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rockgrant
07-08-2007, 02:57 PM
A few days ago I began an extensive rereading of the JMS issues. Here's some things that I've noticed my second time around:

- Though a lot of people complained about it, the issues with mystical elements are JMS at his best. The Morlun and Shathra stories are classics, and feature the best kind of Spidey stories, with the webslinger facing near-impossible odds and, through sheer wit and determination, coming out on top.

- That said, there's way too much Dr. Strange. For awhile there he's practically a supporting character.

-"Happy Birthday" is a fantastic story marred by a cheesy ending. Seriously, how many times do we have to see Peter talk to Uncle Ben "one last time?"

-The Mary Jane returns issue would be an absolute classic if it didn't rely on so many ridiculous coincidences. I mean, come on, Peter, Mary Jane, Captain America, and Dr. Doom all at the same airport at the same terminal at the same time? In DENVER, of all places? When I read a comic book I allow my disbelief to be suspended moreso than I would in a novel or a movie, but this is just too much. That said, the scene with Peter and MJ embracing at long last with Peter telling MJ that he needs her still brings a tear to my eye.

- Speaking of Mary Jane, she's the most interesting character in the book. She's funny, girly, strong, independent, mysterious, flirty, ambitious--you can really see why Pete loves her so much. To borrow a sentiment from the recent Sensational annual, there's a sense that Peter will never quite figure her out, will never really understand her completely, and that's what keeps their love so fresh and exciting and new. JMS, unlike a lot of other writers, hasn't forgotten the party-girl facade that MJ put up for so many years to keep people from getting too close to her. His MJ has developed from this personality, allowing people like Peter and May inside but still keeping her guard up, still keeping some of her innermost thoughts and secrets to herself. My absolute favorite MJ moment: she's leaving NY for an audition in LA, and she breaks her embrace with Peter suddenly, turning around for a quick, "See ya, Tiger," before she walks away. Classic MJ.

- JMS seems to recognize that he's the first writer in a long time to really get MJ right. May tells MJ regarding her movie career, "they've just used you as a good-looking face, as a plot device. You haven't actually played a character yet."

- I haven't gotten to "The Other" yet, but I'm of the opinion that "The Book of Ezekiel" definitely should've been the end of the Spider-Totem stories. It's a perfect ending, and one of my all-time favorites.

- Peter is FUNNY. His jokes are a bit corny sometimes, but when he's on, he's really on. And JMS is great at putting him in humerous situations as well. After May gives him some tips about washing his costume more often, several characters throughout the issue comment that he smells like bleach. Another great moment is when Spidey's perched on a car and a police officer pulls up next to him. Spidey says, "I bet the New York travel laws don't have anything covering this!" The cop smiles, and the next panel shows Spidey holding a ticket. "Hm, guess they do." The scene where Peter orders a dozen raw oysters "with a dozen tiny swords as well, y'know, so they at least have a fighting chance" was particularly funny as well.

- The costume Leo Zelinsky designs for Peter is the costume that the doomed future Peter wears in "Happy Birthday." Most of you probably already know this, but I never noticed it. It's a nice touch, creepy and forboding.

- There are far too many "Thank you God, for MJ. I know I don't deserve her, but thanks" scenes. They're cheesy and they get old quickly.

- Detective Lamont just has to know that Spidey is Peter (well, obviously he knows now that everyone does, but I mean before he was unmasked.) Peter gives him the letter from Gwen with the front side obscured by a steel plate, threatening both Lamont and his family if he attempts to remove it and read what's written. But Lamont certainly reads the text he manages to get for Spidey from the other side, which has Peter's name on it. Obviously, Spidey wouldn't be this protective of anything that wasn't written to him, so at the very least Lamont must know his name is Peter.

-There are countless jokes about New Jersey being an awful place to live.

- A lot of the action seems to take place in the Bronx. At one point (I think in "Happy Birthday,") Peter tells someone "This is how we do things in the Bronx!" before hitting him. I find this odd, as there's really never been a connection between Peter and the Bronx. Maybe that's where JMS is from?

- Another note on location. Does anyone know where Peter lives during this time period? I've found no mention of it. I'm assuming it's somewhere in Manhattan, but beyond that, I have no idea. JMS NEVER uses those little top-lefthand-corner boxes that tell you where the action is taking place. This is something I really miss from the Spider-Man books. Having been to NY twice and being fairly familiar with the city, I always found it pretty cool to know exactly what part of the city the action was taking place. It made the stories seem more grounded and real. One of the coolest things I did last time I was in the city was walking across the Brooklyn bridge. I could literally see Spidey and Goblin fighting it out above one of the tressels, Gwen falling and Spidey snagging her with a webline. You just don't get that feeling of geographical realism in JMS's stories, because he never tells you where you are.

- The term "two-fer" pops up at least 3 times.

Any other thoughts or additions? PLEASE, nothing pretaining to Sins Past in this thread, I'd like to discuss the other aspects of JMS's run rather than have this turn into yet another bitch-fest.

rZi
07-08-2007, 03:10 PM
I too reread his run recently and enjoyed it more the second time around.

I agree with alot of the points you made in regards to the humour and mj being a great character. I liked that she got alot of attention and that his supporting cast went to just may and her, i too felt he had become a supporting character in his own book over the past few years.

Venom
07-09-2007, 10:30 AM
-The Mary Jane returns issue would be an absolute classic if it didn't rely on so many ridiculous coincidences. I mean, come on, Peter, Mary Jane, Captain America, and Dr. Doom all at the same airport at the same terminal at the same time? In DENVER, of all places? When I read a comic book I allow my disbelief to be suspended moreso than I would in a novel or a movie, but this is just too much. That said, the scene with Peter and MJ embracing at long last with Peter telling MJ that he needs her still brings a tear to my eye.

Hey, it can happen. It's a comic after all and comics are supposed to be unrealistic last time I checked. Just like a person with spider-powers fighting guys with alien costumes and dressing up as goblins, octopuses, vultures, scorpions, rhinos and man eating lizards and people having the power to control electricity and being made out of sand and water.

I think the Peter and MJ make-up story is already a classic and one of JMS's best single issues. In my honest opinion I think you're stopping yourself from considering it a classic story. Please don't take my post as an insult. I'm just implying that if you look at the story in a different way you'll probably think it's perfect.

Magneto Rocks
07-09-2007, 11:53 AM
I miss the way the school, Julie in Administration, Lamont etc all vanished as JMS goit caught up in other things.

I read a novel once which was soo clearly JMS inspired and there was some great stuff about Peter knowing he had to "Go into the jaws of death, into the mouth of Hell. He had to confront his arch nemesis once again.

HE had to speak to Julie in administration."

And then when she turned out to be a huge Spider-Man fan in "Happy Birthday" and he practically ground his teeth to nothing, that was brilliant stuff. All great JMS things which disappeared.

I also loved the "alternate future" of ASM 500 and hoped JMS had more plans for it, wish we could have seen more of it.

Crimson
07-09-2007, 11:59 AM
Rereading the run sounds like a good idea. I might have to do that sometime... I normally just reread an arc, a mini or one issue.

Sean Whitmore
07-09-2007, 01:10 PM
I miss the way the school, Julie in Administration, Lamont etc all vanished as JMS goit caught up in other things.

He really did let a lot of cool stuff fall by the wayside. Maybe he intended to stick around on the book longer and get back to it all eventually, but as it is, it leaves the last half of JMS' run dramatically different than his first half.

It was nice to see at least Lamont taken care of, even if it was by a different writer.


SEAN

Chris Nowlin
07-09-2007, 01:52 PM
Rereading the run sounds like a good idea. I might have to do that sometime... I normally just reread an arc, a mini or one issue.

Rereading good writer's runs is always a good thing. Why I like Marvel comics. You can see a story in layers like that.

Read the issue on its own or as part of an arc or as part of a run or as part of a series or as part of a character's saga or...

Mikl C
07-09-2007, 01:55 PM
This might be a popular opinion. But I freaking HATE Ezekiel. GO AWAY. ARGH. He's just so useless and pointless. And I hate the way he was drawn. But then I just dislike JRJnr.
I also hated his Morgan Le Fey story.
And Shade was SO lame. some of his stories were good, and some were just awful.

Sean Whitmore
07-09-2007, 01:58 PM
But then I just dislike JRJnr.

What the heck was that!? Something fast and low-flying just whizzed by my head!

Oh, I know what it was. That was Mikl C's credibility, pissing off out the window. Wave goodbye, everyone!


SEAN

Mikl C
07-09-2007, 02:18 PM
STFU!
Deus Ex Chris agrees.
~~~
| o o |
_\ _ /

Peter Parker by JRJnr!
I think I overdid the wavey lines on the head though. They arent nearly straight enough.

rZi
07-09-2007, 06:36 PM
Another note: he wrote very clever and witty dialouge which im going to miss...his character interaction was good but peters thoughts inside his head were really impressive...you can totaly tell he's got a degree in psycology or whatever it is.

YOU WILL BE MISSED.

Cody H
07-10-2007, 12:17 AM
Another note: he wrote very clever and witty dialouge which im going to miss...his character interaction was good but peters thoughts inside his head were really impressive...you can totaly tell he's got a degree in psycology or whatever it is.JMS has a degree in psychology? Interesting...

Sean Whitmore
07-10-2007, 12:19 AM
JMS has a degree in psychology? Interesting...

Yup, from San Diego State U.


SEAN

tony2074
07-10-2007, 09:06 AM
i enjoyed the mystical stuff, it just didn't feel

Magneto Rocks
07-10-2007, 09:40 AM
He really did let a lot of cool stuff fall by the wayside. Maybe he intended to stick around on the book longer and get back to it all eventually, but as it is, it leaves the last half of JMS' run dramatically different than his first half.

It was nice to see at least Lamont taken care of, even if it was by a different writer.


SEAN

Hang on, hang on- Lamont was taken care of???

This is gonna be something to do with Sensational, isn't it? Oy...

Sean Whitmore
07-10-2007, 02:58 PM
Hang on, hang on- Lamont was taken care of???

This is gonna be something to do with Sensational, isn't it? Oy...

The annual, yeah. Which was real good.


SEAN

Noronha
07-12-2007, 04:27 PM
I dont´care what everyone says,JMS single handadly saved Spider Man,of course he had some bad stories,but everyone that has a long run is bound to have!Stan Lee had some really bad ones,Claremont in x-men(1st run)has some bad too,but overall i think he will be remembered for his greater ones!

md62
07-13-2007, 05:24 PM
JMS' run on ASM started off great. What I think happened is he just stayed too long. And then he had a few bad story ideas & we forgot the good stuff. And I loved his take on the marriage. Good solid marriages don't have to be boring. Fraction also nailed the marriage perfectly in the SSM Annual.

paulski
07-15-2007, 04:32 PM
I don't necessarily agree that he's been on too long - the way storylines are drawn out these days, a writer can stay on a book for years before he runs out of good ideas - he just seemed to lose the plot around the time JR Jr finished up. Sins Past, anyone? ;)

captain winkie
07-15-2007, 10:55 PM
I enjoyed JMS' rebuilding of the supporting cast (although i was semi upset that it inerfered with Jenkin's supporting cast).

I still say that the problem with JMS' run on Amazing had nothing really to do with JMS at all. I feel like some of the stories that peole complain about were rushed, or watered down, and the supporting cast fell by the wayside so that Spidey could be involved in other parts of the MU. The New Avengers membership kinda railroaded things, then The Other had to be finished up in time for Civil War, so who knows how all of the different storylines would have been handled had JMS been able to work on them as he wished.


So if you want to complain about JMS' run on Amazing, yell at Bendis. Its his fault. :rolleyes:

Chiasm
07-16-2007, 02:41 AM
I've said this elsewhere but will say it again.

JMS is quite simply the best Peter Parker writer to ever grace a comic book. No other writer has even come close to portraying Peter, MJ, and Aunt May the way they should be portrayed and no other writer has made me ever care so much about these characters. And JMS simply has the best dialogue of any current comic out there. Unfortunately Peter has to put on the Spidey costume now and then and when that happens JMS tends to struggle as the villians are rather meh. But overall I'd rather keep JMS than risk a new writer simply because of JMS's strength which is Peter Parker. Amazing Spiderman under JMS is really about Peter Parker who happens to be Spiderman not vice versa. This was also the reason the movies were so good. It was Peter first, Spidey second. I fear the next writer will not get this important concept and will put the costume first.

Venom
07-16-2007, 08:23 AM
I've said this elsewhere but will say it again.

JMS is quite simply the best Peter Parker writer to ever grace a comic book. No other writer has even come close to portraying Peter, MJ, and Aunt May the way they should be portrayed and no other writer has made me ever care so much about these characters. And JMS simply has the best dialogue of any current comic out there. Unfortunately Peter has to put on the Spidey costume now and then and when that happens JMS tends to struggle as the villians are rather meh. But overall I'd rather keep JMS than risk a new writer simply because of JMS's strength which is Peter Parker. Amazing Spiderman under JMS is really about Peter Parker who happens to be Spiderman not vice versa. This was also the reason the movies were so good. It was Peter first, Spidey second. I fear the next writer will not get this important concept and will put the costume first.

JMS created some really good new foes that have definite potential. Morlun, Charlie, Carole and Shanthra are just a few to name that made excellent reads. I'd only just read the "Skin Deep" storyline for the first time the other day and I enjoyed it very much.

In my opinion I think JMS writes classic Spider-Man foes better. Look how calculating and menacing he's made the Kingpin by bringing him back to Spidey's world. His Doc Ock story was great too. I just wished he used more of them. He said before all the "Civil War" plans came up that he wanted to use another classic villain after "The Other" event like Sandman or another Doc Ock story.

Tien Long
07-18-2007, 05:49 AM
Inspired by this thread, I reread the Digger storyline, and I must say there are definitely aspects of JMS's writing and character development that are truly terriffic, on several different levels. Even for the most minor of characters, like the mob boss, Forelli, as well as the main antagonist Digger, JMS is able to explore complex themes like paying for one's past sins and the quest for revenger. However, it is Peter Parker who is the most multifaceted and complex character. Scientist, hero, tough guy, husband, lover, teacher, JMS was able to somehow to touch upon all these character traits. Also, his Mary Jane is not some perpheriry background. She provides advice, humor, and stability for Peter.

All in all, I think JMS's run on Spider-Man was great and returned Spider-Man to the forefront of Marvel.

Rahul
07-18-2007, 09:49 AM
Add me to the list of yays.

Granted, I haven't read all of his run, but his Spidey is awesome. He will be missed whoever the next writer is....

sabongero
07-18-2007, 10:19 PM
How can you say no to reading Sins Past, right ? A reader can just read it over and over and over.

The idea just came out of left field. It wasn't expected. Now I hate the premise of the plot, but I have to admit it was a really good written story and good art by Deodato.

Scarlet Skier
07-19-2007, 12:25 AM
I'm just reading through the JMS run for the first time. I'm at issue 500.

So far, I'd have to say it's the best run on Amazing I've read since Roger Stern, in the early '80s.

GreatLakesAvengers
07-20-2007, 08:47 AM
STFU!
Deus Ex Chris agrees.
~~~
| o o |
_\ _ /

Peter Parker by JRJnr!
I think I overdid the wavey lines on the head though. They arent nearly straight enough.

I'll jump in on your JRJr non-fan club

And I'd totally go for a JMS non-fan club, too!

Rere
07-20-2007, 07:54 PM
JMS did a good job in my opinion. (Hope I don't regret saying this by the end of OMD ...) His characters interactions are great. He wrote some pretty funny dialogues and as someone already pointed out here, his monologue boxes with his inner-thoughts were indeed impressive. And being a big fan of MJ myself I have to say I loved what he did to her. Brought her back, gave her space and a place of importance in Pete's life again and above all, he seemed to always write her with much respect for the character. MJ had potential and he bet on that. And for that alone, I'm thankful. (And would be specially thankful if he didn't threw all that away by the end of his goodbye arc ...)

Also, I specially enjoyed his first issues. I liked Morlun. (not the eating-eye-balls later version, that was uh ... I dunno ... plain weird.) But "Coming Home" was really a fun read. I loved the huge battle with Morlun and how Spidey almost got beat up to death. (I know the concept is overused, but then again, I guess I'm just a sucker for well-written, exceptionally well-draw plots like that). Plus, JRJr was inspired in that arc.

And like others already said, Spidey was funny. Witty and funny back then. JMS wrote some great simple and unpretentious (yet hilarious) interactions between Spidey and his supporting cast. Being them Aunt May, MJ or simply some unknown new yorker he ended up bumping into during the issues. And that is for me, THE most important symbolic and emblematic feature of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. The guy is funny. PERIOD. He is the funniest super-hero out there. Stan wanted like that, Stan wroted like that. We love him because he is like that (at least I do) and finally, you just don't mess up with what Stan wants. :D

Unfortunatelly that same humor seemed to somewhat have vanished during his run. I can't blame him much. Hey, it has been a long run after all. But yeah, my biggest concern is that it seems he got himself (and Spidey along) way too lost in all that "mystical road" stuff (but then again, that is his style as a writer). I guess seeing him cruising around other dimensions or spending waaaay too much time with Doc Strange is not my thing. I just prefer Spidey more local, really. In NY or at least in this planet.

Overall, it has been a very good run. But most of all, I think the timing is perfect for him to step out of the scene and let other good writers (hopefully!) try to fill in the shoes with some fresh ideas for our beloved Wall-crawler.

And yeah. This post is long. Sorry. If you read this far you probably deserve a cookie. :p