"Shark-Man" Re-Debuts at Image Comics

[andy khouri]

"Alien" co-creator Ronald Shusset, Radical co-founder Dave Elliot, writer Michael Town and artist Steve Pugh return to the pages of "Shark-Man," a pet project that almost sunk before it could swim.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11283

[GeorgeG]

This was such a great debut for a comic...and then it disappeared. Now, being at Image has me concerned, quite frankly because it's at Image.

But anyways...

An eyebrow raised when they described the new direction, i.e. the ghost of Shark-Man. That's just plain dumb guys. You had such a good--well great really--first issue and then you go a complete 180 and just lost me w/ this idea.

But even more, # 2 is being offered at Comicon for free, but then a "new" # 2 will be solicited for February 2008 with 50% more pages or story or what?

Color me absolutely confused.

[Erik Larsen]

This was such a great debut for a comic...and then it disappeared. Now, being at Image has me concerned, quite frankly because it's at Image.

What the hell is THAT supposed to mean?

[Sadyv]

Probably has something to do with Image's, to be blunt, shitty record of late books, unfinished series, and solicitated material that is later canceled.

[mgs]

"Alien" co-creator Ronald Shusset

you misquote yourself. in the article you say he was the co-writer of Alien. also, what the hell is shark-man? And wouldn't he be redundant given Larsen's Savage Dragon character who was also a shark?

[Erik Larsen]

Probably has something to do with Image's, to be blunt, shitty record of late books, unfinished series, and solicitated material that is later canceled.

That's not only completely unfair and uncalled for but wholly inaccurate. Strictly playing the percentage game--we're doing as well as anybody--particularly of late. Statements like this are spoken out of ignorance and have no basis in reality.

[The Scribe]

Probably has something to do with Image's, to be blunt, record of late books, unfinished series, and solicitated material that is later canceled.

Should people who don't like Image be on this forum? :rolleyes:


I'm looking forward to seeing this. My shop forgot to order the original series. :mad:

I'll have to buy them from an Internet shop.

[Tinmansstory]

I never heard of this before, but I'll definitely be picking this up. The art reminds me of Daniel Acuna's, except it's actually good instead of pure shite. Plus, I'm intrigued by the 30's style to it- it's kind of like the Rocketeer... but with sharks.

As for Image's "lateness," yeah, I really don't get what that's referring to. Granted, I don't read every book by the publisher but when you look at Marvel's Ultimates 2 and Ultimate Hulk Vs. Wolverine (what the hell? Is Damon Lindelof waiting for Lost to end in 2010 to finish 2 or 3 issues?), or DC's recent Action Comics, Batman and Robin, Wildcats (4.0?), Wonder Woman a while back... it's pretty unwarranted to say the least.

[GeorgeG]

What the hell is THAT supposed to mean?

Pretty much what Sadyv said.

I've tried Image titles countless of times and they uphold the reputation he/she just stated.

You may choose not to believe it, but it's true. Call it reputation. Call it perception. Call it fact. Whatever you want to use.

Particularly of late? Are we talking in the past year, two? A little further, three?

It sounds like when you are comparing against others, that it's okay to be late, or am I misreading your statement?

And just to add, Erik, check out other threads here asking about books that are/were supposed to come out this year--ahem--month, and if you can respond to these "accusations" I'm sure many readers would be appreciative.

[Erik Larsen]

Pretty much what Sadyv said.

I've tried Image titles countless of times and they uphold the reputation he/she just stated.

You may choose not to believe it, but it's true. Call it reputation. Call it perception. Call it fact. Whatever you want to use.


The appropriate word is "bullshit."

The fact of the matter is that a lot of publishers have books that have ended prematurely. In the last couple years I can only think of one book at Image that did.

There isn't a comic book company out there that doesn't have numerous late books and we have a few, I'll grant you, but it's not like it was years ago--and we don't have anything that compares with All-Star Batman or the Ultimates or countless other titles from companies that you'd call "more reputable" than Image.

[Erik Larsen]

Here's the deal with Image. We put out books by creators that have stories to tell. If a book is late it's not the fault of Image Comics--it's the fault of the creators of that book. We don't make books late.

So, please--don't presume that just because a book comes to Image that it's suddenly going to ship late--because that's nonsense.

"Ultra" shipped on time, like clockwork--"Girls" shipped on time every time. "Savage Dragon" is running late and you know whose fault that is? It's MY fault. I'M the reason that book is late. And you know what I did when my book was running late? I stopped soliciting the book. And I won't solicit another issue until I know with absolute certainty that it will be out the month that I solicited it for.

Will "Shark-Man" ship on time? That's up to Ronald Shusset, Dave Elliot, Michael Town and Steve Pugh. We'll do our part--as always--to get the book to the printer in a timely fashion.

[andy khouri]

"Alien" co-creator Ronald Shusset, Radical co-founder Dave Elliot, writer Michael Town and artist Steve Pugh return to the pages of "Shark-Man," a pet project that almost sunk before it could swim.


you misquote yourself. in the article you say he was the co-writer of Alien.

Huh?

I'm sure you're not simply trying to point out that the word "creator" is in fact a different word than "writer," as doing so would of course be grotesquely pedantic and embarrassing.

But just in case you are picking depressingly small nits, I'll just point out that by no stretch of even the worst pedant's imagination did I, as you claim, misquote myself -- I didn't write the article.

Thank you. Come again.

[andy khouri]

If you people read the article, you'll discover the "Shark-Man" creators are themselves responsible for this project's pronounced lateness, not their previous publisher, not Erik Larsen, not Image Comics.

Welcome to the world of indie comic books -- INDEPENDENT comic books, where the AUTHORS are IN CHARGE. It's kind of the whole point.

Erik Larsen's job is to publish comics people really want to read. Judging by the fury with which you guys react to your favorite Image books being late, it sounds like he's doing a fucking good job.

[dan bailey]

I'm sure I buy a higher percentage of Image's output than any other publisher's (except maybe for Boom, who of course publish far fewer titles & have certain problems with lateness themselves, as acknowledged in another thread), & I have no desire to antagonize Eric or anyone else ...

... But since he's apparently paying attention to this thread, I am curious as to why neither he nor anyone else from the company has responded to the following question (not from me, btw) from a few days ago on this forum under Image's Schedule -- I love Image comics, but I want to know . . . Why is it so hard to find out when their comics come out.

[shyguy]

Wait, so were there ever any Shark-Man comics beyond #1? Because I loved #1 and always just assumed that I couldn't find subsequent issues for whatever reason.

At any rate, I'm happy that it's coming to Image.

[David Elliott]

This was such a great debut for a comic...and then it disappeared. Now, being at Image has me concerned, quite frankly because it's at Image.

But anyways...

An eyebrow raised when they described the new direction, i.e. the ghost of Shark-Man. That's just plain dumb guys. You had such a good--well great really--first issue and then you go a complete 180 and just lost me w/ this idea.

But even more, # 2 is being offered at Comicon for free, but then a "new" # 2 will be solicited for February 2008 with 50% more pages or story or what?

Color me absolutely confused.

Hey, George

What colour is confused? ;)

Here is what we are doing...

Starting in 2008, so we can get some lead in time to get more artwork finished, we will be relaunching SHARK-MAN at Image. We will release #1 but with extra pages. Those extra pages ties into the introduction of one bad mother impregnator of a villain who will have a continued appearance in issues 2 and 3 and beyond. If you pick up this version of issue 2 he makes a brief appearance.

The issue two you'll get in stores this week and at Comicon is a condensed version of issues 2 and 3. When they come out from Image next year you'll see you've only seen half the story here but for those that picked up number one we wanted to let you see where we are going.

We are also bringing on another artist to alternate with Steve so we can keep the book on a decent schedule.

I've been at Comicon for a day already and I have met several creators and people within the industry who are fans of the first issue who are very happy to hear that Shark-Man is back and at Image. I don't understand how can anyone knock the passion that Erik Larsen and Eric Stephenson have for the industry or blame them for making a book late. If Shark-Man is late, I know it won't be their fault (other than for trusting us).

Yours,

Dave

[Erik Larsen]

I am curious as to why neither he nor anyone else from the company has responded to the following question (not from me, btw) from a few days ago on this forum under Image's Schedule -- I love Image comics, but I want to know . . . Why is it so hard to find out when their comics come out.

The answer is simple: Because the schedule is out of our hands.

People seldom solicit comics with complete issues on hand. Most folks have a start and a cover and they work away at it but until we get finished files in our hands--we can't put out the comic. And comic book creators can be extremely unpredictable. We format books and get them to the printer in a matter of days but that means that WE don't know what's actually coming out for sure until a week or two before the books go on sale and even when we did everything right there are times that the printers screw up a book and it needs to be pulped and reprinted.

So--the reason it's so hard to find out when our comics come out is because WE don't know when our comics are coming out.

[GeorgeG]

The answer is simple: Because the schedule is out of our hands.

People seldom solicit comics with complete issues on hand. Most folks have a start and a cover and they work away at it but until we get finished files in our hands--we can't put out the comic. And comic book creators can be extremely unpredictable. We format books and get them to the printer in a matter of days but that means that WE don't know what's actually coming out for sure until a week or two before the books go on sale and even when we did everything right there are times that the printers screw up a book and it needs to be pulped and reprinted.

So--the reason it's so hard to find out when our comics come out is because WE don't know when our comics are coming out.

And yet you solicit them anyway?

If the publisher doesn't know and then doesn't share much-- if any-- information with its readers regarding the titles, you think that's okay?

Sounds like you're giving yourself a pretty big pass on any responsibility here Erik.

[andy khouri]

The Shark-Man article has been updated with a bunch of new, exclusive pages.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11287

[David Elliott]

And yet you solicit them anyway?

If the publisher doesn't know and then doesn't share much-- if any-- information with its readers regarding the titles, you think that's okay?

Sounds like you're giving yourself a pretty big pass on any responsibility here Erik.

George,

I'm not talking for Erik but the thing you have to realize about Image that is different when comparing it to DC or Marvel is that they don't own what they publish (outside of their own produced titles) the creators do. On Shark-Man Image aren't paying a page rate, but they do supply a venue to publish and cover our printing bills.

If I give them five pages of an issue and a cover, so that they can solicit it, they have to take it on trust with me that we are going to deliver. If they insisted on a completed issue from everybody before it was even solicited we'd have to be working almost six months a head of schedule before we saw any money returning.

It is a very difficult and trusting way of doing business. Sometimes people get let down, but it isn't deliberate and is the nature of the way of doing business in pretty much the last place you can work and own your own property.

Yours,

Dave

[dan bailey]

So--the reason it's so hard to find out when our comics come out is because WE don't know when our comics are coming out.

I knew there had to be some good reason -- thanks for clearing it up!

[Schmakt]

I'm happy that this book is coming out again... I liked the idea behind Thrill House, but I'm happy with the book being at Image too... as long as the next two issues are as cool as the first, I'll be happy. Print it bi-monthly or whatever... I don't care... just get the story out there. I was very interested in the first issue and very disheartened when issue #2 continued to not come out.

I actually got a cool preview page in my email from what was slated to be #2 when I wrote to the address on the TH website... that was pretty sweet and definitely got my hopes back up... but they were dashed again... but now they're back up again... I feel like a woman. ;)

[mgs]

Huh?

I'm sure you're not simply trying to point out that the word "creator" is in fact a different word than "writer," as doing so would of course be grotesquely pedantic and embarrassing.

But just in case you are picking depressingly small nits, I'll just point out that by no stretch of even the worst pedant's imagination did I, as you claim, misquote myself -- I didn't write the article.

Thank you. Come again.

sorry, i apologize, Jonah wrote the article. you mis-quoted it. see, that's how it's done. I wasn't trying to be nit picky, but I don't think I can help you if you can't distinguish/don't believe the difference between a creator and a writer (hint: it's a big one).

btw, i wasn't trying to be snarky, but if you are so offended about a piece that you did not even write yourself, you need to take a chill pill.

[andy khouri]

sorry, i apologize, Jonah wrote the article. you mis-quoted it. see, that's how it's done. I wasn't trying to be nit picky, but I don't think I can help you if you can't distinguish/don't believe the difference between a creator and a writer (hint: it's a big one).

btw, i wasn't trying to be snarky, but if you are so offended about a piece that you did not even write yourself, you need to take a chill pill.

I'm certain you weren't trying to be snarky-- you were being bitchy, and you're being bitchy again.

I wasn't offended by the article -- don't know where you got that. My remarks in this thread have been in response to posts in this thread, not to the article.

You were so offended by the "misquote" that you had to take the time to point it out, bitchily. Additionally, you were so offended by the article that you went on to moan about the very existence of Shark-Man and so forth.

Finally, to misquote someone is to distort or falsely characterize their remarks, and I did not do that. In fact, I wasn't even quoting anyone. I never said, "Jonah said Ronald Shusett was the co-creator of Alien." I was writing a bit of text telling people what the article was about. I used a different word to describe a person than Jonah did, and, at least in the context in question, "creator" and "writer" are plainly similar.

Your nitpicking is made more ridiculous by the fact that not only is Shusett frequently referred to as both an "Alien" co-creator and co-writer, he has himself used the terms interchangeably.

Ugh.

[mgs]

you're obviously very sensitive about this, so I'll just leave it at this. :confused:

[Chris Johnson]

My shop did not order any of the copies of Shark-Man's original run, so I'm very excited to hear that it's making its return through image. The artwork always looked fantastic to me, and the concept looks intriguing. As to the whole Image lateness thing, I really don't get too worked up about books being late. Things happen, sometimes things that are out of the creator's control. If a book is late, it won't be the end of the world, because the book will come out, it's just a longer bit of a wait.

[The Scribe]

And yet you solicit them anyway?

If the publisher doesn't know and then doesn't share much-- if any-- information with its readers regarding the titles, you think that's okay?

Sounds like you're giving yourself a pretty big pass on any responsibility here Erik.

The comics are solicited because the creators tell Erik they are going to ship.

Image isn't work for hire. Can you wrap your mind around the word independent?

I don't believe you understand the concept of an independent comic company or the word independent. Functionally illiterate?


I found Shark-Man's bio:

Shark-Man (http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/sharkman.htm)

[Tinmansstory]

OK, how about everyone stop being a douchebag and remember that this thread is about a new comic called Shark-Man from Image Comics? Eh? Eh?

It's amazing the brass ones people develop from internet anonymity.

[Doug W]

This is really cool news, I was afraid I'd seen the last of this book. But now its back, and at my favorite publisher no less!

I'm a little dissapointed to read that Steve Pugh won't be doing all the art, but if it means more Shark-Man it may be for the best.

[K.O.V.G]

looks Cool To me

[Sadyv]

The comics are solicited because the creators tell Erik they are going to ship.

Image isn't work for hire. Can you wrap your mind around the word independent?

I don't believe you understand the concept of an independent comic company or the word independent. Functionally illiterate?

Wait, so being independent means that you don't have to handle things in a professional manner?

Creator owned or work for hire, the company publishing the books should have something approaching a firm idea as to when a book may be ready to actually be done before soliciting.

[K.O.V.G]

I've never heard of Sharkman the name sound kinda cheesy but it looks interesting i'm looking forward to this new superhero to make his debute.

[Schmakt]

I've never heard of Sharkman the name sound kinda cheesy but it looks interesting i'm looking forward to this new superhero to make his debute.

The name is the only reason I almost didn't buy this book. :)


Trying to be a fan was pretty frustrating at first too, actually... I tried finding that Gene Colan variant to no avail... I wanted to get the Cryptid special thing by ordering Shark-Man from mycomicshop... multiple emails and zero replies. waited and waited and waited for #2... and now, of course, I'm not at San Diego, so I'll probably never see it... very frustrating ride so far...

so... dispite the downturns, it's still good to hear this is being published again. At Image, not at Image... who cares. :)

[Erik Larsen]

And yet you solicit them anyway?

If the publisher doesn't know and then doesn't share much-- if any-- information with its readers regarding the titles, you think that's okay?

Sounds like you're giving yourself a pretty big pass on any responsibility here Erik.

The reality of the situation is that 95% of ALL comics solicited haven't been completed when they were solicited. The way our company is set up, creators get paid after their comics go on sale. If creators had to have large numbers of issues completed before publication--well, you're basically expecting folks not to be able to EAT for half a year.

It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

Everybody anticipates creators being punctual. Often they are--but the exceptions tend to be remembered not the others. Few judge Marvel by the schedule of the Ultimates--few judge DC by the schedule of Wonder Woman or All-Star Batman--but they have no trouble judging Image for a late book or two.

There's a double standard at work here and I don't think it's entirely fair.

[B Clay Moore]

I've never heard of Sharkman the name sound kinda cheesy but it looks interesting i'm looking forward to this new superhero to make his debute.

It's totally cheesy! But that's part of what's so fun about it.

It's just a fun, action-oriented comic book.

And, let's be honest. "Spider-Man" and "Batman" aren't cheesy? :)

I really got a kick out of that first issue, and look forward to more.

-BCM

[heystacy]

The artwork looks great. I am looking forward to this one. :cool:

[dan bailey]

The reality of the situation is that 95% of ALL comics solicited haven't been completed when they were solicited. The way our company is set up, creators get paid after their comics go on sale. If creators had to have large numbers of issues completed before publication--well, you're basically expecting folks not to be able to EAT for half a year.

It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

Everybody anticipates creators being punctual. Often they are--but the exceptions tend to be remembered not the others. Few judge Marvel by the schedule of the Ultimates--few judge DC by the schedule of Wonder Woman or All-Star Batman--but they have no trouble judging Image for a late book or two.
There's a double standard at work here and I don't think it's entirely fair.

Well said. Personally, I hold the Big Two far more liable, as it were, for lateness than I do indie companies, simply because Marvel & DC have so many more resources to draw from & so great a cushion to fall back on, & thus (in my eyes) no plausible excuses for not printing & shipping as originally scheduled, & I've dropped the occasional comic (Wonder Woman, for instance, since you happen to mention it by name) as a consequence.

As someone who's spent virtually his entire professional life (as a newspaper reporter, then a newspaper editor, then a freelance writer, now an online editor) skating on the thin edge of deadlines, I don't have a whole lot of patience for those who constantly abuse &/or completely ignore the very concept ... but that's reality these days in the field, period.

[David Elliott]

The name is the only reason I almost didn't buy this book. :)


Trying to be a fan was pretty frustrating at first too, actually... I tried finding that Gene Colan variant to no avail... I wanted to get the Cryptid special thing by ordering Shark-Man from mycomicshop... multiple emails and zero replies. waited and waited and waited for #2... and now, of course, I'm not at San Diego, so I'll probably never see it... very frustrating ride so far...

so... dispite the downturns, it's still good to hear this is being published again. At Image, not at Image... who cares. :)

Hey, Schmakt (or can I call you Mak?)

Any retailer that ordered Shark-Man #2 will be getting their copies. Try MyComicShop again, if they've sold out, tell them I sent you and I'll make sure they have copies of 1 & 2 (I even have a few copies of the Gene Colan variant left...).

Best,

Dave

[H.W.]

I for one love Shark-Man and would like to see more people talking about the book here.

[GeorgeG]

The reality of the situation is that 95% of ALL comics solicited haven't been completed when they were solicited. The way our company is set up, creators get paid after their comics go on sale. If creators had to have large numbers of issues completed before publication--well, you're basically expecting folks not to be able to EAT for half a year.

It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

Everybody anticipates creators being punctual. Often they are--but the exceptions tend to be remembered not the others. Few judge Marvel by the schedule of the Ultimates--few judge DC by the schedule of Wonder Woman or All-Star Batman--but they have no trouble judging Image for a late book or two.

There's a double standard at work here and I don't think it's entirely fair.

There's no double standard here. DC has been raked over the coals for their lateness, and I would expect the same holds true for Marvel's Ultimate line (I don't follow them).

And Erik, I'm not talking about a book or two.

Do readers out there a favor. Go back two years and write down every issue of an Image title that didn't meet its original solicitation date.

Perhaps if you see it on paper, right in front of you, then you can see why people have this perception of your company. You can see why readers feel frustrated.

Your first paragraph illustrating the percentage makes me wonder why you feel that's appropriate to operate that way.

You know the books you're soliciting aren't going to make the solicitation date. You know it. And yet you continue to do it?

How's that good business again?

[GeorgeG]

Well said. Personally, I hold the Big Two far more liable, as it were, for lateness than I do indie companies, simply because Marvel & DC have so many more resources to draw from & so great a cushion to fall back on, & thus (in my eyes) no plausible excuses for not printing & shipping as originally scheduled, & I've dropped the occasional comic (Wonder Woman, for instance, since you happen to mention it by name) as a consequence.

As someone who's spent virtually his entire professional life (as a newspaper reporter, then a newspaper editor, then a freelance writer, now an online editor) skating on the thin edge of deadlines, I don't have a whole lot of patience for those who constantly abuse &/or completely ignore the very concept ... but that's reality these days in the field, period.

No, you should hold EVERYONE on the same field of liability. Lateness is lateness, whether you're DC, Marvel or joe blow publishing.

And it shouldn't be "reality" this day or any day. It's poor business practice. It's unprofessional.

If you or anyone else were late with work, you'd be fired.

Newspapers have dealines. Magazines have deadlines.

Why does the comic book industry get a pass? Why do publishers and/or creators feel that way?

[GeorgeG]

I for one love Shark-Man and would like to see more people talking about the book here.

Hey, when the book comes out, I'll be the first one to post. But it's a ways away & we have to see if in fact it does come out.

[JayWicky]

Newspapers have dealines. Magazines have deadlines.

Why does the comic book industry get a pass? Why do publishers and/or creators feel that way?

Maybe because producing art takes more time than writing copy ?

JW

[Hatut Zeraze]

Shark-Man!! This thread is almost a month old and I just now noticed it.

As far as I'm concerned, Shark-Man being at Image is a great thing. While there are certainly a lot of Image comics that don't interest me, the great many that do speak volumes about the publisher's commitment to publishing quality comics.

And concerning late comics, I really don't care that much. When I wait 2-6 months in between issues of All-Star Superman, I'm OK with that because I adore the look of Frank Quitely's art. I can say the same for Steve Pugh's if it is half as good as the first issue. Naturally I'd like it better sooner than later, but I'd much prefer a well-done product to a rushed one.

Go Shark-Man, go!

[MartinRedmond]

Maybe because producing art takes more time than writing copy ?

JW

What? Are you kidding? I think a magazine takes much more coordination and work than a comic.

[MartinRedmond]

I just got all 3 issues. Wow! Steve Pugh did an awesome job!!!! You're godless if you didn't buy this. Hardcover this right now Erik Larsen please, thanks.

[Jack-In-The-Box]

That's not only completely unfair and uncalled for but wholly inaccurate. Strictly playing the percentage game--we're doing as well as anybody--particularly of late. Statements like this are spoken out of ignorance and have no basis in reality.

While you're here would you care to comment on the status of Infinite Horizon?

You can call me ignorant too if you want, but I agree with the original post. Image is terribly unreliable and outside of The Walking Dead I've quit buying altogether.

[Jack-In-The-Box]

Wait, so being independent means that you don't have to handle things in a professional manner?

Creator owned or work for hire, the company publishing the books should have something approaching a firm idea as to when a book may be ready to actually be done before soliciting.

Stated perfectly.

[MartinRedmond]

I only really resurected this because I got all 3 issues at once. I had no idea it was that late. Honest. Too bad, it didn't come out timely or that no one's really discussing Steve's AWESOME artwork on this.

[Schmakt]

While you're here would you care to comment on the status of Infinite Horizon?

You can call me ignorant too if you want, but I agree with the original post. Image is terribly unreliable and outside of The Walking Dead I've quit buying altogether.

Proof has come out on time for 12 issues in a row now :)

[JohnPopa]

What? Are you kidding? I think a magazine takes much more coordination and work than a comic.


Yes but there are many more people involved as well. If a writer of a magazine article misses his deadline, the publisher can run another story. Comics don't have that liberty. (That isn't to justify a late ship one way or another but any comparison to how magazines are made isn't particularly relevant to how comics are made.)