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View Full Version : Any word on when the new ASOIAF book will be out?



GammaPro
07-01-2007, 05:54 PM
I could have sworn Martin said it would be almost immediately after the last, that they just released it like that because it would be too large.

Saruman
07-01-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm only on book 2 but I find this series really hit and miss. A Game of Thrones was pretty boring up until the last few hundred pages. A Clash of Kings is pretty boring right now as well and I'm almost at page 200.

Armless Penguin
07-01-2007, 07:01 PM
Martin's not even finished writing it.

He tends to regularly give updates on his blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/), though, so if you hang around there long enough you'll eventually find out.

GammaPro
07-01-2007, 08:28 PM
Martin's not even finished writing it.

He tends to regularly give updates on his blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/), though, so if you hang around there long enough you'll eventually find out.

He's not? I could swear he promised it would follow really shortly on the heels of his last one. When Jordan's books started taking so long, he pissed alot of people off.

Expletive Deleted
07-01-2007, 08:52 PM
Oh, he did promise that. He claimed that splitting off FEAST FOR CROWS gave him a half-book head start on the next volume.

He just hasn't, y'know, finished it yet.

Inkthinker
07-01-2007, 09:39 PM
Just thinking about this today, as it happens... my girlfriend is about halfway through A Clash of Kings, and I gotta keep checking myself to avoid any spoilers for her. She gets attached to characters, and I keep cacklin' about that, 'cause Martin is ruthless.

I don't find the books boring at all, but not everyone is into the sociopolitical thriller elements. Cheer up, though, there's plenty of blood to be spilt by the end of the fourth book.

I try to be zen about the next one's arrival... it'll happen when it happens. Can't every author be as steady as Terry Pratchett or Jim Butcher.

Roquefort Raider
07-02-2007, 11:31 AM
Martin's blog says that he won't put up any more updates until the book is done.

You're right, GammaPro: a few years ago, Martin wrote that a feast for crows was so big that it had to be split in two, and that because of that a dance with dragons would certainly be out shortly after the first book. We know how that turned out.

Now I, for one, am just happy about how good the first three books of the series were and I don't expect Martin to provide me with the following installments before he feels like it. Yes, I'd love to read more of this fascinating story, but it's not that important... and certainly not enough to tell a writer what he ought to do with his time.

On the other hand, we're talking about a pop fantasy series here; we're not talking Shakespeare. I could buy the argument that "quality takes time", but I found "a feast for crows" so remarkably boring that I'm not sure it applies here. In all honesty, I'm a bit worried that Martin has started losing interest in his own creation and just has other occupations to occupy his time.

It may be a while yet before we see a dance with dragons, and even more before the series ends.

Inkthinker
07-02-2007, 11:35 AM
I think the level of "boring" that people associate with AFFC is directly proportionate to how much they like the characters it involved.

See, I like Brienne of Tarth. I like Arya. I like Sam, even if he is a putz, and I like Jaime, god help me. I'm interested in what's happening with the southern kingdoms. So I didn't find AFFC boring at all.

Sure, I'm disappointed in the distinct lack of Tyrion or Jon, and to a somewhat lesser degree Dany, but I know that's on the way, so in the meantime I eat up what I got.

Boring was a book like Crossroads of Twilight, 1000 pages of no significant plot development until the last hundred or so. At least in AFFC, things happened. Perhaps not to the character we care most about, but they were significant plot elements nonetheless. Characters changed, plot progressed, and the ending of the book leaves us in a place different from the beginning. That (to me) is a good book.

Roquefort Raider
07-02-2007, 12:02 PM
I think the level of "boring" that people associate with AFFC is directly proportionate to how much they like the characters it involved.

That would stand to reason, but I happen to like Arya and Brienne. In fact, I also liked most of the characters introduced in the first three books and trust Marting to write interestingly about anything, if he has a mind to it. I, too, would have preferred to see Dany and Tyrion and Jon but did not miss them that badly; after all, it's not uncommon for aSoIaF characters to go missing for long stretches (such as that scumbag we love to hate, Theon Greyjoy).

But did things really happen in AFFC?

Brienne went on a quest to find Arya, chased many red herrings, and met a monk with a dog.

Cersei took control of the kingdom and made a mess of things. Big surprise there.

Her brother reverted to being a prick.

Littlefingers set up Sansa to suit his political agenda.

Arya managed to find the Faceless men and started her training.

Oh, and some interesting things were hinted at, such as the idea that the dragons' disappearance may not have been an accident and that Dany's escape to the eastern kingdoms may have been engineered by people in the south.

But that could have been told in three to five chapters, and did not need to be extended so tediously. What I most vividly remember from A game of thrones, A clash of kings and A storm of swords is how I'd stay up late at night because I just HAD to know what was coming next; in the case of A feast for crows, the matter of whether Brienne would have bacon for breakfast was not exactly that thrilling. As far as I'm concerned, of course.

GammaPro
07-02-2007, 04:55 PM
Somehow, I knew Jordan would get shit on in the midst of someone's defense of Martin.

Shellhead
07-03-2007, 09:28 AM
That would stand to reason, but I happen to like Arya and Brienne. In fact, I also liked most of the characters introduced in the first three books and trust Marting to write interestingly about anything, if he has a mind to it. I, too, would have preferred to see Dany and Tyrion and Jon but did not miss them that badly; after all, it's not uncommon for aSoIaF characters to go missing for long stretches (such as that scumbag we love to hate, Theon Greyjoy).

But did things really happen in AFFC?

Brienne went on a quest to find Arya, chased many red herrings, and met a monk with a dog.

Cersei took control of the kingdom and made a mess of things. Big surprise there.

Her brother reverted to being a prick.

Littlefingers set up Sansa to suit his political agenda.

Arya managed to find the Faceless men and started her training.

Oh, and some interesting things were hinted at, such as the idea that the dragons' disappearance may not have been an accident and that Dany's escape to the eastern kingdoms may have been engineered by people in the south.

But that could have been told in three to five chapters, and did not need to be extended so tediously. What I most vividly remember from A game of thrones, A clash of kings and A storm of swords is how I'd stay up late at night because I just HAD to know what was coming next; in the case of A feast for crows, the matter of whether Brienne would have bacon for breakfast was not exactly that thrilling. As far as I'm concerned, of course.

I think you skimmed AFFC a little too quickly.

What happened to Brienne was devastating, a real turning point in her life. If she survives the experience, she may be changed forever. And I'm not talking about her looks.

Cersei's poor conduct at King's Landing may not have been surprising, but it had a major impact on the kingdom. Understanding what she did and why she did it is important to the overall story. I predict that religious crusade is going to cause lots of problems in the southern half of Westeros. I like the way it seemed to Cersei to be a relatively minor decision amidst all of her other scheming, but it brought about the end of her plans. Some of her other activities are likely to lead to some interesting results later on.

I dispute your characterization of Jaime. His actions in AFFC looked more like atonement to me, as he travelled through the lands devastated by the Lannisters and Starks and addressed various problems left behind.

Given the unusual powers that the Faceless Men seem to possess, it's interesting to watch Arya go through their training program. It seems to involve stripping away one's sense of identity, which will be quite a challenge for someone as willful as Arya.

Reducing each of these storylines to a chapter might have moved things along briskly, but this series is about more than a sequence of events. The characters at the heart of this epic are much more nuanced and lifelike than what we normally get in genre fiction, and it pays off in terms of emotional impact when they are threatened or even killed. And there is very real character development at work with some of these folks. It isn't always flashy or exciting, but many readers are finding it interesting.

Expletive Deleted
07-03-2007, 09:47 AM
I think you skimmed AFFC a little too quickly.I don't think he did. While there was some good character development, there was also a ton of filler.

For instance . . . Brienne reached a turning point, sure, but she took her sweet time getting there. Several of her side trips could've been condensed or eliminated without adversely affecting her overall story arc.

Shellhead
07-03-2007, 10:01 AM
I don't think he did. While there was some good character development, there was also a ton of filler.

For instance . . . Brienne reached a turning point, sure, but she took her sweet time getting there. Several of her side trips could've been condensed or eliminated without adversely affecting her overall story arc.

Okay, I concede that point. I enjoyed those scenes for showing the aftermath of fighting across a populous section of Westeros, but I can see where the details may have been tedious to some readers.

Gordon Smith
07-03-2007, 10:10 AM
Okay, I concede that point. I enjoyed those scenes for showing the aftermath of fighting across a populous section of Westeros, but I can see where the details may have been tedious to some readers.

A Feast of Crows was a bit tedious and dragged on, although there were many bits and pieces that I liked a great deal (Arya's training, for example).

Roquefort Raider
07-04-2007, 03:38 AM
For instance . . . Brienne reached a turning point, sure, but she took her sweet time getting there. Several of her side trips could've been condensed or eliminated without adversely affecting her overall story arc.

Precisely.

I'm glad part of aSoIaF readership enjoyed A feast for crows, but to me it felt like 75% filler padding whatever actual story we got. It could have been cut down to a 250-page novel (or better yet, as far as I'm concerned, it could have been made into the novel that Martin had initially conceived of before it was split in two).

Inkthinker
07-04-2007, 12:09 PM
I take most of the chapters to be about character development over plot development.

Even if the development is (as in the case of Cersei) that they only fall deeper into their own pit of crap.

Some of Brienne's journey might be trimmed, but I figure if it's not about her character or the immediate plot of her quest, then it serves to illustrate the falling state of Westeros.

Joshua Pantalleresco
07-04-2007, 05:16 PM
I actually enjoyed Feast. It felt a bit like a set up novel in truth. The other major problem is that my favorite characters aren't in it. But I loved Cersei, and think Samwell and Jaime are well developed. A bit slower than the previous three, but I thought myself that it was a calm before the storm. Book six will be a huge freaking battle. I can see that already.

JP

Dr Objection
07-14-2007, 05:05 AM
I liked AFFC. It was obviously the weakest novel so far in terms of story development and action, but the strongest in terms of delving into the history of Westeros. We get some crazy ass history all up in there.

Also I thought the Dornish and Ironmen chapters were a superb addition.The Ironborn all seem to be insane and their chapters were really intense. I thought the Kingsmoot was fun and Victarion fighting on the ships was badass.

The Dornish stuff was wicked too. Arianne is a hot little slut. And Doran revealing his real motives at the end was superb and gave us one of the best lines of the series.

As for the other characters.. I don't like Brienne or Sam and their chapters tended to drag. Through Brienne's quest, though, we did find a lot more about the various parts of Westeros and the history behind them, which was cool. The only really interesting things about Sam's chapters were Maester Aemon, however I am looking forward to reading Sam's future chapters as Oldtown looks to be at boiling point and will be a key place in future.

I always like Arya and Sansa's stuff, they are pretty good characters. Arya the nine year old bloodthirsty killer fascinates me. Through Sansa we get to see LITTLEFINGER who is a genius and possibly my favourite character.

Jaime is another one of my favourite characters. He is just so complex, there is so much depth there behind his reasoning etc. He fucks his sister - bad, however there does seem to be a genuinely deep love and affection there between them (at least until recently). He killed the King he was sworn to protect - bad. However I agree with his actions. Aerys was gonna destroy an entire city. What Jaime did was heroic if you ask me - he did it at the cost of his own personal honour, which is now ruined for all time. He's also a funny fucker.

Cersei's stuff was great too. I like that she is an insane bitch. Her logic is so warped and twisted and you just knew all her plotting was going to explode in her face.

Having said that I do think the next book will be better. Tyrion and Dany are missed immensely, and the situation in the North is great. I mean seriously, there's the Night Watch, Stannis and Mel, the Wildings, Bolton and his men, the Ironborn, Howland Reed & co, and Stark loyalists. And maybe a dragon flying around somewhere...? I can't wait to see what's going on up there.

Dr Objection
07-14-2007, 05:10 AM
I actually enjoyed Feast. It felt a bit like a set up novel in truth. The other major problem is that my favorite characters aren't in it. But I loved Cersei, and think Samwell and Jaime are well developed. A bit slower than the previous three, but I thought myself that it was a calm before the storm. Book six will be a huge freaking battle. I can see that already.

JP

Yeah dude the Battle of Slaver Bay I reckon. Dany, the Unsullied, whatever help Illyrio brings and Dany's dragons vs Qarth, Astapor, Yunkai and the warlocks.

Looks pretty bad for Dany but there's also intangibles like Tyrion, the Ironmen, Quentyn Martell, Marwyn and the Golden Company. I suspect a seige in Meereen, with the Golden Company and Victarion coming to Dany's aid to save the day.

Valmore
07-23-2007, 07:32 PM
I think the level of "boring" that people associate with AFFC is directly proportionate to how much they like the characters it involved.

I agree wholeheartedly. The chapters I find most boring are the ones that involve characters I can't get into. For instance, I find Dany's chapters almost insufferably boring, but I have to read them to make sure I have all the plot. It feels like a chore, though.

However, every Tyrion chapter I read is pure gold.

I find I enjoy most of the characters to some degree.

Except Dany.

Shellhead
07-24-2007, 08:41 AM
I wonder how Martin is going to wrap up this series in just three more books.

I'm assuming that Dany and her horde abandon her city-state by the end of the next book, but that leaves only two more books for her forces to invade Westeros. I'm guessing that she and Jon Snow will become either lovers or bitter enemies, but there is a lot of real estate to cover before they come anywhere near each other. There are still big unanswered questions about the Others and the greenfolk in the north, plus favorite characters like Arya and Tyrion to deal with. And there are the new stories developing, involving the religious zealots in Kings Landing and the scholarly intrigue at Oldtown.

Martin will need to pick up the pace, or else this series may go 8 books or more. That wouldn't be so bad, except that I am worried about his ability to finish this series. Martin is a terrific writer, but most of his work has been standalone novels, short stories, novellas or screenplays. He first started writing about Dany about in the mid-80s, winning a Hugo award for best novella for "The Blood of the Dragon", which later became the Dany chapters of "A Game of Thrones." Twenty years later, and we have less than 2/3 of the series in print, and Martin turns 59 this September.

Expletive Deleted
07-28-2007, 05:41 PM
From Pat's Fantasy Hotlist (http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/)


I couldn't leave Anne's office without inquiring about the progress of GRRM's A Dance with Dragons. Sadly, what I have to report will not please anyone, so be forewarned. What it comes down to is this: Unless a miracle occurs, there is no way the next ASOIAF volume will be released this year. The folks at Bantam are hoping to get the finished manuscript at some point this fall. But if Anne's facial expression is any indication, they're not holding their breath. Which means that, at the earliest, we are looking at a spring 2008 pub date.

Many fans have been wondering why it should take this long for the author to write this new book, what with 50% of it having been completed already. Rumors have been circulating that GRRM did scrap some portions of what he had when they decided to publish AFfC in its current format. Well, unfortunately that's not hearsay. It appears that GRRM did cut some chunks out of the original manuscript and has been tinkering with a few things. Hence, he didn't truly have 50% of it done with and ready to go. Which explains the slower than expected progress for A Dance with Dragons.

The good thing is that Bantam are pretty flexible and there's no rigid timetable as to when the book should be published. According to Anne, the editorial process will begin as soon as the manuscript reaches her office. As was the case with Robert Jordan with the WoT volumes between A Crown of Swords and Crossroads of Twilight, I believe that A Dance with Dragons will be released as soon as possible after the manuscript is turned in. I figure that no one at Bantam wishes to repeat the mistake which came back to haunt them with A Feast for Crows. I'm persuaded that they will make only one announcement pertaining to the publication of ADwD, and that only when they'll know for sure that the production process has begun.

Shellhead
07-30-2007, 09:29 AM
I appreciate the update, but that is damn disappointing. Normally, I'm willing to wait if the result is higher quality. Maybe Martin has made some kind of contingency plan to get this finished... like maybe his old friend and collaborator Melinda Snodgrass will receive his notes and finish the series if Martin dies.

Jmacq1
07-31-2007, 04:54 AM
Let's be fair now, Martin is 59...that's not that old. He's also not suffering from a possibly-terminal illness ala Robert Jordan, to the best of my knowledge.

At the very least, we can probably tone down a wee bit on the "worst case scenario." Particularly given that slow pace or not, he's still gotten four quite lengthy books out in slightly under 10 years (with the fifth likely to hit next year sometime by the above report).

Inkthinker
08-03-2007, 10:46 PM
*shrug*

I've decided to be ultimately zen about it. It'll happen when it happens, and I might as well rant against the rain as rant about Martin's timeliness.

Let's face it, we know he works at his own pace. Not every author can be like Pratchett or Butcher, dependably churning out a sweet, sweet literary nugget once a year like clockwork (new Discworld in October, new Dresden in April 08). I love Martin's books, but he's definitely categorized in my mind as a "whenever he gets to it" author.

Roquefort Raider
08-04-2007, 10:59 AM
*shrug*

I've decided to be ultimately zen about it. It'll happen when it happens, and I might as well rant against the rain as rant about Martin's timeliness.


That's a very rational attitude to adopt, particularly since this is after all a series we read for fun; if it causes us to develop ulcers then we're on the wrong track.

What worries me the most is that the author may show signs of being bored with this series. He may have developed the backstory so much that he feels strangled by the weight of it, affecting the pace of later installments. I felt the same happen with Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy, which got more and more complex and less and less plot-driven as time went by.

I really hope I'm wrong!

metr0man
08-04-2007, 05:07 PM
one of the reasons I get sick of fantasy series is that i think most of the writers end up self indulgent and in love with their world and characters and just go on and on without meaning. With that in mind, i was very disappointed to learn that Martin's book was just too big that it had to be split in two. le sigh. By the end of the 3rd book, as great as it was, i was already starting to feel "24" fatigue - like the show 24, where sometimes its just one shocking twist too many, to the point where you start to not care nearly as much and just want it to end so you can have a good complete story with meaning. Truly great stories are as much about discipline and what not to put in as much as what you do.

leonaozaki
08-04-2007, 05:26 PM
one of the reasons I get sick of fantasy series is that i think most of the writers end up self indulgent and in love with their world and characters and just go on and on without meaning. With that in mind, i was very disappointed to learn that Martin's book was just too big that it had to be split in two. le sigh. By the end of the 3rd book, as great as it was, i was already starting to feel "24" fatigue - like the show 24, where sometimes its just one shocking twist too many, to the point where you start to not care nearly as much and just want it to end so you can have a good complete story with meaning. Truly great stories are as much about discipline and what not to put in as much as what you do.

I can't stand 24 but I know exactly what you mean about Martin, and it's one of the big reasons why I gave up on the series after A Storm of Swords. How many shocking plot twists can one narrative sustain? Not as many as Martin puts in, for my money.

rob