Quantum-Bands vs. Cosmic Control Rod

[wallred]

Lots of us Quasar fans tend to think that Quasar was defeated by Annihilus much, much too easily (actually, that might be a bit of an understatement). Anyway, I took it upon myself to research good ol' Annihilus and the Cosmic Control Rod. I used his entry in Wikipedia, his Marvel Chronology Project page, and his Marvel page. Here are the links...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilus
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Annihilus
http://chronologyproject.com/a.htm

Anyway, here are the results of this research...

Annihilus
Fantastic Four Annual #6
- "My life-giving...life prolinging Cosmic Control Rod" - Annihilus
- blasts Reed with Cosmic Control Rod (lowest setting)
- "cosmic control device...whose energy can be regulated..." - Reed
- Annihilus blasts some monsters into nothingness
- Annihilus hurls Reed into cell
- Reed creastes a sheild of purest cosmic force
- Reed levitates himself, Ben, and Johnny
- Reed repels a missile
- Reed drains of a bit of its energy into a vial (?) to save Sue and the baby.

Fantastic Four #108
- Annihilus didn't use Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #109
- Annihilus douses Johnny's flame with a blast
- Annihilus creates a force-field around himself
- Annihilus summons a monster
- Annihilus shattered a boulder

Fantastic Four #110
- Annihilus didn't use Cosmic Control Rod

Avengers #89
- Annihilus didn't use Cosmic Control Rod

Marvel Team-Up #2

Avengers #96
- Annihilus didn't use Cosmic Control Rod

Avengers #97
- Annihilus didn't use Cosmic Control Rod

Marvel: Shadows & Light #1 (3rd Story)

Fantastic Four #140
- Annihilus blasts the Human Torch
- Annihilus creates solid energy handcuffs for Wyatt Wingfoot
- Annihuls reveals origin
- "...and our pride led us to arrogance. We built vast factories, in which we manufactured the seeds of life...and we sealed those living spores in golden cannisters of power, that they might survive the rigors of an incredible voyage......a voyage to seed the stars!" - Tyanna Seed Ship Captain
- "I have taken power from the life canisters...and have created my Cosmic Control Rod..." - Annihilus

Fantastic Four #141
- Annihilus insists that Reed's draining of energy from the Cosmic Control Rod has made it so that it no longer makes him immortal.
- Annihilus starts draining energy from Franklin
- Annihilus blasts Johnny several times, but misses

Captain Marvel #35

Captain Marvel #37

Fantastic Four #179
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #181
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #182
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #183
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Marve Two-In-One #75

Marvel Fanfare #2 (2nd Story)

Fantastic Four #251
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #252
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #253
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #254
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #255
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Avengers #233
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #256
- Annihilus didn't possess the Cosmic Control Rod

Fantastic Four #289
- Blastaar possesses the Cosmic Control Rod but doesn't use it.
- Sue Storm steals the Cosmic Control Rod and uses it to absorb one of Blastaar's blasts.
- Johnny Storm tosses the Cosmic Control Rod into a field thinking to destroy it, but actually gives it to Annihilus.
- The Cosmic Control Rod restores Annihilus

Fantastic Four #290
- Annihilus has apparently blasted Sue, Johnny, and She-Hulk into unconsciousness.
- Annihilus blasts Blastaar.
- Annihilus blasts Blastaar with the Cosmic Control Rod at almost full power. Blastaar screams but it doesn't knock him out.
- Annihulus vaporizes some of Blastaar's troops, and is apparently vaporized in the Distortion Area.

Thor #404

Thor #405

Infinity Gauntlet #5
- Annihilus didn't use Cosmic Control Rod

Thor #434

Thor #435

Fantastic Four Unlimited #3

DC vs. Marvel #1

Bug

Warlock (Volume 3) #3

Warlock (Volume 3) #4

Fantastic Four (Volume 3) #43

Fantastic Four (Volume 3) #44

I don't have info on some issues, but it really appears to me that something created from a starship engine and life-seed capsules shouldn't, wouldn't, and couldn't be more powerful than the Quantum-Bands, indestructible instruments of infinite energy.
Anybody feel like filling in the blanks?

[DaeJi]

Annihilus was far more poweful in Annihilation than he's ever been. It would seem that before the event he got a major mojo upgrade that no one saw coming. Found the quote from Andy regarding the Q-Bands and the CCR:


Great question, let me explain the CCR and its relationship with the Q bands. Now listen very carefully, it took us all a heck of a lot of time and consideration to piece this all together back when we were first putting ANNIHILATION together. It goes like this....

Way back in the annals of Negative-Zone history, the CCR was designed with "negating" the weapons of the Univeral Protector. :D

It's technical.

[Expletive Deleted]

There are a few no-prize-y explanations for why it would work against Quasar (most of them boiling down to the CCR being from the Negative Zone), but I think everyone's already made up their mind on whether or not those explanations could ever be good enough.

That's a neat list of Annihilus appearances, though. Thanks.

[marshal99]

Simply put , up to the writers to write whatever they want. Sadly Joe Q & Giffen isn't much of a fan of Wendell so they sacrificed him to build up Annihilius.

[The Deadpool]

Well, they pumped up Annihilus considerably for Annihilation. The HOW bugs me, but it's clear he was far more powerful there than ever before...

[Will.S]

I don't mind that Annihilus was that effective against Quasar as long as they keep Annihilus as Quasar's most dangerous threat.

Like I could see Annihilus with the CCR trying to suck in or negate Phyla's powers so she prevents that from happening by either running away or finding out a newer way of dealing with that type of attack.

[The Deadpool]

Rememeber the Wolrdmind tells Richard Annihilus "outclasses you in every way."

That means the Annihilus that killed Quasar was more powerful than the Garthan Saal who beat the East/West Coast avengers, Strange, FF and Firelord silly...

[Will.S]

Rememeber the Wolrdmind tells Richard Annihilus "outclasses you in every way."

That means the Annihilus that killed Quasar was more powerful than the Garthan Saal who beat the East/West Coast avengers, Strange, FF and Firelord silly...
Jeez, he did all that?

So current Nova is working on the same power level as Garthan? You can tell that he's definitely holding back when he fights guys like the T-Bolts.

[DaeJi]

You know, the whole time during Annihilation it looked like Rich was holding back, and didn't seems as powerful as Saal was. Prehaps the Worldmind block access to a lot of the power in an attempt to keep him sane.

[Baltho08]

Yeah, the Worldmind regulates Richard Rider's power; that's why he always asks the Worldmind to give him access to his abilities (i.e. full power to blasters, etc.). It's the only thing that actually keeps Richard from going insane, I would bet.
Peace.

[wallred]

Well, they pumped up Annihilus considerably for Annihilation. The HOW bugs me, but it's clear he was far more powerful there than ever before...

The HOW bugs me, too. Looking back through his appearances, he's been spanked by the Fantastic Four, Avengers, Blastaar, etc. Actually, Kurt Busiek pointed out that Wendell was is one of the most conscientious Avengers. A fact supported by Wendell's recognition of Morgan LeFey in Avengers #1 (Volume 3). At this point, the Avengers had only ever encountered her once. Someone like Annihilus, he should have recognized immediately (as both the Fantastic Four and Avengers had encountered him previously) and stayed the heck away from him. I know I've probably said this before, but it wasn't really a good death. He didn't choose to die heroically, he got eaten because he was being stupid...i.e. not using all of the resources available to him.
Honestly, I just want my Quasar back. Having said that, I don't want them to get rid of Phylla to do it. Phylla now has her fans, and I wouldn't want what's been done to us Wendell fans done to them. However, Phylla currently exists at the expense of Wendell, so something is going to have to change for us to get Wendell back.
Ultimately, I guess it just annoys me that my favorite character was simply used as fodder to make Annihilus look tougher. It's one thing to be a supporting character, quite another to be fodder. The latter shows a distinct lack of respect for the character...at least in my opinion.
Wow, I'm rambling.
My point is that the Cosmic Control Rod (a starship drive with the power of some cannisters) is NOT more powerful than the Quantum-Bands.
Quasar should have spanked Annihilus. :)

[K Von Doom]

It's a bit sad that a being who has fought and vanquished a true universal threat, Maelstrom, and held his own for a little bit against another universal threat, the Infinity Gauntlet wielding Thanos, jobs toa villain who would be pimpslapped by the two aforementioned characters. In Cosmos in Collision; beings such as Galactus, the whole race of Watchers, a Celestial host and various alien races didn't even dare get involved in the fight that Quasar took part in. In an Infinity Gauntlet tie-in, Quasar created two 100-megaton bombs next to Thanos' head to try and kill him. In Annihilation, Quasar couldn't even defend himself against the Cosmic Control Rod, a weapon the Fantastic Four regularly faced and triumphed over.

[Euks]

I think they pumped up Annihilus somewhere along the way with the resources of the Negative Zone. Or maybe he absorbed the Power Cosmic out of one of those heralds that he ran into and captured. Or he tapped into the opposing force that Ravenous and his troops used.

Or maybe he's just a skrull. :p

[ColdFury]

It's a bit sad that a being who has fought and vanquished a true universal threat, Maelstrom, and held his own for a little bit against another universal threat, the Infinity Gauntlet wielding Thanos, jobs toa villain who would be pimpslapped by the two aforementioned characters. In Cosmos in Collision; beings such as Galactus, the whole race of Watchers, a Celestial host and various alien races didn't even dare get involved in the fight that Quasar took part in. In an Infinity Gauntlet tie-in, Quasar created two 100-megaton bombs next to Thanos' head to try and kill him. In Annihilation, Quasar couldn't even defend himself against the Cosmic Control Rod, a weapon the Fantastic Four regularly faced and triumphed over.

To be fair, Maelstrom doesn't have the most impressive track record. A guy who gets defeated by the Great Lakes Avengers loses a few credibility points on the villain scale.

That said, I really want Wendell back as Quasar. And, as a bonus, actively appearing in things would be cool, too!

[wallred]

To be fair, Maelstrom doesn't have the most impressive track record. A guy who gets defeated by the Great Lakes Avengers loses a few credibility points on the villain scale.

That said, I really want Wendell back as Quasar. And, as a bonus, actively appearing in things would be cool, too!

Gru went to a great deal of trouble explaining how Maelstrom got powered up, though. Not something we've seen with Annihilus. Actually, I just considered the massive numbers of the Wave the true power of Annihilus...until he ate Quasar, that is.

[Satyrquaze]

Being the guy who brought this up back when Andy was still answering questions, I feel it nessicary to weigh in on the subject.

Apparently, the Annihilus of "Annihilation" outclassed Nova in every possible way (according to the Worldmind) when he possesed the entirety of the Nova-Force. I like to think that Annihilus controls the "Opposing Force" (maybe to a stronger degree) than Ravenous does, it would explain why Ravenous is so friggen loyal. I'd be semi-loyal to a guy who could turn my insides out with a thought.:rolleyes:

So logically, I have little problem with Annihilus outclassing Quasar (Yes DaeJi, when I say Quasar, I mean Wendell Vaughn) as badly as he did.

Would I have liked Quasar to survive? Yes. Do I think Nova stood by and did nothing as Quasar died? Just a bit. Should Quasar come back? Given what happened and the way he/his legacy has been mistreated/abruptly created I'm sort of torn on it. On one hand I want my favorite character back. On the other hand maybe this posthumous "invented legacy" respect is the only respect he'll ever receive in comics continuity with the exception of books written by Mark Gruenwald.

[DaeJi]

So logically, I have little problem with Annihilus outclassing Quasar (Yes DaeJi, when I say Quasar, I mean Wendell Vaughn) as badly as he did.



Nooo... really? Gee, I thought everyone always meant Phyla when they said Quasar :rolleyes:

Really, I would like to know where this new power of Annihilus came from. I don't mind that he's now all uber, but some explaination would be nice as Quasar should really have owned him, bad.

[Satyrquaze]

Really, I would like to know where this new power of Annihilus came from. I don't mind that he's now all ubber, but some explaination would be nice as Quasar should really owned him, bad.

It would be kinda useful to find out how he got suddenly much more powerful than the entire Nova-Force... ;)

[marshal99]

Giffen isn't big on explainations , i'm still trying to figure out how Drax suddenly got resurrected with a new form that suddenly can kill Thanos when for the last couple of times , Drax hasn't been able to.

[Cthulhudrew]

Giffen isn't big on explainations , i'm still trying to figure out how Drax suddenly got resurrected with a new form that suddenly can kill Thanos when for the last couple of times , Drax hasn't been able to.

Well, we'll never know if the last incarnation of Drax (mindless brute) would have been able to kill Thanos or not, as Thanos acquired (unexpectedly, by anyone's assumption) the Infinity Gauntlet shortly after he was resurrected. By the time Thanos had been divested of the Gauntlet, Drax was no longer looking to kill him anymore.

[The Deadpool]

Jeez, he did all that?

So current Nova is working on the same power level as Garthan? You can tell that he's definitely holding back when he fights guys like the T-Bolts.

Richard is slightly more powerful than Garthan actually...


The HOW bugs me, too. Looking back through his appearances, he's been spanked by the Fantastic Four, Avengers, Blastaar, etc. Actually, Kurt Busiek pointed out that Wendell was is one of the most conscientious Avengers. A fact supported by Wendell's recognition of Morgan LeFey in Avengers #1 (Volume 3). At this point, the Avengers had only ever encountered her once. Someone like Annihilus, he should have recognized immediately (as both the Fantastic Four and Avengers had encountered him previously) and stayed the heck away from him.

He knew Annihilus. He didn't recognize him just by looking at the A-Wave, but he knew who Annihilus was. And he knew how powerful. But ten minutes and counting... He made a choice. To fight to the death lest he let those colonists die. Same as Richard did. That call was made several pages before he even met Annihilus.

And yeah, I considered the Opposing Force too. He certaintly didn't have minions running around with that before, and he's not the type to give up power easily...

[cduceil]

So let me get this straight, Annihilus "outclasses" Nova in "every way", and Ravenous' "Opposing Force" makes him an equal to the Silver Surfer. That would mean that Annihilus is much more powerful than the Silver Surfer; I find that very had to believe and explain (let's get it together Marvel).

I really loved Annihilation, but I do find it odd that Annihilus is that powerful. Marvel really needs to explain this in further detail.

[K Von Doom]

You know what would have been a smarter move than Quasar fighting to the death? Grabbing Annihilus and dumping him in the Quantum Zone; a tactic, I believe, Quasar has done a few times but conveniently forgot about in the series. In the business of 'Universe Protecting' and in Quasar's history, the universe was always hours, minutes or seconds away from being destroyed by some dude so for a Protector of the Universe whose bread and butter was figuring out non conventional ways of defeating opponents, it was a bit of a bone headed move and out of character to try and just slug it out with Annihilus. He should have known better from experience and Eon/Epoch would have taught him better than that.

[DaeJi]

There wasn't much of a fight; I don't think Quasar knew how powerful Annihilus had become until it was too late. Had Wendell known before hand of Annihilus's power boost he probably would have done things a lot differently and not confront him head.

[Dorsai]

I believe the CCR also absorbs energy and makes it available to Annihilus. I would think that the CCR would work much better against a foe like Quasar (energy based) than a foe like most of the FF (minus the Human Torch). I would think that the greater the ability to discharge energy, the more vulnerable a foe would be.

This is an assumption... I would have thought that for quite some time, Annihilus was seeking out and absorbing energy sources with destroying the universe in mind. I can believe he would have been stronger this time around than last. When he encountered Quasar, he basically absorbed him. The only thing Quasar really could have done was keep his distance. He began to absorb Nova but was stopped only because Annihilus himself broke off the attack because the Worldmind corrupted wave.

Based on my understanding of the CCR, I would think the most successful foe against Annihilus is one that uses only physical attacks of great force -- and in the end, he was beat by a physical attack.

I'm not necessarily suprised that he defeated Quasar and not Nova in their first encounter. But it did make me wonder what the absorbtion limits of the CCR might be. He was able to empower a being to be the equal of a Herald as well as absorbing a large amount of the Quantum force. I will also assume that some of the energy siphoned from the Glactus gun also went to the CCR.

From his comments, didn't Annihilus hint that the strange Gravemetric force he sensed was greater than the Quantum Force he sensed?

"This is the one I sensed-- The one with the Gravimetric Power. This other one also radiates energy. Not so bright, but still...appetizing."

[The Deadpool]

So let me get this straight, Annihilus "outclasses" Nova in "every way", and Ravenous' "Opposing Force" makes him an equal to the Silver Surfer. That would mean that Annihilus is much more powerful than the Silver Surfer; I find that very had to believe and explain (let's get it together Marvel).

Ravenous Opposing Force came from Annihilus. Annihilus gave him enough to face the Heralds, but I highly doubt he'd give him Ravenous more than a small portion of his grand total.

Remember, Annihilus is GREEDY for power. He'd make sure none of his subordinates stand a chance against him...

[DaeJi]

The Opposing Force was held in the currs, not the man himself. As to whether the currs were a natural race or created to hold the power is up in the air.

[superion]

Well somehow Annihilus got control of the opposing force and was able to grant part of it to his soldiers making them almost as powerful as Galactus heralds so that automatically puts him way above Quasar in power. The question is how he came upon that power.

I like Phyla as the new Quasar. If they bring Wendall back they can bring him back as a member of the Nova Force, the new Captain Universe or Starhawk. No one wants to bring back the GOG so they can reintroduce some of the concepts into the current Marvel universe

[marshal99]

There wasn't much of a fight; I don't think Quasar knew how powerful Annihilus had become until it was too late. Had Wendell known before hand of Annihilus's power boost he probably would have done things a lot differently and not confront him head.

Quasar has fought so many powerful beings in his series and he was a rookie then. He wasn't a rookie anymore when he confronted Annihilus but the way it happened makes him out like a total pathetic whiny rookie , "Nooooooo , how can this be happening to me , noooooo".
Quasar has taken on the phoenix , binary , silver surfer etc and never flinched.

[The Deadpool]

The Opposing Force was held in the currs, not the man himself. As to whether the currs were a natural race or created to hold the power is up in the air.

Ravenous says they are specifically bred... And that it was Annihilus that gave them (the Seekers he meant at the time, and Surfer later proved it was the currs themselves) the Opposing Force...

so yeah, definetely not natural...

[The Deadpool]

Quasar has fought so many powerful beings in his series and he was a rookie then. He wasn't a rookie anymore when he confronted Annihilus but the way it happened makes him out like a total pathetic whiny rookie , "Nooooooo , how can this be happening to me , noooooo".
Quasar has taken on the phoenix , binary , silver surfer etc and never flinched.

Btw, at that point, Annihilus could probably beat all mentioned... Hell, he could take the last two combined for sure.

Quasar's downfall was KNOWING Annihilus. He expected something completely weaker than what he got... By the time he figured it out, it was too late... Annihilus had him ensnared already.

[DaeJi]

Bingo. Imagine if, say... the Shocker gained the power of a Herald of Galatus. He doesn't look any different (admittly Annihilus did though), and isn't doing anything that would suggest he's anymore powerful than usual. Say Spider-Man is swinging by, and sees the Shocker, and knowing who he is and what his usual power level is, decides to engage him. But lo and behold, Shocker's now as powerful as a Herald, but it's too late by the time Spidey realizes his mistake.

That's probably what happened with Quasar and Annihilus. Now though, Annihilus's power is known, and I doubt the new Quasar will make the same mistake, and should Wendell come back I know he won't make the same mistake.

[The Deadpool]

Btw, before anyone says it's pure conjecture... Quasar DOES mention he'd been warned about Annihilus. And Annihilus even replies "not well enough"...

[IMJ]

This all happened because Annihilus is actually a Skrull (and so was Wendell) and they orchastrated the fake death of the Skrull empire to make them look weak when they are not.

The real Wendell is 4 universes away eating potato chips with Andy Schmidt.

[K Von Doom]

I still say Quasar was written way out of character. Given that the first time Quasar encountered Thanos (with the IG), the Quantum Bands were able to sense the level of power from the gauntlet, even though the artifact was virtually unknown to Quasar at the time. Wendell had information on Annihilus, the Quantum bands would/should have informed Quasar about the kind of power Annihilus and the cosmic control rod had. In the past when facing known and unknown villains, not once has Wendell gone "Wow, you're more powerful than I expected" because, aside from magic, the Q-bands give him that kind of information.

Ironic though that Moondragon once had the hots for Wendell Protector of the Universe and actively pursued him, now she's with a person who's currently "Protector of the Universe". Coincidence?

[DaeJi]

Ironic though that Moondragon once had the hots for Wendell Protector of the Universe and actively pursued him, now she's with a person who's currently "Protector of the Universe". Coincidence?

Yes, Unless PAD is just that good.

[The Deadpool]

I'd expect the Q-Bands to know something of the Infinity Gauntlet.

Knowledge of the Opposing Force may be a little complicated. Also remember the time frame. Annihilus did not posture, talk, taunt, try to impress... He slapped both Nova and Wendell away. Wendell stood back up and Annihilus was on him. Not much time to think, plan, work out a way around, whatever...

[K Von Doom]

Actually Quasar knew virtually nothing about the gems. When he fought Warlock during the Infinity War (Earth heroes vs Infinity Watch), Quasar was only able to sense that Warlock's main power source was coming from the gem on his forehead and tried to pry it off with the Q-bands. He may have been told about the Infinity Gems by Cap or read through Avengers and Shield files but he still didn't know what he was looking at when he fought Warlock, only that there was an enormous amount of power in the gem.

As for Annihilus being on Quasar before Wendell was able to assess the situation. Given Quasar's experience in fighting speedsters (Silver Surfer, Deathurge), unpredictable entities (Thanos, Absorbing Man) and beings with more power than him (4 former Protectors), in addition to his training with SHIELD and the Avengers as well as hanging around equally powered beings (Kismet, Makkari, Moondragon); he should have been able to mount a decent hit and run tactic and create some space between himself and Annihilus, as Quasar usually does when fighting cosmic powered beings. Bungling into a straight up offensive fight against Annihilus was out of character.

[Quasar's Bands]

My point is that the Cosmic Control Rod (a starship drive with the power of some cannisters) is NOT more powerful than the Quantum-Bands.
Quasar should have spanked Annihilus. :)

I don't believe the CCR IS a starship drive with the power of some cannisters. All we have is Annihilus' word - who believes that? I think the CCR is the negative zone "opposite" of the Bands - I really do. Created to suck in power and send it out in a much more basic way than the Bands - but created by something far older even then the race that was using it for their starship.

[K Von Doom]

I don't believe the CCR IS a starship drive with the power of some cannisters. All we have is Annihilus' word - who believes that? I think the CCR is the negative zone "opposite" of the Bands - I really do. Created to suck in power and send it out in a much more basic way than the Bands - but created by something far older even then the race that was using it for their starship.

Whether or not the cosmic control rod is a starship drive or not, the fact remains that it should not be more powerful than the weapons given to the 'Protector of the Universe' (not a self proclaimed title such as 'Guardians of the Galaxy' but an office appointed by and recognized by cosmic beings). There certainly are artifacts that should be more powerful, such as the Infinity Gauntlet, Starbrand and the Nullifier. But if a weapon such as the cosmic control rod IS more powerful than the Quantum Bands, certainly more people should have tried to take it from Annihilus. Either that or Annihilus should have been able to accomplish more with it in the past.

[Will.S]

Whether or not the cosmic control rod is a starship drive or not, the fact remains that it should not be more powerful than the weapons given to the 'Protector of the Universe' (not a self proclaimed title such as 'Guardians of the Galaxy' but an office appointed by and recognized by cosmic beings). There certainly are artifacts that should be more powerful, such as the Infinity Gauntlet, Starbrand and the Nullifier. But if a weapon such as the cosmic control rod IS more powerful than the Quantum Bands, certainly more people should have tried to take it from Annihilus. Either that or Annihilus should have been able to accomplish more with it in the past.
The problem is that we don't know how Annihilus got that powerful before Annihilation. Also we were given certain explanations of the opposing force but we only know that Ravenous possessed such a power and gave a portion of it to the currs and his minions. I mean, it's entirely possible that Annihilus was finally able to harness the true power of the CCR and it's particularly effective against Quasar, maybe he harnessed the opposing force and he has that in conjunction with the CCR.

Has Quasar ever fought Annihilus before Annihilation?

I think something of a prequel to Annihilation could be done to show how Annihilus came to be that powerful. There was a gap of time after Fantastic Four Foes when the two Annihilus guys fought and before the Annihilation Prologue. I'd also like to see Ravenous's beginnings.

[K Von Doom]

The problem is that we don't know how Annihilus got that powerful before Annihilation. Also we were given certain explanations of the opposing force but we only know that Ravenous possessed such a power and gave a portion of it to the currs and his minions. I mean, it's entirely possible that Annihilus was finally able to harness the true power of the CCR and it's particularly effective against Quasar, maybe he harnessed the opposing force and he has that in conjunction with the CCR.

Has Quasar ever fought Annihilus before Annihilation?

I think something of a prequel to Annihilation could be done to show how Annihilus came to be that powerful. There was a gap of time after Fantastic Four Foes when the two Annihilus guys fought and before the Annihilation Prologue. I'd also like to see Ravenous's beginnings.

Yeah. An Annihilus Quest or prologue should be told to explain it. Currently it's like reading Infinity Gauntlet without Thanos Quest and Infinity Gauntlet #1.

... but not as good as The Infinity Gauntlet.

[DaeJi]

I support an Annihilation Prologue telling how Annihilus got so powerful. And why his form changed.

[Satyrquaze]

I support an Annihilation Prologue telling how Annihilus got so powerful. And why his form changed.

Maybe it'll be printed as part of the essential Quasar collection.

[Expletive Deleted]

You don't get new material in an Essential collection.

[Satyrquaze]

We probably won't get a Quasar Essential collection anyway... so my math is good.

[Will.S]

Just to put this out again, has Quasar ever fought and beaten Annihilus in the past?

[DaeJi]

I'm not sure, but given his dialogue in Annihilation: Nova #4 I believe that was the first time he's come face to face with Annihilus.

[wallred]

I don't believe the CCR IS a starship drive with the power of some cannisters. All we have is Annihilus' word - who believes that? I think the CCR is the negative zone "opposite" of the Bands - I really do. Created to suck in power and send it out in a much more basic way than the Bands - but created by something far older even then the race that was using it for their starship.

This actually makes sense, but the only origin we have is the one that Annihilus has given us, everything else is just speculation because there has been no explanation for the immense power-up.
Also, is the Nova Force potentially more powerful than the infinite power that the Bands can channel from the Quantum Zone?
Is the Nova Force infinite?

[Euks]

This actually makes sense, but the only origin we have is the one that Annihilus has given us, everything else is just speculation because there has been no explanation for the immense power-up.
Also, is the Nova Force potentially more powerful than the infinite power that the Bands can channel from the Quantum Zone?
Is the Nova Force infinite?

I believe that both the Quantum Zone's energies and the Nova Force are infinite. Really there's tons of "infinite" or near-infinite power sources: the Power Cosmic, the Black Matter (the Fallen One's power source), whatever Thanos tapped into, Odinsmight, the Infinite Gems, Cosmic Cubes, heart of the universe, whatever powers most of the cosmics draw on, etc. I always assumed Thanos was referring to these power sources when he was discussing the Power Cosmic with Annihilus.

The way I see it is what differentiates them is how powerful the energy is, and how much can be drawn at once. The latter rests mostly on the user or the equipment. From Annihilus' statement, it does seem that the full power of the Nova Force is stronger than the Quantum Bands.

[Euks]

Whether or not the cosmic control rod is a starship drive or not, the fact remains that it should not be more powerful than the weapons given to the 'Protector of the Universe' (not a self proclaimed title such as 'Guardians of the Galaxy' but an office appointed by and recognized by cosmic beings). There certainly are artifacts that should be more powerful, such as the Infinity Gauntlet, Starbrand and the Nullifier. But if a weapon such as the cosmic control rod IS more powerful than the Quantum Bands, certainly more people should have tried to take it from Annihilus. Either that or Annihilus should have been able to accomplish more with it in the past.

Who's to say that the Cosmic Control Rod hasn't been upgraded from what it used to be? I think that would only make sense given the rest of the upgrades Annihilus got. He did claim the Negative Zone's resources were infinite. He could of found some way to upgrade the CCR which led to his much greater power levels.

[wallred]

Just to put this out again, has Quasar ever fought and beaten Annihilus in the past?

Nope...never went up against him that I've seen. As an Avenger, though, I would imagine he's studied both the Fantastic Four's and Avengers' encounters with him. Wendell has gone toe-to-toe with the Silver Surfer, though, so he's clearly a cosmic powerhouse.
I was just skimming through some back issues (double-checking how the Bands have behaved) and ran across a little prophecy from Origin...

"Now take your bands and go. We shall meet again in a few of your years...after I have come to term." - Origin from Quasar #47, Page 20.

[Quasar's Bands]

Acutally, there might have been one other time the origin was discussed - an issue of FF I don't have. Some special or annual that involved the lion-like alien race that created life in the Negative Zone, and created the ship from which the CCR was allegedly taken. Maybe in that issue, the alien race discussed the CCR. Not sure - I don't have that issue and just read about it.

[Quasar's Bands]

Acutally, there might have been one other time the origin was discussed - an issue of FF I don't have. Some special or annual that involved the lion-like alien race that created life in the Negative Zone, and created the ship from which the CCR was allegedly taken. Maybe in that issue, the alien race discussed the CCR. Not sure - I don't have that issue and just read about it.

Fantastic Four Unlimited #3 apparently dealt with this race of aliens and the Brute's lording over them. Given that the Tyannans (that's the race) were the focus of this story - anyone have a copy that discusses their version of the CCR and where it comes from?