if the topic turned to politics!

And that's one of the things that makes me an adult. I'm able to get past petty things like that to see the big picture.

A creator took me aside the other day and asked me if he was being blacklisted at Image because he got drunk and acted inappropriately in public some time earlier. The answer was no--I just didn't care for the book that he pitched--his conduct had nothing to do with it. No creator is blacklisted at Image. If they can draw a crowd they're welcome to join the fold.

So don't give THAT as an excuse--because it really doesn't hold water. If your friend wants his name withheld--fine--but he should not fear my wrath for a second.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

But in this case--it isn't feeding you--so it really shouldn't have anything to do with anything.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

08-16-2007, 02:40 AM

Hey Erik!

Some of us actually like Image and what Jim Valentino and yourself started doing (although a lot of the partners had also started doing through their own imprints) to release more creator owned books through the line.
Robert Kirkman, Brian Wood, Dave Johnson Brian Micheal Bendis... good creators for comics to have (and they're only the 'names' I can think of that started out at Image), and others like Jay Faeber or B. Clay Moore or Mark Ricketts or Eric Shanower who's work I can only get from Image.
And I say this not as a wannabe, but as someone who likes reading all sorts of comics.
I'm surprised you give anyone the time of day at a con to check their work!

I'm presuming you can handle what's being thrown in this thread without me giving my assurance that not everyone feels that way, but I just found it amazing you bothered to respond.
If I copped this sort of attitude at work (or even heard of customers saying it) I'd be devastated (and I'm on a salary so it wouldn't affect me professionally at all).

That said, as for the early change of printing some superhero titles through Image again - post 11 (although did you ever stop?), what's the deal?
You print what's popular with your customers now?
It's like you're expecting to make money as a publisher or something?
Who the hell are you to give an alternative to the 'big two' in a genre?
It's not like you're also printing a grim crime drama or a pop-tastic genre mashing, dimension crossing espionage book now is it?
Or reprinting great out of print comics for new fans to see!
(Just finished Madman Gargantua and Silver Star made me see why people love Kirby - it's crazy!).

-Ben Lipman.
(not that hard to do fellas, and I doubt I'm going to get stalked because of it).

Ps.
I couldn't make it to San Diego, but I have this totally kewl idea for a pirate comic, that would totally rock, and you should publish it.
It's got pirate ships and stuff, with a main character who has to overcome obstacles and learn lessons along the way. Friends become enemies, and enemies become friends.
And there's totally mad battles, a character called Captain Madd Dawg and a really hot chick!
Plus it's about PIRATES! There's no way we wouldn't make money!
My girlfriend said it's righteous, and she doesn't even read comics!
Now I don't have an artist (but Silvestri would be totally up for it) and I've done no research (plus self-publishing is WAY too much hassle), but I have got a few half finished short film scripts from when I was studying, so you should totally give me a shot!
I know you've got a submissions page on your website, but dude, it's me!
We should just bypass all that and you could take a chance on me, and I'll take a chance on you!
Or aren't you man enough?

(I'm surprised you don't just walk around with a fire extinguisher to turn on people at conventions).

Brad Barton

08-16-2007, 03:10 AM

EDIT:\-Ben Lipman.
(not that hard to do fellas, and I doubt I'm going to get stalked because of it).Nice to meet you Ben, I'm Brad Mathews.

Wow, that really wasn't that hard. It's almost like publicly taking responsibility for your words, without the benefit of anonymity...what a concept!.

It's almost sort of like what Erik Larsen, -- or Gail Simone, or John Romita Jr, or Peter David, or Chris Gage or any number of other professionals who interact on these boards regularly do every time they post, for better or worse standing by their words with (at the very least) their public reputations at stake.

I can respect that.

I can't respect, or heed, anonymous Trolling for the sole purpose of defamation. It serves no real purpose and in the end helps nothing.

Ps.
I couldn't make it to San Diego, but I have this totally kewl idea for a pirate comic, that would totally rock, and you should publish it.
It's got pirate ships and stuff, with a main character who has to overcome obstacles and learn lessons along the way. Friends become enemies, and enemies become friends.
And there's totally mad battles, a character called Captain Madd Dawg and a really hot chick!
Plus it's about PIRATES! There's no way we wouldn't make money!
My girlfriend said it's righteous, and she doesn't even read comics!
Now I don't have an artist (but Silvestri would be totally up for it) and I've done no research (plus self-publishing is WAY too much hassle), but I have got a few half finished short film scripts from when I was studying, so you should totally give me a shot!
I know you've got a submissions page on your website, but dude, it's me!
We should just bypass all that and you could take a chance on me, and I'll take a chance on you!
Or aren't you man enough?
Malibu would've published it.

DonC

08-16-2007, 04:17 AM

Malibu would've published it.

We need more good pirate comics. Ever since CrossGen sank the El Cazador there's been a distinct lack of pirate comics.

Brad Barton

08-16-2007, 04:56 AM

We need more good pirate comics. Ever since CrossGen sank the El Cazador there's been a distinct lack of pirate comics.That's true, and I think we can all agree that Erik Larsen is largely to blame for this....after all, if it weren't for his dogged determination to stifle all promising young creators, we might have had our Swash-Buckling magnum opus by now.

:rolleyes:

DonC

08-16-2007, 08:33 AM

That's true, and I think we can all agree that Erik Larsen is largely to blame for this....after all, if it weren't for his dogged determination to stifle all promising young creators, we might have had our Swash-Buckling magnum opus by now.

:rolleyes:

That's why I passed on buying Savage Dragon Vol. 1 for $3. Well, that and I was going to get the B&W archives edition. 'Course I never got that either....

Erik Larsen

08-16-2007, 10:48 AM

That's true, and I think we can all agree that Erik Larsen is largely to blame for this....after all, if it weren't for his dogged determination to stifle all promising young creators, we might have had our Swash-Buckling magnum opus by now.

:rolleyes:

Doesn't "The Pirates of Coney Island" an eight issue miniseries by Rick Spears and Vasilis Lolos count?

Hey, I'm trying...

districtone11

08-16-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
And the thing is, I've heard enough stories from professionals (not fans) about you that says the incidents that I witnessed were not isolated.

Erik Larsen:
I haven't.

Of course you haven't. You've already demonstrated that you live in a self-delusional bubble that convinces you that people have respect for your artistic abilities-not because you are a publisher that can get you work.

Wake up and smell the coffee. You haven't heard of all the people you have offended because you are the top dog that can give people work. What artist/writer with half a brain in going to publically criticize the head of Image? You've shown yourself to act without professionalism in how you handle creators who pitch to you, why shouldn't those same creators think that you would retaliate against them if the opening complained about your actions.

Just remember one thing--Jim Shooter use to think he was doing a good job at Marvel.

Erik Larsen:
First--that's bullshit. "Big muscle superheroes" in NOT how I define "good art" --you clearly have no idea what I think about anything. There are, however, basic rules about storytelling

REPLY:
Storytelling?

That's a laugh. You guys at Image have so much respect for storytelling that you won't even accept submissions from writers.

It's all about the pretty pictures with you.

You're not into big muscle superheroes? Tell us the last truly groundbreaking book that YOU discovered and published at Image?

Erik Larsen:
that involve getting a reader's eye to go in the right direction and basics in perspective that many amateur artists violate. Like it or not--I've been a professional, working artist for nearly 25 years. I have a certain amount of basic comic book knowledge at my disposal

REPLY:
Which of course is why a project like the Youngblood collection gets greenlighted. Another example of the quality of Image products that you are so proud of?

Erik Larsen:
Yeah--but then I'm an asshole because I won't give them the time of day.

REPLY:
Someone bring out the violins, Erik Larsen is walking the self-pity parade.

Boo-hoo, poor Lil' Erik, people are mean to me! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Grow up dude. You're spoiled brat behavior is way past the expiration date.

The fact of the matter is, if you are too busy, most people will understand. Do people get angry at Stan Lee because he won't hear pitches? Maybe a few headcases, but most people understand.

Ane most people understand/expect that if you agree to look at a project or hear a pitch, you will act in a professional and respectful manner, not the passive-aggressive responses/attacks that you are known for.

Erik Larsen:
Most publishers don't take pitches and don't look at art--and while I've had fellow professionals pitch worthwhile books at shows I've

REPLY:
Flat out BS. The indie world is full of stories of creators hooking up with publishers and editors at conventions. As I pointed out in my previous post, that's exactly what happened with Mouse Guard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
Again, from talking with other professionals who have experienced your "kindness", you rarely handle those situations very well.

Erik Larsen
You must talk to different pros than I do.

REPLY:
No. Probably the same ones. Just they don't want to lose a paycheck and/or contact by telling you the truth.

Erik Larsen
"Cry like a baby?"

I must have missed that.

REPLY:
Look in the mirror. Read your posts here.
They come off soundling like a spoiled 16 year old who doesn't get his way, not a mature, middle aged publisher.

Erik Larsen:
The problem is--I'm TOO NICE of a guy! I'm a sucker for a good sob story and there's a part of me that hopes that "THIS guy will be different." These guys WANT to be honestly critiqued and I have a reputation for being honest.

REPLY:
Again. Mr. Delusional. I'm sure most of the people want a job. They want either to have you put them on a book or say "yes" to their book. You advice as a 25 year comic book artist is not what people are looking for. Conventions are full of far more accomplished artists who are far more accessable than you. If people really want art tips, they'll go to one of those people, not you.

Erik Larsen:
Where's the "spoiled" part fit in there?

REPLY:
That you agree to look at people's work, and then come to the internet crying like a baby that people are taking away your time.

Publishers look at books. You are a publisher. If you don't like the job-find a new one. Just stop crying about doing work you don't like to.

Originally Posted by districtone11
Boo hoo.

Someone get Mr. Larsen a towel and his security blanket. Being a publisher and looking at people's artwork is too stressful for him. And his feelings are hurt.

Sounds to me like you are in the wrong business. Can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Erik Larsen:
Profound.

REPLY:
Well, for someone whose claim to WRITING fame is Savage Dragon, it probably does strike you as profound.

Erik Larsen
Only--it's not part of the job--not at shows. Most publishers don't do it.

REPLY:
Yeah. They do. In fact, I believe it was TOP SHELF who said that the ONLY take submissions at shows-not through the mail (if not Top Shelf, it was Oni, I don't remember for sure, but it was one of those two). For someone who is so proud of their 25 years in the business, you certainly seem out of touch.

And if you don't like doing it. THEN STOP DOING THEM. Don't do them, and then cry about doing them later.

That's what being an adult is. Take responsibilty for what you agree to do. If you don't want to look at artwork/pitches/whatever....stop doing it.

I feel more sympathy for Paris Hilton than I do for your woes.

Districtone11:
Face it dude, you are not a nice guy. You are insulting and belittling to people who think you are superior to.

Erik Larsen:
No--I'm honest.

Districtone11:
COMMENTS EDITED OUT (on reflection, even if I was responding to fire with fire, I do not feel comfortable hiding behind the excuse "Honesty" even to make a point. My apologies.)

Hey, I'm just being honest. How does it feel?

Being "honest" doesn't mean squat. You're just a mean spirited guy hiding behind being honest. I suspect that the honest truth is that you have been burned by women your whole life, poor self-esteem issues and that's why you are focused on superheroes, and now that you have some power, you use it to feel superior to others.

Hey, I'm just being honest. In my business, I deal with people and evaluating them like that all day long. Like you, I'm just being honest.

Erik Larsen:
You make it out like I have some huger ego and that's far from reality--I have a pretty decent idea of my standing in the grand scheme of things. But I know this as well--that I do have some level of skills that have allowed me to break into the business and stay in the business for as long as I've been here. There are some damned decent guys that ended up being shown the door but somehow I've managed to stay afloat.

REPLY:
And I will not deny any of that.

My comments are based on your personality and how you deal with others. People you feel superiour too.

You complain and whine about dealing with artists showing you their work as though you are too important for that kind of thing.

Maybe you are.

But if that's the case, why do you continue to do it when you know you can't really give them an honest, complete evaluation, but rather just shoot them down (in your words)?

Erik Larsen:
Is it "ego" for me to say that I'm a working professional and these guys aren't--or is it a simple statement of truth? I am "better" than some of these guys--not a "better person" necessarily but a more skilled draftsman--a more experienced cartoonist.

REPLY:
Is it ego on my part to point out that this is a typical "straw man" argument where you create an argument that never existed in order to knock it down and "win". I find it very interesting that you placed these comments at the end when they respond to nothing that anyone said about you.

No one questioned that you were a professional and many people came up to you are not, so why bring it up? To end on a zinger and create a false sense that your status as a professional has anything to do with the topic at hand.

Better yet answer the questions: why do you agree to look at people's work when you harbor a secret resentment about doing that? And why, once you agree to look at people's work, do you then later go on the internet and complain about it?

THAT is what this thread is about. NOT whether you are a professional with 25 years experience or not.

Mike Bullock

08-16-2007, 11:11 AM

The topic is how Erik Larsen treats people who try to submit projects to him. If you have some thing to add to THAT topic, great.

Okay, I have something to add.

I submitted to Erik at a convention (twice) and I've sat next to him signing my own books three other times while other people submitted to him.

Never once have I seen him treat anyone rudely.

In fact, he's usually the opposite. Erik is one of those guys who just flat out loves comics and loves the fact that he can talk to other people who love comics. He gives good critiques, also.

However, he is very blunt and honest. Some people appreciate that, others "can't handle the truth" and get their feelings hurt.

Based on the first post, I'm guessing you fall into the latter category. But, better you get blunt & honest criticism in a convention setting, then put a book out and get ripped online by guys who hide behind screen names and make you out to be the devil incarnate...

districtone11

08-16-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
You really are a fool if you think you can bait me like this.

First of all-as I pointed out to you, the quality of a book has nothing to do with how Mr. Larsen handles people.

Erik Larsen:
And how would you know this? I'm not saying it's true or isn't true--but how would you know this to be the case?

REPLY:
My apologies, a word was missing. It should have read:

"the quality of a book has nothing to do with how Mr. Larsen should handle people. "

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
Are you claiming that there should be some sort of sliding scale in dealing with submissions? The better the book, the nicer you are treated?

Erik Larsen:
In others posts you made the assertion that I treated your artist pal poorly. I'm sure that I didn't call him a name--I'd have no reason to--I didn't know him--chances are that I merely commented on his work. And you claim that I was somehow rude to him. Given that--it stands to reason that if I didn't find a creator's work lacking in merit that they might not think I was so rude.

REPLY:
Not true.
I was with him when other publishers told him that it wasn't what they were looking for.

One publisher wanted more "skin", if he would do an R-rated book they would be interested.

One publisher was looking for specific genres, genres that on first blush, the book didn't fit in. After further discussion, the editor saw that this might be a book that he could use.

One publisher was very specific in how they craft their books, and this didn't fall into their niche.

All of this publishers/editors rejected the book. None of them left a bad taste in my mouth like your behavior did.

What did you do? You spent about 25 seconds flipping through the book and then proceeded to rattle off some garbage that was designed to belittle the guy. There was no "tips" or advice given, you basically said in not so many words that the book was hopeless. Kind of like what you said here on a number of occassions.

The interesting thing is, not less than 5 minutes later he took it to another editor at another publisher who immediately said that it was exactly what they were looking for. So much for your expert advice.

The problem is, you probably do crush lots of people's hopes. My friend is made of stronger character than to let your comments hurt him (he's got a successful career in film) My friend thought you were a grade-A asshole (and I agreed) and went on and found someone less superhero focused.

What really "stands to reason" is that if you resent doing a job (looking at people's artwork at conventions) and that you resent people who ask you to (they are "hopeless basketcases" to you), that you will not do a very good and/or fair job of evaluating what is shown to you. If you can't do your job well, if you can't evaluate something fairly due to the fact that you have a negative bias towards doing it in the first place, why continue to do it? Especially when you are hurting those people who are coming to you expecting an "honest" opinion? How can you be "honest" when you don't want to do it in the first place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
Second-get real. Do you really think I am going to breach my friend's professional career by "outing" him and his book here? Its a business, fanboy, and even if Erik Larsen is the biggest asshole in the world (which, for the record, he is not) he still signs checks and my friend may want to work with him some day. I'm not about to let shut the door at Image on his behalf just because you want to know what book was rejected by Erik Larsen and then picked up by another publisher.

Erik Larsen:
You make some assumptions here that are not only unfounded but ridiculous. If your friend is a great talent--of course I'd want to have him working at Image regardless of who his friends are.

REPLY:
You may have 25 brilliant years in comic books, but you certainly never learned to read very well. Your response has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Erik Larsen:
Can you imagine if that wasn't the case? "I'm sorry, Mr. Adams--I think you're the cat's pajamas but some friend of yours was a real jerk to me on a message board so you can go piss up a rope." That's insane!

REPLY:
Now you're telling me the comic book industry doesn't work on a friends basis? Who you know and networking doesn't matter? That people don't hold grudges?

Wanna tell me about the Easter Bunny next?

Erik Larsen:
So don't give THAT as an excuse--because it really doesn't hold water. If your friend wants his name withheld--fine--but he should not fear my wrath for a second.

REPLY:
Dude, either you're an idiot, or you think I'm an idiot. Why would anyone risk a potential career backlash just to admit that you were rude to them at a convention?

Only a fool would do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Erik Larsen
But in this case--it isn't feeding you--so it really shouldn't have anything to do with anything.

REPLY:
Come on Mr. Larsen, don't insult everyone's intelligence here.

There is no difference between me saying "John Smith thought you were a rude, unprofessional jerk and ended up having his book published by ABC Publishing and had a great deal of success. :

And John Smith saying the exact same thing himself.

That, and obviously you have no class (as shown before), I'm not going to breach my friend's confidence just to argue with you. Mr. Larsen, do you often times spread gossip that your friends tell you? If Jim Valentino told you that he thinks Todd McFarland is a money grubbing, no talent, asshole (I'm using this as an example, I have no opinion on Mr. McFarland), I assume by your comments here, you would find it perfectly acceptable to tell those things to Todd McFarland?

For the fans here, let me put it in perspective. Imagine going to a job interview and the person you are interviewing knows that you have publically called him an "asshole", what do you think your chances are of getting that job?

Or closer to home for some of you here: imagine that you are hoping to get promoted to be shift supervisor at McDonalds, do you think it would be benefical for the manager to know that you have been complaining about him to other employees? Do you think he'll say "I know you don't like me or how I do business, but you are darn good with those fries, I'm going to promote you"?

Like I said Mr. Larsen, don't insult people's intelligence.

seancastor

08-16-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
You are one of the uglest SOB's I've ever seen. What's with your teeth? With all the money you have, can't you get them fixed? I realize that there's nothing you can do about your beedy/rat-like eyes, but spend a few bucks and get those teeth fixed.

Hey, I'm just being honest. How does it feel?

Hey, I'm just being honest. In my business, I deal with people and evaluating them like that all day long. Like you, I'm just being honest.

Why would you say something like this? This kind of personal attack on someone's looks has no place on these boards. I don't care if you are making a point. Your point is so skewed when you attack like this. I am not protecting Erik, he's an adult and can do it himself, but I don't think this is called for not matter how rude you thought he was. You certainly aren't proving yourself to be a better person by doing this. Please stop acting like a child and end your rant.

MadBastard

08-16-2007, 12:32 PM

districtone11

08-16-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
What makes you so great that you can sit and judge others? Their "fragile egos" and their right to be an artist or not? Who died and made you the final judge of people's worth?

Erik Larsen:
It doesn't work that way. There's no dying and passing the torch. As a publisher it is my job to decide what we do and don't publish. It is not in our best interest to throw open the doors and let everybody in.

That's why--often--I'll give promising artists a break by letting them draw a back up story or pin-up--so they can see their work in print and learn from the experience rather than have to carry a book and fail. Some of these guys have gone on to do bigger and better things.

REPLY:
Again, you may have lasted 25 years as a comic book artist, but you need to stop looking at pretty pictures and learn how to read and comprend what you read.

I was being sarcastic.

I was trying to point out that just because you are a publisher of comic books, that doesn't give you the right to judge people whether they have the right to draw or not (as you stated they shouldn't be allowed to pick up a pencil).

Erik Larsen:
If I did in fact see your friend's samples and I had a negative opinion of them--then chances are he wasn't ready. Maybe he's ready now--I have no idea.

REPLY:
The problem is, you didn't even give the book a chance to evaluate it. I watched you. You paged through the book, spending less than 20 or 25 seconds on it and then proceeded to insult and disparage the guy and the artwork. The comments came off as boilerplates, like you've said the same things a million times before. One of the interesting things was that the artist is a full-time storyboard artist who has worked in the business for over 20 years and has worked on nothing but major studio pictures for most of that time. He's worked with exlusively A-list directors. He obviously knows how to tell a story visually. You proceeded to get on your high horse and rip the artwork to shreds. Its was the work of an amature, etc.

THAT type of expert opinion is what is laughable. I'm sure you will come back with "that doesn't mean he can draw comic books", but the fact is that the pages worked. They worked for other publishers and they worked when the book was published for readers.

My observation was that you were just this bitter, cranky guy who didn't want to be bothered.

Kind of the same person you showed here.

What's really interesting to me is that not only did you dismiss the artwork of a professional artist (who probably makes 10x the amount of money telling visual stories on paper than you ever had as a comic book artist), but you didn't even bother to read a single page. You just looked for pretty pictures. And when the pictures weren't pretty for you, you had no interest in it.

You basic contempt for writing is shown not only in the medicore product you publish, but the guidelines for writing that you have on the Image website.

What are these guidelines? Writers-don't bother. If you don't have an artist attached, don't send us anything. We're not interested.

Imagine a movie studio or tv network having this kind of opinion. You'd get MTV-in the days that MTV just played videos.

And that's pretty much what Image is-pretty pictures. No content.

When I saw you in action, that is all you were looking for. Pretty pictures. YOu had no interst in asking my friend what his book was about. The story. THe characters. Etc. Just pretty pictures that fit your narrow defined definition of what good comic book artwork is.

Maybe it wasn't your style. And that's fine. But you didn't say that. You basically said it was "hopeless".

Considering that this "hopeless" book was published. What is your definition of hopeless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
Let's be honest here Erik, shall we. Your skills as an artist are marginal at best. You do a workman-like job, but nothing very interesting or special. There's no "Art of Erik Larsen" tomes coming from any major publisher, there's no galleries inviting you to hang your stuff. Your originals sell for average prices. In the list of the top 50 artists working in the field, you name won't be seen. You're work is no different than dozens of other artists who put their time in, put out their product and get a paycheck. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just don't start patting yourself on the back that you have added anything to the comic book world with your artwork.

Erik Larsen
And your point is--what?

I mean--you're wrong on some counts--my stuff has been in galleries and I've sold pages for thousands of dollars--but I don't disagree with much of what you said. What of it?

REPLY:
My "what of it" is that people are going to you looking for work. An assignment. Maybe a back-up story or pinup (as you said above), they are not going because you are some fantastic artist who has this great skill set and want to learn from you. Learn your place.

If you go to the San Deigo Con, I would suspect that 98% of the artists are more easy to reach than you are. Why is that? Why do you have a line of people wanting to show you their work?

And why are you the only one bitching and belittilng, in print (on the internet) the people that come to you for advice? Are there other artists who are on the internet complaining that fans and would-be artists are taking away their autograph time by showing them their work? I haven't come across any. So what does that tell you? You're the only crybaby of the bunch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
I say this because, somehow you think that your "tips" are what people are looking for. Again, are you that delusional? There are plenty of artists who are far more skilled, far less busy with business and far more approachable than you are that will gladly spend 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour talking to artists about their work.

Erik Larsen
I wish they'd do that then.

REPLY:
Are you claiming this doesn't happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
People are coming to you for a JOB.

Erik Larsen
Well then why did they show me their samples when I couldn't give them a job? And why do they show me their samples NOW when I can't give them a job?

Image publishes comic books--we don't hire individual artists. I have no jobs to give--and most of these guys aren't pitching books--they're showing me their samples.

REPLY:
Mr. Larsen, you can't even keep your bullshit straight in one post!

You said: "That's why--often--I'll give promising artists a break by letting them draw a back up story or pin-up--so they can see their work in print and learn from the experience rather than have to carry a book and fail. Some of these guys have gone on to do bigger and better things."

Sounds to me like you're giving out jobs. C'mon, we both know you are desperate to try and spin the truth so you don't look like a complete asshole, but try to at least keep your lies consistent in the same post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
The fact that you think that somehow your "artistic skills" are the reason people stand in line with their portfolios to see you is further proof of just how delusional you are. If you didn't have the power to write a check, you would be one of those forgotten guys in artist alley doing $25 sketches and praying that someone remembers you.

Get a reality check.

Erik Larsen:
When I was in artist alley--I was shown plenty of art from guys hoping to get a few pointers. That's how people learn--by showing folks their work and getting pointers. This hasn't changed. And despite your critical appraisal--I can walk into any company tomorrow and land a job. I don't claim to be one of the top fifty cartoonists to ever walk the Earth--but I am employable.

REPLY:
Again. Never said you weren't employable. I said your artwork and skills were workman-like, medicore. They get the job done, but no one really cares. Like a forgotten sit-com, it doesn't register a blip on the cultural radar.

And you know what? That doesn't make you a bad guy. You do your job. Plumbers do their job. Not a great big difference. The problem is when you start acting all delusional that people are coming to you for your artistic achievments, they're not. They're coming to you because you are the publisher of Image Comics.

People use to care about Jim Shooter back in his prime as well.

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-16-2007, 12:35 PM

districtone11

08-16-2007, 12:41 PM

Why would you say something like this? This kind of personal attack on someone's looks has no place on these boards. I don't care if you are making a point. Your point is so skewed when you attack like this. I am not protecting Erik, he's an adult and can do it himself, but I don't think this is called for not matter how rude you thought he was. You certainly aren't proving yourself to be a better person by doing this. Please stop acting like a child and end your rant.

I agree-and disagree.

I thought long and hard about posting that. And took it out at one point.

Normally, I would not post something like that. And I am still not sure if it was appropriate.

My point was to make a very strong point. I'm sick and tired of people hiding behind "I was just being honest" as an excuse to be rude and disrespectful of others.

To quote a book that has outsold anything Image has done: Do not judge, less ye be judged.

And no, I'm not a Christian, but that's a good rule to live by.

Mr. Larsen has shown his contempt for people who are not professional artists here time and again. Somehow he thinks that because he has a long career in comics, that gives him the right to attack and insult others.

He does so because he's "just being honest".

Its a taste of his own medicine. If he is "just being honest" by calling people "basketcases" and "hopeless", he should be able to be honest about his looks. He's a public figure and the "face" of Image Comics and thus, some he should be able to hear some honesty about same. He has placed himself in the public eye, and thus commenting on his image is just as legitmate as commenting on any other celebrity that choses to put themself in the spotlight.

Did it hurt? Probably no more than it hurts up-and-coming artists with dreams of being a comic book artist to hear/read that they are hopeless basketcases and that they don't even have the right to pick up a pencil.

My comments to him were no different than the insulting and rude comments he has made on this board, his column and what I witnessed in person. If Erik Larsen thinks that anything goes and any comment is appropriate because he is simply "being honest", he should be just as strong to hear the honest comments about himself.

As for a personal attack, how much more personal can it be to hear a guy like Erik Larsen say that you have no right to pick up a pencil after looking at something that you may have spent years creating. Something that is your dream? To those people, Mr. Larsen's comments are about as personal as you can get. Its totally acceptable to call someone's art "ugly" but not accept the same comments about your appearence? It would be one thing if Erik Larsen chose to be an annoymous artist/creator, but like I said, he's presented himself as a quasi-celebrity (in the real world, and a full-blown celebrity in the comic book world) and should be open to HONEST opinions regarding that persona--at least if he's claiming the right to be unprofessional in dealing with others under the guise of honesty.

He has simply no right to crush people's spirit just because he wants to "be honest". A convention isn't a court of law, and he could learn to deal with people in a less judgmental way. As I said, no one died and left him boss as to who is allowed to draw and who isn't.

districtone11

08-16-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
Get a reality check.

Do you have a clue of how bitter and angry you sound? Read what you have posted here. Read what you wrote in your column:

People who dare bring you their work have "Fragile egos", they have "no business putting pencil to paper", they are "basketcases" with "wretched samples", is this the way a professional publisher deals with people who bring work to them? Show some class. Instead of wagging your finger at others, take a good hard look at yourself.

Erik Larsen:
I think you're reading in a tone that simply isn't there. You're like one of those guys on a radio talk show that quotes a politician from the opposing parting and gives them the snottiest possible voice. There's nothing I've said that can't be taken in a different light when read in the spirit in which it was intended.

REPLY:
Really?

Explain what tone you meant by calling people "hopeless?" and "basketcases" and "fragile egos" and that they had no right to put pencil to paper? Give us the positive spin on those words and phrases.

Erik Larsen:
So your friend's art wasn't as great as you thought it was at the time--big deal! If he wasn't ready for the big leagues he needed to hear that from somebody--might as well be me--and if her got pissed off and determined to show people that he could cut it and he went out there and proved it--even better--then I motivated him to make the grade! Good for him!

And if he STILL hasn't broken in--well, maybe he needs to work at it a bit more. If a guy like me--with marginal artistic skills can make it--there's hope for him yet.

REPLY:
And if his book was published, as is, in the same format that you thought it wasn't "great" and needed to hear from you that it was "hopeless" what does that say about YOU?

Erik Larsen:
Thing is--in this business--people are always criticizing you. If it's not editors of publishers--it's anonymous trolls on the Internet. It's all part of the business. You stick your toe out there and sometimes the water's cold.

REPLY:
Save the speech for the next "My Daddy Draws Comic Books" lecture you give at your kid's school. Stop talking to people like they are children. I realize that you act like a child, that doesn't mean the rest of us want to listen to that level of immaturity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
And that's because you don't know how to handle people. What training have you had that makes you qualified to deal with the general public? Saying "no" to people is something that is part of any business. You can do it gracefully or you can be rude and unprofessional. The reason that most people walk away with unhappy feelings is that you treat them with no respect and in an unprofessional manner.

Erik Larsen:
That's a crock.

First--many of them are thankful and understand that I mean them no harm-

REPLY:
Considering how many people I've heard similiar stories from, you obviously have no idea of your actions and their results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
It doesn't take an expert in human relations to see that the attitude towards these people that you have displayed here probably translates in how you treat them when you are face to face.

Erik Larsen:
Exactly my point. They should know what they're getting themselves into. So--what was your buddy's problem? He's no expert in human relations, I'd gather.

REPLY:
Don't be an asshole. Do you really expect people to research YOU and YOUR attitudes regarding dealing with submissions at conventions before they approach you?

Maybe a few hardcore fans know that much about you, but the rest of us have lives and don't know the little quirks of every publisher and editor in the business.

When someone comes up to you and asks "can I tell you about my book?" They should not have to research and read your internet column to know that even if you say "yes", there's a pretty good chance that they will be subjected to a tirade of insults and rude behavior.

Be a little gracious to people. As you admit, you're not a very good artist, you're average. But somehow you got lucky enough to have a career in comics, and even become a guy with some power while others far more talented than you have to eek out a living. Because of that, maybe you should learn a few manners. Learn how to deal with people on a professional level, not the one that you are known for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by districtone11
EXACTLY! Then stop. If you don't see a legit benefit, why are you doing it? Find someone who enjoys working with people. Someone who doesn't see those looking for work as "basketcases", someone who actually can help the next generation of creators, and not spead the ill-will and hurt feelings that have obviously plagued you and your dealings with others. I don't think you are a bad or evil guy, but at the same time I think you lack the people skills to deal the general public in any way beyond the "fan/artist" relationship that you cling to.

Erik Larsen:
Again--you're doing my work for me. Wasn't my whole point that I didn't WANT to do this?

REPLY:
Then we have come to an agreement? You will not be looking at any more proposals at conventions?

Erik Larsen
In any case--how long ago did your buddy get his ass handed back to him? 'Cause I've made a real effort to reel it in a bit of late. I'm still honest, sure--but I try to point out places where they're going in the right direction instead of simply pointing out where they went wrong.

REPLY:
As I said, you never bothered to read a single word of the book. Never listened to what the book was about. You looked for pretty pictures. And then when they weren't your style. You proceeded to lambast it for a couple of minutes.

There was nothing that could be remotely construed as a "tip", it was "this is bad", "this is bad", "this is bad" etc. My impression was, you wanted to get back to your line of fans and autographs, and wanted to get the proposal away from your hands as soon as possible.

As another example of just how off base you were in your evaluations, I remember you looking for examples to complain about (that was my impression, that you were looking for things not to like) and you came across a page that you wanted to criticize. You picked it apart with all sorts of vague and meaningless complaints-"I don't like this angle, this panel is poorly balanced, etc." What was ironic was that less than 30 minutes before, Travis Charest was looking at the book and picked out that specific page as something he really like in particular. The exact same panel that you complained had a bad angle, he stated that he really liked it because the artist was going for something a-typical and difficult and pulled it off.

Again, my impression was that you were annoyed by the fact that my friend dared approach you and interrupt your precious fan time, and your comments reflected that. My impressions were reinforced when I read your column and it was full of bitching about people who pitch to you at cons.

The bottom line is that you didn't give the book or the creator a fair shake. If you were too busy, not in the mood, or just don't want to look at books, you should have the respect to say that to people. You do give them false hope when you agree to look/listen and then not be in the right frame of mind to do so.

Erik Larsen:
The honest truth is--underneath it all--I really DO want to help. There will always be those guys that are incapable of ever making it, sure, but I've had enough guys that saw the light when I explained how the detail they added was making their drawings hard to comprehend or why it's a good idea to have only the closest objects in a panel break the panel border or how to set up perspective that I don't think it's completely wasted effort.

REPLY:
Maybe this is true. I saw none of that in your interaction with my friend.

Erik Larsen:
But it's still draining--and it's still not fair to that guy that's been lugging around a backpack full of comics all afternoon. And most of the guys at shows are that guy--the fan who just wants to get a few books signed in a reasonable amount of time--and they can't do that if wannabe artists are jeopardizing everybody's time.

REPLY:
Back to my original point.

If you don't think it's fair. You can't do a fair job....THEN STOP DOING IT.

Man, for a publisher, you sure can balance priorities.

You want to make the fans happy? Then make the fans happy. You want to make wanna be professionals happy? Then make them happy. If you can't do both, then stop doing a half-assed job with both. The fans are not happy because they have to wait in line. The young creators are not happy because you are resentful to them for showing their work and thus giving a biased review.

You can't please everyone-and it is clear that because of what you are doing, you're not pleasing anyone.

Hundreds of fans would like an Adam Hughes sketch. Adam Hughes can't make hundreds of sketches over a weekend. What is he to do? Hundreds of crappy sketches so everyone has one? Or focus on what's important to him-a few good sketches and disappoint the fans who don't get what they want?

As an adult, you need to make these type of choices as to your priorities. When I say you act childish and like a spoiled brat its because you refuse to make these types of choices, and then go on the internet to whine and complain about it. All of us have to make choices as to how to divide our time, sorry if that little reality bothers you.

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-16-2007, 12:50 PM

Its a taste of his own medicine. If he is "just being honest" by calling people "basketcases" and "hopeless", he should be able to be honest about his looks. He's a public figure and the "face" of Image Comics and thus, some he should be able to hear some honesty about same.

Did it hurt? Probably no more than it hurts up-and-coming artists with dreams of being a comic book artist to hear/read that they are hopeless basketcases and that they don't even have the right to pick up a pencil.

My comments to him were no different than the insulting and rude comments he has made on this board, his column and what I witnessed in person.

The difference is that Erik's not being asked by people to judge them on their looks, they want to know about comics. If Erik was going around telling people that they're ugly, then maybe you'd have a point. As it stands... I really can't believe that you believe your own posts and assume you're just desperate for attention.

districtone11

08-16-2007, 01:12 PM

As it stands... I really can't believe that you believe your own posts and assume you're just desperate for attention.

You've insulted me and called me names previously in this thread simply because you are a fan of the Savage Dragon comic book and I had the nerve to post a negative experience I witnessed from that book's creator.

Even though you admit that you have nothing to add to my comments "Because I wasn't there, I can't comment on whether Erik was a "jerk" or whatever. Maybe he was. I wasn't there." You continue to act in inappropriate ways (name calling, etc) in response to me.

Please note that my issues are not with someone whose claim to legitimacy is a MySpace, but rather with Mr. Larsen and how he treats professionals and would-be professionals, and as such I will simple advise you (and the other fans here who wish to comment from a fan's point of view) that I will refrane from reply to your comments as per the request of the moderator (see his post #61 in this thread) I would kindly request that you (and your fellow fans who have similiarly nothing to add to my comments) refrain as well.

MadBastard

08-16-2007, 01:33 PM

Fragile egos?
No business putting pencil to paper?

There is the REAL Erik Larsen.

This rant is the equivalent of walking up to someone who doesn't know you, hurling curses at them until they get angry then saying to the crowd, "See? See? I told ya he was a rude jerk. This is the REAL him."

Please note that my issues are not with someone whose claim to legitimacy is a MySpace, but rather with Mr. Larsen and how he treats professionals and would-be professionals, and as such I will simple advise you (and the other fans here who wish to comment from a fan's point of view) that I will refrane from reply to your comments as per the request of the moderator (see his post #61 in this thread) I would kindly request that you (and your fellow fans who have similiarly nothing to add to my comments) refrain as well.

I might be reading this wrong, but you seem to be slipping in an insult while claiming to ask everyone to play nice. As for professionals, the only professionals who have commented in this thread have made claims to Larsen's affability. Do you have any substantiated claims to make? A number of times individuals here have requested you present what was said or provide examples of work that Larsen shredded. Either of these would go a long way to backing up what you are saying.

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-16-2007, 01:45 PM

You've insulted me and called me names previously in this thread simply because you are a fan of the Savage Dragon comic book and I had the nerve to post a negative experience I witnessed from that book's creator.

Where have I called you names? I said that you were acting cowardly because you're hiding behind a screen name. What else? I did say maybe you have too much time on your hands. I still think that's the case, but to be fair, it's the same with me. Hence all the postings.

Even though you admit that you have nothing to add to my comments "Because I wasn't there, I can't comment on whether Erik was a "jerk" or whatever. Maybe he was. I wasn't there." You continue to act in inappropriate ways (name calling, etc) in response to me.

I haven't acted in an inappropritate manner. Even if I had, how is it ok for you to do it and then not for me?

Please note that my issues are not with someone whose claim to legitimacy is a MySpace, but rather with Mr. Larsen and how he treats professionals and would-be professionals.

My claim to legitimacy is not a MySpace account. I was merely pointing out to you that I don't hide away from who I am on here. If I have an opinion, I'll happily let people know that it's me, Gavin Higginbotham, that is saying something. Not a random name.

And again, this isn't a slam against people using screen names. I've used them before in the past but chose to be myself in the end. I merely think that using an alias while insulting others is a bit cowardly.

and as such I will simple advise you (and the other fans here who wish to comment from a fan's point of view) that I will refrane from reply to your comments as per the request of the moderator (see his post #61 in this thread) I would kindly request that you (and your fellow fans who have similiarly nothing to add to my comments) refrain as well.

The moderator was asking people to be nice to each other, I don't think I've been mean to you (or anyone else at CBR). I also don't go around insulting people's appearance though, and making claims against someone without offering up any proof whatsoever.

districtone11

08-16-2007, 02:05 PM

Where have I called you names? I said that you were acting cowardly because you're hiding behind a screen name. What else? I did say maybe you have too much time on your hands. I still think that's the case, but to be fair, it's the same with me. Hence all the postings.

I haven't acted in an inappropritate manner. Even if I had, how is it ok for you to do it and then not for me?

The fact is that I posted my experiences. I did not post to you or in reply to you. You took it upon yourself to attack a total stranger, calling them cowardly and saying that they had too much time on their hands. Further, you claimed that I was simply another poster who created another screen name just to fool people here.

Furthermore, you claim that I am a fake and my opinions invalid simply because I do not list a MySpace page like you do.

All of these things were done unilaterly by you over a topic (Mr. Larsen's treatment of people who submit work to him) that you have absolutely no first hand knowledge or opinion about.

That my friend is inappropriate. Which is why the moderator of this board has asked you, and those like you, to refrain from the insults and name calling.

As for your claim that "My claim to legitimacy is not a MySpace account", let me quote you: "As for who I am, I've got a myspace page which actually has me on it... under my real name." According to your implication, if I had a MySpace account like you do, and we all know that there is never any fake identies on MySpace, I would have some "legitimacy" to comment here.

Gavin Higginbotham, BotF

08-16-2007, 03:41 PM

The fact is that I posted my experiences. I did not post to you or in reply to you. You took it upon yourself to attack a total stranger, calling them cowardly and saying that they had too much time on their hands. Further, you claimed that I was simply another poster who created another screen name just to fool people here.

I didn't "attack" you. I was defending Erik. Now, I know he can defend himself (and indeed, he has done). You WERE acting cowardly. You do seem to have too much time on your hands... but again, clearly, so do I.

And yes, I did make an initial claim. You appeared the same time as the original poster with the same story. I don't particularly think that's the case now, so sorry about that implication.

Furthermore, you claim that I am a fake and my opinions invalid simply because I do not list a MySpace page like you do.

I don't think you're a fake. Nor did I claim that your opinions are invalid because you don't have a myspace.

The point I was making, and have done a few times now, is that you're posting under an alter ego so it appears that you're hiding yourself, for whatever reasons (fun, fear, comfort, whatever).

I mentioned myspace just as a way of pointing out that I wasn't Erik Larsen under another name. You asked me to prove I wasn't him. I did. That was it. It's you that seems to be obsessed with me mentioning myspace, not me.

All of these things were done unilaterly by you over a topic (Mr. Larsen's treatment of people who submit work to him) that you have absolutely no first hand knowledge or opinion about.

I posted because you were claiming that many people had been treated badly by Erik. I posted that I'd heard many people say the opposite. What I said was that I wasn't present when your friend spoke to Erik so could not comment on that, not the whole subject. Try reading what I actually wrote and not what you think I wrote. It may help you out.

That my friend is inappropriate. Which is why the moderator of this board has asked you, and those like you, to refrain from the insults and name calling.

The moderator has not asked "me" to refrain from insults. Point to where he singled me out. You can't? Oh wait, that's because it didn't happen. Maybe "those like me", whoever they are, but I don't think it was me that was being referenced there. Maybe I'm wrong.

And again, I've not called you names. I said you were acting cowardly, not that you yourself was a coward.

As for your claim that "My claim to legitimacy is not a MySpace account", let me quote you: "As for who I am, I've got a myspace page which actually has me on it... under my real name." According to your implication, if I had a MySpace account like you do, and we all know that there is never any fake identies on MySpace, I would have some "legitimacy" to comment here.

No, again, that's not what I said. I'd bet most people here don't post under their real names and that's fine. Anyone can post on here, and they should be able to.

Again, it's using a screen name while claiming that a respected comics creator is a "jerk" that I don't like. If you were making any real ownership of your statements, then perhaps I'd respect your opinion more. But as you post under a made up name, I find it difficult to respect what you're saying.

And ask anyone of my friends on myspace or wherever and they'll say I'm not a made up person. Hell, if you happen to live in England, I'd offer up my home address and we could continue this conversation in person. I assure you, I'm a real person (never thought I'd have to make that particular claim).

Brad Barton

08-16-2007, 04:10 PM

Honestly, is anyone here still reading the asinine back-and-forth that districtone11 went out of his way to craft?

It's just so silly, what exactly are you trying to accomplish at this point? Trying to "turn" people against Erik? Well, you obviously failed on that count...maybe if you had approached the subject with a little more tact, your words would be more credible.

DonC

08-16-2007, 04:39 PM

I have a question for you, districtone11: What is it you want here? Clearly you or your friend felt wronged by Erik. Fine, you're allowed. But you've done twenty-some-odd posts of the same thing. You come in, rant about Erik, insult anyone who dares to point out that you're avoided direct requests to prove this, avoid those requests, again, and then you do it all over again.

Why? What is it you hope to acomplish? Is MadBastard correct? Are you hoping to goad Erik into a fight so that you can "prove" he's a jerk? Maybe you're trying to get banned? That way you can go boast to your friend that Erik had you removed from this site? Or is it just like Sean and Gavin said, you're just desperate for attention?

What is it you're trying to do?

Also, you say Erik has "no right to crush people's spirit just because he wants to 'be honest.' A convention isn't a court of law, and he could learn to deal with people in a less judgmental way. As I said, no one died and left him boss as to who is allowed to draw and who isn't."

Well, if you can't handle criticism you have no right submitting comics to him, or anyone. Criticism is part of the game. If you can't take it then you should try your hand at another career. Maybe farming or something to do with oil production. How about the Air Force?

DonC

08-16-2007, 04:41 PM

Dammit, Bee. I need to type faster. Here you go:

http://vivirlatino.com/i/2007/05/coke.JPG

Erik Larsen

08-16-2007, 05:06 PM

The problem is, you didn't even give the book a chance to evaluate it. I watched you. You paged through the book, spending less than 20 or 25 seconds on it and then proceeded to insult and disparage the guy and the artwork.

That was sufficient time to determine whether he was ready or not. He wasn't, apparently. This isn't rocket science. It takes a second to tell if a person is incredible, average, mediocre or hopeless.

And we ALL do that--when a person goes into a store to buy a comic book they make a split second evaluation of the books they're looking at to determine which ones they intend to purchase. It's not magic. You do the same thing all the time.

Arguing with you is pointless. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You don't know me. You don't know my work and you clearly have no idea what books Image even publishes.

Hint: it's no longer 1993.

You're acting like an ass and making a fool of yourself in the process.

I've had my fill of it.

Brad Barton

08-16-2007, 06:05 PM

You're acting like an ass and making a fool of yourself in the process.Not trying to perpetuate the argument, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason he chose to post anonymously; so he wouldn't have to worry about feeling like an ass.

Back to the thread topic (if that's at all possible at this point), how do you and Image's Editorial staff prefer to look at submissions, Erik? Is people appraoching you at Con's (not in signing lines, mind you) with a submission something you would *rather not* deal with, or are there instances where you'd prefer it, or...?

The bad thing about sending submissions through the mail: No instant feedback.
For better or worse, MOST creators want to hear the truth about their work so they can get to either producing it, or fixing it (whichever the case may be) as soon as possible.
Sending a submission in through the mail is sort of like sending it off into the void....sure, you may get a reply, but when and what it will be remain completely open-ended.....so I can understand why someone would seek that instant analysis that only an in-person review can provide.

That said -- What is the best way (time, place, book format, etc.) for someone to present to you (or Eric, or Jim) their work? This thread seems like as good a time as any to make it clear, it could potentially save a lot of anonymous crying in the future...

DonC

08-16-2007, 07:22 PM

You're acting like an ass and making a fool of yourself in the process.

I've had my fill of it.

Aww, come on, Erik. This dude's only one or two posts away from a complete and total meltdown.

By the way, it turns out I did buy one of your comics recently. I got the She-Dragon special off of Franchesco! last weekend. It was great. It looked like one of those comics where everyone involved had a blast making it.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

08-16-2007, 07:36 PM

Doesn't "The Pirates of Coney Island" an eight issue miniseries by Rick Spears and Vasilis Lolos count?

Hey, I'm trying...

You're going to pass on Captain Madd Dogg for that?

What if I changed it to Kaptain Madd Dogg, and told you the ship was called The Bloody Death Bringer?

Eh? Eh?

You know you want it!

(For an added true fact - I used to dress as a Pirate and do kids parties in my late teens. It was back before Pirates Of The Carribean, and it was always awkward having to revise history to explain to kids what pirates actually did).

And we ALL do that--when a person goes into a store to buy a comic book they make a split second evaluation of the books they're looking at to determine which ones they intend to purchase. It's not magic. You do the same thing all the time.

It takes me less time than that. 10 secs and I know whether I'm interested or not.
And if I'm interested after a flip, it's got another few minutes of thinking about it and comparing it to what else I could buy.
(It's gotta be a stand out for me to remember it after I've looked around the shop as well).

Erik Larsen

08-16-2007, 08:46 PM

Not trying to perpetuate the argument, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason he chose to post anonymously; so he wouldn't have to worry about feeling like an ass.

Back to the thread topic (if that's at all possible at this point), how do you and Image's Editorial staff prefer to look at submissions, Erik? Is people appraoching you at Con's (not in signing lines, mind you) with a submission something you would *rather not* deal with, or are there instances where you'd prefer it, or...?

Cons are a bad time to pitch books--the materials people want to drop off are too easy to lose with all of the shuffling of books from one box to another. When cons end, often boxes are sent elsewhere and it's a hassle to pack things up and stuff them into our carry on luggage. The best method is to have preliminary submissions sent via e-mail--preferably jpegs of five or more, finished sequential pages. Complete guidelines can be found at:

http://www.imagecomics.com/submissions.php

You can e-mail me by clicking on the link at the bottom of any of my columns but honestly--don't expect a lot of feedback. We get thousands of submissions and we can't possibly go into a lot of detail. If it looks cool--I'll usually ask to see a hardcopy, mailed in to the Image office.

Erik Larsen

08-16-2007, 11:23 PM

Aww, come on, Erik. This dude's only one or two posts away from a complete and total meltdown.

It sounded more like he was two posts PAST a complete and total meltdown to me...

DonC

08-17-2007, 04:30 AM

It sounded more like he was two posts PAST a complete and total meltdown to me...

Yeah, he definately has issues. It amazes me how personal some people can take portfolio reviews. I've seen people walk away from them in tears. A couple years ago I was at the CrossGen booth and Bart Sears was there. Bart was their Artist Director at the time so he was doing portfolio reviews by appointment. So guy in from of me in the autograph line goes up to Bart and asks if he can get an appointment. This is the entire of their conversation:

Guy: "Hi, Mr. Sears, I had a portfolio review appointment last year and I missed it. I was wondering if I could get one today?"

Bart: "I'm sorry. All the review spots for this weekend are full."

Guy: "But I had one for last year and I missed it. I was wondering if I could get one today."

Bart: "I'm sorry. All the review spots for this weekend are full."

Guy: "But I had one for last year and I missed it. I was wondering if I could get one today."

Bart: "I'm sorry. All the review spots for this weekend are full."

After about five minutes Bart finally told the guy he wasn't going to get an appointment and that he was holding up the autograph line.

You find that dude today and he'll probably tell you how Bart Sears is the biggest asshole in comics. You find the six or seven people in line with me and we'll tell you how Bart tried for five minutes to be nice and they guy just wouldn't take the hint. Sometimes you have to be blunt.

Another time I saw where a guy had worked hours, if not days, on a pin-up he had in his portfolio. First page. This was the showcase piece of his artwork. The editor, I think it was Andy Helfer at DC, looked at it for a few seconds, said it was nice, but that it shouldn't be in his portfolio. Sequential art only. The guy had one of those "Oh, okay" crestfallen looks.

It ain't personal, folks. I'm just a fan and I know that. I don't know why people wanting to be artists don't.

riftt

08-17-2007, 11:33 AM

Just finished reading this awesome thread and I have a few thoughts:

1. Districtone11 - welcome to the internets. learn to use the quote function.

2. If you are going to break into the comics industry (or any creative industry) you need to have some knowledge about how that industry works. From your postings here, you have very, very little of this knowledge (your comment regarding the greenlighting of the youngblood hardcover was especially laughable and devoid of intelligence).

3. The artists who do make it in this industry are the ones who get their work looked over by someone like Larsen, receive comments that are critical (whether constructive or mean-spirited..IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER) and then go back to their place of zen and work on something even better. The artists who never make it in this industry are those who take that criticism and then bitch about it on a messageboard.

4. Similiar to #3...I really don't care if Larsen spit in your friend's face and tossed his portfolio off the balcony - if your friend didn't take that, shut the heck up and channel it into doing better work than he isn't much of a creator.

5. The creative entertainment industries (comics, books, film, tv, music) are not for wimps. You will be rejected. A lot. And it won't all be from smiling, back-slapping daddies who want you to do well and wish you the best of luck. Deal with it.

6. I was at SDCC this year and was witness to a few hilariously horrific pitches and portfolios. I would say evaluating artists is easy...it's the wannabe writer who thinks he has the most original! idea! ever! (What if...Batman finally decided to kill the Joker?!?!**) and thinks that means he should get to write one of the big guns that is the big headache.

7. And this is what I don't understand...IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED, how about NOT submitting to the big 3 (4, 5 etc) right off the bat? There are plenty of great artists working for smaller companies that would be much more amenable to critiquing your work and would actually give you a better shot of building a relationship and taking something valuable away at a con. Everyone is so starry-eyed that they sabotage themselves because they confuse the finish line with the starting line.

P.S. District, please do not respond to my post until you master the quote tags. Thanks.

**Actual pitch overheard given to a cornered DC Editior (the one wearing the green lantern jersey/shirt...Mike Carlin I think?) at San Diego

juan ferreyra

08-17-2007, 04:35 PM

Portfolios reviews are hard, all your dreams and expectations are put into them and is very easy t take it personal, but the ones that end up being the most useful are the ones where they tell you the truth, those are the ones that make you grow as an artist.
it sucks when people tell you your stuff isnt good, but you have to suck it up and learn from the experience, grab that bad feeling and transform it into energy to improve and practice.

dont take it personal, please. I know that from your perspective your work is awesome, I used to think that my stuff was really good , when actually it really lacked in a lot of ways, backgrounds, perspectives, angles, storytelling, and after a year or two you see it again and you realize it sucked. that those guys were tottaly right about it.

Brad Barton

08-17-2007, 05:04 PM

3. The artists who do make it in this industry are the ones who get their work looked over by someone like Larsen, receive comments that are critical (whether constructive or mean-spirited..IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER) and then go back to their place of zen and work on something even better. The artists who never make it in this industry are those who take that criticism and then bitch about it on a messageboard. Quoted for truth.

mattx110

08-17-2007, 11:23 PM

yea, you're not just dealing with making sure you can create good samples in a decent amount of time with no mistakes, you have to catch the reviewer at the right time, and if he just got a tooth pulled, you're entering the comics business is postponed. i'm still i dunno, 5 years before i make a real hard attempt to get a small-time book published and i'll be working and practicing massively up until then.

plus, the reviewer could be wrong. but you can't tell that until you meet another 5 editors and they tell you you got horrible advice. but this is better than ignoring good advice and having those 5 editors tell you the same thing that the first guy did and you wasted all this time.

i don't plan on ever "breaking into" the big two. i've got a milllion ideas for each marvel and DC character. every single one. i could sustain about 10 years of daredevil, 5 on spiderman, 15 batman, 3 or 4 superman, and god knows how long it would take to work through the x-men. but quite a few major writers in comics started out self-publishing or working through a lucky break at image or dark horse or oni or wahtever. and it's pointless to expect the same treatment because no matter how skilled those writers and artists where, a bit of luck put them in the right place at the right time. and there are still terrific artists and writers doing their smaller books, and side advertising jobs and whatever they need to to put out a comic.

so um, distinctone? the only answer for your friend is "keep trying, get better, see what you can do without image comics helping you because it might be better for your career in the long run". obviously story-boarding can be more lucrative, where's my skroce and darrrow comics? but comics for a publishing company is about the money. for the artists, it's only half about the money.

you don't have to love erik larsen, but if you work from the assumption "everything he said is wrong" you might miss something important that hurts you down the line. you never know.

oh, and a bit off topic. joker is one of the characters you don't get to kill unless you already got your pitch approved on how to bring the joker back to life.