Poll: JLAvengers League: Jared_Humphery vs. element13

[Mike Smash!]

Welcome to another match of the 2007 JLAvengers League! The League is a large-scale series of battles—a tournament—where posters draft teams and pit their teams against that of other posters, and you vote to decide who wins. When voting, please consider the strategies the players have written, rather than just the team's roster.

Each match takes place in a different locale from the Marvel or DC Universe. The teams begin 100 yards away from each other. Each character is depicted as they were in the JLA/Avengers mini series (with few exceptions), and the characters have to act in character (meaning that the heroes cannot kill if they aren't normally wont to do so)

If you have any questions about the strategies, please feel free to post these questions here, and the players will answer. The match will last twenty-four hours. After that time period, the player with the largest number of votes wins.

NOTE - For your vote to count, you must have a post count of no lower than fifty.

Jared_Humphery: Cyborg Superman, Molecule Man, the Eradicator, Miss Martian, Binary, Jade, Moonstone

element13: Animal Man, Photon, Starfire, Hot Rod, Moondragon, Geo-Force, Crystal

[Mike Smash!]

Jared's strategy:


Start of the round: everyone takes to the air except Molecule Man, who is given a floating platform by Jade. Miss Martian provides telepathic defense from Moondragon as the latter is blitzed by the Eradicator. Given that he’s a sentient weapon given form it should be tough for Moondragon to assault him telepathically. Molecule Man uses his ability to control all energy to turn Photon into putty in his hands. He scatters her in all directions, effectively taking her out of the fight. If that doesn’t work, Jade ambushes her with several constructs. Now, Monica has been shown that she can assume the energy form of an Oan power ring. However, Jade’s constructs are magical, and thus outside of her range. And if THAT doesn't work, Binary uses her energy-absorbtion abilities as well as her control over the eletromagnetic spectrum to drain Photon. Binary goes all out against Starfire. Being vastly more powerful than Kory, this should have her on the ropes. Cyborg goes after Geo-Force, countering his gravity abilities by forming an anti-gravity device with his tech half. Henshaw is far faster and more versatile than Geo-Force, so this should be easy for him. Moonstone goes after Crystal, phasing through any attacks and giving her a big dose of gravitic energy blasts


Within moments: with Moondragon out, Eradicator turns his attentions towards Animal Man, launching energy blasts and superspeed punches at him.

Molecule Man turns Hot Rod to glass. Easily done, as Hot Rod isn't organic.

Miss Martian, Cyborg Superman, and Binary dogpile anyone who's still standing.

[Mike Smash!]

element's strategy:

Phase 1-all happens at the same time, the instant the fight starts
•
Hotrod surrounds the team in a force-field
•
Crystal swallows the object into the hellicarier, pulling it under the ground, and also makes a force-field around the team.

•
Moondragon puts mental shields over my entire team to protect them from Martian
•
Animal man creates 20 duplicates of himself, and each takes on the powers of gorilla grod, Miss Martian, and molecule man on the opposing team. We know he can do this because he has in the past used the abilities of super-powered individuals
•
Photon turns into radio-waves, or infrared, or ultraviolet, or anything, and ruches to Jade. If the opposing team is using a force-field, photon will be able to pass right through it, and she can move over the speed of light, so this’ll happen very fast. Once she is an inch from jade’s face, she turns into gamma rays, or electricity, or micro-waves, and takes her out. Both one of those will work, and jade doesn’t have any superhuman durability so she will be taken out by this attack. Once jade is taken out, your team has lost one of its biggest assets. Even if she isn’t taken out, she is severely weakened

PHASE 2-instantley after Phase 1

Crystal- Now we don’t know a whole lot about Megan, but what we do know is that she is very vulnerable to fire. So crystal takes it upon herself to ignite the oxygen molecules around and inside Megan causing the air inside and around her to combust, which should definitely take her out. I mean if she’s very weak to fire, and she’s getting blown up from the inside and out. This takes about three seconds, and then she goes on to help Hot Rod.

Moondragon- Considering your team no longer has any type of telepathic protection heather takes control of Binary, Moonstone, and starts to telepathically attack Molecule man. Considering she has controlled entire planets of people, this shouldn’t be overly taxing for her. So Binary and 5 animal men go to take on Cyborg Superman. Binary has been stated to be as powerful if not more powerful than the Silver Surfer, so her and these very versatile, very powerful animal men have what it takes to take down Cyborg Supes. Heather also has moonstone along with 5 animal men take on Erandicator.

Hot Rod and animal man- Hotty rushes Molecule man from one way, and the rest (10) of the animal men rush from the other way. Now all the animal men as well as Moondragon will be attacking Molecule man telepathically. Literally all that telepathic power will cause him to be very distracted, so he will have trouble concentrating on Hot Rod who will be sending bombs, lasers, and class 100 punches from all directions. Then add the fact that crystal will be joining in about 8 seconds, and she is also a very powerful molecule manipulator herself, he will definitely be outmatched. Crystal concentrates on literally boiling the blood in his body, and the scans of her controlling body temp are in my last battle, causing an earthquake under his feet, and creating 5 thing monsters to battle him physically, which those scans are also in my last battle. Now these monsters were shown to be powerful enough to hurt the actual thing. When you add in Geo-force, Starfire, 10 more animal men, he’s going down.

Geo-Force: now this guy over here just basically helps binary and Moonstone and the animal men take on Eradicator and Cyborg supes.


Starfire- she goes and takes out jade if she is even still standing, which she probably isn’t, Starfire definitely has more than enough power to take on a weakened jade, who by the way is less powerful than Starfire, which was stated in canon in the Life and Death of Donna Troy. After jade is all finished, Starfire includes herself on the assault against Molecule Man.

[Mike Smash!]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/mikegillis/TeamJared1.jpg


VS.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/mikegillis/Teamelement13.jpg

[ragnarok_2012]

I'm skeptical about Animal Man being able to mimic the powers of human beings.

Also, does Hot Rod have class 100 strength, bombs and the ability to generate force fields?

[Mike Smash!]

I'm skeptical about Animal Man being able to mimic the powers of human beings.As am I.


Also, does Hot Rod have class 100 strength, bombs and the ability to generate force fields?Well, he's got the Touch... (he's got the power...)

I'd imagine that as Hot Rod, his strength is closer to class 50-75, and it only reached 100 as Rodimus Prime. Still quite strong.

[ragnarok_2012]

As am I.

Well, he's got the Touch... (he's got the power...)

I'd imagine that as Hot Rod, his strength is closer to class 50-75, and it only reached 100 as Rodimus Prime. Still quite strong.

I have that song in my head now.

Thanks a lot.

The strength levels are certainly plausible.

I just don't remember what abilities he has. Does he have bombs? Can he generate a force field?

[Jared H.]

No way can Buddy mimic the powers of my team. None of them are linked to "The Red" in any way. Also, Buddy has never shown he can juggle other powers while duplicating bacteria. I have Morrison's run: he's mostly limited to one power at a time.

Hot Rod putting up a defensive force field around others? Where did THAT happen? And even if he could, how could it stop Eradicator in Fortress mode?

Photon's taken out by Molecule Man, who element13 failed to counter. And Crystal's move against Miss Martian can easily be countered by Molecule Man.

[rondre sleazde]

Animal Man's powers are being abused.

[Jared H.]

Animal Man's powers are being abused.

I concur.

Animal Man's power duplication requires a few things to be able to dupe another superhuman:

Said superhuman needs some connection to the Red. Bwana Beast's powers were also animal-based, and Grodd's not only a gorilla, his powers were given to him in a similar way to Buddy's. Those are the only two examples I can recall of power duplication from a superhuman using Buddy's powerset. Miss Martian has no ties whatsoever to the Earth's Morphic field(the Red), as she is from Mars. And Molecule Man isn't even from the DCU, so he won't be tied to that field either.

What's more, this fight takes place in the Marvel Universe, where there is little evidence that the Red, the source of his powers, even exists. After all, there is no Speed Force...

[Jessica Drew]

I'm skeptical about Animal Man being able to mimic the powers of human beings.


Same here, but I'll wait to see if element 13 has some sort of explanation.

[element13]

1) the Red consists of any orgamism that has ever touched the earth, and in 52, Buddy got an upgrade where he could take the abilities of any organism in the universe. now everyone on the battlefield is an organism in the universe, so they are all susceptible to his abilities.

2) the red partly exists inside of Buddy, so if he's in the Marvel Universe, the red exists there.

3) your forgetting that the moondragon is a very powerful TK, so she could easily crush his lungs, or split his stomach or pull out his eyes or something while protecting herself in a force-field

4) Monica can also use her abilities in human form, and they are just as powerful as regular. also, if she feels someone try and disperse her, which has never happened, she can just shift to human form, which happens as stated in canon, in less than a second.

5) Moonstone is outclassed against Crystal. Crytsal can manipulate molecules, so she could possibly affect her phased form, she has force-fields, and she can also manipulate gravity, to name a few of her abilities. also, it's very doubtful that molecule man can stop this attack when all it takes is a second to be affective

http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crys57mf.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crys83wf.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crys92mq.jpg


http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crys38hm.jpg

6) crystal can also manipulate metal, so what's to stop her from messing with the cyborg parts of your Supes? she can easily take him out with some assistance from an animal man or geo-force.

7) so once again, your team has no telepathic defenses, so Moondragon takes control over Binary, Jade, and Moonstone and we all dog-pile Molecule man. plus the fact that all the animal men elft standing also have telepathing, and moonstone has telepathic power left to spare, so he will be getting major tp attacks going at him.

8) you haven't explained how your going to retrieve the artifact. it's hidden in the very walls of the hellicarier, you've just explained how to beat my team, but the rules are to win you hnave to retrieve the artifact.

[Mike Smash!]

Animal Man's powers are being abused.And not only that, he's using like fifty powers at once. Not even Black Alice can do all of this. Especially simultaneously.

Even if we're going to allow him to basically become Amazo with no limits, to have him use this many powers at once makes him really unbalanced. I mean, stealing Molecule Man's powers?

[rondre sleazde]

Miolecule Man is not and animal. He is a human and Animal cna't dupe his powers. This is a little too much.

[Mike Smash!]

I know that Grant Morrison opened up Animal Man's powers during his run, but they are not limitless, nor am I cool with him stealing the powers of five characters at once and using them.

[Mike Smash!]

Buddy's powers according to Wikipedia:


Buddy can mimic any abilities of any animal as a result of his encounter with a crashed alien spacecraft. He does this by either focusing on a specific animal near him, or, as he learned later, by drawing power from the animal kingdom in general (this enables him to even mimic animals that are extinct). The nature of these powers has been described in various ways, including the superficial "alien radiation" explanation of his early appearances, the reconstruction of his body by aliens with "morphogenetic grafts" at the cellular level, and currently, mystical access to a "morphogenetic field" created by all living creatures, also known as "the Red". He does not grow wings to fly as a bird (instead he flies in classic "Superman style"), nor does he form gills to breathe underwater when mimicking a fish, but he has occasionally been known to mimic the actual appearances of animals, such as adopting the claws of a wolverine temporarily, or his metamorphosis toward the end of Delano's run on his series.

Among the "animal powers" Buddy has been known to use are:

The strength of a Tyrannosaurus Rex.
The flight of a bird.
The swimming ability of a fish.
The speed of an ant.
The wall-crawling of a spider.
The sonic blast of a pistol shrimp.
The sense of smell of a moth.
The stench of a skunk.
The color changing of a chameleon.
The agility of a snake.
The electricity of an electric eel.
A worm's ability to re-grow lost body parts.
The reproduction abilities of protozoa.
The durability of a cockroach.
The level of Buddy's abilities are proportional to the size of the animal they are drawn from. Hence, drawing the jumping ability from a flea would allow him to cover great distances. However, taking the abilities of a larger animal does not result in diminished power for him. In some appearances, he can also talk to animals and enter their minds.

Tapping into the Red, Animal Man can also fire blasts of force or unidentified energy. He can even use the primordial energies to start a new universe.

In 52, Buddy experiences an upgrade that allows him to connect to the Universe's morphogenetic field, providing him unlimited access to all animals in the universe regardless of origin.

Considering his ability to connect to Suneaters, he is now one of DC's most powerful heroes.

[element13]

Miolecule Man is not and animal. He is a human and Animal cna't dupe his powers. This is a little too much.

um....in case you didn't know...humans are animals...and this is only a back-up plan, duplicating molecule mans powers were only a back-up plan, I never said it was definite, and if I did...I apologize, i didn't mean to write that

[Mike Smash!]

um....in case you didn't know...humans are animals...and this is only a back-up plan, duplicating molecule mans powers were only a back-up plan, I never said it was definite, and if I did...I apologize, i didn't mean to write thatBut Molecule Man's powers aren't exactly "the powers of a human being".

Nothing on the Wikipedia article seems to imply that he can turn into Superman by act of will.

[Jared H.]

1) the Red consists of any orgamism that has ever touched the earth, and in 52, Buddy got an upgrade where he could take the abilities of any organism in the universe. now everyone on the battlefield is an organism in the universe, so they are all susceptible to his abilities.

Not provn. His upgrades allowed him to reach out past the morphic field he was in and access the powers of an alien animal: a suneater. No evidence he an do it to other superhumans .



2) the red partly exists inside of Buddy, so if he's in the Marvel Universe, the red exists there.

Wrongo. Buddy states in "Day of Vengeance" that he is powerless because he can't access the Red.



3) your forgetting that the moondragon is a very powerful TK, so she could easily crush his lungs, or split his stomach or pull out his eyes or something while protecting herself in a force-field


Who? Eradicator? In Fortres-mode? Speedblitzing her? While providing psychic defense for her team? I doubt it.



4) Monica can also use her abilities in human form, and they are just as powerful as regular. also, if she feels someone try and disperse her, which has never happened, she can just shift to human form, which happens as stated in canon, in less than a second.

Except that your strat specifially states that she attacks Jade in energy form. You can't go "oops, my bad, I retract that" with a move in your start after the match is underway.


5) Moonstone is outclassed against Crystal. Crytsal can manipulate molecules, so she could possibly affect her phased form, she has force-fields, and she can also manipulate gravity, to name a few of her abilities. also, it's very doubtful that molecule man can stop this attack when all it takes is a second to be affective


1) Show me an instance where Crystal used her abilities on someone phasing.
2) Just a second to occur? Behind Jade's forcefield, 100 yards away, with Molcule Man there to counter and Crystal under assault? Really?




6) crystal can also manipulate metal, so what's to stop her from messing with the cyborg parts of your Supes? she can easily take him out with some assistance from an animal man or geo-force.

Hank Henshaw can technomorph his own body far faster and more effectively than Crystal can. He once remotely controlled Steel's armor. Not to mention that he's an energy being by nature, and his metal parts are of alien origin.



7) so once again, your team has no telepathic defenses, so Moondragon takes control over Binary, Jade, and Moonstone and we all dog-pile Molecule man. plus the fact that all the animal men elft standing also have telepathing, and moonstone has telepathic power left to spare, so he will be getting major tp attacks going at him.

Not gonna even bother with this one.


8) you haven't explained how your going to retrieve the artifact. it's hidden in the very walls of the hellicarier, you've just explained how to beat my team, but the rules are to win you hnave to retrieve the artifact.

As Dipset explained earlier in the League, I don't need to get the artifact until after you're beaten. It's a story affectation, nothing more.

[Jared H.]

um....in case you didn't know...humans are animals...and this is only a back-up plan, duplicating molecule mans powers were only a back-up plan, I never said it was definite, and if I did...I apologize, i didn't mean to write that

But Buddy has not been shown to be able to duplicate the abilities of a superhuman(B'wana Beast aside, when I explained earlier). Conjecture on your part does not a sound strategy make. You need actual feats.

[Mike Smash!]

But Buddy has not been shown to be able to duplicate the abilities of a superhuman(B'wana Beast aside, when I explained earlier). Conjecture on your part does not a sound strategy make. You need actual feats.Plus, with B'wana Beast and Grodd, you can make a much better case of a connection to the Red, but Animal Man is not Amazo.

[Jared H.]

Also, Buddy's abilities only inherit the standard traits of a member of the animal kingdom. So even if he were to absorb the traits of a Kryptonian(and there's no evidence that he can), he would still require extensive time under a yellow sun to develop their superpowered traits.

[Jared H.]

Plus, with B'wana Beast and Grodd, you can make a much better case of a connection to the Red, but Animal Man is not Amazo.

My thoughts exactly.

[Lex]

Also, Buddy's abilities only inherit the standard traits of a member of the animal kingdom. So even if he were to absorb the traits of a Kryptonian(and there's no evidence that he can), he would still require extensive time under a yellow sun to develop their superpowered traits.
But by that token, Buddy can absorb the natural abilities of a Martian, which doesn't require any yellow sun to power.

[Jared H.]

But by that token, Buddy can absorb the natural abilities of a Martian, which doesn't require any yellow sun to power.

Please note the bolded part below:


Also, Buddy's abilities only inherit the standard traits of a member of the animal kingdom. So even if he were to absorb the traits of a Kryptonian(and there's no evidence that he can), he would still require extensive time under a yellow sun to develop their superpowered traits.

[Jessica Drew]

Buddy's power boost in 52 came years after the JLAvengers mini, so said power boost does not apply in this tournament. No alien animals allowed (and all that jazz).

[Mike Smash!]

Buddy's power boost in 52 came years after the JLAvengers mini, so said power boost does not apply in this tournament. No alien animals allowed (and all that jazz).For the purposes of the rest of the game, how do we define the beings that Buddy can mimic?

Just non-sentient Earth based animals and beings connected to the Red?

[Mike Smash!]

I have to say that my biggest disappointment has been that Hot Rod hasn't transformed yet in a battle. :)

[element13]

Buddy's power boost in 52 came years after the JLAvengers mini, so said power boost does not apply in this tournament. No alien animals allowed (and all that jazz).

Buddy came after as a suprise, and wasn't in the Avengers/JLA Mini, so we get the current Buddy.


****I would like to apologize to everyone for my lack of debating and trying to get past buddy's parameters. I sent Sean the wrong stragety and just realized it. I had a much better one planned. anyway, my Fiance and I just got back from our peace core trip to Africa and South America, and I caught a "foreign Bug" as the doctors have coined it. all day for the past 2 1/2 days, I have been puking out of my mouth, and the other end, if you know what I mean. anyway, I didn't mean for all this to happen, and I admit, I was abusing Animal Man...I just wanted to see how far I could Push it. Once again, I apologize for all this mess...and I would ask you to please Vote for Jared...he clearly won this round.

[ragnarok_2012]

Buddy came after as a suprise, and wasn't in the Avengers/JLA Mini, so we get the current Buddy.


****I would like to apologize to everyone for my lack of debating and trying to get past buddy's parameters. I sent Sean the wrong stragety and just realized it. I had a much better one planned. anyway, my Fiance and I just got back from our peace core trip to Africa and South America, and I caught a "foreign Bug" as the doctors have coined it. all day for the past 2 1/2 days, I have been puking out of my mouth, and the other end, if you know what I mean. anyway, I didn't mean for all this to happen, and I admit, I was abusing Animal Man...I just wanted to see how far I could Push it. Once again, I apologize for all this mess...and I would ask you to please Vote for Jared...he clearly won this round.

Just wanted to say: Get well soon, element13!

[Jessica Drew]

Same here, buddy. You're right about Animal Man being added later, a fact I'd forgotten. Sorry 'bout that.

[Jared H.]

Buddy came after as a suprise, and wasn't in the Avengers/JLA Mini, so we get the current Buddy.


****I would like to apologize to everyone for my lack of debating and trying to get past buddy's parameters. I sent Sean the wrong stragety and just realized it. I had a much better one planned. anyway, my Fiance and I just got back from our peace core trip to Africa and South America, and I caught a "foreign Bug" as the doctors have coined it. all day for the past 2 1/2 days, I have been puking out of my mouth, and the other end, if you know what I mean. anyway, I didn't mean for all this to happen, and I admit, I was abusing Animal Man...I just wanted to see how far I could Push it. Once again, I apologize for all this mess...and I would ask you to please Vote for Jared...he clearly won this round.

Get well soon element13. Hopefully we'll have a rematch down the line, where we can both put our absolute best foot forward.