"The difference between 52 and Countdown is..."

[Paul Dee]

A lot of people are remarking that they gave 52's immediate slowness more of a chance because it needed to set up the characters individual stories whereas Countdown is acting as a spine to the current DCU and, so presumably, everything is already pretty much in place. Having pretty much caught up to Countdown now I have to ask, am I the only person reading it in a similar way to 52? In that the main stories are that of Jason Todd/Donna Troy, Jimmy Olsen, Mary Marvel and perhaps now Holly Robinson, Monarch and Forerunner with the added bonus of the rest of the stories tieing in with the current DC storylines (the Flash Rogues, the whole Monitor stuff, the Karate Kid Lighting Saga stuff etc)?


That's the way I read it anyway. Jason Todd doesn't have his story currently told anywhere else, nor does Jimmy Olsen or Mary Marvel, in the same way that The Question, Batwoman, Animal Man, or Booster Gold didn't. I just don't see how it's that dissimilar from 52, give or take the fact that it's running along at a slightly slower pace because it's trying to deal with the whole of the current DCU (which, to be fair, it's not doing the best job of).

I'm still intrigued and enthused about it.

[Captain Jim]

Jimmy's story is being told in Action Comics.

[Sean Walsh]

...for me, the difference is the art.

I enjoyed much of the art in 52 - Joe Bennett, Pat Olliffe & Drew Geraci, Chris Batista, Darick Robertson...

In Countdown........Jim Calafiore's doing good stuff (best art of his career, IMHO) but the rest is very MEH.

But I hear Carlin's bringing in more high profile artists to bulk up sales, so hopefully it'll get better.

[Phoney Bone]

52 was an aftermath of Act II in the "Identity/Infinite/Final Crisis" story and Countdown in the lead-in to Act III.

[Kid Kyoto]

52 was self-contained, Countdown requres you read half of DCs line.

[Paul Dee]

52 was self-contained, Countdown requres you read half of DCs line.


Not really though; I only pick up a hand ful of DC books each week and am getting on with Countdown well enough. As long as you have a vague knowledge of what's going on (not even that - you could somehow have been completely unaware of Bart's death and Countdown still filled you in) you can understand Countdown well enough.

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

It's not nearly as good.

Having different writers take on each issue isnt working as well as 4 writers using one unified voice kinda thing 52 had.

And that art is just plain bad too.

52's wasnt amazing, but it didnt suck either. At worst it was plain.

[Captain Jim]

52 was self-contained, Countdown requres you read half of DCs line.

See, that's a common misconception. I don't think that Countdown requires you to read anything else. Now, granted, it does connect to other stories in other books. And if something catches your fancy, you may want to pick up some other titles to read more about it. (For instance, the early Rogues segments made me want to pick up the entire final arc of Bart's book.) But there's no reason you *have* to. That's the reason you see some scenes repeated in this book that also appear elsewhere (which others have complained about). So you can understand everything that's necessary within the confines of this single title.

[Babylon23]

I haven't read Lightning Saga, Amazons Attack or the Flash and I'm having no problem following the story in Countdown. I can understand how it might be daunting to some, but it hasn't bothered me in the slightest.

[paulski]

See, that's a common misconception. I don't think that Countdown requires you to read anything else.
It really doesn't. The stories being told in Countdown - for Jimmy Olsen, Trickster & Piper, Mary Marvel, et al - are completely self-contained. The fact that some of these stories have marginal tie-ins to the Amazons Attacks of this world is pretty irrelevant.

Part of the problem, however, would be that there would be too many obscure or 3rd tier characters that readers just wouldn't be familiar with. Or care about. It's part of the reason I'll be dropping it some time this month. The crap art is the other. :(

[trickster]

You must be kidding when you say you don't have to read other books. Karate Kid appears in Countdown as prisoner, IIRC. Why is he there? Go read JLA. The search for Ray Palmer is not exactly self contained either. Or the Amazons attack segments.

[Vulgar]

I think for some people it just comes down to being burned out on a weekly book. 52 was great and all for some people, students for example, an extra 2.50 a week can really add up quickly.

[Captain Jim]

You must be kidding when you say you don't have to read other books. Karate Kid appears in Countdown as prisoner, IIRC. Why is he there? Go read JLA. The search for Ray Palmer is not exactly self contained either. Or the Amazons attack segments.

Not at all. You don't need to be aware of the larger storylines to follow the parts that happen in Countdown.

[botch]

52 was an aftermath of Act II in the "Identity/Infinite/Final Crisis" story and Countdown in the lead-in to Act III.

I always thought of the three act structure for Infinite crisis.

Identity Crisis - Act 1
Countdown to Infinite Crisis - Act 2
Infinite Crisis - Act 3

[thehod]

Having different writers take on each issue isnt working as well as 4 writers using one unified voice kinda thing 52 had.

This is the main issue for me. There was a definite feel of a continuing story through 52 for me. A unified voice.

Countdown seems to be just a number of various stories, with little consistancy between them. Hopefully they'll come together in the fullness of time.

[Crimson]

What I don't like Countdown is that everything seems rushed... storylines appear to be moving forward because they have to, not because of any natural progression.

They just jump from point to point. With 52 issues they have more then enough time to make this stuff flow.

52 was amazing, even the apparently slow was great. Amazing series, I'm glad I picked the whole run up

[Captain Jim]

I'm not having any problem with the writing. Paul Dini is supplying detailed plots for everything, so I can't really see any problem with using different persons to flesh out the scripts. (And Giffen is now back to doing layouts for everything.)

[Ian J.N.]

The difference between 52 and Countdown is...

...52 featured C-list characters and was self-contained. Countdown features C-list characters and is attempting to be the spine of the DC Universe. That's a baaad mix. Sure, there's a good Jimmy Olsen story to be told, but who in their right mind would make him the representative character of DC? Y'see, right now Marvel is all about the Hulk--correction: the Hulk SMASHING--and that's a smidge more enticing.

...52, as a top-ten selling book, could have conceivably been a flagship title for DC. Countdown, with its lukewarm reception, perhaps, shouldn't be.

...52 asked us to commit to a year-long story. Countdown is asking us to commit to a year-long story after having commited to a year-long story, AND the crossover event it's leading up to, AND a myriad of tie-in projects. To be clear, no, you're not obligated to buy the other stories, but, like a friend asking to borrow an obscene amount of money, it's RUDE and damaging to goodwill. I miss the old philosophy of 'have them beg for more.'

EDIT: The goal, actually, is to hit the consumers just right. Get the maximum amount of money from readers without them feeling cheated or like they're missing out. If it's truly okay to overproduce tie-ins (story-autonomous or otherwise), well, take the argument to the extreme: Why not slap a Countdown label on EVERY DC title?

...52 was pitched to us as a year where the big name heroes (Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) were out of commission. That's a premise for a story. Countdown was pitched as being the spine of the DCU. That's a premise for DC marketing. It's metatextual. Editor-speak.

...52 was written by DC's "superband." The superband, it seems, has little to do with Countdown. Brave and the Bold, Checkmate, Morrison's Batman, the Sinestro Corps event Johns is orchestrating in the GL titles... All seem to be operating in their own spheres, separate from Countdown and DC editorial (not that that's a bad thing).

...52 was better structured, giving (on average) more room each issue for a storyline to breathe. Countdown, I think, is trying to cram in too much, with four, five storylines addressed each issue, plus a backup feature.

...52 was about rebuilding, and building up, the DCU after the big Crisis on Infinite Earths redux. Countdown is about tearing down the DCU in preparation for the Crisis on Infinite Earths redux redux.

...52 wasn't compared to 52. Countdown is, which comes with the expectation that it raise the bar (or at least meet it).

[botch]

52 is spelt with numbers.

Countdown is spelt with Letters.

Tom Cruise is crazy.

[NMoline]

The main difference was the 52 took place over 52 weeks in a time that was completely separate from the rest of the DCU. Countdown takes place within DCU time and is therefore bogged down by not moving any faster than books that come out once every two weeks or longer while it is coming out weekly.

[Paul Dee]

For what it's worth I just want to say that regardless of this thread's title all I meant when I started it was wondering if anyone else was, like me, reading it in the same way as 52 - ie the stories of a bunch of seperate DC characters being used to get the DCU from point A to point B (the multiverse being re-established and everything else/Final Crisis)?