Wasn't DC Supposed to be Happier After Infinite Crisis?

[drwho]

Wasnt DC trying to change there image to the more innocent Silver agish type stories after Infinite crisis? And here we have Flash's getting stomped to death and Amazons showing up and committing mass murder. Innocent Mary Marvel being tempted to the darkside. Also GLS getting massacred left and right. Anyone have any idea whatever happened to that idea? Was it truly their intent after infinite to make the dcu a much lighter place? If so anyone have any idea what may have changed it. To me things seem just as dark as they were prior to infinite crisis.

[jamal Igle]

Wasnt DC trying to change there image to the more innocent Silver agish type stories after Infinite crisis? And here we have Flash's getting stomped to death and Amazons showing up and committing mass murder. Innocent Mary Marvel being tempted to the darkside. Also GLS getting massacred left and right. Anyone have any idea whatever happened to that idea? Was it truly their intent after infinite to make the dcu a much lighter place? If so anyone have any idea what may have changed it. To me things seem just as dark as they were prior to infinite crisis.

No that was fan speculation.

[mrc1214]

I thought it was the other way around. It seemed like DC was getting much darker after Crisis. It is a bit much sometimes but Im really enjoying the new DC.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

No, they said that the heroes will act more like heroes, but the problems they will face will be darker.

And, there are some titles that are more light-hearted, like Blue Beetle. If you support comics like that, you may get your wish.

[whitefox360]

Now, I can't speak for what was mentioned in the press or hyped
through previews or whatever, but I look at it this way.

(Forgive me for simplifying this, but i dont want to type all day)

Alexandor Luthor was going to kill off everyone because they were
dark and grim and blah blah blah.

The Dark and grim heroes, "won" crisis.

After that they took a break because lets face it, with all the stuff that happened over the last few years, anyone would need one.

Enter OYL which showed all the changes...

Some details changed, but the Dark and Grim was still there.

[Ms. M]

You could argue that the heroes are less angst-ridden than before Infinite Crisis with the exception of the Flash situation. Batman is certainly being written as less abrasive and anti-social. The storyline with Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord is over. Black Canary and Green Arrow are getting back together. The Justice League is back on track.

The storylines have been getting more serious because big crises sell comics. And Mary Marvel has turned bad because I suppose she is sexier to the fanboys that way.

[jv2k]

No the point of IC was to kill off Bat-jerk and bring back batman.
They have succeeded in that.

[thronzeblast]

No the point of IC was to kill off Bat-jerk and bring back batman.
They have succeeded in that.

Damn bat's has that much pull

[Buried Alien]

Maybe the Silver Ageish DCU will emerge after FINAL CRISIS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lorendiac]

Wasnt DC trying to change there image to the more innocent Silver agish type stories after Infinite crisis? And here we have Flash's getting stomped to death and Amazons showing up and committing mass murder. Innocent Mary Marvel being tempted to the darkside. Also GLS getting massacred left and right. Anyone have any idea whatever happened to that idea? Was it truly their intent after infinite to make the dcu a much lighter place? If so anyone have any idea what may have changed it. To me things seem just as dark as they were prior to infinite crisis.

I vaguely recall that, sometime before IC ended, Mark Waid was supposedly quoted by fans as having said something along those lines -- i.e. the DCU would be getting a bit cleaner and cheerier, or words to that general effect, after Infinite Crisis. But apparently that was just his personal opinion, or maybe someone in an editorial role at DC had said something in Waid's hearing that could be taken that way and he heard exactly what he wanted to hear and eagerly embraced it as unquestionably being a Solid Statement of a New Change in Policy or whatever, and then mentioned it to fans at conventions or something as being The Secret Truth, when it may have just been that one editor had a very garbled idea of what people at a higher level in the DC bureaucracy thought the whole point of Infinite Crisis was really supposed to be? Who knows?

[Cayman]

From what I remember, Didio quickly denied Waid's statement. I don't remember where though.

[Lorendiac]

From what I remember, Didio quickly denied Waid's statement. I don't remember where though.

I don't think I heard about that one at the time, but if you're right and he did hastily say "Don't take that seriously!" it wouldn't come as a huge shock to me . . . especially since I can look back now on more than a year of what the Post-IC DCU has actually been like . . .

[DaeJi]

I think they are trying to bring back a Silver Agey feel as well as being darker and more intense... right now it doesn't seem to be working too well.. maybe after they FINALLY wrap up this huge, 5 year storyarc they have going on.

[Babylon23]

I thought these comments related more to the heroes themselves than the DCU in general. It's certainly lightened up Batman and Wonder Woman and restored the bond between the big 3.

[Pink Bat Max]

Maybe the Silver Ageish DCU will emerge after FINAL CRISIS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Have they announced 'Final Crisis' or was there only that comment about the period of the 'middle' crises? As I read that, it could be argued that there were more than three crises involved. And I haven't yet seen an announcement of a 'final crisis.' Is this speculation, or has it been announced.

[Buried Alien]

Have they announced 'Final Crisis' or was there only that comment about the period of the 'middle' crises? As I read that, it could be argued that there were more than three crises involved. And I haven't yet seen an announcement of a 'final crisis.' Is this speculation, or has it been announced.

Right here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=182937), sir.

Granted, it's not a whole lot to go on yet, but at least it establishes that the series does exist (or will in less than a year, anyway).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Decepticons_Rule]

I thought we would too. BUT:

-Batman is still a dick, but not an asshole anymore

-Zatanna got shot in the neck by the Joker, good positive times.

-Wally West is back!! HAPPY!!!

-Superboy Prime is back!!! HAPPY!!

-Evil Superman Cyborg is back!!!HAPPY!

-Who can't smile when Bizarro is around?

DC has no clue nor does Marvel, they go with what they think will sell books.

[Nintendite]

It's still a hell a lot more "happier" then Marvel is. Stupid Civil War and all it's stupid after effects.

[Magneto Rocks]

It's still a hell a lot more "happier" then Marvel is. Stupid Civil War and all it's stupid after effects.

Hardly that much happier. Marvel had a hero assassinated by his arch-foe from long range with a sniper, DC had one of it's most beloved heroes beaten to death by his old enemies up close and personal.

They're both pretty much equally grim at this stage.

[Choppa]

Hold the phone, since when is Infinite Crisis over??

I was under the impression that with all of these aftermath stories changing focus and getting pushed into newer books that everything won't be settled until after this 'final crisis'

[Lorendiac]

Hold the phone, since when is Infinite Crisis over??

I was under the impression that with all of these aftermath stories changing focus and getting pushed into newer books that everything won't be settled until after this 'final crisis'

I take a simple position: The day "Infinite Crisis #7" came out, Infinite Crisis was finally over.

On the other hand: Expecting "everything" in the DCU to all "be settled" at any given time, this year or next year or in any other year, sounds like an impossible dream. :)

[Nintendite]

Hardly that much happier. Marvel had a hero assassinated by his arch-foe from long range with a sniper, DC had one of it's most beloved heroes beaten to death by his old enemies up close and personal.

They're both pretty much equally grim at this stage.

Yes, but last time I checked the DCU heroes haven't: A. Gone to civil war against each other, B. Sent the angriest hero into OUTER SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE or C. Been infiltrated by dirty, rotten Skrulls. And DC isn't preparing to get Clark and Lois divorced, separated or have Lois killed, unlike what is almost surely going to happen in Spider-man: One More Day (I think).

Villains will always do bad things, it is when the heroes are dark that a universe is dark.

[DaeJi]

Marvel has the Great Lake Initiative, a fun team filled with light-heartedness and good times; a bright spot in a dark world. DC has the Justice League International, a fun tea... oh wait, they don't anymore because they went and killed them off. Happier place my butt.

[Corrina]

If memory serves me, Geoff Johns stated a couple of years ago on these boards that DC was moving into darkness after Identity Crisis so it could come out more hopeful on the other side.

[Shellhead]

Villains will always do bad things, it is when the heroes are dark that a universe is dark.

Grant Morrison did a nice job expressing that concept in JLA: Earth Two. The heroic Lex Luthor was still an arrogant jerk. And after Batman freed Gotham City from the oppression of Owlman and Boss Gordon, Commissioner Wayne declared that he would shoot anybody in the face if they tried to mess with Gotham again. When those are your good guys, you are definitely living in a dark place.

[Choppa]

I take a simple position: The day "Infinite Crisis #7" came out, Infinite Crisis was finally over.

On the other hand: Expecting "everything" in the DCU to all "be settled" at any given time, this year or next year or in any other year, sounds like an impossible dream. :)

What about all of the unanswered stuff? I didn't follow all of 52 but I don't remember an explanation ever being given for how Gordan and Bullock retuned and what happened to Atkins.

[Phoney Bone]

Hold the phone, since when is Infinite Crisis over??

I was under the impression that with all of these aftermath stories changing focus and getting pushed into newer books that everything won't be settled until after this 'final crisis'

Exactly.

I'm suprised that some people still haven't caught on that Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, and Final Crisis are NOT three separate events... especially since DC said from the beginning that Identity Crisis was the first part of a three act story.




I'm also suprised that some people don't understand that the Dark Mary Marvel story is supposed to show how heroes are NOT supposed to act. Every character the new Mary has run into notes that there is something WRONG about her.

[Magneto Rocks]

At this stage, I'd be VERY sceptical that FInal Crisis was anything beyond a vague notion at the back of someone's head when Identity Crisis was rolling. Hell, maybe even Infinite Crisis.

Heh, does no-one else note the irony of asking "When does Infinite Crisis end?"

[Lorendiac]

Hold the phone, since when is Infinite Crisis over??

I was under the impression that with all of these aftermath stories changing focus and getting pushed into newer books that everything won't be settled until after this 'final crisis'

I take a simple position: The day "Infinite Crisis #7" came out, Infinite Crisis was finally over.

On the other hand: Expecting "everything" in the DCU to all "be settled" at any given time, this year or next year or in any other year, sounds like an impossible dream. :)


What about all of the unanswered stuff? I didn't follow all of 52 but I don't remember an explanation ever being given for how Gordan and Bullock retuned and what happened to Atkins.

The way I look at it, you're asking about two very different things. One is the end of Infinite Crisis. You asked "since when is Infinite Crisis over?" and I figured that the Infinite Crisis ended in the last issue of its own mini.

You're also wondering about getting lots of other things "settled" -- such as what happened in Gotham City during that "missing year" between the end of IC and the start of Batman's OYL issues -- but my attitude is: "Whatever strange things may have happened in that year, they were not a part of Infinite Crisis. That missing year is all the stuff that happened in the DCU after Infinite Crisis. In this context, it doesn't matter how long it takes DC to 'fill in the blanks' for us regarding the latest changes in Gotham City's police department, etc., because the story of whatever happened is separate from the events of Infinite Crisis."

By the same token, I figure that back in the mid-80s, "Crisis on Infinite Earths" was over as soon as #12 of its mini was published, plain and simple. Now, that Crisis and its fallout certainly had consequences for DC, and created all sorts of weird questions about what was or wasn't in continuity, etc., and those things sometimes dragged on for years before various loose ends got tidied up (more or less) and various questions got answered and contradictions got resolved (hopefully), but none of those things meant that "Crisis on Infinite Earths" hadn't ended yet! It was definitely over; the confusion it had created just lingered on for quite some time! :)

I can easily see the same thing happening with "Infinite Crisis" and "Final Crisis" -- a couple of years after "Final Crisis" has ended, there may still be nagging questions that fans are asking and that DC is coyly refusing to definitely answer regarding various bits of continuity -- such as "Just how many of the different Supergirls do Clark Kent and the other inhabitants of the modern DCU actually remember at this point?" -- but I still feel that a Crisis ends when it ends, even if it leaves a huge mess behind! :)

[Choppa]

^I consider that missing year to be important to "Infinite Crisis" since "52"'s original purpose was to tell the aftermath of "Infinite Crisis." The story isn't over IMO becasue "52" never told that story.

[OverMaster]

-Zatanna got shot in the neck by the Joker, good positive times.


Yeah, because she didn't get better. Oh, wait. She did.

I'll cut you credit for the rest of your list (except Wally West's return. Other than killing Bart off for it, I don't see the bad in it. And besides, after Bart's character was Johns-mauled, that was a mercy killing at worst). But don't mess with Dini's Detective run, darnit.