Jack Zodiac
07-30-2007, 05:19 PM
From Darwyn Cooke's panel at SDCC (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11420):
The subject of sex, violence and other material termed “adult” was a popular one, and Cooke discussed his thoughts on it at length.
“I think the word ‘adult' is often used in the most ironic fashion in this business. The material termed ‘adult' is among the most juvenile. It's adult because the boobies are big or because the guy says ‘shit' ten times. The themes are as juvenile as imaginable. However, you can do almost any subject matter you want if you present it in the right way. In ‘The Spirit,' we've beaten the tar out of him, we've melted a poor guy's head, we've got a guy in love with an animal, and this is all perfectly acceptable because of the way it is presented.”
This doesn't mean that Cooke doesn't enjoy darker, grittier comics. “I read and loved ‘Watchmen' and a lot of the books that came out because of it,” he said. “But I don't think anyone expected to see the entire industry turn around into that. I sometimes fear that in this industry a lot of people are eager to make the easiest choice. That is to say, killing a character or perhaps raping a character, or any other number of other things are very easy ways to get readers' attention or to create a stir, but does it serve the characters' needs ultimately? I think it's far more difficult to sit down these days and create a story that is compelling and exciting and emotionally rewarding that doesn't skirt these lines. That takes real work. Those are the kind of books we've tried to do. We draw lines that we won't cross, so in order to engage the reader we have to make sure that the story really works and is really involving. ‘New Frontier' was an attempt to say ‘See? We can still do this! Heroes can still be heroes!'”
With all the problems Cooke sees in the comics industry, from the so-called adult material, to the lack of fresh ideas, what would he change about the industry?
“I wonder if anything about it really needs to be changed right now,” he said. “I honestly have to wonder if it isn't naturally heading where it has to go. By that I mean, it's a very exciting time for comics now, just not in the direct market. If we look at manga sales and graphic novels in bookstores and the fact that ‘Fun Home' was named book of the year, not graphic novel of the year, but book of the year we see that comics have arrived.
“People are ready to enjoy and accept them and we're seeing growth everywhere, except in the direct market. So I'm not sure that a change needs to happen, as much as time is going to allow one aspect of the market to overtake another. At some point twenty-five years ago, the direct market made a strong decision about what they were doing and in one way it really saved mainstream comics by putting them in specialty stores and catering to the people who bought them. But let me ask you this, when we're all old and dead, who's going to be reading these things? Because, I don't see the kids here that are going to grow up to become the second generation or third or fourth.
“To be quite honest, I think that the direct market comics that we're all here talking about are on their way to extinction. I don't see any way around it. It doesn't matter how much money the Spider-Man movies make, if it doesn't bring anybody in to buy the comics. This theory's been floating for twenty years now that these movies will bring people back to comics - it doesn't work that way. Ask a twelve-year-old kid on the street, he probably thinks Spider-man was created for the movie, or for the cartoon. He doesn't know it's a comic book. Ultimately, the characters will endure in film and animation and other media but I really don't see how they're going to survive [in comic-form] past a certain point the way things are going.
“The monthly comic book is becoming less and less important. The collection is the key now. Thirty years ago, before they started collecting this material when books just came out once a month, it would be unthinkable that a book would ship late. It never happened. In the real world if you work at a magazine and that magazine ships an hour late, you're all fired. That's just the way the world works. It's no longer important in this industry whether books ship on time and that should tell you all you need to know about the emphasis being placed on the monthlies. Ultimately, I think we're going to see graphic novels, manga, superhero books, and everything else in album form in book chains and they'll have to fight it out with all the other product available, which is I think, the way it should be.”
Darwyn Cooke has won an Eisner Award every year, for the past three years, for his work at DC Comics on New Frontier, which he won twice for, and Solo. The only other people who could say that are Willingham for Fables and Grant Morrison for We3, Seven Soldiers, and All-Star Superman. Cooke has just announced that he'll be leaving The Spirit with issue twelve, and on his way out the door, he had these things to say.
My question is, despite the fact that his criticism isn't anything new or unspoken of, because he's been such a critically acclaimed creator, will the industry give any thought to his critiques about "adult" themes in comics or about the direction mainstream comics are going in the direct market? And do you agree or disagree with him about the lack of "fresh blood" movies, cartoons, and video games are bringing to comics (superhero comics, mainly)?
Not surprisingly, if you look at the numbers over the past few years, books like Amazing Spider-Man, Batman, Superman or X-Men don't really skyrocket in sales in the direct market in relation to their motion picture releases, which Cooke is correct about. He attributes this to these different mediums not attracting new people to the characters or stories, but I think it has more to do with the limited availability of comics books outside of the direct market anymore. If you could still go to the corner drug store and find a spinner rack of Marvel comics, you'd probably see more kids buying books like Amazing Spider-Man, or at least the Marvel Adventures line.
And I know, superhero comics sell outside of the direct market at bookstores and, yes, some grocery stores and drug stores, but nowhere near as well as they did decades ago. So, is it lack of interest in the main product, or lack of availability? Should comics compete with other books and manga in bookstores as collections instead of being specialized, or will comic book speciality stores and monthly ongoing comic books still be marketable in the next few decades?
I think his last statement is the hardest-hitting. To companies like Marvel and DC, monthly comic books have become less important, which is why books like All-Star Batman and Robin and The Ultimates can get away with being several months late and still sell in the top ten, and then continue to see thriving trade paperback sales; but are these exceptions, or the rule?
Personally, and I'll admit my opinion's a little skewed, I think monthly comic books will continue for a while until the companies behind them either bankrupt or decide that releasing them online is cheaper and easier and more accessible. But I don't think we'll ever see the day that Superman or Amazing Spider-Man only come out once every few months in volumes like manga. It might not be growing very much, but I think that right now, there's still a lot of appeal in going into a comic book store every week or month and getting your favorite books.
The subject of sex, violence and other material termed “adult” was a popular one, and Cooke discussed his thoughts on it at length.
“I think the word ‘adult' is often used in the most ironic fashion in this business. The material termed ‘adult' is among the most juvenile. It's adult because the boobies are big or because the guy says ‘shit' ten times. The themes are as juvenile as imaginable. However, you can do almost any subject matter you want if you present it in the right way. In ‘The Spirit,' we've beaten the tar out of him, we've melted a poor guy's head, we've got a guy in love with an animal, and this is all perfectly acceptable because of the way it is presented.”
This doesn't mean that Cooke doesn't enjoy darker, grittier comics. “I read and loved ‘Watchmen' and a lot of the books that came out because of it,” he said. “But I don't think anyone expected to see the entire industry turn around into that. I sometimes fear that in this industry a lot of people are eager to make the easiest choice. That is to say, killing a character or perhaps raping a character, or any other number of other things are very easy ways to get readers' attention or to create a stir, but does it serve the characters' needs ultimately? I think it's far more difficult to sit down these days and create a story that is compelling and exciting and emotionally rewarding that doesn't skirt these lines. That takes real work. Those are the kind of books we've tried to do. We draw lines that we won't cross, so in order to engage the reader we have to make sure that the story really works and is really involving. ‘New Frontier' was an attempt to say ‘See? We can still do this! Heroes can still be heroes!'”
With all the problems Cooke sees in the comics industry, from the so-called adult material, to the lack of fresh ideas, what would he change about the industry?
“I wonder if anything about it really needs to be changed right now,” he said. “I honestly have to wonder if it isn't naturally heading where it has to go. By that I mean, it's a very exciting time for comics now, just not in the direct market. If we look at manga sales and graphic novels in bookstores and the fact that ‘Fun Home' was named book of the year, not graphic novel of the year, but book of the year we see that comics have arrived.
“People are ready to enjoy and accept them and we're seeing growth everywhere, except in the direct market. So I'm not sure that a change needs to happen, as much as time is going to allow one aspect of the market to overtake another. At some point twenty-five years ago, the direct market made a strong decision about what they were doing and in one way it really saved mainstream comics by putting them in specialty stores and catering to the people who bought them. But let me ask you this, when we're all old and dead, who's going to be reading these things? Because, I don't see the kids here that are going to grow up to become the second generation or third or fourth.
“To be quite honest, I think that the direct market comics that we're all here talking about are on their way to extinction. I don't see any way around it. It doesn't matter how much money the Spider-Man movies make, if it doesn't bring anybody in to buy the comics. This theory's been floating for twenty years now that these movies will bring people back to comics - it doesn't work that way. Ask a twelve-year-old kid on the street, he probably thinks Spider-man was created for the movie, or for the cartoon. He doesn't know it's a comic book. Ultimately, the characters will endure in film and animation and other media but I really don't see how they're going to survive [in comic-form] past a certain point the way things are going.
“The monthly comic book is becoming less and less important. The collection is the key now. Thirty years ago, before they started collecting this material when books just came out once a month, it would be unthinkable that a book would ship late. It never happened. In the real world if you work at a magazine and that magazine ships an hour late, you're all fired. That's just the way the world works. It's no longer important in this industry whether books ship on time and that should tell you all you need to know about the emphasis being placed on the monthlies. Ultimately, I think we're going to see graphic novels, manga, superhero books, and everything else in album form in book chains and they'll have to fight it out with all the other product available, which is I think, the way it should be.”
Darwyn Cooke has won an Eisner Award every year, for the past three years, for his work at DC Comics on New Frontier, which he won twice for, and Solo. The only other people who could say that are Willingham for Fables and Grant Morrison for We3, Seven Soldiers, and All-Star Superman. Cooke has just announced that he'll be leaving The Spirit with issue twelve, and on his way out the door, he had these things to say.
My question is, despite the fact that his criticism isn't anything new or unspoken of, because he's been such a critically acclaimed creator, will the industry give any thought to his critiques about "adult" themes in comics or about the direction mainstream comics are going in the direct market? And do you agree or disagree with him about the lack of "fresh blood" movies, cartoons, and video games are bringing to comics (superhero comics, mainly)?
Not surprisingly, if you look at the numbers over the past few years, books like Amazing Spider-Man, Batman, Superman or X-Men don't really skyrocket in sales in the direct market in relation to their motion picture releases, which Cooke is correct about. He attributes this to these different mediums not attracting new people to the characters or stories, but I think it has more to do with the limited availability of comics books outside of the direct market anymore. If you could still go to the corner drug store and find a spinner rack of Marvel comics, you'd probably see more kids buying books like Amazing Spider-Man, or at least the Marvel Adventures line.
And I know, superhero comics sell outside of the direct market at bookstores and, yes, some grocery stores and drug stores, but nowhere near as well as they did decades ago. So, is it lack of interest in the main product, or lack of availability? Should comics compete with other books and manga in bookstores as collections instead of being specialized, or will comic book speciality stores and monthly ongoing comic books still be marketable in the next few decades?
I think his last statement is the hardest-hitting. To companies like Marvel and DC, monthly comic books have become less important, which is why books like All-Star Batman and Robin and The Ultimates can get away with being several months late and still sell in the top ten, and then continue to see thriving trade paperback sales; but are these exceptions, or the rule?
Personally, and I'll admit my opinion's a little skewed, I think monthly comic books will continue for a while until the companies behind them either bankrupt or decide that releasing them online is cheaper and easier and more accessible. But I don't think we'll ever see the day that Superman or Amazing Spider-Man only come out once every few months in volumes like manga. It might not be growing very much, but I think that right now, there's still a lot of appeal in going into a comic book store every week or month and getting your favorite books.