High Plains Drifter

[Lone Ranger]

Yup - I'd like to have an in depth discussion about a 34 year old film.

For one reason or another, this was one of the only Clint Eastwood I hadn't seen. It was on TCM a couple of weeks ago, so I recorded and my wife and I say down to watch it last night.

F*ck, did I love this movie! It is so dark and moody, but there is some sly humour thrown in there. It was just great from beginning to end, and Eastwod simply commands the screen and the casting was brilliant at every level. Next time someone offers me a 'little bonus', I am going to respond 'How little?' This one is likely in my top 10 westerns now.

I am sure that this is a topic that has been discussed to death amongst Eastwood acolytes, but I'd be interested in what folks on here seem to think.

Spoiler Alert

At first, I just assumed that the 'Stranger' character was the Marshal, returning to town to seek his revenge. As things moved along and I found out he actually had a grave, I became confused as to his identity (I also thought he'd have some telltale scars).

So, just who is this Stranger?

1) Marshal Duncan (he never died)
2) Brother or relative or Duncan
3) Duncan's Ghost
4) Spirit of Vengeance (Death riding a pale horse, as in Revelations)
5) Other

I woke up this morning and it was still on my mind, so I'd love to hear what others think.

[Dennis K]

I too love this movie and have always assumed it was the Marshal's ghost.

[Lone Ranger]

I too love this movie and have always assumed it was the Marshal's ghost.


That's what I've been leaning towards, but I can't help but think there would be some sort of 'mystical' element giving us a clue that he wasn't really of this material world (like, he wouldn't have screwed the only two women under 80 in town).

The biblical references made me think it might be a spirit venegance - the town is named Lago (lake) and by the end it's paint red and is aflame (Lake of Fire). In a sense the town goes from being a purgatory of sort to being Hell (as the Stranger writes on the town sign). My theology is weak - but I can see stretch things out and see 3 guys (horsemen) getting out of jail to ride into town to destroy it and a 4th (the Stranger) who kills many, including the 3 earlier horsemen.

I'd guess Duncan's Brother, as that was often done in westerns - but the flashback sequences really don't make sense, as he'd only know about it through hearsay.

As I said, I initially thought it was Duncan himself, and that he was simply 'left for dead', but the fact that he had a grave screwed that up a bit. I guess it's still possible though, if the town undertaker was the only one that knew he lived and they buried an empty coffin. That's a real stretch, though - and I kept waiting for that to be revealed, and it wasn't.

[Slam_Bradley]

I to love this film and I watched it (on dvd) only a couple of weeks ago. An amazing accomplishment considering it was only Eastwood's second film as a director.

A very early script had the Stranger as Duncan's brother. There's nothing in the finished product to indicate that that is still the case, however, and I don't believe that that was Eastwood's intent. I recall Eastwood at one time describing the film as a western ghost story. If I can find a link to that, I'll certainly post it.

I am of the opinion, based on that description, and based on what happens in the film is that the Stranger is the ghost of Duncan. If you look at the opening and then at the closing, the Stranger appears out of thin air and then (and this is much clearer than the opening) disappears long before he would fade over the horizon.

It's also very clear that The Stranger knows things that happened that only someone there would know. The flash-back in the hotel room mitigates against him being a brother or just a stranger who knows about the town.

The Stranger certainly seems to be indicating to Mordichai in the final scene that he's Duncan.

The ghost theory isn't without flaws. You certainly wouldn't expect a ghost to need to sleep. But then I guess there's no real reason that he wouldn't.

One other theory that I've seen espoused is that a Spirit of Vengence possessed the Stranger as he was going through town. That would explain the sleeping (the mortal shell needing rest) and the knowledge (the spirit is imparting it). But it doesn't sit well with his telling Mordichai that Mordichai knows who he is in the final scene. And it doesn't sit very well with the rape of Callie.

I'm not sure there's a definitive answer. But I lean toward a corporeal ghost of Duncan.

[Lone Ranger]

One other theory that I've seen espoused is that a Spirit of Vengence possessed the Stranger as he was going through town. That would explain the sleeping (the mortal shell needing rest) and the knowledge (the spirit is imparting it). But it doesn't sit well with his telling Mordichai that Mordichai knows who he is in the final scene. And it doesn't sit very well with the rape of Callie.

I'm not sure there's a definitive answer. But I lean toward a corporeal ghost of Duncan.

Great post, Slam.

Re. Spirit of Vengeance

I can understand how what he said to Mordechai implies he's Duncan's ghost, but I guess how I don't see how the rape fits any of the suspects. Why would a spirit of vengeance be less likely to rape than Duncan's ghost. Perhaps there was some specific bad blood between Duncan and Callie that didn't end up in the final cut. Perhaps raping Callie was a way of getting back at the guy in town (can't remember his name) she was with at the time, or the outlaw she was with before.

I wonder if there were more flashback scenes that were cut, things that would have pieced things together.

I'm guessing that things are mean to be left ambiguous - in many ways it's more satisfying that a tidy explanation.

The only thing that leaves the 'Spirit of Vengeance' door open is the biblical imagery/references. I am sure someone better verse in the Book of Revelations that I am could spot even more.

If Lago is a type of purgatory, it seems that most are going to hell during the reckoning but one person (the innkeeper's wife) is leaving town (to heaven?) as she has the purest sould in Lago.

Honestly, when I hit 'play' on my digital recorder last night, I wasn't expecting to be still scratching my head. I just thought I see a few good gunfights are laugh at some one-liners.

[Royal]

The stranger was the Devil.

He gave them a taste of what to look forward to while collecting some overdue souls.

[hoffmandu]

So we're Talking about Ghost Rider here..............Clint Eastwood is Ghost Rider. How badass is that? I say, Totally.

[Slam_Bradley]

Great post, Slam.

Re. Spirit of Vengeance

I can understand how what he said to Mordechai implies he's Duncan's ghost, but I guess how I don't see how the rape fits any of the suspects. Why would a spirit of vengeance be less likely to rape than Duncan's ghost. Perhaps there was some specific bad blood between Duncan and Callie that didn't end up in the final cut. Perhaps raping Callie was a way of getting back at the guy in town (can't remember his name) she was with at the time, or the outlaw she was with before.

I wonder if there were more flashback scenes that were cut, things that would have pieced things together.

I'm guessing that things are mean to be left ambiguous - in many ways it's more satisfying that a tidy explanation.

The only thing that leaves the 'Spirit of Vengeance' door open is the biblical imagery/references. I am sure someone better verse in the Book of Revelations that I am could spot even more.

If Lago is a type of purgatory, it seems that most are going to hell during the reckoning but one person (the innkeeper's wife) is leaving town (to heaven?) as she has the purest sould in Lago.

Honestly, when I hit 'play' on my digital recorder last night, I wasn't expecting to be still scratching my head. I just thought I see a few good gunfights are laugh at some one-liners.


I guess to some extent it depends on who's vengence it is. I have a hard time with, for example, The Wrath of God, raping Callie. Death and retribution, sure. Rape... not so much.

The quote from Eastwood (and I still haven't found the exact quote) was from an interview on Inside the Actor's Studio. Essentially it was that he wanted a less explicit and more supernatural resolution. So it clearly wasn't Eastwood's intent that The Stranger be Duncan's brother or any mortal man.

My issue with the idea of Lago as purgatory is that we don't see the only pure soul leave the town. Mordechai at no time feels the wrath of the Stranger and it is implied that, if he didn't help Duncan, he would have had he been able. We do see the inkeeper's wife (Verna Bloom I'm blanking on the characters name) leave town. She is redeemed. And that would certainly play in that theory. But what about Mordechai?

I also remembered that The Stranger rode a grey horse. "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him." That would tend toward his being some sort of supernatural creature. I'm just not sure what.

[Slam_Bradley]

Oh...and as a suggestion, Scott. Take a look at Pale Rider as a sequel to High Plains Drifter. There are a lot of similar themes (with the addition of themes from Shane). It's interesting to watch the two close together.

[jesse_custer]

Let me ask all of you something: how well does this film stack up against Eastwood's best westerns, like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, The Outlaw Josey Wales, and For a Few Dollars More? I've been wanting to watch this for some time but wasn't sure if I would enjoy it that much.

[Lone Ranger]

I guess to some extent it depends on who's vengence it is. I have a hard time with, for example, The Wrath of God, raping Callie. Death and retribution, sure. Rape... not so much.

I guess I just don't see how the rape fits in at all, regardless of whether it's a spirit of vengeance or Duncan's Ghost - I can't see the motivation there. It sure as hell doesn't make sense that Duncan's brother would rape Callie. Perhaps it is Duncan's Ghost and he needs to take care of some physical desires while temporarily back on Earth (gets a drink, smokes a cigar etc...)

So it clearly wasn't Eastwood's intent that The Stranger be Duncan's brother or any mortal man.
I wonder at which stage he moved away from that initial script.

My issue with the idea of Lago as purgatory is that we don't see the only pure soul leave the town. Mordechai at no time feels the wrath of the Stranger and it is implied that, if he didn't help Duncan, he would have had he been able. We do see the inkeeper's wife (Verna Bloom I'm blanking on the characters name) leave town. She is redeemed. And that would certainly play in that theory. But what about Mordechai?

See, I don't see Mordechai as the pure soul (he got pretty corrupt when appointed Sheriff and Mayor) - to me, he is more of a Caliban type figure, scorned by all but also very opportunistic. His flashback shows that he was upset by the whipping, but just cowardly as everyone else. To me, the Virginia Bloom character is the only one worthy of redemption, as she did make a move to stop the whipping but was stopped by her husband.

I also remembered that The Stranger rode a grey horse. "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him." That would tend toward his being some sort of supernatural creature. I'm just not sure what.

I'm now tempting to watch it again to look for other clues - perhaps the Stranger was referred to as 'a devil' in one of those town meetings or something. It would have been interesting had a few characters developed a cough, as a nod towards pestilence.

The stranger was the Devil.
He gave them a taste of what to look forward to while collecting some overdue souls.

So, there was some thought put into who lived an who died? As far as I know the Sheriff lived, and he seemed to be a good candiate for death.

[Lone Ranger]

Oh...and as a suggestion, Scott. Take a look at Pale Rider as a sequel to High Plains Drifter. There are a lot of similar themes (with the addition of themes from Shane). It's interesting to watch the two close together.

I saw Pale Rider ages ago, and parts of this reminded me of it. I do want to check it out again - I'm sure Kat's up for it, as we both agreed that HPD was excellent.

[Haydn C]

I guess to some extent it depends on who's vengence it is. I have a hard time with, for example, The Wrath of God, raping Callie. Death and retribution, sure. Rape... not so much.

The quote from Eastwood (and I still haven't found the exact quote) was from an interview on Inside the Actor's Studio. Essentially it was that he wanted a less explicit and more supernatural resolution. So it clearly wasn't Eastwood's intent that The Stranger be Duncan's brother or any mortal man.

My issue with the idea of Lago as purgatory is that we don't see the only pure soul leave the town. Mordechai at no time feels the wrath of the Stranger and it is implied that, if he didn't help Duncan, he would have had he been able. We do see the inkeeper's wife (Verna Bloom I'm blanking on the characters name) leave town. She is redeemed. And that would certainly play in that theory. But what about Mordechai?

I also remembered that The Stranger rode a grey horse. "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him." That would tend toward his being some sort of supernatural creature. I'm just not sure what.

I saw that as well and your spot on about in the script he was supposed to be the brother but Clint changed it to an avenging ghost/spirit.

I have seen Clint explain this in some other interview as well but that escapes me as well.

[Lone Ranger]

Let me ask all of you something: how well does this film stack up against Eastwood's best westerns, like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, The Outlaw Josey Wales, and For a Few Dollars More? I've been wanting to watch this for some time but wasn't sure if I would enjoy it that much.

I may be giddy from having just watched it - but I'm not so sure it isn't the best Clint Eastwood western. While I love the Leone pictures - there is a lot more depth and moodiness to this one. I went into High Plain Drifter thinking it would just be a Leone rip-off, but there's a very different approach taken by Eastwood. I also really like Josey Wales, but it's a bit too hammy in parts for me.

Someone much more academic than me would likely say that HDP, in effect, deconstructs the western genre.

[Haydn C]

I saw Pale Rider ages ago, and parts of this reminded me of it. I do want to check it out again - I'm sure Kat's up for it, as we both agreed that HPD was excellent.

It's a great film, I think it is almost as much of a remake as a sequel, alot of the same themes explored in a different setting. The strangers origin is a lot more explicit in this as well.

I'd be interested in seeing what you think of HPD compared to Pale Rider if you watch PR agin some time soon. I've watched them both recently and think that on reflection I prefer HPD.

[Slam_Bradley]

I saw Pale Rider ages ago, and parts of this reminded me of it. I do want to check it out again - I'm sure Kat's up for it, as we both agreed that HPD was excellent.


And I now find Clint's take on HPD.

http://www.clinteastwood.net/welcome2.html

If you go to the filmography and click on HPD there is a real audio snippet of Clint discussing The Stranger.


Pale Rider isn't nearly as good a film as HPD. But it is interesting in that there are a number of ways to interpret it. You can definitely see it as a sequel to HPD. You can also look at it as The Man With No Name having aged and looking for redemption.

[Slam_Bradley]

Let me ask all of you something: how well does this film stack up against Eastwood's best westerns, like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, The Outlaw Josey Wales, and For a Few Dollars More? I've been wanting to watch this for some time but wasn't sure if I would enjoy it that much.


I think it is every bit as good as The Outlaw Josie Wales. It's interesting in that it is Clints second film as a director and he shows flashes of what he's going to become. To me it is the best synthesis of his two biggest influences Leone and Siegel. It doesn't have the epic scope of Leone's work. Clint brings in the character and the rough edge that he learned from Siegel.

I think it's by far the best film he directed prior to Unforgiven. It's a very good film...well worth your time to watch.

[Lone Ranger]

And I now find Clint's take on HPD.

http://www.clinteastwood.net/welcome2.html

If you go to the filmography and click on HPD there is a real audio snippet of Clint discussing The Stranger.


Pale Rider isn't nearly as good a film as HPD. But it is interesting in that there are a number of ways to interpret it. You can definitely see it as a sequel to HPD. You can also look at it as The Man With No Name having aged and looking for redemption.

Cool, thanks Slam. I've got to bring some headphones into the office so I can pretty I am linking to a webcast of some sort tomorrow.

[Haydn C]

I think it is every bit as good as The Outlaw Josie Wales. It's interesting in that it is Clints second film as a director and he shows flashes of what he's going to become. To me it is the best synthesis of his two biggest influences Leone and Siegel. It doesn't have the epic scope of Leone's work. Clint brings in the character and the rough edge that he learned from Siegel.

I think it's by far the best film he directed prior to Unforgiven. It's a very good film...well worth your time to watch.

Just out of interest which do you prefer, A Fist Full of Dollars or For A Few Dollars More?

[Slam_Bradley]

Just out of interest which do you prefer, A Fist Full of Dollars or For A Few Dollars More?

It has been a long, long time since I've watched either of them. I want to like Fistful of Dollars more, because I love Yojimbo and I REALLY love Red Harvest (the Hammett novel they're both based on), but For a Few Dollars More is just a better film. Leone had upped his game. The interplay between Eastwood and Van Cleef is great. It was a step up, and The Good, The Bad & The Ugly was another step beyond it.

The more interesting question is...where should Duck, You Suckers/Fistful of Dynamite (Giu la testa) stand in the pantheon of Leone's movies. It is criminally underrated.

[Haydn C]

It has been a long, long time since I've watched either of them. I want to like Fistful of Dollars more, because I love Yojimbo and I REALLY love Red Harvest (the Hammett novel they're both based on), but For a Few Dollars More is just a better film. Leone had upped his game. The interplay between Eastwood and Van Cleef is great. It was a step up, and The Good, The Bad & The Ugly was another step beyond it.

The more interesting question is...where should Duck, You Suckers/Fistful of Dynamite (Giu la testa) stand in the pantheon of Leone's movies. It is criminally underrated.

I don't think I've seen that in about fifteen years, I may have to look it out. That's with Rod Steiger isn't it? I have a soft spot for Hang em High as well.

[Slam_Bradley]

I don't think I've seen that in about fifteen years, I may have to look it out. That's with Rod Steiger isn't it? I have a soft spot for Hang em High as well.


Rod Steiger and James Coburn. A new two-disc edition was just released in June. I haven't had a chance to take a new look at it.

[Royal]

So, there was some thought put into who lived an who died? As far as I know the Sheriff lived, and he seemed to be a good candiate for death.

Oh, everyone in that town is going to hell except for Mort and Bloom. They all let the sheriff get killed to hide a claim remember.

And all those nice thing he did (help the Indians, made Mort Sheriff and mayor, get the carpenters some wood, etc.) was done to spite the public, not in cherity.

So he came to collect what was his while tormenting those who he'll see real soon.

[Lone Ranger]

Oh, everyone in that town is going to hell except for Mort and Bloom. They all let the sheriff get killed to hide a claim remember.

And all those nice thing he did (help the Indians, made Mort Sheriff and mayor, get the carpenters some wood, etc.) was done to spite the public, not in cherity.

So he came to collect what was his while tormenting those who he'll see real soon.

I meant - which ones were dying that day and which would simply go to hell eventually. Was he deliberate in which of the townspeople were killed?

[jesse_custer]

Dammit, this movie sounds interesting. I guess I'm going to have to buy it now ...

[Royal]

I meant - which ones were dying that day and which would simply go to hell eventually. Was he deliberate in which of the townspeople were killed?

I think the deaths were inevitable. He just set up the situation to be absolute.

[Lone Ranger]

I've given some thought about the reason behind Callie's rape and I've decided that the Stranger was giving the town one more chance.

He basically dragged her from the street in broad daylight. I think he was giving the townsfolk the opportunity to redeem themselves by coming to save her. Needless to say, they didn't.

Mordechai actually watched - which pretty much eliminates him from the 'pure soul' category.

[Dennis K]

Wouldn't the fact that he disappears at the end of the movie indicate that he was a ghost?

[Lone Ranger]

Wouldn't the fact that he disappears at the end of the movie indicate that he was a ghost?

It certainly might, but Duncan's ghost or spirit of vengeance?

[Matt Algren]

Hmmm, I've never seen this. I'll have to add it to the list (http://betterlate.wordpress.com/catch-up-list/).

[Slam_Bradley]

I've given some thought about the reason behind Callie's rape and I've decided that the Stranger was giving the town one more chance.

He basically dragged her from the street in broad daylight. I think he was giving the townsfolk the opportunity to redeem themselves by coming to save her. Needless to say, they didn't.

Mordechai actually watched - which pretty much eliminates him from the 'pure soul' category.


Missed this this morning, some how.

I'd forgotten about Mordechai's voyeurism. I hadn't quite considered it from that point (final opportunity for remdemption) but it's an interesting thought.
Morgan was certainly willing to put up with the rape as long as he thought his interests were being served.

[Jared]

I just watched this last night on TV, and it was great.

I think the Drifter was The Devil. It fits that while he was nice to Mordichai, he was really corrupting him, taking advantage of how he'd been picked on. Deep down, Moridchai does know his name, after all. When told how everyone is afraid of him, he says something like "it's what they know about themselves that makes 'em afraid". Plus he rapes two women and makes them like it, that seems to me the kind of thing the Devil could/would do.

However a good case could be made for Duncan's ghost too. Why would the Devil care that they make Duncan a grave marker? And why would he react suddenly when he first hears a whip crack when he enters the town?

[mgs]

it's a great film, but the only things that 'take me out' of the movie are the over-the-top sound effects and music when implying the supernatural aspects of the movie.

if those were toned down, I would have bought this dvd and considered it one of the best Eastwood westerns, instead of just a good one.