All Flash 1 Spoilers

[drwho]

Luckily I was able to get a copy of the cover that doesn't have Wally looking spastic on it.

I didn't bother to check, but some of the dialog looks like it was rehashed possibly from issues of countdown and the finale to the lightning rod story. I'm not quite sure all of this is in fact original art to this issue. So basically it shows the Rogues freaking out that they actually killed the Flash and they start saying Inertia manipulated them. I don't quite see where they are coming from since they all hate flash anyway. There are some scenes in the issue where the escaped rogues are being taken out by other characters. Wally goes after inertia and discovers he can suck speed force out of people takes Inertia's speed away to the point where he is immobilized and then Wally puts him on display in a museum.

The only thing I liked out of this was the fact that Inertia commented that the reason Bart lost his speed was because Wally was brought back into the universe. I think it would be an interesting story to look at that in fact Wallys return was what caused Bart to lose his powers rather than that machine. Inertia is from the future so perhaps he was aware the timing of the event when Wally was returning and used that to his advantage so that Inertia could build up his own street cred by claiming his machine caused it.

This issue was okay, but the series needs to be much better for me to stick with it.

[blackphoenix]

Wally should have killed Inertia. Alls that's gonna happen is that he's gonna come back and say "You shoulda killed me, cuz" or some crap. I woulda threw the little punk into the sun or took him back in time to the era of the dinosaurs or something! Geez.

[Violently Apathetic]

The issue was pretty much a big 'meh', for me. If it wasn't for the fun art it would have been a GIANT 'meh.'

I also think Wally probably should have killed Inertia, but likely for a different reason than blackphoenix. I thought what Wally did came across as kind of vindictive. When you're dealing with a mad dog you put it down, you don't torment it. It seems morally bankrupt to claim that you will not cross a line and kill someone but then confess that what you did do is worse. I just found the ‘I cannot/will not kill, but I will psychologically torture’ thing kinda icky.

I mean Inertia is just going to escape, I don’t think there are any doubts about that, and he’s just going to be that much crazier. Killing him probably would have been better for all parties.

But no, heroes can only claim moral superiority if they don’t kill, apparently they can do anything short of (or even beyond) that...

Edit: Just so there's no confusion, I don't mean that I think Wally should have killed Inertia in cold blood or anything, just that I feel it would have been better from a narrative standpoint for Inertia to die, possibly while fighting Wally or something.

[spidervenom]

I thought it was pretty good and somthing I noticed on the last page is that theres batmans coustume coming out of a flash ring? whats up with that is wally gonna beome new batman are somthing?

[Kelson]

I didn't bother to check, but some of the dialog looks like it was rehashed possibly from issues of countdown and the finale to the lightning rod story. I'm not quite sure all of this is in fact original art to this issue.

It's all new art. I'm not 100% certain on the dialogue, since I don't have the book in front of me, but if any was reused, it can't have been more than a couple of panels in the JLA section, because that's the only actual overlap.

So basically it shows the Rogues freaking out that they actually killed the Flash and they start saying Inertia manipulated them. I don't quite see where they are coming from since they all hate flash anyway.

Seemed clear to me: they just realized that they've gone from annoying criminals who'll get punched and thrown in jail if they're caught, to cop-killers. Every super-hero on the planet is going to be gunning for them, and those heroes will be less inclined than usual to pull their punches.

And, in true villain style, they're not willing to accept the blame themselves.

The only thing I liked out of this was the fact that Inertia commented that the reason Bart lost his speed was because Wally was brought back into the universe.

I just read that as Inertia not knowing when to quit while taunting Wally.

[ducklord]

One thing I very much liked was (assuming I read it correctly) Mark Waid coming up with an in-story rationale for retiring his famous use of first-person narration when writing the further adventures of Wally West.

Mike

[The Lucky One]

I also think Wally probably should have killed Inertia, but likely for a different reason than blackphoenix. I thought what Wally did came across as kind of vindictive. When you're dealing with a mad dog you put it down, you don't torment it. It seems morally bankrupt to claim that you will not cross a line and kill someone but then confess that what you did do is worse. I just found the ‘I cannot/will not kill, but I will psychologically torture’ thing kinda icky.

But no, heroes can only claim moral superiority if they don’t kill, apparently they can do anything short of (or even beyond) that...

Heroes not killing -- at least in situations like this -- is not an act of mercy, but a supreme act of selfishness. And when I say that, I don't mean to imply that I'm judging or would handle it differently; but it IS obviously so a hero can maintain his or her own vow against killing, instead of any kind of mercy toward the villain.

Anyway, yeah, Wally does bring the hardcore punishment this issue, doesn't he? Although given how often the Flash Museum gets blown up, one could make a darn good case for the idea that he did kill Inertia... it just hasn't gone into effect yet.

It'll make for an awkward situation if Bart's soul returns from the Speed Force to possess Inertia's body just as Rival did to Max Mercury, though...

-D

[Deadpooligan]

The last two pages of the issue ruined it for me. At least, if those are what his kids/decendants(?) turn out to be. Kid Steroids, Batflash, and... whatever his daughter is...

Also, scary demon vagina monster.

The rest of the issue was great, especially Wally turning Inertia into a self-aware statue.

[Adem]

I would pick up the ongoing next month if Karl Kerschl was drawing it. His art was so much better than every other artist in this issue, especially whoever drew the scenes with the JLA.

[spidervenom]

I hope wallys children become speedsteers instead we need more speedsters not some flying girl and some kid dosed with steroids.

[diablo7]

i liked kerschl art but i didn't buy it because i refuse to buy a book that has ian churchill art in it..

[Walter West]

Although it will take a while to get its footing, it definitely outpaced any of the aborted FTFMA issues. I think it will get better and better. Definitely a decent first issue!!!!

[marshal99]

How do we know this is even the same Wally ?

During Bart's run as Flash , didn't he remember that when he went to the speedforce with SBP , he landed on another earth with another Jay , Max Mercury , Wally & Barry ?!?

[spidervenom]

How do we know this is even the same Wally ?

During Bart's run as Flash , didn't he remember that when he went to the speedforce with SBP , he landed on another earth with another Jay , Max Mercury , Wally & Barry ?!?

waid said he cover his absence in future issues.

[Tequilamokinbrd]

I bet a dollar that the Bart Allen Flash from the Titans of Tommorow that's supposed to be showing up soon is Inertia's body possessed by Bart Allen's spirit from the Speed Force. Heck, I'd half bet that Bart returns in this manner along with Grandpa Barry in the Upcoming Final Crisis. It's a great way to put the Genie back in the bottle as far as having aged him as well. I just got the feeling that's where it might go when Wally made the comment about Inertia having Bart's face and being a part of him.


All Flash was pretty good, not epic by any stretch, but an enjoyable read.





So does this officially put Wally in a different weight class powerwise? Because Inertia wasn't getting his speed from the speed force, he was using drugs. So Wally pretty much stole the Speed of a normal human not connected to the speed force, meaning he can do it to anyone. That's kinda epic if you think about it.

How can he lose a fight? He can look at you/touch you and turn you into a statue, move almost at the speed of light, and clock you with an infinite mass punch? Something tells me Wally won't be fighting people with Cold Guns and Bags of Tricks during Waid's run.

Wally could put all of the rogues away like that if he felt like it. They could be just another wing in the Flash Museum.





Anyway...onto other things, like the fact that time travel hurts my head. So ok, Iris was saying that each Crisis was having more and more of an effect on her memory of history, but she said "Each Crisis" like she knew this recent one that just ended wasn't the last one. So if she knows of the Crisises because to her they happened already, how could they affect her memory as they unfold as she remembers it?




And um, what in the heck is up with Wally's kids? A son with Super-Strength and a daughter that looks like she has the powers of maybe The Top? Was Linda gettin freaky busy sex time with The Top and (*insert strongman funniest to you personally, however, I choose...*) Bane?




And as for Wally not killing Inertia, I could totally see why he'd be hesitant. He looks just like Bart. If someone killed your mom, would you find it easy to beat them to death with your bare hands if they looked exactly like your mom and sounded like her? Wouldn't that creep you out? Just imagine being Wally as "Bart" is begging you to have mercy and stop killing him.

[handOFfate]

Well, in all honesty, its kind of hard to imagine any of the rogues except Grodd, Zoom, and maybe Mirror Master putting up any kind of a fight to any Flash. How the hell can a cold gun, flame thrower, or exploding whoopie cushion be any trouble to a guy who runs at the speed of light?

[Violently Apathetic]

Well, in all honesty, its kind of hard to imagine any of the rogues except Grodd, Zoom, and maybe Mirror Master putting up any kind of a fight to any Flash. How the hell can a cold gun, flame thrower, or exploding whoopie cushion be any trouble to a guy who runs at the speed of light?

I think it comes down to using them creatively. Cold's cold field can occasionally slow the Flash down for a bit, and the Trickster being off the ground most of the time makes him hard to nab, but for the most part, you're right, alone they aren't much of a match for the Flash. Which is why they generally work best in a group. Frankly I think Wally is getting(?!) kind of overpowered, and while insane levels can be fun for a while (especially if used creatively) I'd like to see him get to back to basics (and possibly slow down a bit!) in the future.


And as for Wally not killing Inertia, I could totally see why he'd be hesitant. He looks just like Bart. If someone killed your mom, would you find it easy to beat them to death with your bare hands if they looked exactly like your mom and sounded like her? Wouldn't that creep you out? Just imagine being Wally as "Bart" is begging you to have mercy and stop killing him.

I believe thinking of the cruelest way to psychologically torment 'her' would be equally creepy, if not more so.

[marshal99]

Well, in all honesty, its kind of hard to imagine any of the rogues except Grodd, Zoom, and maybe Mirror Master putting up any kind of a fight to any Flash. How the hell can a cold gun, flame thrower, or exploding whoopie cushion be any trouble to a guy who runs at the speed of light?

Which is why the rogues are always shown as making plans for the flash first .Without any kind of planning , they know that they will be in trouble once flash shows up.

[CBikle]

Just so there's no confusion, I don't mean that I think Wally should have killed Inertia in cold blood or anything, just that I feel it would have been better from a narrative standpoint for Inertia to die, possibly while fighting Wally or something.

Right. If a particularly heinous villain dies (or appears to) by falling off a cliff or into a volcano or whatever and seems to really suffer on his/her way out, it absolves the hero of the responsibility of killing or not killing the villain.

[CBikle]

Which is why the rogues are always shown as making plans for the flash first .Without any kind of planning , they know that they will be in trouble once flash shows up.

Right, plus I figure that the Rogues have some sort of motion-sensing targeting systems built into their weapons or something that allows for them to compensate for speedsters.

[rerun]

I thought it was pretty pimp to put him in "freeze" mode while making him start at Bart. That was funny. Come on, they're not gonna have heroes kill again- that got played out with WW.

Also, I think Bart might be a Skrull. :p

[handOFfate]

can anybody post a summary? I'm still trying to decide whether to pick this up. I wish Guggenheim had gotten a chance to continue on The Flash. I thought he did pretty well considering the editorial constraints.

[shyguy]

A couple things about this issue...

Firstly, Inertia's "He screamed like a little bitch" line completely took me out of the story. I thought it was a wildly inappropriate line for a Flash comic and is something I have no desire to see more of.

The second thing is Wally's monsterous punishment for Inertia. Not only can I not believe that Wally would do that (to a child, no less), I can't believe he'd do it in this post-Identity Crisis age of superheroes questioning the methods they use to punish criminals. Cruel and unusual doesn't even begin to cover what Wally did to Inertia, and I can't imagine that people like Jay or Superman would have gone along with what he did.

This issue did a lot to kill the enthusiasm I had for Waid's upcoming Flash run. I'll still give it a shot, but the Inertia thing alone makes me think a lot differently about Wally than I used to.

[BeastieRunner]

I enjoyed this and will be picking up #231 to go with my old run. :)

[UniqueFrequency]

i was very excited after seeing the previews, but flipped through the issue and found that not the whole issue was karl kerschel. which was a disappointment.

besides that, i felt not enough happened in the issue, and perhaps that might take time, but that's time and money i'm currently not willing to spend.

[Mr.50]

Bart will come back and take over Inertia's body. Makes a ton of sense. Lots of story to play with there. Only good reason for Inertia not to die in this story.

The last two pages of art really sucked. I hated the portrayal of the kids.

One interesting thing is I would like to know what is up with the future bat costume out of the ring thing?


Mr.50

[jv2k]

I liked the story but the whole punishment at the end does seem odd. Once again a writer takes the whole "Superheros don't kill" montra too seriously.

I mean really flash decides:
"Your a monster with no ability to reform... but I can't kill you because thats wrong. So now I am going to take away all of your speed so that you are fully concious but unable to move making your existence painful!"

Whats the point of having that little rule if you are going to do something worse than death? It was a badass way to get rid of an enemy but Wally West isn't a badass type of character. If he's not willing to kill he shouldn't be willing to torture.

[Zero Hunter]

I really liked this one shot, but I am not getting the series when it starts up again. Any doubts I had were taken away by seeing the new artists work on the last few pages. I thought that was some of the worst art I have ever seen done for the Flash book. No way am I buying a whole issue done that way. I didn't like his art at all on the recent Green Lantern story, and thought it looks even worse on his Flash pages.

As much as I belive Waid will come back strong in his writing of the book, the art is just to much a hurdle for me to get over this time.

[Walter West]

A couple things about this issue...

Firstly, Inertia's "He screamed like a little bitch" line completely took me out of the story. I thought it was a wildly inappropriate line for a Flash comic and is something I have no desire to see more of.

The second thing is Wally's monsterous punishment for Inertia. Not only can I not believe that Wally would do that (to a child, no less), I can't believe he'd do it in this post-Identity Crisis age of superheroes questioning the methods they use to punish criminals. Cruel and unusual doesn't even begin to cover what Wally did to Inertia, and I can't imagine that people like Jay or Superman would have gone along with what he did.

This issue did a lot to kill the enthusiasm I had for Waid's upcoming Flash run. I'll still give it a shot, but the Inertia thing alone makes me think a lot differently about Wally than I used to.

Inertia said what a person would say in the real world if they were a murderer filled with hubris.

Wally's punishment stops Inertia from killing anyone else. If he had brought him to Arkham Asylum, Inertia would just escape with a hidden vial of Velocity 9 or get teleported by Craydl.

Personally, I think that Inertia will be back and they couldn't do that as easily if Wally snapped his neck like Barry did to Zoom. This is simply another form of imprisonment that leaves the offender alone to contemplate their thoughts without the ability to hurt anyone guarding them.

[rerun]

I really liked this one shot, but I am not getting the series when it starts up again. Any doubts I had were taken away by seeing the new artists work on the last few pages. I thought that was some of the worst art I have ever seen done for the Flash book. No way am I buying a whole issue done that way. I didn't like his art at all on the recent Green Lantern story, and thought it looks even worse on his Flash pages.

As much as I belive Waid will come back strong in his writing of the book, the art is just to much a hurdle for me to get over this time.

Is Acuna going to be the regular artist? I thought it was just a "cameo" for him and some of the other artists in this issue. I am also not a big fan of his work, but I still think I'd get it because I'm a big Wally fan.

[jadrax]

Is Acuna going to be the regular artist? I thought it was just a "cameo" for him and some of the other artists in this issue. I am also not a big fan of his work, but I still think I'd get it because I'm a big Wally fan.

I think he is confirmed or the first 4 at least?

[Violently Apathetic]

Personally, I think that Inertia will be back and they couldn't do that as easily if Wally snapped his neck like Barry did to Zoom. This is simply another form of imprisonment that leaves the offender alone to contemplate their thoughts without the ability to hurt anyone guarding them.

I think was less about worrying about the safety of others and more about cold, hard revenge. It's not just imprisonment, even in prison inmates have certain rights. If Wally wanted to keep Inertia away from other people and leave him in a position to contemplate his thoughts and maybe find some peace with himself he would have stuck Inertia in a quiet, dark place. Instead he did something he knew would cause Inertia considerable mental anguish. You can could argue it's deserved, but I'm not sure how you can say it was anything but deliberate cruelty.

After immobilizing Inertia he should have turned him over to the proper authorities, not decided on a punishment himself.

[IamtheRock3]

It's all new art. I'm not 100% certain on the dialogue, since I don't have the book in front of me, but if any was reused, it can't have been more than a couple of panels in the JLA section, because that's the only actual overlap.



Seemed clear to me: they just realized that they've gone from annoying criminals who'll get punched and thrown in jail if they're caught, to cop-killers. Every super-hero on the planet is going to be gunning for them, and those heroes will be less inclined than usual to pull their punches.

And, in true villain style, they're not willing to accept the blame themselves.



I just read that as Inertia not knowing when to quit while taunting Wally.


didnt they kill cops before. No cold did

and the only reason they never killeded a flash before is they FAILED to

was never from a lack of trying

[Kelson]

didnt they kill cops before. No cold did

Wait, when? I remember the second Mr. Element framing Cold for killing cops, but that's all. (Well, unless you count Mr. Element II himself, but by then he'd already been exposed.)

and the only reason they never killeded a flash before is they FAILED to

was never from a lack of trying

Right ... and now that they've succeeded, they just realized that they're in for a world of hurt.

I take it you've never done something you really wanted to do and then realized that the consequences are going to be horrendous?

[IamtheRock3]

Wait, when? I remember the second Mr. Element framing Cold for killing cops, but that's all. (Well, unless you count Mr. Element II himself, but by then he'd already been exposed.)



Right ... and now that they've succeeded, they just realized that they're in for a world of hurt.

I take it you've never done something you really wanted to do and then realized that the consequences are going to be horrendous?


Ounce maybe. on a REGULAR basis, doing the same thing no. I am no rocket sciencetist, But If I try to kill a hero a town loves, I kind of ASSUME they be consquences. Am I am not a criminal mastermind. Heck killing ANYONE may cause conquences

heck one of these guys got thier parents killed by another rouge. these arent guys who shy away fom killing

Also Captain Cold killed Cops in the Cat woman storyline when the villans united was setting shop in her town

[bdk91939]

There is a forced feeling of the whole Wally West is Back. Sagging sales in Bart Allen's Flash The Fastest Man Alive made the DC editorial board bring back Wally sooner than expected and on the 11th hour kill off Bart Allen.

An All Flash #1 yet no explanation where Wally has been along with his family. I guess Waid is still brainstorming and freewriting the explanation as readers read posts here in the forum.

[Walter West]

You can could argue it's deserved, but I'm not sure how you can say it was anything but deliberate cruelty.

After immobilizing Inertia he should have turned him over to the proper authorities, not decided on a punishment himself.

Is it cruel or is it rehabilitation? If Wally took all the speed out of him and then put him in a grey jail cell, wouldn't it be worse than putting him in the Flash museum? Putting Inertia there where he can see what Wally, Bart, and the other Flashes mean to the people might be intended to show Inertia the error of his ways. :)

And if Inertia had his Velocity 9 drugspeed taken away, he'd still be able to access the speedforce as do all other speedsters who ride the lightning like Jesse Quick, XS, and Wally, so he needs to be slowed down at least temporarily.


Plus, Wally was thinking with his heart more than his head. His nephew was just murdered and the attacker has the ability to run as fast or faster than Jay Garrick because of the pure form of Velocity 9 that he uses. Inertia also has 31st century tech at his disposal, so the immobilization precludes any chance of escape.

My guess is that Wally was just emotional and doesn't plan to keep Bart there for all time. Wally just wants to temporarily imprison Inertia in a place where he is unlikely to be sprung. He'll realize he was just emotional about Bart being killed, and Wally will do the right thing.

Here's an interesting question: as a traveler from the future, can Inertia be prosecuted by our time's authority or does he have to be returned to his own time?

[kalorama]

Is it cruel or is it rehabilitation?

Either way it's blatantly illegal. He's essentially holding Inertia hostage in the Flash museum. At best it's unlawful imprisonment. I can understand taking away his speed, but turning him into a sentient museum exhibit seems to cross the line. Is he going to age? Does he need to eat? Go to the bathroom?

Here's an interesting question: as a traveler from the future, can Inertia be prosecuted by our time's authority or does he have to be returned to his own time?

Wouldn't see why he needed to be returned. People from other countries can be prosecuted in the U.S. for crimes committed in the U.S. Extradition only becomes an issue if their home country requests their return. And even then, it's a long legal process to make it happen.

[marshal99]

There is a forced feeling of the whole Wally West is Back. Sagging sales in Bart Allen's Flash The Fastest Man Alive made the DC editorial board bring back Wally sooner than expected and on the 11th hour kill off Bart Allen.

An All Flash #1 yet no explanation where Wally has been along with his family. I guess Waid is still brainstorming and freewriting the explanation as readers read posts here in the forum.

Thought that the explainations were already shown in Bart Allen's flash issue 6 where he ended up in an alternate earth and that Wally volunteer to go after superboy prime when he broke free from his prison but Bart choose to do it because Wally had his family to take care of ?

[AllisterH]

Well, in all honesty, its kind of hard to imagine any of the rogues except Grodd, Zoom, and maybe Mirror Master putting up any kind of a fight to any Flash. How the hell can a cold gun, flame thrower, or exploding whoopie cushion be any trouble to a guy who runs at the speed of light?

Even Grodd and Mirror Master should be no trouble for Flash. He can steal their speed as well and beside, I never understood why Grodd was a problem. He's a somewhat superstrong (is he even as strong as Mammoth?), telepathic (which even pre Speedforce, Wally was faster than) gorilla

Be serious.

[AllisterH]

Well, in all honesty, its kind of hard to imagine any of the rogues except Grodd, Zoom, and maybe Mirror Master putting up any kind of a fight to any Flash. How the hell can a cold gun, flame thrower, or exploding whoopie cushion be any trouble to a guy who runs at the speed of light?

Then again, even Grood and Mirror Master should be no problem.

Grodd is a somewhat strong (yeah, he's strong, but I dobut he's even in the Wondergirl level to say nothing of Starfire or heaven forbid, the Marvels/Kryptonian level) telepathic (and Flash has always been depicted as faster than thought....) super-smart (of course, not close to Vandal Savage's intellect or worse, Sivana's) gorilla.

Again, why is Grodd a problem for Flash?

Basically put, the only villains who can work without prep that Flash shouldn't be able to handle are the other speedsters. Savitar and Zoom.

[david r]

I'm worried about Mark Waid leaving. I just remembered that Waid already has an editorial position within DC Comics, and has for a few years. During this same time he's been writing Brave & the Bold, Legion of Super-Heroes and 52.

So if Waid gets a new editorial position, he'll concurrently be writing Brave & The Bold, the Flash and that independent book outside DC. (Forgot the title, it was "John Doe".)

I'm now wondering if Waid might be plotting the Flash, and John Rogers will be scripting. Similiar to the working relationship Waid had with Brian Augustin.

[Walter West]

Either way it's blatantly illegal. He's essentially holding Inertia hostage in the Flash museum. At best it's unlawful imprisonment. I can understand taking away his speed, but turning him into a sentient museum exhibit seems to cross the line. Is he going to age? Does he need to eat? Go to the bathroom?


I agree. It's illegal, but it is also revenge. Having someone very close to you murdered might cause you to temporarily make a bad choice. It'll be interesting to see if Wally brings Inertia over to Iron Heights and drops him off. If he doesn't, then I'll be surprised.

The part about taking away Inertia's speed is understandable though. Inertia will escape unless his speed is reduced. Remember: he had Impulse's speed but with greater control. AND he was running without the Velocity 9 which had been taken away by Kadabra, so we know he has regained access to the speedforce.

His speed was taken away. My guess that means that his cells move at a slower speed or his nerves would transmit the messages to his muscles and his muscle cells and skin cells would work. Since those must be slowed down as well, he doesn't need to sleep or pee. :)

Wally needs to consult with the police. Immobilizing a murderer is one thing; unlawful confinement is indeed another.

[Walter West]

You never know though. This might just be the first step towards sending Wally down a bad path. Waid said he wanted to take Wally places he'd never been before. This is a start.

[Kelson]

Ounce maybe. on a REGULAR basis, doing the same thing no. I am no rocket sciencetist, But If I try to kill a hero a town loves, I kind of ASSUME they be consquences. Am I am not a criminal mastermind. Heck killing ANYONE may cause conquences

But they've tried over and over and never succeeded. They never expected it to work. They figured they'd at least slow him down long enough to get away.

Yes, some of them are killers. The reason they're in shock is because of who they killed. And their reaction isn't "Oh, I don't like killing people," it's "Oh, killing this guy is going to get me in deeper **** than anything I have ever done in my entire life (short of that trip to Hell), my days are numbered and I'll probably get my neck snapped like that guy Wonder Woman killed on TV."

And you know what? They were all picked up by (most likely) the Suicide Squad within a matter of days.

An All Flash #1 yet no explanation where Wally has been along with his family. I guess Waid is still brainstorming and freewriting the explanation as readers read posts here in the forum.

The solicits for #233 mention the start of a backup story that explains the missing years.

[handOFfate]

Then again, even Grood and Mirror Master should be no problem.

Grodd is a somewhat strong (yeah, he's strong, but I dobut he's even in the Wondergirl level to say nothing of Starfire or heaven forbid, the Marvels/Kryptonian level) telepathic (and Flash has always been depicted as faster than thought....) super-smart (of course, not close to Vandal Savage's intellect or worse, Sivana's) gorilla.

Again, why is Grodd a problem for Flash?

Basically put, the only villains who can work without prep that Flash shouldn't be able to handle are the other speedsters. Savitar and Zoom.

Well, from what i've seen Grodd can usually distract the Flash with telepathic images even while he's running around. And Grodd can take a TON of damage. I think he works best as the intellectual planner seen on JLU.

Mirror Master's powers make him a pretty flexible opponent for any hero, which I think is the reason he tends to pop up in a lot of titles. He can do a lot of tricky stuff like putting people in mirror dimensions, disguise himself as somebody else, teleport basically anywhere in mere seconds, turn people into mirrors and shatter them, and so forth. He even killed an FBI agent by slitting his reflection's throat and snorted coke through the reflection side of a glass table.

Still, Zoom is definantly the most powerful rogue.

[handOFfate]

Then again, even Grood and Mirror Master should be no problem.

Grodd is a somewhat strong (yeah, he's strong, but I dobut he's even in the Wondergirl level to say nothing of Starfire or heaven forbid, the Marvels/Kryptonian level) telepathic (and Flash has always been depicted as faster than thought....) super-smart (of course, not close to Vandal Savage's intellect or worse, Sivana's) gorilla.

Again, why is Grodd a problem for Flash?

Basically put, the only villains who can work without prep that Flash shouldn't be able to handle are the other speedsters. Savitar and Zoom.

Well, from what i've seen Grodd can usually distract the Flash with telepathic images even while he's running around. And Grodd can take a TON of damage. I think he works best as the intellectual planner seen on JLU.

Mirror Master's powers make him a pretty flexible opponent for any hero, which I think is the reason he tends to pop up in a lot of titles. He can do a lot of tricky stuff like putting people in mirror dimensions, disguise himself as somebody else, teleport basically anywhere in mere seconds, turn people into mirrors and shatter them, and so forth. He even killed an FBI agent by slitting his reflection's throat and snorted coke through the reflection side of a glass table.

Still, Zoom is definantly the most powerful rogue.

[handOFfate]

Then again, even Grood and Mirror Master should be no problem.

Grodd is a somewhat strong (yeah, he's strong, but I dobut he's even in the Wondergirl level to say nothing of Starfire or heaven forbid, the Marvels/Kryptonian level) telepathic (and Flash has always been depicted as faster than thought....) super-smart (of course, not close to Vandal Savage's intellect or worse, Sivana's) gorilla.

Again, why is Grodd a problem for Flash?

Basically put, the only villains who can work without prep that Flash shouldn't be able to handle are the other speedsters. Savitar and Zoom.

Well, from what i've seen Grodd can usually distract the Flash with telepathic images even while he's running around. And Grodd can take a TON of damage. I think he works best as the intellectual planner seen on JLU.

Mirror Master's powers make him a pretty flexible opponent for any hero, which I think is the reason he tends to pop up in a lot of titles. He can do a lot of tricky stuff like putting people in mirror dimensions, disguise himself as somebody else, teleport basically anywhere in mere seconds, turn people into mirrors and shatter them, and so forth. He even killed an FBI agent by slitting his reflection's throat and snorted coke through the reflection side of a glass table.

[handOFfate]

Then again, even Grood and Mirror Master should be no problem.

Grodd is a somewhat strong (yeah, he's strong, but I dobut he's even in the Wondergirl level to say nothing of Starfire or heaven forbid, the Marvels/Kryptonian level) telepathic (and Flash has always been depicted as faster than thought....) super-smart (of course, not close to Vandal Savage's intellect or worse, Sivana's) gorilla.

Again, why is Grodd a problem for Flash?

Basically put, the only villains who can work without prep that Flash shouldn't be able to handle are the other speedsters. Savitar and Zoom.

Well, from what i've seen Grodd can usually distract the Flash with telepathic images even while he's running around. And Grodd can take a TON of damage. I think he works best as the intellectual planner seen on JLU.

Mirror Master's powers make him a pretty flexible opponent for any hero, which I think is the reason he tends to pop up in a lot of titles. He can do a lot of tricky stuff like putting people in mirror dimensions, disguise himself as somebody else, teleport basically anywhere in mere seconds, turn people into mirrors and shatter them, and so forth. He even killed an FBI agent by slitting his reflection's throat and snorted coke through the reflection side of a glass table.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

Illegal or not, what Wally has done is the right thing to do..

[PastePotPete]

A couple things about this issue...

Firstly, Inertia's "He screamed like a little bitch" line completely took me out of the story. I thought it was a wildly inappropriate line for a Flash comic and is something I have no desire to see more of.

The second thing is Wally's monsterous punishment for Inertia. Not only can I not believe that Wally would do that (to a child, no less), I can't believe he'd do it in this post-Identity Crisis age of superheroes questioning the methods they use to punish criminals. Cruel and unusual doesn't even begin to cover what Wally did to Inertia, and I can't imagine that people like Jay or Superman would have gone along with what he did.

This issue did a lot to kill the enthusiasm I had for Waid's upcoming Flash run. I'll still give it a shot, but the Inertia thing alone makes me think a lot differently about Wally than I used to.

I strongly disagree with the thoughts expressed here.

"He screamed like a little bitch" was one of the best lines in the whole issue. It shows that Inertia is completely irredeemable and sadistic. That line made Inertia more interesting in my opinion. Another poster summed it up - Inertia looks and sounds EXACTLY like your dead loved one...except he's a complete sociopath. That line cemented that - there's no reforming Inertia.

Which leads us right into Wally's punishment. It was cool. I'm sorry but it was just a really entertaining way to take out Inertia. Would people have been happier if Wally had just thrown him in jail again? I think all of Bart's fans agree that Inertia deserved something more than incarceration.

Those posters complaining that Inertia will just escape from his current imprisonment -- OF COURSE HE WILL! That's what villains do!! And how much crazier and vindictive will he be after being subjected to such a cruel and unusual punishment? I can't wait to read that story.

Then you say "But Wally would never do that!!"
I think you can make the argument that Wally was angry enough to KILL Inertia so why wouldn't he do this?
Wally does what Mark Waid tells him to do. I thought that was a great way to resolve Inertia's involvement in Bart's death.

Looking forward to the new book. I'm not even too horribly worried about the Flash's kids. With Waid at the helm we'll get an entertaining read.

The only thing I'm disappointed about in the new book is Acuna's artwork. Who actually thinks his art is a good fit for the Flash? I'm not dissing the man's style, I just think it's way innapropriate for superhero stories. He belongs on a vertigo book or something.

[Captain Jim]

Well, after an excellent final arc in Bart's book and a very touching funeral in Countdown, this issue was a bit of a letdown. It was definitely the right decision to make this a one-shot and not the first issue of Wally's new/old title. I dunno, it was well written, but the whole thing just felt very anticlimactic. And having so many different artists, with such divergent styles, did not help either. (Plus I must be the only one who doesn't care for Karl Kerschl's work.)

It feels good to have Wally back as the Flash. I reserve judgement on the aging and whatever else they did to his kids. (Why can't anyone ever age naturally in a Flash comic?)

By the way, I am very much in agreement with those who are troubled by Wally's punishment of Inertia. I didn't want him to kill (in spite of the obvious temptation), but this is hardly an improvement.

I'll give the new book a chance, but it's going to have to win me over fast, I'm afraid (no pun intended).

[shyguy]

I think all of Bart's fans agree that Inertia deserved something more than incarceration.

I'm a Bart fan, and regardless of what Inertia deserved, Wally's responsibility was to turn Inertia over to the authorities. There are certain heroes I expect to take the law into their own hands; Wally isn't one of them. Particularly in so gruesome a manner.

Then you say "But Wally would never do that!!"
I think you can make the argument that Wally was angry enough to KILL Inertia so why wouldn't he do this?

A big part of Wally's character right before he disappeared was him being pissed at all of the heroes who took the law into their own hands during the whole Dr. Light situation. I don't buy that a guy who gets that angry over some of his friends lobotomizing a rapist is - in a moment of rage - going to condemn a minor to an eternity of torture.

And frankly, regardless of how angry Wally was, I expect him to act like a hero.

[Violently Apathetic]

Which leads us right into Wally's punishment. It was cool. I'm sorry but it was just a really entertaining way to take out Inertia. Would people have been happier if Wally had just thrown him in jail again? I think all of Bart's fans agree that Inertia deserved something more than incarceration..

What exactly are you basing that on? I'm a Bart fan and I certainly didn't think Wally's punishment of Inertia was called for. I know quite a few fans of Bart who were put off by Wally's behavior in that issue. You can't really make a blanket statement declaring how all fans of a character will feel, some feel one way, others another.

There is also the fact that some of Bart's fans were, and in some cases remain, fans of Inertia. It happens.

shyguy basically said everything I wanted to (and much better than I could have managed) so I suppose I'll wander off and grumble over Flash back issues at this point.

[handOFfate]

This thread's not working right. I posted those comments three DAYS ago!

[PastePotPete]

What exactly are you basing that on? I'm a Bart fan and I certainly didn't think Wally's punishment of Inertia was called for. I know quite a few fans of Bart who were put off by Wally's behavior in that issue. You can't really make a blanket statement declaring how all fans of a character will feel, some feel one way, others another.

There is also the fact that some of Bart's fans were, and in some cases remain, fans of Inertia. It happens.

shyguy basically said everything I wanted to (and much better than I could have managed) so I suppose I'll wander off and grumble over Flash back issues at this point.

Well, I guess I'm saying - to step out of the make-believe world of the DC Universe for a minute - that it was an inventive and interesting way for Waid to end the threat of Inertia. We've all seen The Flash toss badguys in jail, and we've seen the old routine where the villain dies in the final battle, almost always as a result of his own hubris. This was better somehow because I wasn't expecting it. Waid surprised me.

When I said Bart's fans wanted to see something more than incarceration happen to Inertia, I meant that there were some fans who were almost as angry as Wally over Bart's death, so they would not have settled for one of the conclusions I mentioned above. If Wally had just taken Inertia to jail, there might have been a lot of people going "Meh, couldn't Waid have thought of something more interesting??"

Well, he did, and you're still not happy.

You say it's completely out of character. I see why you feel that way. Not an unreasonable gripe. But it didn't bother me. I like that Wally will go that far. It gives him more depth in my opinion.

[pendragon]

I'm a Bart fan, and regardless of what Inertia deserved, Wally's responsibility was to turn Inertia over to the authorities. There are certain heroes I expect to take the law into their own hands; Wally isn't one of them. Particularly in so gruesome a manner.

A big part of Wally's character right before he disappeared was him being pissed at all of the heroes who took the law into their own hands during the whole Dr. Light situation. I don't buy that a guy who gets that angry over some of his friends lobotomizing a rapist is - in a moment of rage - going to condemn a minor to an eternity of torture.

And frankly, regardless of how angry Wally was, I expect him to act like a hero.

This was Wally's family & people react different when a loved one is killed.

Also look at Waid's previous run on the Flash.

In Terminal Velocity, Wally did several questionable things.

[Violently Apathetic]

When I said Bart's fans wanted to see something more than incarceration happen to Inertia, I meant that there were some fans who were almost as angry as Wally over Bart's death, so they would not have settled for one of the conclusions I mentioned above. If Wally had just taken Inertia to jail, there might have been a lot of people going "Meh, couldn't Waid have thought of something more interesting??"

Well, he did, and you're still not happy.


I certainly agree that it was different, I can't argue with that. However I take some offense at the statement 'you're still not happy' as if, as an individual, I'm impossible to satisfy. If it’s a collective ‘you’ that’s a little more understandable. For the most part I agree that fans as a whole are difficult to please, there is rarely something that is universally accepted. However I would have been satisfied had Wally turned Inertia over to the authorities and he ultimately ended up in prison (or a mental hospital), and I happen to think making Wally do something so ugly was a serious misstep because it limits the amount of sympathy I'm able to feel for the character.

I do agree with the general sentiment that Waid took a risk doing something different and should be praised for that. However his risk did alienate some members of the fanbase and that is to be expected, you can't please everyone. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying 'I don't like this,' so long as you gave it a fair chance and aren't falling into stereotypical negative and cynical (everything sucks!) fanboy mode.

[Ian J.N.]

My thoughts on Inertia's punishment (reposted 'cause I'm lazy):

What Wally did was especially dark for the character, but I wouldn't say it's inconsistent. In the what-if scenario where Linda was murdered, Wally became a very "Dark Flash." When Hunter Zolomon was brutally crippled, Wally went gunning for Grodd's blood. Wally has entertained the idea of killing Thawne for what he did to Iris (as he admitted in the Return of Barry Allen epilogue), and lest we forget, he didn't exactly respond to Barry's death by being a model superhero. Over the past twenty years, we've seen how Wally doesn't always take the high road. When his loved ones are hurt, he's deeply affected.

Did Wally cross the line in commiting Inertia to an eternity of torture? Um, yeah, but at the same time, I can't get too worked up over what is essentially an imaginary punishment. Had Wally cracked Inertia's spine, or beaten him within an inch of his life... that would have been too much, even if, intellectually, what he actually did was much worse. I thought the punishment struck the right chord: It was befitting of the gravity of Bart's murder, uncomfortable for the reader (in a good, emotion provoking, way), and it showed a dimension rarely seen in Wally's character, but it wasn't too violent or too extreme.

Plus, you know this is going to come back to bite Wally in the behind. I'm awaiting the day Inertia becomes Zoom's reverse Kid Flash...

[Violently Apathetic]

Breaking Inertia's back actually wouldn't have been as bad, IMHO. I mean Bart almost casually broke both his rival’s legs during the Titans East storyline and thought almost nothing of it. Even if he didn't heal quickly I think snapping someone's spine is less dark than mentally torturing them for (what you believe to be) eternity. VISUALLY it would have been more disturbing (which is likely what you meant, but I feel like being obtuse today), but still...that feels like taking the easy way out, making your hero do something unquestionably dark but in such a way the true horror of the action is not really explored, lest it repel the readers.


Plus, you know this is going to come back to bite Wally in the behind. I'm awaiting the day Inertia becomes Zoom's reverse Kid Flash...

That was actually one of my first thoughts, I want to see Zoom come along, pull Inertia out and attempt to take him under his wing somehow. It probably wouldn't work the way Hunter expects (I can actually see Thad using Hunter before the other way around) but it would be fun.

[Ian J.N.]

but still...that feels like taking the easy way out, making your hero do something unquestionably dark but in such a way the true horror of the action is not really explored, lest it repel the readers.
I get what you're saying, but it seems like a no-win situation. Having Wally cart Bart's MURDERER off to jail as he would any other criminal just wouldn't cut it, but the Flash isn't a dark hero and, right now, the title can't explore the consequences of Wally doling out an extreme punishment. (The new status quo is needing to be established.)

I think Waid managed to walk the tightrope. Inertia's punishment is harsh, but it's more novel than it is violent, and All-Flash was able to end on a "look to the future" happy note without feeling inappropriate. I guess that's a matter of opinion, though.

If it helps, Wally eventually cooled down and turned Inertia in to the authorities. After a prolonged trial, Inertia was sentenced to be a living statue in the Flash museum. :)

[Violently Apathetic]

Fair enough, that makes sense. You and your 'logic'...

If it helps, Wally eventually cooled down and turned Inertia in to the authorities. After a prolonged trial, Inertia was sentenced to be a living statue in the Flash museum. :)

...Damn creative sentencing! They could have used him as a coat rack somewhere so he was at least benefitting society during his 'incarceration'.

[shyguy]

Having Wally cart Bart's MURDERER off to jail as he would any other criminal just wouldn't cut it (...)

I don't see why not. Not only is it the right thing to do (Inertia doesn't deserve an eternity of torture for what he did), it would have made sense from a dramatic perspective. Rather than the punishment Wally doles out, we see him struggle with his anger, remember the objections he had to what the Justice League did to Dr. Light, and rather than do what he did to Inertia, use his powers to simply remove Inertia's super-speed and then turn him over to the authorities. He might also think of his own children - how would Wally feel if some superhero thought (wrongly or rightly) that one of his twins were involved in a murder, and took it upon himself to toss the kid into the Phantom Zone or something?

This wasn't a spur of the moment thing; neither Wally nor anybody else was in any immediate danger because of Inertia. Wally acted purely out of anger and a desire for vengeance.

[pendragon]

This wasn't a spur of the moment thing; neither Wally nor anybody else was in any immediate danger because of Inertia. Wally acted purely out of anger and a desire for vengeance.

But that's typicaly what one does when a loved one is killed.

[Buried Alien]

Before making an important decision, Wally probably often asks himself, "What would Barry do?"

What *would* Barry have done if he were in Wally's position?

I gather Barry would likely have done the same thing.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[BeastieRunner]

Before making an important decision, Wally probably often asks himself, "What would Barry do?"

What *would* Barry have done if he were in Wally's position?

I gather Barry would likely have done the same thing.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I concur with that statement.

[Walter West]

Barry would have mindwiped Inertia, and since there was so much to wipe, Inertia would be a drooling moron by the time the wipe was completed. :D

[Ian J.N.]

I don't see why not. Not only is it the right thing to do (Inertia doesn't deserve an eternity of torture for what he did), it would have made sense from a dramatic perspective. Rather than the punishment Wally doles out, we see him struggle with his anger, remember the objections he had to what the Justice League did to Dr. Light, and rather than do what he did to Inertia, use his powers to simply remove Inertia's super-speed and then turn him over to the authorities. He might also think of his own children - how would Wally feel if some superhero thought (wrongly or rightly) that one of his twins were involved in a murder, and took it upon himself to toss the kid into the Phantom Zone or something?
The thing is, this isn't about Wally. This is about Bart, or rather, it's about gratifying the Bart fans. We want characters—his replacement, especially—to be deeply affected by his death, and we want his killer to PAY for what he did. Wally choosing "the right thing to do" over avenging Bart, giving Inertia a run of the mill prison sentence... that's not very satisfying.

The conflict you describe, I'd like to see down the road. Wally wrestles with the morality of the punishment and re-animates Inertia, willing to accept whatever consequences arise. Since the idea is similar to when Wally restored the Top's mind, maybe Thad becomes the Top's new body. Double whammy.

[shyguy]

But that's typicaly what one does when a loved one is killed.

What a normal person would want to do, sure. But I expect more from someone who's supposed to be a hero. If that's the kind of person Wally is, then I have no interest in reading about him.

[Captain Jim]

But that's typicaly what one does when a loved one is killed.

I'm not so sure I buy that. That's one's normal inclination, sure, but your statement seems to imply that no one is capable of controling themself and doing what is right. I'm sure there are many grief-stricken policemen who could contest that claim. And Wally should be at least as good as they are.

[jadrax]

Barry would have mindwiped Inertia, and since there was so much to wipe, Inertia would be a drooling moron by the time the wipe was completed. :D

Nah Neck Snap from behind. ;o)

I think the whole situation has interesting ethical properties, and it would be nice to see them explored at some point.

It's not the first time, or last time, it will happen either. In fact the whole concept of Superheros has them taking the law into there own hands and acting outside the system.

General Elling being put in the asteroid belt comes to mind here, as does freezing Triumph.

Legally obviously it is muddy as hell. Does California have the death sentence? If so is Inertia a minor, technically he's not even been born yet? If you transported and tried him in his time what would the punishment be? If you put him in prison would he escape in a day, would he get killed in day? Do clones even count as human?

Ethically it's could even less clear cut. Its very easy to argue that Wally may have saved Inertia's life, as I doubt the authorities, when dealing with a superhumanly fast cop killer, would/could do anything other than use lethal force.

Finally we have no really way of knowing what inertia is experiencing, if he's frozen in real time is pretty horrific, if he's thinking at the speed hes moving he could get freed in a decades time and only think 10 seconds have passed. And lets face it, being made to look at something for ten seconds isn't exactly traumatic.

[The Shadow]

Quick question... is this a mini series on an ongoing series?

Thanks!!

[kalorama]

Ethically it's could even less clear cut. Its very easy to argue that Wally may have saved Inertia's life, as I doubt the authorities, when dealing with a superhumanly fast cop killer, would/could do anything other than use lethal force.

That may have been the case if the cops were forced to apprehend Inertia themselves. But that's not really relevant to the existing situation, given that Wally had already stopped and contained him. The authorities just needed to hold onto him after Wally turned him over.

[Captain Jim]

Quick question... is this a mini series on an ongoing series?

Thanks!!

Quick answer...it's a one-shot. Flash #231 follows on Aug. 15.

[The Shadow]

Quick answer...it's a one-shot. Flash #231 follows on Aug. 15.

Huh.

Thanks!

I just bought it but haven't read it yet.

[TheNemesis]

Does anyone else find it odd that Barry would show up on more than one occasion to help Wally but not to prevent Bart's death at the hands of the Rogues? Other than this small complaint I've enjoyed Guggenheim's FMA and Waid's All Flash #1.

[jv2k]

He didn't even know who Bart was.

[Kerny]

i just read the issue and liked it, especially the Karl Kerschl art. I read somewhere that Iris was hinting of Wally's kid being the next Batman. I sure didn't pick that up from reading did you guys?

[Kelson]

i just read the issue and liked it, especially the Karl Kerschl art. I read somewhere that Iris was hinting of Wally's kid being the next Batman. I sure didn't pick that up from reading did you guys?

There was a panel in the last two teaser pages showing a Batman costume coming out of a ring, like the classic Flash costume ring. A very small version of that appeared in a close-up of Iris' eye when Wally asked if she remembered anything else interesting about their future.

There are a lot of different ways that can be interpreted, though.

[Kerny]

There was a panel in the last two teaser pages showing a Batman costume coming out of a ring, like the classic Flash costume ring. A very small version of that appeared in a close-up of Iris' eye when Wally asked if she remembered anything else interesting about their future.

There are a lot of different ways that can be interpreted, though.
See I didn't even notice the batsuit in her eye panel, and at first glance on the last page I didn't even think that was the batsuit,lol I got to start paying more attention to detail.