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View Full Version : Who knew Bruce was Batman, Pre-Crisis? (Rough Draft)


Lorendiac
07-08-2007, 06:24 PM
Several months ago I posted a list of people who know, or used to know, Batman’s secret identity at some point in the last two decades or so; meaning the “modern” DCU continuity of the Post-Crisis era. Then I solicited feedback from my fellow fans and soon posted a second, much expanded, version.

Lately I’ve been thinking it’s about time to go back to that and update it again. But I decided it’s time to make the entire thing more “comprehensive” – to include a separate list of those who knew Bruce’s secret in the Silver and Bronze Ages, when his stories were set on Earth-1 in the Pre-Crisis Multiverse. (Some of the people who learned the secret in those days seem to have had the information scrubbed from their heads in later retcons.)

For my purposes, I’m counting the “Pre-Crisis, Earth-1” era of Batman continuity as beginning in 1956 (the year that Barry Allen, the Silver Age Flash of Earth-1, debuted) and ending in 1986, in “Batman #400,” the final issue of Doug Moench’s mid-80s run as a Batman writer.

So what I want right now is your help in tracking down any character who knew “Batman = Bruce Wayne” in any story published in that thirty-year range – except that of course we should still ignore any Batman story that specifically warned the reader it featured the Golden Age Batman who lived and died on Earth-2. (Although: who knows? Someday I may get around to compiling a separate list for him! But not just now.)


A few ground rules, subject to change at any time:

1. In cases where someone has used multiple aliases over the years, Pre- and Post-Crisis, I’m generally listing them here under whatever alias they were using regularly in the early-to-mid 80s, just before the transition to Post-Crisis continuity. For instance, Donna Troy is listed under “Wonder Girl I” and Garfield Logan is listed under “Changeling.”

2. If the person didn’t habitually use a costumed alias, I insert that person into the list in alphabetical order by first name. (Example: “Alfred Pennyworth” is listed under “A for Alfred” instead of “P for Pennyworth,” because I think most fans don’t think of him as “Pennyworth, Alfred” the way he would be listed in a phone book)

3. To make life a little easier on myself, I am – for the moment – ignoring all the characters from the Pre-Crisis Earth-2 who knew for a fact that their world’s Batman was Bruce Wayne (the Golden Age version), and therefore knew or could very easily have figured out, if they cared, that the Earth-1 Batman was also “Bruce Wayne.”

4. The only inhabitant of Earth-Prime that I’m bothering to list as a character who knew Batman’s secret identity is Superboy-Prime. I don’t see how he could possibly fail to know. But I’m leaving out lots of other Earth-Prime characters who visited Earth-1 at some point (including Julius Schwartz, Cary Bates, Marv Wolfman, George Perez, etc.).


THE MASTER LIST OF PEOPLE WHO KNEW, PRE-CRISIS

Alfred Pennyworth (Pre-COIE, Alfred never even met Bruce until after Bruce was already Batman and Dick Grayson was already Robin. When Alfred first moved into the Manor to be the new butler, he didn’t know what he was really getting into—but he found out)

The Atom II (Ray Palmer. All the regulars of the JLA’s Satellite Era apparently knew each other’s identities in the Pre-Crisis era)

Batgirl I (Barbara Gordon. In the Pre-Crisis days, she was never known as “Oracle.” She apparently learned who Dick and Bruce were, had the knowledge mindwiped away, and figured it out all over again later – or possibly the old mindwipe was retconned away very quietly; it’s unclear. I once wrote about this sequence of events in excruciating detail at Barbara Gordon: A Bad Mindwipe and a Later Retcon (http://www.geocities.com/lwhomer.geo/LorendiacSuperheroWritings/BarbaraMindwipe.html))

Black Canary II (Dinah Lance, who – until a JLA/JSA crossover in 1983 retconned her origins – was supposed to be her own mother. It’s a long story, okay?)

Black Lightning (Jefferson Pierce. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13.” Along with four other founding members of the Outsiders: Geo-Force, Halo, Katana, and Metamorpho, all listed below)

Catwoman I (Selina Kyle. Her knowledge was established in “Batman #355” when, for the first time in Earth-1 continuity, she clearly addressed Batman as “Bruce.” Apparently we never found out just when and how she had previously learned.)

Changeling (Garfield Logan. The way Marv Wolfman wrote “The New Teen Titans” in the early-to-mid 80s, it appeared that everyone who was a bona fide member of the team ended up knowing that Robin I (later Nightwing) was Dick Grayson, and that he was the ward and protégé of Bruce Wayne, aka Batman. Thus you will also see listings here for Cyborg, Kid Flash I (Wally), Raven, Starfire II (Koriand’r), Terra I, and Wonder Girl I (Donna). Post-Zero Hour, Denny O’Neil frantically tried to retcon all this six ways from Sunday, but that has nothing to do with how things stood in the early-to-mid 80s in the Pre-Crisis continuity.)

The Crime Doctor (Bradford Thorne. Dead. Learned in his first appearance, in “Detective Comics #494.” One issue later, he went into a coma from mercury poisoning. He had no further appearances in the Pre-Crisis continuity, but in theory, the threat of his a) recovering, and b) still remembering, was constantly hanging over Batman’s head)

Cyborg (Victor Stone)

Dala (Female vampire who learned the secret, in the Earth-1 continuity, in a story arc in 1982. She and her brother “The Monk” had no further appearances in Pre-Crisis continuity.)

Deathstroke the Terminator (Slade Wilson. This one is a bit iffy, but here’s what I think I know: In the Pre-Crisis era, Dick Grayson’s teammates in the Titans all knew he was the first Robin (later Nightwing). For awhile, newcomer Terra I (Tara Markov) was the exception to the rule, but eventually he decided she’d proved she was trustworthy. All the other Titans also seemed to know that Dick Grayson’s mentor was Bruce Wayne, aka Batman, with the Batcave being located beneath stately Wayne Manor. Terra was a spy and definitely shared Dick’s secret identity with Deathstroke the Terminator. I don’t remember Deathstroke, in any “Pre-Crisis” story, ever explicitly saying “I know Bruce Wayne is Batman,” but the assumption Marv Wolfman seemed to be going on in that era was: “ANYBODY who knows Dick Grayson is Robin I/Nightwing also knows Bruce Wayne is Batman,” which makes a lot more sense than Denny O’Neil’s mid-90s retcons to the contrary!)

Douglas Dundee, M.D. (In Pre-Crisis continuity, he was the old doctor who had known Bruce all his life and was well aware of his secret identity. He could be trusted to treat Batman’s occasional bullet wounds and so forth without reporting them to the police)

The Elongated Man (Ralph Dibny)

Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond merged with Martin Stein)

Geo-Force (Brion Markov. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)

Green Arrow I (Oliver Queen)

Green Lantern #whatever (Hal Jordan)

Halo (Violet Hunter. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)

Harbinger (Lyla, the former assistant to the Monitor. Had access to information about everyone interesting)

Hawkman (Katar Hol of Thanagar, aka Carter Hall)

Hawkgirl (Shiera Hol of Thanagar, aka Shiera Hall)

Hugo Strange (Found out in the Steve Englehart run in the 70s that is collected in the “Batman: Strange Apparitions” TPB)

Jason Todd (Robin II. A very different character from the Post-Crisis Jason who was killed in “A Death in the Family” and more recently came back during Judd Winick’s run on the “Batman” title. This version of Jason independently discovered the secret passage behind a grandfather clock, and thus the Batcave and the spare costumes and so forth, in “Detective Comics #526.” By sheer coincidence, his parents (circus aerialists) were getting killed by Killer Croc right about then, so Jason ended up moving into Wayne Manor as Bruce’s new ward and protégé.)

Jimmy Olsen (For some reason, Silver Age Superman didn’t think it proper to trust Jimmy with his own secret identity, but felt it was perfectly all right to trust him with Batman’s secret identity. No, I don’t understand the logic either – but I haven’t actually read the story in question; I just heard about it online!)

Joe Chill (Batman revealed his true identity to Joe Chill to scare him. A few minutes later, Chill got himself killed by some fellow thugs who shot him full of holes when he confessed that he had just learned he had essentially “created” Batman, the guy who had made so much trouble for all of them over the last few years. A little bit too late, the thugs realized they should have extracted the name from Chill before killing him in anger. Oops! Still, for about five or ten minutes, Joe Chill knew the secret)

Katana (Tatsu Yamashiro. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)

Martian Manhunter (J’onn J’onnz)

Metamorpho (Rex Mason. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)

The Monk (Vampire villain who learned the secrets of Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson during a story arc in 1982. Then he and his sister Dala were taken into custody by a mysterious priest, and the Earth-1, Pre-Crisis versions of those characters have never been heard from since!)

Lorendiac
07-08-2007, 06:27 PM
Nightwing I (Dick Grayson, formerly Robin I)

Nocturna (Doug Moench’s scripts in the mid-80s sometimes called her “Natasha Knight” and sometimes called her “Natalia Knight” – apparently he lost track of what her first name was, even though he’d created her himself? But she definitely knew for awhile before the transition to Post-Crisis continuity)

The Phantom Stranger (He seems virtually omniscient. In “Detective Comics #500” he gave the Earth-1 Batman and Robin a chance to visit a previously unknown parallel world where Thomas and Martha Wayne were almost due to be murdered by a crook in front of the horrified eyes of their little boy, Bruce, unless somebody intervened to prevent this tragedy – obviously he knew this opportunity would have special meaning for Batman)

Ra's al Ghul (Already knew the secret, from behind-the-scenes detective work, when he made his debut in “Batman #232.” He’d made up a hypothetical shopping list of every special piece of equipment Batman might need in order to operate as independently as he did, and then he had people do research to find out who in the Gotham City area had bought most or all of the things on that possible list, and the name “Bruce Wayne” kept popping up, in one category after another. At least some of Ra’s Ubus and other hirelings have also known)

Raven (In the early 1980s, Dick Grayson was not uptight about letting his fellow Titans know that his mentor was Batman, aka Bruce Wayne. Besides, Raven had already used her mystic powers to find out Dick’s own secret ID before he ever met her face-to-face . . . it’s a pretty safe guess that she could have done the same thing to learn Batman’s secrets, if she cared to take the trouble)

Red Tornado II (John Smith. Satellite Era JLA)

The Shadow (Sometimes known by such names as “Kent Allard” and “Lamont Cranston.” His knowledge was established in “Batman #259.”)

Silver St. Cloud (Learned during the Steve Englehart/Marshall Rogers run on “Detective Comics” that is reprinted in the TPB “Batman: Strange Apparitions.” Nobody told her; she had just gotten so well-acquainted with Bruce when they were dating that the next time she saw “Batman” in action she recognized his mouth and jaw at a glance)

Starfire II (Koriand’r of Tamaran)

Superboy-Prime (Clark Kent of Earth-Prime, which was supposed to be “our Earth.” Presumably he knew from a very early age, thanks to comic books, TV shows, etc. Just as he always knew that the Superman of Earth-1 also used the name “Clark Kent”)

Supergirl (Kara Zor-El, aka Linda Lee Danvers. As I recall: Earth-1 Superman maintained, in his Fortress of Solitude in the Arctic, a display of life-size replicas of many of his superhero buddies, each costumed figure standing alongside a replica of the matching secret identity. That included “Bruce Wayne” next to “Batman.” Since Kal-El completely trusted his cousin Kara (and she was worthy of it, too – ah, those were the good old days!), she had the full run of his Fortress and basically knew everything Superman knew about other heroes)

Superman (Clark Kent, Kal-El)

Superwoman (Second character in Silver Age/Bronze Age continuity to use that alias, to the best of my knowledge. Kristin Wells. She was a history professor in the 29th??? Century who took a strong interest in those old-time superheroes. In “DC Comics Presents Annual #2” she traveled back to the 1980s to learn the “last secret identity” of that era . . . therefore she already knew from textbooks that Bruce Wayne had been Batman, right?)

Talia (Definitely knew; probably learned from her father after he had researched the point)

Wonder Girl I (Donna Troy)

Wonder Woman (Diana of Paradise Island)

Zatanna (Zatanna Zatara. Knew from her time in the JLA’s Satellite Era)






Doubtful cases where I’d appreciate some guidance include:

Owlman of Earth-3. Did we ever learn if he was a member of the Wayne family of his native world, or was he just some random guy who happened to wear a costume similar to the Earth-1 Batman’s?

I strongly suspect The Spectre (Jim Corrigan) knew, but I’ve never been an expert on his continuity. I don’t know if any story ever made it clear that he knew.

And another question: Did the Pre-Crisis version of Kathy Kane, Batwoman, ever learn for a fact that Bruce Wayne was Batman before she died?

Bat_Fan2232
07-08-2007, 06:55 PM
bravo on this post /cheer

i never had any idea so many people knew

Lorendiac
07-08-2007, 07:06 PM
bravo on this post /cheer

i never had any idea so many people knew

That's just the people who knew in the years 1956-1986. Since then, it's gotten even worse! You might check out my old version of all the people who have learned the secret in the continuity of the last 20 years or so. I wrote it several months ago: Who Knows Batman is Bruce? (Very rough draft of a master list) (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=152362)

That thread starts with a pretty quick-and-simple list, and then has a more elaborate one that I posted as a follow-up in my own thread, beginning down in Post #37 in that thread if you care to scroll down. In that version that begins in #37, I tried (as much as possible) to list specific issues that had shown us that a character "definitely knew."

Captain Jim
07-08-2007, 07:16 PM
Loren, the problem with this is that few of these people knew his ID during this entire thirty year period. For instance, I'm certain that the other JLA members didn't know his ID during the sixties, nor did Barbara Gordon. Obviously they came to learn it at sometime or another, but whether it was before or after Crisis, I don't even remember. But I do remember that they definitely didn't know for a long period of time at the beginning.

Lorendiac
07-08-2007, 07:34 PM
Loren, the problem with this is that few of these people knew his ID during this entire thirty year period. For instance, I'm certain that the other JLA members didn't know his ID during the sixties, nor did Barbara Gordon. Obviously they came to learn it at sometime or another, but whether it was before or after Crisis, I don't even remember. But I do remember that they definitely didn't know for a long period of time at the beginning.

I understand your point, but at the moment I'm not planning anything so ambitious as a chronological timeline showing exactly who learned, in which story, in 1968; who learned in 1969; who learned in 1970; who learned in 1971; etc. As it now stands, I'm willing to accept for my list anyone who had learned the secret at any point before the big switch from Pre-Crisis to Post-Crisis continuity.

On Batman's fellow JLAers, Satellite Era, knowing: I vaguely recall someone telling me, months ago, that there was a time in the 1970s when a whole bunch of JLAers said to each other: "You know, this case would have been over a lot faster if we had all known how to contact each other's secret identities in an emergency!" -- and this realization prompted a massive reveal of secret IDs to each other (in those cases where people hadn't already known -- for instance, Supes and Bats already knew each other's secrets) but I'm not sure what issue that was in. I'll probably manage to run it down for a later draft of this "Pre-Crisis" list, though.

marshal99
07-09-2007, 01:12 AM
And another question: Did the Pre-Crisis version of Kathy Kane, Batwoman, ever learn for a fact that Bruce Wayne was Batman before she died?

I don't think Kathy Kane ever knew that Bruce Wayne was batman since he never trusted her with his civilian identity. She did however suspect that he was Bruce Wayne from time to time.
Batwoman's history
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batwoman/BatwomanHistory.htm

I understand your point, but at the moment I'm not planning anything so ambitious as a chronological timeline showing exactly who learned, in which story, in 1968; who learned in 1969; who learned in 1970; who learned in 1971; etc. As it now stands, I'm willing to accept for my list anyone who had learned the secret at any point before the big switch from Pre-Crisis to Post-Crisis continuity.

On Batman's fellow JLAers, Satellite Era, knowing: I vaguely recall someone telling me, months ago, that there was a time in the 1970s when a whole bunch of JLAers said to each other: "You know, this case would have been over a lot faster if we had all known how to contact each other's secret identities in an emergency!" -- and this realization prompted a massive reveal of secret IDs to each other (in those cases where people hadn't already known -- for instance, Supes and Bats already knew each other's secrets) but I'm not sure what issue that was in. I'll probably manage to run it down for a later draft of this "Pre-Crisis" list, though.

The first time the justice league revealed all their civilian IDs to each other was in issue 122 (if i'm not wrong).
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/45019795106.122.gif

I don't think Firestorm knew who batman was , Superman revealed himself as Clark Kent to Firestorm in a DC comics presents issue (again if i'm not wrong) but otherwise i don't think he knew everyone elses.

Pre-crisis , Deadman knew Batman was Bruce Wayne since deadman did take over his body and learn his identity. He also took over the body of batman's braindead brother , Thomas Wayne Jr

foxley
07-09-2007, 04:59 AM
Most of these come from the Encyclopedia of Comic Book Heroes by Michael Fleisher:

Frank Davis - an amateur Batman scholar who deduced Batman's identity before being murdered (Batman 108)

Silas Wayne - Bruce Wayne's great-uncle. Bruce confided his secret identity to him before the old man died (Batman 120)

Alec Wyre - criminal electronics genius who stumbled upon the location of the Batcave and so, presumably, Batman's identity. Accidentally killed himself in the Batcave (Batman 125)

Tod Allen - practical joking friend of Bruce and Dick who deduced their secret and harassed them before dying in a plane crash (Batman 134)

Harvey Harris - one of Bruce's tutors in the art of deduction before he became Batman, Harris deduced Bruce Wayne was Batman but took the knowledge to his grave. Although this was originally a golden age story, it was also part of Earth 1 continuity, being mentioned in 'The Untold Legend of the Batman' mini-series

Composite Superman - learned Batman and Superman's secret identities, but lost the knowledge when he lost his powers. Presumably he regained this knowledge when he regained his powers, especially as he could read minds (World's Finest 142)

Mrs Chilton - the mother of Joe Chill and the housekeeper of Bruce's Uncle Philip and therefore the woman who raised Bruce

Captain Jim
07-09-2007, 06:37 AM
I don't think Kathy Kane ever knew that Bruce Wayne was batman since he never trusted her with his civilian identity.

Agreed.

The first time the justice league revealed all their civilian IDs to each other was in issue 122 (if i'm not wrong).

Great, I honestly couldn't remember when it happened. So I guess this qualifies for Loren's criteria (even though I still think it's misleading to make a broad statement that the JLA members all knew Batman's ID pre-Crisis when, for over 120 issues, they *didn't* know. But, hey, it's his list. :) )

Now, could somebody verify that Batgirl did indeed know at some point pre-Crisis?

marshal99
07-09-2007, 08:41 AM
Now, could somebody verify that Batgirl did indeed know at some point pre-Crisis?

I'm pretty sure she suspect during her days as batgirl but i can't confirm that she knew for certain but i know that during her time as oracle in the suicide squad when she met batman , she chewed him out because batman never trusted her with his identity even though he knew Barbara gordon's identity as batgirl. Batman volunteer to take off his mask but Barbara stopped him and said that he need not bother , because if she wanted to , she can easily find out.

marshal99
07-09-2007, 08:44 AM
Here it is , justice league issue 122
http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/news_images/6813_18308_1.jpg

Lorendiac
07-09-2007, 09:15 AM
Now, could somebody verify that Batgirl did indeed know at some point pre-Crisis?

Scroll back and take another look at my listing for Batgirl I. At the end of that paragraph, I include a link to a page on my website wherein I examine, in detail, the story in which she "lost" that knowledge and the subsequent story (about three years later) in which she made it clear that she had somehow regained that knowledge. That latter story was published in 1983, definitely still in Pre-Crisis continuity at the time.

If you want the very short version: she pops up at Wayne Manor (as Batgirl) in "Detective Comics #526," tells Dick to get into his costume right away, and says sweetly, "Of course I know Bruce and you are Batman and Robin, Dick. I’m not stupid – and I am a detective.!" :):):)

Lorendiac
07-09-2007, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the feedback, foxley! I can tell my second draft of this list will be a real improvement over the first one, with the help I'm getting from various people! :)

Harvey Harris - one of Bruce's tutors in the art of deduction before he became Batman, Harris deduced Bruce Wayne was Batman but took the knowledge to his grave. Although this was originally a golden age story, it was also part of Earth 1 continuity, being mentioned in 'The Untold Legend of the Batman' mini-series

I have that mini too -- I really should have remembered him.

Composite Superman - learned Batman and Superman's secret identities, but lost the knowledge when he lost his powers. Presumably he regained this knowledge when he regained his powers, especially as he could read minds (World's Finest 142)

I think I read one of his stories, years ago, but now I remember almost nothing about it beyond the physical appearance of the character.

Mrs Chilton - the mother of Joe Chill and the housekeeper of Bruce's Uncle Philip and therefore the woman who raised Bruce

I think my only knowledge of her comes from that same "Untold Legend" mini -- but I didn't realize she ever learned Bruce's secret before she died. I don't think that point was mentioned in the mini, although Alfred reflected that Bruce must never learn she was the mother of Joe Chill. So I gathered there'd been a previous story (probably with her deathbed scene?) in which Alfred learned that but managed to keep it secret from Bruce. Did the same story include her revelation that she'd figured out who Batman was?

Most of the others you mentioned were complete strangers to me -- except that I think someone once told me that Bruce had a cranky old relative who was terribly disappointed in him, until learning the truth on his deathbed. That must have been Uncle Silas. I've never actually read any of his appearances, though (there may have been only one).

Buried Alien
07-09-2007, 11:21 AM
It seems that the Barry Allen Flash is missing from the list. :)

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Jukka Laine of Finland
07-09-2007, 08:02 PM
Donna Troy's husband knew. The Longs played tennis once with Dick and Starfire. Dick talked about Batman to Terry.

When I first read it, I thought. "Does Batman know about this?"

Jeff O.
07-09-2007, 08:11 PM
Composite Superman - learned Batman and Superman's secret identities, but lost the knowledge when he lost his powers. Presumably he regained this knowledge when he regained his powers, especially as he could read minds (World's Finest 142)


I think I read one of his stories, years ago, but now I remember almost nothing about it beyond the physical appearance of the character.

Link:

"I know your Batcave’s secrets and all your secrets!" (http://www.oddballcomics.com/article.php?story=archive2003-06-16)

foxley
07-09-2007, 09:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback, foxley! I can tell my second draft of this list will be a real improvement over the first one, with the help I'm getting from various people! :)



I have that mini too -- I really should have remembered him.



I think I read one of his stories, years ago, but now I remember almost nothing about it beyond the physical appearance of the character.



I think my only knowledge of her comes from that same "Untold Legend" mini -- but I didn't realize she ever learned Bruce's secret before she died. I don't think that point was mentioned in the mini, although Alfred reflected that Bruce must never learn she was the mother of Joe Chill. So I gathered there'd been a previous story (probably with her deathbed scene?) in which Alfred learned that but managed to keep it secret from Bruce. Did the same story include her revelation that she'd figured out who Batman was?

Most of the others you mentioned were complete strangers to me -- except that I think someone once told me that Bruce had a cranky old relative who was terribly disappointed in him, until learning the truth on his deathbed. That must have been Uncle Silas. I've never actually read any of his appearances, though (there may have been only one).

Glad to be of service. :)

'The Encylopedia of Comic Book Heroes, Volume One: Batman' by Michael L. Fleisher (recently reprinted by DC and a worthwhile investment for any serious Bat-scholar) is an exhaustive examination of the first 30 years of Batman's career. It contains a list of everyone who was aware of Batman's true identity. The first four I listed (Davis, Wyre, Allen and Uncle Silas) were all one-shot characters who appeared in 1956 or later and died knowing that Bruce Wayne was Batman. If you were including Joe Chill (who learned the secret and then died), i figured these four also qualified.

I did not include those from other other planets, dimensions or time periods who were aware of the secret (and in the fifties and early sixties there were a lot of them). I also did not include those who discovered the secret but then lost that knowledge (this group includes Killer Moth and Clayface), or figured it out but were then tricked into believing they had made a mistake (e.g. Mirror Man).

If you did want to include those from other time periods, an obvious candidate would be Brane Taylor, the Batman of the Future, who substituted for Bruce once when he had injured his leg and didn't want Vicki Vale figuring out he was Batman.

The Composite Superman had the powers of all of the LSH, including Saturn Girl's telepathy, so discovering Batmans identity was easy. He lost this knowledge when he lost his powers, but regained it whenever they were restored, up until his death some time in the 70s.

Mrs Chilton first appeared in Batman 208 and at the end of that issue she reveals to the readers that she knows Bruce is Batman, although Bruce is unaware of this fact (or that she is the mother of Joe and Max Chill). Batman 208 may have been Mrs Chilton's only appearance until Untold Legend.

marshal99
07-09-2007, 11:39 PM
The outsider also should know batman's secret identity since he's alfred's evil alter ego.

OverMaster
07-10-2007, 06:13 AM
You are forgetting the obvious:
Bat-Mite.

Lorendiac
07-10-2007, 01:01 PM
If you were including Joe Chill (who learned the secret and then died), i figured these four also qualified.

Quite right. I don't eliminate a character just because he was already long dead as the Pre-Crisis era drew to a close in the mid-80s, nor does he need to be a "regular" who appeared in several different stories. Appearing in at least one story, in which he definitely knew Batman's secret, is good enough to qualify him! :)

I did not include those from other other planets, dimensions or time periods who were aware of the secret (and in the fifties and early sixties there were a lot of them). I also did not include those who discovered the secret but then lost that knowledge (this group includes Killer Moth and Clayface), or figured it out but were then tricked into believing they had made a mistake (e.g. Mirror Man).

I definitely want to include characters who knew at some point and then lost the knowledge. (I included such characters in my prior effort, late last year, to list all the people who have learned the secret in the Post-Crisis era.) I'm not familiar with Mirror Man, but I might want to count him too, depending upon the circumstances. I'll dig into it.

The other categories you mention are interesting. I've read reprints (a long time ago) of at least one or two of the Batman and Robin "time travel" stories, but I remember very few details and didn't realize they might have revealed their identities to people in bygone eras. At the moment: I'm inclined to want to count people from different times, people from different planets in the same "universe," and probably people from different "dimensions" -- except for anyone from the dimensional realities (or parallel universes, or whatever we should call them) of Earth-2 or Earth-Prime. I'll appreciate any further names you can supply to me in those categories, in your spare time. (No rush! I expect it will be at least a month or two before I post an updated list, probably longer! :))


Mrs Chilton first appeared in Batman 208 and at the end of that issue she reveals to the readers that she knows Bruce is Batman, although Bruce is unaware of this fact (or that she is the mother of Joe and Max Chill). Batman 208 may have been Mrs Chilton's only appearance until Untold Legend.

Interesting. In that case, how did Alfred know about the Joe Chill/Mrs. Chilton connection in "Untold Legend"? You make it sound as if the reader finds out in "Batman #208" but Mrs. Chilton never actually talks it over with any other Earth-1 character?

Jeff O.
07-10-2007, 09:35 PM
In BATMAN No. 194, Blockbuster became quite distressed when he realized that his friend Bruce Wayne and his enemy Batman were the same person.

Link:

http://www.oddballcomics.com/article.php?story=archive2003-01-09 (http://www.oddballcomics.com/article.php?story=archive2003-01-09)

Because of The Blockbuster's mental deficiencies, he is later convinced that Batman is actually Solomon Grundy under the cowl. Yes, Solomon Grundy. (Or at least a dead ringer for Grundy.)

foxley
07-11-2007, 02:12 AM
Interesting. In that case, how did Alfred know about the Joe Chill/Mrs. Chilton connection in "Untold Legend"? You make it sound as if the reader finds out in "Batman #208" but Mrs. Chilton never actually talks it over with any other Earth-1 character?

There may be other Mrs Chilton appearances that I am unaware of. However, I suspect the writers of 'Untold Legend' wanted to include this connection while still having Bruce unaware of it, so they used Alfred as a mouthpiece.

Another two who definitely knew:

Ubu, Ra's al Ghul's bodyguard. He was present with Ra's in the Batcave and saw Bruce unmasked. Later driven mad by the exploding Lazarus Pit, he returned to the empty Batcave seeking revenge on Bruce Wayne and eventually died in Wayne Manor.

The Monitor. If Harbinger knew, then the Monitor must have.

foxley
07-13-2007, 06:32 AM
Again, these details come mostly from 'The Encyclopedia of Comic Book Heroes,, Volume One: Batman' by Michael L. Fleisher.

Killer Moth learned Batman's identity in Detective Comics #173 when he kidnapped and impersonated Bruce Wayne. He lost the knowledge when he was shot and the operation that saved his life necessitated the removal of the portion of his brain housing recent memories.

Clayface (Matt Hagen) learned Batman's identity in World's Finest #140. I'm not sure of the details of this story except that involved Clayface turning into Superman and gaining his powers. He was defeated by being exposed to red kyrptonite (which may account for him losing the knowledge).

Mirror Man (a minor villain of the 50s and 60s) used a special mirror to see through Batman's cowl and discovered his identity in Detective Comics #217. Batman foiled a second attempt to confirm his findings. In Batman #157, Batman uses a ruse involving Alfred to convince the villain he had made a mistake.

Gurney was a minor criminal to the extra-dimensional planet Plaxius in Batman #125 and is present when Batman reveals his identity to the Plaxians. Batman, Robin and Gurney lose all memory of this journey when they return to Earth.

Denny Kale and Shorty Biggs were actors turned criminals who escaped jail and persuaded Professor Nichols to send them back in time by impersonating Batman and Robin in World's Finest #132. When the real Batman and Robin pursued the, kale and Biggs captured them and unmasked them. They lost their memory of this as a result of a freak accident in an alchemist's laboratory.

Other times, planets and dimensions:

The inhabitants of Venus knew Batman's secret identity as a result of having watched his crime-fighting exploits through their TV space scanners (Detective Comics #260)

All inhabitants of the 26th century, including the villain Karko, know that Bruce Wayne is Batman (Detective Comics #257)

Rak, a villain from the 21st century (how futuristic!), learned Batman's identity on a time-journey to the 20th century (1963 to be precise) but was apprehended and returned to the future before he had a chance to betray what he had learned to anyone in the 20th century (World's Finest #135)

Kid Kyoto
07-14-2007, 06:54 AM
The Legion of Superheroes knew, they met him in an issue of Brave and Bold.

Kid Kyoto
07-14-2007, 07:24 AM
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