Amy Winehouse's "Rehab"

[Brother Zag]

Hey Steven,

Great true story behind that song. Winehouse is known for her drunken exploits (kinda like a Lindsey Lohan with talent). Her manager told her she had to check in to Rehab to clean up before she recorded her new album.

So...

She fired her management, kept partyin' and wrote a song about it. Heh.

We play it here in Vermont on "The Point" (pointfm.com) which sounds a little like your Area 108 with more and cooler artists. Her first track over here was "You Know I'm No Good". That's a tune about foolin' around on her current boyfriend with her old boyfriend. She recently dumped said "current" boyfriend and married her old boyfriend, so that song's probably based in fact a lickle too.

Mike

[cappa donna]

Hey Steven,

Great true story behind that song. Winehouse is known for her drunken exploits (kinda like a Lindsey Lohan with talent). Her manager told her she had to check in to Rehab to clean up before she recorded her new album.

So...

She fired her management, kept partyin' and wrote a song about it. Heh.

We play it here in Vermont on "The Point" (pointfm.com) which sounds a little like your Area 108 with more and cooler artists. Her first track over here was "You Know I'm No Good". That's a tune about foolin' around on her current boyfriend with her old boyfriend. She recently dumped said "current" boyfriend and married her old boyfriend, so that song's probably based in fact a lickle too.

Mike

She's a trainwreck. She's Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, and Angelina Jolie all rolled into one. That girl is so uber talented, but she's gonna fizzle out soon and die young. It's really too bad.

[Mikl C]

Amy rocks. She's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lohan or anyone like that. She actually has talent. I love how drunk she is :D
Gonna see her backstage in October!

[Hulkamaniac]

She's a trainwreck. She's Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, and Angelina Jolie all rolled into one. That girl is so uber talented, but she's gonna fizzle out soon and die young. It's really too bad.

So your saying shes Peter O'Toole with a vagina? genetics and a myriad of other factors can dictate that, not an endorsement to booze and drug but true all the same.

[NatGertler]

Peter O'Toole is going to fizzle out soon and die young?

[Hulkamaniac]

Peter O'Toole is going to fizzle out soon and die young?

Exactly the point, wow your real subtle.
Peter O'Toole is the most notorious drinker in the history of Hollywood, many a SNL skits and stand-up comic jokes have pointed this out. Yet he has outlived all other druggies and boozers that have ever been. hope you get it now, sheesh, way to ruin a funny retort, thanks alot bro :p ;)

[dancj]

I still hold out hope that Peter O'Toole will play The Joker in a film of The Dark Knight Returns.

and he should have played Dumbledore, who managed to lose everything that made him good in the films

[king mob]

She's a trainwreck. She's Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, and Angelina Jolie all rolled into one. That girl is so uber talented, but she's gonna fizzle out soon and die young. It's really too bad.


She won't die young but she is on the track to burning out early. However she is magnificent live and the 'Back To Black' album was one of the best of 2006.

[Magneto_X]

Peter O'Toole is going to fizzle out soon and die young?

He's been replaced by a Skrull. ;)

[Brother Zag]

He's been replaced by a Skrull. ;)

Bwa-ha-ha!

[Albert]

I still hold out hope that Peter O'Toole will play The Joker in a film of The Dark Knight Returns.



My god that's genius casting. Be a kick in the head if that were the one that got him the Oscar.

[Charles RB]

She won't die young but she is on the track to burning out early.

That's stupid of her then, isn't it.

Plus she's apparently been diagnosed manic depressive but won't take medication for it, which also sounds pretty stupid.

And also has said she hits people when drunk, yet keeps getting drunk, which is beyond stupidity and into downright bastardness.

I never knew of this woman before and now two minutes looking her up has made me decide "wow, she SUCKS".

[king mob]

That's stupid of her then, isn't it.

Plus she's apparently been diagnosed manic depressive but won't take medication for it, which also sounds pretty stupid.

And also has said she hits people when drunk, yet keeps getting drunk, which is beyond stupidity and into downright bastardness.

I never knew of this woman before and now two minutes looking her up has made me decide "wow, she SUCKS".


It's not so much stupid of her but careless; she's young, shes talented and shes having the time of her life since she's ditched the Jamie Cullum jazz stuff she did on her first album.

She's a genuine rock & roll star & we don't produce too many of them these days. She's also producing some of the best mainstream music today, which also helps. Let's not forget how much of a mess some of the greatest artists of the past were.

Winehouse, like Pete Doherty, is tabloid-friendly & that's a shame because both are much more talented than another headline in the Metro. However she's hopefully going to remembered for her music rather than whereever shes got pissed up in this week.

[bartl]

I still hold out hope that Peter O'Toole will play The Joker in a film of The Dark Knight Returns.
He'll have to push his way past Mark Hamill, who will probably do the role for a million dollars. If they balk, he'll offer to pay them TWO million dollars.

[mattx110]

It's not so much stupid of her but careless; she's young, shes talented and shes having the time of her life since she's ditched the Jamie Cullum jazz stuff she did on her first album.

She's a genuine rock & roll star & we don't produce too many of them these days. She's also producing some of the best mainstream music today, which also helps. Let's not forget how much of a mess some of the greatest artists of the past were.

Winehouse, like Pete Doherty, is tabloid-friendly & that's a shame because both are much more talented than another headline in the Metro. However she's hopefully going to remembered for her music rather than whereever shes got pissed up in this week.

umm pete doherty sucks... i have no respect for idiots who go out of their way to act like idiots.

and well, the dap-kings are a great new york band, and they deserve the air play, so i'll take one whiny drunk for the greater good.

[Charles RB]

Let's not forget how much of a mess some of the greatest artists of the past were.

Yeah, but didn't that cause them to keep dying or burning out early? And AFAIK being a mess doesn't make you a musical talent (depending on what's messing you up, more likely to do the opposite).

[king mob]

umm pete doherty sucks... i have no respect for idiots who go out of their way to act like idiots.

and well, the dap-kings are a great new york band, and they deserve the air play, so i'll take one whiny drunk for the greater good.

Babyshambles are magnificent live (Kate Moss cameo apart) & Doherty is the best songwriter in the UK today. The Libertines should have been the band to change music forever but it went tits up and we ended up with these few years of utter joy before Barat & Doherty went their own ways.

However I want the Doherty who is a genius, not the tabloid husk who dominates his career.

[king mob]

Yeah, but didn't that cause them to keep dying or burning out early? And AFAIK being a mess doesn't make you a musical talent (depending on what's messing you up, more likely to do the opposite).

It doesn't but Winehouse has done the boring shite: it wasn't what would make her, & that's why she's glorious playing her messed-up Northern Soul/R & B/Hip-Hip/Blues to folk who are not used to this horrible bluntness.

Her set at the Pyramid stage at Glastonbury this year was one of the best I've seen in 17 years of going there; it was as punk as fuck & made me remember why I cared about Glastonbury & music generally. It was a sheer joy.

She is a mess & her cancelling T In The Park last weekend is rubbish, but I don't care. I want her to mess up & be this wonderful disaster & not just be a bland tabloid icon like Lily Allen.

[Charles RB]

I want her to mess up & be this wonderful disaster

Now I've never heard her before, so offhand I'd prefer her to not mess up because - since we're talking about substance abuse - that could kill her, cripple her or destroy her life. (And if I heard her, I might want her to not mess up so she can actually keep making music as opposed to aforementioned death or crippling)

[king mob]

Now I've never heard her before, so offhand I'd prefer her to not mess up because - since we're talking about substance abuse - that could kill her, cripple her or destroy her life. (And if I heard her, I might want her to not mess up so she can actually keep making music as opposed to aforementioned death or crippling)

I don't want her to fuck up & die-I know I've somewhat romanticised her 'issues' but she does have problems. Her second set at Glasto on the Jazz Stage where she was too battered to even introduce her backing band being a case in point. This aside (outside of Gogol Bordello, Iggy & the Stooges and Squarepusher) she was the musical highlight of Glastonbury.

But I romanticise about her again, which isn't normal for me. I want her to burn bright; I know from 'various' sources that shes not playing up and really is as talented as she seems.

I'm doing it again. Tsk.

Anyhow, download or listen to her 'Back to Black' stuff. It's unlike any British vocalist right now & that's brilliant!

[TheLazy]

It's not so much stupid of her but careless; she's young, shes talented and shes having the time of her life since she's ditched the Jamie Cullum jazz stuff she did on her first album.

She's a genuine rock & roll star & we don't produce too many of them these days. She's also producing some of the best mainstream music today, which also helps. Let's not forget how much of a mess some of the greatest artists of the past were.

Winehouse, like Pete Doherty, is tabloid-friendly & that's a shame because both are much more talented than another headline in the Metro. However she's hopefully going to remembered for her music rather than whereever shes got pissed up in this week.

Pete Doherty talented? Thats new.


umm pete doherty sucks... i have no respect for idiots who go out of their way to act like idiots.


What he said, he is basically a trainwreck waiting to happen and the only reason people still buy his music is so they dont feel too bad when they watch him OD one last time. Well I won't feel bad, I'll laugh, when I see it, it serves him right for do what ever the hell he was doing to that fan that had KO'd.

[TheLazy]

Babyshambles are magnificent live (Kate Moss cameo apart) & Doherty is the best songwriter in the UK today. The Libertines should have been the band to change music forever but it went tits up and we ended up with these few years of utter joy before Barat & Doherty went their own ways.

However I want the Doherty who is a genius, not the tabloid husk who dominates his career.

Dizzy Rascal lyrics wise, Bloc party music wise;)

[king mob]

Pete Doherty talented? Thats new.

He is. Very.




What he said, he is basically a trainwreck waiting to happen and the only reason people still buy his music is so they dont feel too bad when they watch him OD one last time. Well I won't feel bad, I'll laugh, when I see it, it serves him right for do what ever the hell he was doing to that fan that had KO'd.


People buy his music because (tabloid bollocks aside) his songs with The Libertines & Babyshambles actually say something as opposed to 95% of the bands who followed him.

[dancj]

Yeah, but didn't that cause them to keep dying or burning out early?
Are you being sarcastic?

Jimi Hendrix
Jim Morrison
Janice Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Elvis

[king mob]

Elvis isn't dead, he's working down the local chippy.

[Steven Grant]

But he's a liar and I'm not sure about you.

- Grant

[Van Custo]

All I know is Amy's last album is fire. She has agreat voice and style.

[Hulkamaniac]

Are you being sarcastic?

Jimi Hendrix
Jim Morrison
Janice Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Elvis


I wouldn't put Kurt Cobain in the same catigory as the rest you mentioned.
Kurt committed suicide by shotgun, not an overdose or through drug abuse as the rest did. Yes he took drugs and alcahol but his issues that led to his suicide did not stem from their use. Not that it helped , just that is wasn't the cause.

[Dan Apodaca]

He is. Very.
People buy his music because (tabloid bollocks aside) his songs with The Libertines & Babyshambles actually say something as opposed to 95% of the bands who followed him.

I think you have Stockholm syndrome.

[dancj]

I wouldn't put Kurt Cobain in the same catigory as the rest you mentioned.
Kurt committed suicide by shotgun, not an overdose or through drug abuse as the rest did. Yes he took drugs and alcahol but his issues that led to his suicide did not stem from their use. Not that it helped , just that is wasn't the cause.

I considered leaving him out, but he was off his face on drugs when he shot himself, so I'd consider that a likely part of the equation - though it's hard to be sure.

I was kind enough to let Buddy Holly off the hook because he probably didn't grab the controls of the plane in a drug filled frenzy ;)

[Charles RB]

Are you being sarcastic?

Jimi Hendrix
Jim Morrison
Janice Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Elvis

I'm not sure of your point here, since the five names support me in saying "didn't being a mess keep causing them to die or burn out?".

[mattx110]

I'm not sure of your point here, since the five names support me in saying "didn't being a mess keep causing them to die or burn out?".

i thought he was agreeing with you...

[dancj]

Actually I was being an idiot. I misread the original quote as "Yeah, but that didn't cause them to keep dying or burning out early?"

Obviously switching two words around can dramatically change the meaning of a sentence:o

[king mob]

Deep in the bowels of Wapping, Vicky Newton sits in front of 12 simply massive plasma screens. On these screens are flickering images, images captured indoors and outdoors, in off licences and performance venues, in public toilets and parks. These are images of Amy Winehouse's life. And Vicky sees them all.
Which is fortunate, because if she didn't, she wouldn't be able to continue with her daily, microscopic scrutiny of the pop star's behaviour in a tone that is increasingly hysterical.

"No! No! No!" That's today's headline reporting the news that Amy gave another wobbly performance the other night, this time at Cornwall's Eden project. Here is Vick's breathless report as relayed to her by a few reader correspondents and, no doubt, attendant paparazzi.
"The Cornwall gig began OK, but after two songs Amy suddenly dashed off leaving the crowd and her band bemused.

"After she returned to the stage, everything went downhill fast.

"She slapped herself in the face and hit her head repeatedly with the microphone.

"She forgot the lyrics to her own songs and mumbled swear words in between them.

"She even spat into the crowd which had paid £33 to see her."

Well if you are going to act like bourgeois consumers then you deserve all the disdain you get. Ahem.

Anyway, popping up throughout the copy are suggestions that there is more at work in Amy's behaviour than just the booze which Vick has been happy to blame everything on for a few months now. "Her behaviour suggests that behind closed doors she likes more than a drink", is one such remark. But what could Vick be referring to? Yoga? No doubt we'll find out soon enough.

(Just out of interest, there's a curious contrast between Vick's breathless coverage and that of the 3am girls, who have been spending most of their time dressing up on stage with Mika: "Amy's spokesman told us, 'Amy was annoyed with herself. She is a bit ring-rusty after not having played for a while and was upset after making a few mistakes in the set.'" Hurdy hur.)


http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/inthenews/0,,2130156,00.html

[BADunn]

Amy Winehouse. Oh, what a woman!

Seeing her taped performances and videos, I gather she's a poor performer on stage but that makes her more interesting. Her music marks a fantastic return for soul music and another fortunate/unfortunate blow to the lackluster music that is dragging America's musical reputation in the mud lately.

It's a shame that she's just as boosy and messed up in real life as she is in her songs but I hope she cleans up enough to enjoy her success and to give us more music.

[bfrank]

"Frank" >>>>>>>>"Back in Black"

[Spike-X]

Nuh-UH!

Back To Black sounds like the music she wants to make. Frank sounds like the music her former management wanted her to make. They tried to give her a Corinne Bailey Rae-style vibe, and it just doesn't suit her.

[KenK]

Nuh-UH!

Back To Black sounds like the music she wants to make. Frank sounds like the music her former management wanted her to make. They tried to give her a Corinne Bailey Rae-style vibe, and it just doesn't suit her.

I know you're not comparing that namby pamby shite on Corrine Bailey Rae's album to Frank?!? "Stronger Than Me" and "F-me Pumps" put Bailey Rae's whole album to shame.

[bfrank]

Nuh-UH!

Back To Black sounds like the music she wants to make. Frank sounds like the music her former management wanted her to make. They tried to give her a Corinne Bailey Rae-style vibe, and it just doesn't suit her.


I disagree....and was corinne Bailey Rae even out then?

"stronger Than Me", "Fuck Me Pumps", and "In my Bed" alone >>>>>"Back in Black"......

lady boy....lol.....

[bfrank]

I know you're not comparing that namby pamby shite on Corrine Bailey Rae's album to Frank?!? "Stronger Than Me" and "F-me Pumps" put Bailey Rae's whole album to shame.

I didn't read this befor I posted, honest....but QFT...........

[Spike-X]

I know you're not comparing that namby pamby shite on Corrine Bailey Rae's album to Frank?!?

No, I'm not.

Read it again.

[king mob]

Amy Winehouse. Oh, what a woman!

Seeing her taped performances and videos, I gather she's a poor performer on stage but that makes her more interesting. Her music marks a fantastic return for soul music and another fortunate/unfortunate blow to the lackluster music that is dragging America's musical reputation in the mud lately.

It's a shame that she's just as boosy and messed up in real life as she is in her songs but I hope she cleans up enough to enjoy her success and to give us more music.

She's not a poor performer live, far from it. The reason she got criticism for her Eden Project gig last week is her evey move is in the tabloids & she makes great copy. Plus, as mentioned, many of her current fans are just not used to seeing a performer that hasn't been sanitised for their benefit.

[king mob]

Nuh-UH!

Back To Black sounds like the music she wants to make. Frank sounds like the music her former management wanted her to make. They tried to give her a Corinne Bailey Rae-style vibe, and it just doesn't suit her.

Indeed though Frank was remixed more to cash in on the Jamie Cullum bandwagon which Winehouse was part of for a while. Winehouse has made it very clear she can't listen to Frank any more as it just isn't her.

[mattx110]

She's not a poor performer live, far from it. The reason she got criticism for her Eden Project gig last week is her evey move is in the tabloids & she makes great copy. Plus, as mentioned, many of her current fans are just not used to seeing a performer that hasn't been sanitised for their benefit.

i dearly hope she's been sanitised, i don't want the audience she spat on to catch anything...

being drunk on stage is unprofessional. performers are there for the public. not to show how much they hate them.

[king mob]

being drunk on stage is unprofessional. performers are there for the public. not to show how much they hate them.

You never saw The Pogues in their prime then?

Far too many acts are dreary and sanitised & not every band can be as dull as Coldplay or Snow Patrol. Winehouse is a pisshead who likes her booze; that's the point of Rehab. She's also showing you something far more genuine than the likes of Chris Martin could ever hope to.

People have become used to medicority & Winehouse is a refreshing change from the mainstream norm.

[Steven Grant]

being drunk on stage is unprofessional.

Excuse me? Since when? Dean Martin's whole act revolved around being drunk on stage. I've seen many rock acts with members obviously in special circumstances during performances, and they put on great, exciting and frequently unpredictable shows. Being drunk or wasted on stage doesn't automatically equate to a bad performance.


performers are there for the public.

Um... no... not really. Do you really think musicians etc. are there simply to be trained seals for audience amusement? Isn't the objective of a musician to take the audience somewhere only the musician can get them to? If the audience doesn't think an act is worth it, they'll stop buying tickets.

- Grant

[mattx110]

Excuse me? Since when? Dean Martin's whole act revolved around being drunk on stage. I've seen many rock acts with members obviously in special circumstances during performances, and they put on great, exciting and frequently unpredictable shows. Being drunk or wasted on stage doesn't automatically equate to a bad performance.



Um... no... not really. Do you really think musicians etc. are there simply to be trained seals for audience amusement? Isn't the objective of a musician to take the audience somewhere only the musician can get them to? If the audience doesn't think an act is worth it, they'll stop buying tickets.

- Grant
sort of mixed answer to you both.


wow, a lot of support for drunked acts. ever see pearl jam any time in the last decade and a half before last year or so? drunken on stage doesn't equate a good performance when you're too busy vomiting or peeing on the monitors.

and i didn't say musicians were trained seals. but when your drinking or drug-using gets more headlines than your music, you're giving up music integrity for press about how you spit on the audience.
and i always thought coldplay had to be on drugs to be so boring.

the fact that some musicians still indulge in substance abuse with so much information available on the great artists of the past who died from it is just stupidity. drunk is not more real than sober, and the fact that someone can equate mediocrity with being sober is insane.
tommy emmanuel, richard thompson, buddy guy, john williams, joss stone, vince gill, marty stuart all put on a terrific show, without a drug in them, and without drinking themselves stupid. stuart is a recovering alcoholic, and if you compare him drunk and sober, the difference is night and day.

and a musician, especially a pop-singer like whinehouse, gets their money from recording music for people, and performing for them. her job is to make music for people. drinking is obviously effecting her negatively, and from the late night performance i saw, it's amazing she can actually walk, and is ever on the right beat while singing. maybe substance abuse doesn't always equate a bad performance, but the evidence i've seen (including playing with non-famous people in my area) is that it's more difficult to play in time, and have a relative sense of the volume level, and communicate with other musicians when drunk.
whinehouse is lucky she's not really an integral part of the band. if the drummer acted like her, you'd definitely notice the adverse affects.
and watching a drunk on stage is only more genuine if you like abusive relationships and alcoholics that won't get clean.

[Spike-X]

When I was in a band many years ago, I was fucked-up on stage a few times. It's not something I'm proud of, because I played like a c*** and let down the rest of the band who were trying to put on a decent performance. I even heard a story about me a week after a gig, talking about how I'd been throwing up on stage (not true, but not far from it). I'd much rather have heard a story about a great guitar solo I'd played.

From an audience point of view, I'd much rather see a good performer in control of themselves on stage, than not. That's why I'm looking forward to seeing Ryan Adams on his current tour next month, now that he's been clean and sober for a year. Last time he came out I didn't go, because I didn't want to spend all that money and travel an hour out of town when there was a good chance the show would be a clusterfuck, as many of his shows around that time were, because he had a habit of going backstage and drinking too much between the first and second sets.

He's still putting on awesome shows, only now they're awesome all the way through, rather than descending into chaos and abuse in the second half.

Having said all that, though, I'm not a big fan of the "Dance, monkey!" school of audience/performer relations. The artists I tend to be a fan of didn't get to where they are by doing what other people told them to do and playing what/how other people told them to play, so why should they start now? I got much more out of, for example, Bruce Springsteen playing his new songs from The Rising when I saw him in 2003 than I did from seeing him plod through Thunder Road and Born to Run yet again.

To sum up...while I might be interested in seeing Amy Winehouse live, I'm not going to spend good money on tickets if she's going to be running off stage to throw up after two songs, or spitting on the audience.

[king mob]

ever see pearl jam any time in the last decade and a half before last year or so?

They're so 1992 & no.


and i didn't say musicians were trained seals. but when your drinking or drug-using gets more headlines than your music, you're giving up music integrity for press about how you spit on the audience.

It gets more headlines in certain aspects of the press. The Sun loves Winehouse because she makes good copy, but you wouldn't ever hear them commenting on her music because they're not in the business of doing that.


drunk is not more real than sober, and the fact that someone can equate mediocrity with being sober is insane.

No, that's not the point. Winehouse staggering out pissed and having what is obviously fun (something anyone who has seen her in the last year could testify to) is honesty. She's not going through the motions as say


joss stone

Who is simply contrived. See also Lily Allen (who I'm just beginning to see the point of a bit) and Kate Nash (http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/story/0,,2130146,00.html).





and a musician, especially a pop-singer like whinehouse, gets their money from recording music for people, and performing for them. her job is to make music for people.

And if one doesn't like it, then don't buy her stuff, go to her gigs, or get pissy when she's a bit pissed at a festival.



whinehouse is lucky she's not really an integral part of the band.

Eh, she wrote all the material (apart from the Zutons and Specials covers she works into her sets) & she sings that material. That's pretty integral. What isn't noted is that she does get through gigs, but this is the first summer she's played to huge audiences at Glastonbury or the Eden Project.



and watching a drunk on stage is only more genuine if you like abusive relationships and alcoholics that won't get clean.

Come on Matt, you should know better than to play this strawman argument.

[Steven Grant]

wow, a lot of support for drunken acts.

I'm not arguing in favor of going on stage drunk. But different people function in different ways, and just because Pearl Jam are sloppy drunks on stage (hell, I always thought they were pretty sloppy anyway, but maybe it is just the alcohol) doesn't suggest anyany intoxicated act is going to be crappy. I suspect far more performers have had a few before going on stage than you realize.

That said, if I were advising people on drug intake, I'd strongly suggest avoiding alcohol, cocaine, speed or opiates of any kind, especially heroin. But whether they produce good work on substance abuse or not is a matter for case-by-case assessment.

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Who is simply contrived.

It's good to see someone say that. All I've heard for the last year or so is Joss Stone this and Joss Stone that, and when I finally got a chance to hear her, I thought she had a decent voice and some of the most predictable, plastic delivery I've ever heard. I can't believe England's not crawling with 3000 amorphous, programmed singers just like her.

It was interesting to see her on Live Earth in proximity of someone like Fergie. Whatever you think of her talent, Fergie on stage is spontaneous and lively, and looked like she was having fun. Joss Stone just looked like she was trying to remember how to sing and move her feet in the same combinations she practiced in rehearsal.

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

her job is to make music for people.

Mmmm... no. Her job is to make the music she wants to make. "People" only get to decide on it after the fact.

- Grant

[mattx110]

It's good to see someone say that. All I've heard for the last year or so is Joss Stone this and Joss Stone that, and when I finally got a chance to hear her, I thought she had a decent voice and some of the most predictable, plastic delivery I've ever heard. I can't believe England's not crawling with 3000 amorphous, programmed singers just like her.

It was interesting to see her on Live Earth in proximity of someone like Fergie. Whatever you think of her talent, Fergie on stage is spontaneous and lively, and looked like she was having fun. Joss Stone just looked like she was trying to remember how to sing and move her feet in the same combinations she practiced in rehearsal.

- Grant
well, i guess you do enjoy drunk artists more... and i guess practicing isn't worth the effort.

and i've never heard anyone in interview so nervous about stepping on toes and coming off as false as stone. if i were to go start a rock group reminiscent of the 50s or 60s would i be called trite and contrived because that's what i grew up listening to? is bryan setzer contrived and not a natural blonde?

being an alcoholic might help you relate to a singer, but it doesn't make that any more real than a sober singer. and whinehouse looked to me like a nervous squirrel making random body motions off-tempo with what she was singing. i've met people that think they perform better high or drunk, and it's a myth. enjoying someone that is supposed to be a professional being drunk on stage is exactly like watching a trained monkey on stage. you care as much about actions and odd body language as the music. a real musician wouldn't let that be a distraction. too many musicians start off taking an antidepressant with a beer to stay calm during a performance and wind up ruining their lives. it's just very depressing to me.

and glastonbury seemed less impressive than i thought it'd be this year... i mean, i'd still love to go, but i thought it'd be a broader range.

[mattx110]

Mmmm... no. Her job is to make the music she wants to make. "People" only get to decide on it after the fact.

- Grant

whether it's what she wants to make or not is irrelevent. she works under contract to entertain people. i'm happy for her if she plays the music she wants to. she should be able to.

[Spike-X]

"Dance, monkey! No, not like that. Like that other monkey over there!"

[Superbeast]

I've met Ms Winehouse twice and both times she was a bragging, obnxious drunk idiot with a terrible laugh that'd make Fran Drescher's jaw drop. I also think it's amusing she writes her lyrics and then tells her band to write a song to fit it, rather than the conventional mutual genesis of the music of the band jamming inspiring the lyricist. It's almost sad she's more eloquent in her lyrics than she is in person. She also doesn't think she should buy drinks for the people who's drinks she consumes without noticing or knocks over. her husband is a total dickhead who thinks more of his own drug addict ass than anyone else around Camden does. Between the two of them and Kelly Osbourne, I hope someone torches the Devonshire Arms while they're in it. They think they're security guards put them above everyone else and they fall back on them whenever they act out of line. It's fucking pathetic. If you want to drink with us regular folk, do so, don't do so behind 6 massive guys in suits while being dicks to the other customers.

Joss Stone was a record company project for many years and her career started in a petri dish, she's as soulful as a zombie and as sincere as a one night stand, her singing talent may be great but her actual lyrical skills are lacking. When your first single is a cover, I think that says a lot about how much you have to say as a new artist.

Lily Allen's parents have never left her wanting for anything, she just slummed it for a couple of years to be "real" in the same way assholes like Jack Penate or, going way back, Damon Albarn put on "mockney" accents. She's since changed her accent and habits. It amuses me she sunk below her station for validation first before changing her behaviour when she had to act professionally for her own financial benefit. It's total typical teen angst rebellion bullshit she's then twisted around to appeal to a wider market, even though she lambasts those she once aspired to fit in with.

Kate Nash needs to learn to sing. I don't hear any other singers accentuating their accents. I sing myself and I'm from London and have lived in and around it my whole life, but I aspire to Jeff Buckley, not Sham 69 for obvious reasons.

I suggest anyone with half a brain have a listen to the merciless but very true "LDN is a Victim" which is the Hit 'Em Up of the London Indie Mockney scene.

I personally think it's sad we have talents like Patrick Wolf who are genuinely diverse and intelligent musical talents that end up overshadowed by these avatars of an insincere movement born out of The Libertines and The Streets frankly over hyped but sub par efforts. When Mike Skinner is getting awards while groups like Mud Fam and Terra Firma are struggling for recognition, it's a goddamn shame and indictment of the superficiality of the UK music scene. If in doubt, ask 'A' or The Cooper Temple Clause.

[Charles RB]

The Sun loves Winehouse

You were doing such a good job of promoting her, only to piss it all away here! :(


Whatever you think of her talent, Fergie on stage is spontaneous and lively, and looked like she was having fun.

Possibly, but I don't see why I should count that in her favour when I think she has no musical talent. The talent is why I'd want to see her on stage.

[mattx110]

I've met Ms Winehouse twice and both times she was a bragging, obnxious drunk idiot with a terrible laugh that'd make Fran Drescher's jaw drop. I also think it's amusing she writes her lyrics and then tells her band to write a song to fit it, rather than the conventional mutual genesis of the music of the band jamming inspiring the lyricist. It's almost sad she's more eloquent in her lyrics than she is in person. She also doesn't think she should buy drinks for the people who's drinks she consumes without noticing or knocks over. her husband is a total dickhead who thinks more of his own drug addict ass than anyone else around Camden does. Between the two of them and Kelly Osbourne, I hope someone torches the Devonshire Arms while they're in it. They think they're security guards put them above everyone else and they fall back on them whenever they act out of line. It's fucking pathetic. If you want to drink with us regular folk, do so, don't do so behind 6 massive guys in suits while being dicks to the other customers.

Joss Stone was a record company project for many years and her career started in a petri dish, she's as soulful as a zombie and as sincere as a one night stand, her singing talent may be great but her actual lyrical skills are lacking. When your first single is a cover, I think that says a lot about how much you have to say as a new artist.

Lily Allen's parents have never left her wanting for anything, she just slummed it for a couple of years to be "real" in the same way assholes like Jack Penate or, going way back, Damon Albarn put on "mockney" accents. She's since changed her accent and habits. It amuses me she sunk below her station for validation first before changing her behaviour when she had to act professionally for her own financial benefit. It's total typical teen angst rebellion bullshit she's then twisted around to appeal to a wider market, even though she lambasts those she once aspired to fit in with.

Kate Nash needs to learn to sing. I don't hear any other singers accentuating their accents. I sing myself and I'm from London and have lived in and around it my whole life, but I aspire to Jeff Buckley, not Sham 69 for obvious reasons.

I suggest anyone with half a brain have a listen to the merciless but very true "LDN is a Victim" which is the Hit 'Em Up of the London Indie Mockney scene.

I personally think it's sad we have talents like Patrick Wolf who are genuinely diverse and intelligent musical talents that end up overshadowed by these avatars of an insincere movement born out of The Libertines and The Streets frankly over hyped but sub par efforts. When Mike Skinner is getting awards while groups like Mud Fam and Terra Firma are struggling for recognition, it's a goddamn shame and indictment of the superficiality of the UK music scene. If in doubt, ask 'A' or The Cooper Temple Clause.

1. as literally every good singer ever has shown, there's nothing wrong with singing a composition someone else wrote. bob dylan covered john hiatt's "the usual". that doesn't mean dylan is bad at anything, but that he respects hiatt and likes the song enough to record it. norah jones gets flack from the rock crowd for not writing her own material, not understanding that her singing and arranging shows more talent than the average rock band writing simple songs about their over-bearing girlfriends and drinking all night.

bands have started out "writing songs" because they didn't have the discipline to learn a song. and yes, they took being unable to form 3 chords and sing a melody line as a point of pride.
2. lily Allen never pretended to be a little poor girl that i've ever seen, and given Keith Allen's career, i don't think it's possible to hide from that. maybe he's not so big with the young crowd, but i don't see how she can pretend she came from poverty or anything. i'm not sure she did pretend.
3. i dunno kate nash, but she's got a nice name.
4. i agree with you on everything else your wrote, from artificial artistry replacing more able versatile acts, to fed-upness with drug and alcohol culture being glorified when it's so obvious the harm it does. and these idiots get work while being in tabloids for being drunk and disorderly or being arrested on drug charge after drug charge.

[king mob]

It's good to see someone say that. All I've heard for the last year or so is Joss Stone this and Joss Stone that, and when I finally got a chance to hear her, I thought she had a decent voice and some of the most predictable, plastic delivery I've ever heard. I can't believe England's not crawling with 3000 amorphous, programmed singers just like her.

It was interesting to see her on Live Earth in proximity of someone like Fergie. Whatever you think of her talent, Fergie on stage is spontaneous and lively, and looked like she was having fun. Joss Stone just looked like she was trying to remember how to sing and move her feet in the same combinations she practiced in rehearsal.

- Grant

The UK has dozens upon dozens of stage school brats trying to launch a career off the back of an Eastenders stint, a spell in the Big Brother house, shagging a footballer or whatever gets them some press. We're full of them but fortunately Stone is too 2004 and it's Lily Allen clones that are this year's in'thing.

[king mob]

well, i guess you do enjoy drunk artists more... and i guess practicing isn't worth the effort.

Come on Matt, Steve never said that did he.


and i've never heard anyone in interview so nervous about stepping on toes and coming off as false as stone.

Because she's probably forgotten her script.




and glastonbury seemed less impressive than i thought it'd be this year... i mean, i'd still love to go, but i thought it'd be a broader range.

Avoid the Pyramid Stage (which has become far too mainstream) and you'll be fine.

[mattx110]

Come on Matt, Steve never said that did he.



Because she's probably forgotten her script.





Avoid the Pyramid Stage (which has become far too mainstream) and you'll be fine.

that's why i bolded "someone like fergie". it was a joke.
and joss stone can sing. which is more than i can say for a good number of her colleagues. plus, i'm gonna be upset at a kid for working with a record company and being marketed? again, if she sucked i'd just find her annoying.
and "rehab" and allen's "smile" have the most annoyingly repetitive choruses ever in song, is that a british thing or do you guys have verses there too?

[king mob]

I've met Ms Winehouse twice and both times she was a bragging, obnxious drunk idiot with a terrible laugh that'd make Fran Drescher's jaw drop. I also think it's amusing she writes her lyrics and then tells her band to write a song to fit it, rather than the conventional mutual genesis of the music of the band jamming inspiring the lyricist. It's almost sad she's more eloquent in her lyrics than she is in person. She also doesn't think she should buy drinks for the people who's drinks she consumes without noticing or knocks over. her husband is a total dickhead who thinks more of his own drug addict ass than anyone else around Camden does. Between the two of them and Kelly Osbourne, I hope someone torches the Devonshire Arms while they're in it. They think they're security guards put them above everyone else and they fall back on them whenever they act out of line. It's fucking pathetic. If you want to drink with us regular folk, do so, don't do so behind 6 massive guys in suits while being dicks to the other customers.

Don't drink in shite Camden pubs? The thing about her writing lyrics & getting her band to help with music is rather common.


Joss Stone was a record company project for many years and her career started in a petri dish, she's as soulful as a zombie and as sincere as a one night stand, her singing talent may be great but her actual lyrical skills are lacking. When your first single is a cover, I think that says a lot about how much you have to say as a new artist.

Don't knock one night stands, they're more fun than listening to Joss Stone.


Lily Allen's parents have never left her wanting for anything, she just slummed it for a couple of years to be "real" in the same way assholes like Jack Penate or, going way back, Damon Albarn put on "mockney" accents. She's since changed her accent and habits. It amuses me she sunk below her station for validation first before changing her behaviour when she had to act professionally for her own financial benefit. It's total typical teen angst rebellion bullshit she's then twisted around to appeal to a wider market, even though she lambasts those she once aspired to fit in with.

To be fair to Lily Allen she's never really pretended to be anything more than she is; this happens to include being Keith Allen's daughter She does her own little thing & although I'm no fan, she genuinely seems to love ska & reggae & isn't dropping it in her work to seem hip & trendy.


Kate Nash needs to learn to sing. I don't hear any other singers accentuating their accents. I sing myself and I'm from London and have lived in and around it my whole life, but I aspire to Jeff Buckley, not Sham 69 for obvious reasons.

Why, is Buckley a more credible name to drop than Sham 69? Sham 69 were plastic punks but why should every British singer aspire to sing in American accents? The Proclaimers for example have made a long & profitable career out of singing in their own accents.




I personally think it's sad we have talents like Patrick Wolf who are genuinely diverse and intelligent musical talents that end up overshadowed by these avatars of an insincere movement born out of The Libertines and The Streets frankly over hyped but sub par efforts. When Mike Skinner is getting awards while groups like Mud Fam and Terra Firma are struggling for recognition, it's a goddamn shame and indictment of the superficiality of the UK music scene. If in doubt, ask 'A' or The Cooper Temple Clause.

This is the 'well, The Libertines were vastly overhyped & were just ripping off the Clash', mixed with 'The Streets won awards, that's not very credible' argument. Both bands gave the British mainstream a good, hard kick up the arse at a time when it needed it. Ok, it never really ended up in a new Golden Age but it showed us what could be done.

And The Cooper Temple Clause are a decent band, but that's it. They're not this great lost talent struggling against The Man.

[king mob]

and joss stone can sing. which is more than i can say for a good number of her colleagues. plus, i'm gonna be upset at a kid for working with a record company and being marketed? again, if she sucked i'd just find her annoying.

So do you like her music; hows she's been marketed or her percieved lack of drink & drugs? Is this where I point out she's a 'party girl'?


and "rehab" and allen's "smile" have the most annoyingly repetitive choruses ever in song, is that a british thing or do you guys have verses there too?

Oh please, you have Christina Aguilera.

[jessecuster3]

Are you being sarcastic?

Jimi Hendrix
Jim Morrison
Janice Joplin
Kurt Cobain
Elvis

Where is Shannon Hoon, Bradley Nowell, and Layne Staley?

[mattx110]

So do you like her music; hows she's been marketed or her percieved lack of drink & drugs? Is this where I point out she's a 'party girl'?



Oh please, you have Christina Aguilera.

she can be a party girl all she wants. but i haven't seen her wacked out of her mind on national tv broadcast. a little professionalism goes a long way. i don't care about the marketing, and i miss a lot of it with my radio broken and selective tv watching. she can sing well regardless of whether or not a producer decided she's the next big thing.

and aguilera sings well. it's too bad she's such a skanky skank skank. and yea, that fricken "Candyman etc. repeat etc." thing got old fast. and don't worry about state/country rivalries, some of my favorite singers are british, but this pop trend of all chorus for a good 3/4 of the song, i don't like it.

and apparently whinehouse doesn't write music... just extremely repetitive poetry that the band she borrowed from new yorker sharon jones comes up with music for. so if you insist on liking whinehouse, at least you get a good band in your ears too.

and jesse, none of those guys are on the level of cult fanaticism as elvis or hendrix. they might be good ammo for a discussion, but they aren't the tier one of drug/alcohol burnouts.

[Dennis]

alcohol reveals the real you. when a nice guy gets drunk and acts like an asshole, that means he's really an asshole. and i've heard stories of assholes who act nice when they're drunk. so drugs can be a very good thing. if someone is a perfectionist who wants to please the crowd, then alcohol might help her give a great performance. but if they don't care, then alcohol will reveal just that. i'm talking about moderation. excess is not good.

i wonder if the same thing is true with steroids. what if there's such a thing as "roid kindness".

i wonder if british comic book creators are better because they drink. i don't know if they really are drinkers, that's just what i picture. i've heard good things about smoking too.

there was a major league pitcher who threw a no-hitter while on LSD.

name a great guitar player who doesn't drink.

[mattx110]

alcohol reveals the real you. when a nice guy gets drunk and acts like an asshole, that means he's really an asshole. and i've heard stories of assholes who act nice when they're drunk. so drugs can be a very good thing. if someone is a perfectionist who wants to please the crowd, then alcohol might help her give a great performance. but if they don't care, then alcohol will reveal just that. i'm talking about moderation. excess is not good.

i wonder if the same thing is true with steroids. what if there's such a thing as "roid kindness".

i wonder if british comic book creators are better because they drink. i don't know if they really are drinkers, that's just what i picture. i've heard good things about smoking too.

there was a major league pitcher who threw a no-hitter while on LSD.

name a great guitar player who doesn't drink.

chet atkins, joe pass, kenny burrell, bill frisell, jerry douglas, bucky pizzarelli, john pizzarelli, tommy emmanuel, earl klugh, derek trucks, doc watson, pete anderson, eric johnson, jim hall, john knowles, johnny smith, arthur smith, kazuhito yamashita, pat martino, have never appeared drunk on stage (or at least never made a habit out of it to the degree where it became a selling point). and i'm sure there's tons more of that number.

lowell george died of a drug overdose, danny gatton struggled with alcoholism and shot himself, stevie ray vaughan was strung out for a good amount of his life and the time he was sober was the best of his life, jimi hendrix died a drug-related death, lenny breau struggled with drug and alcohol addiction for a good amount of his life and put himself in abusive relationships that got him killed, jeff beck cleaned up and is now a vegetarian and healthier and more musical than he ever was in his drinking days. steve earle is also healthier than at any time in his life, and he's not a bad guitar player. you have to look carefully but he's better than the regular singer/songwriter.

people are more than their base instincts and unabridged drunken rants.
and if someone needs alcohol to be able to perform or "act themselves" they've become dependant on a substance that causes liver damage, has less effect the more you use it, and has been known to cause blackouts and other health problems.

i'm not worried about the person that knows their limit, and you're right moderation is the key. but nobody is out here in favor of prohibition.

maybe i'm an odd case, but the only thing i've ever gotten from alcohol was a headache, i've never had an urge to tell the truth or reach a new level of enlightenment to aid in my music creation.

[dancj]

Where is Shannon Hoon, Bradley Nowell, and Layne Staley?
Who? I've never heard of any of them.

[jessecuster3]

Who? I've never heard of any of them.

Blind Melon, Sublime, and Alice in Chains, these were probably the 3 biggest musicians' ODing deaths of the 90's.

[Steven Grant]

Blind Melon, Sublime, and Alice in Chains, these were probably the 3 biggest musicians' ODing deaths of the 90's.

I guess that tells us something about '90s music, doesn't it...?

- Grant

[Charles RB]

What's that then?

[Superbeast]

Don't drink in shite Camden pubs? The thing about her writing lyrics & getting her band to help with music is rather common.



Don't knock one night stands, they're more fun than listening to Joss Stone.



To be fair to Lily Allen she's never really pretended to be anything more than she is; this happens to include being Keith Allen's daughter She does her own little thing & although I'm no fan, she genuinely seems to love ska & reggae & isn't dropping it in her work to seem hip & trendy.



Why, is Buckley a more credible name to drop than Sham 69? Sham 69 were plastic punks but why should every British singer aspire to sing in American accents? The Proclaimers for example have made a long & profitable career out of singing in their own accents.



This is the 'well, The Libertines were vastly overhyped & were just ripping off the Clash', mixed with 'The Streets won awards, that's not very credible' argument. Both bands gave the British mainstream a good, hard kick up the arse at a time when it needed it. Ok, it never really ended up in a new Golden Age but it showed us what could be done.

And The Cooper Temple Clause are a decent band, but that's it. They're not this great lost talent struggling against The Man.

I don't drink up Camden too often but it's rammed with totty on the weekend so it only makes sense to drop in every couple of months. I actually prefer the Barfly personally.

I'm not saying British artists should sound American. However there are many British talents that can actually sing very well but don't necessarily get the attention the new mockney wave are receiving. Camera Obscura, The Cribs and Snow Patrol don't go out of their way to emphasise their accents when they sing so I don't know why London singers are trying to emphasise theirs. Winehouse has no discernable accent while Kate Nash does. Jamie T talks normally on the radio but suddenly develops a Dick Van Dyke out of Mary Poppins accent when he is on stage. Jack Penate is the same. It's just stupid in my opinion. Sing with your heart, not your accent. Matt Bellamy of Muse has a fantastic vocal range and no evident accent. Same goes for Martin Grech and David Caggiari of Apartment. I don't aspire to sound American either, I just try to sing well in a technically proficient manner and that doesn't vary from country to country much, an Italian alto won't usually sound that different from a British or Spanish one. When you have girls like Lady Ny singing clearly despite their heavy London accents while Kate Nash amps her up, it just seems like a gimmick to me. I think it's different when you're talking about bands like the Proclaimers, The Pogues or Dubliners who are, let's be honest, not the best singers technically even though they write some bloody good songs. I don't think I can think of anyone of them attempting to hit high notes except on the Proclaimers "Letter From America".

Lily's early press made a big deal of her teenage struggles, but of course that changed when other details came out. She was doing the Lohan thing before Lohan made it headline news. Bragging about selling weed and sleeping with your ex's mates as revenge when you've came from well to do parents, a top class paid for education and get to hang with London's high society at private members only clubs most of us will never even get considered for seems like pointless rebellion. Of course the girl has done good for herself with her album but I can't help but be a little jealous and incredulous in equal measures. It's also a little odd she wrote an entire song about her brother Alfie being a pot head who let's weed get in the way of living a normal life while then blaming her own weed use for her inability to remember her lyrics onstage. I think she's all kinds of contradictions myself but the controversy that results does her a lot of good. No publicity is bad publicity and all that jazz.

I really never understood why the Libertines, Babyshambles or Dirty Pretty Things got the hype they did. I couldn't give a crap about The Streets winning awards. I've been to Birmingham many a time, went up a couple of months ago to see a mate at uni actually, and I didn't hear any cockney accents except those that belonged to other out of towners like myself. To go from Brum to Cockney is like me using Jamaican patois from tomorrow onwards. Also his second album lyrically is very patchy, he's like a UK version of Mobb Deep's Prodigy with his habit of not finishing bars with rhymes on a regular basis. If you're going to MC, at least put the effort in to play by the rules.

Anyone else really dislike Katie Melua? If Norah Jones is considered boring, Melua is pure narcolepsy on CD.

[mattx110]

It's also a little odd she wrote an entire song about her brother Alfie being a pot head who let's weed get in the way of living a normal life while then blaming her own weed use for her inability to remember her lyrics onstage.


i think that's kinda appropriate, a bit hypocritical, but not really contradictory.

[Superbeast]

i think that's kinda appropriate, a bit hypocritical, but not really contradictory.

Listen to her song "Everything's Just Wonderful" and put it in perspective given her bio. It doesn't make sense. I find it hard to believe anyone who has a mother on a six figure salary dating as a TV/film producer who dates well known celebrities/millionaires like Harry Enfield who fronts the money for her son and daughter to go on holiday with their dad would end up with bad credit or lack money if they are also flipping oz's to stoners. It's like one guy I know who makes good money, has a nice car, private education, lives at home in a seperate wing of the house from his parents but he still flips pies to "stay street and be real".

There's this epidemic of well to do and middle class kids choosing to act ignorant and deny their upbringings in the hopes it will give them individuality and personal depth. Much like grunge way back when and nu metal shortly afterwards. I suppose in America it's the same with wiggas and emo kids except we get girls dressing like they are half ballerina/half gypsy and guys wanting to be either members of The Strokes, The Klaxons or G-Unit. Unfortunately now is emerging this cross between the Cure's fans and this odd ballet/gypsy chic. God only knows how that will end up. Probably like shell suits given a year or so.

[mattx110]

Listen to her song "Everything's Just Wonderful" and put it in perspective given her bio. It doesn't make sense. I find it hard to believe anyone who has a mother on a six figure salary dating as a TV/film producer who dates well known celebrities/millionaires like Harry Enfield who fronts the money for her son and daughter to go on holiday with their dad would end up with bad credit or lack money if they are also flipping oz's to stoners. It's like one guy I know who makes good money, has a nice car, private education, lives at home in a seperate wing of the house from his parents but he still flips pies to "stay street and be real".

There's this epidemic of well to do and middle class kids choosing to act ignorant and deny their upbringings in the hopes it will give them individuality and personal depth. Much like grunge way back when and nu metal shortly afterwards. I suppose in America it's the same with wiggas and emo kids except we get girls dressing like they are half ballerina/half gypsy and guys wanting to be either members of The Strokes, The Klaxons or G-Unit. Unfortunately now is emerging this cross between the Cure's fans and this odd ballet/gypsy chic. God only knows how that will end up. Probably like shell suits given a year or so.

i'm just glad someone with enough money for the really messed up drugs settled on pot.

[dancj]

Blind Melon, Sublime, and Alice in Chains, these were probably the 3 biggest musicians' ODing deaths of the 90's.
The name "Alice in Chains" rings a vague bell, but I've never heard of the other two.

I think it's different when you're talking about bands like the Proclaimers, The Pogues or Dubliners who are, let's be honest, not the best singers technically even though they write some bloody good songs. I don't think I can think of anyone of them attempting to hit high notes except on the Proclaimers "Letter From America".
And that's why being a technically good singer is so unimportant next to putting a bit of oomph into it. Give me Shane McGowan over Kat McPhee any day of the week

[Superbeast]

i'm just glad someone with enough money for the really messed up drugs settled on pot.

Kate Moss and Lindsay Lohan missed than memo.


And that's why being a technically good singer is so unimportant next to putting a bit of oomph into it. Give me Shane McGowan over Kat McPhee any day of the week

I think when it comes to folk, the lines blur. Dylan can't sing a note but no one will dispute his musical legacy. Same goes for The Pogues, Nick Cave, The Dubliners, Fairport Convention and others really. If they didn't make such great music then it might be a problem that their singers can't actually sing.

[mattx110]

Kate Moss and Lindsay Lohan missed than memo.



I think when it comes to folk, the lines blur. Dylan can't sing a note but no one will dispute his musical legacy. Same goes for The Pogues, Nick Cave, The Dubliners, Fairport Convention and others really. If they didn't make such great music then it might be a problem that their singers can't actually sing.

those two need to get over themselves and have some priorities.

and sandy denny could sing, fairport always made sure to have at least one person that was a good singer at all times. thompson took a while to get used to his voice, but he's not bad. nick cave can sing pretty well.

dylan wasn't as bad as people think. he started out singing quite prettily, then wanted to get more woody guthrie like, then had his mumbles phase, and now he's got this old blues singer thing going that his voice is good for.

and if regardless of technique you always went for the music with emotional resonance, wouldn't you listen to a lot more opera? you need to be a strong singer and to emote or you don't get work. you're not just singing, but acting. i kinda like snow patrol, but i have a hard time with most singers that can't really sing.

[Superbeast]

those two need to get over themselves and have some priorities.

and sandy denny could sing, fairport always made sure to have at least one person that was a good singer at all times. thompson took a while to get used to his voice, but he's not bad. nick cave can sing pretty well.

dylan wasn't as bad as people think. he started out singing quite prettily, then wanted to get more woody guthrie like, then had his mumbles phase, and now he's got this old blues singer thing going that his voice is good for.

and if regardless of technique you always went for the music with emotional resonance, wouldn't you listen to a lot more opera? you need to be a strong singer and to emote or you don't get work. you're not just singing, but acting. i kinda like snow patrol, but i have a hard time with most singers that can't really sing.

I do enjoy opera on occasion, although really have taken a shine to bhangra and mamba more recently. Yma Sumac blows my mind with her range.

Nick Cave has one of "those" voices like Johnny Cash, Teddy Pendergrass or John Lee Hooker that has an authority to it. It's hard not to listen when they are on a record for fear they'll bitchslap you through your speakers for not paying attention.

[Mikl C]

Try "Tears Dry on their own". Great song.

[king mob]

I really never understood why the Libertines, Babyshambles or Dirty Pretty Things got the hype they did.

The Libertines were the first time in years you heard an articulate 'mainstream' British indie band attempt to actually say something of any content beyond 'I luv you'. They were a band with bollocks who wore their faults for people to see: this was not a nice clean cut bunch of lads turning out Indie By Numbers.


I couldn't give a crap about The Streets winning awards. I've been to Birmingham many a time, went up a couple of months ago to see a mate at uni actually, and I didn't hear any cockney accents except those that belonged to other out of towners like myself.

Skinner is a Londoner originally & he flips between accents, especially when performing live.

[king mob]

There's this epidemic of well to do and middle class kids choosing to act ignorant and deny their upbringings in the hopes it will give them individuality and personal depth. Much like grunge way back when and nu metal shortly afterwards. I suppose in America it's the same with wiggas and emo kids except we get girls dressing like they are half ballerina/half gypsy and guys wanting to be either members of The Strokes, The Klaxons or G-Unit. Unfortunately now is emerging this cross between the Cure's fans and this odd ballet/gypsy chic. God only knows how that will end up. Probably like shell suits given a year or so.

Have you considered the chance that these middle class kids (not all of them mind) are actually trying to forge themselves their own bit of individuallity?

[king mob]

dylan wasn't as bad as people think. he started out singing quite prettily, then wanted to get more woody guthrie like, then had his mumbles phase, and now he's got this old blues singer thing going that his voice is good for.

I agree, Dylan could sing (lets not mention his efforts over the last decade or so) but never had a traditionally pretty voice.


i kinda like snow patrol, but i have a hard time with most singers that can't really sing.

Ian Brown couldn't sing but The Stone Roses were still magnificent due to the band's music & songs working so bloody well. Plus Brown was the only person who could (and can) perform those songs.

Snow Patrol are the sort of 'Indie By Number's I refered to. Yes everything is there apart from any genuine passion for what they're doing.

[Superbeast]

Have you considered the chance that these middle class kids (not all of them mind) are actually trying to forge themselves their own bit of individuallity?

Possibly, but by following everyone else I don't see how. I'd argue the trendsetters who first started wearing such outfits are the individuals, the rest are simply trying to be individuals by replicating someone else's look, not realising that being an individual means just that, separate from the maddening crowd and it's typical tastes.

As for Snow Patrol doing Indie By Numbers, the dudes did the hard slog of the indie scene for 9 years before they got their big break and major label deal. I'd argue that they evolved into a more commerical entity over time but that their original work was far from Indie By Numbers. However you bring up Signal Fire and it's shitty video, I'll totally back you up on the fact they aren't at all what they once were.

I still am waiting for the day Skinnyman knocks out Mike Skinner. If he flips between regional inflections it just shows he's mastered the art which doesn't exactly convince me he's on the straight and narrow image wise. Plus, I really can't excuse his lyrical failings. That thing he did over Block Party's "Banquet" was poor and I sat through Mobb Deep on Rap City on BET.

[TheLazy]

SNIP.

You had me until "the streets". Skinner's self satire of British culture is probably as close as you'll ever get to 'truth' in music.


Things got the hype they did. I couldn't give a crap about The Streets winning awards. I've been to Birmingham many a time, went up a couple of months ago to see a mate at uni actually, and I didn't hear any cockney accents except those that belonged to other out of towners like myself. To go from Brum to Cockney is like me using Jamaican patois from tomorrow onwards. Also his second album lyrically is very patchy, he's like a UK version of Mobb Deep's Prodigy with his habit of not finishing bars with rhymes on a regular basis. If you're going to MC, at least put the effort in to play by the rules.
.

Not playing by the rules is usually applauded, it's called being atypical.


. However you bring up Signal Fire and it's shitty video,.

Seriously?

Signal fire, whilst a mediocre if hum-able song has one of the best music videos this decade (and century and millennium strangely enough;) ).

[king mob]

Possibly, but by following everyone else I don't see how. I'd argue the trendsetters who first started wearing such outfits are the individuals, the rest are simply trying to be individuals by replicating someone else's look, not realising that being an individual means just that, separate from the maddening crowd and it's typical tastes.

You'll always have scenesters, & yes they've increased in numbers over the years but there's a number of 'middle class' types trying to break from the norm. The problem is that we're dominated by a London-centric music press & therefore have a rather skewed view of what is actually going on.


As for Snow Patrol doing Indie By Numbers, the dudes did the hard slog of the indie scene for 9 years before they got their big break and major label deal. I'd argue that they evolved into a more commerical entity over time but that their original work was far from Indie By Numbers.

They came in on the fag-end of Britpop & tried to get Embrace's fanbase, you can't get more mundane than Embrace. Ok, they worked their bollocks off but they're nothing more than a standard mainstream Indie band with nothing very exciting to say.




I still am waiting for the day Skinnyman knocks out Mike Skinner. If he flips between regional inflections it just shows he's mastered the art which doesn't exactly convince me he's on the straight and narrow image wise. Plus, I really can't excuse his lyrical failings. That thing he did over Block Party's "Banquet" was poor and I sat through Mobb Deep on Rap City on BET.

There's an interview on the DVD of Julien Temple's 'Glastonbury' documentary with the late John Peel. In it he describes how The White Stripes drew upon multiple influences from different genres, while most British acts looked no further than Oasis or Blur and Britpop.

Skinner draws upon a huge number of influences from the US & UK, & mixes it with a vision of Britain you rarely see portrayed in anything but a negative light. This is what sets The Streets apart from the majority of NME approved second generation Britpop Indie.

[Perry Holley]

Winehouse cancels North American tour (http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070822&cat=news&st=newsd8r624jg0&src=ap)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Winehouse cancels North American tour (http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070822&cat=news&st=newsd8r624jg0&src=ap)

I saw a picture of her and what she looked like awhile back. Cleary she's on more than alcohal and is pretty much on harder drugs and she looks like shit. I'll be honest... she's a crackwhore.

This "sever exhaustion" should read .. "Amy loves crack , and well she won't admit she has a problem."

[Steven Grant]

Technically, a crackhead isn't a crackwhore. A crackhead is someone who smokes or otherwise uses crack.

A crackwhore is someone who trades sex for crack.

- Grant

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Technically, a crackhead isn't a crackwhore. A crackhead is someone who smokes or otherwise uses crack.

A crackwhore is someone who trades sex for crack.

- Grant

LOL.... well do we have to get all technical here. I mean judging from an older pic , Amy was a fine looking woman. But damn if she didn't go and just ruin herself .

[Steven Grant]

And that's John Morrison who lives, not Jim.

Honestly, while I personally love the bit, how imbedded is Jim Morrison in the popular psyche? How many of the WWE's fans have a clue what he's supposed to be on about? Seems kind of silly to shift gimmicks when there was nothing wrong with the Johnny Nitro gimmick... esp. when the gimmick that replaces it is relatively obscure... Wait, Bobby Heenan isn't doing their booking now, is he?

- Grant

[king mob]

Winehouse cancels North American tour (http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070822&cat=news&st=newsd8r624jg0&src=ap)


She's fucked up. She needs to cope with transfering from being a small-ish cult figure (when Rehab first surfaced this time last year most folk were fucking stunned by it) to being a massive critical & commercial success.

I want to see her headline Glastonbury 2008 instead of being a regular in the tabloids. She will, but she's a example of the new puritanism in the UK regarding drugs & thats just rubbish.

[mattx110]

She's fucked up. She needs to cope with transfering from being a small-ish cult figure (when Rehab first surfaced this time last year most folk were fucking stunned by it) to being a massive critical & commercial success.
I want to see her headline Glastonbury 2008 instead of being a regular in the tabloids. She will, but she's a example of the new puritanism in the UK regarding drugs & thats just rubbish.

i think it might have more to do with cleaning out her system of the narcotic substances than how much success she's having.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And that's John Morrison who lives, not Jim.

Honestly, while I personally love the bit, how imbedded is Jim Morrison in the popular psyche? How many of the WWE's fans have a clue what he's supposed to be on about? Seems kind of silly to shift gimmicks when there was nothing wrong with the Johnny Nitro gimmick... esp. when the gimmick that replaces it is relatively obscure... Wait, Bobby Heenan isn't doing their booking now, is he?

- Grant

Its starting to catch some heat as Morrison's dropping down lines like the whole "Palace of Wisdom" and calling his fans The Belivers. Plus it doesn't hurt that he looks like Jim Morrison. :p

[king mob]

i think it might have more to do with cleaning out her system of the narcotic substances than how much success she's having.

Of course but you can't disregard the fact that this time last year she was a footnote to the Jazz revival made popular by Jamie Cullum in the early noughties. Now she's one of the biggest acts around. That can't be easy to deal with.

[mattx110]

Of course but you can't disregard the fact that this time last year she was a footnote to the Jazz revival made popular by Jamie Cullum in the early noughties. Now she's one of the biggest acts around. That can't be easy to deal with.

oh well, it would have been easier for her if she were a stress-eater, that way she would have gained some weight and her body could take more of what she's going through.

i promise when i get massively famous i won't go nuts.

[Steven Grant]

Its starting to catch some heat as Morrison's dropping down lines like the whole "Palace of Wisdom" and calling his fans The Belivers. Plus it doesn't hurt that he looks like Jim Morrison. :p

I don't know how much it's catching on, really. I suspect much of the audience views his seemingly random lines as a slowed down, low key version of Ultimate Warrior patter. If they know who the Ultimate Warrior is.

And he really doesn't look all that much like Jim Morrison, but he's got the hair and the clothes down right.

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

i promise when i get massively famous i won't go nuts.

Yeah, that's what they all say...

- Grant

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I don't know how much it's catching on, really. I suspect much of the audience views his seemingly random lines as a slowed down, low key version of Ultimate Warrior patter. If they know who the Ultimate Warrior is.

And he really doesn't look all that much like Jim Morrison, but he's got the hair and the clothes down right.

- Grant

I loved when CM Punk just said it best. He's there to kick his ass and not do catch phrases. I am a BELIVER damn it.

Part of me wishes they'd go full bore into the Jim Morrison experince. Have him come out threatening to expose himself. Have a group of flunkies follow him around and worship him. Have women try and jump the guard rail to have sex with him.

They could do so much awesomely funny stuff with John Morrison that its a crime they haven't yet.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yeah, that's what they all say...

- Grant

If I'm lucky enough to hit the $300 million POWERBALL jackpot tonight it won't change me at all. I'll still be the same beautiful person I always was. I'll just have a couple hundred million smackers to play with. :evilsmile

[Steven Grant]

Part of me wishes they'd go full bore into the Jim Morrison experince. Have him come out threatening to expose himself. Have a group of flunkies follow him around and worship him. Have women try and jump the guard rail to have sex with him.

They could do so much awesomely funny stuff with John Morrison that its a crime they haven't yet.

Oh, I'm down with that, believe me. I don't know if he has the chops to go whole hog with the Morrison thing, but if they really let him cut loose with it, it'd be great. But that would require them promoting the notion of mind-altering experiences, strong sexual content, etc., and I just don't see WWE doing that well... So far it has just been basically heel shtick with a few quasi-Doors lines tossed in, but he could theoretically create a whole new kind of heel with the routine...

- Grant

[king mob]

It's all getting a bit messy.


Amy Winehouse's father-in-law has urged the singer's fans to boycott her music until she seeks treatment for what he called a drug addiction.
Speaking to BBC Radio Five Live, Giles Fielder-Civil said he was concerned that Winehouse and her husband, Blake, would die without medical help.

He said: "Perhaps it is time to stop buying records. It's a possibility, to send that message."

But the singer's father, Mitch, said a boycott would not aid her recovery.

'Rock bottom'

He contacted the Victoria Derbyshire show after he heard Winehouse's in-laws being interviewed.

"It won't send any message to Amy at all, unfortunately. If I thought it would, it would be a great idea," he said.

"The only way out of this is not sectioning them, not locking them up. At some point they are going to reach rock bottom."

Recent photographs of Winehouse and Fielder-Civil appeared to show blood seeping out from her ballet shoes, while Fielder-Civil's face was covered in bloodied scratches.


As a parent it was sickening - worse than sickening, I wanted to die

Mitch Winehouse on seeing recent pictures of his daughter

When asked what he had thought of the pictures, Mitch said: "I thought that here are two people that are completely out of control."

He added: "As a parent it was sickening - worse than sickening, I wanted to die, but I can't die.

"I can't think of things like that because I have another son, I have a daughter that needs me, although she doesn't think she needs me at the moment."

Giles Fielder-Civil said he believed his son and daughter-in-law had been taking cocaine, crack cocaine and possibly heroin.

His wife, Georgette, said she feared for both Winehouse and Fielder-Civil if they continued to take drugs.

"I think they both need to get medical help before one of them, if not both of them, eventually will die," she said.

Suicide fear


"They're a very close couple and if one dies through a substance abuse, the other may commit suicide."

However, Mitch Winehouse said he had spoken to his daughter on Sunday and she sounded fine.


"We are not talking about people who are in imminent danger of death," he said.

Mr Fielder-Civil said he wants Winehouse's record company, Island Records - part of the Universal Music group, to do more.

"They could either say: 'Until you sort yourself out we're not doing any more work together,' or they take responsibility and make the pair enter a proper rehabilitation unit, where they can't leave until they're sorted out'," he said.

But Mr Winehouse said that, during a meeting with the label, some people had been "crying their eyes out because of their love for Amy".

In a statement, Island Records said: "We have been doing everything we can to help with Amy's personal problems over the past few weeks.

"She has our full support - professionally, emotionally and financially. We've advised her to take complete rest during this difficult period and have put all her promotional commitments on hold."

Mr Fielder-Civil added that Winehouse should not be eligible to win awards for her music.

"This isn't a personal affront against her, but we shouldn't be condoning her addiction by a rewarding her with these particular awards," he said.

Winehouse is currently nominated for a Mercury Music Prize, an MTV Video Music Award and four Mobo awards for her 2006 album Back To Black.





http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6966640.stm

[Spike-X]

we shouldn't be condoning her addiction by a rewarding her with these particular awards

WTF? How does winning any kind of award for music "condone" her, or anyone else's, addiction? Should we also stop putting any of the Rolling Stones' "Big Four" albums on Best Of lists because Keef was off his face on smack when they recorded them?

I know the bloke's upset and all, but that really is a nonsensical thing to say.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

WTF? How does winning any kind of award for music "condone" her, or anyone else's, addiction? Should we also stop putting any of the Rolling Stones' "Big Four" albums on Best Of lists because Keef was off his face on smack when they recorded them?

I know the bloke's upset and all, but that really is a nonsensical thing to say.

I can sense his fear and sadness. She and the husband are on a one way train to dying and she won't get off and get help. He's at the end of his rope. So he said that. You can tell its a strain watching your own child kill themselves slowly.

[king_ghidra]

on a one way train to dying

:D that's a hell of an expression

[Charles RB]

Having just seen the video of her live performance on MTV (http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/++2007/video/x3d7vt_amy-winehouse-back-to-black-live-mt_music), I'm thinking she should really go to rehab or at least not take something right before performing. Because either she's singing really incoherently and is unable to properly speak half the lyrics, or she's trying to summon one of the Great Old Ones.

[Perry Holley]

Having just seen the video of her live performance on MTV (http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/++2007/video/x3d7vt_amy-winehouse-back-to-black-live-mt_music), I'm thinking she should really go to rehab or at least not take something right before performing. Because either she's singing really incoherently and is unable to properly speak half the lyrics, or she's trying to summon one of the Great Old Ones.Dman you... now I want to rewrite the lyrics to either "Rehab" or "You Know I'm No Good" with a Lovecraftian slant.

Damn you!

[Spike-X]

"They tried to make me eat a Big Mac, I said 'No, no, no!' "

I really hope she gets her shit together, or she's gonna be dead within twelve months.

[Charles RB]

And now it's gotten worse. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071115/wl_uk_afp/entertainmentbritainmusicpeoplewinehouse)


Troubled soul singer Amy Winehouse kicked off her 17-date tour with a shambolic performance that saw fuming fans booing and marching out, reports said Thursday.

The concert at the National Indoor Arena in Birmingham, was a chance for the 24-year-old to get back to singing and put her woes behind her.

Winehouse has had "health issues" -- widely reported to be drug and alcohol abuse -- and her party-loving husband Blake Fielder-Civil is being held on grievous bodily harm and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice charges.

But Wednesday's gig at the NIA, which can hold up to 13,000 people, was slammed by angry fans as a "disgrace" after she turned up late and stumbled about the stage.

When punters started jeering, Winehouse snapped: "Let me tell you something. First of all, if you're booing, you're a mug for buying a ticket.

"Second, to all those booing, just wait till my husband gets out of incarceration -- and I mean that."

The Birmingham Mail newspaper's music critic Andy Coleman said it was "one of the saddest nights of my life".

"I saw a supremely talented artist reduced to tears, stumbling around the stage and, unforgivably, swearing at the audience," he wrote.

James Dyas demanded his money back, according to London's Evening Standard newspaper.

"She came on stage half an hour late. She managed four songs but was slurring her words and swaying all over the place," he said.

"She fell into the guitar stand and dropped the microphone -- it was atrocious. The song dedicated to her husband was so bad it was like swinging a cat round your head."

An, from Birmingham, commented on The Times newspaper's website: "Her singing was awful, out of tune and slurred. She sang for around 50 minutes -- drinking throughout.

"I have never seen so many people leave a show. 'Valerie' was my favourite song -- she massacred it!"

Pete Massera, from north-west England, added: "It was an absolutely atrocious gig. I, like many others in the audience, got our coats and left before she even finished the set."

Gary Atwell, from nearby Rugby, said "streams" of fans walked out, according to the BBC website.

"I went out for a sneaky cigarette half way through and at least 40 people left, just in that five minutes," he said.

"Valerie", the closing number, descended into chaos when Winehouse stopped singing, dropped the microphone and walked off stage.

Winehouse, named best British female solo artist at the Brit Awards in February, has rarely been out of the newspapers in recent months due to her lifestyle issues.

When you've gotten that bad, when you've got the point you physically can't perform and you're driving away audiences and essentially causing your career long term damage... At that point, maybe it'd be a good idea to go to fucking rehab and stay there.

[Spike-X]

"Hey, guys! Distract the audience with some funky dancing while I discreetly have a snort (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geY6P9NgJpY) in the middle of a song!"

[Brother Zag]

And now it's gotten worse. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071115/wl_uk_afp/entertainmentbritainmusicpeoplewinehouse)



When you've gotten that bad, when you've got the point you physically can't perform and you're driving away audiences and essentially causing your career long term damage... At that point, maybe it'd be a good idea to go to fucking rehab and stay there.

But she said No...no... no...

We were talking about A.W. at the station yesterday. One of my coworkers, our music director, had an interesting hypothesis: What if she has a debilitating case of stage fright? Seems plausible. She could be self medicating so she doesn't have to face it sober. Not that that excuses the behaviour, but it does make it sadder still. She needs help she won't allow. If it is stage fright, maybe Andy Partridge can help her? He handled it better than, o say, um, Cobain?

[Spike-X]

At least she's still capable of doing a good show now and then -


Amy Winehouse: 'This feels like the first night'

Star impresses in Glasgow after Birmingham boos
17.Nov.07 1:18pm

Amy Winehouse made a well-received return to the stage at Glasgow's Barrowlands venue last night (November 16).

The star had previously been booed by the crowd and left the stage in a temper on Wednesday (November 14) at the Birmingham's NIA.

Last night the troubled singer seemed relaxed and thanked the Scottish crowd for their positive reaction.

Taking the stage at 21:30 GMT, fifteen minutes after her planned stage time, Winehouse was greeted by huge applause and repeated chants of her name. Although she seemed nervous at first, opening songs 'Addicted' and 'Just Friends' were did not suffer from the slurred lyrics and poor timing which had dogged her last set.

The reaction seemed to buoy Winehouse, and she relaxed as the gig progressed. 'Rehab', 'Back To Black' and 'Me and Mr Jones', plus covers of Lauren Hill's 'Doo Wop (That Thing)' and Sam Cooke's 'Cupid' were delivered confidently, although Winehouse did share a laugh with the audience when she forgot the first line of 'You Know I'm No Good'.

"I might not be able to be with my Blake at the minute," she said before the closing 'Valerie', in reference to her husband Blake Fielder-Civil, who is currently incarcerated on a charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice. "But let me tell you something, my husband is the best man in the world."

Winehouse ended her set by paying tribute to the crowd.

She said: "Thank you so much for having us. I mean it, and I'm sorry I was late."

Amy Winehouse's tour continues tonight (November 17), with a second set at the Glasgow Barrowlands.