Lets Pick Apart Greg and Some More

[StrikeForce Albert]

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Oct07/cvrs/ultpwr9.jpg

Ok That Sider-man is clearly an action figure he took a picture of and then traced

edit--my my title sucks

[MartinRedmond]

OMG HE DRAWS BY COPYING WHAT HE SEES THATS UNCONCEIVABULL!!!!!!!!!!!! USING REFERENCE AND TOYS? DISGUTSINGGGgggggggggg1111 :( :rolleyes: :evilangry :evilangry

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=3970464&postcount=40

[Michael P]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=3970464&postcount=40

Holy shit. He seriously traced the lines on a pair of socks.

[dancj]

That's great - The same sofa, the same tray, the same lamp!

He should have given the original picture to the colourist to use as a guide.

[scratchie]

Cool. I finally figured out how to use the CBR forums' ignore list.

[The Xenos]

You know you could have just put this in the current Swipe File folder.

As for Spider-man, I really don't see it. And even if he did trace a Spider-man figure, I don't see the problem with it. Well, not as much as the other one. Aside from the laziness. He'd be using a Marvel figure to draw a Marvel character.

[Dan Apodaca]

Actually, I'm betting he actually drew that Spider-Man. Look at how awkward the figure is. The foot is too large, the head's too small, and the chest looks like he added some extra ribs to Peter's anatomy.

[Sadyv]

Marvel is dumb.

They could save lots of money by getting some high school art student with a computer to replace Greg, and get the same result. And pay him a third the wage.

[dancj]

If 90's Image has taught me one thing it's that if a popular artist's style is easy to copy there'd be loads of people doing it. I don't see many people copying Greg Land

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Does that woman in purple (the biggest image on the page) look like she's having an orgazm on the page ? Its like everyones in a serious mood to go kick ass and she was in that hair commercial where the woman washes her hair with that orgazmic shampoo.

[diablo7]

his thor looks really messed up...his head is small and looks like he's wearing a wig...and look at that arm...when he's stealing images to trace he's bad, when he's drawing on his own he's even worse..

[Dan Apodaca]

If 90's Image has taught me one thing it's that if a popular artist's style is easy to copy there'd be loads of people doing it. I don't see many people copying Greg Land

What do you mean? There are plenty of people out there tracing faces and figures and selling as their art. That's Greg Land's style.

[diablo7]

some things i've seen from al rio look like he's working in the land method

[foxfire]

Does that woman in purple (the biggest image on the page) look like she's having an orgazm on the page ? Its like everyones in a serious mood to go kick ass and she was in that hair commercial where the woman washes her hair with that orgazmic shampoo.

Uh...I was totally thinking the same thing...

[dancj]

What do you mean? There are plenty of people out there tracing faces and figures and selling as their art. That's Greg Land's style.
I haven't noticed any art out there that looks like Land's - even if other people are tracing.

On the other hand in the 90's you couldn't move for all the Lee/McFarlane clones

[StrikeForce Albert]

I haven't noticed any art out there that looks like Land's - even if other people are tracing.

On the other hand in the 90's you couldn't move for all the Lee/McFarlane clones

I've noticed Larocca, or however you spell his name, has taking up tracing faces

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

And Ariel Olivetti seems to have taken up swiping to produce backgrounds.

[maczero]

Does that woman in purple (the biggest image on the page) look like she's having an orgazm on the page ? Its like everyones in a serious mood to go kick ass and she was in that hair commercial where the woman washes her hair with that orgazmic shampoo.I doubt if Land intended this but the facial expression is actually appropriate for that chick. She's batshit crazy and generally gets off on killing.

Wasp, OTOH, looks way too happy and too caucasian in that pic.

[MacQuarrie]

OMG HE DRAWS BY COPYING WHAT HE SEES THATS UNCONCEIVABULL!!!!!!!!!!!! USING REFERENCE AND TOYS? DISGUTSINGGGgggggggggg1111 :( :rolleyes: :evilangry :evilangry

No, he draws by tracing images he did not pay for.

[The Xenos]

Found this image on a message board:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1271/greglandmarvelstampad11jp7.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greglandmarvelstampad11jp7.jpg)

Seems Stan Lee even cameos in Marvel stamp ads now.

[Michael P]

Found this image on a message board:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1271/greglandmarvelstampad11jp7.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greglandmarvelstampad11jp7.jpg)

Seems Stan Lee even cameos in Marvel stamp ads now.

That's obviously an intentional shout-out to Stan. Still kinda silly to trace The Man's press photos, but I'm more concerned about that look on Peter's face in panel 4.

[The Xenos]

Oh, I wasn't complaining about Stan Lee's likeness. I thoguht it was just funny that he's even showing up here. I'm sure he doesn't mind.

As for looks on Peter's face, it's moreso the last panel that creeps me out. Makes me if MJ is just out of the frame.

[4thHorseman]

more from Greg Land

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2788/1153634031712cy7gz1.jpg

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7652/bbsojoo6.jpg


http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/720/hmmmmm4ktwx6.gif

http://www.lubbockonline.net/blogs/slemmons/images/Land-Spidey.jpg

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Oh, those are all pretty old.

[The Xenos]

Every repost is repost repost.

Old news is old.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9383/slowpokesmwx3.jpg

sage

Whoops. Wrong Land bashing messageboard.

[the heckler]

more from Greg Land

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2788/1153634031712cy7gz1.jpg

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7652/bbsojoo6.jpg


http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/720/hmmmmm4ktwx6.gif

http://www.lubbockonline.net/blogs/slemmons/images/Land-Spidey.jpg

i can understand you guys ripping on him for these things here^ ....but seriously some of you guys earlier in this thread are reaching

[kalorama]

No, he draws by tracing images he did not pay for.

He doesn't have to pay for them. What he's doing falls well within the boundaries of "fair use."

[the goddamn batman]

And Ariel Olivetti seems to have taken up swiping to produce backgrounds.


That's not exactly swiping.

Also, don't you guys ever get tired of this? Yeah, Gre g Land traces. So what? Are you doing anything about it? Is Marvel? Is Greg?

Also, the toy thing, you'd be amazed how many people do that.

[C Wallace]

He doesn't have to pay for them. What he's doing falls well within the boundaries of "fair use."

Using someone else art to create a derivative work does not in any way shape or form fall under "fair use".

To suggest otherwise would be erroneous.

[kalorama]

Using someone else art to create a derivative work does not in any way shape or form fall under "fair use."

But taking photographs and making altered/adapted drawings of isolated parts of them them (as opposed to publishing unaltered, or altered but still recognizable photos) and including them as part of a larger work of illustration (which is what Land is doing) does.

[C Wallace]

But taking photographs and making altered/adapted drawings of isolated parts of them them (as opposed to publishing unaltered, or altered but still recognizable photos) and including them as part of a larger work of illustration (which is what Land is doing) does.

You are mistaken, and I am uncertain that you understand what "fair use" actually pertains to. I said it has nothing to do with it whatsoever, because it LITERALLY does not. The doctrine of Fair Use relates to the use of copyrighted material for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research.

Provided he is taking his own photgraphs it would be legal. However if that were the case, that still has nothing to do with "fair use". Even if it did, "fair use" is not even an issue because he would be the original creator of the work his finished illustrations are derived from.

With that said, he is clearly appropriating images that he is not the creator of and using them to create a derivative work. This is the main reason he keeps on getting caught swiping. If you can look at Land's art and recognize where he traced it from....well, doesn't that say it all right there?

For the record, there is no "magical" percentage of change to the original work he could make that makes it OK. The concept of taking an existing photo or illustration and changing it to make it your own, is a Copyright myth. In part or parcel it is still an infringment.

This is not covered under the "fair use" clause of copyright law. It is considered an out and out infringment and could be subject to civil suit. However, instances like this rarely see actual legal action, as it's just not worth the effort or time involved to pursue.

Unfortunately, a lot of people operate under their own assumption of what they believe copyright entails. Or even worse, they take for fact misinformation that has been relayed to them over the years.

For FACTS on copyright visit www.copyright.gov.

Also, a great read on some familair copyright myths can be found here:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

[The Xenos]

Yeah. Fair use isn't a blanket term to get away with copying anything you want. There are rules and you should know them before complaining.

Here's a very interesitng video about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo
sourced from
http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/documentary-film-program/film/a-fair-y-use-tale

[brunofrankelli]

Legally I don't think Greg Land crossed any lines yet. Intellectual property law is not my expertise though so I don't know. My beef with him has always been morally. And no, I can't send him to jail because his artwork sucks.

Sadly, morality doesn't have much value in this day and age.

[Neptunicus]

Picking on Land some more are Cableverine, Bishop, and Colonel Whateverhisnameis on this cover all the same basic tracing and figure (excepting the heads and outfits)? Looks like it to me...

http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/827/827548/marvel-in-january-2008-preview-20071015032039134.jpg

[Rattlehead]

Yikes, he resorted to tracing Darth Maul's lightsaber. That's a new low even for Land.

[kalorama]

You are mistaken, and I am uncertain that you understand what "fair use" actually pertains to.

I am quite certain I do. As much as I hate to ruin a good arrogant holier-than-thou rant, you're still wrong.

I said it has nothing to do with it whatsoever, because it LITERALLY does not. The doctrine of Fair Use relates to the use of copyrighted material for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research.

Yes, fair use does cover "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research" but that is by no means all covers. In fact, any reading of the specifics of fair use law makes it clear that there's plenty of gray area determining what is and isn't fair use.

To wit:

In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and "transformative" purpose such as to comment upon, criticize or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner. Another way of putting this is that fair use is a defense against infringement. If your use qualifies under the definition above, and as defined more specifically later in this chapter, then your use would not be considered an illegal infringement.

So what is a "transformative" use? If this definition seems ambiguous or vague, be aware that millions of dollars in legal fees have been spent attempting to define what qualifies as a fair use. There are no hard-and-fast rules, only general rules and varying court decisions. That's because the judges and lawmakers who created the fair use exception did not want to limit the definition of fair use. They wanted it--like free speech--to have an expansive meaning that could be open to interpretation.

Provided he is taking his own photgraphs it would be legal. However if that were the case, that still has nothing to do with "fair use". Even if it did, "fair use" is not even an issue because he would be the original creator of the work his finished illustrations are derived from.

Which is utterly besides the point. The issue at hand (as so many here seem dedicated to complaining about) is his use of other people's copyrighted images (photos and drawings) in his work. And appropriating copyrighted works for use in other work is, in fact, at the heart of fair use.


With that said, he is clearly appropriating images that he is not the creator of and using them to create a derivative work. This is the main reason he keeps on getting caught swiping. If you can look at Land's art and recognize where he traced it from....well, doesn't that say it all right there?

And what "all" does it say, pray tell?

For the record, there is no "magical" percentage of change to the original work he could make that makes it OK. The concept of taking an existing photo or illustration and changing it to make it your own, is a Copyright myth. In part or parcel it is still an infringment.

And, again, you miss the point. No one said anything about "magical" anything. The issues with fair use are the amount and scope of the copyrighted work that's been appropriated and to what degree the copyrighted work in question is readily visible and recognizable after it's been appropriated.

The four factors judges consider are:

1. the purpose and character of your use
2. the nature of the copyrighted work
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion taken, and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market.

In some cases, the amount of material copied is so small (or "de minimis") that the court permits it without even conducting a fair use analysis. For example, in the motion picture Seven, several copyrighted photographs appeared in the film, prompting the copyright owner of the photographs to sue the producer of the movie. The court held that the photos "appear fleetingly and are obscured, severely out of focus, and virtually unidentifiable." The court excused the use of the photographs as "de minimis" and a fair use analysis was not required. ( Sandoval v. New Line Cinema Corp., 147 F.3d 215 (2d Cir. 1998).)

As with fair use, there is no bright line test for determining a de minimis use. For example, in another case, a court determined that the use of a copyrighted poster for a total of 27 seconds in the background of the TV show, "Roc" was not de minimis. What distinguished the use of the poster from the use of the photographs in the Seven case? The court stated that the poster was clearly visible and recognizable with sufficient observable detail for the "average lay observer " to view the artist's imagery and colorful style. ( Ringgold v. Black Entertainment Television, Inc. 126 F.3d 70 (2d Cir. 1997).)

Given these parameters, how much of an original photo Land uses in his work and how readily recognzable it is (which speaks to the degree it which it's been altered in the appropriation) to the "average lay" reader (a phrase most likely not to be applied to people who obsessively scour every page of Land's work and then search the Internet for hours on end for reference photos with which to spring an online "gotcha") does play a part in determining whether Land's work is covered.

You will also note that neither of the two cases cited above have jack all to do with "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research," the areas to which you narrowly and rather selectively attempted to claim fair use was limited. In fact, both of these case spring squarely and unambiguously from the entertainment industry, the very same industry in which comic books companies ply their trade.

And yes, I do realize that the first case makes the specific point of saying that the usage of the poster in Seven wasn't covered by fair use law. But that determination was not based on any supposed limitation of fair use to instances involving only "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research." Rather it was based on a determination that not enough of the copyrighted work was used/displayed as to trigger a fair use consideration. If your subjectively narrow definition of the areas to which fair use applies held any water, a fair use assessment would have no relevance based on the obvious fact that the movie Seven serves no purpose related to "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research." The obvious implication is that if more of the copyrighted work were displayed, then there would have been a fair use analysis conducted, which is inherent proof that entertainment and art uses of copyrighted material can be considered, on their merits, under fair use law.

This is not covered under the "fair use" clause of copyright law. It is considered an out and out infringment and could be subject to civil suit.

Just because something "could be subject to civil suit" doesn't make it a de facto violation of the law. Civil suits are brought and either thrown out or lost all the time. Given the expressly nonspecific nature of what's covered by fair use, there's no end to the list of things that "could be subject to civil suit." Whether any of them are an actual violation of the fair use statute is the issue to be determined after the suit is brought, either through a dismissal of the case as having no merit or a ruling for the defendant.


However, instances like this rarely see actual legal action, as it's just not worth the effort or time involved to pursue.

Yes, because people who think they've legitimately been cheated, ripped off, or stolen from in obvious violation of the law frequently choose ignoring it as their course of action.

Unfortunately, a lot of people operate under their own assumption of what they believe copyright entails.

Fortunately I am not one of them.

To sum up ... while it may be true that Land's work might not automatically be covered by fair use, there is absolutely nothing in the published law that expressly excludes the issues surrounding Land's work form being considered under fair use law.

[Jerkmeister]

OH MY GOD. Please, whiny, stupid fanboys, GROW UP. And coming from me that should be an insult of gigantic proportions.
ACT YOUR FUCKIN AGE.

[mattx110]

generally, anything non-educational and for profit would not be covered under "fair-use". and i wouldn't call land's work a parody. it's that simple. no need to get angry.

[Neptunicus]

Picking on Land some more are Cableverine, Bishop, and Colonel Whateverhisnameis on this cover all the same basic tracing and figure (excepting the heads and outfits)? Looks like it to me...


Oh and if you look at the Silver Surfer on his cover compare it to the cover of Ultimate Fanstic Four #43....
http://www.scifigenre.com/subs/issueImages/APR07_Previews/APR072277.jpg

[indigocity]

i hate this guy:mad:

greg pack sucks !

[Neptunicus]

i hate this guy:mad:

greg pack sucks !

It's like some sort of Jedi Mind Trick...now let's talk about Greg Pak some more...wait a second...

[The Xenos]

Hurm.. I'm gonna double check that Surfer image. That's lame. Pasqual Ferry is an awesome artist. His work on Ult FF and Adam Strange was mind bending.

Upon inspection... nope. Different angle. It's just an iconic pose for the Surfer.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1453/marvelinjanuary2008prevak3.jpg

OH MY GOD. Please, whiny, stupid fanboys, GROW UP. And coming from me that should be an insult of gigantic proportions.
ACT YOUR FUCKIN AGE.

i hate this guy:mad:

greg pack sucks !


FYI, "Shut up your whiny stupid fanboys" and "I hate this guy" are not proper forms of communication. You know, especially when you don't even get the guy's name right. (It's good to make sure you're hating the right person.) If you want to come back when you can act more mature and have conversations with meaningful points and arguments, citing reasons and facts, then please do.

Oh and you telling us to act our age like that isn't an insult of any proportion. It's a joke.

[FaithfulMonkeyButler]

WTF is up with Moon Knight's arms? It's like Land's traced the two sides from different sources instead of, I don't know, flipping the one side to make him symmetrical.

[mattx110]

Hurm.. I'm gonna double check that Surfer image. That's lame. Pasqual Ferry is an awesome artist. His work on Ult FF and Adam Strange was mind bending.

Upon inspection... nope. Different angle. It's just an iconic pose for the Surfer.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1453/marvelinjanuary2008prevak3.jpg






FYI, "Shut up your whiny stupid fanboys" and "I hate this guy" are not proper forms of communication. You know, especially when you don't even get the guy's name right. (It's good to make sure you're hating the right person.) If you want to come back when you can act more mature and have conversations with meaningful points and arguments, citing reasons and facts, then please do.

Oh and you telling us to act our age like that isn't an insult of any proportion. It's a joke.
i'm kinda sure indigocity was joking. maybe not, but it seems like s/he was.

[Percival]

WTF is up with Moon Knight's arms? It's like Land's traced the two sides from different sources instead of, I don't know, flipping the one side to make him symmetrical.

He's obviously lefthanded, therefore having larger muscles on his left arm.

[Jerkmeister]

He's obviously lefthanded, therefore having larger muscles on his left arm.

I hope you're joking cause that's the stupidest thing I've ever read.

[Draconomicon]

I hope you're joking cause that's the stupidest thing I've ever read.
...how old are you again?

[Typo Lad]

I hope you're joking cause that's the stupidest thing I've ever read.
Take some bio lessons. It happens.

[FaithfulMonkeyButler]

It wouldn't change the proportions of said arm. (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/previews/marvel/0108/ULTUHB2008_col.jpg)

[brunofrankelli]

OH MY GOD. Please, whiny, stupid fanboys, GROW UP. And coming from me that should be an insult of gigantic proportions.
ACT YOUR FUCKIN AGE.

We are acting our age. Mental age that is. I'm eight in the head.

[Adam C]

With all this debate over the legal/ethical implications of Land's tracing I'm surprised no one has commented on what this says about his compositional skills as an artist (or lack thereof).

[cg_maniac]

This has got to be Peter North!

http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/images/pornface001_1.jpg

[Jack Zodiac]

Is he splashing super-juice all over Power Princess?

[Jerkmeister]

I think using porn shots for his comic makes it look cool, but that's just me. And I can't get enough of porn.

[The Xenos]

He's obviously lefthanded, therefore having larger muscles on his left arm.

Naw. It shouldn't matter. We all know Land does his tra.. er.. drawing single handedly. We try not to think how he keeps his other hand occupied.

[StrikeForce Albert]

WTF is up with Moon Knight's arms? It's like Land's traced the two sides from different sources instead of, I don't know, flipping the one side to make him symmetrical.

Moon Knight must jerk off alot

[Charles RB]

Is he splashing super-juice all over Power Princess?

Almost certainly.

[Baytor]

Have you seen the Greg Land cover for Exiles? Sabretooth is a trace of WWE wrestler Triple H. It's horrible.:p

[BizarroBeachHead]

Have you seen the Greg Land cover for Exiles? Sabretooth is a trace of WWE wrestler Triple H. It's horrible.:p

Why didn't he just trace Tyler Mane, the wrestler who played 'tooth in the movie?

[Your Imaginary Pal]

Does that woman in purple (the biggest image on the page) look like she's having an orgazm on the page ? Its like everyones in a serious mood to go kick ass and she was in that hair commercial where the woman washes her hair with that orgazmic shampoo.

and look at wanda staring her down, you can see the envy in her eyes.

[FaithfulMonkeyButler]

and look at wanda staring her down, you can see the envy in her eyes."I'll have what she's having."

[The Xenos]

Traced or not, let's look at another issue. Does Greg Land purposefully over sexualize his characters? It seems it's getting to really stand out with these sexual poses and expressions. I don't think it's just our dirty minds reading into this, I think the artwork itself is sexualized. Again, whether he traces from porn or not as a separate issue.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

And Newsarama adds yet more evidence to the pile:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=4704715&postcount=153

http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=4707175&postcount=191

[The Xenos]

And Newsarama adds yet more evidence to the pile:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=4704715&postcount=153

http://forum.newsarama.com/showpost.php?p=4707175&postcount=191

Those are pretty good. Though the thread started off kinda crap. It just had people saying "Oh, this looks like so and so actress." That's cheap. If you're going to accuse someone of stealing from a photo, you better have evidence to back it up. Those ones you pointed out do it right.

[Kid Kyoto]

Those are pretty good. Though the thread started off kinda crap. It just had people saying "Oh, this looks like so and so actress." That's cheap. If you're going to accuse someone of stealing from a photo, you better have evidence to back it up. Those ones you pointed out do it right.

That's BS, Land is a known tracer and starting the hunt for evidence by saying this picture looks like XXX helps other Land-hunters find the original image.

[cg_maniac]

close, from Sojourn, so he probably wasn't in full trace mode yet.

http://www.jimthorpe-art.com/eastwood.jpg

I hate to admit it, but aside from the porn-face, and the face and pose not matching up to the action, he can still draw very well - even if he does trace.

[cg_maniac]

Here is a site selling Land's original artwork.

http://www.fanfare-se.com/ArtistGalleryTitles.asp?ArtistId=120

Kinda interesting that his earlier work is so different, and many pages are selling for much less than his current "traced" work.

You can get a page of his Action comics for around $60.00 (decent looking page), while his ultimate pages -which appear "lifeless" to me - go for $200.00 and up.

There's big bucks in that tracing biz....hmmm, where's my lightbox?

time to grab the next issue of Playboy and start cranking out some superbabe pinups

[cg_maniac]

I traced a photo (that I once used for reference on a comic I worked on)

- just to see if it came out "Greg Land-ish". I need to color it to get the full effect though.

http://www.jimthorpe-art.com/sketch.028.jpg

[zuludelta]

I traced a photo (that I once used for reference on a comic I worked on)

- just to see if it came out "Greg Land-ish". I need to color it to get the full effect though.

http://www.jimthorpe-art.com/sketch.028.jpg

Good job, but to really get that Greg Land feel you need context... make it look like his facial expression is wholly inappropriate to the scene or portion of the bigger story it's set in :D. I'm not so much bothered by the idea that he traces (as I've said over and over again in numerous threads, tracing/lightboxing is common practice and a handy technique to have available at one's disposal), but it's the fact that he uses such poor judgment when selecting his references, with no regard to storytelling that leads to flat comic book panels and uninspired direction that really bothers the heck out of me.

[FaithfulMonkeyButler]

I traced a photo (that I once used for reference on a comic I worked on)

- just to see if it came out "Greg Land-ish". I need to color it to get the full effect though.

http://www.jimthorpe-art.com/sketch.028.jpgI think it needs to be a picture of your Oh-face to really get his process down.

[Athena Bast]

From Sojourn - please click attachment

It's clearly Al Pacino and Sean Connery.

Not to mention the lead male from Sojourn looks a damn lot like Kurt Russell a la Snake Plissken.

[cg_maniac]

I think it needs to be a picture of your Oh-face to really get his process down.

Now that's funny! and true.

Also true that it has to be out of context, so maybe this could be a picture of a character trying on a new shirt.

Can't wait for Ultimate Power to come out to see what Mr. Land has in store for us - yeah, I'll buy it, I still like the way the art comes out even though it can take you out of the story.

Here it is colored and with a blurb that is kind of out of context with the facial expression:

http://www.jimthorpe-art.com/sketch.029.jpg

[comicartfan]

From Sojourn - please click attachment

It's clearly Al Pacino and Sean Connery.

Not to mention the lead male from Sojourn looks a damn lot like Kurt Russell a la Snake Plissken.



http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g243/zombiejohnfl/compare.jpg

[cg_maniac]

At least that Al Pacino reference wasn't traced, you can see the differences. Greg Land must have been just looking at reference during Sojourn, not full-blown tracing like he is now (like this Mr. Fantastic image, that is total tracing).

http://images.comicbookresources.com/litg/reedtad2kl.gif

[DoctorDoom]

"I'll have what she's having."
Maybe she's got the 'urge for Herbal'?

(that was the name of that orgasmic shampoo - Herbal Essences)

[cg_maniac]

I was just looking at Ryan Sook's website, and his style changed big time around 2004 - just wondering if he made a deal with the same devil that Adam Hughes did...Sook's style suddenly become very similar to Hughes

...also, how do I make that same deal!!!

I sent Sook an email asking what influenced his style change from one year to the next, wonder if he will write back? I was being serious, I want to know - maybe there is a book these guys (similar styles - Hughes, Sook, Land, Dodson, Cho) are all looking at or something - you never know.




:p

[cg_maniac]

The great Ryan Sook wrote back, and quickly too! I hope he doesn't mind me sharing the answer with you all. He didn't reveal any dark secrets, so I think it'll be okay, plus it is a very interesting answer.

"thanks for asking jim,
what really happened is that about halfway
through the arkham asylum mini series the writer dan
slott, asked me to draw that issue in a fairy tale
cartoonier style. which i've always loved but hadn't
much chance to do professionally. once i started that
issue everything really clicked and i feel like i
started understanding how to draw right about there.
after that there was a lot of growth. i tended prior
to that to steer away from cartooning because i didn't
understand it. but once i did that, it completely
altered my approach to drawing ever since. draw
cartoons! it really helped me!
i like your work on the site by the way. keep it
up! there is some serious potential for greatness
there.
very best-ryan sook

So no deal with the devil. Rats, I thought that's all I had to do, but looks like more hard work ahead to get as good as these guys.

[Distorted Humor]

If he meets deadlines...he doing a lot better then some other artists... :p

[The Xenos]

Yeah. Sook did change a bit. From more of a Mignola style to more of a Hughes style, that Hughes - Dodson - Cho family. Though I'm pretty sure Cho said Hughes was an influence. Forget how long Hughes has been around. These artists don't live in bubbles. They influence each other. Hell, sometimes they're friends or become friends.

[dancj]

I think Hughes has been around for about 20 years. Certainly I first saw his work in around about 1990 give or take a year on Justice League America. He was the only person who ever bettered Kevin Maguire on the title.

[The Xenos]

Ah. Checking my University^2 book, Cho was in college around 95. So that makes sense he followed Hughes.

[Nick W]

The great Ryan Sook wrote back, and quickly too! I hope he doesn't mind me sharing the answer with you all. He didn't reveal any dark secrets, so I think it'll be okay, plus it is a very interesting answer.



So no deal with the devil. Rats, I thought that's all I had to do, but looks like more hard work ahead to get as good as these guys.


C'mon Jim, what no plug for the site? :p Seiously though, Ryan's art has gone through many changes since he started in the industry almost a decade ago. His very early stuff had some Mignola touches which really became more prevalent when he was doing the Buffy books on through BPRD & Spectre. Then as he said, he really started to change it up around Arkham Asylum. During his Hawkman run is where I'd say the current style really hit it's stride. You see the cartoonier Hughes influence, but there's also a good amount of Nowlan in there too. I can guarantee though that you will see even more changes as his already very solid artistic skills continue to grow. My favorite thing about running his website the last 5 or so years has been closely watching his progression (& the occasional free art ain't to shabby either). And while I love his cover work, hopefully we'll get to see some more sequential stuff soon.

N

[the4thpip]

Marvel is dumb.

They could save lots of money by getting some high school art student with a computer to replace Greg, and get the same result. And pay him a third the wage.

They could call him Greq Iand and none of Greg's fans would even notice! :evilsmile

[the4thpip]

At least that Al Pacino reference wasn't traced, you can see the differences. Greg Land must have been just looking at reference during Sojourn, not full-blown tracing like he is now (like this Mr. Fantastic image, that is total tracing).

http://images.comicbookresources.com/litg/reedtad2kl.gif

Always fun to see this one. I found the images and resized them to match, my friend Andrew in Enland turned it into an animated gif and LITG picked it up from the Joe Q forum where we posted it. Same with the Brad Pitt Magneto.

[The Xenos]

Ha. I've seen that image posted so many times and so many places, I forgot where it came from.

[dancj]

God you're right that Magneto is Brad Pitt. That looks really crap - especially because Magneto doesnt look anything like Brad Pitt.

[the4thpip]

God you're right that Magneto is Brad Pitt. That looks really crap - especially because Magneto doesnt look anything like Brad Pitt.

I actually meant this Brad Pitt, where he just basically added some filters and drew (or pasted?) on some ornaments.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8450/hmmmmm4kt.gif

[the4thpip]

And when he draws a dragon, he usually just steals the work that computer artists employed by Industrial Lights & Magic did for the various Jurassic Park movies.

http://www.foreigner1999.com/sojourn.jpg

http://www.fantasfilm.com/image/x-jurassic-park-3.jpg

[dancj]

I actually meant this Brad Pitt, where he just basically added some filters and drew (or pasted?) on some ornaments.

Ah yes - I'd forgotten about that one.