Final Crisis Teaser Trailer

[Nintendite]

Heroes die. But Legends live forever. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/FinalTeaser.html)

[Hawkman]

And my initial reaction was, "Oh, crap, Hawkman's pictured..." Seriously, I have a very bad feeling about his presence there, especially in conjunction with the caption. My hope is it's just because these are the most iconic of DC's heroes. The fact that Aquaman is the only odd-man out is probably due to his current absence in the DCU. Hopefully, anyway...

I suppose if nothing else, at least this might indicate that he'll have a fairly prominent role in the thing.

[Buried Alien]

They're REALLY calling it "FINAL CRISIS," huh?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Sean Walsh]

They're REALLY calling it "FINAL CRISIS," huh?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

*anxiously awaiting FINAL CRISIS 2*

:p

[Nintendite]

*anxiously awaiting FINAL CRISIS 2*

:p

FINAL CRISIS 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO!

[Logansmiddleclaw]

I can't wait for Final Infinite Zero Hour Hyperforce Crisis 3.

I mean, what's left to be resolved at this point? What's left to retcon and "fix?"

[Schornforce]

*anxiously awaiting FINAL CRISIS 2*

:p

FINAL CRISIS 2: NOW WITH 20% MORE CRISIS!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: THIS TIME IT'S FINAL-ER!!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: FO' REALZ THIS TIME!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: CRISIS OF THE INFINITE CRISES!

[Buried Alien]

FINAL CRISIS 2: NOW WITH 20% MORE CRISIS!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: THIS TIME IT'S FINAL-ER!!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: FO' REALZ THIS TIME!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: CRISIS OF THE INFINITE CRISES!

and lest we forget, FINAL CRISIS 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO!


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Cayman]

Pretty image, especially in comparison with the two ghastly Countdown teaser images we've had so far.

[Jack Zodiac]

This is Busiek's project, right? That's the only thing keeping me even remotely interested, because Busiek has his hits and his misses, but the one thing I've never seen him do is write pure crap mega events.

[Buried Alien]

This is Busiek's project, right? That's the only thing keeping me even remotely interested, because Busiek has his hits and his misses, but the one thing I've never seen him do is write pure crap mega events.

It's kind of too bad that FINAL CRISIS couldn't just be JLA/AVENGERS 2. Imagine that: a Crisis so big that the DC Multiverse isn't enough...they have to get the Marvel Universe's help too.

Of course, the Post-CIVIL WAR Marvel Universe isn't too conducive to crossovers with the DCU. Not many Marvel superheroes are looking or acting like their classic, iconic selves these days.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[titanfan]

FINAL CRISIS

It beats INFINITE FINAL CRISIS.

[Buried Alien]

It beats INFINITE FINAL CRISIS.

That's going to be the next one.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Sean Walsh]

Until I see an event that takes all the names of every other major DCU crossover event and molds them together into one title, I won't believe this is a final anything.



BTW, that word................SEMPRINI. ;) :p

[Buried Alien]

BTW, that word................SEMPRINI. ;) :p

That sounds like something to order at an Italian restaurant.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Froggy]

FINAL CRISIS 2: NOW WITH 20% MORE CRISIS!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: THIS TIME IT'S FINAL-ER!!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: FO' REALZ THIS TIME!

***

FINAL CRISIS 2: CRISIS OF THE INFINITE CRISES! I thought it was gonna be FINAL CRISIS 2: WE MEAN IT THIS TIME!


It's kind of too bad that FINAL CRISIS couldn't just be JLA/AVENGERS 2. Imagine that: a Crisis so big that the DC Multiverse isn't enough...they have to get the Marvel Universe's help too.

Of course, the Post-CIVIL WAR Marvel Universe isn't too conducive to crossovers with the DCU. Not many Marvel superheroes are looking or acting like their classic, iconic selves these days.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

yeah.....kind of sucks about that :(

[Flash's Lightning]

So is this the first superhero event that's actually taken years to finish? When did all this technically start, 2006?

That's unless you consider it actually starting with the original Crisis or Zero Hour. But really this current Crisis was only recently conceived as of a few years back.

In any case, I'm looking forward to it. I only regret that I read by trade, and so will have things consistently spoiled for me. :)

Oh, and since we're coming up with taglines:

Final Crisis: See it again for the first time

[Vulgar]

I'm liking the picture ,but am I the only one whose first thought was why is Hawkman's belt shooting lightning?

[Buried Alien]

I'm liking the picture ,but am I the only one whose first thought was why is Hawkman's belt shooting lightning?

Because it's ELECTRIC BOOGALOO. :)

Picture this: the Anti-Monitor, Sinestro, Superboy Prime, Parallax-Kyle, and Hank Henshaw are going to be doing this horrific boy band-style dance a la N'Sync.

THAT's going to be FINAL CRISIS 2.

The DCU is doomed...

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Infra-Man]

Well, looks like Hawkman's a goner. Wonder who else they'll kill off for kicks and shock value. Probably someone in the Bat family, is my guess.

Don't know how to feel about this. They've got a year worth of hyping up to do, which means that when Final Crisis comes out, it will either be delayed or its final issues will be jam-packed with rushed fill-in art.

Okay, okay... sorry... too much snark. But hey, it's another company-wide crossover. If I've learned anything from DC's last one, it's not to set one's expectations too high.

[Joe Rice]

At least it's better-rendered than the Countdown things we've seen.

[Buried Alien]

Well, looks like Hawkman's a goner.

I think DC has "killed off" Hawkman before. Not much novelty value in killing him again.

Besides, the Hawk mythos in the DCU has always been grounded in a resurrection motif. If Hawkman is killed off, he probably won't stay dead for long.

Wonder who else they'll kill off for kicks and shock value. Probably someone in the Bat family, is my guess.

I hope DC doesn't go after Dick Grayson again. He's too popular and too fundamental a DCU character to consign to death. Then again, DC just might do it to keep up with Marvel's killing Captain America. It's about all DC can do to match without having to kill off its Big Three icons (with Dick Grayson being a sort of fourth icon, having been the original Robin).

Okay, okay... sorry... too much snark. But hey, it's another company-wide crossover. If I've learned anything from DC's last one, it's not to set one's expectations too high.

I've enjoyed the crossovers, but I do want DC to stop after FINAL CRISIS just because...I'm exhausted. No matter how good it is, people need a break.

I'm looking forward to some nice, relatively quiet years at DC after FINAL CRISIS wraps up.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[DaeJi]

Well, it looks like some more heroes will die; probably newer heroes too, judging by the "Heroes die, Legends live" thing. I also think they got the name wrong, it should say: FINAL CRISIS?

[Scrubz]

I believe Didio is going "big-bang" the DC universe and start over from scratch so his the silver age ambitions can be implemented. Seriously someone needs to take him out of the comics biz. He makes such poor choices like keeping ancient artists on books. No offense to their past works but when I learned that Jurgens would be penciling Booster Gold I lost all interest. And Bryne is still around, Perez too. Come on DC this is the next century. You can honor the past without being the past.

I bet Van Sciver and Jimenez pencil Final Crisis with covers by Jones.

[Infra-Man]

I've enjoyed the crossovers, but I do want DC to stop after FINAL CRISIS just because...I'm exhausted. No matter how good it is, people need a break.

I'm looking forward to some nice, relatively quiet years at DC after FINAL CRISIS wraps up.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I definitely agree with the exhaustion. Final Crisis may wind up being great, but yeah, too many events has left me feeling worn out.

[Buried Alien]

I believe Didio is going "big-bang" the DC universe and start over from scratch so his the silver age ambitions can be implemented. Seriously someone needs to take him out of the comics biz. He makes such poor choices like keeping ancient artists on books. No offense to their past works but when I learned that Jurgens would be penciling Booster Gold I lost all interest. And Bryne is still around, Perez too. Come on DC this is the next century. You can honor the past without being the past.

Byrne, I'll give you because he's pretty burnt out and hasn't been doing work at the level of his best for years, but Jurgens and Perez are still at or near the top of their game. If they're GOOD, who cares if they're old? I'll take a proven star over "flavor of the month" any day.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Joe Rice]

Byrne, I'll give you because he's pretty burnt out and hasn't been doing work at the level of his best for years, but Jurgens and Perez are still at or near the top of their game. If they're GOOD, who cares if they're old? I'll take a proven star over "flavor of the month" any day.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Ah, if only Perez' "top of his game" was, you know, able to differentiate between fore- and back-grounds, had control of detail, could design worth a hoot . . .

[Flash's Lightning]

If the Big Bang theory is the truth, would you all like to see titles restart from #1? Such as Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #1, and maybe throw in a few Silver Agey titles like Adventure Comics #1 starring Supergirl or somesuch?

[BeastieRunner]

Just when I was enjoying DC again . . .

[Joe Rice]

Why do people think Didio has a silver age fetish? Comics in his reign have brought back a few characters and concepts, but it's NOTHING like the silver age.

[Scrubz]

Byrne, I'll give you because he's pretty burnt out and hasn't been doing work at the level of his best for years, but Jurgens and Perez are still at or near the top of their game. If they're GOOD, who cares if they're old? I'll take a proven star over "flavor of the month" any day.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Its not that they are old, I mean Jim Lee has been in the biz for twenty odd years but I still dig his artwork. Sure Lee has spawned a whole generation of imitators or similar artists, but he represented a new look for comics. That is what I like. To me Perez looks great for his era. Crisis On Infinite Earths looks great in 1985, but if it came out now? I'm loyal to DC at the moment, but when Phil Jimenez pencils DC's latest crisis and then compare that to McNiven's work in Civil War, its no wonder Marvel stays on top. Likewise to often DC hires Marvel talent purely on name recognition, Kubert bros. I like their art but they have been a sore spot in their delays.

[Captain Smith]

It Ain't Over Till It's Over Crisis
It Ain't Over Till the Fat Lady Sings Crisis
The Crisis of Wonder Woman's Weight Gain and Singing Lessons Crisis

The Unpleasant Conundrum of Infinity Continuities
The Brouhaha of the 52 Worlds Created by a Cootie

Who's My Daddy Psychodrama of Kal-el

Captain American Comes Back to Life as Wanda - oops, wrong universe.

[Jack Zodiac]

Formerly Known as Crisis on Infinite Earths
I Can't Believe It's Not Zero Hour

Just when you thought it was safe to read DC comics again.

[Lex]

After seeing that image, I can't stop my eyes from rolling into the back of my head.

[Buried Alien]

Just when I was enjoying DC again . . .

Let's wait until we see the actual results before we start crabbing, eh? Besides, it's not as if we didn't know until today that this was coming.

Few ideas are wrong on principle; mostly, it's just a matter of execution.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Paul Dee]

I've enjoyed the crossovers, but I do want DC to stop after FINAL CRISIS just because...I'm exhausted. No matter how good it is, people need a break.

I'm looking forward to some nice, relatively quiet years at DC after FINAL CRISIS wraps up.

Yeah, definitely. I've just started on Countdown but hope that DC get all this crossover/big event stuff out of their systems after Final Crisis. A big event (eg COIE) is only a big event because it is out of the ordinary, it doesn't work if it happens every year.

Looking at that 'teaser' is exciting though - it confirms that there's this Final Crisis event which has been rumoured about and that Countdown is definitely going to amount to something. I don't buy the fact that this was all conceived when Identity Crisis came out though, this seems like something of an afterthought in light of how Infinite Crisis sold loads of copies of everything at that time. I'll be convinced otherwise if Final Crisis ties into Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis in a way which could only have been done near the start but it's not too big an issue really, as long as Final Crisis is a good story. I just hope I don't have to buy a whole load of other comics to really get into it though.

Final Crisis was the name of the last chapter of COIE wasn't it?

side note: JG Jones is ace isn't he?.

This Final Crisis can't be another universe-changing retcon event can it? That would definitely be overkill after Infinite Crisis/multiverse stuff. I'm all for one last crossover but it'd better not revise the DC Encyclopedia again.

[Buried Alien]

Final Crisis was the name of the last chapter of COIE wasn't it?

Yeah, it was. DC has been in the habit of recycling old story titles for ages.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Joe Rice]

Few ideas are wrong on principle; mostly, it's just a matter of execution.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Not to belabor a point, but modern DC's problem tends to be the execution.

[Buried Alien]

Not to belabor a point, but modern DC's problem tends to be the execution.

You know how the old saying goes: if at first, you don't succeed...

I'll tell you what's really wrong on principle, though: complaining about a story that isn't even published yet. Now THAT's wrong on principle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Buried Alien]

This Final Crisis can't be another universe-changing retcon event can it? That would definitely be overkill after Infinite Crisis/multiverse stuff. I'm all for one last crossover but it'd better not revise the DC Encyclopedia again.

I think all it'll do is make a few final adjustments. Admittedly, after INFINITE CRISIS and 52, the new DC Multiverse *still* needs a few adjustments to make it work right. Maybe FINAL CRISIS will make those last few adjustments.

Putting together DC continuity is a bit like assembling IKEA furniture: invariably, some parts don't match up and you have to back to the store to trade for working parts.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Joe Rice]

You know how the old saying goes: if at first, you don't succeed...

I'll tell you what's really wrong on principle, though: complaining about a story that isn't even published yet. Now THAT's wrong on principle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

In theory I agree with you.

But there's also the problem with patterns and consistency. If one editorial mandate or group or creators has put out awful story and art again and again, there comes a point where they don't get much benefit of the doubt. COULD DC's current editorial pull of something great? Yeah, Seven Soldiers existed and they didn't screw it up. But the "nay" column has, well, just about every other major project in the past few years.

[Flash's Lightning]

You know how the old saying goes: if at first, you don't succeed...

I'll tell you what's really wrong on principle, though: complaining about a story that isn't even published yet. Now THAT's wrong on principle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I kind of agree and disagree with you.

I think DC is doing a good job (with what I've read, keeping in mind I'm reading by trade - for all I know, it'll get worse, but here's hoping).

But if someone says they don't like DC's trend right now, I think it's fair to say they won't like Final Crisis, assuming the "feel" is going to stay the same. In any case, I think some have a sour taste in their mouth and won't be pleased no matter what happens.

I mean, we have Kurt Busiek working on it, and still people aren't satisfied. What else can they do, have Alex Ross paint the entire thing? :)

[Joe Rice]

I kind of agree and disagree with you.

I think DC is doing a good job (with what I've read, keeping in mind I'm reading by trade - for all I know, it'll get worse, but here's hoping).

But if someone says they don't like DC's trend right now, I think it's fair to say they won't like Final Crisis, assuming the "feel" is going to stay the same. In any case, I think some have a sour taste in their mouth and won't be pleased no matter what happens.

I mean, we have Kurt Busiek working on it, and still people aren't satisfied. What else can they do, have Alex Ross paint the entire thing? :)

Kurt Busiek? Well, if that's true, it won't be completely awful (barring rampant editorial interference) but it will hardly be original and exciting, at least, that's what the evidence states. But Alex Ross onboard would pretty much destroy any chance of goodness . . .at least this poster looks nice.

[Jack Zodiac]

See, that's the only thing keeping me from completely dreading this next event. Kurt Busiek writes good comics. But then, so does Paul Dini, and I've personally been unimpressed with Countdown, so yeah... if enough of Final Crisis is overbearingly edited, even Kurt Busiek might not be able to save it.

[Flash's Lightning]

Kurt Busiek? Well, if that's true, it won't be completely awful (barring rampant editorial interference) but it will hardly be original and exciting, at least, that's what the evidence states. But Alex Ross onboard would pretty much destroy any chance of goodness . . .at least this poster looks nice.

I could be wrong on this, I thought someone mentioned that above? Don't quote me! I might have misread something. :)

[Scrubz]

Kurt Busiek? Well, if that's true, it won't be completely awful (barring rampant editorial interference) but it will hardly be original and exciting, at least, that's what the evidence states. But Alex Ross onboard would pretty much destroy any chance of goodness . . .at least this poster looks nice.

You don't like Ross's art?

[Buried Alien]

See, that's the only thing keeping me from completely dreading this next event. Kurt Busiek writes good comics. But then, so does Paul Dini, and I've personally been unimpressed with Countdown, so yeah... if enough of Final Crisis is overbearingly edited, even Kurt Busiek might not be able to save it.

Unless DC does something really crazy and publishes FINAL CRISIS as another 52-part weekly series (dear God, no...), that probably won't be a problem. COUNTDOWN is largely being crippled by its weekly format. The original 52 worked, but it's probably unrealistic to believe that that formula can work too many times before collapsing under its own weight. If FINAL CRISIS is the standard six-part monthly series (or is it going to be a twelve-part maxiseries a la the original COIE?), that glacial pacing won't present a problem.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Buried Alien]

You don't like Ross's art?

Yeah, Joe is contrarian that way.

He ought to join our Contrarian Music Opinions Thread over at the Music Forum.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Cayman]

I'd have Ivan Reis draw it.

[Joe Rice]

You don't like Ross's art?

It's hardly contrarian to notice that his storytelling is severely lacking. He has pretty much one mood . . .he's got his style and he does it his way, but it doesn't translate well to most comics.

[Flash's Lightning]

It's hardly contrarian to notice that his storytelling is severely lacking. He has pretty much one mood . . .he's got his style and he does it his way, but it doesn't translate well to most comics.

Oh, man, I have to disagree with you completely there. I think he's all that's right with modern comic art.

[Scrubz]

It's hardly contrarian to notice that his storytelling is severely lacking. He has pretty much one mood . . .he's got his style and he does it his way, but it doesn't translate well to most comics.

I can understand that. But for the stories he has penciled/painted, of which I've only read Kingdom Come, I thought it was pretty freakin' sweet.

[Scrubz]

I'd have Ivan Reis draw it.

My sentiments exactly. Pacheco would be perfect as well.

[Joe Rice]

Oh, man, I have to disagree with you completely there. I think he's all that's right with modern comic art.

Justice showed some improvement in his fluidity and storytelling. He's still quite a bit behind the real modern masters, like Pope, Quitely, Clowes, Williams, Smith . . .hell, dozens of great artists. He's too static at present time, and dour on top of it.

[Joe Rice]

My sentiments exactly. Pacheco would be perfect as well.

There's a fellow with some storytelling skills.

[Cayman]

Justice showed some improvement in his fluidity and storytelling. He's still quite a bit behind the real modern masters, like Pope, Quitely, Clowes, Williams, Smith . . .hell, dozens of great artists. He's too static at present time, and dour on top of it.

In Justice though he was painting off of Braithwaite's pencils.

[Scrubz]

There's a fellow with some storytelling skills.

Who would you want to pencil Final Crisis?

[Joe Rice]

In Justice though he was painting off of Braithwaite's pencils.

Ah, well. That explains a bit.

[Joe Rice]

Who would you want to pencil Final Crisis?

To be honest, if Busiek is writing it, I probably wouldn't care; to wit, if it were an artist I like, I'd find them wasted on a big corporate crossover with small potential for greatness.

[Scrubz]

To be honest, if Busiek is writing it, I probably wouldn't care; to wit, if it were an artist I like, I'd find them wasted on a big corporate crossover with small potential for greatness.

Makes since, but people seem to enjoy large crossovers. And it would be my hope that when they are done they have the best artists.

[Joe Rice]

Makes since, but people seem to enjoy large crossovers. And it would be my hope that when they are done they have the best artists.

If you're asking who I think the best mainstream artist is, I'd go with Quitely with Williams following closely behind. However, neither can manage the schedule such a project would require. Nor could Ha.

Pacheco is a good idea previously tossed out there. Reis isn't my cup of tea, but does his thing VERY well.

[Jack Zodiac]

Who would you want to pencil Final Crisis?

Reis or Ethan van Sciver. They both have the flashy, modern, highly detailed art typical of giant comic book crossover events, but they both have the added bonus of actually being decent, punctual artists to boot. And hell, they've got a year head start, right? At this point, you could probably have Jim Lee draw it and it'd be done in a year and a half.

[Joe Rice]

Van Scriver, to me, is still a third generation knock-off of an artist whose work I find lacking to begin with. Perez > Jimenez > Van Scriver (with a little < Bolland in there, too).

[Cayman]

Instead of a crisis, how about an exciting adventure that sweeps across the DCU and showcases the diversity and appeal of their characters rather than another parade of death and weird continuity blips.

[Joe Rice]

Instead of a crisis, how about an exciting adventure that sweeps across the DCU and showcases the diversity and appeal of their characters rather than another parade of death and weird continuity blips.

Why would you want to make something appealing?

[Scrubz]

Van Scriver, to me, is still a third generation knock-off of an artist whose work I find lacking to begin with. Perez > Jimenez > Van Scriver (with a little < Bolland in there, too).

This is the absolute truth.

[Infra-Man]

Instead of a crisis, how about an exciting adventure that sweeps across the DCU and showcases the diversity and appeal of their characters rather than another parade of death and weird continuity blips.

Who would buy that kind of garbage? Bring on the senseless, wanton, money-grubbing kill-a-thon filled with titilation, darkening of characters, and unnecessary tie-ins. :D

[Scrubz]

Instead of a crisis, how about an exciting adventure that sweeps across the DCU and showcases the diversity and appeal of their characters rather than another parade of death and weird continuity blips.

Isn't that what Countdown is trying to achieve? but with deaths and continuity blips.

[Cayman]

Isn't that what Countdown is trying to achieve? but with deaths and continuity blips.

I'm not sure anyone is certain what Countdown is trying to achieve.

[Infra-Man]

Also, whoever's writing and drawing this thing better get started soon. It sounds kinda kooky, but it'd be great if a major crossover event like this actually came in on time and wasn't a jam book by the end.

[EnDwiGast]

And my initial reaction was, "Oh, crap, Hawkman's pictured..." Seriously, I have a very bad feeling about his presence there, especially in conjunction with the caption. My hope is it's just because these are the most iconic of DC's heroes. The fact that Aquaman is the only odd-man out is probably due to his current absence in the DCU. Hopefully, anyway...

I suppose if nothing else, at least this might indicate that he'll have a fairly prominent role in the thing.

I took it as a positive. I'm really glad to see Hawkman up front and center where i think he belongs. Even new Aquaman's biggest fans have to admit he doesn't merit being listed with the legends right now.

(I had to skip the inane posts that filled most of the rest of page 1) (it continued through the start of page 2)

For those speculating it means doom for hawkman - I'm not sure what makes you feel that way. I'm not saying your wrong. At present, he's the only one without his own title - but I see that more as hope he'll be getting one again, and not a sign he'll be killed.

[Scrubz]

Also, whoever's writing and drawing this thing better get started soon. It sounds kinda kooky, but it'd be great if a major crossover event like this actually came in on time and wasn't a jam book by the end.

I think this is DC's problem to begin with. the last son story arc should have never been published until all six issues were drawn and inked. Other examples Batman, all star batman, superman currently. I'm not Jimenez's biggest fan, but when, good lord, Jerry Ordway fills in for panels during IC, which are painful to look at, I'd rather have a delay.

[EnDwiGast]

I haven't kept up with Batman continuity -- but aside from him, hasn't each one of heroes pictured been thought dead at one point or another?

My guess is that someone (not pictured) is returning who we consider to be dead at the moment. Maybe even someone who should be pictured with the others, but isn't.

[Scrubz]

[QUOTE=EnDwiGast;5138490]I haven't kept up with Batman continuity -- but aside from him, hasn't each one of heroes pictured been thought dead at one point or another?

My guess is that someone (not pictured) is returning who we consider to be dead at the moment. Maybe even someone who should be pictured with the others, but isn't.[/QUOTE

Hopefully the six pictured will break the fourth wall and Grant Morrison will just beat them up or tell them why they aren't relevant anymore. I love that guy.

[Nintendite]

Looking at the poster's tag-line again, about how "Heroes die. Legends live forever." I can't help but think it's a jab at Marvel. Sort of a "Yeah, your kicking our ass's right now, but at least our heroes are still acting somewhat like the legendary characters they are and not fighting each other and asking who everyone can trust!" Or maybe not.


My predictions:

1. I think, instead of the "Big Bang" reboot, I'm guessing it'll either be a "Change tons of things but not the current situation" reboot or a no-reboot, just a big epic story (remember those?).
2. Krona is gonna be the ultimate villain behind this. Without any chance of a JLA/Avengers 2 happening this decade, Busiek will resolve the "Cosmic Egg" plot point from JLA/Avengers and Syndicate Rules here and have it "hatch" (perhaps at the behest of the Anti-Monitor). Now, this wouldn't happen in the first issue, or even the second or third (I'm hoping that if this is supposed to be a "final crisis" that it's 12 parts!), but will happen near the middle of the series. This will lead to Krona, angered that the egg had hatched before he could learn the secret behind universal creation, going on a multiversal killing spree. And of course, as he destroys more and more of the 52, the Anti-Monitor would become more and more powerful. Eventually..... well, if Im even close to being correct this will at the very least be the ultimate in popcorn comic books.

[Cayman]

Looking at the poster's tag-line again, about how "Heroes die. Legends live forever." I can't help but think it's a jab at Marvel. Sort of a "Yeah, your kicking our ass's right now, but at least our heroes are still acting somewhat like the legendary characters they are and not fighting each other and asking who everyone can trust!" Or maybe not.


Nah, they got that out of their system in the prelude to Infinite Crisis with horrible books like Bob Harras's and Johns and Heinberg's JLA arcs.

[Tumbido]

Looking at the poster's tag-line again, about how "Heroes die. Legends live forever." I can't help but think it's a jab at Marvel. Sort of a "Yeah, your kicking our ass's right now, but at least our heroes are still acting somewhat like the legendary characters they are and not fighting each other and asking who everyone can trust!" Or maybe not.


My predictions:

1. I think, instead of the "Big Bang" reboot, I'm guessing it'll either be a "Change tons of things but not the current situation" reboot or a no-reboot, just a big epic story (remember those?).
2. Krona is gonna be the ultimate villain behind this. Without any chance of a JLA/Avengers 2 happening this decade, Busiek will resolve the "Cosmic Egg" plot point from JLA/Avengers and Syndicate Rules here and have it "hatch" (perhaps at the behest of the Anti-Monitor). Now, this wouldn't happen in the first issue, or even the second or third (I'm hoping that if this is supposed to be a "final crisis" that it's 12 parts!), but will happen near the middle of the series. This will lead to Krona, angered that the egg had hatched before he could learn the secret behind universal creation, going on a multiversal killing spree. And of course, as he destroys more and more of the 52, the Anti-Monitor would become more and more powerful. Eventually..... well, if Im even close to being correct this will at the very least be the ultimate in popcorn comic books.

I want a 12-issues maxiseries format, too. Why hasn't DC used Krona after the Marvel/DC crossover? And what about part 2 of said crossover? Did both parts say it was never gonna happen again?

[Denny Colt]

I believe Didio is going "big-bang" the DC universe and start over from scratch so his the silver age ambitions can be implemented. Seriously someone needs to take him out of the comics biz. He makes such poor choices like keeping ancient artists on books. No offense to their past works but when I learned that Jurgens would be penciling Booster Gold I lost all interest. And Bryne is still around, Perez too. Come on DC this is the next century. You can honor the past without being the past.

I bet Van Sciver and Jimenez pencil Final Crisis with covers by Jones.

Yeah, Byrne, Jurgens & Perez -- they're all so terrible. Why hasn't someone just put them on an iceberg and let them drift away and die? I hope that no one thinks that way about me when I'm, say, say 50.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I can't wait for Final Infinite Zero Hour Hyperforce Crisis 3.

Go go Power Rangers!

Ooops... *Activates stealth camouflage*

[EnDwiGast]

[QUOTE=EnDwiGast;5138490]I haven't kept up with Batman continuity -- but aside from him, hasn't each one of heroes pictured been thought dead at one point or another?

My guess is that someone (not pictured) is returning who we consider to be dead at the moment. Maybe even someone who should be pictured with the others, but isn't.[/QUOTE

Hopefully the six pictured will break the fourth wall and Grant Morrison will just beat them up or tell them why they aren't relevant anymore. I love that guy.


That would be a great sequel to Grant's Animal Man story.

How about a Ted Kord (or Justice League) vs DC management one-shot.

[Satyrquaze]

Heroes die. But Legends live forever. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/FinalTeaser.html)

Is it me, or does Wonder Woman look like a smug b*tch on the poster?

[Scrubz]

[QUOTE=Scrubz;5138524]


That would be a great sequel to Grant's Animal Man story.

How about a Ted Kord (or Justice League) vs DC management one-shot.

Ted Kord vs. Dan Didio, brilliant.

[Captain Jim]

I think DC has "killed off" Hawkman before. Not much novelty value in killing him again.

Besides, the Hawk mythos in the DCU has always been grounded in a resurrection motif. If Hawkman is killed off, he probably won't stay dead for long.

My thought exactly.

I've enjoyed the crossovers, but I do want DC to stop after FINAL CRISIS just because...I'm exhausted. No matter how good it is, people need a break.

I'm looking forward to some nice, relatively quiet years at DC after FINAL CRISIS wraps up.

You and me both. Y'know, I remember a few years back, whenever the bat-books did a big mega-crossover, they'd always mandate a year or so minimum with no crossovers before doing another one. I kind of like that philosophy. I'm like you; I've been liking these but, my gosh, DC doesn't know when to quit!

[Phoney Bone]

If an artist like Alex Ross, Gene Ha or J.H. Williams is attached to the project, I hope they are played to their strengths and used as cover artists. They excel at that aspect. However, their static "lookit how real I kin draw them thar sooper-heroes" style is weak for telling a story. Hopefully a solid story-teller like Perez or Jurgens will have the inside art chores.

[Babylon23]

I'm not sure why people think Hawkman will die. The poster says "Heroes die. Legends live forever". Hawkman seems to be standing in the 'legends" group here. I'd say he'll not only come through, but he'll do it in style, setting himself up for his new ongoing series that will spin out of Final Countdown.

As for the Crisis itself, I'm interested. I'll most likely buy it when it comes out. I'm hoping this will be it for a while. It would be nice if Marvel would get out of "constant event" mode as well. Both companies seem to be overdoing it.

The poster suggests that Final Crisis will feature the big 3 pretty heavily. Infinite Crisis saw them in turmoil, 52 was the year without them, and Final Crisis will show them together again.

Obviously, the multiverse will most likely play a big part, CoIE-style. We'll probably see the major heroes from many of the different earths battling alongside one another.

I'm also hoping this will settle down the multiverse and lead to books set on different earths. I'd especially love to see an Earth-4 book featurig the Charlton characters. Spin these books out of Final Crisis, but then keep the different Earths seperate for a while.

[Ian J.N.]

You and me both. Y'know, I remember a few years back, whenever the bat-books did a big mega-crossover, they'd always mandate a year or so minimum with no crossovers before doing another one. I kind of like that philosophy. I'm like you; I've been liking these but, my gosh, DC doesn't know when to quit!
It doesn't help that, on the surface, this mega-crossover is the same as the last one, i.e. various storylines building up to some Crisis on Infinite Earths redux, the premise of which we know nothing about. I'm sure (I hope) Final Crisis is vastly different from Infinite Crisis, both in concept and execution, but if that's the case, DC marketing really needs to hammer home those differences. As it is, I'm getting that "been there, done that, go to hell" feeling.

[Ian J.N.]

I'm not sure why people think Hawkman will die. The poster says "Heroes die. Legends live forever". Hawkman seems to be standing in the 'legends" group here. I'd say he'll not only come through, but he'll do it in style, setting himself up for his new ongoing series that will spin out of Final Countdown.

As for the Crisis itself, I'm interested. I'll most likely buy it when it comes out. I'm hoping this will be it for a while. It would be nice if Marvel would get out of "constant event" mode as well. Both companies seem to be overdoing it.

The poster suggests that Final Crisis will feature the big 3 pretty heavily. Infinite Crisis saw them in turmoil, 52 was the year without them, and Final Crisis will show them together again.

Obviously, the multiverse will most likely play a big part, CoIE-style. We'll probably see the major heroes from many of the different earths battling alongside one another.

I'm also hoping this will settle down the multiverse and lead to books set on different earths. I'd especially love to see an Earth-4 book featurig the Charlton characters. Spin these books out of Final Crisis, but then keep the different Earths seperate for a while.
I admire your moxy, but honestly, I cannot imagine an advertisement more generic. Apparently, the next event will have... SUPERHEROES! Doesn't seem worthy of speculation. The only thing of interest is that askew '8' which suggests that, in haste, the graphic designer screwed up the date and then, in haste, screwed up the correction. I'm going to focus on that Countdown teaser. Much more fun.

[captain winkie]

I think they're going to cull the herd...and I think thats what they've been working towards with all of the connected events. They want to bring the 'big guns' back to the forefront of the DCU, and the easiest way to distinguish them from all the other heroes is to, well, just kill off the 'un-needed' heroes.

Didio has clearly had plans to get rid of some perceived second-string characters (such as Nightwing), and this series of Crisis has been a way to get a feel for who should go and who should stay along with setting up an event in which to kill a bunch of them off.

We've already got rid of a nice group of characters, and there is room for more. Now sure, they've resurrected/revamped some characters (blue beetle, metal men) but obviously large storylines open up story possibilities and you have to take advantage.

Point being: they've got a vision for the DC they want to work with. What characters they want, what clumps of continuity just seem to be clogging up the system, whose costume is too ugly. I expect good things from Busiek, but i expect the end result to be a very simple kind of DCU like they've supposedly been trying to get back to over the past few years.

[Wind-Breaker]

*anxiously awaiting FINAL CRISIS 2*

:p

http://img39.picoodle.com/img/img39/9/7/18/f_final1m_772a0da.jpg

[Babylon23]

I admire your moxy, but honestly, I cannot imagine an advertisement more generic. Apparently, the next event will have... SUPERHEROES! Doesn't seem worthy of speculation. The only thing of interest is that askew '8' which suggests that, in haste, the graphic designer screwed up the date and then, in haste, screwed up the correction. I'm going to focus on that Countdown teaser. Much more fun.

Actually, I agree entirely. There really isn't much to this image at all. When I first saw it my reaction was "yeah, so?"

Most of my ideas are just speculation based on the few hints that have been dropped and the things happening in Countdown.

[Pól Rua]

You know how the old saying goes: if at first, you don't succeed...

I'll tell you what's really wrong on principle, though: complaining about a story that isn't even published yet. Now THAT's wrong on principle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

You know that repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is one of the definitions of madness, right?

Naw, I kid, because I love... now kick that football, Charlie Brown!

[Buried Alien]

DC has gone so CRISIS-crazy during the past three years that's easy to forget that for a long time, the attitude over there had been, "CRISIS? What CRISIS? There wasn't any CRISIS. It didn't happen! Don't even mention the word CRISIS!"

That pretty much was how it was from 1987-1999. So CRISIS-phobic was DC during those years that it even hemmed and hawed over putting together a trade for COIE, finally issuing an expensive hardcover version in 1999 (before following with the more affordable TPB in 2001).

It wasn't even until 1999 that DC began to acknowledge CRISIS, referring to the event as it actually happened (complete with Multiverse) in a JLA SECRET FILES, a LEGENDS OF THE DCU SPECIAL chronicling what was essentially COIE # 6.5, Wally West traveling back to the First Crisis in the pages of his own book to take on the Anti-Monitor singlehandedly, and two brief cameos by Kal-L in THE KINGDOM.

Up until that point, however, DC had been conspicuously CRISIS-phobic, as if the mention of the name itself were shibboleth.

After 1999, there was another holding pattern of about five years, but since 2004, DC seems to have gone nuts with reviving CRISIS. It's almost as if DC is overcompensating for the CRISIS denial of the late 1980s and 1990s. For twenty years, DC buried CRISIS as if it were toxic radiation. Now, DC is rubbing everyone's faces in it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Joe Rice]

If an artist like Alex Ross, Gene Ha or J.H. Williams is attached to the project, I hope they are played to their strengths and used as cover artists. They excel at that aspect. However, their static "lookit how real I kin draw them thar sooper-heroes" style is weak for telling a story. Hopefully a solid story-teller like Perez or Jurgens will have the inside art chores.

Ross? Definitely static. Ha? Yeah, well, sometimes, OK. But J.H.Williams? He's less a "realist" and much more a design god. Look over his bookend Seven Soldiers or his Batman issue(s?). The man can tell ANY story, and far more stylistically interestingly and clearly than ol' "spaghetti-lines" Perez.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

If the Big Bang theory is the truth, would you all like to see titles restart from #1? Such as Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #1, and maybe throw in a few Silver Agey titles like Adventure Comics #1 starring Supergirl or somesuch?

Hell no. Starting Action Comics from #1 again is nothing short of blasphemy.

[Magneto Rocks]

Interesting. Kinda. Almost.

My gut still tells me with the name- and then this teaser- we're headed for a colossal radical revamp and mass killing and rebirth in a misguided attempt to outdo Marvel.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well, as for the poster per se, it's not he big deal. The slogan is catchy, but the art... I'd expect something better.

As for Busiek writing it, yeah, it might be. After all, he's got this secret project he can't talk about.

And as for DC stopping the yearly-mega-event trend, I'm not sure. As long as Marvel makes things like Civil War, World War Hulk and things like that, DC won't stop. Hell, I'm damn sure that Marvel's already got something big planned for next year.

I just hope that Superman's portrayed as he must: absolute, awe-inspiring, mega-powerful leader of all Superheroes.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

BTW, another thing that attracts me to this upcoming event is the following phrase:

DEATH OF THE NEW GODS.

ALL of them.

[KevinTBrown]

Let's wait until we see the actual results before we start crabbing, eh? Besides, it's not as if we didn't know until today that this was coming.

Few ideas are wrong on principle; mostly, it's just a matter of execution.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That line is sig worthy. :)



By the way, not sure if anyone has mentioned it or not (I haven't gone through the entire thread yet), but one thing is very interesting about that picture: With the exception of Batman, evry single one of those characters have died and come back to life.

[CMBMOOL]

Either the Multiverse is destroyed again and merged into a New Earth. :mad:

OR

The New Earth is destoryed and those are the remainding heroes left. :(

[DaeJi]

Either way, DC becomes unreadable for another year :(

[Logansmiddleclaw]

I almost forgot:

Golden Age Superman, Wonderwoman and Batman fight old age in....SOCIAL SECURITY CRISIS! The obvious sequel to that would be....HEALTH CARE CRISIS!

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I believe Didio is going "big-bang" the DC universe and start over from scratch so his the silver age ambitions can be implemented. Seriously someone needs to take him out of the comics biz. He makes such poor choices like keeping ancient artists on books. No offense to their past works but when I learned that Jurgens would be penciling Booster Gold I lost all interest. And Bryne is still around, Perez too. Come on DC this is the next century. You can honor the past without being the past.

I bet Van Sciver and Jimenez pencil Final Crisis with covers by Jones.

I'll take that bet!

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Van Scriver, to me, is still a third generation knock-off of an artist whose work I find lacking to begin with. Perez > Jimenez > Van Scriver (with a little < Bolland in there, too).

Joe, I love ya, but why do you keep saying that? I don't draw anything like Perez or Jimenez. I didn't grow up with their stuff to be influenced by it. Is it because we ostensibly all draw with small lines? Those guys are great, imho, but that's not where I came from. :confused:

[Valen]

I had hoped that when "middle Crisis: was mentioned recently in on of the books (I can't remember which one) it was only a wink to fans that sometime in the future DC would need another crisis to fix problems again. I didn't think it meant the new crisis would be next summer's event thing. Hmmm. I know I will buy it though, so no sense compaining too much.

[Flash's Lightning]

Joe, I love ya, but why do you keep saying that? I don't draw anything like Perez or Jimenez. I didn't grow up with their stuff to be influenced by it. Is it because we ostensibly all draw with small lines? Those guys are great, imho, but that's not where I came from. :confused:

Who do you take inspiration from? :)

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Who do you take inspiration from? :)

Byrne--->McFarlane---->Keown----->Wrightson---->Bolland

[dschneider]

Joe, I love ya, but why do you keep saying that? I don't draw anything like Perez or Jimenez. I didn't grow up with their stuff to be influenced by it. Is it because we ostensibly all draw with small lines? Those guys are great, imho, but that's not where I came from. :confused:
...I've got a couple Vs. System cards I need to figure out how to get you to sign. :D

[Nate Grey]

They're REALLY calling it "FINAL CRISIS," huh?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Till the next final crisis, yeah.

[Nate Grey]

Oh wow, Ethan Van Sciver's in this thread? I love your art.
How do you pronounce your last name? Rhymes with MacGuyver?

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Oh wow, Ethan Van Sciver's in this thread? I love your art.
How do you pronounce your last name? Rhymes with MacGuyver?

Yep. Hey, you're from NC. I just bought a house in Charlotte yesterday. Beautiful place to live!

[Nate Grey]

Yep. Hey, you're from NC. I just bought a house in Charlotte yesterday. Beautiful place to live!

Eh...technically, yeah, its real nice and all (lots of things to get into), but I tried living in Charlotte for six months back in 2002 and couldn't find a job, so I returned to Raleigh and almost immediately found one. So...kinda sore memories of Charlotte for me, but otherwise its a BEAUTIFUL place.

[Kara Zor El]

Byrne--->McFarlane---->Keown----->Wrightson---->Bolland

I see a lot of Bolland in your work. But in a totally good way. He was always my favourite, and now it's you. You'll alway's get knocks but you are one of the best right now by far, in my opinion and my comic buddies agree.

The Cult art by Wrightson is also my faave Batman art of all time. I wish he'd do more. Those ears...

[Jack Zodiac]

I see more McFarlane in his work, except Ethan knows how to draw the human body.

Awwwsnap!

[KevinTBrown]

I believe Didio is going "big-bang" the DC universe and start over from scratch so his the silver age ambitions can be implemented. Seriously someone needs to take him out of the comics biz. He makes such poor choices like keeping ancient artists on books. No offense to their past works but when I learned that Jurgens would be penciling Booster Gold I lost all interest. And Bryne is still around, Perez too. Come on DC this is the next century. You can honor the past without being the past.

I bet Van Sciver and Jimenez pencil Final Crisis with covers by Jones.

I'll take that bet!

Yeah, and who do you think is going to pencil it...???


;)

[zhivago]

When it comes to my thoughts about this "Final Crisis" I've decided to adopt wait and see approach. But I'm happy and positively suprised they have put Hawkman and not Hawkgirl along with Hal Jordan, Batman, WW, Superman and Flash.

[Nate Grey]

Basically I follow anything Ethan Van Sciver (loved how you drew Parallax) and Doug Mahnke. Wonder what Doug's up to these days. Is he at CBR too? :eek:

[Captain Smith]

Taking off on the hysterical Health Care Crisis - funniest thing I've read here in awhile.

The Crisis of Illegal Aliens.

After a new immigration bill is passed - the following are arrested by the SuperSoldier Squad of HomeLand Security/INS and deported.

Kal-el
Kingdom Come Supes from the JSA
Kara
J'onn
The Hawks
PG
Starfire
Krypto

and numerous others from other planets.

Also deported guys and gals from alternate realities - like Jay, Alan, the Marvels - hey, it isn't our USA - so get out of here!

[Flash's Lightning]

Taking off on the hysterical Health Care Crisis - funniest thing I've read here in awhile.

The Crisis of Illegal Aliens.

After a new immigration bill is passed - the following are arrested by the SuperSoldier Squad of HomeLand Security/INS and deported.

Kal-el
Kingdom Come Supes from the JSA
Kara
J'onn
The Hawks
PG
Starfire
Krypto

and numerous others from other planets.

Also deported guys and gals from alternate realities - like Jay, Alan, the Marvels - hey, it isn't our USA - so get out of here!

What, no wet feet/dry feet law?

[Nate Grey]

Taking off on the hysterical Health Care Crisis - funniest thing I've read here in awhile.

The Crisis of Illegal Aliens.

After a new immigration bill is passed - the following are arrested by the SuperSoldier Squad of HomeLand Security/INS and deported.

Kal-el
Kingdom Come Supes from the JSA
Kara
J'onn
The Hawks
PG
Starfire
Krypto

and numerous others from other planets.

Also deported guys and gals from alternate realities - like Jay, Alan, the Marvels - hey, it isn't our USA - so get out of here!

And since they're not sure what Batman is, they throw him in there, too, just in case.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Yeah, and who do you think is going to pencil it...???


;)

We'll all be penciling it. In our hearts. :o

[Nate Grey]

We'll all be penciling it. In our hearts. :o

*cue the Phil Collins song from Disney's Tarzan*

[Jack Zodiac]

Basically I follow anything Ethan Van Sciver (loved how you drew Parallax) and Doug Mahnke. Wonder what Doug's up to these days. Is he at CBR too? :eek:

Doug's drawing the new Stormwatch book. And I don't think I've ever seen him post here, but he might be signed up under a handle instead of his real name.

[Rattlehead]

Doug's drawing the new Stormwatch book. And I don't think I've ever seen him post here, but he might be signed up under a handle instead of his real name.

That new StromWatch book is great if you're into political stuff. IMO, it's a far better execution of the idea than Checkmate.

[Nate Grey]

I wish Doug was drawing a Manitou Raven ongoing. I'd buy all five issues.

[Jack Zodiac]

If you haven't already, check out his and Grant's Seven Soldiers: Frankenstein mini-series. Easily the craziest, most fun mini of the bunch.

[Flash's Lightning]

What IS Seven Soldiers anyway that everyone keeps talking about? Is it traded?

[longshot7]

What IS Seven Soldiers anyway that everyone keeps talking about? Is it traded?

Yes. Buy it.

[Jack Zodiac]

What IS Seven Soldiers anyway that everyone keeps talking about? Is it traded?

It's a maxi-series of seven mini-series and two bookends, Seven Soldiers of Victory #0 and #1. The seven mini-series were Mr. Miracle, Zatanna, Shining Knight, The Guardian, Klarion the Witch Boy, Frankenstein, and Bulleteer. Each of them are a member of the Seven Soldiers of Victory who have to fight back the forces of The Sheeda who've come to conquer Earth, and each of them have to do it without ever meeting the others.

It's collected in four trade paperbacks collecting the series chronologically. Easily the best "event" DC's published in the past decade, and some of the best superhero comics written in longer. It's also a sort of love note to Jack Kirby, which makes it extra-special. Highly recommended.

[Flash's Lightning]

It's a maxi-series of seven mini-series and two bookends, Seven Soldiers of Victory #0 and #1. The seven mini-series were Mr. Miracle, Zatanna, Shining Knight, The Guardian, Klarion the Witch Boy, Frankenstein, and Bulleteer. Each of them are a member of the Seven Soldiers of Victory who have to fight back the forces of The Sheeda who've come to conquer Earth, and each of them have to do it without ever meeting the others.

It's collected in four trade paperbacks collecting the series chronologically. Easily the best "event" DC's published in the past decade, and some of the best superhero comics written in longer. It's also a sort of love note to Jack Kirby, which makes it extra-special. Highly recommended.

I'll buy it just for Mr. Miracle and Zatanna. I don't know the others.

I LOVE Mr. Miracle.

[Jack Zodiac]

Well, you should probably know, it's Shilo Norman, not Scott Free. Just in case you're a Scott Free fan more than a Mr. Miracle fan. And almost every other character in the series is brand new, except Klarion. But there's a new Guardian, a new Bulleteer, and a new Shining Knight, and Frankenstein's a completely new character. The only character who comes into the story with any baggage is Zatanna, and that's all wrapped up in the first issue. The book's completely accessible, which is one of the best things about it.

[Flash's Lightning]

Well, you should probably know, it's Shilo Norman, not Scott Free. Just in case you're a Scott Free fan more than a Mr. Miracle fan. And almost every other character in the series is brand new, except Klarion. But there's a new Guardian, a new Bulleteer, and a new Shining Knight, and Frankenstein's a completely new character. The only character who comes into the story with any baggage is Zatanna, and that's all wrapped up in the first issue. The book's completely accessible, which is one of the best things about it.

Yeah, I'm a Scott Free fan. There went my excitement. :(

Zatanna is still Zatara's daughter, right?

[kertap]

I'd love if they did Big Bang the DCU. And restarted all their books at #1.

Then maybe we could get some books that don't require a knowledge of what happened in the last 30 years of comics.

[Jack Zodiac]

Yeah, I'm a Scott Free fan. There went my excitement. :(

Zatanna is still Zatara's daughter, right?

Yeah, Zatanna's still the same. And even though Mr. Miracle is Shilo, he's still pulling the same crazy stuff Scott does. The first issue opens with him trying to escape the event horizon of a miniature black hole, which then leads to his crazy Kirbyesque trials against a wholly different Darkseid to help free the New Gods. Seriously, it's great, and you should at least borrow it from a friend or your local library.

[Flash's Lightning]

Yeah, Zatanna's still the same. And even though Mr. Miracle is Shilo, he's still pulling the same crazy stuff Scott does. The first issue opens with him trying to escape the event horizon of a miniature black hole, which then leads to his crazy Kirbyesque trials against a wholly different Darkseid to help free the New Gods. Seriously, it's great, and you should at least borrow it from a friend or your local library.

I do like good solid stories, but seeing someone else as Mr. Miracle...

Well, I guess I can deal. I'll get the first trade when I get some cash and we'll go from there. :)

[Scrubz]

Basically I follow anything Ethan Van Sciver (loved how you drew Parallax) and Doug Mahnke. Wonder what Doug's up to these days. Is he at CBR too? :eek:

Doug Mahnke's art is pretty spectacular. Recently read the JLE stuff, real good. His next gig is the 8 issue Black Adam miniseries. Check DC.com for details.

[Scrubz]

I'll take that bet!

So is that a yes for pencilling Final Crisis Mr. Van Sciver? Were you never expected to finish the Superman/Batman Enemies Among Us storyline from the beginning? How long does it typically take you to produce a 22 page comic? And even if you aren't influenced by Perez and Jimenez, I think your style is similar to Jimenez. I mean the two countdown teasers would look indistinguishable to an unfamiliar comic eye. Just sayin. I really enjoyed Rebirth.

[Cayman]

I'd love if they did Big Bang the DCU. And restarted all their books at #1.

Then maybe we could get some books that don't require a knowledge of what happened in the last 30 years of comics.

That has both good and bad points. You get a fresh start and remove a lot of convuluted stuff, but you also lose the history of the character interactions.

[dupersuper]

Byrne, I'll give you because he's pretty burnt out and hasn't been doing work at the level of his best for years, but Jurgens and Perez are still at or near the top of their game. If they're GOOD, who cares if they're old? I'll take a proven star over "flavor of the month" any day.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Quoted for truth. I'm much more worried about Didios' STORY-related decisions, anyway...

[Citizen V]

Im sort of sad with this,DC has now turned into Marvel.Putting up events just to get readers to buy more..when will it end?

[Phoney Bone]

Ross? Definitely static. Ha? Yeah, well, sometimes, OK. But J.H.Williams? He's less a "realist" and much more a design god. Look over his bookend Seven Soldiers or his Batman issue(s?). The man can tell ANY story, and far more stylistically interestingly and clearly than ol' "spaghetti-lines" Perez.

JH is aces on cover art. I don't think there are many who are in his league. But when I read an actual book, I want "style" to sit in the back of the bus where it belongs and let an artist with actual story-telling skills (like Perez) take the wheel. When style becomes more important than story-telling, you have 90's Image deja vu, not matter how good that style may be.

[Nate Grey]

Doug Mahnke's art is pretty spectacular. Recently read the JLE stuff, real good. His next gig is the 8 issue Black Adam miniseries. Check DC.com for details.

Oooh I didn't know he was doing the Black Adam mini. Awesome!

[Jack Zodiac]

JH is aces on cover art. I don't think there are many who are in his league. But when I read an actual book, I want "style" to sit in the back of the bus where it belongs and let an artist with actual story-telling skills (like Perez) take the wheel. When style becomes more important than story-telling, you have 90's Image deja vu, not matter how good that style may be.

Buh? Seven Soldiers, Desolation Jones, hell... Chase. Williams is an excellent storyteller who has the added bonus of having one hell of a !@#$in' style. The biggest problem is that his art is time-consuming, and that's something that really kills mega-event books' momentum.

[Kelson]

Buh? Seven Soldiers, Desolation Jones, hell... Chase. Williams is an excellent storyteller who has the added bonus of having one hell of a !@#$in' style. The biggest problem is that his art is time-consuming, and that's something that really kills mega-event books' momentum.

Or Promethea (and to a lesser extent the Seven Soldiers conclusion), in which the art style was often part of the storytelling.

[paulski]

Joe, I love ya, but why do you keep saying that? I don't draw anything like Perez or Jimenez. I didn't grow up with their stuff to be influenced by it. Is it because we ostensibly all draw with small lines? Those guys are great, imho, but that's not where I came from. :confused:
Ethan, just wanted to say that I loved the recent Sinestro Corps special and I think it's the best work of your career so far. Good job! :cool:

[botch]

Van Scriver, to me, is still a third generation knock-off of an artist whose work I find lacking to begin with. Perez > Jimenez > Van Scriver (with a little < Bolland in there, too).

if you like perez over can scriver it either tells me you have no taste or you are an old loyal dude.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I had no idea that Ethan Van Sciver was a member of these boards.

I never knew why he never finished that S/B arc. Maybe it's the right time to ask...

[Flash's Lightning]

I had no idea that Ethan Van Sciver was a member of these boards.

I never knew why he never finished that S/B arc. Maybe it's the right time to ask...

It might be better to make another thread about it so we don't get off on a tangent. Maybe an Ethan Question & Answer thread. :D

[Jack Zodiac]

if you like perez over can scriver it either tells me you have no taste or you are an old loyal dude.

Wow. Just wow. One, Joe was kind of backhandedly putting Peréz' art down while comparing Ethan's style to his (which I don't see, honestly). Two, George's art is classic, highly detailed, filled with emotion, and complicated action. And three, Joe is old, but hardly a "loyal dude" when it comes to comic creators. He likes what's good and hates what sucks.

Also, if you're gonna' praise a guy's work, do 'im a favor and spell his name right.

[botch]

Final Crisis 2: Tokyo Drift

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

This is Busiek's project, right? That's the only thing keeping me even remotely interested, because Busiek has his hits and his misses, but the one thing I've never seen him do is write pure crap mega events.

I loved busiek's the-whole-crisis-in-four-pages in that issue zero (or was it 1/2 ?) .. . that came with wizard. it's a beautifully poetic view of a normal person who was retconned due to a "crisis" event and how something in him still was connected to his erased-from-continuity wife.

beautiful !!!!

[TheBoTT]

I loved busiek's the-whole-crisis-in-four-pages in that issue zero (or was it 1/2 ?) .. . that came with wizard. it's a beautifully poetic view of a normal person who was retconned due to a "crisis" event and how something in him still was connected to his erased-from-continuity wife.

beautiful !!!!

i think you are thinking of the astro city 1/2. At least that had a story of a guy remembering his erased wife.

[Magneto Rocks]

Im sort of sad with this,DC has now turned into Marvel.Putting up events just to get readers to buy more..when will it end?

How exactly does that mean they're turning into Marvel? DC were doing Identity Crisis and counting down to Infinite Crisis before Marvel had started House of M. DC were doing Infinite Crisis and 52 before/during Civil War. DC have been doing Countdown since the end of civil war.

If anything, it's Marvel who are turning into DC in thbis respect.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

i think you are thinking of the astro city 1/2. At least that had a story of a guy remembering his erased wife.

WOW. I think I'm gonna need to read Astro City one of these days.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

It might be better to make another thread about it so we don't get off on a tangent. Maybe an Ethan Question & Answer thread. :D

Cool idea. Perhaps we should do so for Roger Stern, Kurt Busiek (oh wait, he already has one at Superman Homepage) and Martin Pasko. Hell, we should ask them to bring in Grant Morrison.

EDIT: Wait. It would be best if they were the ones to open those threads. If one of us opened them, perhaps they'd feel forced/ pushed to give answers, and the idea is that they answer willingly, without pression.

[Flash's Lightning]

WOW. I think I'm gonna need to read Astro City one of these days.

Yes you should! I have the entire series except the recent Dark Ages issues. Great great stuff.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yes you should! I have the entire series except the recent Dark Ages issues. Great great stuff.

Thank you for the recommendation. I'm gonna talk to my comic book shop owner about it.

[DaeJi]

Im sort of sad with this,DC has now turned into Marvel.Putting up events just to get readers to buy more..when will it end?

Actually, I see it more as DC has had this one event going on for a few years now. Marvel may be pumping out events also, but at least they're different things and not just another part of a much, much, much greater whole.

[Flash230]

When I read the tagline "Heroes Die. Legends live forever" I didn't think "Someone is going to die" I thought...

"everyone is going to die"

Unless DC goes with a company-wide "hard reboot", the only other MAJOR change that could come out of a title called "Final Crisis" is to redo what DC did back in the 1950s.

In other words....

DC keeps the Big 3 as Clark Kent (Superman), Bruce Wayne (Batman), Diana "Prince" (Wonder Woman) and introduces an all new Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, etc....

So, just like when DC brought back "The Flash" and it WASN'T Jay Garrick but this "new guy" by the name of Barry Allen, I think DC may be going in this direction.

They'll keep the Big 3's aliases because even those who aren't comic book readers can probably tell you that Clark Kent is really Superman and Bruce Wayne is really Batman, and I believe that those aliases are just as marketable as the "super ones" but...when it comes to everyone else? Why not just introduce a whole new era of HEROES who bear the LEGENDARY names that DC has copyrighted?

Many comic book "historians" refer to the beginning of the Silver Age at the point where DC introduced Barry Allen as The Flash.

The "ages" that have come since the Silver Age ended have been far more debatable as to when they began and...if they've done so, ended.

So, how much more of a historic moment in time could there be than to...

1) Have DC do a hard reboot of their entire line

or...even bigger...

2) OFFICIALLY usher in the next MAJOR age after the Silver Age by bringing in an all new Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, etc... who have nothing to do with the former heroes associated with those superhero names?

HEROES (their aliases, supporting cast, and all mention of their former lives) die.

LEGENDS (the copyrighted superhero names you recognize) live forever.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

WOW. That's quite a theory. But I don't know. It seems something too drastic for DC to do.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I had no idea that Ethan Van Sciver was a member of these boards.

I never knew why he never finished that S/B arc. Maybe it's the right time to ask...

Just saw this, so I hope 666MasterOfPuppets is still checking the thread.

I left S/B to do SINESTRO CORPS #1. Geoff needed me then, and at the time, we were planning on bringing it out in April. It was a matter of poor timing, but in the end, I think it was the right thing to do. I'm sorry if it let you down in any way.

-EVS

[AdamEbert]

This may have been said before, but has anyone noticed the lightning bolts and beams of light going to green lantern and hawkman...the beam also touches Wonder Woman
.
.
.
Thoughts?

[TotalWorldDomination]

WOW. That's quite a theory. But I don't know. It seems something too drastic for DC to do.

When you insist that the word "Final" is the key part of the title and say it's the "crisis to end all crisies", you've got to do SOMTHING drastic or look like it was all just hype with no firepower to back it up.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Just saw this, so I hope 666MasterOfPuppets is still checking the thread.

I left S/B to do SINESTRO CORPS #1. Geoff needed me then, and at the time, we were planning on bringing it out in April. It was a matter of poor timing, but in the end, I think it was the right thing to do. I'm sorry if it let you down in any way.

-EVS

Thanx for the reply Ethan. Too bad you couldn't finish that S/B arc, but I sincerely hope to see you drawing Superman again someday.

This may have been said before, but has anyone noticed the lightning bolts and beams of light going to green lantern and hawkman...the beam also touches Wonder Woman
.
.
.
Thoughts?

Interesting. And those beams of light seem to come from the same place some of the characters look to...

When you insist that the word "Final" is the key part of the title and say it's the "crisis to end all crisies", you've got to do SOMTHING drastic or look like it was all just hype with no firepower to back it up.

Well, you're right about that.

[TheCrisisKid]

I like your theory, but there is already a new atom, and a new blue beetle. Kyle Rayner is still the new-age green lantern. There might be a new flash, but I don't think they would get rid of the current flash right when it comes back. Hal Jordan most likely won't die because he probably plays a big part in the new GL arc (blackest night). Wonder Woman could die and nothing would really change, so I could see that happening. Superman and Batman probably won't change. People will always recognize the people behind the suit as the heroes.

The big three could become the new, new gods I guess. That would keep their character in the story, but also give a chance for newer versions to come about.

It's weird. If DC does this, then they are combating the age problem in the opposite way Marvel is. Marvel keeps Spider-Man un-married to appeal to newer readers, but DC retires their older heroes to allow for newer ones to show up and entice new readers.

I personally prefer DC's approach.


...

In other words....

DC keeps the Big 3 as Clark Kent (Superman), Bruce Wayne (Batman), Diana "Prince" (Wonder Woman) and introduces an all new Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, etc....

...

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Hmmm... According to LiTG, the new New Gods were actually going to be the Big Three, allowing for new versions of them to appear, without getting them out completely. But that idea was scrapped.

I personally wouldn't like to see a Superman that isn't Kal-El/Clark Joseph Kent.

[gwor]

Hmm, I have a feeling that all the 'rumours' floating around are simply red herrings to drive fan speculation.

Seems to be working <g>...

[Choppa]

Well now we know what Batman's suit is from

[Slaughter]

I doubt they are going to reboot the DCU in Final Crisis due to The Blackest Night. And Didio already said that they are not going to erase the multiverse.

[J4Joker]

Yeah, Final Crisis will wrap up, then we'll have a 52 issue weekly comic called "Crisis Control" where obscure characters have a bunch of ho-hum adventures that ultimately leads to "Eternity Crisis" where another Flash and Superman variant is killed. Than after that we'll have ANOTHER 52 issue weekly comic series that leads up to ANOTHER Crisis...ad nauseum.

[Conner_Kent]

1 thats in no way a "Trailer" so plz change the title atleast

2. were all gonna be waiting on Final Crisis: The Attack of the Wedge People

bum bum bum lol

[Flash230]

Hmmm... According to LiTG, the new New Gods were actually going to be the Big Three, allowing for new versions of them to appear, without getting them out completely. But that idea was scrapped.

I personally wouldn't like to see a Superman that isn't Kal-El/Clark Joseph Kent.

We've already seen a Superman that isn't Kal-El, but who was Clark Kent, that person being Kal-L.

So, maybe this "Fifth World" we're hearing about will feature the iconic versions of Superman/Clark Kent, Batman/Bruce Wayne, Wonder Woman/Diana Prince, and then "below them" will be the multiverse with many other versions of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc.... with one of those worlds (Earth 1?) being the "main" Earth we'll mostly see every month, in which DC will do a hard reboot and start everything from scratch in that one universe. (Much like Marvel's Ultimate Universe)

The worst that can happen if that strategy doesn't work-out is that you destroy this new, rebooted universe, (much like Marvel did with the Heroes Reborn Universe) and the "Fifth World" version of Superman "Returns" (tying into the movie title) back into the "main" DC world we see published every month, along with the Fifth World's Batman & Wonder Woman.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

We've already seen a Superman that isn't Kal-El, but who was Clark Kent, that person being Kal-L.

Sure, but what I meant is that the "main" Superman is New Earth's Superman/Kal-El/Clark J. Kent, and I wouldn't like to see another guy taking his place.

So, maybe this "Fifth World" we're hearing about will feature the iconic versions of Superman/Clark Kent, Batman/Bruce Wayne, Wonder Woman/Diana Prince, and then "below them" will be the multiverse with many other versions of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc.... with one of those worlds (Earth 1?) being the "main" Earth we'll mostly see every month, in which DC will do a hard reboot and start everything from scratch in that one universe. (Much like Marvel's Ultimate Universe)

The worst that can happen if that strategy doesn't work-out is that you destroy this new, rebooted universe, (much like Marvel did with the Heroes Reborn Universe) and the "Fifth World" version of Superman "Returns" (tying into the movie title) back into the "main" DC world we see published every month, along with the Fifth World's Batman & Wonder Woman.

Interesting, but I dunno. I'll guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm most intrigued by this Fifth World thing.

[botch]

When I read the tagline "Heroes Die. Legends live forever" I didn't think "Someone is going to die" I thought...

"everyone is going to die"

Unless DC goes with a company-wide "hard reboot", the only other MAJOR change that could come out of a title called "Final Crisis" is to redo what DC did back in the 1950s.

In other words....

DC keeps the Big 3 as Clark Kent (Superman), Bruce Wayne (Batman), Diana "Prince" (Wonder Woman) and introduces an all new Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, etc....

So, just like when DC brought back "The Flash" and it WASN'T Jay Garrick but this "new guy" by the name of Barry Allen, I think DC may be going in this direction.

They'll keep the Big 3's aliases because even those who aren't comic book readers can probably tell you that Clark Kent is really Superman and Bruce Wayne is really Batman, and I believe that those aliases are just as marketable as the "super ones" but...when it comes to everyone else? Why not just introduce a whole new era of HEROES who bear the LEGENDARY names that DC has copyrighted?

Many comic book "historians" refer to the beginning of the Silver Age at the point where DC introduced Barry Allen as The Flash.

The "ages" that have come since the Silver Age ended have been far more debatable as to when they began and...if they've done so, ended.

So, how much more of a historic moment in time could there be than to...

1) Have DC do a hard reboot of their entire line

or...even bigger...

2) OFFICIALLY usher in the next MAJOR age after the Silver Age by bringing in an all new Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, etc... who have nothing to do with the former heroes associated with those superhero names?

HEROES (their aliases, supporting cast, and all mention of their former lives) die.

LEGENDS (the copyrighted superhero names you recognize) live forever.

DC would elevate their younger heroes to senior status before introducing new heroes. IE Dick Grayson would become Batman, Tempest would become Aquaman, Kyle will be THE Green Lantern again, Donna will become Wonder Woman etc etc. I would go for that, and all the Iconic heroes live as New Gods, works storywise and marketing wise, you can tell iconic stories of Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman without falling into continuity, whilst the DCU continues with the Grown up Heroes.

[botch]

JH is aces on cover art. I don't think there are many who are in his league. But when I read an actual book, I want "style" to sit in the back of the bus where it belongs and let an artist with actual story-telling skills (like Perez) take the wheel. When style becomes more important than story-telling, you have 90's Image deja vu, not matter how good that style may be.

God. this is the mark of a comic book geek who doesn't live in the real world. Perez's art is cartoony, non pleasant. Comic books are a visual medium. JH Williams' stuff looks better. To the mainstream person, they would prefer JH Williams' art than Perez's whose stuff no matter how influential is comic booky and doesn't look like anything special(apart from those mega spreads) but his style looks like something anyone can do. Even if JH couldn't tell a story which he can, I rather look at his stuff than Perez's boring cartoony art which I can see in many other comic books. I respect the man and I have many of his books but when it comes to people putting better 'artists' down and holding Perez on a pedastal because they grew up with him and they hold his influence as more important than actual art, it makes me mad. Perez draws comic books. JH Williams makes art.

[Flash230]

DC would elevate their younger heroes to senior status before introducing new heroes. IE Dick Grayson would become Batman, Tempest would become Aquaman, Kyle will be THE Green Lantern again, Donna will become Wonder Woman etc etc. I would go for that, and all the Iconic heroes live as New Gods, works storywise and marketing wise, you can tell iconic stories of Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman without falling into continuity, whilst the DCU continues with the Grown up Heroes.

You propose an even better option. Maybe the All-Star line could feature DC's Fifth World where all the iconic heroes' stories will be told without worrying about continuity, and the "Main-stream" DCU will feature the "elevated" younger heroes in continuity-based stories.

Maybe this is why Chris Kent was introduced and Superboy was killed-off? (I mean to state that, while Batman & Wonder Woman's succesors would be pretty obvious, who would take-up the Superman mantle if this were done?)