What happened to the 1963 Annual, Alan Moore-Image please make this happen

[Excelsior]

I know this is an odd thread to create, but I hate cliffhangers with no ending. This thread is an unofficial offical petition to see this wonderful Watchmanesque series to finish as grandly as it started!

Who's with me??

http://www.comicon.com/moore/mystery_inc.jpg

PS. does anyone have a copy of the 1963 annual script? :D

[Sandy Hausler]

I know this is an odd thread to create, but I hate cliffhangers with no ending. This thread is an unofficial offical petition to see this wonderful Watchmanesque series to finish as grandly as it started!

Who's with me??

http://www.comicon.com/moore/mystery_inc.jpg

PS. does anyone have a copy of the 1963 annual script? :D

Never finished to the best of my knowledge.

Sandy Hausler

[king mob]

Won't ever happen. Mainly because Moore is done with superheroes, & the entire project ended in tears with various party's (within Image and within the creators themselves) falling out with each other.

The annual script was never finished though Moore has mentioned in the odd interview some of what would be in it. Last I read, the rights of some of the characters were in the hands of Steve Bissette and Rick Vietch, but this was a while ago.

[The Scribe]

I know this is an odd thread to create, but I hate cliffhangers with no ending. This thread is an unofficial offical petition to see this wonderful Watchmanesque series to finish as grandly as it started!

Who's with me??



I'm with you. I want this completed. Since Moore is finished with superheroes, I'm finished with him. :mad: :p


Erik Larsen, Keith Giffen, and Robert Kirkman can finish this just fine. ;)

[The Scribe]

Interviews (http://www.comicon.com/moore/7_interview_dashing.htm)

Links at the bottom with the rest of the cast. ;)

[MartinRedmond]

Annual was meant to have parts drawn by the Image guys. I think that says it all.

[DJ Sloofus]

Annual was meant to have parts drawn by the Image guys. I think that says it all.

Yeah, those guys were/are notoriously late. Though I don't think they had much to do with the annual never coming out.

[Kid Kyoto]

I don't really need it. 1963 was all about parody/homage of Marvel's silver age and it works fine without shoehorning in Shaft, Youngblood and the distant future year of 1993.

I would like to see it reprinted though.

[The Scribe]

Annual was meant to have parts drawn by the Image guys. I think that says it all.

Yeah, those guys were/are notoriously late. Though I don't think they had much to do with the annual never coming out.



There isn't a comic book company out there that doesn't have numerous late books and we have a few, I'll grant you, but it's not like it was years ago--and we don't have anything that compares with All-Star Batman or the Ultimate's or countless other titles from companies that you'd call "more reputable" than Image.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=183849

[dancj]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=183849

Interesting thread, but not really relevant. The above posts were slights towards certain big name Image artists back in the 90's who would start a series and then never finish it or be very late with the issues. Image now is practically a different company and most (or all for all I know) of those offending artists are gone.

[Ryan Day]

Won't ever happen. Mainly because Moore is done with superheroes

When did that happen? I know he was talking about writing more Top Ten, prior the the (most recent) fallout at DC.

[DJ Sloofus]

Let's face it; League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is basically a superhero series. Granted, it kicks ass and it's a little unconventional, but it's still basically a superhero series. Moore has stated that he'll be continuing to work on that. The Dark Dossier is due out any year now, followed by a 3 issue series of over-sized chapters. That should be out around the apocalypse or so.

[king mob]

When did that happen? I know he was talking about writing more Top Ten, prior the the (most recent) fallout at DC.

He's said he's bored with the genre several times over the years.

In regards to 1963 it was due to Image being hopeless, (due to several Image creators getting pissy with each other) Moore falling out with Steve Bissette, (which is really quite sad, but Moore had done this before with at least one other co-creator) & Moore just generally realising that superheroes are an incredibly restrictive genre to work in when comics can do so much more than pastiches, or whatever is defined as 'hot' this week.

Moore has finished with this part of his life, ok, he'll wrap up what outstanding projects he has but I wouldn't ever expect him to return to a genre that he's clearly bored with.

[DJ Sloofus]

Moore has finished with this part of his life, ok, he'll wrap up what outstanding projects he has but I wouldn't ever expect him to return to a genre that he's clearly bored with.

Well, he very well might never 'return,' but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he did. Remember, there was a long stretch of his life where he didn't do any superhero comics at all. I think the difference is that this time, he's saying he's retiring from comics almost entirely. Just tidying up a few loose commitments, then keeping LOEG going for an indeterminate amount of time.

He'll be back.

[david r]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but I read that Alan Moore planned for the Annual to have his 1963 characters (the FF, basically) meet the Image characters of 1993.

And the '63 characters would be SHOCKED at how violent and mean the modern Image characters were. Alan Moore was trying to show the glaring differences between the fun & bright days of the 60s Silver Age with the grim, dark characters of modern comics, 1993.

The Image founders saw this as an insult to their characters, and wouldn't allow this "meeting" to happen.

[king mob]

Well, he very well might never 'return,' but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he did. Remember, there was a long stretch of his life where he didn't do any superhero comics at all. I think the difference is that this time, he's saying he's retiring from comics almost entirely. Just tidying up a few loose commitments, then keeping LOEG going for an indeterminate amount of time.

He'll be back.


I wouldn't count on him coming back to comics, he's hinted in several interviews that after he's written his next novel that he may well do so. But the superhero genre is something he's clearly done with.

[king mob]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but I read that Alan Moore planned for the Annual to have his 1963 characters (the FF, basically) meet the Image characters of 1993.

And the '63 characters would be SHOCKED at how violent and mean the modern Image characters were. Alan Moore was trying to show the glaring differences between the fun & bright days of the 60s Silver Age with the grim, dark characters of modern comics, 1993.

This bit is right.

The Image founders saw this as an insult to their characters, and wouldn't allow this "meeting" to happen.


This isn't.

The Image lot were having one of their frequent disputes, and I think it was Jim Lee & Rob Liefeld in this case, which held up the annual (which was going to be a jam issue with each Image creator drawing their particular character) initially.

The delay was discussed in an interview with Steve Bissette in The Comics Journal, & Moore took Bissette's comments (which I can't remember, but once I remember which issue it was then that should help) as a slight to himself & promptly removed himself from finishing 1963. Things had been tense between Moore & Bisette due to problems with Taboo but this sadly seemed like Moore throwing one of his occassional wobblie.

I don't know the state of play between Moore & Bissette now. The rights are with Rick Veitch apparently so it could be completed but seeing as Moore no longer wants to be involved with anything he hasn't got complete ownership & control over.

In short it ended in a horrible mess with creators & friends arguing over what seemed to be minor things.

[90'sCartoonMan]

It's unfortunate there was such a disagreement over this thing. I only have two issues...I should really hunt down the others, it's a fun series.

[blackphoenix]

What a shame. I finally tracked down the final 1963 issue a few weeks ago(the one with Johnny Beyond and the Hulk-like guy). I wish they would do the frickin' annual--I need closure already. And since Liefeld is back at Image again(that'll last...), they can use the Youngblood guys again.

[DJ Sloofus]

One thing no one has mentioned (I think, anyway) is Moore's tenuous relationship with Rick Veitch at the time. Or was it Steve Bissette? Or maybe both. I remember reading an interview with (I believe) Veitch, who said that Moore sort of lost interest with the 1963 series, and wasn't even writing a lot of the text pieces. The "Affable Al" columns were great; I was a bit dismayed to learn Moore wasn't 100% behind them.

[king mob]

A bit of Googling at lunch found me some answers which will help explain the problem with the annual ever being finished.

First of all the Bissette interview in issue 185 of The Comics Journal. I haven't read it in years, but it's cheap so I've ordered it as it's a brilliant read. It also gives detail as to the problems mentioned.

I also found this letter (http://albert.nickerson.tripod.com/creatorsbillofrightsbist8.html) which explains not only the issues with the annual, but if you delve into it further you'll read about a much larger can of worms, much of it is sad & somewhat regretable if not avoidable.

The good news is that the annual might someday be finished (in some way)as part of a collected edition, though how & when that happens is unknown.

One other thing looking into this; it's reminded me how bloody good Bissette's Tyrant was & how that would be great to see completed as well.

[Erik Larsen]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but I read that Alan Moore planned for the Annual to have his 1963 characters (the FF, basically) meet the Image characters of 1993.

And the '63 characters would be SHOCKED at how violent and mean the modern Image characters were. Alan Moore was trying to show the glaring differences between the fun & bright days of the 60s Silver Age with the grim, dark characters of modern comics, 1993.

The Image founders saw this as an insult to their characters, and wouldn't allow this "meeting" to happen.

Wow.

Pulled that information straight out of your ass, I'm guessing. That is absolutely untrue.

We were all for the meeting.

[Excelsior]

Wow.

Pulled that information straight out of your ass, I'm guessing. That is absolutely untrue.

We were all for the meeting.

Thanks for setting things straight! I love the Dragon!! SHe-Dragon.. :D you are awesome!!!;)

[dancj]

I veguely remember hearing that Jim Lee had drawn a good chunk of it, but then the art got lost. I'm not sure if it's true though

[king mob]

I veguely remember hearing that Jim Lee had drawn a good chunk of it, but then the art got lost. I'm not sure if it's true though


From what I read he did nothing & Moore had only written 24 pages of the annual.

[Astrozac]

Wow.

Pulled that information straight out of your ass, I'm guessing. That is absolutely untrue.

We were all for the meeting.

Yeah. He had done Spawn with MacFarlane, and later did stuff with Lee and Liefelds' universes/characters. I'm sure he would have did projects with them after all of you all put the kibosh on his book...

I can't remember but its been about eight nine years since I picked up the whole series for like 3.00. One of the best bargains I've found. It was just a fun series yet taking a look at comparisons of modern vs old and some of the Marvel way of the 60's.
Even though its been 15 years and most of the connections have wore off, it'd still be a hoot to see and be able to read.

[Scarlet Skier]

Well, whatever happened, it's too bad that it wasn't completed.

Though, to be honest, it didn't bother or surprise me that the annual never came out.

In a twisted way, it's kind of a fitting commentary on the era, and the challenges that faced the industry.

Image went through growing pains. Some of those pains meant problems getting books to market. Too bad. I liked a lot of the early stuff, including 1963, Shaman's Tears and, especially, Trencher.

[Excelsior]

Well, whatever happened, it's too bad that it wasn't completed.

Though, to be honest, it didn't bother or surprise me that the annual never came out.

In a twisted way, it's kind of a fitting commentary on the era, and the challenges that faced the industry.

Image went through growing pains. Some of those pains meant problems getting books to market. Too bad. I liked a lot of the early stuff, including 1963, Shaman's Tears and, especially, Trencher.

Yeah, I thought the lead up with Shaft having traveled through time was awesome. Strangely, the fact the Annual never happened was the perfect allegory to the 90's and the rise of darker 21rst century comics. Much like, Kingdom come or Watchman.

The Authority
The Boys
The Ultimates
Millar&Hitch on the FF--are the future.

[Agentum]

I don't think 1963 was that good anyway.

But Supreme was worth to get an real ending, but Liefeld is an idiot so that was bound to be a disaster, he had problems paying for work done and so on, i think this added to Moores problems with those hot shot publishers of that time.
Also there Moore had written scripts for a couple of more issues, but as it is Liefeld has lost all the original art and so on, the reprints is made from photocopied comic books.

And the state between him and the artist(1963) is unchanged, they would probably never have anything to do with eatchother again.
This is said to be the result of the artist saying things in an interwiev(in a magazine) about Moore that Moore didn't like at all, it was all out on another forum and the artist told the story himself and was a bit sad that it had ended so fast witout him really being able to defend what he had said(at least that was his side of the story).

And about Moore quiting superherowriting, that may be the case but he has said in interwievs that he would probably like to write Miracleman if Gaiman ever gets the rights to that character.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

It's a shame they, or someone, doesn't collect it, even if it is incomplete.

Guess the rights are too hard to sort out or something.

(I mean why else would you have an Alan Moore property and not print it?)

[Agentum]

Well it's a shame not to get i artist for the scrips also, people are so full of them self so they don't know good comics from their own latest war or crisis or some other stupid series.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Well it's a shame not to get i artist for the scrips also, people are so full of them self so they don't know good comics from their own latest war or crisis or some other stupid series.

Que?




.

[Agentum]

They were still scripts to use left in both the 1963 and Supreme cases.

But apparently they was not important at the time, they needed to get out the latest Youngblood or something i guess.

I'm sarcastic........sorry

[king mob]

It's a shame they, or someone, doesn't collect it, even if it is incomplete.

Guess the rights are too hard to sort out or something.

(I mean why else would you have an Alan Moore property and not print it?)

Have a shufty at that Steve Bissette letter I linked to & all will be explained.

[BizarroBeachHead]

It would be cool if it were collected, but if you are really serious about reading it: eBay. Some time ago I got all six issues for 5 bucks. Pretty sweet.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Have a shufty at that Steve Bissette letter I linked to & all will be explained.

Yeah I did. He's obviously never heard of brevity.

Still, what's the point of denying reprints?

Even if he hates everyone involved now it'd still put a bit of money in the kitty.

[king mob]

Yeah I did. He's obviously never heard of brevity.

Still, what's the point of denying reprints?

Even if he hates everyone involved now it'd still put a bit of money in the kitty.

Bissette wouldn't dent reprints, the problem is that publishers proposing a trade edition want it with the annual completed & although that might happen somehow, (though having read the full story behind this, I'd be hard pushed to work out how) it isn't very likely.

[Billy Parker]

I don't like how Moore takes shots at Stan Lee and implies he's a better writer than Stan when he's not.

[king mob]

I don't like how Moore takes shots at Stan Lee and implies he's a better writer than Stan when he's not.


Oh stroll on.

[Froggy]

Wow.

Pulled that information straight out of your ass, I'm guessing. That is absolutely untrue.

We were all for the meeting. a bit oftopic, but hey, erik larsen lives in the same state I live :O


shweeeeeeeeeeeet
but anyways it would've been cool to see the annual but it wont happen i think

[antifascist]

Even though it will not give you closure, some of the characters from 1963 did appear in an issue of Shawdowhawk. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000P08NZY/sr=1-5/qid=1188804324/ref=dp_image_0/002-1900652-0900027?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books&qid=1188804324&sr=1-5 I don't recall it being very good, but at least it's something besides the 1963 mini in and of itself.

[The Scribe]

a bit oftopic, but hey, erik larsen lives in the same state I live :O


shweeeeeeeeeeeet
but anyways it would've been cool to see the annual but it wont happen i think

I like Savage Dragon. ;)

Your username makes me want to sing froggy went a courtin'.

Frog went a courtin' and he did ride, uh-huh
Frog went a courtin' and he did ride, uh-huh
Frog went a courtin' and he did ride
With a sword and a pistol by his side, uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh....

Here are the lyrics. (http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/frog.htm)


http://www.mazdanow.com/temp/laughing-smiley-007.gif

[Pil]

Even though it will not give you closure, some of the characters from 1963 did appear in an issue of Shawdowhawk. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000P08NZY/sr=1-5/qid=1188804324/ref=dp_image_0/002-1900652-0900027?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books&qid=1188804324&sr=1-5 I don't recall it being very good, but at least it's something besides the 1963 mini in and of itself.

They also appeared in Big Bang Comics #35. Haven't read it so I don't know if it's worth picking up.

[antifascist]

They also appeared in Big Bang Comics #35. Haven't read it so I don't know if it's worth picking up.

I heard about this too. Wasn't it the Tomorrow Syndicate that showed up?

[Froggy]

I like Savage Dragon. ;)

Your username makes me want to sing froggy went a courtin'.

Frog went a courtin' and he did ride, uh-huh
Frog went a courtin' and he did ride, uh-huh
Frog went a courtin' and he did ride
With a sword and a pistol by his side, uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh....

Here are the lyrics. (http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/frog.htm)


http://www.mazdanow.com/temp/laughing-smiley-007.gif
my coach use to sing that.....lmao

and i'm a big savage dragon fan too

[Jamie]

They also appeared in Big Bang Comics #35. Haven't read it so I don't know if it's worth picking up.

I own it, but I can't recall much from it. Make of that what you will, I suppose.

Maybe I'll reread it tonight when I get home.

[Jamie]

I own it, but I can't recall much from it. Make of that what you will, I suppose.

Maybe I'll reread it tonight when I get home.

I tried to read it this morning and made it about two pages in before I put it down, because I suddenly remembered the storyline and it is, quite frankly, not very good.

In essence, a Big Bang character (Silverboy, I think?) is wooed by several different super teams from both 1963 and the Big Bang. They fight, then realize the error of their ways. I suppose they were trying for the same sort of nostalgia-retro feel 1963 captured, but it really doesn't work -- not least of all because the story is set up like a bad joke: a team shows up, starts trying to recruit Silverboy, "Not so fast!" -- another team shows up, tries to win him over, etc. It captures the formulaic feel of old stories without any of the gosh-wow inventive fun that the original 1963 miniseries had. Another way of looking at it is that 1963 riffs on the foundations of the Marvel Comics revolution, while this comic riffs on the lowest common denominator of DC's Superboy & the Legion of Super Heroes stories.

The one redeeming feature to this story is that it's short. I believe the other stories are all Big Bang-centric, but I didn't get to them.