The Nightwing/Oracle romance

[Gothos]

I've been reading various online writeups of the aforesaid romance, but sometimes they don't get into particulars. Let me see if I have the approximate chronology right:

Batgirl and Robin first get regularly teamed in THE BATMAN FAMILY books of the 70s. The two of them flirt a little and that's about it.

NEW TEEN TITANS starts in 1980, and bonds Robin/Nightwing to Kory for several years until they break things off at the "non-wedding issue." As I recall Dick has no romantic relationship with Babs at all, being, as some fans term him, a "one-woman man."

Batgirl plans to put aside her costume in 1988's BATGIRL SPECIAL, and in the same year gets THE KILLING JOKE, which eventually leads to her assumption of the role of Oracle, Birds of Prey, et al.

Somewhere in this post-KILLING JOKE period (I think), is when Dick and Babs begin their romance proper. What I'm a little fuzzy about is in what books the romance took place. Is it mostly in the NIGHTWING title? By the time I was picking up BOP, the romance was over, and I didn't think it was a big feature of that title at any time, though I don't have all back issues.

Can anyone please straighten me out on this?

[Captain Jim]

Both Nightwing and Birds of Prey. Chuck Dixon was the original writer on both.

[Gothos]

So it sounds like in no reboot as yet were Dick and Babs an "item" prior to the events of Killing Joke...?

[Gothos]

Here's some notes I've been playing with on the origins of the Batgirl/Robin team...

The earliest mention of any possible romance between them seems to be DETECTIVE #369, in which Robin breaks off his partnership with Batman to join Batgirl. It's one of those typical DC plots where characters act weird but are later proven to be acting for the general good, but the only mention of romance is in Batman's head, since he tries to explain Robin's weird behavior as the result of a "crush." No romance between the two is suggested in the comics, though the TV Robin seems to have a little crush at times.

Next note to follow...

[Gothos]

Second note:

DETECTIVE #401 gives us the conclusion of a Batgirl-Robin teamup in which both heroes are working a case from parallel angles. A killer entombs Batgirl in a "Cask of Amontillado" set-up, Robin frees her, and both of them catch the killer. At the adventure's end, when Robin tries to get Batgirl to tell him how she got involved, she acts as if she's had her head turned a bit by the old "male-rescuer" bit, since she replies, "Maybe I'll tell you lots of things!"
In all likelihood, though, writer Denny O'Neil probably wasn't contemplating a romance as such. I think Babs was dating Jason Bard by then, though it would be a year or so more before Robin got a college-girlfriend, Terri Bergstrom. Probably the "lots of things" line was just the sort of stock line O'Neil wrote all the time for other girl-characters who got rescued in the nick by dashing male saviors, hinting that the male savior might get justly rewarded for his services. But in light of later developments it's interesting that it's Batgirl, not Robin, who seems to be making the first move.

[Gothos]

Third and final (for now) note:

BATMAN FAMILY #1 gives the first regular appearance of a Batgirl-Robin team, even if some issues had them working separately. The opening story by Elliot Maggin is a real odd duck about Satan giving superpowers to Benedict Arnold so that he can assail Batgirl and Robin, who are America's greatest defenders of democracy (????) More interesting, of course, is that Robin still seems far from crushing on Batgirl. Rather, he's imitating his mentor in constantly reminding Batgirl that crimefighting's too dangerous for a woman (even though she pretty much matches him in the feats department here). One could actually make a better case for Batgirl being smitten, for although she once refers to Robin as her "little brother" (justifying the "BAT-FAMILY" title, I guess), she adopts a very un-sibling-like solution to Robin's macho attitude by giving him a major liplock that sends him running for the hills. All I can say is, if Maggin really wanted to suggest that Batgirl thought of Robin as her figurative brother, Maggin had some odd ideas about what sisters did to their brothers.

Later issues of BAT-FAMILY do show Robin in full or partial crush-mode, though, so that's probably what justifies references to a "crush" as recently as GOTHAM KNIGHTS #43. Still, was it a crush that came about on its own, or-- did Batgirl make it happen...? Doo doo doo doo...

[pendragon]

It took Dixon about 7 yrs to build up this romance & took Devin Grayson 7 issues to destory it.

:evilangry

[Mister Intensity]

Third and final (for now) note:

BATMAN FAMILY #1 gives the first regular appearance of a Batgirl-Robin team, even if some issues had them working separately. The opening story by Elliot Maggin is a real odd duck about Satan giving superpowers to Benedict Arnold so that he can assail Batgirl and Robin, who are America's greatest defenders of democracy (????) More interesting, of course, is that Robin still seems far from crushing on Batgirl. Rather, he's imitating his mentor in constantly reminding Batgirl that crimefighting's too dangerous for a woman (even though she pretty much matches him in the feats department here). One could actually make a better case for Batgirl being smitten, for although she once refers to Robin as her "little brother" (justifying the "BAT-FAMILY" title, I guess), she adopts a very un-sibling-like solution to Robin's macho attitude by giving him a major liplock that sends him running for the hills. All I can say is, if Maggin really wanted to suggest that Batgirl thought of Robin as her figurative brother, Maggin had some odd ideas about what sisters did to their brothers.

Later issues of BAT-FAMILY do show Robin in full or partial crush-mode, though, so that's probably what justifies references to a "crush" as recently as GOTHAM KNIGHTS #43. Still, was it a crush that came about on its own, or-- did Batgirl make it happen...? Doo doo doo doo...

Wasn't this the same story where Barbara and Dick in their civilian identities commented in thought balloons on how attractive the other was? This was before they found out each other civilian identities. The seeds of a flirtatous relationship was planted at that point, which culminated in Robin's confession of love while Batgirl was supposedly asleeo.

Mister Intensity

[Captain Jim]

Gothos, thanks for the research. Very interesting.


It took Dixon about 7 yrs to build up this romance & took Devin Grayson 7 issues to destory it.

I'm not sure it's destroyed. I appreciated the fact that in the recent Nightwing Annual, even though the two ended up going their separate ways, each seemed to think that eventually they'd get together.

[sabongero]

Nightwing Annual #2 summarizes the whole Barb / Dick romance et al.

[pendragon]

I'm not sure it's destroyed. I appreciated the fact that in the recent Nightwing Annual, even though the two ended up going their separate ways, each seemed to think that eventually they'd get together.

I was talking about what happened in the actually issues of Nightwing.

How Devin Grayson destroyed what took Dixon years to build.

I realize that there is a strong possiblity that they will end up together.

[Captain Jim]

I was talking about what happened in the actually issues of Nightwing.

How Devin Grayson destroyed what took Dixon years to build.

No argument there. And not just that romance... the entire supporting cast, everything. It was sad.

[pendragon]

No argument there. And not just that romance... the entire supporting cast, everything. It was sad.

Very true.

I dropped the book when Grayson came on board.

Dixon really had Nightwing down to a "T"

Plus with McDaniels' art, you finally see him as the acrobat he's supposed to be.

And the supporting cast was so great!!!