batman #666 thread (Spoilers!) [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

jerrymcl89

07-25-2007, 06:32 PM

I picked up #666 and while I got the idea, I wasn't certain if this was going to be the way Batman is from now on. Can someone please explain this to me? Is this just a few issues and back to the Bruce Wayne Batman?

Thanks.

This issue was a flash-forward to 15 or so years later (or at least a possible 15 or so years later) in which most of the current bat-characters appear to be dead (and Bruce, in particular, definitely is dead), and Damian has become Batman. The next arc returns to the present, with Bruce as Batman. Whether Morrison plans to explore this future some more down the road remains to be seen. It certainly left some questions unanswered.

drwho

07-25-2007, 06:34 PM

Batman's son is the new Batman in this issue.

So is that whole story some alternate universe story and there is no real son in the current dc?

Joe Rice

07-25-2007, 06:42 PM

So is that whole story some alternate universe story and there is no real son in the current dc?

No, this is not the case. This issue flashed forward to the future.

Captain Jim

07-25-2007, 06:42 PM

So is that whole story some alternate universe story and there is no real son in the current dc?

I wish that were so, but I doubt it. ;)

Captain Jim

07-25-2007, 06:43 PM

No, this is not the case. This issue flashed forward to the future.

Well, one possible future, anyway.

Joe Rice

07-25-2007, 06:45 PM

Well, one possible future, anyway.

A future as real as the "present" where there is a Batman. It's a story.

Captain Jim

07-25-2007, 07:43 PM

A future as real as the "present" where there is a Batman. It's a story.

Well, okay, I hear you. What I meant (as I'm sure you know) is that it's unlikely that future continuity will be bound by it.

vazel

07-25-2007, 10:04 PM

Ah darnit, I was afraid this was just a one issue thing. I really liked it, would've loved to see an entire arc on this.

Cayman

07-25-2007, 10:47 PM

Cool issue. Batman of the future's been done quite a bit but it worked quite well here.

stealthwise

07-25-2007, 11:58 PM

The issue felt kind of... rushed, and I had to re-read it just to catch what the hell was going on.

It wasn't bad, but it would have been nice to see the futuristic world fleshed out a little bit more, and the finish lacked a bit of punch. And is this the art that Morrison's been putting up with throughout his run? Kubert seems to really favour dynamic poses over actual storytelling with his art.

ultramandingo

07-26-2007, 12:12 AM

And is this the art that Morrison's been putting up with throughout his run? Kubert seems to really favour dynamic poses over actual storytelling with his art.

........... yeah , this issue needed Kevin O'Neill

Joe Rice

07-26-2007, 05:00 AM

I'm certain, knowing Morrison's work, that while we may not have several issues set in this future, it WILL play a part in the rest of his arc.

Sean Whitmore

07-26-2007, 05:37 AM

I'm certain, knowing Morrison's work, that while we may not have several issues set in this future, it WILL play a part in the rest of his arc.

If nothing else, I'm sure we're gonna see the chance Bruce had to kill the demonic Batman that was mentioned this issue.

SEAN

flapjaxx

07-26-2007, 06:45 AM

A future as real as the "present" where there is a Batman. It's a story.

Really?? I thought that, while there is no Batman in the present, this issue has shown us that there WILL be a Batman in the real future and this is what he will be like.

Seriously, though, this was an awfully interesting issue, but I don't see how we could ever get the "pay off" of knowing who Damien's foe was (they seemed to know each other; was it Tim gone bad?). Plus the next issue has a guest artist, so I assume we're going to have to wait again to see Batman track down the "third" alternate-Batman type villain, the "demon" Batman. If I'm even remembering that right. Why is the scheduling of this book so horrible? Coupled with flipping between artists and storylines it makes it impossible to form a coherent track of what Morrison's trying to do with the book. It's like he's got one broad storyline going with Kubert, then in between we get filler that connects with nothing. And it has to be Kubert's fault the book is late, because Morrison has had time to do that all-text Joker issue. I really like this book when it's Morrison/Kubert, though, but it's so hard to get a feel for what they're doing. Especially when this issue (cool as it is), is a slice from a distant future. Kubert used to be able to do at least 10 issues a year when he was at Marvel. What happened? Did some wizard cast a spell in 2001 or so that said, "All artists, no matter how reliable or hardworking previously, shall now be able to complete no more than FIVE issues per year!"?

Paul Dee

07-26-2007, 10:04 AM

This was certainly an interesting issue but I think I read it too fast and my appreciation of it suffered as a result. I wonder how 'definite' a future that was; I sort of wish that had been made clearer. The story seemed to end too quickly as well - I really suspect it was the first of a two-part story but because of Kubert's deadline-issues we're rushing into the Club of Geroes arc (which I am so excited about).

Same issues as ever with the art for me - did anyone else just think "I waited 2 months for this?. Especially after looking at Jim Lee's lush art in the new ASBAR (especially his depiction of James Gordon and Barbara) it's apparent how much Andy Kubert is just a poor man's Jim Lee with a high-profile surname. There was one panel of the future Damian without the cowl which looked like a really poor imitation of a Jim Lee piece.

But yeah, I think the story needs a more detailed read from me

rerun

07-26-2007, 10:17 AM

It's no "definite" future- is anything in comics definite? Whether it be death, time travel, or whatever, it seems everything is just there for the time being.

I really enjoyed it and think the other "Batman" was Jason. I don't see Tim going "dark side of the force" but that'd be a cool twist to see how he gets there. Maybe with all the Conner stuff, his real dad and then Bruce's death- maybe.

pendragon

07-26-2007, 11:14 AM

Just read that Tony Daniels is taking over on the art with issue # 670

Paul Dee

07-26-2007, 11:41 AM

Just read that Tony Daniels is taking over on the art with issue # 670

Yeah an arc involving Ra's Al Ghul as well. I take it that this was referenced in that first Countdown teaser picture with the chainmail Batman and sword. I think Didio mentioned that it was a reference to the return of one of Batman's most dangerous foes, something like that anyway. There'll be more Damien too.

pendragon

07-26-2007, 11:58 AM

I like Ra's
Personally can't wait for him to come back.

Just not a Morrison fan at all.

ChairthrowerLad

07-26-2007, 12:11 PM

The issue felt kind of... rushed, and I had to re-read it just to catch what the hell was going on.

As HUGE of a fan as I am of Morrison he does tend to do that sometimes.

Just not a Morrison fan at all.

D'frent strokes for d'frent folks, but that makes me sad.

I loved this issue. The thing, though, about Morrison is that he really is the smartest man in comics. He has a brilliant imagination and a keen grasp of where he wants a story to go, but sometimes (especially at the end of a arc) it all just gets in the way of story telling.

Having said that, his run on JLA pretty damn incredible (and dont even get me started on Animalman). Metzler ain't got nothing on Morrison.

drwho

07-26-2007, 12:13 PM

Is Morrison doing future stories common for him? I also recall him doing that alternate future story in the X-Men. Is that his gimmick, or something?

stamen

07-26-2007, 12:29 PM

I like Morrison a lot, but I have to go on record as hating this issue. It's not what I buy the comic for... I'll be bowing out of the rest of the arc.

Jack Zodiac

07-26-2007, 01:25 PM

Is Morrison doing future stories common for him? I also recall him doing that alternate future story in the X-Men. Is that his gimmick, or something?

Have you read much Morrison? He doesn't have a gimmick, unless "great writing" is a gimmick now.

This was a special issue. Not a whole lot of other comics have made it to issue 666, so he made a big deal of it with an "imaginary story (but aren't they all?)" about Batman's son, Damian, in a near-Apocalyptic future Gotham. Next month, Busiek's doing the same thing with Superman #666 by sending Superman and the Justice League to Hell. This isn't the status quo of the book, nor will it be likey to become so eventually, it was just a story free of continuity and junk, like they used to tell all the time. Like Joe said, though, Morrison doesn't do anything just for !@#$s and giggles, so some of what we saw in this issue will be important to his future storylines, especially since we've only seen two of the "three ghosts of Batman" in the "Black Casebook" arc, and this devil-Batman that Damian fought will likely appear soon.

While I really want to see Morrison's run on Batman pick up the pace with his multiple storylines, as an issue-break, a stand-alone, this book was incredible. Andy's art was much better than it's been lately, and th design for Damian's costume was amazing. The whole future Gotham setting was amazing, and that cover was great. I usually hate centerpiece comic covers, but there was so much else to it than Batman standing in the middle of the cover.

And the "face first" storytelling was fast and merciless. Grant didn't waste time breaking down the fifteen years between his last story and this issue, he played it out wonderfully across all twenty-two pages, ending with the big reveal about Damian Wayne and his career as Batman. Babs as chief of police, or commish maybe, still in her wheelchair barking orders like her old man, was perfect. The new face of the Arkham crowd was interesting, especially the allusions to current characters. I got a sense of Two-Face out of that cyborg, and a little Penguin out of The Flamingo. The whole scene in the Bethlehem Hotel was just pure awesome. Great action with dynamic art by Kubert.

And using Yeats for the framework of the entire issue was perfectly Morrison. What an incredible comic.

Cayman

07-26-2007, 01:44 PM

Didn't Morrison say he accepted the Batman assignment because he wanted to work with Kubert? I wonder if the change in artist means that Morrison's run is about up?

infoghost

07-26-2007, 02:13 PM

Count me in with those who didn't like it. It seemed like a Big Gimmick to me (Issue 666!!) and the story was just stupid, imho.

Not a Morrison hater either, but I am not really digging his first arc much.

Sean Whitmore

07-26-2007, 02:29 PM

I'm actually surprised at the overall reaction to this issue. I think it may have been my favorite since the beginning of the arc.

SEAN

Brack360

07-26-2007, 03:25 PM

I thought this was a great issue and a nice break from the ongoing arc. I was confused at first but understood it more when I read the issue a second time. Morrison has a unique and refreshing take on Batman.

4thHorseman

07-26-2007, 05:07 PM

I'm a little curious as to see who this other Batman was. I'm sure we'll see who he is in the upcoming finish of the storyline, but I hate how Morrison is doing all these storylines between the major one. If he can't find out a way to tie them all together, I may be a little upset that I had to wait so long to finish this story.

stealthwise

07-26-2007, 05:12 PM

And using Yeats for the framework of the entire issue was perfectly Morrison. What an incredible comic.

Actually, I found that part to be really cliched and boring. That poem, specifically those lines, has been so overquoted that it blows my mind how anyone can read it anymore without gagging.

Mia

07-26-2007, 05:35 PM

Seriously, though, this was an awfully interesting issue, but I don't see how we could ever get the "pay off" of knowing who Damien's foe was (they seemed to know each other; was it Tim gone bad?).

After reading this story I thought to myself. They can't kill off Damien, there's just too much potential to play with here. But then again this is DC.
One thing I really did love though was how the character had problems and a dark side yet still tried to do the right thing. I did not like the suggestion that child Damien caused his fathers death.

I really enjoyed it and think the other "Batman" was Jason. I don't see Tim going "dark side of the force" but that'd be a cool twist to see how he gets there. Maybe with all the Conner stuff, his real dad and then Bruce's death- maybe.

Interesting premise. Especially if you've see Batman Beyond.

SemiNerd

07-26-2007, 06:05 PM

thy basically just tossed this out here to see if the fans would be receptive to a new batman universe that is different, but still more similar to the current Batman than say, batman beyond is

If it gets enough positive resonance they may push this angle further in the future

Captain Jim

07-26-2007, 10:06 PM

I like Morrison a lot, but I have to go on record as hating this issue. It's not what I buy the comic for... I'll be bowing out of the rest of the arc.

If you're talking about this future timeline, uh, there isn't any more. At least for the time being.

Captain Jim

07-26-2007, 10:12 PM

For what it's worth, I get the impression that Kubert is off this book now. As mentioned earlier, Tony Daniels is the new artist.

Violently Apathetic

07-26-2007, 10:46 PM

After reading this story I thought to myself. They can't kill off Damien, there's just too much potential to play with here. But then again this is DC.

I had pretty much the exact same thought process. Man, has DC ever created a cynical group of fans.

Anyway, I thought this issue was pretty strong and a nice change of pace. I'm hoping they do more with the character in the future. Fun stuff.

rerun

07-27-2007, 09:24 AM

I'm up for a limited run (or even ongoing) looking at Damien as Batman. Whether Elseworlds, different Earth, whatever- I really liked the story and the evolution of Gotham City- new criminals, major problems going on in the city/world.

Definitely one of the better issues I've read of Batman in the last 5 years.

Mia

07-27-2007, 10:51 AM

I agree. Far more interesting and original that Terry McGuiness. Who really struck me being more Dick Grayson playing Batman than anything else.

brundlefly

07-27-2007, 11:31 AM

Actually, I found that part to be really cliched and boring. That poem, specifically those lines, has been so overquoted that it blows my mind how anyone can read it anymore without gagging.

Agreed; I've read countless comics over the years that have quoted "The Second Coming" in attempts to add gravity or a sense of foreboding to their stories. It's very played-out, nothing clever or innovative at all about Grant using it here; I would have expected something different if he was going to start dropping literary references and such. But putting that aside, I liked this issue as an "Elseworlds future" one-off, particularly the imaginative rogues gallery for Damian's Batman and Barbara as the Gotham Chief of Police, plus Kubert's art and character designs were outstanding. I'm a big Ra's al Ghul fan, so I'm looking forward to seeing how Grant handles him soon (hopefully better than Talia, who seemed too much the cardboard-cutout femme fatale in the first arc). And the 3-part "Club of Heroes" arc that starts next issue looks pretty interesting, too. Grant's Bat-run has been a little uneven up to this point, but there is enough potential in the uncoming storyarcs that I will be sticking with the book to see where this all goes.

Mia

07-27-2007, 02:22 PM

Actually, I found that part to be really cliched and boring. That poem, specifically those lines, has been so overquoted that it blows my mind how anyone can read it anymore without gagging.

Why would you want to ‘gag’? Not everyone is familiar with the poet or his works. Just because it’s old and familiar to you does not it applicable to the rest of the world.

stealthwise

07-27-2007, 02:26 PM

Why would you want to ‘gag’? Not everyone is familiar with the poet or his works. Just because it’s old and familiar to you does not it applicable to the rest of the world.

Wow, you so missed the point I was making. As brundlefly notes above, that poem is so often used and referred to within literary works and comic books that it's become a cliche. Which means it has no impact or meaning anymore, at least to me, and from the sounds of it, to at least a few other people. My comment was part of my critique of the issue overall, not an attack on those who aren't well-read.

sabongero

07-28-2007, 12:51 AM

Who was the other Batman that Damian killed by the way ? Is that supposed to be Tim Drake ?

And boy oh boy, Alfred looked cute in this rendition.

CapnSpandex

07-28-2007, 12:57 AM

Jack Zodiac

07-28-2007, 09:55 AM

Who was the other Batman that Damian killed by the way ? Is that supposed to be Tim Drake ?

It's some character yet to be introduced in the "Black Casebook" story arc. He's most likely the third Ghost of Batman.

I can't stand Morrison's Batman, due largely to Morrison's tendency to allow his own snotty pseudo-intellectual writing style to overshadow the actual characters and events that his stories are meant to depict.

Would you care to point out at what points in "Batman and Son," and "The Black Casebook" he overshadow's Batman's character with his "snotty pseudo-intellectual writing?" Far be it from me to belittle another person's opinion, but I've actually found his run on Batman to be him most grounded, unintellectual work. Fun, and interesting as hell, but very basic, traditional comic book superhero writing.

Mia

07-28-2007, 11:32 AM

I can't stand Morrison's Batman, due largely to Morrison's tendency to allow his own snotty pseudo-intellectual writing style to overshadow the actual characters and events that his stories are meant to depict. This issue, luckily, he is not depicting Bruce Wayne as Batman, so I can buy that Batman is quoting poetry, as pretentious and annoying as it actually was to read. It's an okay issue sandwiched in the middle of a run on Batman that I feel is absolutely awful. If you want good Batman stories, read Detective. Dini's Batman outclasses this tripe by nine miles.

Normally I would agree with you, I ended up dropping his NXM because I thought that it was nothing but pretentious dreck. But I honestly don't find his Batman to be 'pseudo-intellectual' in the slightest. I actually find it to be the most realistic, layered and earthy Batman I've read since Rucka left 'Tec.

bushboy

07-28-2007, 11:35 AM

I thought the evil Batman was the Antichrist?

Sean Whitmore

07-28-2007, 04:30 PM

Would you care to point out at what points in "Batman and Son," and "The Black Casebook" he overshadow's Batman's character with his "snotty pseudo-intellectual writing?"

Of course not. That would be too close to an actual critique.

SEAN

shaxper

07-29-2007, 09:55 AM

I really liked this issuie it was probaly my favorite issue of morrisons run so far. I also was wondering what the evil batman meant by being sons in a way maybe the evil batman was tim or maybe even jason what do you think.

I believe the "father" they share is supposed to be Satan. Both have sold their souls, unless Damien was making a figure of speech when he admitted this. Even Jason Todd isn't F-ed up enough to become some devil worshipping Batman double. It definitely isn't Tim for the same reason.

I still hate that Morrison gave Batman a son, but I have to admit that this was the first issue of Morrison's run that I actually liked. Still, I want to see Damien gone by the end of this run. Kill him off without the possible Lazarus Pit option. Let Batman mourn for a month or two and then move on.

boy oh boy, Alfred looked cute in this rendition.

I was of the impression that Alfred may have been his computer and not the cat.

Baytor

07-29-2007, 04:27 PM

I can't stand Morrison's Batman, due largely to Morrison's tendency to allow his own snotty pseudo-intellectual writing style to overshadow the actual characters and events that his stories are meant to depict. This issue, luckily, he is not depicting Bruce Wayne as Batman, so I can buy that Batman is quoting poetry, as pretentious and annoying as it actually was to read. It's an okay issue sandwiched in the middle of a run on Batman that I feel is absolutely awful. If you want good Batman stories, read Detective. Dini's Batman outclasses this tripe by nine miles.

I completely agree! Detective Comics has been excellent, but I feel Morrison's Batman is pretentious garbage.

Violently Apathetic

07-29-2007, 04:35 PM

I was of the impression that Alfred may have been his computer and not the cat.

I don't think he'd offer his computer 'kitty munch' but then he is a little unhinged, so who knows?

Mia

07-29-2007, 05:42 PM

I believe the "father" they share is supposed to be Satan. Both have sold their souls, unless Damien was making a figure of speech when he admitted this. Even Jason Todd isn't F-ed up enough to become some devil worshipping Batman double. It definitely isn't Tim for the same reason.

Maybe now he isn't but who knows about the future? Besides (if this is Tim) there are other stories that show an evil and bent Tim in the future.

shaxper

07-30-2007, 01:29 AM

I don't think he'd offer his computer 'kitty munch' but then he is a little unhinged, so who knows?

No, no no. He addresses "Alfred" and then offers the kitty munchies ;)

The Shadow

07-31-2007, 10:59 PM

For what it's worth, I get the impression that Kubert is off this book now. As mentioned earlier, Tony Daniels is the new artist.

Does Daniels start with 667 or is there a fill in or two?

Any word on Kubert's next bi-monthly project?

And I thought part of the deal was Morrison wanted to work with Kubert... is he staying if Kubert goes?

Captain Jim

08-01-2007, 07:20 AM

The next arc (#667-669) is written by Morrison and drawn by J.H. Williams III. I'm not sure it's proper to call it a fill-in though, since it's written by Morrison and Williams has kind of been alternating with Kubert lately. Daniels starts in #670 (October). Morrison doesn't appear to be leaving anytime soon. I have no idea where Kubert goes from here.

Paul Dee

08-01-2007, 07:35 AM

it's written by Morrison and Williams has kind of been alternating with Kubert lately.

What do you mean by this? Alternating in what way?

Captain Jim

08-01-2007, 07:38 AM

What do you mean by this? Alternating in what way?

It seems like we've been getting a Kubert arc followed by a Williams arc, etc.

Paul Dee

08-01-2007, 07:47 AM

Ah right, I get you. Just when you said 'alternating' it made me think of them going back and forth somehow.

Choppa

08-05-2007, 04:14 PM

I finally read this and didn't really like it. I'm sure some piece of this will somehow fit into Morrison's grand scheme, but the way the book jumps from the unresolved end of #665 and now will start a new arc in #667, makes this story way too short and undeveloped. I'm also pretty tired of the future Batman stories. Hasn't that already been done to death? For such a landmark issue I'm kind of dissapointed.

Erebus

08-05-2007, 05:07 PM

This issue made me miss Batman Beyond so much. I'm practically praying they make Terry on one of the new Earths.

And yeah, Damien is pretty hardcore. I can see why Barbera hates him. He's twisted his father's legacy by breaking the "no killing" rule numerous times.

Sophisticated_Gamer

08-07-2007, 01:50 PM

Okay, I had a few questions.
After the batman kills the eveil batman, in the next panel we see someone burn on the steak, is that the evil batman being sent back to hell?

Also, wasn't the Batman #665 was supposed to be a three issue arc about him getting haunted by 3 crazy batmans?

I'm so confuzed!

Mia

08-07-2007, 05:23 PM

This issue made me miss Batman Beyond so much. I'm practically praying they make Terry on one of the new Earths.

I'm curious, why would you want Terry to be Batman in the future. Batman Beyond was a great show. However Terry had no skills or talent besides being naturally athletic. The suit did all the 'heavy lifting' and Bruce essentially told him what to do. The Joker was right when described him as being nothing but 'An erand boy for the old man'. That's essentially what Terry was. Nice kid but I never really saw him as Batman. He had no prescence or gravitas.

Damien at least seems to be a more of a self made man and his own person. Which is how I see Batman. Which is why I also think that there are so few heroes who can fill his shoes.

Dr. Chaos

08-07-2007, 05:26 PM

THANK YOU, mia.

I sometimes feel like I'm the only that despises Terry and that stupid outfit with a passion..

Captain Jim

08-07-2007, 07:50 PM

wasn't Batman #665 supposed to be a three issue arc about him getting haunted by 3 crazy batmans?

Well, three ghosts, yeah. Isn't that what #664-666 was?

Erebus

08-08-2007, 07:14 PM

I'm curious, why would you want Terry to be Batman in the future. Batman Beyond was a great show. However Terry had no skills or talent besides being naturally athletic. The suit did all the 'heavy lifting' and Bruce essentially told him what to do. The Joker was right when described him as being nothing but 'An erand boy for the old man'. That's essentially what Terry was. Nice kid but I never really saw him as Batman. He had no prescence or gravitas.

Damien at least seems to be a more of a self made man and his own person. Which is how I see Batman. Which is why I also think that there are so few heroes who can fill his shoes.

Too lazy to respond, so I'll just post something Genma said:

As was pointed out in another thread, the suit by itself is capable of shearing right through solid rock with little trouble. Inside it, Terry was fully capable of slugging it out with folks who toss cars like tinker toys.

He fought master assassins who showed themselves to be every bit as agile and skilled as Ty, and the suit has allowed him to weather crap that would burn a normal person to a crisp, shred them, crush them, whatever.

And by the end of the series, he's shown himself to be Batman in or out of the suit. Even before he started up, he was a competent fighter who could thrash gangs by himself. At the end, he's basically Bruce reincarnated. Ironic, considering the revelation later.

So yeah, if you're talking about beginning of series Terry, I can see why you think Bruce's advice has some impact or something.

But end of series Terry is just fine by himself. Especially against Ty Lee, who he outranks by a large margin in stats, and is comparable in skill.

Oh, and has a crapload of gadgets that would allow him to stomp her anyway.

Edit: I just wanted to add that Damien's Batmobile looked like a freaking go-cart.

Sean Whitmore

08-08-2007, 07:59 PM

Too lazy to respond, so I'll just post something Genma said:

Well, Genma beat me to every point I was gonna make. Terry proved himself as Batman with or without Bruce AND the suit.

I'll add that any point the Joker made about Terry being an errand boy probably became moot after Terry beat his ass like a drum.

SEAN

Sophisticated_Gamer

08-08-2007, 08:39 PM

Well, three ghosts, yeah. Isn't that what #664-666 was?

No it was supposed to be 665-667...so wtf? there.

Captain Jim

08-08-2007, 08:50 PM

No it was supposed to be 665-667...so wtf? there.

Not so. #667 was always supposed to be the first part of the Batmen of All Nations arc. That's how it was solicited way back when.

jadrax

08-08-2007, 08:56 PM

No it was supposed to be 665-667...so wtf? there.

No, the story was always supposed to be 664 - 666

Captain Jim

08-08-2007, 08:57 PM

No, the story was always supposed to be 664 - 666

I think there's an echo in here. ;) :D

Mia

08-09-2007, 05:08 AM

Too lazy to respond, so I'll just post something Genma said:

Edit: I just wanted to add that Damien's Batmobile looked like a freaking go-cart.

I agree he was a great fighter. But Batman has always been more than that. He’s a genius, a strategist who plays to win. I didn’t get that with Terry.

More often than not Terry reminded me of Dick Grayson. The whole thing made me think of Prodigal.

shawnh

08-22-2007, 01:08 PM

Forgive me for bumping this, but I get my comics at Barnes and Noble so sometimes I get them late.

I thought this was a great issue, but there were a couple of things I didn't understand about it. There seemed to be a lot of metaphorical references and references to Satanism in the book, but I couldn't see how they all tied together. The best clue, I thought, was what Batman said when he was looking at the map, how the two horns (which might also refer to there being two Batmen instead of one?) represented triumphs of the material over the spiritual. This Batman certainly seems to live in a world that's devolved, is as hot as hell and everything is going there in a handbasket, he himself is a much less worthy Batman who is not good enough to live up to Batman's ideas, he must cheat and cut and kill. There's also the ideal of dueling antichrists, the apocalypse, satanic symbols and falls to hell. Batman's costume also lost the cape, perhaps like an angel who lost its wings.

Eh, maybe I'm just trying to read too much into it. I do get the feeling I'd understand it better if I knew more about satanism, though.

One other thing I didn't get, because of the confusing art, was why the more evil Batman burst into flames before he died. It looked cool but I couldn't tell why. And I wonder if Batman really sold his soul to Satan or he's just referring metaphorically to some deal he made with someone. And why does the more evil Batman have all of Firefly's gags.

Captain Jim

08-23-2007, 11:05 AM

I'm guessing that this has something to do with the fact that this is issue #666 (in the Bible, 666 is the number of the Antichrist).

ultramandingo

08-23-2007, 05:39 PM

.......i like how morrisons #666 batman is all about being "from hell" - superman #666 whimps out at the end

SPOLIER !!!!!!!! - though supes killing luthor with a luggie was kinda classic

cactusmaac

08-26-2007, 05:37 PM

I agree he was a great fighter. But Batman has always been more than that. He’s a genius, a strategist who plays to win. I didn’t get that with Terry.

More often than not Terry reminded me of Dick Grayson. The whole thing made me think of Prodigal.

To be fair to Terry, he didn't have the decade and a half of training that Bruce did and I'd struggle to think of any high-school student who displayed presence and gravitas. He acquitted himself well enough in a number of high-pressure situations (like facing the Starro-controlled future Superman) and getting the Joker to lose his shit is something not even Bruce managed to do.

The issue was OK but I can't say Morrison's run has really impressed me to date. I know he's been a critic of decompression in the past but the initial Batman and Son four-parter needed either more room for the story to breathe or denser instalments. The pacing feels kind of slap-dash.

Club Of Heroes has some tasty art but I'm not invested enough in the characters or the mystery to really care about the resolution. Stormwatch PHD #9 pulled that off much better.

sabongero

08-26-2007, 10:11 PM

I like this "Damian" future Batman. But Oracle becoming Commissioner Gordon, should have more control over this new Batman. After all she was formerly Oracle and has her own set of teams of superheroes/vigilantes.

Jack Zodiac

08-26-2007, 11:58 PM

How could she have any control over Damian when Batman doesn't have any control over Damian? If he would've bent to her character, I would've been disappointed.

sabongero

08-27-2007, 12:10 AM

How could she have any control over Damian when Batman doesn't have any control over Damian? If he would've bent to her character, I would've been disappointed.

You know what I should rephrase that. What I meant was she has her own Birds of Prey team. And has the Justice League to back her up. So she should be able to control Damian Batman.

And I agree with you, I don't want Batman bending over anyone's whim other than his own.

Rupertmetal

09-05-2007, 05:03 PM

Ya know how they show Damien as a child killing "a Batman."

Then later Babs said that the current Batman (Damien) made her lose a "friend."

And when adult-Damien is walking down a hallway in the batcave, they show a Batman, then another Batman with a bigger black bat on his chest with kid-Damien standing next to him.

Well, I think Dick Grayson took over as Batman for awhile and I think Damien killed Dick when Dick was Batman. Meaning, Bruce must have died of natural causes.

So, I'm wondering where the hell Tim Drake is in this issue. Tim should only be a couple years older than Damien, and he would have wanted to be Batman.

Hell, Tim might have killed Damien for killing Dick.

I can understand Morrison leaving out Jason Todd and Cassandra, but Tim should have been mentioned.

Well, what do you guys think? Who exactly did kid-Damien kill? Dick or Bruce. Or do you think Tim was that Batman, even though they are too close in age for that to make sense.