The preemptive, spoiler-laden Harry Potter thread

[Roquefort Raider]

This thread is meant, as its title so astutely suggests, for discussions about the last Harry Potter novel.

Spoilers are allowed.

People who read beyond this point won't get another warning and won't have any reason to complain.

[Roquefort Raider]

Well, maybe another warning. I know how I sometimes skip a few posts...


SPOILERS AHEAD!!!




SPOILERS AHEAD!!!




DON'T READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU DON'T WANT YOUR ENJOYMENT OF HARRY POTTER AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS TO BE SPOILED BY UNTIMELY REVELATIONS!

[Roquefort Raider]

But just in case the warning above came across as unduly harsh, please let me invite you cordially to discuss the book at your earliest convenience.

[Anna]

Emma was on Access Hollywood last night, (I was in the next room listening but not watching) she said that she usually bought her own copies of the Potter books, but was sent an early copy of Deathly Hallows. They cut back to the guy in the studio who says Hermoine does not die, but marries Ron. He could have been making that up.

[Expletive Deleted]

This fellow (http://mightygodking.livejournal.com/343960.html) has a thorough chapter-by-chapter summary of the book, with extensive commentary.

Long story short, Voldemort offs himself trying to kill Harry, then there's a "nineteen years later" epilogue where everyone is married with kids. None of the main characters die, although the secondary and tertiary cast gets thinned out quite a bit.

[Jonathan Bogart]

This fellow (http://mightygodking.livejournal.com/343960.html) has a thorough chapter-by-chapter summary of the book, with extensive commentary.

Long story short, Voldemort offs himself trying to kill Harry, then there's a "nineteen years later" epilogue where everyone is married with kids.
Thanks! Now I'll never have to read the books!

[Thorlief]

Daniel Radcliffe on Vanity Fair: "I was on stage and David (Hyman) asked Joanne about all the troubles she went through after Dumbledore's death
"Wasnt he dead?" he said and she replied "My dear, things are much much more complicated than this"

w00t, I fully expect Dumbledore to return now. HE HAS to.

[Subotai]

So, does it meet expectations?

[Expletive Deleted]

Thanks! Now I'll never have to read the books!Nobody's forcing you to read the spoiler thread, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Bogart]

Nobody's forcing you to read the spoiler thread, Jonathan.
I wasn't being sarcastic.

[Expletive Deleted]

Ah. Nevermind, then.

[Karl J Barnes]

This fellow (http://mightygodking.livejournal.com/343960.html) has a thorough chapter-by-chapter summary of the book, with extensive commentary.

Long story short, Voldemort offs himself trying to kill Harry, then there's a "nineteen years later" epilogue where everyone is married with kids. None of the main characters die, although the secondary and tertiary cast gets thinned out quite a bit.

The commentary of the book was quite brilliant. I think, his recapping of events were funny,insightful(at times) and just a blast to read.

[Anna]

Keep in mind that every set of spoilers to be posted is saying something different.

[OzBat!]

Some of the spoiler sites actually contradict themselves, let alone each other. So I won't bother until the book itself is out.

[Gordon Smith]

Some of the spoiler sites actually contradict themselves, let alone each other. So I won't bother until the book itself is out.

I'm just gonna read the commentary on the book and never bother with looking at the actual novel itself...what was the title of that thing again?

[rick]

Keep in mind that every set of spoilers to be posted is saying something different.


I have seen the screen shots of the final pages and they do seem to go along with what this guy was describing.

[Roquefort Raider]

I'm just gonna read the commentary on the book and never bother with looking at the actual novel itself...what was the title of that thing again?

Thank Buddha!!! I am not alone!!!

[drwho]

So if Voldemart dies than how do they break the connection between Harry and him? The one that says one cant die as long as the other lives. I think it is hilarious though that the company that shipped the books early is requesting people not to open them.

[Jmacq1]

The prophecy wasn't "One cannot die so long as the other lives."

It was "Neither can survive while the other lives."

In other words, one of them getting killed is the only way the other can truly "live." (Presumably figuratively for Harry, literally for Voldemort).

[Karl J Barnes]

I'm just gonna read the commentary on the book and never bother with looking at the actual novel itself...what was the title of that thing again?

Harry Potter and The Gouging of Wallets?

[literally exaggerated]

Looks like everything's gonna play out exactly as I, and a good 2/3rds of the fanbase, guessed they would right after reading HBP.

[DHX]

well i'm actually pretty glad i read the commentary if the book is only a tenth as bad as the commentary makes out i no longer have the desire nor the need to buy the book

[OzBat!]

Well, having read the book, while a lot could be considered formulaic, there were some genuine curveballs in there that made it a rollicking good read. It wrapped up the series pretty well, I thought.

[GremlinClr]

So I made a few predictions in another thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=78665&page=2) before the book came out. Let's see how I did.

1) Harry is a horcrux, but an accidental one.
Yep.

2) It will also be revealed in book 7 that Harry is last surviving heir of Godric Gryffindor.
Nope.

3) Snape was in love with Lily Evans.
Yep.

Well, according to Meatloaf, 2 of 3 ain't bad. On another board I also predicted Hufflepuffs cup was in Gringotts and Ravenclaws horcrux was in the headmasters office. So 1 of 2 there.


There were some things I didn't like about the book.

Snape went out like a bitch, I expected him to help Harry defeat Voldemort.

We don't even get to see how Remus and Tonks die (unless I missed it, I was reading pretty fast).

I didn't care for the fanwank "let Harry talk to the Marauders, his Mom and Dumbledore" at the end but I can forgive that.

I also expected more from Wormtails death.



But Neville gets to be a bad ass, that was awesome. And Mrs. Weasley, after loosing one child snaps and out duels Bellatrix.

As much as I hate the movies for screwing up the great scenes in the books I can't wait to see what they do with this one.

[Jmacq1]

Yeah, that was pretty much my thought as I read the book:

"This one's gonna be one hell of a movie!"

I'll be curious to see where they make their cuts though...it seems like nearly everything ends up being fairly important to the plot.

Seriously, almost every chapter seems like it has some kind of long-standing secret revealed, or further bit of information that ends up funnelling into the end of the story.

[literally exaggerated]

That was awesome. My only complaint was with how quickly it ended after the climas. A chapter set right after the death of Voldemort just explaining what happened in the weeks to come, and another few pages on to the epilogue commenting on what other characters are doing, jobs, etc, would have done the book a world of good, IMO.

But still, I can't believe so many people are so pissed about it.

Things that were awesome:

-Dumbledore's past, family, etc. Dumbledore became a LOT more interesting in this one. Its interesting that he only ever really becomes a complex, full character post mortem, but I'm glad he did. The stuff with Grindelwald was really cool.

-House elves. As someone whose hated all of them before this book, Dobby's death was the most moving scene of the books, and in general the elves were badass.

-the Voldemort regime. The parts about changes wrought in the world ruled by Voldemort, especially the totally banally evil Ministry and Lee Jordan's Potterwatch, were really cool. As ever JKR has a knack for the small details that bring a setting to life instantly.

-Neville. Neville is easily the most badass member of Harry's year. When he showed up, all battered, renegade fugitive, and then later with the sword pulled out of the hat while it was on fire...dayumn. I've never been a big Neville fan before, but he's awesome now.

-Harry's sacrifice. Even though I knew he wouldn't die, when Harry walked forward, with full knowledge and totally willing to die, it was fantastic.

-Molly Weasely kills Bellatrix in her face. 'Nuff said.

-Snape. I predicted every single piece of it. Didn't care. Wish he had been in it more, but the Prince's tale more than kept me happy.

-the Battle of Hogwarts. In fact, pretty much all of the action scenes, from the opening chase onwards. But especially the final battle.

[Jmacq1]

People are pissed about it?

I thought it was fantastic, really. Certainly some of the characters that they chose to kill might not have been the same choices I would have made, but I think the "anger" might be more of a combination of things, like:

Being upset the series is over.

Being upset that one's pet theories didn't make the cut.

Being upset that (insert favorite shipping option here) didn't come about.

I do definitely agree that I would've liked to have seen a little bit more of the immediate aftermath of the battle, and a little bit more of an "update" on some of the more secondary characters in the epilogue.

[OzBat!]

When it comes to the movie, they'll compress all those camping scenes into one or two. They'll probably combine the 7 potters/wedding scenes, so the damage done, death of that particular order member etc will still take place. That's my guess, anywho.

[Michael P]

People are pissed about it?


Some people are stupid gits.

[Michael P]

In other news, I was surprised that she gave the whole thing a definite timeline.

[DHX]

its right at the end that kills it voldemort went out like a bitch. after all of the build up.

[kmeyers]

Yeah, that was awesome. All of it. Tied everything together very nicely.

I really don't see why any fans would be angry about the way this ended...and although J.K. Rowling has said this will be the last Potter book, she's totally set it up for a whole other series of books, if she wants to. Something tells me she will, and I hope she does.

[atoningunifex]

I thought it was an excellent end to the series. I liked how she pretty much tied everything up. I was quite sad that my second favorite character in the series died, but I was totally psyched that my favorite character, Neville, got to be totally hardcore.

It made me happy. And it made me want to read all the books over again.

[Mister Mets]

Random thoughts....

I enjoyed the book immensely (having read it all since waking up at 7AM.) I had read the epilogue when it was posted on another thread as a possible spoiler, but I had enjoyed that the first time around, so it didn't ruin anything (plus, I didn't know that was the real epilogue until I turned the page to
"Nineteen Years Later.")


I thought it was a bit odd that Harry didn't mention what he learned about Snape before he went off to die, as it would have meant that Snape's heroism would have gone unknown.
I loved the backstory of Dumbledore & Snape.
Lots of good death scenes.

I think the execution of the offscreen deaths was a bit flawed in that I was left with the impression that I had missed a few pages.

With the deaths of Snape, Remus and even Remus's wife, pretty much everyone from James Potter's circle is dead. Lucius Malfoy seems to be the only survivor from that generation, and I doubt he had any major links to them.

It's an interesting way to end the series, as Harry becomes completely unburdened by his parents' legacy.


It makes sense for Harry to have ties to Ted Tonks at the end, as Harry was his godfather. But the kid was probably raised by his grandmother (can't see 17 year old Harry & 16 year old Ginny adopting.)

[Michael P]

I can't help but wonder if Harry, Hermione and Ron went back to school the next year and finished their NEWTs.

[Adriel]

Well...

That was amazing, I'd have to say.

I'd never even considered that Hedwig could die, and that was like a punch in the stomach to me! I read that part like four times to make sure I read it correctly.

Also, the action: Amazing!

Plot: Amazing!

Dumbledore reveals: That was a wild ride! Seriously!

Also, the little bits of wizard cultures that snuck in, like the storybook, were cool. Maybe JK Rowling could write that storybook for real. I'd get it.

[kmeyers]

its right at the end that kills it voldemort went out like a bitch. after all of the build up.

Why would you say that? Voldemort overestimated himself with his extreme ego, yet again. He thought he was so much better, but in the end he wasn't at all.

In the end, Tom Riddle was totally alone and surrounded by a group of people, who if Harry hadn't said anything, would have all attacked him. But Harry broke him down all by himself, scared the crap out of him, and deflected Voldemort's own killing curse right back at him once again, only this time Harry was deflecting it on purpose, fighting him back. For the last time.

[Ring Slinger]

Just finished it-- got my copy just before 9 in this morning's mail and read all day.

Things that intrigued me:
1. Dumbledore is essentially a villain as much as Voldemort-- his constant manipulation of events, his using Harry as a pawn, all in the name of "the greater good." He essentially "redeems" himself in the end and we understand why he did every thing he did, but it's still repulsing in its own way.

2. I expected a little more from Wormtail-- I totally did not believe the junk about "life debts" that the kids from Mugglenet were harping on (and spent far too much time writing about in their book WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN HARRY POTTER 7?), instead believing in a more Gollum-like sacrifice, but I think the point was made. A moment's hesitation from Wormtail was all that was needed to save Harry's life.

3. The role of the Deathly Hallows was intriguing-- instead of prevented Harry's direct death as I think the readers were led to believe, they instead enabled his final defeat of Voldemort. Interesting twist.

4. I really hope JKR publishes an appendix book or something in the line of the two "Harry Potter Schoolbooks" about famous wizards from her world. I want to know more about what happened to some of the characters-- especially Luna!!

5. Hugo?????

[kmeyers]

Just finished it-- got my copy just before 9 in this morning's mail and read all day.

Things that intrigued me:
1. Dumbledore is essentially a villain as much as Voldemort-- his constant manipulation of events, his using Harry as a pawn, all in the name of "the greater good." He essentially "redeems" himself in the end and we understand why he did every thing he did, but it's still repulsing in its own way.


I think the fact that Dumbledore is repulsed by what he did, and goes so far as to compare himself to Voldemort(when talking to Harry) shows the difference between the two.

Voldemort was never repulsed by anything he ever did. Even worse he enjoyed it. I think that's a pretty big difference. Dumbledore at least meant well with his manipulations...which were almost necessary.

edit: Oh yeah, Neville totally kicked ass the entire book. He took over Harry's place as the leader of Dumbledore's Army for Hogwarts.

Even though he was in the background for the first half of the story, we still hear about them trying to steal the sword.

Then when we finally see him, he's all beat up and he's a true leader and we get to hear about all he's done, and what he's endured.

Then, in the final battle, Neville (and his grandma kicks ass!)does his family SO proud.

[ImpulseUCF]

Great book, fitting end. I was deathly afraid for Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. I was afraid one of them would end up dead and was delighted they weren't. I don't know if the other deaths in the Hogwart's battle softened the blow, but I wasn't as upset as I thought I might be by the deaths of Lupin and Tonks.

I thought it dragged a bit in the middle with all of the camping and, though necessary, the isolation from Hogwarts and the wizarding world at large hurt the overall atmosphere and feel of the book. I suppose it was supposed to be that way, but I was glad I was right in my prediction; I knew it had to end at Hogwarts. Sadly, I also knew there were too many Weasley's and figured killing one of the twins would be sufficiently brutal. Sigh.

The end was great! Harry's sacrifice, his conversation with Dumbledore (what do you make of that? Harry's, Dumbledore's, and Voldie's souls?), Mrs. Weasley... did she actually kill Bellatrix? I was pretty out of it from reading, but I don't remember it stating what curse she used.

My only major nitpicks?

I wanted more epilogue for the other charactres. I wanted to know what happened immediately after the battle, what happened with the Weasley's, wanted to see Harry's reuninon with Ginny, see them restore the wizarding world, etc. Still, though, based on the epilogue and the great relationships and closeness of everyone, all of that was implied and left the specifics up to the reader.

I wonder what Harry does as an adult. Ah, well. Great, great ending. It had me gushing and beaming like an idiot.

[kmeyers]

Great book, fitting end. I was deathly afraid for Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. I was afraid one of them would end up dead and was delighted they weren't. I don't know if the other deaths in the Hogwart's battle softened the blow, but I wasn't as upset as I thought I might be by the deaths of Lupin and Tonks.
I really was, I liked those two. I would have liked to know how they went out, though.


I thought it dragged a bit in the middle with all of the camping and, though necessary, the isolation from Hogwarts and the wizarding world at large hurt the overall atmosphere and feel of the book. I suppose it was supposed to be that way, but I was glad I was right in my prediction; I knew it had to end at Hogwarts. Sadly, I also knew there were too many Weasley's and figured killing one of the twins would be sufficiently brutal. Sigh.
She fooled me, I thought there were too many Weasly's as well, but I figured with one of them missing an ear the other should be pretty safe, whoops. I loved that Percy came back. That was a great death scene with him and Fred.


The end was great! Harry's sacrifice, his conversation with Dumbledore (what do you make of that? Harry's, Dumbledore's, and Voldie's souls?), Mrs. Weasley... did she actually kill Bellatrix? I was pretty out of it from reading, but I don't remember it stating what curse she used.
I'm sure Harry narrated that the two were obviously dueling to the death. I'm pretty sure Mrs. Weasly hit Bellatrix right in the heart with something deadly. It said Bellatrix stopped and realized for a moment what happened before she fell. I don't think it said specifically what curse it was, but they were fighting for blood.

She wouldn't stop cackling madly for anything besides death, I'd imagine.


My only major nitpicks?

I wanted more epilogue for the other charactres. I wanted to know what happened immediately after the battle, what happened with the Weasley's, wanted to see Harry's reuninon with Ginny, see them restore the wizarding world, etc. Still, though, based on the epilogue and the great relationships and closeness of everyone, all of that was implied and left the specifics up to the reader.

I wonder what Harry does as an adult. Ah, well. Great, great ending. It had me gushing and beaming like an idiot.

There will be more Harry Potter books. The Epilogue has set it all up. There are so many more stories to be told.

[ImpulseUCF]

I really was, I liked those two. I would have liked to know how they went out, though.Oh, don't get me wrong. I was upset, but it wasn't the kick in the gut others had been.

There will be more Harry Potter books. The Epilogue has set it all up. There are so many more stories to be told.I don't know. I think she's told the story she has to tell as far as Harry Potter is concerned. I wouldn't rule out a prequel or spin-off, such as Dumbledore's life, but I will be very surprised if we get a direct sequel. Harry's story is complete, and I'd really hate to reopen to add more to it. I think it would be forced, and I don't think J.K. has any more to say on it.

I just want to know what already happened. Fill in the gaps between the night of the duel and, oh, 19 years later. :P

[kmeyers]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I was upset, but it wasn't the kick in the gut others had been.
I don't know. I think she's told the story she has to tell as far as Harry Potter is concerned. I wouldn't rule out a prequel or spin-off, such as Dumbledore's life, but I will be very surprised if we get a direct sequel. Harry's story is complete, and I'd really hate to reopen to add more to it. I think it would be forced, and I don't think J.K. has any more to say on it.

I just want to know what already happened. Fill in the gaps between the night of the duel and, oh, 19 years later. :P

Right, well, there's you're sequel.

But also she can start off 19 years later, and a New Order of the Phoenix must be formed for some other even more dangerous threat.

I definitely don't think J.K. is finished playing in her sandbox. She's got way too many sandcastles to build.

[kmeyers]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I was upset, but it wasn't the kick in the gut others had been.


You're right. Dobby hit me harder. I was surprised, but he did.

[Frodo-X]

Loved it.

Saddest for me was Dobby. Followed by Fred, as I always liked the twins. And Hedwig, oddly enough, really hit hard. Felt bad about Lupin & Tonks since they'd just got together and started a family, but for some reason it wasn't as big a jolt.

I rather liked how Severus went out.

I must admit, I was fooled. I thought for sure the Doe Patronus was Ginny's, having changed to go with Harry's Stag.

Surprised Harry's eyes, so like his mother's, didn't play a larger role.

Only thing that disappointed me was the Epilogue. Yeah, I liked it, but I would've liked more mention of what happened to George with Fred gone, or if Harry and his family live at Grimmauld Place and still have Kreacher (or a descendant of Kreacher), or what any of them do for a living besides Neville.

But still...Loved. It.

[kmeyers]

Loved it.

Only thing that disappointed me was the Epilogue. Yeah, I liked it, but I would've liked more mention of what happened to George with Fred gone, or if Harry and his family live at Grimmauld Place and still have Kreacher (or a descendant of Kreacher), or what any of them do for a living besides Neville.

But still...Loved. It.

I thought it was great in the epilogue when one of the kids was wonering why everyone was staring at them and Ron said, "Don't worry, its me. I'm extremely famous!"

[Frodo-X]

Oh, and a couple other thoughts regarding what was supposed to happen:

The last word was not 'scar'. Not a nitpick, as it isn't even remotely important, just thought it was interesting.

And, I thought we were supposed to find out what the Dementors made Dudley see?

[kmeyers]

Oh, and a couple other thoughts regarding what was supposed to happen:

The last word was not 'scar'. Not a nitpick, as it isn't even remotely important, just thought it was interesting.

And, I thought we were supposed to find out what the Dementors made Dudley see?

Well, scar was in the last few sentences before the epilogue.

I think the Dementors made Dudley see the light. He really did care a about Harry. He just didn't know how to express it 'till the end of their story.

[1WEBHEAD]

WHat happens to Harry, Hermione and Ron?

How does voldemort off himself?

[Erebus]

Awesome book. Just finished it 20 minutes ago.

I thought the final battle between Riddle and Harry was kind of confusing. I had to reread it a couple times before I understood that the Elder Wand didn't have to be present with the owner when defeated. And wow, so many people dead. Tonks, Lupin, Dobby, Hedwig, Fred, Moody, and at least 50 nameless.

[twilight]

Of course two of my favourite characters would be killed!
R.I.P. Fred Weasley
R.I.P. Remus Lupin

I loved it.
I hope there's more stuff in the future.

All the deaths absolutely broke my heart and I'm really suprised Hagrid wasn't one of them.

[Ring Slinger]

Oh, and a couple other thoughts regarding what was supposed to happen:

The last word was not 'scar'. Not a nitpick, as it isn't even remotely important, just thought it was interesting.

And, I thought we were supposed to find out what the Dementors made Dudley see?

JKR said in recent interviews that she had changed the last word so that it was no longer "scar."

I was pretty sure it was said as well that we'd find out what Dudley saw and that a Squib would use magic late in life-- neither seemed to happen.

By the way, I LOVED Kreacher!!

[Sheldon]

Kreacher was one of the nice surprises. I liked the book. The pace was quick and you could feel it hurtling towards the conclusion. I enjoyed Neville taking charge at Hogwarts and how his grandma joining the fray. Many of the spoilers were already guessed at. In hindsight it is amazing how JK makes things pretty clear in the early books but still weaves a wonderful tapestry around it. LEarning more about Grindlewald and Dumbledore was excellent.

[Jazzy Jay]

Just finished it, and although I had a few annoyances I'm pretty satisfied with how it ended.

Some Favorite Moments:

- The Dursleys departing from the house. Perfectly understated, with Dudley giving him a handshake and Petunia just telling him goodbye.

- Any of Ron's one-liners.

- The camping scenes. They were kind of a chore to get through, but Rowling did an excellent job of portraying the anxiety and frustration the kids were feeling. Can you imagine your friends and family fighting a war while you're meandering aimlessly through the countryside? I thought the way they reacted- especially Ron- was believable.

- The Battle of Hogwarts. Pretty much what we had all been waiting for and it didn't disappoint. I was really pleased we got to see all the old fringe characters (Parvati, Seamus, etc.) one last time, and hell, even Trelawney pitched in. This scene is going to look amazing on screen.

I wasn't really a huge fan of the whole Snape/Lily thing, but it did make sense. The epilogue was kind of cheesy, but I'm glad the characters got their happy endings. I was also really bummed out that Fred died- I kind of wish George died too, because separating them is just plain weird. Other than that I can't really complain.

[Inkthinker]

Well, that was fun.

It ends nicely, wraps up most of the plot, and generally speaking everyone ends up more or less as they deserve. I'm personally happy that both theories to which I subscribed were born out; that Snape was made to kill Dumbledore because Dumbledore was already dying (hence DD's final words to Snape), and that Harry would die, only to be resurrected and triumph (well, partly right, he doesn't really die but he stands at the border, quite literally, and makes a conscious choice to return to life).

Plenty, PLENTY of room left for expansion on the franchise. J.K. Rowling may be done with this, but I'm pretty sure it won't be long before the Harry Potter Expanded Universe is being developed and built upon by other authors. Heck, she even leaves a nice fat gap to tell other stories about Harry & Co., although the "Nineteen Years Later" epilogue pretty much kills any direct threat to the majority of the characters we've come to know and love.

Overall, I rather liked it. It was a pretty good series of books.

[Adam West]

I like it, a nice wrap up to the story so far. I'm kinda sad that there're no more Potter books to wait for.

This book is quite depressing though, bar for the end when Harry triumph. The lack of humour (which is the direct effect of very little time for Fred and George) kinda get me in the middle of the book. Especially with Harry, Ron and Hermione are under constant strain to find and destroy the horcruxes. I dont know whether Rowling did it on purpose because it's a war afterall.

Fred died kinda sucks, but 9 Weasleys and all survive is kinda streching it. Besides Molly get to kicked Bellatrix ass, which is worth it.

Minor gripe:
- the continuity goofs where Hermione said she never did Memory Charm when Harry told her to modify 2 DE that they just beat. While early in the book she said that she modify her parents memory to assume new identity and move away to be safe.
- Ron speaking parseltongue.

[Puma]

Finished it last night after an 8 hr marathon.

My first thoughts were on how many were killed, Hedwig-Dobby-Remus-Tonks-Fred-Snape, and that this is not a happy book. This morning though I thought on how they died; all but poor Hedwig died doing what had to be done, nothing grandly heroic, just the quiet heroism of standing up against a world gone wrong. Rowling's didn't immortalize death she made it a part of life, not something to fear but something that happens to good and bad alike; it's the choices one makes leading up to death that matter.

With that came the understanding about Severus. I found Snape's death to be frustrating until now. Up until his death I really believed Snape would die to save Harry, instead I find he gave his life, his entire adult life, by choosing to risk it for Harry. A far more heroic act.

As for Neville, I'm glad he survived, glad he found himself, and very glad he went back to Hogwarts.

But I have two questions: if a patronus is so hard to conjure why does it seem damn near everyone can produce one? and, where's Crookshanks? I'm glad he didn't die but did he immigrate to Oz as well?

[Michael P]

Surprised Harry's eyes, so like his mother's, didn't play a larger role.


Well, it wasn't a large role, but when Snape asked Harry to look at him as he died, I figured it was because he wanted Lily's eyes to be the last thing he saw.

And am I the only person who *doesn't* want more Harry Potter books?

[sephirothskiller]

I think I'm the only one who REALLY didn't like the book.

I found that the final duel with Voldemort was forced, and after ages of wondering how Harry would beat someone with so much more skill and power than him in a duel (which is why I hoped it wouldn't be a duel) the answer was "because it was convienient to the plot." I felt that there was very little reason for the Avada Kedavra to backfire the way it did. I had hoped that Harry might win by overpowering him in some sort of a raw battle of the energy's of good and evil or something significant to the "love conquers" theme, but that didn't happen so much. The whole idea of "I died for these people so they're all protected" reeeealy seemed a bit of a stretch for me. I think if sacrificing yourself for an entire army was possible it would have gained a bit more noteriety.

The epilogue was horrible for me for a number of reasons, mainly because it felt like fanfiction, everyone was so happy and full of happy banter. The names were over the top, (particularly the Severus part,) and I fell off my bed when I read "scorpius." Basically I felt that the series which was about anything being able to happen suddenly was about something else. It very much reminded me of the conclusion to Silas Marner where Eppie says: "O Father, what a pretty home ours is! I think nobody could be happier than we are!" I much would have preferred that the epilogue dealt with the immediate aftermath and left what happened to Harry afterwards to the minds of those who read it. Harry Potter was so successful only because of how it sparked the imagination of children, and while that spark wasn't there out of necessity throughout the book, I really felt that it was doused at the end rather than re-ignited.

I also felt that the "camping adventure" part dragged on rather too long, and would have liked to have seen more focus on Neville's exploits and on Potterwatch, as those were by far some of the most fascinating points of the story.

And why could Molly beat Bellatrix? We've seen no signs that Molly was capable of this, (and with a killing curse?) and yet Bellatrix we know has been able to defeat two Aurors at once. I would have felt better if Neville had done the job.

Everything with Neville was awesome. I would not be surprised if Rowling ends up with a Neville-centric book. I Would have liked to see more action from Ginny as well. Felt that Luna ended up being a bit of a waste of space. (The Friend painting was cool and all, but that was it for me.)

EDIT: Did anybody find it odd that there were several moments where Harry and alcohol went together in a way... Possibly not fitting for a child or even a preteen/early teen to read?

[Solaris]

According to the wikipedia entry on it, Voldemort's death was the result of Harry being a horocrux. When Voldemort tried to kill baby Harry and the spell backfired to him, it apparently jolted a fragment of Voldemort's soul loose... which migrated to Harry, since he was the closest living thing.

Further, when Voldemort used some of Harry's blood to give himself a new body, it somehow meant that if he attacked Harry after that, it would be his own soul fragment inside Harry which would die, not Harry.

Lame? IMO, yes. With all the buildup Rowling had given the "final confrontation," I hoped for more originality.

And no, I haven't read the book yet---just the wiki entry. Rowling killed a lot of my enthusiasm for the series with "The Order of the Phoenix,"... and that's extended to the movies as well. The only part of that book that I truly enjoyed was when Fred and George rebelled against Umbridge.

As to the "happily ever after" epilogue... that does sound very "canned." I really don't see Draco Malfoy changing all that much; and honestly, if I'm looking to the future, while it's nice to know about the marriages and children, I'm much more interested in what kind of jobs, etc. the various kids took up when they were grown. Neville as herbology instructor is pretty neat---but did Harry ever become an Auror? Instructor of Defense Against the Dark Arts? (TBH, that one's perfect for him.) Who became Headmaster? What did Hermione and Ron end up doing?

And yes, one does wonder a bit about Molly Weasley defeating Bellatrix...

[Jmacq1]

Voldemort's death didn't bother me in the least. It always seemed pretty clear that he was going to be plot-deviced into defeat. That's the way most mega-villains go out...undone by their own arrogance and/or ignorance, not defeated in a straight-up fight. Personally I would have found it ridiculous if Harry had outright overpowered Voldemort one-on-one. Besides, the build-up to those final moments was epic.

Molly beating Bellatrix? Not surprising (except for it not being Neville)...Molly was in "berserker mode" at that point.

I would've liked more info on the epilogue (as noted above), but it basically amounted to a five (or so) page "Happily Ever After." I didn't see Malfoy's "curt nod" as a complete reversal of character...just that he'd begrudgingly accepted the way things turned out and god forbid become a bit less of a jerk as he grew up. With Lucius humbled and Voldemort gone (and likely the Malfoy family losing most/all of its' political influence due to those events) it's not so surprising that things might have gone differently for the Malfoys.

I'm in the camp that says "There aren't likely to be any more Harry Potter sequels."

I think there's lots of room for a prequels (either the life and times of Dumbledore or perhaps the original Order of the Phoenix), or adventures set in different parts of the same "world" (for instance perhaps a story centered around a different wizarding school or another part of the world entirely). The only problem with prequels is that we already basically know what happened with these characters, to include plenty of details. It'd be hard to work too many "surprises" into the mix without messing up the continuity of the later stories.

As for a "direct" sequel I think it's highly unlikely. Harry's generation has earned their happy ending, and its' been made pretty clear that the intervening nineteen years were peaceful and relatively uneventful. Further, bringing back an "even worse than Voldemort" threat to haunt Harry's kids would be entirely gratuitous (ie solely a money-grabbing venture), and completely cheapen Harry's own trials and tribulations. Unless it were set two or more generations removed from Harry's life.

I think J.K. Rowling will write again, but I think it's either likely to be something completely different, or simply set in the same world, but so far distant from Hogwart's et al that there's "space" to have another grand adventure without the two conflicting with each other.

Basically, I really did have the impression that Rowling was done with Harry and Co. And it's not like she needs to keep writing to keep her kids fed and clothed. :p If she never wrote again, she'll still likely be Britain's richest woman for the rest of her life. :)

[twilight]

But I have two questions: if a patronus is so hard to conjure why does it seem damn near everyone can produce one?

Well when the trio break into the Ministry,Hermione has trouble conjuring one.

And besides that the only ones who really use it are Order members(who were taught to communicate through talking Patronuses by Dumbledore) and Dumbledore's Army(who were taught how by Harry).

[Puma]

And yes, one does wonder a bit about Molly Weasley defeating Bellatrix...

if one of your kids was killed fighting against evil and you came upon one of the others battling someone who epitomized that evil, wouldn't you go into ferocious mom-mode?

[ImpulseUCF]

I love that people who haven't even read the book are critiquing it. :rolleyes: The whole death/resurrection thing was explained much mor satisfactorily, and Voldemort's defeat by his own arrogance and refusal to comprehend love or see outside his ideas ws completely in line with the rest of the book.

Heh. My GF totally called it, too. "I bet Mrs. Weasley's is going to be a total badass by the end of the book." She was. :)

[Mikl C]

I BAWLED for the last hundred pages or so.
Molly
Luna
Neville

= LOVE.

[Frodo-X]

I thought Luna's bedroom was really sweet.


And, come on, how can you not like, "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!"? :D

[Crimson]

I think there's lots of room for a prequels (either the life and times of Dumbledore or perhaps the original Order of the Phoenix), or adventures set in different parts of the same "world" (for instance perhaps a story centered around a different wizarding school or another part of the world entirely). The only problem with prequels is that we already basically know what happened with these characters, to include plenty of details. It'd be hard to work too many "surprises" into the mix without messing up the continuity of the later stories.


Rowling as said swe don't see prequels as we know everything we need too.

A sequel would be hard. Seeing a 40 year old Harry Potter running around wouldn't be the same... if it hadn't had that "19 years later" part then I could of seen it.

Last I heard Rowling wants to try and write some murder mystery books next so it seems she's leaving the verse for good (atleast for now, she'll never say never).

[Mikl C]

I liked how he named his child after Snape too.

Awh. What a great book. Better than the rest combined I think.

[Crimson]

Honeslty the most annoying part of this series has been people who don't read the series, or enjoy it, posting spoilers just to p*** people off.

I'm glad that parts over. It was very annoying how if you wanted to enjoy the book you have to shut yourself away for a few days.

I can't think of another book in the world were the shock twists are known by all... well the Bible I suppose.

[Crimson]

I liked how he named his child after Snape too.

Awh. What a great book. Better than the rest combined I think.

This reminds me... why was Harry having Lily's eyes so important? Was it just because of the Snape/Lily thing.

I don't remember it being started clearly, only hinted around.

[sephirothskiller]

if one of your kids was killed fighting against evil and you came upon one of the others battling someone who epitomized that evil, wouldn't you go into ferocious mom-mode?

Ferocious mom-mom mode doesn't matter unless ferocious mom-mom mode in the wizarding world includes a gigantic boost in skill and sudden duelling ability. Her bravery and ferocity were there to be sure, but that shouldn't really matter when it comes down to the fact that she just shouldn't have the skill to fight someone. I felt like Molly Weasley may as well have just beat up Bruce Lee after that fight. It doesn't matter whether she's that angry, she's simply too out classed.

I also agree with Puma that the whole point of a Patronus being so hard to make was basically obliterated by this book, as it had gone from being a spell which took months to replicate to a simple "think happy thoughts" spell which seemed no harder than Wengardium Leviosa (one of my fave parts of the book by the way was Ron casting that spell.)

[Mikl C]

I think of it like that woman lifting a TRUCK to save her child. Molly angry after one of her kids just died? Yeh I can totally see her delivering the smackdown.

[Ring Slinger]

The more that I think about it, the more that I like this book as an end to the series (but still would love to have a post-story appendix ala LOTR that tells what happens to the many characters, gives more details to the reconstruction of the Wizarding world, etc.). Other random thoughts:

I said it before, Kreacher totally rocked my socks, and the scene where he's recounting the tale of Voldemort hiding the locket and Regulus regaining it was just as sad, if not moreso, than Dobby's death.

In a reverse of the Great and Powerful Oz syndrome, I still feel Dumbledore was a very good wizard but a very bad man.

I'm going to re-read, but what exactly was Percy's position in the Epilogue? Why was he (other than it being totally Percy like) going over the rules about broomstick restrictions?

I mourned the loss of the Firebolt.

The camping scenes were annoying because it brought out the worst in each of the three main characters: Ron's fear, Hermione's know-it-all attitude, and Harry's obstinance.

I was not a Lily/Snape proponent before because there was simply too little evidence-- a single scene of there interaction in OotP, but giving them a long history of friendship and unrequited love (on Snape's part, of course) gave us a lot of answers that "felt right." Severus Snape was a great man and was destroyed by Albus Dumbledore, not Voldemort.

Neville rocked.

I still want to know what happened to Luna.

And once again: Hugo???????

[Jmacq1]

Ferocious mom-mom mode doesn't matter unless ferocious mom-mom mode in the wizarding world includes a gigantic boost in skill and sudden duelling ability. Her bravery and ferocity were there to be sure, but that shouldn't really matter when it comes down to the fact that she just shouldn't have the skill to fight someone. I felt like Molly Weasley may as well have just beat up Bruce Lee after that fight. It doesn't matter whether she's that angry, she's simply too out classed.

You're assuming Bellatrix outclassed Molly. If there's one thing Rowling's done well, it's keeping the overall power and skill levels of many of the adult characters very nebulous. Outside of Voldemort and Dumbledore, there's very little in the way of definitive statements as to "who's stronger than who."

We'd never seen Molly in a situation where her duelling skills would come to the fore (or even get mentioned), hence we have no way of knowing how good she might be at it 'til the end. Beyond that, the Weasley family as a whole seems to be generally underestimated by the dark wizards, anyway.

Plus there's something to be said for bad luck on Bellatrix' part. It wasn't like Molly WTFPwned her. They were evenly matched for a few seconds, and then Molly got in a lucky shot. I don't see anything overly implausible about that.

[Zero Hunter]

Molly was a long standing member of the Order of the Phoenix wasn't she? I don't think they would have had her a member if she could not take care of herself in a fight. Plus like others have said she had seen two sons seriosly injured and one killed during this war with Voldermort, and had seen her other children nearly killed half a dozen times since this all started. She was bound to go off sooner or latter.

I kinda hope Luna ended up with Neville.

[Ring Slinger]

I kinda hope Luna ended up with Neville.

Ditto that.

[Mikl C]

Luna deserved an ending!! She was my favourite character overall definitely.

Dumbledore was flawed, but I thought it just made him human.

And RS I agree! Kreacher ROCKED. I was sniffing when he was leading the house elves against the Death Eaters.

[sephirothskiller]

Molly was a long standing member of the Order of the Phoenix wasn't she? I don't think they would have had her a member if she could not take care of herself in a fight.

They had Mundugus as a member and his method of fighting is to run away.

I think that while it's entirely possible that in her early years Molly was a duelling champion experienced with the killing curse, to make it so seems a bit contrived. What's next? Molly as a member of the Flying Hellfish? Bellatrix had loads of duelling experience, and had taken out Neville's parents, both of whom were aurors. So basically Molly suddenly seemed to have more ability than an auror. I would be fine with the lucky shot explanation except that it WAS presented as a skill thing because Harry knew the way in which Bellatrix would lose. Mirroring Sirius.

I too think Kreacher's parts were excellent by the way.

[Eternal Torment]

I still don't get how Dumbledore managed to beat Grindelwald. Unless the latter surrendered (which I don't see happening), the Elder Wand should have provided him with enough power to win the duel.

[Jmacq1]

I still don't get how Dumbledore managed to beat Grindelwald. Unless the latter surrendered (which I don't see happening), the Elder Wand should have provided him with enough power to win the duel.

The Elder Wand was finicky, obviously. And didn't make its' user as invincible as it was billed to.

My interpretation was that the wand provided raw power alone, but didn't necessarily improve the user's skill at using said power, thus a clever enough opponent could still overcome them, just not overpower them.

That, and they didn't really explain what happened in that duel...maybe Grindelwald did just surrender. Or fought for a while and then surrendered. Hard to say since we didn't really get any firsthand accounts of the battle.

[Tommy]

Molly beat Bellatrix in the same way that Harry beat Voldemort. Bellatrix was so wildly overconfident that she took time out of the duel to laugh. And that mistake cost her dearly.

[Crimson]

So... can anyone answer my q?

Why were Harry's eyes so important? I can't remember that be cleared up in the book. I can only assume it was because of Snape love of Lily, looking at Harry everytime would remind him of her.

[Erebus]

They had Mundugus as a member and his method of fighting is to run away.

He was Confunded by Snape.

Another thing I didn't get was how for the past 3 books, there's been a minor hint that all the houses need to band together. Besides Slughorn and Snape, all the Slytherins old enough to join the battle turned out to be slimy little gits who either ran away or joined the Death Eaters. And after all that, they STILL allowed the Slytherin house to continue.

[Crimson]

He was Confunded by Snape.

Another thing I didn't get was how for the past 3 books, there's been a minor hint that all the houses need to band together. Besides Slughorn and Snape, all the Slytherins old enough to join the battle turned out to be slimy little gits who either ran away or joined the Death Eaters. And after all that, they STILL allowed the Slytherin house to continue.

I thought that was funny too... everyone who was in that house at the very least were tools who would do anything to save their own skinds. At the worst they killed and tortured people and dreamed of doing it.

[kmeyers]

According to the wikipedia entry on it, Voldemort's death was the result of Harry being a horocrux. When Voldemort tried to kill baby Harry and the spell backfired to him, it apparently jolted a fragment of Voldemort's soul loose... which migrated to Harry, since he was the closest living thing.

Further, when Voldemort used some of Harry's blood to give himself a new body, it somehow meant that if he attacked Harry after that, it would be his own soul fragment inside Harry which would die, not Harry.

Lame? IMO, yes. With all the buildup Rowling had given the "final confrontation," I hoped for more originality.

And no, I haven't read the book yet---just the wiki entry. Rowling killed a lot of my enthusiasm for the series with "The Order of the Phoenix,"... and that's extended to the movies as well. The only part of that book that I truly enjoyed was when Fred and George rebelled against Umbridge.

As to the "happily ever after" epilogue... that does sound very "canned." I really don't see Draco Malfoy changing all that much; and honestly, if I'm looking to the future, while it's nice to know about the marriages and children, I'm much more interested in what kind of jobs, etc. the various kids took up when they were grown. Neville as herbology instructor is pretty neat---but did Harry ever become an Auror? Instructor of Defense Against the Dark Arts? (TBH, that one's perfect for him.) Who became Headmaster? What did Hermione and Ron end up doing?

And yes, one does wonder a bit about Molly Weasley defeating Bellatrix...
Draco didn't change much, if at all, really. They(Harry and Ron) ended up saving his sorry butt at least 2 times, and he STILL was siding with the Death Eaters in the end. The little git.

It doesn't say what Harry became, other than a father. I would imagine that's because he decided to just take it easy. He's been through enough.

And like others have said, why wouldn't Molly Weasley be able to defeat Bellatrix? It's not like Molly's been portrayed as a bumbling idiot. We just never got to see her badass side...until now, when it really mattered.

[kmeyers]

I think I'm the only one who REALLY didn't like the book.

I found that the final duel with Voldemort was forced, and after ages of wondering how Harry would beat someone with so much more skill and power than him in a duel (which is why I hoped it wouldn't be a duel) the answer was "because it was convienient to the plot." I felt that there was very little reason for the Avada Kedavra to backfire the way it did. I had hoped that Harry might win by overpowering him in some sort of a raw battle of the energy's of good and evil or something significant to the "love conquers" theme, but that didn't happen so much. The whole idea of "I died for these people so they're all protected" reeeealy seemed a bit of a stretch for me. I think if sacrificing yourself for an entire army was possible it would have gained a bit more noteriety.

Well, keep in mind that Harry was the TRUE owner of the Elder Wand, since it was Draco, not Snape that really defeated Dumbledore, even if he didn't deliver the killing blow. Since Harry defeated Draco and took his wand, Harry is the true owner of the Elder Wand. So it didn't work right for Voldemort when he cast his Avada Kedavra spell.

[atoningunifex]

So... can anyone answer my q?

Why were Harry's eyes so important? I can't remember that be cleared up in the book. I can only assume it was because of Snape love of Lily, looking at Harry everytime would remind him of her.

It's more metpahorical than that.

Lily's eyes always come up in the same context. Harry looks almost exactly like his father, but with Lily's eyes.

James was driven and talented and succesful. He loved his frinds dearly. Sometimes not wisely. But he was also a touch rash and a bit of a bully. Everything we've seen of James shows that he tends to see the world in very black-and-white terms.

Lily, however, is more thoughtful and more compassionate. Where James would torment Snape, Lily saw his better qualities. Lily was more studious than James and a gentling influence on him. And, when it came right down to the ultimate test, a more powerful witch than James was a wizard. When facing Voldemort her love and sheer force of will saved Harry.

Harry has a lot of his father's qualities. The bravado, the drive, the talent. He looks like his father. But his eyes are Lily's eyes. He sees with more compassion than James did. He loves more fiercely than James did. He looks like his father, but he has his mother's eyes, her way of seeing.

Harry is a combination of the best of both his parents. But it is his mother's capacity to love and to try and see the best in people that enabled him to get as far as he did, to learn enough to defeat Voldemort.

[Crimson]

Draco didn't change much, if at all, really. They(Harry and Ron) ended up saving his sorry butt at least 2 times, and he STILL was siding with the Death Eaters in the end. The little git.

It doesn't say what Harry became, other than a father. I would imagine that's because he decided to just take it easy. He's been through enough.

And like others have said, why wouldn't Molly Weasley be able to defeat Bellatrix? It's not like Molly's been portrayed as a bumbling idiot. We just never got to see her badass side...until now, when it really mattered.

That was the only part that let me down. In one scene where they are getting Draco to ID Harry he seems really reluctant to do it. Then at the end, that is forgotten and he's trying to kill Harry.

It was hinted a few times he wasn't all evil, a bully yes but not evil. It was hinted in this book a few times but it seemed to go no where... then at the end he was alright.

It really seemed like there was a big chunk of Draco's suplot missing.

[kmeyers]

That was the only part that let me down. In one scene where they are getting Draco to ID Harry he seems really reluctant to do it. Then at the end, that is forgotten and he's trying to kill Harry.

It was hinted a few times he wasn't all evil, a bully yes but not evil. It was hinted in this book a few times but it seemed to go no where... then at the end he was alright.

It really seemed like there was a big chunk of Draco's suplot missing.

Yeah, that's true. Especially since when we see Snape's thoughts in the penseive, Dumbledore is telling Snape to keep an eye out, and take care of Draco. I was expecting Draco to be somewhat important, but he really doesn't do anything good.

[Erebus]

Plus, I think the ONLY reason Snape helped Potter was because of his eyes.

[Erebus]

That was the only part that let me down. In one scene where they are getting Draco to ID Harry he seems really reluctant to do it. Then at the end, that is forgotten and he's trying to kill Harry.

Its on Draco, its that idiot Crabbe who wanted to kill Harry. Draco kept on shouting to take them alive.

[atoningunifex]

As for Molly Weasley killing Bellatrix:

It's kinda silly to assume Molly isn't powerful. She tied everything in her life into her family. If you look at the books, the way she runs her house is probably to most creative and consistent use of magic that appears in the series. She's spent, what, 25 years dealing with quite powerful and quite mischievous magical children.

She's also fiercely protective of her children. In the course of a year she'd seen George lose an ear, Ron disappear for months and Fred die. Then there's Ginny facing Bellatrix. Ginny, her only girl.

Bellatrix never had a chance.

[kmeyers]

Plus, I think the ONLY reason Snape helped Potter was because of his eyes.

No way. It's made perfectly clear that the only reason he helped Harry was because he loved his mother so very much. The eyes might have been a reminder of that, but it was always for Lilly.

Even Dumbledore reminds him, Harry may look like his father, but he acts much more like his mother.

[Erebus]

Draco didn't change much, if at all, really. They(Harry and Ron) ended up saving his sorry butt at least 2 times, and he STILL was siding with the Death Eaters in the end. The little git.

It doesn't really say he sided with the Death Eaters after Harry saves him, it just says he went back to his family. Not that I'm defending him, because he is a little git.

Plus, was Harry actually killed and brought back to life, or was he just knocked out? Because you know that people are going to be pissed that Rowling tried to pull a Jesus on Harry.

[Michael P]

It's more metpahorical than that.

Lily's eyes always come up in the same context. Harry looks almost exactly like his father, but with Lily's eyes.

James was driven and talented and succesful. He loved his frinds dearly. Sometimes not wisely. But he was also a touch rash and a bit of a bully. Everything we've seen of James shows that he tends to see the world in very black-and-white terms.

Lily, however, is more thoughtful and more compassionate. Where James would torment Snape, Lily saw his better qualities. Lily was more studious than James and a gentling influence on him. And, when it came right down to the ultimate test, a more powerful witch than James was a wizard. When facing Voldemort her love and sheer force of will saved Harry.

Harry has a lot of his father's qualities. The bravado, the drive, the talent. He looks like his father. But his eyes are Lily's eyes. He sees with more compassion than James did. He loves more fiercely than James did. He looks like his father, but he has his mother's eyes, her way of seeing.

Harry is a combination of the best of both his parents. But it is his mother's capacity to love and to try and see the best in people that enabled him to get as far as he did, to learn enough to defeat Voldemort.

Exactly as I was going to put it.

As for Molly: Ever seen what happens when a hunter gets between a mother grizzly and her cubs?

[Pach!]

I loved how some of the older characters found their way back into the book. Oliver Wood? I never thought I'd hear that name again. I think they missed a chance with Winky though. Isn't she supposed to be at Hogwarts?

[kmeyers]

It doesn't really say he sided with the Death Eaters after Harry saves him, it just says he went back to his family. Not that I'm defending him, because he is a little git.
During the Battle for Hogwarts, after Harry saves him from the big fire in the Hidden Room, Harry and Ron run into(under the invisibility cloak) Draco telling a Death Eater that he's on their side.

[ImpulseUCF]

The more that I think about it, the more that I like this book as an end to the series (but still would love to have a post-story appendix ala LOTR that tells what happens to the many characters, gives more details to the reconstruction of the Wizarding world, etc.). Yes. That is exactly what I would like. just an appendix or an extended epilogue for the rest of the world. It doesn't need to be a separate book; just a full chapter would suffice.

I said it before, Kreacher totally rocked my socks, and the scene where he's recounting the tale of Voldemort hiding the locket and Regulus regaining it was just as sad, if not moreso, than Dobby's death.Yes, I loved the theme of house elves are what wizards make them by how they treat them, and then he was redeemed and the unity of the races...great, great stuff.

In a reverse of the Great and Powerful Oz syndrome, I still feel Dumbledore was a very good wizard but a very bad man.I disagree. He was arrogant and tempted by power. Harry was stubborn and rash to a fault. Hermione was too by-the-facts. Each had their faults. Dumbledore was flawed, but ultimately really did fight for the greater good and accomplished it. He knew what had to be done and how to get it done. I felt he was redeemed in the end, as were all of them except for Voldemort and Bellatrix.

I'm going to re-read, but what exactly was Percy's position in the Epilogue? Why was he (other than it being totally Percy like) going over the rules about broomstick restrictions?I think that was the point. Business as usual. Normal. Peaceful.

The camping scenes were annoying because it brought out the worst in each of the three main characters: Ron's fear, Hermione's know-it-all attitude, and Harry's obstinance. I think they were annoying and isolating, but they were supposed to be because that's how the characters felt. It was supposed to be pretty bleak, but my satisfaction improved dramatically after they returned to Hogwarts.

Severus Snape was a great man and was destroyed by Albus Dumbledore, not Voldemort.Why do you say that? I don't see it at all. Severus Snape was a flawed man like everyone else who eventually sought redemption. Even when working on the side of good, he was still vindictive, cruel, and spiteful toward Harry. He hated him, but only fought to protect him for his love of his mother. He didn't care about Harry; he cared about Lily's son. I liked that he was ultimately on the side of light.

Neville rocked.CIndeed.
[QUOTE=Jmacq1;5163517]You're assuming Bellatrix outclassed Molly.

We'd never seen Molly in a situation where her duelling skills would come to the fore (or even get mentioned), hence we have no way of knowing how good she might be at it 'til the end.

Molly was a long standing member of the Order of the Phoenix wasn't she? I don't think they would have had her a member if she could not take care of herself in a fight.My thoughts exactly.

Loved it. Want to see the full epilogue. That is all.

[ImpulseUCF]

Yes. She would let her guard down out of arrogance, as Sirius did, and Molly took advantage of it.
[QUOTE=Tommy;5163656]Molly beat Bellatrix in the same way that Harry beat Voldemort. Bellatrix was so wildly overconfident that she took time out of the duel to laugh. And that mistake cost her dearly.Precisely.

Draco didn't change much, if at all, really. They(Harry and Ron) ended up saving his sorry butt at least 2 times, and he STILL was siding with the Death Eaters in the end. Draco wasn't really siding with them; he was trying to save his ass and avoid their wrath. Even when he begged and said he was on their side he was saying it out of ear. at the end I don't think he really changed; he just grudgingly acknowledged Ron and Harry with the tiniest bit of respect. That's all.

[ImpulseUCF]

During the Battle for Hogwarts, after Harry saves him from the big fire in the Hidden Room, Harry and Ron run into(under the invisibility cloak) Draco telling a Death Eater that he's on their side.He was just trying to save his ass. He's been disgusted, terrified of, and repulsed by them throughout the entire book. You can tell he doesn't mean it. Self preservation.

[kmeyers]

Draco wasn't really siding with them; he was trying to save his ass and avoid their wrath. Even when he begged and said he was on their side he was saying it out of ear. at the end I don't think he really changed; he just grudgingly acknowledged Ron and Harry with the tiniest bit of respect. That's all.

He wasn't siding with them, I guess, but he wasn't fighting against them like I thought he was going to, and should have done.

[Frodo-X]

I like that Griphook loses in the end. He runs away with the sword, but then Neville pulls it out of the hat.

So I picture Griphook all happy about having it only to have it disappear from his hands. :p

[Frodo-X]

I'd say the idea with Draco is that he's a wimp. He's not on either side, he just sort of coasts along trying not to get burned. After all, he doesn't kill anybody himself. Granted, he sets it up, but really he strikes me as a wimpier version of Wormtail; simply out to cover his own ass, yet he doesn't go to the extremes of killing that Wormtail did.

[Jmacq1]

Yeah, I think some people invested too much credit in Malfoy. He was important, but in a very indirect way. As a character, he was never intended to turn into some bright shining hero (not even in the Snape mold) and was really always just a paper tiger. He's generally a spoiled, arrogant bully, a wizard of middling talents, and little else.

I just guess a fair number of people were expecting a lot more from him than he ever gave any indication of having.

[kmeyers]

Am I the only one who wanted to see something bad happen to Dolores Umbridge? When we find out that she had the locket, I thought for sure we were going to see her get what was coming to her, but sadly it didn't really happen.

Also, Rita Skeeter. I wish someone would have beaten her to death with her own book.

[Inkthinker]

Minor gripe:
- Ron speaking parseltongue.

Ron doesn't "speak" it, so much as imitate it being spoken. He reproduces (badly) the sounds he heard Harry make, without understanding them, much as if you heard a smattering of any language you don't know but can phonetically repeat.

[ImpulseUCF]

Am I the only one who wanted to see something bad happen to Dolores Umbridge? No, you aren't. I would have dumped her in the forest with the centaurs.

Also, Rita Skeeter. I wish someone would have beaten her to death with her own book.Agreed, but I guess she's just a normal, if despicable, part of their world.

[Crimson]

Its on Draco, its that idiot Crabbe who wanted to kill Harry. Draco kept on shouting to take them alive.

See I thought that was perhaps the worst thing Draco had every done.

Really, he'd always been just a bully. He wasn't evil, he proved that when he couldn't go through with killing Dumbledore in cold blood... he was just scared and trying to save his own skin.

However there he had left the castle, he was out. Even if it was Crabbe or Goyle's idea, he could of easily made an excuse to stay out. Instead he went back in and you can't hold his father or Voldermort responsible for influencing that.

Yeah he said keep them alive but he lead them straight to where Harry and co were going. No one forced him to do that, heck if he wanted too he could of turned the room into a room where Crabbe and Goyle couldn't enter... yet he didn't.

He laid in waiting and wanted to catch them for Voldermort.:(

[ImpulseUCF]

He laid in waiting and wanted to catch them for Voldermort.:(To end the fight and ave his ass. He was the coward, through and through. He wasn't good; he just wasn't evil.

[Michael P]

To end the fight and ave his ass. He was the coward, through and through. He wasn't good; he just wasn't evil.

Oh, I think he was pretty evil, just not as evil as the people around him.

[sephirothskiller]

Oh, I think he was pretty evil, just not as evil as the people around him.

I sort of got the whole "He was corrupted by people around him" vibe off of Malfoy, the same way that Snape was.

[sephirothskiller]

My Summary of the seventh book:

In order to defeat Ganondorf, Harry must collect all the pieces of the triforce, as well as the master sword. :D

[Erebus]

Another thing that kind of griped me was that we never saw what Dumbledore truly saw in the Mirror of Erised.

[DaeJi]

Brilliant book. Simply, simply brilliant. I'll miss the world of Harry Potter, and Hedwig and Lupin and Tonks and Fred... I cried a little :o. It's hard now, no Harry Potter books to look forward too... *sniff*

[kmeyers]

Another thing that kind of griped me was that we never saw what Dumbledore truly saw in the Mirror of Erised.

Yeah we do. Just like Harry, Dumbledore saw his family together again in the mirror.

[DaeJi]

I'm going to go back and read all the Potter books again, re-live their magic one more time. Well... I may speed read the sixth book (by far my least favorite). It'll be sad though, knowing who dies (why did she kill both Remus and Tonks?!). I think, the one thing I will take away from this series, the one thing I will always remember is what she left the final note of the book on: that sense of wonder, of awe and discovery, that will forever live in the kid inside all of us.

[Zero Hunter]

As for Molly Weasley killing Bellatrix:

It's kinda silly to assume Molly isn't powerful. She tied everything in her life into her family. If you look at the books, the way she runs her house is probably to most creative and consistent use of magic that appears in the series. She's spent, what, 25 years dealing with quite powerful and quite mischievous magical children.

She's also fiercely protective of her children. In the course of a year she'd seen George lose an ear, Ron disappear for months and Fred die. Then there's Ginny facing Bellatrix. Ginny, her only girl.

Bellatrix never had a chance.

And don't forget Bill being scarred and nearly killed by the werewolf Fenrir Greyback.

[Nightcrawler]

Great finale. Dobby's death was definintely the worst for me. I'd also like to see more from their later lives, especially the more minor characters. Dumbledore's story was great, especially his talk with Harry.

[Fenris]

I just finished it. First impressions/random thoughts that I haven't really sorted out yet:

- The opening quotations were kind of odd for Rowling. They reminded me of Stephen King, somehow; it's much more like the way he opens his novels.

- Dudley's quiet, clumsy reformation was a lot more convincing than Percy's melodramatic one. Maybe it's just because it didn't go too far: Dudley isn't going to be a saint, but it's possible to believe that he'll grow into a reasonable, decent person, in spite of his upbringing.

(After reading that scene, I was unhappily convinced that the Dursleys would soon be dead. But they were never mentioned again, were they?)

- The Godrick's Hollow surprise was not so surprising; but the scene in Luna's bedroom, where Harry notices all the dust, made me go, "Oh. Oh, dear..."

- Dumbledore's history was much darker than I expected. Oh, well. As Harry himself says, it's hard to imagine Dumbledore as a teenager; but he was, and the things that tempted him were so banal that I found them convincing. He wasn't tempted by Voldemort's obsession with death, or Grindlewald's desire for power; he was just really bored. And then he was tempted with friendship, of all things- which is something that Rowling hasn't really dealt with much, since all the bad people at Hogwarts go into Slythern.

- I wish we'd heard of Grindlewald before. (Or did we, and I forgot about it?) Surely, in all the discussions of the history of Voldemort and Dumbledore, someone should have mentioned the other great Dark wizard who threatened to take over the world, until Dumbledore stopped him.

- The end of the wedding was one of the best cliffhangers in the series.

- It's hard to believe that Ron's dad wasn't killed, going to work every day at the Ministry. Maybe he was more popular and influential than I'd thought, and they didn't quite dare to touch him yet?

- I wonder how much of Umbridge's evil came from the fact that she wore the Horcrux nonstop? Not that she started out especially good, I'd bet; but we saw how it could affect Ron with only a few hours' exposure. And unlike Ron, she had no way of knowing what it was doing to her.

õ
Overall, I quite liked it!

[Puma]

Am I the only one who wanted to see something bad happen to Dolores Umbridge? When we find out that she had the locket, I thought for sure we were going to see her get what was coming to her, but sadly it didn't really happen.

Also, Rita Skeeter. I wish someone would have beaten her to death with her own book.


gods yes. House blown up, kittens escaping from the plates and attacking Umbridge.

[leonaozaki]

- I wish we'd heard of Grindlewald before. (Or did we, and I forgot about it?) Surely, in all the discussions of the history of Voldemort and Dumbledore, someone should have mentioned the other great Dark wizard who threatened to take over the world, until Dumbledore stopped him.



In the first book, when Harry's eating Chocolate Frogs on the Hogwarts Express, he gets Dumbledore's card, which contains a short biography. I think there were three facts: 1) Dumbledore worked with Nicolas Flamel, 2) discovered 12 uses of dragon's blood, and 3) defeated the Dark Wizard Grindlewald in 1945.

rob

[Jmacq1]

Good point on Umbridge and the locket. But then again, she wouldn't have gotten the locket until after Sirius died, so she was already pretty despicable to start.

As for Ron's dad, he may have been a "blood traitor" but he was still a "pureblood." The Death-Eaters were probably reluctant to move against him for precisely that reason.

[mgs]

This fellow (http://mightygodking.livejournal.com/343960.html) has a thorough chapter-by-chapter summary of the book, with extensive commentary.

Long story short, Voldemort offs himself trying to kill Harry, then there's a "nineteen years later" epilogue where everyone is married with kids. None of the main characters die, although the secondary and tertiary cast gets thinned out quite a bit.

ED, that link doesn't work for me, is it still valid?

[kmeyers]

edit: nevermind

[Ring Slinger]

Another great scene: Hiding in Ravenclaw tower with Luna, Harry whips off the Invisibility Cloak and tells Carrow, who just spat in McGonagall's face: "You shouldn't have done that."

[Joe Grendel]

I thought it was a very strong ending to the series. I liked that JKR started killing off characters very early on, beginning with one I wouldn't have even thought to have killed -- and doing so in a way that emphasizes that this really is childhood's end -- and kept on going.

I have one quibble, regarding the Room of Requirement: Why would Voldemort believe no one had ever found the Lost Items version of the room when it was filled to the brim with other people's stuff?

Other than that, I found it very well plotted, and I especially like the obvious-in-retrospect key to Snape's character.

The epilogue was a little cheesy, but she wrote the last line of the book years ago, before she had matured as a writer. She wanted to use it, so she had to have an epilogue. Given how much WASN'T in the epilogue, I'd say she restrained herself quite a bit. Other than two romantic questions being answered, it didn't really tell us that much.

Given that she's the richest woman in Britain by a large margin, I don't think we'll see any more wizarding books until she's good and ready. (Maybe in time for her grandchildren to read them.) I suspect she's going to do a Richard Bachman number and start writing something very different, just for the hell of it, though.

[Ring Slinger]

Question: JKR stated about DEATHLY HALLOWS that in the process of revision, the final version gave one character a reprieve and killed two others she originally had not-- theories?

I wonder if Lupin and Tonks were the two who were "newly" killed-- their deaths were almost a sidenote and took place out of the scope of the book's narration.

Reprieve? Maybe Hagrid-- there were a lot of near misses for Hagrid and many times I thought he was a goner.

[Joe Grendel]

-Dumbledore's past, family, etc. Dumbledore became a LOT more interesting in this one. Its interesting that he only ever really becomes a complex, full character post mortem, but I'm glad he did. The stuff with Grindelwald was really cool.

-House elves. As someone whose hated all of them before this book, Dobby's death was the most moving scene of the books, and in general the elves were badass.

-the Voldemort regime. The parts about changes wrought in the world ruled by Voldemort, especially the totally banally evil Ministry and Lee Jordan's Potterwatch, were really cool. As ever JKR has a knack for the small details that bring a setting to life instantly.

-Neville. Neville is easily the most badass member of Harry's year. When he showed up, all battered, renegade fugitive, and then later with the sword pulled out of the hat while it was on fire...dayumn. I've never been a big Neville fan before, but he's awesome now.

-Harry's sacrifice. Even though I knew he wouldn't die, when Harry walked forward, with full knowledge and totally willing to die, it was fantastic.

-Molly Weasely kills Bellatrix in her face. 'Nuff said.
I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.

I also like how JKR has been unafraid to use KKK and Nazi allusions in her books -- the Death-Eaters in Goblet of Fire were vintage Klan-on-the-move, and the Voldemort Regime was absolutely a picture of Fascist Wizardry. I don't know that the historical resonances will register with the youngest readers, but I appreciate that they're in there. Evil is not a fantasy, and I appreciate her clear-eyed depiction of evil, violence and the consequences of putting safety ahead of doing the right thing.

[Joe Grendel]

People are pissed about it?

Stephen King called this reaction (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20044270_20044274_20044682,00.html) in an Entertainment Weekly column a few weeks ago:

Although the only thing we can be sure of is that Deathly Hallows won't end in a 10-second blackout (you're going to hear that a lot in the next few weeks), my guess is that large numbers of readers will not be satisfied even if Harry survives (I'm betting he will) and Lord Voldemort is vanquished (I'm betting on this, too, although evil is never vanquished for long). I'm partly drawing on my own experience with The Dark Tower (reader satisfaction with the ending was low — tough titty, since it was the only one I had); partly on my belief that very few long works end as felicitously as Tolkien's Rings series, with its beautiful pilgrimage into the Grey Havens; but mostly on the fact that there is that sadness, that inevitable parting from characters who have been loved deeply by many. The Internet blog sites will be full of this was bad and that was wrong, but it's going to boil down to something that many will feel and few will come right out and state: No ending can be right, because it shouldn't be over at all. The magic is not supposed to go away.

[Joe Grendel]

In other news, I was surprised that she gave the whole thing a definite timeline.
She's dropped dates in before, but never so explicitly.

I'd never even considered that Hedwig could die, and that was like a punch in the stomach to me! I read that part like four times to make sure I read it correctly.
I was impressed by that. It takes guts for a novelist who knows she's writing for children to put a gun to a pet's head and then pull the trigger. It certainly expresses that this isn't a game any more, though.

[Sheldon]

Oh, I think he was pretty evil, just not as evil as the people around him.

No Malfoy was just much more of a coward than those around him.

[sephirothskiller]

Stephen King called this reaction (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20044270_20044274_20044682,00.html) in an Entertainment Weekly column a few weeks ago:

[QUOTE=Stephen King] Originally Posted by Stephen King
Although the only thing we can be sure of is that Deathly Hallows won't end in a 10-second blackout (you're going to hear that a lot in the next few weeks), my guess is that large numbers of readers will not be satisfied even if Harry survives (I'm betting he will) and Lord Voldemort is vanquished (I'm betting on this, too, although evil is never vanquished for long). I'm partly drawing on my own experience with The Dark Tower (reader satisfaction with the ending was low — tough titty, since it was the only one I had); partly on my belief that very few long works end as felicitously as Tolkien's Rings series, with its beautiful pilgrimage into the Grey Havens; but mostly on the fact that there is that sadness, that inevitable parting from characters who have been loved deeply by many. The Internet blog sites will be full of this was bad and that was wrong, but it's going to boil down to something that many will feel and few will come right out and state: No ending can be right, because it shouldn't be over at all. The magic is not supposed to go away.[QUOTE]



Stephen King is a smart man. I for one feel that this is in fact the difference between the Dark Tower and Harry Potter. While obviously SK wrote a "mean" ending, it was completely brilliant, and all about things continuing. I felt that Rowling on the other hand decided at the start of her book that adult had to mean without wonder, and this is certainly not the case. I felt that the express purpose of the epilogue was to extinguish the magic of the characters for good. (The kids had throwaway dialogue that in no way passed on le torch.)

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Liked it. They should get Ian Mckellen to play dumbledores brother.


Quick thoughts


Liked the camping stuff myself, it was interesting and isolated. It also reminded me of this book i read a long time ago that i cant remember the name of. Basically 4 kids who were lost or orphans or something had to survive on their own in like some shack or something they found and a lot of the book revolved around them like finding everyday trinkets and stuff to make life easier, like a chipped cup....some old utensils. Anyone know what im talking about?

Called all the snape stuff just from the last book and some things that made me think about (always talking smack about his dad only, never talking bad about his mother. Plus although it wasnt stated or anything i suspect he helped Lily in potions) Personally i thought he killed DUmbledore because he had to because of that unbreakable vow thing, thus it would explain the fear from Dumbledore. Fear not for himself but because he knew snape was forced to do it.

Didnt really like how Snape died, but i dont suppose i was supposed to. JK doesnt give hero deaths to her characters which i am used to. Siruis died because he was boasting foolishly. Dumbledore because (before the revelation in this book) he was weakened by poision. Hedwig hit by a blast. Moody died in a flashback in a sense. Tonks and Lupin off page. Fred by the explosion. Sure there are more i cant think of.

In some ways i was hoping for one of the main 3 to die. Thus is carried over from buffy probably when i thought that at least one of the original 4 needed to die but it didnt happen.

Liked the house elf stuff, but one wonders how they will cut around this in the movie since the subplot was never brought up. One also wonders about the snape flashbacks since in the movie Lily wasnt even in it.

Dobby death got me, as well as the snape flashback stuff. quasi Weepy. Books never really got to me in this way before.

Felt there should have been another chapter before the epilogue dealing with the aftermath.

Definitely want more books. Either following the next generation or filling in the blanks, but i doubt ill get them. Still hope though.



Also, what was up with that deluxe edition of the book with more pages? Anyone get that? What was the extra stuff?

[Jmacq1]

The whole point was that there really wasn't a torch to pass on. Voldemort was dead, the Death Eaters were finished, and all was right with the world. Harry doesn't want his kids to have to go through what he did, and they shouldn't have to if Harry did what he was supposed to do (and he did).

In other words, "They all lived happily ever after."

Sure it's not exciting, but people keep talking like the epilogue was supposed to be the setup for a whole new sequel series, when she's made it pretty clear that's not likely to happen anytime soon, if ever.

Aside from the unanswered questions about side-characters and relatively unimportant details like what Harry did for a living, the epilogue did exactly what it was supposed to do, and quite frankly, any dissatisfaction with it (beyond the items mentioned above, and those are really minor except to the most fanatically detail-oriented people anyway) really sounds like it's feeding into the very thing Stephen King was talking about.

Use your imagination to figure out what happened to them. Heck, maybe Harry became a professional Quidditch player. ;)

[Jmacq1]

Also, what was up with that deluxe edition of the book with more pages? Anyone get that? What was the extra stuff?

It was an extra 50 pages to the epilogue explaining the lives of every single surviving character in meticulous detail. ;)

I'm kidding, of course, and I don't actually know for sure...the person in front of me got the last copy of the director's cut. Bah!

But I think it's just that there are some full-page illustrations sprinkled throughout, and that's where the extra pages come from. I could be wrong, though.

[Frodo-X]

I imagine Harry, and quite possibly Ron & Hermione as well, would never need to work. I mean, he's the savior of the entire wizarding world, who's gonna charge him for stuff?

Or, if they are, all he needs is some endorsement deals and stuff. "Harry Potter loves Butterbeer..." "Harry Potter recommends The Firebolt..." Hell, it works in the real world where he's a fictional character! (Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans, Chocolate Frogs)

:p

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

i never really felt like Hermonie and Harry had much sparks so i was never upset with him not ending up with her

But


for a good chuck of this book i was oddly enough hoping they got together.

Odd.

Plus him ending up with Ginny is kind of like Oedipus territory when one thinks about it.

Reading the first 6 books i could get were they were going and understood it and was anxious for it, but i guess her lack of presence in this book sort of undercut the relationship a bit.

One saw the attraction in the previous books, but never really any chemistry.

Hmmm

[Tommy]

I wanted Harry to wind up with Luna. They had great chemistry.

[Joe Grendel]

Didnt really like how Snape died, but i dont suppose i was supposed to. JK doesnt give hero deaths to her characters which i am used to.
I love her for this. Real life doesn't give its characters heroic deaths as a rule, either.

If the most popular children's writer of our time can make violence seem a tenth as awful as it really is, she's done a tremendous service.

IME, folks who write heroic violence to the exclusion of all else have never been in a playground fistfight, much less seen real combat. They glorify something they don't viscerally understand.

[DaeJi]

Plus him ending up with Ginny is kind of like Oedipus territory when one thinks about it.


This interests me. What makes you say that?

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Cause she's a filthy red head. ;) :p

[OzBat!]

I wish we'd heard of Grindlewald before. (Or did we, and I forgot about it?) Surely, in all the discussions of the history of Voldemort and Dumbledore, someone should have mentioned the other great Dark wizard who threatened to take over the world, until Dumbledore stopped him.We did. Wayyy back in Book 1, on the back of Dumbledore's Chocolate Frog card.

Draco was a coward, yes, but intimately important to the plot thanks to the machinations over the Elder Wand. There were bits and pieces dropped in the second half of the book that didn't come together for me until Harry and Riddle (loved Harry destroying his mystique as well as his plans at that point!) were facing off the last time. Mastery of the wand always transferred by defeating the current possessor of the wand, that much was established, so its reputation as a much more powerful wand didn't prevent its owners being defeated. Dumbledore defeating Grindlewald was just the latest in a long line of transfership over the centuries, and true to form.

I'd been waiting for the last six books, and Harry finally stopped reacting and relying on Hermioine for info, and laid out the whole mess for everyone to see. The final spell rebounded on Riddle because the elder wand didn't recognise him as its master, it recognised Harry instead - Draco was the one who disarmed Dumbledore on the tower, not Snape, so the Wand recognised him as master even though he didn't possess it. Then Harry disarmed Draco in Malfoy Manor, and fought Voldemort with the vanquished's wand. The elder wand recognised this as the transfer of ownership. Voldemort just happened to be holding it at the time. IF Voldemort had been holding his own phoenix wand, battling Harry holding the Elder wand, I doubt that Voldemort would have lost. He had the experience, the power, and the ruthlessness to do it, and the history of the Elder wand showed that this was how it was passed from owner to owner.

And it was Harry who put all this together, recognised what was going on and did so on his own. Dumbledore didn't even know it before he died, he wanted the mastery to go to Snape, and Voldemort assumed this was the case as well. The final curse rebounded on Voldemort because the Elder wand refused to act against its master. Voldemort wasn't the legitimate owner of it. None of his curses using it worked properly. Harry noted in the forest that he didn't feel anything when Voldemort used Crucio on Harry's supposedly 'dead' body. The full-body-bind on Neville broke the instant he pulled the sword from the hat (again! Griphook will be pissed... the goblins just can't hang on to that thing!) and struck the snake. Harry's shield charms were able to block unforgiveable curses in the final battle in the hall, where in the past it was recognised that shield charms would usually be futile in defence against them - the wand was not obeying its holder. Voldemort was defeated by his own ignorance and self-centred nature. All in all, this was a very satisfying solution and true to Voldemort's character, especially as explored in the Half-Blood Prince.

Another thing: In the Room of Requirement, or Hidden Things as he called it, Draco wasn't just trying to keep Harry alive for Voldemort - as soon as he realised that Potter was there for something, he had an idea it whatever it was could bring Voldemort down. He was desperate to free himself and his family from Voldemort's control, and was prepared to see what Harry was up to. And for the first time ever, his idiot friends ignored him and went on the offensive.

I think I'll have to go back and reread it over the next few nights. Great book!

[kmeyers]

Cause she's a filthy red head. ;) :p

I know you're joking, but since you made me think about it...Mrs. Weasley is Harry's surrogate mother, and Ginny is her only daughter...

[OzBat!]

The interesting thing about the epilogue, is that it doesn't describe a single detail about outside events. For all we know, the after effects of the battle raged on for years. Other dark wizards could keep turning up on Harry's doorstep every year or so, wanting to defeat him to take the elder wand.

All that we know is, for 19 years, Harry's scar has been quiet. Voldemort is truly gone. The end, of their personal power struggle.

What's interesting to me is that Rowling apparently spent about five years designing key scenes, putting everything together, then started writing the individual books. Who's to say she doesn't do that again for the next set?

Also, from perusing the leaky cauldron website a few months ago, I recall there's quotes from Rowling that indicate Harry's series is set in the past, they've gone and worked out the entire timeline. '19 years later' sets them well and truly in... current time, now. I think. Has that been done for a reason?

[Joe Grendel]

Another thing: In the Room of Requirement, or Hidden Things as he called it, Draco wasn't just trying to keep Harry alive for Voldemort - as soon as he realised that Potter was there for something, he had an idea it whatever it was could bring Voldemort down. He was desperate to free himself and his family from Voldemort's control, and was prepared to see what Harry was up to. And for the first time ever, his idiot friends ignored him and went on the offensive.
Yeah, I view this book as something of a minor redemption for Draco. In the end, faced with living in the world he claimed he wanted to be a part of, he started looking for the exit, even if it meant letting Potter and company succeed.

[kmeyers]

The interesting thing about the epilogue, is that it doesn't describe a single detail about outside events. For all we know, the after effects of the battle raged on for years. Other dark wizards could keep turning up on Harry's doorstep every year or so, wanting to defeat him to take the elder wand.
Harry gave up the Elder Wand after repairing his phoenix wand. He said he was going to put it back, which i assume means burying it with Dumbledore again. But I guess he is still the master of it even if he isn't using it.

There could easily be other stories in the making, though.

[OzBat!]

But Harry gave up the Elder Wand after repairing his phoenix wand. He said he was going to put it back, which i assume means burying it with Dumbledore again.Yeah, but would YOU tell anybody where you put it? :p Nobody outside the headmasters' room would know what Potter had done with it. So like Voldemort tracking down Grindelwald, it's entirely possible wizards on a powertrip looking for the Elder wand could come looking to its last known owner to find out where it was.

Plenty of future story potential!

[OzBat!]

Yeah, I view this book as something of a minor redemption for Draco. In the end, faced with living in the world he claimed he wanted to be a part of, he started looking for the exit, even if it meant letting Potter and company succeed.AND for his family. Narcissa lied to Voldemort in the forest after all (so much for his supreme legimancy!) and she'd been looking for the 'out' since book six.

That whole family had been paying for Lucius' mistakes, and it was appropriate that Lucius was broken and kept aside, his wand smashed, while his family picked up the pieces.

[kmeyers]

Yeah, but would YOU tell anybody where you put it? :p Nobody outside the headmasters' room would know what Potter had done with it. So like Voldemort tracking down Grindelwald, it's entirely possible wizards on a powertrip looking for the Elder wand could come looking to its last known owner to find out where it was.

Plenty of future story potential!
True. I forgot for a second that he's still the master of it, even if he's not using it anymore. You caught me before my quick edit!

[OzBat!]

True. I forgot for a second that he's still the master of it, even if he's not using it anymore. You caught me before my quick edit!I would have been a brilliant seeker as a kid!

[sephirothskiller]

Liked it. They should get Ian Mckellen to play dumbledores brother.




Liked the camping stuff myself, it was interesting and isolated. It also reminded me of this book i read a long time ago that i cant remember the name of. Basically 4 kids who were lost or orphans or something had to survive on their own in like some shack or something they found and a lot of the book revolved around them like finding everyday trinkets and stuff to make life easier, like a chipped cup....some old utensils. Anyone know what im talking about?


The boxcar children? Heh, I remember them. Good times.

[Ring Slinger]

I know you're joking, but since you made me think about it...Mrs. Weasley is Harry's surrogate mother, and Ginny is her only daughter...

Oedipus married his mother, not his best friend's sister. There's nothing Oedipal about it.

One more thing: does Snape get a portrait in the headmaster's office? I would have loved just a very short scene along the lines of:

HARRY: Thanks...for everything.
SNAPE'S PORTRAIT: You're welcome, Potter.

[Joe Grendel]

Oedipus married his mother, not his best friend's sister. There's nothing Oedipal about it.

One more thing: does Snape get a portrait in the headmaster's office? I would have loved just a very short scene along the lines of:

HARRY: Thanks...for everything.
SNAPE'S PORTRAIT: You're welcome, Potter.

The portraits appear pretty quickly, I seem to recall. Hopefully he'll at least appear in the movie version.

[kmeyers]

Oedipus married his mother, not his best friend's sister. There's nothing Oedipal about it.
I know the story of Oedipus. I was just saying that Mrs. Weasley was basically his mother, and Harry went for her daughter.


One more thing: does Snape get a portrait in the headmaster's office? I would have loved just a very short scene along the lines of:

HARRY: Thanks...for everything.
SNAPE'S PORTRAIT: You're welcome, Potter.

Seriously, that would have been a really nice touch.

[literally exaggerated]

Draco's arc was perfect. In the end, he realized that evil of the grandiose, Voldemort-type, or even the psychotic Bellatrix-type, just wasn't for him. he was a cowardly weasel who liked feeling better than everyone, but he wasn't a sadist, and he didn't like killing.

He protected Hermione in the manor by claiming to be unable to recognize her. And he survived the room of requirement while Crabbe died, because instead of just running like Crabbe he stayed to try to help Goyle.

Yet, when faced with a Death Eater, he desperately tries to insist he is on their side.

Basically it just felt very true to me. he wasn't some badass redeemed antihero (Snape already has that position locked up), nor was he a monster, he was just a very weak, mean person with some basic shred of morality but no courage, nor any sorcerous abilities beyond the level of, say, Ron.

I also liked how his family were portrayed. Lucius, now that I think about it, is basically Draco writ large. Elitist, cruel, and occasionally somewhat cunning (though generally in a manner that involves crass use of dark objects he doesn't fully understand), but weak, cowardly, sycophantic and reliant on his blood and status rather than abilities. He also honestly cared about his family, as did Narcissa, which seemed like a nice touch. After years of fics portraying the Malfoys as some horribly dysfunctional, abusive set of monsters (Lucius epsecially), the fact that they did end up genuinely caring about each other was something I liked.

And, of course, the Malfoys are the only Deatheaters to come out of the end okay. Ever the survivors, even if its only through being complete treacherous weasels.

I liked that at the end, when Harry sees Draco, they aren't friends, but they don't hate each other either. Both of them managed to grow up beyond a schoolboy grudge. Which is more than can be said for the marauders and Snape (btw, the marauders are the most messed up generation ever. Remus' self-hatred and low self-esteem to the point of trying to abandon his family, Sirius' arrogance to the point of characterizing Regulus as basically just a stupid weakling, peter the traitor, James the arrogant prick, and of course Snape is probably the biggest emotional wreck in the series).

[Ring Slinger]

I know the story of Oedipus. I was just saying that Mrs. Weasley was basically his mother, and Harry went for her daughter.


Sorry, still not buying it. Thanks anyway.

By the way, we know that Harry named his second child Albus Severus Potter. Any bets that the first is James Sirius Potter?

[Joe Grendel]

Am I the only one who wondered about the possibility of getting someone to paint a portrait of Dumbledore they could use as an advisor?

[kmeyers]

Sorry, still not buying it. Thanks anyway.

I wasn't trying to sell it, but since Brian "Vash" Ashby brought up the Oedipus thing, and said it was just because she was a redhead, it made me think about it, and there was a better connection to Oedipus than just the red hair thing. Even though it isn't really there.

[kmeyers]

And once again: Hugo???????

I don't remember any Hugo in the story...

[Ring Slinger]

I don't remember any Hugo in the story...

Hugo was the name of Ron and Hermione's son (the one too young for Hogwarts)-- who names their kid Hugo? Best I can figure is R for Rosie and Ron, H for Hugo and Hermione.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

The boxcar children? Heh, I remember them. Good times.

Oh yeah

thats it

Oye

I might have to hunt that down

Did a quick wiki and found there are like 19 sequels to that book where the kids like go off and solve mysteries. Wow, thats retarded. But im intrigued.


Oedipus married his mother, not his best friend's sister. There's nothing Oedipal about it.
.

Well his mother and GInny are very similar

Not unlike how Ron and Hermione's relationship greatly parallels Mr and Mrs. Weaselys.

Or some such

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Hugo was the name of Ron and Hermione's son (the one too young for Hogwarts)-- who names their kid Hugo? Best I can figure is R for Rosie and Ron, H for Hugo and Hermione.

Maybe they live in Venezuela

[kmeyers]

Hugo was the name of Ron and Hermione's son (the one too young for Hogwarts)-- who names their kid Hugo? Best I can figure is R for Rosie and Ron, H for Hugo and Hermione.

Ha! Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. I thought it might have been the name of one of Hagrids animals.

[Frodo-X]

Just because Mrs. Weasley was like a mother to Harry doesn't mean Ginny was like a sister. After all, for the first three or four years, she was always to shy to even be in the room with him. First time he really starts to hang out with her they're about 15 or 16, and so she's his best friend's sister, but she isn't like his own sister.

[kmeyers]

Just because Mrs. Weasley was like a mother to Harry doesn't mean Ginny was like a sister. After all, for the first three or four years, she was always to shy to even be in the room with him. First time he really starts to hang out with her they're about 15 or 16, and so she's his best friend's sister, but she isn't like his own sister.

I know, I was responding to another post, just to find some kind of connection for the fun of it. Sorry.

[Novaya Havoc]

I posted my review today, so I'll share my thoughts.

I'll come out and say it: I loathed Book 6 (Half-Blood Prince) with a fury of a thousand suns. JK Rowling seemed to phone it in, telling most of the story through her pet plot device (the Pensieve), a little deus-ex-machina (Felix Felicis), and too much unnecessary angst (oh, the SNOGGING)!

Thankfully, JK has thrown much of this out of the window, instead creating a gripping, on-the-run "DaVinci Code"-lite.

Instead of falling into the cyclical nature of the previous installments -- Harry on Privet Drive; Harry experiences an expository set-up; Harry goes to Hogwarts; Harry/Ron/Hermione face challenges; Harry/Ron/Hermione uncover the villain; Harry/Ron/Hermione beat said villain; Every one goes home "HAPPY SUMMER! SEE YOU NEXT YEAR!" -- "Deathly Hallows" turns the book on its ear. Our main trio do not go to Hogwarts, instead continuing on their quest to destroy the 7 Horcruxes that comprise Voldemort's soul.

In effect, this is the only installment of the series that deviates from the old formula, and it is rather refreshing. JK has a fabulous set-up -- the Ministry of Magic falls under Voldemort, while Voldemort and his "Death Eaters" go about to kill normal "Muggles" and those wizards not of a pure-blood lineage.

It's reminiscent of Rowling's aplomb in handling man vs. bureaucracy as seen in "Order of the Phoenix." Instead, "Deathly Hallows" -- at the end of the day -- underlines a strong sense of liberalism vs. conservatism. Multiculturalism vs. uniformity. She touches upon wizards not only defending "mudbloods" or "half-bloods," but also defending House Elves, defending Goblins, and touches on "controversial" weddings: the marriage between a Half-Veela and a Wizard, and the conception of a Werewolf and Animagus. It's a fantastic, if not entirely new, subtext.

Given this, Book 7 is a satisfying read, conjoining a bit of idealism with fast-paced mystery.

Yet it lags in aspiring to be a "Harry Potter" novel. Several pages are wasted on tying up loose ends and tying in old standbys. There is a requisite squabble between the "Trio." And much of it reads as though JK was writing for some "fantastic summer blockbuster" (whereas Book 6 will make for a pitiful film overall) than to drive the point home.

As others have said, the entire concept of the "Deathly Hallows" seems tacked on, deviating from the much better Horcrux plot. Of course, it serves as a weak "desire vs. responsibility" debate for Harry, but this is resolved rather quickly and without any genuine character growth. Essentially, it is a wasted sub-plot, and aside from the catchy sound of it, not worthy of the book's title.

And, to echo further sentiment, the beginning of the book drags, and drags, and drags. Aside from a tight, gripping trip-to-and-escape-from the Ministry of Magic, the entire "Muggle Sympathizer!" and "Round up the Mudbloods!" subplot is entirely dropped. The result is jarring. In an attempt to develop Harry's inner monologe (and another tired fight with Ron), Rowling drops the social politics that made Book 5 great, and misses the mark with rounding out Harry, Hermione, or -- yes -- Ron. They're removed from the Wizarding World for so long, that the build-up to war and mass genocide washes away.

Lastly, the ending is a bit wonky. Rowling takes us down another jolly Pensieve jaunt (ugh) to relate the good nature and back story of a key character. While it resolves the question of "Is he good? Is he bad?" the end result is that only Harry Potter and the reader truly know. I doubt we'll be seeing his portrait up at Hogwarts at any time in the future, as no one else will know his true motives -- it was a rather shoddy resolution to a much-publicized character.

More, Voldemort's end is rather anticlimactic and a bit confusing. The Deathstick chose Malfoy? Expelliarmus? Huh buh wha? Rowling's desire to leave Harry as the "unkilling hero" and the villain as "hoist by his own petard" echos hollow and insincere. C'est la vie.

And yes, the Epilogue is one, giant, fan-service barf. It offers no closure except to the myriad of teenaged fan-shippers who want to know "HARRY/HERMIONE?! HARRY/GINNY?! HARRY/CHO?! RON/HERMIONE?! RON/LUNA?! HERMIONE/KRUM?!" et cetera. Blargh.

One final gripe: I always felt magic was handled poorly in this series. These "mature, of age" wizards always use the same basic spells and potions we knew from Books 1 and 2. Wingardium Leviosa? Alohomora? Expelliarmus? Polyjuice Potion? They all come out in force here. This is a critique on the series as a whole, mind, and not just book 7. So little time was ever given to their studies as wizards that their knowledge never expanded beyond what they learned in their first few adventures (or whatever Hermione can whip out of her bag-o-know-it-all-tricks on any given occasion. I love Hermione, mind, and felt she was woefully underused in this book). But I digress.

But don't let these minor criticisms hamper your excitement of the book. After all, they're just that -- criticisms -- and Harry Potter is not exempt from them.

Rowling had a fabulous set-up, fabulous Hogwarts battle, and some amazing subtext. It did come off disjoined and felt as though she was playing to the franchise (and inevitable movie) in the end, but it's definitely better than the last installment, and an enjoyable read.

And the deaths? Peh. Much ado about nothing.

4 stars.

WORSE THAN:
Order of the Phoenix
Goblet of Fire

ON PAR WITH:
Prisoner of Azkaban

BETTER THAN:
Sorceror's Stone
Chamber of Secrets

SALVAGED:
Half-Blood Prince

[Adam West]

Ron doesn't "speak" it, so much as imitate it being spoken. He reproduces (badly) the sounds he heard Harry make, without understanding them, much as if you heard a smattering of any language you don't know but can phonetically repeat.

Yeah, I just think it was a bit far fetched that Ron could replicate something that he heard like twice for the last 7 years. Not that bothered though, like I said, some minor gripe.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Half Blood Prince is actually probably my favorite in the series next to this one.

I like how it was thoughtful and such.

[kmeyers]

I posted my review today, so I'll share my thoughts.

I'll come out and say it: I loathed Book 6 (Half-Blood Prince) with a fury of a thousand suns. JK Rowling seemed to phone it in, telling most of the story through her pet plot device (the Pensieve), a little deus-ex-machina (Felix Felicis), and too much unnecessary angst (oh, the SNOGGING)!

Thankfully, JK has thrown much of this out of the window, instead creating a gripping, on-the-run "DaVinci Code"-lite.

Instead of falling into the cyclical nature of the previous installments -- Harry on Privet Drive; Harry experiences an expository set-up; Harry goes to Hogwarts; Harry/Ron/Hermione face challenges; Harry/Ron/Hermione uncover the villain; Harry/Ron/Hermione beat said villain; Every one goes home "HAPPY SUMMER! SEE YOU NEXT YEAR!" -- "Deathly Hallows" turns the book on its ear. Our main trio do not go to Hogwarts, instead continuing on their quest to destroy the 7 Horcruxes that comprise Voldemort's soul.

In effect, this is the only installment of the series that deviates from the old formula, and it is rather refreshing. JK has a fabulous set-up -- the Ministry of Magic falls under Voldemort, while Voldemort and his "Death Eaters" go about to kill normal "Muggles" and those wizards not of a pure-blood lineage.

It's reminiscent of Rowling's aplomb in handling man vs. bureaucracy as seen in "Order of the Phoenix." Instead, "Deathly Hallows" -- at the end of the day -- underlines a strong sense of liberalism vs. conservatism. Multiculturalism vs. uniformity. She touches upon wizards not only defending "mudbloods" or "half-bloods," but also defending House Elves, defending Goblins, and touches on "controversial" weddings: the marriage between a Half-Veela and a Wizard, and the conception of a Werewolf and Animagus. It's a fantastic, if not entirely new, subtext.

Given this, Book 7 is a satisfying read, conjoining a bit of idealism with fast-paced mystery.

Yet it lags in aspiring to be a "Harry Potter" novel. Several pages are wasted on tying up loose ends and tying in old standbys. There is a requisite squabble between the "Trio." And much of it reads as though JK was writing for some "fantastic summer blockbuster" (whereas Book 6 will make for a pitiful film overall) than to drive the point home.

As others have said, the entire concept of the "Deathly Hallows" seems tacked on, deviating from the much better Horcrux plot. Of course, it serves as a weak "desire vs. responsibility" debate for Harry, but this is resolved rather quickly and without any genuine character growth. Essentially, it is a wasted sub-plot, and aside from the catchy sound of it, not worthy of the book's title.
I didn't think that the Deathly Hallows were tacked on at all. They played quite a significant role in Harry, and Dumbledore's stories.


And, to echo further sentiment, the beginning of the book drags, and drags, and drags. Aside from a tight, gripping trip-to-and-escape-from the Ministry of Magic, the entire "Muggle Sympathizer!" and "Round up the Mudbloods!" subplot is entirely dropped. The result is jarring.
I thought it was pretty much nonstop action from the first chapter. I had trouble putting the book down at times


In an attempt to develop Harry's inner monologe (and another tired fight with Ron), Rowling drops the social politics that made Book 5 great, and misses the mark with rounding out Harry, Hermione, or -- yes -- Ron. They're removed from the Wizarding World for so long, that the build-up to war and mass genocide washes away.

Lastly, the ending is a bit wonky. Rowling takes us down another jolly Pensieve jaunt (ugh) to relate the good nature and back story of a key character. While it resolves the question of "Is he good? Is he bad?" the end result is that only Harry Potter and the reader truly know. I doubt we'll be seeing his portrait up at Hogwarts at any time in the future, as no one else will know his true motives -- it was a rather shoddy resolution to a much-publicized character.
Harry told everyone about Snape, he even made it his child's middle name. Snape's story in the pensieve was one of my favorite chapters in the book. I thought it pulled everything together nicely.


More, Voldemort's end is rather anticlimactic and a bit confusing. The Deathstick chose Malfoy? Expelliarmus? Huh buh wha? Rowling's desire to leave Harry as the "unkilling hero" and the villain as "hoist by his own petard" echos hollow and insincere. C'est la vie.
The wand didn't choose Draco, he won it by defeating Dumbledore. Noone said you have to kill the previous owner of the wand, just defeat them in a duel. Draco did exactly that, and then Harry defeated Draco and took his wand.

[Frodo-X]

Regarding the Patronus being easy now:

Remember, it was highly advanced magic for Harry because he was only a third year when he learned. Then, as a fifth year, it was still fairly advanced for him, but now Dumbledore's Army consists mostly of witches and wizards who are of age, and the Order is obviously full of powerful people. I don't think it diminishes the effect of it having a lot of people do it, I think it just shows how advanced it was for Harry at the time that he learned it.

[Frodo-X]

Lastly, the ending is a bit wonky. Rowling takes us down another jolly Pensieve jaunt (ugh) to relate the good nature and back story of a key character. While it resolves the question of "Is he good? Is he bad?" the end result is that only Harry Potter and the reader truly know. I doubt we'll be seeing his portrait up at Hogwarts at any time in the future, as no one else will know his true motives -- it was a rather shoddy resolution to a much-publicized character.

I'm sure Harry will tell people and, given what had just happened, they'll be inclined to believe anything he says. Plus, the memories are still in the Pensieve for anyone to look at.

[twilight]

Sorry, still not buying it. Thanks anyway.

By the way, we know that Harry named his second child Albus Severus Potter. Any bets that the first is James Sirius Potter?

I wondered that myself.

It seems strange that Snape would get some naming and Sirius didn't.

[Novaya Havoc]

Half Blood Prince is actually probably my favorite in the series next to this one.

I like how it was thoughtful and such.

Heh. I shall share with you, Vash, my review of Book 6 from July, 2005:

The book jacket promises us that the Wizarding world is at war. The stakes are high. Voldemort is back. People are dying left and right...


... and yet, it all manages to take a back seat to Harry looking for Draco on the Marauder's Map. Give me a break.


- Write yourself into a hole? REFERENCE THE PAST WORKS AD NAUSEAM!
J.K. Rowling's latest installment is overbloated with references to her past five works -- a desperate attempt on her part to remind the reader, "But wait! Remember these OTHER FIVE GOOD BOOKS I've written?" Clearly, Rowling coasted on her past successes, creating a novel that is ultimately schizophrenic, disjointed, and highly predictable.

- Secondary Characters: GET IN THE BACK!
All of the characters masterfully juggled in Order of the Phoenix and Goblet of Fire are dropped from the face of the Wizarding World in the Half-Blood Prince. Crabbe and Goyle? Nada. The Patil Twins? Mentioned in passing. Luna Lovegood and Neville Longbottom? A few lines. Creeveys? Susan Bones? McGonagall? Umbridge? Fudge? Check, check, check, check, and CHECK. Worst of all: CHO CHANG has not one line in this entire novel! Not ONE! After all of the pain and trials of books 4 and 5, Cho Chang is just... gone?

- Main Characters: RESUME YOUR POSITIONS!
So you might wonder "So what? Cutting the fat leaves more time for our heroes!" WRONG! The characters degenerate into the worst kinds of stereotypes: Fleur Delacour is now a wispy ditz that the others despise. Hermione receives almost no development other than a pointless jealous streak. Ron Weasely is still second best, and Malfoy is still up-to-no-good. Aside from a few well-scripted scenes of Harry confronting certain characters, the characters remain two-dimensional.

- The World at War: LET'S TALK ABOUT IT IN NARRATIVE!
Order of the Phoenix showed the stakes. The Ministry was clamping down. Harry was being punished. The D.A. was suspenseful and added good amounts of action. The students' battle with the Death Eaters was a harrowing moment. In this book, characters die because the Daily Prophet told-us-so. The world is a horrifying place because (insert character here) says it is. The stakes are high because Dumbledore is... OFFERING HARRY PRIVATE LESSONS! This book was about as "dark" as Chamber of Secrets.

- Good vs. Evil: SIDES ARE ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS!
All of the conspiracy, and planning, and resistance is gone from this book. In Book 5, the adults had the Order of the Phoenix to withstand the terror of Voldemort. The kids had the Defense Association to defy the denial-ridden and authoritarian Ministry. In Book 6, there are no bad guys. All of the students are still in school. Malfoy's father is in prison for being a Death Eater, but Draco can still go to Hogwarts with nary a single bit of surveillance.

- Understanding Our Enemy: TALK, TALK, TALK YOUR HEAD OFF!
So we're learning about Voldemort. But we never encounter Voldemort. We instead talk about him. Talk, talk, talk. For two basic points (Voldemort is a lone ranger, Voldemort likes shiny things) J.K. devotes a good third of the book. It's a lot of fun, I assure you.

- Sticky Plot Situation? USE SOME OMNI-MAGIC!
While Harry is using spells Hermione used on Neville in Book 1 (Petrificus Totalus against a Crucio? Ooookay) to attack enemies, J.K. decides to implement scores of uber-powerful magic spells to get her out of plot holes. First we have Felix Felicis -- the most amazing magic ever. If Quirrel would drink some of this before going after Harry, we wouldn't have even had book 2. Want to learn about Voldemort's past? Use the all-knowing Penseive! Death Eaters need to get into the castle? Use a mini-portal!

There is no hierarchy of magic in this book, to be sure.

Ultimately, it's just weak writing. The events of the past books are forgotten, in an effort to propel the characters' personal lives. Situations, groupings, and relationships already established dissolve for contrite pairings and one-dimensional subplots.
And the stakes are not even high. Nothing remotely bad happens until "THE DEATH" and even then we have a less interesting fight than the end of Book 5. Mind you, I am not one of those people who dislikes the book because of "THE DEATH." It was predictable, and J.K. set this up so obviously that I am surprised at the number of people who took the bait.

In essence, the murderer was not one by choice, the murdered wanted to be killed, and it will all work out to the benefit of Harry Potter. The locket subplot is easy enough; everything J.K. makes a point of showing in this book is for a reason. Dan Brown, she is not. Expect Mundungus and Sirius' Old Estate to factor in Book 7.

The book was not bad because it was "upsetting" -- it was bad because it did not propel the story. It did not raise the stakes. It did not present a world at the edge of its precipice. Voldemort, with his legions of Death Eaters, and Giants, and Werewolves, and Vampires, and Imperi, and Dementors should be a force to rival Sauron's, and yet, we're treated to some Daily Prophet headlines in between hearing about Ron making out with Lavender Brown.

These 5-star reviews are only because this book has "Harry Potter" on it. It is the worst book of the series -- no question about it.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I thought 6 was the way to take the book. Its not like harry was going to go to war.

It aloud for the war and conflict to build outside the characters in such a way as to remind them that they are kids. Sort of contracted back to the microcosm of the school after building and building. See suspicions and betrayal, real or otherwise, in a much narrower sense. Isolate the kids in a way from the adult world they would soon join.

It had to go back to harry and riddle alone so as to refocus on the very basics before expanding again.


And such.

[sephirothskiller]

I posted my review today, so I'll share my thoughts.

I'll come out and say it: I loathed Book 6 (Half-Blood Prince) with a fury of a thousand suns. JK Rowling seemed to phone it in, telling most of the story through her pet plot device (the Pensieve), a little deus-ex-machina (Felix Felicis), and too much unnecessary angst (oh, the SNOGGING)!

Thankfully, JK has thrown much of this out of the window, instead creating a gripping, on-the-run "DaVinci Code"-lite.

Instead of falling into the cyclical nature of the previous installments -- Harry on Privet Drive; Harry experiences an expository set-up; Harry goes to Hogwarts; Harry/Ron/Hermione face challenges; Harry/Ron/Hermione uncover the villain; Harry/Ron/Hermione beat said villain; Every one goes home "HAPPY SUMMER! SEE YOU NEXT YEAR!" -- "Deathly Hallows" turns the book on its ear. Our main trio do not go to Hogwarts, instead continuing on their quest to destroy the 7 Horcruxes that comprise Voldemort's soul.

In effect, this is the only installment of the series that deviates from the old formula, and it is rather refreshing. JK has a fabulous set-up -- the Ministry of Magic falls under Voldemort, while Voldemort and his "Death Eaters" go about to kill normal "Muggles" and those wizards not of a pure-blood lineage.

It's reminiscent of Rowling's aplomb in handling man vs. bureaucracy as seen in "Order of the Phoenix." Instead, "Deathly Hallows" -- at the end of the day -- underlines a strong sense of liberalism vs. conservatism. Multiculturalism vs. uniformity. She touches upon wizards not only defending "mudbloods" or "half-bloods," but also defending House Elves, defending Goblins, and touches on "controversial" weddings: the marriage between a Half-Veela and a Wizard, and the conception of a Werewolf and Animagus. It's a fantastic, if not entirely new, subtext.

Given this, Book 7 is a satisfying read, conjoining a bit of idealism with fast-paced mystery.

Yet it lags in aspiring to be a "Harry Potter" novel. Several pages are wasted on tying up loose ends and tying in old standbys. There is a requisite squabble between the "Trio." And much of it reads as though JK was writing for some "fantastic summer blockbuster" (whereas Book 6 will make for a pitiful film overall) than to drive the point home.

As others have said, the entire concept of the "Deathly Hallows" seems tacked on, deviating from the much better Horcrux plot. Of course, it serves as a weak "desire vs. responsibility" debate for Harry, but this is resolved rather quickly and without any genuine character growth. Essentially, it is a wasted sub-plot, and aside from the catchy sound of it, not worthy of the book's title.

And, to echo further sentiment, the beginning of the book drags, and drags, and drags. Aside from a tight, gripping trip-to-and-escape-from the Ministry of Magic, the entire "Muggle Sympathizer!" and "Round up the Mudbloods!" subplot is entirely dropped. The result is jarring. In an attempt to develop Harry's inner monologe (and another tired fight with Ron), Rowling drops the social politics that made Book 5 great, and misses the mark with rounding out Harry, Hermione, or -- yes -- Ron. They're removed from the Wizarding World for so long, that the build-up to war and mass genocide washes away.

Lastly, the ending is a bit wonky. Rowling takes us down another jolly Pensieve jaunt (ugh) to relate the good nature and back story of a key character. While it resolves the question of "Is he good? Is he bad?" the end result is that only Harry Potter and the reader truly know. I doubt we'll be seeing his portrait up at Hogwarts at any time in the future, as no one else will know his true motives -- it was a rather shoddy resolution to a much-publicized character.

More, Voldemort's end is rather anticlimactic and a bit confusing. The Deathstick chose Malfoy? Expelliarmus? Huh buh wha? Rowling's desire to leave Harry as the "unkilling hero" and the villain as "hoist by his own petard" echos hollow and insincere. C'est la vie.

And yes, the Epilogue is one, giant, fan-service barf. It offers no closure except to the myriad of teenaged fan-shippers who want to know "HARRY/HERMIONE?! HARRY/GINNY?! HARRY/CHO?! RON/HERMIONE?! RON/LUNA?! HERMIONE/KRUM?!" et cetera. Blargh.

One final gripe: I always felt magic was handled poorly in this series. These "mature, of age" wizards always use the same basic spells and potions we knew from Books 1 and 2. Wingardium Leviosa? Alohomora? Expelliarmus? Polyjuice Potion? They all come out in force here. This is a critique on the series as a whole, mind, and not just book 7. So little time was ever given to their studies as wizards that their knowledge never expanded beyond what they learned in their first few adventures (or whatever Hermione can whip out of her bag-o-know-it-all-tricks on any given occasion. I love Hermione, mind, and felt she was woefully underused in this book). But I digress.

But don't let these minor criticisms hamper your excitement of the book. After all, they're just that -- criticisms -- and Harry Potter is not exempt from them.

Rowling had a fabulous set-up, fabulous Hogwarts battle, and some amazing subtext. It did come off disjoined and felt as though she was playing to the franchise (and inevitable movie) in the end, but it's definitely better than the last installment, and an enjoyable read.

And the deaths? Peh. Much ado about nothing.

4 stars.

WORSE THAN:
Order of the Phoenix
Goblet of Fire

ON PAR WITH:
Prisoner of Azkaban

BETTER THAN:
Sorceror's Stone
Chamber of Secrets

SALVAGED:
Half-Blood Prince

Other than a few minor things, (I would replace the rankings of Order and Azkaban due to some characterization manglings in Order) I agree with most of this review. Of course they affected my enjoyment of the story more than they should have, but I'm a demanding reader. DaVinci Code lite doesn't do anything for someone who didn't like the DaVinci Code either :D .

Brava Review Novaya.

[Frodo-X]

Dobby's death 'much ado about nothing'? Have ye no heart?!

[Novaya Havoc]

Other than a few minor things, (I would replace the rankings of Order and Azkaban due to some characterization manglings in Order) I agree with most of this review. Of course they affected my enjoyment of the story more than they should have, but I'm a demanding reader. DaVinci Code lite doesn't do anything for someone who didn't like the DaVinci Code either :D .

Brava Review Novaya.

Thank you! I really enjoyed the book, and didn't want the criticisms to come off as "cynical."

The cynic in me would have said that Rowling character-assassinated Dumbledore to push up Harry (as was done with Hermione over the past couple of books).

But I prefer not to read it that way. Couldn't put it down. :D

[Novaya Havoc]

Dobby's death 'much ado about nothing'? Have ye no heart?!

That was the only death that gave me pause. But given all the fuss over "WHO DIES IN BOOK 7?!?" none of the deaths had any significance. In fact all of them EXCEPT Dobby's were glazed over and given no time to sink in.

I'll say it affected me more than Dumbledore's, though.

[Frodo-X]

That was the only death that gave me pause. But given all the fuss over "WHO DIES IN BOOK 7?!?" none of the deaths had any significance. In fact all of them EXCEPT Dobby's were glazed over and given no time to sink in.

I'll say it affected me more than Dumbledore's, though.

I can see that. Fred's affected me, but that's probably because I loved the twins.

As for Dumbledore's, it did affect me a bit, but not as much as I'd have thought. Perhaps because he was old and pretty much had to go in order for Harry to be the one dealing with Voldemort.

Probably one that affected me the least was Sirius. Most likely because he just fell into that damn curtain, it never seemed like he died so much as he just went away.

[Frodo-X]

You know one thing (not story related) that annoys me? I see that you can buy the boxed set of the books in a case that looks like a trunk. I really hate when they do stuff like that. Seems like if anyone should get the special stuff, it's the people who cared enough to buy the things as they came out, and not the Johnny-Come-Latelys. At least with the LotR EE DVDs they let you mail in to get it. Same with FRIENDS. But if I wanted that trunk, I'd have to buy the entire set of books again, and then keep the trunk and give the books to someone else.

It's just not right.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

ill probably rebuy them all anyway. I want hardcovers instead of paperbacks.

[Michael P]

Also, from perusing the leaky cauldron website a few months ago, I recall there's quotes from Rowling that indicate Harry's series is set in the past, they've gone and worked out the entire timeline. '19 years later' sets them well and truly in... current time, now. I think. Has that been done for a reason?

I worked it out, actually. If the Potters died in 1981, then the series started in 1991 and ended in 1998, which puts the epilogue at 2017.

(Although how Dudley owned a Playstation in 1992, I have no idea...)

[kmeyers]

I worked it out, actually. If the Potters died in 1981, then the series started in 1991 and ended in 1998, which puts the epilogue at 2017.

(Although how Dudley owned a Playstation in 1992, I have no idea...)

Magic?


.

[Constantine Drakon]

Pretty much everything I could say has been said already. Excellent book, the ending blew me away and had my heart racing.

As for Bellatrix's death? Knowing her, she'd been fighting from the very begining, wheras Mrs. Weasley seemed "fresh", and Bellatrix was an arrogant bitch that didn't take her opponent seriously, up against a woman that didn't give a fiddler's fart about her own safety so long as she got her vengeance. And, oh yes... Bellatrix didn't have her own wand. Just throwing that out there.

I don't see any problem with it.

[Adam West]

It's more metpahorical than that.

Lily's eyes always come up in the same context. Harry looks almost exactly like his father, but with Lily's eyes.

James was driven and talented and succesful. He loved his frinds dearly. Sometimes not wisely. But he was also a touch rash and a bit of a bully. Everything we've seen of James shows that he tends to see the world in very black-and-white terms.

Lily, however, is more thoughtful and more compassionate. Where James would torment Snape, Lily saw his better qualities. Lily was more studious than James and a gentling influence on him. And, when it came right down to the ultimate test, a more powerful witch than James was a wizard. When facing Voldemort her love and sheer force of will saved Harry.

Harry has a lot of his father's qualities. The bravado, the drive, the talent. He looks like his father. But his eyes are Lily's eyes. He sees with more compassion than James did. He loves more fiercely than James did. He looks like his father, but he has his mother's eyes, her way of seeing.

Harry is a combination of the best of both his parents. But it is his mother's capacity to love and to try and see the best in people that enabled him to get as far as he did, to learn enough to defeat Voldemort.

missed this post before.
I love it, give me a new perspective. I never actually see that that way. Thanks

[Crimson]

- I wish we'd heard of Grindlewald before. (Or did we, and I forgot about it?) Surely, in all the discussions of the history of Voldemort and Dumbledore, someone should have mentioned the other great Dark wizard who threatened to take over the world, until Dumbledore stopped him.


He was mentioned on the first ever Magic Frog card Harry got.

[mattbib]

First book of the series that I've read upon release. Loved it.

Really was shocked by the deaths of Hedwig and Dobby. Not so much by the others, though I was definitely saddened by Fred's death. I never thought that a main character would be killed, so I'd been fearful of the twins' futures since JKR's announcement. I was also sad to see Severus go, especially given the later (predicted) proof of his true loyalties. Lupin and Tonks...could have used a little more emotional impact. I actually think I was affected by Dudley's good-bye more.

Yeah...a lot of "fanboy" moments, but that's to be expected. As others have mentioned, there were enough twists to make them forgivable. Among them, the fact that neither Sirius or Dumbledure returned from the dead.

I'm was actually in the middle of re-reading Goblet of Fire. I'll have to finish it and then re-read Half-Blood Prince, as HBP is the one I remember least (largely since there's been no movie). And then I'll probably re-read DH again.

[Crimson]

I tell you what interested me most closing this book... who they would cast in for "19 Years Later".

It'll be quiet interesting to see a nearly 40 Harry Potter.

[Jmacq1]

I tell you what interested me most closing this book... who they would cast in for "19 Years Later".

It'll be quiet interesting to see a nearly 40 Harry Potter.

Heh, I wondered about that myself. Whether they'd try to use makeup and CG to "age" the actors that play the characters or whether they'd re-cast entirely.

Though to be truthful, as long a movie as this book's likely to turn out to be (there's just too much necessary exposition and subplot resolution for it not to be), I wouldn't be surprised if the epilogue just never makes it on-screen. Harry's last line as a young man makes for a decent enough ending, and the "Happily Ever After" can be safely assumed just from that (and the inevitable shot of Harry, Ron, and Hermione trotting arm-in-arm out of the Headmaster's office).

I was mostly satisfied with the ending we got, though at the very least I would've liked to have seen Ginny and Harry's reunion. Or to have had him take her along with Ron and Hermione for all the explanations and such.

[Crimson]

Heh, I wondered about that myself. Whether they'd try to use makeup and CG to "age" the actors that play the characters or whether they'd re-cast entirely.

Though to be truthful, as long a movie as this book's likely to turn out to be (there's just too much necessary exposition and subplot resolution for it not to be), I wouldn't be surprised if the epilogue just never makes it on-screen.

I think it's more likely to get filmed and included on the DVD.

That way it avoids an even longer run time, and a big incentive for people who don't get the books to get the DVD.

I think it's too much of a happy ending for children for it not to be included in one form or another.

[Ring Slinger]

I tell you what interested me most closing this book... who they would cast in for "19 Years Later".

It'll be quiet interesting to see a nearly 40 Harry Potter.

Not a problem-- by the time they finally finish making the movies, Daniel, Rupert, and Emma will all be in their 30s anyway. :D

[Jmacq1]

Not a problem-- by the time they finally finish making the movies, Daniel, Rupert, and Emma will all be in their 30s anyway. :D

*snickers*

Well, given that HBP comes out late next year (November), I'd wager the latest we get Deathly Hallows is Spring/Summer of 2010. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it squeaked under the wire for Winter 2009. Still, the "summer blockbuster" release for the grand finale seems quite likely. If anything, this book will definitely make for an exciting movie.

The nice thing about the Potter movies is that a lot of the design work, etc... is already done. They don't quite film concurrently, but it's pretty darn close (just a few months' break in-between).

Besides, it'd hardly be the first time that people in their early-mid-late 20's have played teenagers on screen. ;)

[Frodo-X]

*snickers*

Well, given that HBP comes out late next year (November), I'd wager the latest we get Deathly Hallows is Spring/Summer of 2010. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it squeaked under the wire for Winter 2009. Still, the "summer blockbuster" release for the grand finale seems quite likely. If anything, this book will definitely make for an exciting movie.

The nice thing about the Potter movies is that a lot of the design work, etc... is already done. They don't quite film concurrently, but it's pretty darn close (just a few months' break in-between).

Besides, it'd hardly be the first time that people in their early-mid-late 20's have played teenagers on screen. ;)
The 7th Movie is already planned for Summer of 2010, in keeping with how the series has gone. With the exception of Chamber coming only a year after Stone, they've all had about a year-and-a-half gaps between releases.

Sorcerer's Stone - November 2001
Chamber of Secrets - November 2002
Prisoner of Azkaban - May 2004
Goblet of Fire - November 2005
Order of the Phoenix - July 2007
Half-Blood Prince - November 2008
Deathly Hallows - Summer 2010

[Nate C.]

I had it read by Saturday afternoon.


I loved it. I had minor quibles. Nothing of note. Thought it was poignont, true, and wonderful.

I'm so happy for Harry Potter. He deserved this ending.


Rowling had earned a spot alongside Tolkein, Lewis, L'Engle and the older classics.

[saintsaucey]

I was so pissed that i finished the book and then couldn't get online imediatly after words and start talking about it. My internet was down all weekend.

So i accidentally looked at this thread before getting the book and knew about the rebounding spell thing. Then on the way to the midnight release party I stopped to pick up some comic books and a guy blurted out "oh by the way Hermione dies" I was fladbergasted and pissed off. I tried to forget what he said but then as I read the book i kept expecting it at every major battle and skirmish. Infact at the beginning of the book i fully expected her to be the one hovering above the table. I thought maybe it was JK's revenge that she didn't want to be in the last two movies. So i was somewhat relieved that she didn't bite the bullet in the book.

I loved the book. though that wasn't my initial opinion. I was disappointed. it left you in a lurch at some points and dragged on during others. but after thinking about it. rereading the last two chapters or rather the last chapter and epilogue I've desided that the book was fantastic. Nevelle was a bad ass pure and simple. Can't wait to see him in the movie.

I felt disappointed by the character assassination of dumbledore though. she'd spent six books making him into this great man. and then in the end everything that rita said about him was essentialy true.

i think the deaths of Snape and Fred were the biggest two death's in the book followed by remus, tonks, moody colin creevy and hedwig

[sephirothskiller]

Rowling had earned a spot alongside Tolkien, Lewis, L'Engle and the older classics.

I would put Tolkien above all of those including Rowling.

Classic Fantasy Hierarchy:

Tolkien
|
Lewis, L'Engle, Rowling, Brian Jaques, Others.

Actually, I might demote L'Engle from that company...

[Jmacq1]

I felt disappointed by the character assassination of dumbledore though. she'd spent six books making him into this great man. and then in the end everything that rita said about him was essentialy true.

It was, yet it wasn't. Rita didn't have all the facts, and so concocted a half-baked story that twisted things into a "worst case scenario." The basic story was true, but the conclusions drawn from it were absolutely wrong.

The real truth is that Dumbledore was an ambitious, driven, and highly talented young man that was tempted towards darkness by the only guy he'd ever met that came to the level of "equal" with him. It's not so surprising, really...imagine if you were so brilliant that there was virtually no one around you could talk to, and then all of the sudden you meet someone that seems to completely understand you. Anyway, after tragedy struck, he realized his mistakes and spent the rest of his life trying to atone for them.

He was a good man. Not a saint, but a good man who made some bad decisions early on, and paid dearly for them. Sure he was manipulative and pragmatic at times, but I never got the impression that he didn't truly care for Harry, nor that his image as the Headmaster of Hogwart's was really "false" in any way.

[Erebus]

I would put Tolkien above all of those including Rowling.

Classic Fantasy Hierarchy:

Tolkien
|
Lewis, L'Engle, Rowling, Brian Jaques, Others.

Actually, I might demote L'Engle from that company...

Heh. I can see why people like Tolkien, but I've never been able to wrap my head around it. BTW, the funniest thing I ever saw was a fist fight between a guy dressed as Harry Potter and a guy dressed as Gimli.

[Erebus]

First book of the series that I've read upon release. Loved it.

Really was shocked by the deaths of Hedwig and Dobby. Not so much by the others, though I was definitely saddened by Fred's death. I never thought that a main character would be killed, so I'd been fearful of the twins' futures since JKR's announcement. I was also sad to see Severus go, especially given the later (predicted) proof of his true loyalties. Lupin and Tonks...could have used a little more emotional impact. I actually think I was affected by Dudley's good-bye more.

Yeah...a lot of "fanboy" moments, but that's to be expected. As others have mentioned, there were enough twists to make them forgivable. Among them, the fact that neither Sirius or Dumbledure returned from the dead.

Agree with everything you said, although I wondered why didn't Dumbledore's painting come rushing to help Harry once he came to Hogwarts.

[Zero Hunter]

That was the only death that gave me pause. But given all the fuss over "WHO DIES IN BOOK 7?!?" none of the deaths had any significance. In fact all of them EXCEPT Dobby's were glazed over and given no time to sink in.

I'll say it affected me more than Dumbledore's, though.

See I think all the characters die talk really gave the book a more urgent feel becuase you didn't know who was going to live and who was going to die. I didn't really think any of the main 3 were going to die, but it did make me think I was wrong in more than a few spots with the posibility that it might. After Hedgewick and Mad Eye were killed off so early in the book you definetly got the feeling that nealry anyone could be next especilly with this being the last book. I would have bet money that Neville was a gonner right there at the end, and had big doubts about Hagrid when the spiders took him.

To me that made the book a much more fun read because I know that characters were going to die.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

right, so how did Longbottom get Gryffindor's sword?

[Erebus]

right, so how did Longbottom get Gryffindor's sword?

According to Wiki, anyone who's in danger and showing true courage can get the sword. Though I have no idea how it got away from Griphook. Just magic, I guess.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I was thinking that, but would have liked to see it laid out.
glad Neville stepped up though. And his Gran so proud.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I think i might have liked Harry to have actually died.

Hmmm


Also anyone else think Hagrid kicked the bucket with that chapter title after the bike crash?

[Jmacq1]

I think Hagrid was Rowling's "red herring" for the entire book. He had more "close calls" than just about anyone in the book.

[Toonimator]

I was thinking that, but would have liked to see it laid out.
glad Neville stepped up though. And his Gran so proud.
I think they laid it out nicely enough: they explained that the sword could be found by any true Gryffindor, and revealed it in the book the same way Harry got it in Chamber of Secrets: by pulling it from the Sorting Hat. The sword wasn't really Griphook's or the goblins anyway, they just THOUGHT it was theirs by right because Godric was dead, so his 'rental' was ended. It really belonged at Hogwarts.

The part about Voldemort's death I didn't like was simply that it was split between 2 pages. I felt like a kid with a read-along book & record, and the chime sounding to turn the page right in the middle of the action.

Someone earlier wondered how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald: I think it MAY have been similar to what happened to Voldemort. The wand didn't recognize Grindelwald as its true master because he didn't defeat or disarm the previous owner. He just took it. At least, that's my take on it.

[Toboe]

I mostly agree with Novaya's review. It was a great read, but I did not like the ending. After all the massive buildup, Voldemort goes and dies just like that. And then we didn't even get the aftermath, but a cheese fanfic-ish lame epilogue. And what was the effing point of killing Tonks and Lupin off-panel which made for no impact at all? What happened to their son (besides snogging who I presume is Bill and Fleur's daughter)?
Wasn't Lavender bit by Fenrir? What about that?
What happened to Luna?
I just felt it left too many unresolved in favor of that dreadful happy ending unnecessary epilogue.

[MKTerra]

Someone earlier wondered how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald: I think it MAY have been similar to what happened to Voldemort. The wand didn't recognize Grindelwald as its true master because he didn't defeat or disarm the previous owner. He just took it. At least, that's my take on it.Hey, that's a good point... but it does lead to the question of how the ownership passed to Dumbledore, if Grindelwald wasn't its owner. It's a plot hole if the ownership had stayed with Gregorovitch, who Voldemort killed...

Edit: Well, Grindelwald shot a stunning spell before leaping out the window. If it actually hit Gregorovitch, I guess that would count.

Incidentally, the exact words Grindelwald used were "I never had it." It's kind of a pity, since a more ambiguous phrase, like "It was never mine," would've given the theory some extra support.

[Frodo-X]

Wasn't Lavender bit by Fenrir? What about that?


No, I think he was about to bite her when he was blasted away. I don't think he ever actually managed to sink his teeth in.

[Frodo-X]

Hey, that's a good point... but it does lead to the question of how the ownership passed to Dumbledore, if Grindelwald wasn't its owner. It's a plot hole if the ownership had stayed with Gregorovitch, who Voldemort killed...

Edit: Well, Grindelwald shot a stunning spell before leaping out the window. If it actually hit Gregorovitch, I guess that would count.

Incidentally, the exact words Grindelwald used were "I never had it." It's kind of a pity, since a more ambiguous phrase, like "It was never mine," would've given the theory some extra support.
Only thing is, if it never was Grindlewald's, how did it come to be Dumbledore's when he beat him?

[MKTerra]

Only thing is, if it never was Grindlewald's, how did it come to be Dumbledore's when he beat him?Yeah, pretty much. It's either that, or the question of how Dumbledore overcame the "unbeatable" wand in a duel.

[Toboe]

No, I think he was about to bite her when he was blasted away. I don't think he ever actually managed to sink his teeth in.

Oh right, there was so much going on I didn't caught that and had the idea he actually bit her...
Trelawney throwing crystal balls was neat.

[notyetbreathing]

i skipped to the end of the thread so i dont know if this was brought up yet. jkr said she wasnt going to write any more "harry potter" books. this leads me to believe that she is going to do a Teddy Lupin book(s).

-i choose Ted because he seems to be much more of an interesting character than just having it be harry's kids. he has cooler parents. it wouldnt be "just another wizard book". he's similar enough to harry in that he lost his parents but with him being half werewolf it would add a different sort of flavor to the story.

-it will take place before the 19 years later epilogue and would explain some unanswered fan question like who the new headmaster is (of course its gotta be mcgonagall) and what happened to some of the death eaters

-with voldemort being dead for good it would need a new villain. it would be lame to have the villain to be a remaining death eater trying to follow in voldy's footsteps. the only other person i can think of that is pure evil aside from voldemort is greyback and we dont know what happened to him. we also dont know how exactly tonks and lupin died so that can be retconned into greybacks doing and teddy can try to avenge his fathers death.

-aside from the only line saying bill likes his meat raw now, bills werewolf problem wasnt even mentioned in this book. maybe teddy will receive training from bill on how to keep his inner beast at bay and since he'd be half wizard he could get training from harry at some point too since harry is his godfather.


what do you guys think?

[OzBat!]

If you think about the Elder wand too much, it's scary: mastery of the wand only comes from defeating the previous master of the wand. This has continued unbroken since its creation right down the line to Grindlewald, Dumbledore and then on to Harry. In most of these cases, you'd have to assume that the wizard who defeats the master of the Elder wand must be sufficiently more advanced in power, skill, and prowess than his opponent, to overcome the advantage of the superior wand. It's an escalation of requirements to win the wand, right through its history.

Until you get to Draco, who disarms Dumbledore while his attention is diverted trying to stop Harry from being discovered on the Astronomy tower. If I had to guess, I'd say little events like this MUST have happened throughout its history, just to reset the power level requirements!

[Your Imaginary Pal]

i skipped to the end of the thread so i dont know if this was brought up yet. jkr said she wasnt going to write any more "harry potter" books. this leads me to believe that she is going to do a Teddy Lupin book(s).

-i choose Ted because he seems to be much more of an interesting character than just having it be harry's kids. he has cooler parents. it wouldnt be "just another wizard book". he's similar enough to harry in that he lost his parents but with him being half werewolf it would add a different sort of flavor to the story.


what do you guys think?

I think it's a great Idea, just don't think it will come near the success/popularity of Potter. But I could see some interesting story ideas. I wouldn't expect it from Rowlings any time soon though.

a werewolf/magic story would be very cool and Harry as the Godfather could mean cameos galore.
But I don't think Greyback could match Moldy Voldy as a main villain

[notyetbreathing]

Until you get to Draco, who disarms Dumbledore while his attention is diverted trying to stop Harry from being discovered on the Astronomy tower. If I had to guess, I'd say little events like this MUST have happened throughout its history, just to reset the power level requirements!

i agree completly. if it was a perpetual increase in power, eventually no one would ever be able to claim it. having draco take it seem less perfect and more realistic

[Puma]

I think it's a great Idea, just don't think it will come near the success/popularity of Potter. But I could see some interesting story ideas. I wouldn't expect it from Rowlings any time soon though.

a werewolf/magic story would be very cool and Harry as the Godfather could mean cameos galore.
But I don't think Greyback could match Moldy Voldy as a main villain

But Teddy wouldn't come into his own, even as a beginning wizard, until he is 11. I don't think would take ten years for the remaining Deatheaters to be rounded up and Hogwarts restored. The gap is too big to bridge bt Teddy.

Now it could focus on Neville. Going back to complete his final year at Hogwarts and then the years between his graduation and becoming a professor. He could travel the globe learning about magical plants and having adventures.

but I don't think it likely. Rowlings, when she writes again, will do something different than Harry and Hogwarts is my guess.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I think she would choose a different path as well, with more secrets and discoveries. I would like a lot of the blanks filled as well, I was expecting more of an appendix like at the end of Return of The King. Not a few pages about the far off future.

[notyetbreathing]

Now it could focus on Neville. Going back to complete his final year at Hogwarts and then the years between his graduation and becoming a professor. He could travel the globe learning about magical plants and having adventures.


i like that too. neville is by far my favorite character.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

19 years does seem an odd time to jump forward. Wonder why she chose that.

[Frodo-X]

19 years does seem an odd time to jump forward. Wonder why she chose that.
Could be that she wanted to show Harry's kids going to school, so they have to be at least eleven. Having it be 19 years later means Harry & Ginny were at least together for a few years before they started having kids.

Or it could be something as arbitrary as it's her favorite number or something. Maybe she's a Steve Yzerman fan. :p

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

yeah but why not 20?

[Frodo-X]

yeah but why not 20?
Maybe she's got a thing for Prime Numbers.

After all, there are 7 years of school, which start when you're 11, and Harry & Neville were born on the 31st day of the 7th month.

Down with divisibility!

[notyetbreathing]

Maybe she's got a thing for Prime Numbers.

After all, there are 7 years of school, which start when you're 11, and Harry & Neville were born on the 31st day of the 7th month.

Down with divisibility!

best post ever

[Sean Whitmore]

Two things I disliked about the epilogue:

Out of 6 main(ish) characters shown or mentioned at the end, we only learned what ONE of them grew up to be. Would've thought Harry or Hermione might have gone on to teach, but not even a hint of how they spend their adult lives?

Nobody named their kid Fred, did they? Everyone else got an heir, but not Ron's brother? Where the hell'd "Hugo" and "Rose" come from?

As for the rest of the book, can't think of one thing I'd change. Perfect.


SEAN

[Frodo-X]

Two things I disliked about the epilogue:

Out of 6 main(ish) characters shown or mentioned at the end, we only learned what ONE of them grew up to be. Would've thought Harry or Hermione might have gone on to teach, but not even a hint of how they spend their adult lives?

Nobody named their kid Fred, did they? Everyone else got an heir, but not Ron's brother? Where the hell'd "Hugo" and "Rose" come from?

As for the rest of the book, can't think of one thing I'd change. Perfect.


SEAN
I doubt Harry would have to work, being the hero of the wizarding world and all.

Plus he's still got a fat inheritance sitting at Gringott's, assuming they aren't too pissed about the break-in.

As for Fred, I imagine George would've named a son after him.

[Sean Whitmore]

I doubt Harry would have to work, being the hero of the wizarding world and all.

Probably not, but he's got to spend his days somehow. I can't see him as a househusband or a couch potato.

I'm sure his auror ambitions went out the window, but, y'know, something.



As for Fred, I imagine George would've named a son after him.

I could imagine it too, I just kinda wanted to read it. ;)


SEAN

[Frodo-X]

Probably not, but he's got to spend his days somehow. I can't see him as a househusband or a couch potato.

I'm sure his auror ambitions went out the window, but, y'know, something.




I could imagine it too, I just kinda wanted to read it. ;)


SEAN
That's why I'm hoping that, assuming she doesn't actually want to write another full-on Harry Potter book, she might write a small appendix book about what all the characters went on to do. Maybe for charity like the Quidditch Through the Ages/Fantastic Beasts set she did.

[Sean Whitmore]

That's why I'm hoping that, assuming she doesn't actually want to write another full-on Harry Potter book, she might write a small appendix book about what all the characters went on to do. Maybe for charity like the Quidditch Through the Ages/Fantastic Beasts set she did.

I'd go for that. Maybe an anthology of stories; see how far George's business goes, see Harry's kid try to join the Quidditch team, see Luna take over the Quibbler...there's a wealth of material there.


SEAN

[Inkthinker]

I'm sure his auror ambitions went out the window, but, y'know, something.



Why? I think Harry would still make a wicked Auror, assuming he's not had enough of living dangerously.

Although it's entirely possible that he's TOTALLY had enough of living dangerously.

[Sean Whitmore]

Why? I think Harry would still make a wicked Auror, assuming he's not had enough of living dangerously.

Although it's entirely possible that he's TOTALLY had enough of living dangerously.

Yeah, that was my thinking as well. Especially after having kids, which you'd think would make him more James and a lot less Sirius.


SEAN

[OzBat!]

Being an aurer was about the only ambition he'd ever allowed himself to have, but that was through the lens of fighting Voldemort. Now that that's done, would he still feel any inclination? I guess this depends on what the atmosphere was like in the wizarding world for the next couple of years. Did Harry's deal with Griphook and the Sword's subsequent reclaiming by Neville via the sorting hat (not to mention freeing a dragon and destroying just about everything on its way out of Gringotts) create tensions that fostered a brand new goblin rebellion? THAT could have taken a decade or so to resolve!

If things were calmer, did an entire year's worth of students at Hogwarts have to repeat that year, allowing Harry Hermione and Ron to complete their schooling? Or would the ministry have given their saviours private tutoring instead?

Or maybe, instead of being the silent financial backer Harry moves in to full partnership with George at Weasley's Wizarding Wheazes?

So many possibilities, so dependant on circumstances!

[Fish Sauce]

Two things I disliked about the epilogue:

Out of 6 main(ish) characters shown or mentioned at the end, we only learned what ONE of them grew up to be. Would've thought Harry or Hermione might have gone on to teach, but not even a hint of how they spend their adult lives?

Nobody named their kid Fred, did they? Everyone else got an heir, but not Ron's brother? Where the hell'd "Hugo" and "Rose" come from?

As for the rest of the book, can't think of one thing I'd change. Perfect.


SEAN

I think that Hugo = Hermione and Rosie = Ron, in terms of the first letter of each name.

I agree with your entire post. I also would have liked to know about some other characters.

[Jmacq1]

I'd imagine the Ministry would have "waived" a lot of things for Harry, Ron and Hermione as far as their last year of school goes, and the same for any students that fought at the Battle of Hogwart's/attended that year. I doubt they'd make 'em all repeat.

Besides, the Ministry has other things to worry about...like rebuilding and restructuring itself.

As for Harry, I doubt he pursued any career that kept him in the spotlight. The way people were staring while he was at the station seemed to indicate he hadn't lost any of his "mystique" which would seem likely if he'd been in the public's eye for that whole time. Plus, as noted, he'd "Had enough trouble for one lifetime."

So I doubt he became an Auror (and really, after the Battle of Hogwart's there probably weren't that many Death Eaters left running free, much less any of the really dangerous ones). The whole fame thing would seem to rule out "Professional Quidditch Player" too. For some reason I could see him being the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher...but only for one year, in keeping with "tradition." ;)

For some reason though, I see him becoming a writer. Aside from his inheritance, he could easily support his family (along with whatever Ginny does), by say, writing a DDA textbook, his memoir, and true and accurate biographies of Dumbledore and Snape (so everyone could know the actual truth about them). It'd allow him to retain a semblance of a private life while still making a good living. Alternately, he and Hermione might have parleyed their fame into a crusade for House Elf rights.

Given the time jump, it seems he and Ginny either waited a few years to get married, or got married and then waited a few years to have kids. In either case, I'd imagine that Teddy Lupin might have played a role in that decision. Harry might have wanted to wait until he grew up a little bit before having kids of his own...I'd imagine Harry is very much the father-figure for Teddy. But despite the tragedy of his parents' death, with the "Weasley Extended Family Support Group" Teddy likely never lacked for love and support. ;)

It'd have been nice to know what happened to more of the secondary characters, certainly. I too had the impression Lavender was bitten by Greyback (if not killed), but he was still in human form, so she wouldn't have been a werewolf if she survived...just had Bill Weasley type effects. I know a lot of people were rooting for a Luna/Neville pairing, but Rowling pooh-poohed that idea some time back. Luna just likely...continued being Luna, and was perfectly happy about it.

One little loose end that I found myself really wondering about though:

Did Lucius Malfoy get shipped back to Azkaban after the Battle of Hogwart's? He hadn't finished serving his sentence, after all......

[Sean Whitmore]

I'd imagine the Ministry would have "waived" a lot of things for Harry, Ron and Hermione as far as their last year of school goes, and the same for any students that fought at the Battle of Hogwart's/attended that year. I doubt they'd make 'em all repeat.

Oh, I'm sure of that. The second book proved that Hogwart's isn't all THAT concerned with education. They hand out test waivers like candy.


SEAN

[atoningunifex]

Nobody named their kid Fred, did they? Everyone else got an heir, but not Ron's brother? Where the hell'd "Hugo" and "Rose" come from?


Well, maybe George beat them all to it......

[notyetbreathing]

i too was disappointed about there not being anyone named after fred. i mean did Ginny just sit back and let Harry do all the naming? out of 3 kids they had Ginny didnt have a say-so in any of them? with Ron and Hermione too, did Ron not once think to name one after his brother? i dont think George counts because if JK went through the effort to show Victoir then she woulda went through the effort to show if George had a kid too.

[Dr. Killbydeath]

All I know is that giving a kid the name Albus is bad enough, but adding Severus as well is probably the worst thing you can do to them.

With the whole Fred thing, you're assuming that none of the older siblings named their kids Fred. I mean sure, you can have two Freds that are cousins, but after Bill, Charlie, Percy and George have Freds of their own, it can get confusing. That's probably why Ginny and ROn's kids don't have Weasley centric names, there just aren't enough of them for all six siblings to name their kids with.

[Jmacq1]

Well, Victoire was convenient because it gave Teddy Lupin someone to "marry into" the family with. ;)

I'd imagine there's a "Fred Weasley II" somewhere in that family tree by the time of the epilogue, we just didn't see/hear about them. Likely George's child, yes (assuming he had one), or possibly another child of Bill and Fleur. Who could potentially already be graduated from Hogwart's or not yet ready for it, depending on when he had kids, which would explain the absence.

Though a throwaway line could have clarified that right up. Fred instead of "Hugo" could have worked, but well..."Hugo" does sound like a very "Weasley" style name to me. And yeah, I think they were going for the R&H symmetry.

[notyetbreathing]

hugo sounds like a weasley name because of Hugo Weaving.

[The Anti-Existence]

I'm curious what most people's final verdict is on Dumbledore's character?

Evil as sin? A blend of good and bad?

[BoosterBronze]

I'm curious what most people's final verdict is on Dumbledore's character?

Evil as sin? A blend of good and bad?

Dumbledore was a great man, who had flaws that he strove to overcome and ammend for.

I'd say he was the opposite of Snape, as Snape was a deeply flawed man who found his courage to become great.

[literally exaggerated]

Its interesting that both Dumbledore and Snape were turned away from evil by the deaths of women they loved.

[The Anti-Existence]

Hey, thought:

Snape was a Headmaster of Hogwarts.

So why doesn't he have a portrait in the Headmaster's Office?

[Matthew E]

Presumably he will have a portrait, but when Harry ran up there at the end it had been such a short time since Snape lost the job/died that there just wasn't a portrait there yet.

[Jmacq1]

I'm curious what most people's final verdict is on Dumbledore's character?

Evil as sin? A blend of good and bad?

A good man who made some mistakes early on. Manipulative but compassionate.

[Erebus]

All I know is that giving a kid the name Albus is bad enough, but adding Severus as well is probably the worst thing you can do to them.

At least its not as bad as Nymphadora.

And was Harry truly dead, only to come back to life? Or was he just knocked out?

[DaeJi]

I think he died for all of a second or two, but because of the curious state his soul was in he was able to come back.

[MKTerra]

Hey, thought:

Snape was a Headmaster of Hogwarts.

So why doesn't he have a portrait in the Headmaster's Office?Umbridge was a Headmaster too. That answer your question? :p

[DaeJi]

I think, now that the truth about Snape is known, that he got a portrait.