Do you feel sick playing as the good/bad guy? [Archive]

StreetFighterRyu

08-01-2007, 11:11 PM

This question of mine is mainly targeted to games that give you choices of doing something good, evil, or just bad. Like KOTOR (Knights of the Old Republic) and Darkwatch. When you play those types of games, do you feel a little quezy sometimes when you're doing a "good deed" and that you can't stand doing it? Or stealing, killing an innocent when you're the "good guy"?

I actually have this problem when I play KOTOR and other RPGs. When it comes to games like God of War, Saint's Row, and GTA, it doesn't bother me how many innocents I killed. You know? You're not doing it for real or anything. But I don't know. Can someone please explain to me what's with this issue? Am I playing too much? lol Or is it just my "inner boyscout" doing this to me? Because seriously, I would actually hesitate when playing Dark Side and feel really good when I play Light Side despite that I'm just playing a game. So, am I the only one and have a funny issue, or do you get something similar to this?

'Cause what's funny is that my brother would actually snap for playing Light Side. lol He only lasted 2 minutes.

Sanagi

08-02-2007, 01:42 AM

For me it just depends on how convincing the world is... Twilight Princess has no morality system, but the first time I had to kill something I actually felt guilty because it was so lifelike.

But in Ultima: Quest of the Avatar I'll gladly pay 1 gold for 99 mandrake since I know I can just go talk to Flamis a bunch of times to bring my honesty level back up.

Gargus

08-02-2007, 05:38 AM

No to both because its just a game.

Jmacq1

08-02-2007, 06:40 AM

I think any trepidation about playing the "bad guy" might be more worrying that somehow it's going to come back and bite you in the butt later than morality concerns. ;)

There's also the minor problem that with most games the "bad guy" story isn't usually considered the "official" story. Though that's really only a concern for things like Star Wars games, where the plotline will likely end up as part of the overall continuity later on.

I usually play through games like that twice anyway, once "good" and once "bad." I usually don't enjoy the "Bad" as much though...aside from the few moments here and there where you can be such a glorious bastard that it becomes funny or shocking in its over-the-topness (KotOR 1 spoiler examples: convincing everyone to kill each other in the "Romeo and Juliet style family feud on Dantooine" for the funny side, or forcing Zaalbar to kill Mission on the shocking side) , it's just not that much fun for me to be a complete a-hole to everyone you meet, even in a video game.

If they ever make a game in that vein where you can be evil but still be portrayed as a character that sane people might follow around, respect, and listen to, I'll be set. Many games (KotOR was particularly guilty of this) end up making your band of buddies out to be a bunch of gullible, spineless idiots for trusting you if you play the "evil" path of the game).

DaeJi

08-02-2007, 07:23 AM

I've always like going down the middle, which is nest to impossible to do on games like KOTOR and Jade Empire; those I tend to go light side. However I was pure grey playing Fable and loved being the charming hero who would steal and lie when I had too.

Karl H

08-02-2007, 07:26 AM

I always have to play star wars games as lightsiders. just the way I was brought up I guess.

Genma:TheDestroyer

08-02-2007, 08:01 AM

*Thinks back to the towns I've left ruined (Jade Empire), families decimated (Knights of the Old Republic), races I've doomed to extinction just for a bit of gold (Overlord), compatriots I've manipulated, then left to die (The Suffering), people I've exploited for money (Fable:The Lost Chapters), and many more. Don't get me started on my behavior in Oblivion or Deus Ex*

...Nope.

Hearing "How could you", and "You monster", is actually pretty commonplace in those game worlds, nowadays.

And with games like Fable 2, Mass Effect, Two Worlds and Bioshock coming out soon, I imagine there'll be much more.

Mwahahahahaa!

*Cough*

Have to work on the laugh, of course. But I'll get it down.

xxunder-takerxx

08-02-2007, 08:39 AM

i think in a game like KOTOR, what you do to people actually effects what goes on in the game, and has reproccusions, or rewards. In GTA, its pretty much just plain fun to run people down, not like in KOTOR where you can get so caught up in the amazing story, that you actually feel like you are there and you are actually hurting these people, and that can give you a sense of amazing guilt, or become drunk on evil.

in my opinion, i LOVE games like KOTOR because you really feel like you are there and you alone decide the fate of these people, and you are held responsible.

StreetFighterRyu

08-02-2007, 08:43 AM

Funny thing. In Overlord you're already playing as the "villian". lol For tha it doesn't bother me if I just killed random people. lol I like said about Saint's Row and GTA.

BlairH

08-02-2007, 10:46 AM

Funny thing. In Overlord you're already playing as the "villian". lol For tha it doesn't bother me if I just killed random people. lol I like said about Saint's Row and GTA.

In the GTA games (particularly San Andreas) the main character isn't simply "evil". He does some bad things -for sure- but he has a moral compass.

Aelo

08-02-2007, 12:21 PM

Deleted due to profanity - Perry

StreetFighterRyu

08-02-2007, 06:34 PM

In the GTA games (particularly San Andreas) the main character isn't simply "evil". He does some bad things -for sure- but he has a moral compass.

Sorry, I didn't mean to address the GTA series like that. I meant the killing random people for no reason thing.

Kyle_Ion

08-02-2007, 06:42 PM

For games like Fable, KotoR and KotoR2 I go straight evil. I can't stand playing mr or mrs goody goody two shoes in games where they give you a choice to be evil. Those games where you don't have a choice and you have to be good I don't like it but hey what can I do about it.

G. Wayne

08-03-2007, 05:23 PM

I usually run through the evil options first in as many different ways as I can imagine, but I tend to stick to more, ah, "noble" evil more often than not. It pops up more in KoToR 1, but there are some sequences where I go the neutral route. (The woman on Tatooine with the skull plate, for example.)

In Fable: TLC I couldn't bring myself to take out the teacher, his name escapes me, to get the last good soul.

I've stuck with City of Villains more than City of Heroes. Playing through the Dark Brotherhood missions in Oblivion is amusing too.

Gonna get Overlord sooner or later. I love the comparison that instead of playing Good or Evil, you can play Evil or Really Evil.

Mike Pothier

08-04-2007, 01:36 AM

I can't be evil, even in fantasy games. I just don't have it in me. In NWN or KOTOR, I'm always the upstanding guy who defends the innocent and tries to do everything for the good of all. I totally have the paladin-type personality.

I really wanted to punch Kreia from KOToR 2 several times when she constantly questioned my upstanding nature.

And yeah, I'm aware thats not a paladin-like statement...:rolleyes:

DWEarhart

08-04-2007, 02:29 AM

FTW, good sir. F - T - W.

All's fair, love and sympathy. Both - I'm fresh out.

Thorlief

08-04-2007, 05:17 AM

I play lightside because I suspect if I cut short conversations and kill NPCs the game will definitely be shorter

StreetFighterRyu

08-04-2007, 08:23 PM

I play lightside because I suspect if I cut short conversations and kill NPCs the game will definitely be shorter

Hahahaha. Good point.

I really wanted to punch Kreia from KOToR 2 several times when she constantly questioned my upstanding nature.

And yeah, I'm aware thats not a paladin-like statement...:rolleyes:

Well, in her defense, she's wise enough to know practically anything. Half the times she's right about this and that. When it comes to light side, she doesn't mind seeing it as long as you're not overdoing it. Which I try not to.

Tyr

08-05-2007, 04:45 AM

I played the light side in both games, not that I'm incapable of evil...but if I have to decide between one or the other I typically choose good.

Though really I don't like having to choose between the two, I liked the moral ambiguity of games like Fallout, Mercenaries, and the Elder Scrolls Series, where sometimes to be a good guy, you had to get your hands dirty. Well that and those games didn't beat me over the head with it if I wanted to practice a little evil from time to time.

In Kotor I chose the light for two reasons, one because I felt some of the bad choices didn't make me feel all sith like, they felt more like what a petty thug would do, "Taking scraps, when I should be taking worlds." As Canderous put it. If I'm going to be Sith then I want to do manipulative Palpatine like stuff. Not shaking down locals for a few extra credits.

There's also the case of game mechanics. In the first game I played a guardian, and as such used my saber more then force powers, which I just used for buffs most of the time, since the light side has more buffs then the dark side and I didn't need much use for Force Storm, I choose light. If I wanted to use stuff like force storm bad enough I had Jolee to do that for me.

Jack

08-05-2007, 04:04 PM

I was raised on Japanese RPGs, so my default mode of play is "good guy who steals everything within sight".

Tyr

08-05-2007, 06:31 PM

I was raised on Japanese RPGs, so my default mode of play is "good guy who steals everything within sight".

Hehehe, good one, Looks like I got me a new sig :p

Jeff F

08-05-2007, 07:21 PM

I always go for the gloriously evil manical bastard.

I'm a fairly nice guy, it's good to go against the grain when it doesn't matter.

Shellhead

08-05-2007, 08:02 PM

I appreciate games that allow me to play either good or evil or even just amoral characters. And if the whole setting is relatively evil, like Vampire: Bloodlines, then I can get into it. But I am not very comfortable playing an evil character who does bad things to innocent people. I'm an atheist, but I still think of myself as a good guy.

DaeJi

08-05-2007, 09:46 PM

I'm an atheist, but I still think of myself as a good guy.

Why would being an atheist mean you wouldn't be a good guy? Good morals are good morals, beliefs be damned.

I think the decision to be good or bad depends a lot on the game. When dealing with a game where the NPCs are suppost to be good but desperate people I can't bring myself to be evil; I can be a jerk, but an overall hero who helps people.

StreetFighterRyu

08-05-2007, 10:43 PM

I was raised on Japanese RPGs, so my default mode of play is "good guy who steals everything within sight".

Hence, the anti-hero.

DaeJi

08-05-2007, 10:46 PM

Hence, the anti-hero.

How did the word "anti-hero" come to mean a non-traditional (jerk) hero? I mean, the word "anti" means the opposite of something, so "anti-hero" should actually be another word for "villain."

StreetFighterRyu

08-05-2007, 10:49 PM

How did the word "anti-hero" come to mean a non-traditional (jerk) hero? I mean, the word "anti" means the opposite of something, so "anti-hero" should actually be another word for "villain."

Well, looking at Batman, and some of the other characters, I would say that they are heros, but don't follow laws or codes.

Sanagi

08-06-2007, 01:01 AM

How did the word "anti-hero" come to mean a non-traditional (jerk) hero? I mean, the word "anti" means the opposite of something, so "anti-hero" should actually be another word for "villain."
The reversal is in the character's personality, not in their role in the story. Also, if anti-hero meant villain, it would be a useless term.

Tyr

08-06-2007, 01:33 AM

Hence, the anti-hero.

Actually it was joke about japanese rpg's where the player was always a good guy but you'd find lots of stuff randomly scattered around towns, which you took without anybody in the game caring about, a lot of times they'd be cool weapons. There's been many a time when I've walked into one guys house and taken his sword right in front of him, but is he worried about it? Nope, he's to concerned about how the dread lord Zamos is such a fiend. :p

mattx110

08-06-2007, 11:12 AM

Actually it was joke about japanese rpg's where the player was always a good guy but you'd find lots of stuff randomly scattered around towns, which you took without anybody in the game caring about, a lot of times they'd be cool weapons. There's been many a time when I've walked into one guys house and taken his sword right in front of him, but is he worried about it? Nope, he's to concerned about how the dread lord Zamos is such a fiend. :p

"hi, my name is link, and i'm here to eviscerate all your pottery.":cool:

Metronome35

08-06-2007, 12:00 PM

How did the word "anti-hero" come to mean a non-traditional (jerk) hero? I mean, the word "anti" means the opposite of something, so "anti-hero" should actually be another word for "villain."

I think the definition of "anti-hero" is a protaganist devoid of some of the usual qualities of a typical hero, like bravery, honor, ethics, etc.

Gezora

08-06-2007, 04:59 PM

Sanagi

08-06-2007, 06:32 PM

My former roommate and I observed something interesting while playing Fable.

His character is completely, totally evil. Horns, halo of flies, sacrificing children and everything. He's a fairly nice guy.

My character was a paladin most pure. Donates to the church and school, always picks the quests that do the most good, all that jazz. I'm.... well, I'm me.

Makes ya think.
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/10E/EN/Card129808.jpg
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/PLC/en-us/Card122423.jpg
The result is the same either way.

Alex

08-06-2007, 06:52 PM

I tend to say i'm going to be a bad guy in games where you have a choice, end up being good, because i'm so used to being the good guys in games it just seems natural.
But when i think about it, if i wasn't good, and i wasn't bad, why would my character be in the game?

Woman is getting mugged, if im good i stop the mugger, if im bad i help him, if im neither i would probably go home and make a sandwich, maybe call the cops.

StreetFighterRyu

08-07-2007, 09:17 AM

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/10E/EN/Card129808.jpg
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/PLC/en-us/Card122423.jpg
The result is the same either way.

Haha True.

IWoman is getting mugged, if im good i stop the mugger, if im bad i help him, if im neither i would probably go home and make a sandwich, maybe call the cops.

Or just completely ignore everything and don't call the cops. lol

Doomas

08-07-2007, 06:16 PM

I've encountered those morally ambigious moments in games with the same problems. In Fable where you are given the choice to kill the girl at the end in the arena, I couldn't do it, its just a game, but it didn't feel right just the same. The grand theft auto games are a different beast. Its almost too cartoonish and its kind of hard not too kill people. I mean just trying to drive around without killing people by accident would be difficult.

StreetFighterRyu

08-08-2007, 08:50 AM