Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind & Steven Spielberg

[literally exaggerated]

I just rewatched this movie for the first time since I saw it when it came out, and I just had to start a thread to appreciate what is IMO the best science fiction film of the past 5 years (and yes, it is absolutely science fiction. it centers around a fictional bit of science, and the entire plot derives from that science, exploring its impact, applications and implications. the fact that it is also, you know, a good movie that doesn't center around blowing shit up with laser swords doesn't somehow change what it is).

Just a beautifully shot, wonderfully executed film. Inarguably Ghondry's best, almost certainly Kauffman and Carrey's best. There are some scenes (the bed on the charles, the fading pages in the bookstore, the crumbling beach house) which are burned into my memory so thoroughly probably even Lacuna Inc. couldn't get them out.

The love story is also remarkable. That rare movie that is a genuine love story, not just a story about people experiencing love. An exploration of love, what it means to us and what it costs and what its worth. The ending, the realization that they are "doomed" to love and lose forever, would be tragic in a more conventional tale, but here its happy, joyful. Loss is as vital as love, and to march forth boldly into romance knowing full well its transient and painful nature, with no Hollywood illusions of happily ever after, and accept it and enjoy it in the moment- that's beauty, that's happiness.

It is very, very rare that a movie makes me think and feel simultaneously (and isn't the hazy distinction between the two the entire point of the film?), but this one pulled it off. So, call this a respect or appreciation thread or whatever, to one seriously kickass movie.

[jesse_custer]

I guess in the end it could be labeled science fiction. But it seemed more like a drama/comedy more than anything.

Regardless, it's a fantastic movie with superb acting from just about everyone: Carrey, Winslet, Wilkinson, Ruffalo, even Dunst. And what else can you say about Charlie Kaufman, probably the best modern screenwriter with this, Adaptation (which I thought was even better than Eternal Sunshine), and Being John Malkovich under his belt.

The only thing I would really disagree with you is the part about the best sci-fi movie of the last five years. I think Minority Report deserves that title. But that's just nitpicking.

[literally exaggerated]

I guess in the end it could be labeled science fiction. But it seemed more like a drama/comedy more than anything.

The two are not mutually exclusive categories. That's like saying "Gattaca was more of a murder mystery than anything, so even though the entire plot derives from fictional science I wouldn't classify it as science fiction".

In fact I'd argue that Eternal Sunshine was much more clasically scifi than, say, Star Wars, which was basically a fantasy story with spaceships and other planets. In Eternal Sunshine the plot served as an exploration of hypothetical science and what it would mean to us, how it would work, whether its impact would be positive or negative. That in doing so it also effectively explored the human condition and the nature of love and memory just means that it succeeded in doing what the great masters of scifi all the way back to Asimov have argued the genre should do, namely highlight real elements of the world using unorthodox tools.

[jesse_custer]

I see your point. But to use the Gattaca example, Eternal Sunshine seems more like a classic drama/comedy than Gattaca does a classic suspense/mystery.

[literally exaggerated]

Perhaps, but its an issue of tone, not of type. If you take the fictional science out of Eternal Sunshine, you do not have Eternal Sunshine. You might have another movie about a well-concieved, believable relationship that starts happy and ends badly, but it would not be anything at all like Eternal Sunshine. You'd have to rewrite the plot from the ground up, and it probably wouldn't be very good either.

[jesse_custer]

That's pretty much the same reasoning you have to use to justify A Clockwork Orange being sci-fi (which I do). If it didn't have the brainwashing and conditioning, it wouldn't be the same movie.

Conversely, that's why I don't consider Brazil that sci-fi. It has that one part at the end, but take it away and you still have a pretty bleak ending.

What did you think of Minority Report?

[king mob]

Minority Report was a bubblegum film pretending to be mature though. It wasn't a bad film, just trying to be more than it actually was.

Ghondy's film is genuinely mature and deals with relationships in a real way using a sf (well, it rips off Philip K Dick) framework. It's a wonderful little film in that way, plus not to mention it's fairly unique which is becoming unheard of in a year that sees people running to see a bloody Transformers film.

[literally exaggerated]

I loved Minority Report. It didn't leave me with the same sense of emotional weight, the same sort of melancholy happiness and awe that Eternal Sunshine evoked, but it was a *damn* good time at the movies and sparked a long, fun debate with my girlfriend afterwards, which is always a good sign.

And I agree about a Clockwork Orange and Brasil. The mere inclusion of the currently impossible does not a scifi or fantasy make, but if the plot hinges on a piece of science that does not currently exist, it is, by definition, science fiction.

[jesse_custer]

Minority wasn't a bubble-gum flick. It didn't connect with mainstream audiences because it was actually a mature film.

It's like calling Jaws a bubble-gum flick and then remarking about its outstanding character development, only to write it off as being something it's not.

[king mob]

Minority wasn't a bubble-gum flick. It didn't connect with mainstream audiences because it was actually a mature film.

It's like calling Jaws a bubble-gum flick and then remarking about its outstanding character development, only to write it off as being something it's not.

Jaws was a bubble-gum film; an exceptionally good one nut still a mass audience bubble-gum film. Minority Report is the same, it's a decent film but nowhere near the quality of Jaws.

[jesse_custer]

Jaws is not bubble-gummish. First, yes, it pleased a mass audience, but the enjoyment of a mass audience doesn't mean a film is bubble gum. On the other hand, it is true that a mass audience will be more likely to buy into a bubble-gum film. I repeat, though, that a pleased mass audience doesn't mean a movie is bubble gum; otherwise, Casablanca is bubble gum, and it's not. It's a movie anchored by a brilliant and groundbreaking screenplay.

Second, why wouldn't I call Jaws bubble gum? For a few reasons. But let me state that I know it started the blockbuster trend. However, if only every "blockbuster" had as much substance as Jaws, then we would be in much better shape. Anyway, reasons why Jaws ain't bubble gum:

1. The shark doesn't appear for much of the movie - Although this may have occurred because of budget restraints or the "shark machine" acting up, it unintentionally made the movie more clever and original. Spielberg had to come up with ways to make the movie work without the entire shark, and it worked beautifully. Great inventive filmmaking.

2. The amount of character development is outstanding - A bubble gum movie has characters, and sometimes it will develop them. However, Jaws takes itself to almost the level of a drama. The three main characters have more depth than most dramas, certainly.

3. That story Robert Shaw told - This creepy shark story reinforces the brilliance of not being able to see that which is causing death. It's awesome because we just hear the story from Shaw's lips, and it's still unnerving, yet we never see it happening. Ironically enough, it might be the most disturbing part of the film even though it doesn't rely on visuals.

Those are the three main reasons, but there's certainly more we can discuss. I'll go into Minority Report as well if you'd like.

[literally exaggerated]

Spielberg has always been as good as anyone at finding the emotional core amidst all the action and techno-wizardry. Its what made Jurassic Park so fantastic.

Still, Eternal Sunshine differs from the Spielberg scifi films in priorities, if nothing else. Spielberg's films exist first and foremost to entertain, secondly to make you think, and finally to make you feel (talking strictly the scifi ones here). Eternal Sunshine exists first and foremost to make you feel, secondly to make you think, and lastly to entertain. not to say it wasn't entertaining, or that Spielberg doesn't build characters, just that the focus is quite different.

[jesse_custer]

Yes, I agree with your analysis. Then you have films like Blade Runner where it's think first, feel second, and then be entertained after you sort it all out.

[Thorlief]

I agree, very underrated and unappreciated great movie

BTW the biggest scifi movie of the past TEN years is Chidren of men

[JoeK32880]

I love this movie, but I hate when people insist it be called a science fiction movie.

Every one who does it just comes off sounding like a pretentious jerk.

[The Xenos]

Wow. This turned into quite an interesting debate on sci fi as a genre as well the bubble gum or popcorn qualities of films.

Personally, I think Speilberg's older films were less popcorn. It's just due to his popularity, they because mainstream and accepted. I have mixed feelings about Minority Report. Not much of a fan now.

I wouldn't call Jaws bubblegum or popcorn, though maybe I'm just too young to know how it was released. I still think it's more of a good horror and drama than just popcorn.

The comment about Jurrasic Park is very interesting. Yes, it was popcorn, but then it also hit you with the sci fi. Some nitpicks, but the overall sci fi was good.

Looking back, this makes me wish even Minority Report Spielberg had done Transformers instead of Bay.

Okay! Back to Eternal Sunshine. It works as a sci fi movie. It works as a romance. It works as a comedy. (It works as both a floor wax and a dessert topping! ) It's a genre bending masterpiece.

Personally, I like it best as a romance as I had somewhat recently gone through a break up and it totally delivered a cathartic cinematic experience I needed. (I was also wondering about Garden State, but that did nothing for me.) I'm kinda glad I went to see it by myself in a small art house theater. (Funny enough, it was nearby the Charles and I might have walked over the river on the way over or back.) A couple of points in the film just got me and made the waterworks flow. I swear a couple of scenes, it wasn't Kate Winslet up there, it was my ex.

Yet still, it was a brilliant sci fi film. As a biologist with an interest in neuroscience, among many bio fields, it was very interesting. It resided in that fuzzy gray area. Sure it's not quite science, but it's not too far fetched. Plus Tom Wilkinson, what an amazing actor. Plus another role that made me totally despise Elijah Wood, who seems like such a nice guy in real life.

Also, the title of the movie is from a Pope poem about Abolard and Eloise. I remember hearing about that tragic romance in a 'relationships' class back in high school.

I love this damn movie so much on so many levels.

[jesse_custer]

Personally, I think Speilberg's older films were less popcorn.

Of course, it would be tough to label Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, or Munich as popcorn. But then again he's also directed stuff like Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, and War of the Worlds lately. At this point he has multiple personality disorder as a director.

[literally exaggerated]

Plus another role that made me totally despise Elijah Wood, who seems like such a nice guy in real life.

Elijah Wood either plays quiet, unassuming, really nice, sweet guys, or he plays quiet, unassuming, totally creepy guys.

I love the poetry in the movie, and the fact that Kirsten Dunst calls him "Pope Alexander"

[Patient Boy]

Spielberg made his name making 'popcorn' movies, decided to make 'serious' films in the middle of his career and then veered back towards making crowd pleasing 'popcorn' movies.

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is one of my favourite films, and while I don't generally consider it a sci fi film per se it definitely contains elements of science fiction. I love for a lot of reasons, but I especially like how much mileage Michel Gondry gets out of minimal yet effective special effects.

I'm really looking forward to the new movie Gondry is doing with Jack Black and Mos Def called Be Kind Rewind.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2007/06/27/photo-jack-black-is-driving-miss-daisy-in-michel-gondrys-be-kind-rewind/

[frankiedetroit]

Elijah Wood either plays quiet, unassuming, really nice, sweet guys, or he plays quiet, unassuming, totally creepy guys.

I love the poetry in the movie, and the fact that Kirsten Dunst calls him "Pope Alexander"

I also recently saw this after not seeing it since it was in theaters, and I agree with you, LE. It's a wonderful story and extremely interesting premise that was even better the second time around. At the end you just KNOW (or at least this was my feeling) that Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet aren't going to make it this time either, and that added to the beauty.

But what I really loved about it was...who among us, especially in the throes of heartbreak, hasn't wished we could forget a specific person? I know I have. And if the technology had been availed to me, I would have taken it. Can you imagine, though, how much life we would miss out on if this was possible? We'd never grow stronger. And we might be stuck like the guy in the Kurt Busiek Astro City story, who was haunted by memories of a wife who never existed (due to a CRISIS type event, for those who haven't read it).

[Kurt Busiek]

I also recently saw this after not seeing it since it was in theaters, and I agree with you, LE. It's a wonderful story and extremely interesting premise that was even better the second time around. At the end you just KNOW (or at least this was my feeling) that Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet aren't going to make it this time either, and that added to the beauty.

But what I really loved about it was...who among us, especially in the throes of heartbreak, hasn't wished we could forget a specific person? I know I have. And if the technology had been availed to me, I would have taken it. Can you imagine, though, how much life we would miss out on if this was possible? We'd never grow stronger. And we might be stuck like the guy in the Kurt Busiek Astro City story, who was haunted by memories of a wife who never existed (due to a CRISIS type event, for those who haven't read it).

The "Eternal Sunshine" people arranged permission to have Jim Carrey wear an ASTRO CITY T-shirt in the movie -- the black one with the atom-rocket symbol.

I never saw the movie, so I don't know if it actually appeared, though.

kdb

[The Xenos]

Of course, it would be tough to label Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, or Munich as popcorn. But then again he's also directed stuff like Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, and War of the Worlds lately. At this point he has multiple personality disorder as a director.

Oh yeah. He's kinda bipolar like that. Sometimes he's in a popcorn mood, sometimes he's in a amazingly good cinema mood.

[Black Atom]

Of course, it would be tough to label Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, or Munich as popcorn. But then again he's also directed stuff like Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, and War of the Worlds lately. At this point he has multiple personality disorder as a director.

He's always been that way. He did Temple of Doom one year, and The Color Purple the next. He then followed up Hook and Jurassic Park with Schindler's List.

[Paul McEnery]

Minority Report was a bubblegum film pretending to be mature though. It wasn't a bad film, just trying to be more than it actually was.

Not so much a bubblegum film as a "being held down by your brother while he puts chewing gum all through your hair, with spittle all over it, too" film.

Worst film ever made.

[Tages]

Not so much a bubblegum film as a "being held down by your brother while he puts chewing gum all through your hair, with spittle all over it, too" film.

Worst film ever made.

Hey, the chase sequence in the mall was cool.

[The Xenos]

Hey, the chase sequence in the mall was cool.

Yeah. He ran into all that product placement and for some reason I had to run out and buy some Reebok shoes after seeing the movie.

[Dr. Banner]

Yeah. He ran into all that product placement and for some reason I had to run out and buy some Reebok shoes after seeing the movie.

Walked around outside lately? The mall parking lots in my area have speakers with commercials and crap playing all the time now.
Tell me that Minority Report scene isn't how it's going to be eventually.

[Nomad]

Ghondy's film is genuinely mature and deals with relationships in a real way using a sf (well, it rips off Philip K Dick) framework.
My thoughts exactly. ESotSM reminds me of a Phil Dick type of plot more than Minority Report blown up into a full length movie. Or Paycheck. Or Bladerunner. At least Bladerunner had Ford instead of Cruise...
While we're comparing this film to PKD, I have to say much like some of his darker books, this movie fills me with a deep sadness that stays with me for weeks. It's a beautiful film.

[niall mc cann]

The "Eternal Sunshine" people arranged permission to have Jim Carrey wear an ASTRO CITY T-shirt in the movie -- the black one with the atom-rocket symbol.

I never saw the movie, so I don't know if it actually appeared, though.

kdb

I don't recall noticing it, but it could have slipped by me. I'll have to give it a rewatch for that alone, though rewatching ES is never a chore.

I loved it from the first time i saw it, though i have to say... i seem to have a completely different reaction to the ending than most people i've talked to about it... i thought it was the most heart-warming, moving, and emotionally honest endings to any film i'd ever seen.

I didn't feel sorry for them, or anxious about them repeating past mistakes; i just wanted to reach into the screen and hug them both. I just felt sure that when things went wrong again, they'd be stronger people, then, and better able to deal with it. I just came skipping out of the cinema that night, beaming at strangers. I was never as sure in my life as i was that night, that all those things that weren't killing me actually were making me stronger.:o

[The Xenos]

Walked around outside lately? The mall parking lots in my area have speakers with commercials and crap playing all the time now.
Tell me that Minority Report scene isn't how it's going to be eventually.

I know. It was product placement, but also true sci fi as it showed where technology was going. When I looked it up, I found this interesting tidbit:

With the help of contemporary advertisers like Lexus, Reebok, Nokia, Guinness, Bulgari, and Pepsi-Cola's Aquafina, Spielberg and his team paint a fascinating picture of what advertising might look like in the future -- complete with interactivity and personalization. The vision grew out of a "think tank" of MIT futurists that Spielberg asked to imagine what the world would be like in 2054. From that team's work, and from the mind of production designer Alex McDowell, grew a panoply of ads that appear throughout the film.

http://www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=1369861

[stealthwise]

Not so much a bubblegum film as a "being held down by your brother while he puts chewing gum all through your hair, with spittle all over it, too" film.

Worst film ever made.

Good god, are you serious? That movie is nearly flawless.

Eternal Sunshine though, IS flawless... :)

[literally exaggerated]

Yeah, I've never understood the gripe with product placement. Huge corporations try their damndest to make sure that our daily lives are filled with product placement, and for the most part they completely succeed. The life of the average american is totally dominated by branding.

To ignore this in movies seems a curious sort of agenda-driven willful defiance of reality. Like, we're gonna be totally realistic in every way, except when it comes to companies and products because that would be selling out or some bullshit.